I am thinking of that. And from my experience, it takes time to search through the listings, find decent app candidates, download them, evaluate them... I'm sure you know the score.
...when you send them to download that JRE for your application, they'll probably just go and download a native application instead and be done with it.
Seems to me that in this situation, the step of installing a JRE (click and open... done) is far simpler than hunting around for an appropriate alternative application, native or not. Most users I run into have no problem installing a JRE if they're pointed to where the JRE can be downloaded from, or esp. if the JRE is included in the install.
If you want to hear the good stuff coming out, go to the "CoffeeHouse Rock" channel on DMX. It'll make you realize that not all the new stuff is rot-gut shit.
Yes, the ones with families are _much_ higher up on the food chain than us who were smart enough to not have children. Grow up. We all make our choices in life. And if most of an entire organization insists on using a specific browser, then management had better be the ones doing the caving.
There are plenty of techs out looking for work that unless you have a specific unique skill you'd be out on your ear ASAP with that attitude.
While this is sage advice, I can't help but wonder what this world would be like if everyone started refusing to comply with stupid rules. They can't fire us all, can they?
Re:How to stay employed
on
Ageism in IT?
·
· Score: 1
The thrill of installing a new operating system or learning the ins and outs of a new program is not exciting in the least to an older IT worker
Speak for yourself. I'm 36, and I'm joyously learning (some new, others just more deeply) Java, Linux, PHP, MySQL, Oracle, various web protocols and design concepts, various open-source projects (Java/PHP/Subversion, etc.), and doing it virtually simultaneously. Not only am I handsome... I am f*ckin' dynamic and brilliant. Stick your ageism where the sun don't shine, you goof.
Re:Young coders have no life
on
Ageism in IT?
·
· Score: 4, Funny
Solution: Hire a smart gay programmer in his 30's/40's. Usually no children. Oftentimes single or in a relationship that's not as co-dependent as that in hetero relationships. Rejected by youthful gay social culture as being too "old" for anything.
Result: An experienced programmer with lots of time on his hands (and other things you shouldn't ask about).
And people don't talk any longer about the pardons Bush Sr. gave to pretty shady individuals either. (I am an Independent -- that is, one who does his own thinking)
It would seem that MS is playing its cards the same way Saddam did. Eventually, this "law and order" regime (if it is to retain that title) will have no political choice but to eventually slam MS down, and good.
The combination of open source commoditization and open disgust by growing numbers of CIOs (esp. in governments) are probably viewed as leading indicators by the big fatso in Redmond.
Sounds like a typical C++ coder bias. I've actually found the reverse to be true. At least Pascal doesn't all but encourage the wacky unreadable coding that C++ does. And Object Pascal rocks!
That's what I'm doing.:) There are so many shops, esp. in government, where "system architecture" is still pretty much an unknown in the year 2003. Still *many* opportunities for experienced seniors if they would only grab it.
Yes, let the kid spend two days, working 12-hour days, doing what an experienced senior developer can handle with aplomb in 2 hours. Let the geezer go home to supper! He's getting far more work done!
As far as I'm concerned, managers who want to concentrate on hiring only young people and think that a youth-oriented work culture is going to get them the refined, high-quality, enterprise-level software development they're looking for, they may as well just burn money. The problem is, it's easy for them to make it _look_ like they're saving money over the short term. Managers who think long-term will hire programmers of varying degrees of experience instead of creating a shop that's ridiculously bottom-heavy. Experience has value that managers oftentimes are unable to comprehend, even when development problems caused by their myopic decisions continuously bash them in the head.
Since young minds are better suited for learning, they are going to be hired more often.
This is, of course, nowhere near the truth. I'm 36, and not only do I have a boatload of relevant experience, I also have learned to learn _faster_ with age. Experience (in most programmers I've known) leads to wider horizons and opportunities for understanding the many new technologies that come our way. There's also the axiom (followed by the experienced) that if you start slow, you'll finish fast--while the opposite is believed by the young and inexperienced (who often think that racing out of the gate will somehow help them accomplish the development of a complex system faster--it doesn't--it leads to doing it over and over again, even after it's in production, but I digress).
