With Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 coming out, they'll probably want to brand the new XBox in a similar fasion. I can't see them really calling it the 'XBox 8', but I can see them doing something like knocking the 8 on its side and calling it the "XBox-Infinity"...
Define "most people who have weighed in on it"... because I doubt you have any data to back up that statement.
And define "overly difficult to use". What exactly is difficult? Being a jarring or unexpected visual is not "difficult to use". You tap the windows key and type to find things. You tap the windows key and click on an app to start it. You scroll left and right. I'm still trying to fathom what you find "difficult" in any of this.
It's DIFFERENT. And yes, if you try to do things the exact same way on a system that is different, you're going to be frustrated and angry. But that's not a problem with the system, necessarily.
But all the functionality is there, and the vast majority of it is available to you in the same, or fewer, keystrokes and/or clicks. A FEW things are not optimized, and a very FEW things aren't present or require a different strategy with this pre-release, non-final UI. There are also several things you can do now that you couldn't do before.
Any time anything changes, there is always this HUGE outcry. Usually it settles down once people wrap their heads around the changes and realise they're not nearly as horrible as they initially thought they were. If only people were more constructive in their feedback, rather than just "THIS SUCKS I'M NOT USING IT"... everything would be better.
Your interpretation and comprehension is wrong, an dno matter how much you try and insist otherwise, it will remain wrong. You willfully (purposefully?) twisted what was said to fullfil your preconceived prejudices, and continue to do so, over and over. Your grasp of the English language is bizarrely shallow. Strange that everyone else 'got' it, except you. And even when corrrected, you keep insisting your original misinterpretation of the statement (and continuing with subsequent statements) is the only one that can, should, or ever apply.
If you don't want a Windows Live Account (again, you've given zero justification for such a rigid insistence), then you won't get this feature. And you'll be no worse off than before.
If you want this feature, then get a Windows live ID, and stop bitching and whining and moaning over nothing.
I think you have a grossly different (and twisted) definition of the word 'unusable'.
You're also judging the current developer preview as if it were the end release. It was made clear the UI isn't complete.
It's perfectly usable. It's not as efficient and it's more annoying, but that doesn't make it "unusable". So no, I don't think you know what the hell you're talking about.
You love just beating to death how you completely misinterpreted the original statement, don't you? You want to make sure everyone is absolutely aware of just how much you're not getting it, don't you?
If that were ALL there were, you MIGHT have a point (but only barely). Taken in aggregate with all the changes and additions though, I don't see how you can possibly support your notion that Windows 8 is nothing more than a "service pack". Kernel enhnacements, boot enhancements, file system enhancements, UI enhancements, plus the whole Metro/WinRT/Touch stuff, roaming profiles, cloud storage and access integration, and on and on... certainly sounds like a major version update to me.
And since a live id is just an email address... not sure why you wouldn't want one. But hey, if you choose not to have one, no problem. You'll just give up the feature that allows you to store your profile in the cloud and log in with the same ID on multiple PCs.... and you're no worse off than you are now.
But seriously, it's not like it's difficult to sign up for one. Or costly. Or... anything. But if you want Microsofts consumer "Cloud" services, just sign up. Takes a few seconds.
If you don't want Amazon.com's cloud services, don't sign up for those either. Or Apple's. Or Google's.
I don't think you understand the roaming profiles and single sign-on features.
Log in with your windows live ID, and you pull your stuff from the cloud. So you can log on to your parent's machine and have all YOUR stuff there. Or bring it with you on a USB Key. Basically it de-couples your experience from the specific hardware. And some level of this stuff was available previously, but it usually required a Domain Controller and IT Department to set up. This is for consumers, made easy and made central... not just something you can sorta kinda do if you're motivated enough.
Well, there's also the whole "Roaming profiles" thing throug the cloud, the "Windows Live ID" sign-on that enables it, the ability to keep your profile on a USB Key... allowing your Windows experience to be independent of the actual physical hardware you log into... That's big.
The inclusion of Hyper-V is also interesting, as is Native support for ISOs and VHDs. The ability to reset/reinstall windows with a click, without losing your data... "refresh". Improved shadow-copy and backup/restore.
There's lots of stuff in there that, taken together, makes for a good Windows 8 improvement, irrespective of the additional tablet and Metro functionality.
As it seems to me it will be harder to port an application written for Metro to win32 than it is porting an iOS application to OS X.
I think in reality most porting attempts will go the OTHER way.
And Windows 8 actually pushes devices to use higher than 1378x720 (in order to get the dual-docking Metro apps feature).
For the record, my Win7 laptop has a 15.4" screen that is 1920x1080... same resolution as that on my 23" desktop monitor.
My interest in Microsoft's plans are more along the line of "how easy will it be to write a single app that runs on Windows Phone 8, Windows 8, and XBox v.Next?" That'll be interesting to watch play out.
I'll agree that it's jarring right now. But if you actually take the time to get used to it, it's not that bad. But there are still some significant issues I have with it, that I hope get addressed in the Beta (or before GA at any rate).
I think it says a lot that you wasted the time to configure your XP start menu to look like 95's. That's just... I dunno. Weird.
I used to spend a lot of time micro-managing the start menu in XP. It was a pain, but I could get it the way I wanted. In Win7 I was initially put of that you couldn't do this any more... but after using it, I realized I didn't need to any more.
The Start Screen is much like that. It's different. I have some muscle-memory that is having difficulty adjusting to a few things. I've had to "re-think" a few of the ways I used to do things, but with a few exeptions, most things are better now.
He was relating all the "crying wolf" over the change (and the non-issue it was on release) to your "crying wolf" over the start screen. The point he's making is that you were wrong then, so there's certainly no guarentee you're right now.
He wasn't drawing conclusions about the quality of UX of Windows 8 from that of Office 2007. He was drawing conclusions about the reactions of a major paradigm shift in UI (from Win7 to Win8, like that of Office 2003 to Office 2007).
My English is fine. Yours clearly needs work on the whole reading-comprehension part.
Untrue. it's perfectly usable. Right now they're missing some mouse gestures (to be added), but there's a ton of keyboard support, and MOST things you could do with the start menu you can do with the start screen (plus many other things in addition).
The expereince is "visually jarring" right now, true. But that doesnt' mean "unusable". It means it takes some getting used to.
There are a few tasks that take more steps than "the old way" and I'm sure those will be refined. But the claim that it's Unusable" is just rubbish, and clearly untrue.
Okay, you're just not very good at following obvious Enlgish sentences then. Because You keep saying things that make no sense.
First, the other poster made a perfectly clear statement of comparison, which you then bizarrely twisted in weird ways that made no sense... and then claimed to be lost.
Then you make a statement that I somehow think what that poster said is true and that that "speaks volumes", when all I did was point out to you the very obvious thing that person was saying (making no judgements otherwise) and questioning how you could misunderstand something so simple and clear.
It's clear you have an agenda to push, and you're twisting everything around to serve that agenda, and aren't really interested in actual communication.
Windows 8 offers you roaming profiles, single-signon, profiles on a USB-key, dramatically faster boot times and resume times, lower power useage, higher security, better modern device support (USB 3.x, very large drives)...
Metro as a UI offers tablet users a better touch-friendly experience, as well as a "unified' UI look and feel across Microsoft Phones, Tablets, Desktops, and XBox.
Anything you can do in Win7, you will continue to be able to do in Win8.
Win8 will also enable usable Tablet form-factors.
The Metro apps shipped with the current Win8 developer preview are just little "demo" apps, written by MS Interns over a weekend. They do not show the full range of capabilities of Metro apps. Over time, you can imagine all of MS Office, and a ton of games, will be offered as metro style apps. So you'll have more than just "weather" and "stock" apps, if that's what you're concerned about. And Metro apps are sandboxed in a way that makes them very secure.
Windows 8 is offering a lot, but I think most people are getting completely distracted by the Start Screen, an unfinished UI, and a hand-full of simple "demo" apps... it'll be more obvious I think once the beta is released. Then we'll have a better handle on the strengths and weaknesses.
You might want to adjust your tin-hat. Not everyone who has experiences different than yours is some sort of hired hit-man out to try and mislead people or "shape opinion". There's no astroturf here, and no need for so much tin-foil on your part.
He's simply showing that these same things were said about Office 2007, and turned out not to be true, so all these same hysterical rantings of doom and gloom are likely to not be true about Windows 8 as well (using history as a guide).
But it basically has the same UI as Win7 with the exception of the start menu becoming the start screen. And the Start Screen is perfectly usable in the Metro world. Most of the concern is about the jarring switch between start-screen and desktop, along with mouse/keyboard usability.
However, for most scenarios, the new system already works as well as the old, and in those areas it doesn't, I'm sure work is being done to address those issues. I'll reserve judgement on that until the beta is released (I know there's already been some updates due to developer feedback already, but other aspects have more to do with retraining muscle-memory than being "bad").
Never mind that over time (or especially on tablets), most apps will be available in Metro versions and you won't have to "switch back and forth" between two expereinces. And "Desktop only" users will likely have a way to work where the start-screen doesn't interrupt them and they don't have to look at Metro screens if they dont' want to.
So I reject your claim that Windows 8 doesn't have a nicely usable UI. It seems false just on the face of it.
You can see and experience all those things I listed today in the existing developer preview. The Beta will be out in a few months with a more polished UI on top of the improved guts and plumbing. I'm simply reserving judgement on UI aspects at this point, but the underpinnings seem pretty solid, with some pretty dramatic improvements over Windows 7 in there.
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With Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 coming out, they'll probably want to brand the new XBox in a similar fasion. I can't see them really calling it the 'XBox 8', but I can see them doing something like knocking the 8 on its side and calling it the "XBox-Infinity"...
The next XBox will have an optical disc drive that can read DVDs if only for backwards compatability with the huge library of XBox 360 games.
Define "most people who have weighed in on it"... because I doubt you have any data to back up that statement.
And define "overly difficult to use". What exactly is difficult? Being a jarring or unexpected visual is not "difficult to use". You tap the windows key and type to find things. You tap the windows key and click on an app to start it. You scroll left and right. I'm still trying to fathom what you find "difficult" in any of this.
It's DIFFERENT. And yes, if you try to do things the exact same way on a system that is different, you're going to be frustrated and angry. But that's not a problem with the system, necessarily.
But all the functionality is there, and the vast majority of it is available to you in the same, or fewer, keystrokes and/or clicks. A FEW things are not optimized, and a very FEW things aren't present or require a different strategy with this pre-release, non-final UI. There are also several things you can do now that you couldn't do before.
Any time anything changes, there is always this HUGE outcry. Usually it settles down once people wrap their heads around the changes and realise they're not nearly as horrible as they initially thought they were. If only people were more constructive in their feedback, rather than just "THIS SUCKS I'M NOT USING IT"... everything would be better.
Your interpretation and comprehension is wrong, an dno matter how much you try and insist otherwise, it will remain wrong. You willfully (purposefully?) twisted what was said to fullfil your preconceived prejudices, and continue to do so, over and over. Your grasp of the English language is bizarrely shallow. Strange that everyone else 'got' it, except you. And even when corrrected, you keep insisting your original misinterpretation of the statement (and continuing with subsequent statements) is the only one that can, should, or ever apply.
You're. Just. Not. Getting. It.
So just let it go.
If you don't want a Windows Live Account (again, you've given zero justification for such a rigid insistence), then you won't get this feature. And you'll be no worse off than before.
If you want this feature, then get a Windows live ID, and stop bitching and whining and moaning over nothing.
I think you have a grossly different (and twisted) definition of the word 'unusable'.
You're also judging the current developer preview as if it were the end release. It was made clear the UI isn't complete.
It's perfectly usable. It's not as efficient and it's more annoying, but that doesn't make it "unusable". So no, I don't think you know what the hell you're talking about.
You can use ANY email address.
I used to use a gmail address as my windows live ID.
I switched to a @live.com address so I'd also have integrated hotmail email and contacts, but that's not required by any stretch of the imagination.
You can use a local ISP email address too (POP3).
So short answer: Yes, you can use your google email to log in. You just specify that as your Windows Live ID when you sign up.
You love just beating to death how you completely misinterpreted the original statement, don't you? You want to make sure everyone is absolutely aware of just how much you're not getting it, don't you?
Please stop.
If that were ALL there were, you MIGHT have a point (but only barely). Taken in aggregate with all the changes and additions though, I don't see how you can possibly support your notion that Windows 8 is nothing more than a "service pack". Kernel enhnacements, boot enhancements, file system enhancements, UI enhancements, plus the whole Metro/WinRT/Touch stuff, roaming profiles, cloud storage and access integration, and on and on... certainly sounds like a major version update to me.
It's an optional feature.
And since a live id is just an email address... not sure why you wouldn't want one. But hey, if you choose not to have one, no problem. You'll just give up the feature that allows you to store your profile in the cloud and log in with the same ID on multiple PCs.... and you're no worse off than you are now.
But seriously, it's not like it's difficult to sign up for one. Or costly. Or... anything. But if you want Microsofts consumer "Cloud" services, just sign up. Takes a few seconds.
If you don't want Amazon.com's cloud services, don't sign up for those either. Or Apple's. Or Google's.
I'm not sure what your issue is.
I don't think you understand the roaming profiles and single sign-on features.
Log in with your windows live ID, and you pull your stuff from the cloud. So you can log on to your parent's machine and have all YOUR stuff there. Or bring it with you on a USB Key. Basically it de-couples your experience from the specific hardware. And some level of this stuff was available previously, but it usually required a Domain Controller and IT Department to set up. This is for consumers, made easy and made central ... not just something you can sorta kinda do if you're motivated enough.
Well, there's also the whole "Roaming profiles" thing throug the cloud, the "Windows Live ID" sign-on that enables it, the ability to keep your profile on a USB Key... allowing your Windows experience to be independent of the actual physical hardware you log into... That's big.
The inclusion of Hyper-V is also interesting, as is Native support for ISOs and VHDs. The ability to reset/reinstall windows with a click, without losing your data... "refresh". Improved shadow-copy and backup/restore.
There's lots of stuff in there that, taken together, makes for a good Windows 8 improvement, irrespective of the additional tablet and Metro functionality.
As it seems to me it will be harder to port an application written for Metro to win32 than it is porting an iOS application to OS X.
I think in reality most porting attempts will go the OTHER way.
And Windows 8 actually pushes devices to use higher than 1378x720 (in order to get the dual-docking Metro apps feature).
For the record, my Win7 laptop has a 15.4" screen that is 1920x1080... same resolution as that on my 23" desktop monitor.
My interest in Microsoft's plans are more along the line of "how easy will it be to write a single app that runs on Windows Phone 8, Windows 8, and XBox v.Next?" That'll be interesting to watch play out.
Well, I'm glad you're so open minded about it.
I'll agree that it's jarring right now. But if you actually take the time to get used to it, it's not that bad. But there are still some significant issues I have with it, that I hope get addressed in the Beta (or before GA at any rate).
I think it says a lot that you wasted the time to configure your XP start menu to look like 95's. That's just... I dunno. Weird.
I used to spend a lot of time micro-managing the start menu in XP. It was a pain, but I could get it the way I wanted. In Win7 I was initially put of that you couldn't do this any more... but after using it, I realized I didn't need to any more.
The Start Screen is much like that. It's different. I have some muscle-memory that is having difficulty adjusting to a few things. I've had to "re-think" a few of the ways I used to do things, but with a few exeptions, most things are better now.
Those are just improvements in one area. And they're not trivial.
There are improvements like this all over the product.
He was relating all the "crying wolf" over the change (and the non-issue it was on release) to your "crying wolf" over the start screen. The point he's making is that you were wrong then, so there's certainly no guarentee you're right now.
You really should go back to class.
The point is, the shoe DOESN'T fit. Duh.
He wasn't drawing conclusions about the quality of UX of Windows 8 from that of Office 2007. He was drawing conclusions about the reactions of a major paradigm shift in UI (from Win7 to Win8, like that of Office 2003 to Office 2007).
My English is fine. Yours clearly needs work on the whole reading-comprehension part.
Untrue. it's perfectly usable. Right now they're missing some mouse gestures (to be added), but there's a ton of keyboard support, and MOST things you could do with the start menu you can do with the start screen (plus many other things in addition).
The expereince is "visually jarring" right now, true. But that doesnt' mean "unusable". It means it takes some getting used to.
There are a few tasks that take more steps than "the old way" and I'm sure those will be refined. But the claim that it's Unusable" is just rubbish, and clearly untrue.
Okay, you're just not very good at following obvious Enlgish sentences then. Because You keep saying things that make no sense.
First, the other poster made a perfectly clear statement of comparison, which you then bizarrely twisted in weird ways that made no sense... and then claimed to be lost.
Then you make a statement that I somehow think what that poster said is true and that that "speaks volumes", when all I did was point out to you the very obvious thing that person was saying (making no judgements otherwise) and questioning how you could misunderstand something so simple and clear.
It's clear you have an agenda to push, and you're twisting everything around to serve that agenda, and aren't really interested in actual communication.
Windows 8 offers you roaming profiles, single-signon, profiles on a USB-key, dramatically faster boot times and resume times, lower power useage, higher security, better modern device support (USB 3.x, very large drives)...
Metro as a UI offers tablet users a better touch-friendly experience, as well as a "unified' UI look and feel across Microsoft Phones, Tablets, Desktops, and XBox.
Anything you can do in Win7, you will continue to be able to do in Win8.
Win8 will also enable usable Tablet form-factors.
The Metro apps shipped with the current Win8 developer preview are just little "demo" apps, written by MS Interns over a weekend. They do not show the full range of capabilities of Metro apps. Over time, you can imagine all of MS Office, and a ton of games, will be offered as metro style apps. So you'll have more than just "weather" and "stock" apps, if that's what you're concerned about. And Metro apps are sandboxed in a way that makes them very secure.
Windows 8 is offering a lot, but I think most people are getting completely distracted by the Start Screen, an unfinished UI, and a hand-full of simple "demo" apps... it'll be more obvious I think once the beta is released. Then we'll have a better handle on the strengths and weaknesses.
You might want to adjust your tin-hat. Not everyone who has experiences different than yours is some sort of hired hit-man out to try and mislead people or "shape opinion". There's no astroturf here, and no need for so much tin-foil on your part.
You get lost easily.
He's simply showing that these same things were said about Office 2007, and turned out not to be true, so all these same hysterical rantings of doom and gloom are likely to not be true about Windows 8 as well (using history as a guide).
Was that really that difficult to follow??
Say's who? The Win8 UI isn't complete yet.
But it basically has the same UI as Win7 with the exception of the start menu becoming the start screen. And the Start Screen is perfectly usable in the Metro world. Most of the concern is about the jarring switch between start-screen and desktop, along with mouse/keyboard usability.
However, for most scenarios, the new system already works as well as the old, and in those areas it doesn't, I'm sure work is being done to address those issues. I'll reserve judgement on that until the beta is released (I know there's already been some updates due to developer feedback already, but other aspects have more to do with retraining muscle-memory than being "bad").
Never mind that over time (or especially on tablets), most apps will be available in Metro versions and you won't have to "switch back and forth" between two expereinces. And "Desktop only" users will likely have a way to work where the start-screen doesn't interrupt them and they don't have to look at Metro screens if they dont' want to.
So I reject your claim that Windows 8 doesn't have a nicely usable UI. It seems false just on the face of it.
You can see and experience all those things I listed today in the existing developer preview. The Beta will be out in a few months with a more polished UI on top of the improved guts and plumbing. I'm simply reserving judgement on UI aspects at this point, but the underpinnings seem pretty solid, with some pretty dramatic improvements over Windows 7 in there.