Oftentimes, managers will confuse the high energy and enthusiasm in younger people with the ability to deliver fantastic, high-quality results--boy are they ever wrong, wrong, wrong! Grumpy "old" men in their 30's and 40's usually turn in the best work, IMHO.
Slashdot Mirror
Think download.com.
I am thinking of that. And from my experience, it takes time to search through the listings, find decent app candidates, download them, evaluate them... I'm sure you know the score.
By acknowledging there are "exceptions", you just confirmed the parent poster is correct. Similar, but not the same.
"Mostly the same" is good enough for the non-anal. Why is this such an issue anyway?
Seems to me that in this situation, the step of installing a JRE (click and open... done) is far simpler than hunting around for an appropriate alternative application, native or not. Most users I run into have no problem installing a JRE if they're pointed to where the JRE can be downloaded from, or esp. if the JRE is included in the install.
And who's ever heard of an organization migrating from Java to .NET? Once they go Java, MS has lost them forever.
If you want to hear the good stuff coming out, go to the "CoffeeHouse Rock" channel on DMX. It'll make you realize that not all the new stuff is rot-gut shit.
Yes, the ones with families are _much_ higher up on the food chain than us who were smart enough to not have children. Grow up. We all make our choices in life. And if most of an entire organization insists on using a specific browser, then management had better be the ones doing the caving.
There are plenty of techs out looking for work that unless you have a specific unique skill you'd be out on your ear ASAP with that attitude.
While this is sage advice, I can't help but wonder what this world would be like if everyone started refusing to comply with stupid rules. They can't fire us all, can they?
The thrill of installing a new operating system or learning the ins and outs of a new program is not exciting in the least to an older IT worker
Speak for yourself. I'm 36, and I'm joyously learning (some new, others just more deeply) Java, Linux, PHP, MySQL, Oracle, various web protocols and design concepts, various open-source projects (Java/PHP/Subversion, etc.), and doing it virtually simultaneously. Not only am I handsome... I am f*ckin' dynamic and brilliant. Stick your ageism where the sun don't shine, you goof.
Solution: Hire a smart gay programmer in his 30's/40's. Usually no children. Oftentimes single or in a relationship that's not as co-dependent as that in hetero relationships. Rejected by youthful gay social culture as being too "old" for anything.
Result: An experienced programmer with lots of time on his hands (and other things you shouldn't ask about).
But voting won't do anything either. What's left? {I shudder to think}
You're right. If Bush is impeached for lying, the American people will get two a**holes brought down for the price of one.
And people don't talk any longer about the pardons Bush Sr. gave to pretty shady individuals either. (I am an Independent -- that is, one who does his own thinking)
I was looking for the terms corn-fed and apple pie in there, and discovered them sarcastically between the lines. :)
It would seem that MS is playing its cards the same way Saddam did. Eventually, this "law and order" regime (if it is to retain that title) will have no political choice but to eventually slam MS down, and good.
Perhaps Indians will now stop calling Americans who complain about the rampant outsourcing "racist". Sweet.
It's all about a bandwagoned race to the bottom. Every laborer on Earth is (or will be) affected, and it's _not_ good for anybody.
And standardized nutrition information has been a godsend to people who have to control their diet.
Microsoft is imploding. Pure and simple.
The combination of open source commoditization and open disgust by growing numbers of CIOs (esp. in governments) are probably viewed as leading indicators by the big fatso in Redmond.
Wow. Microsoft has become a cult. Charming.
The worst programmers I know started with Pascal.
Sounds like a typical C++ coder bias. I've actually found the reverse to be true. At least Pascal doesn't all but encourage the wacky unreadable coding that C++ does. And Object Pascal rocks!
Guess which looks better when the boss walks by?
Clue: Avoid bosses who are that clueless--they have no business being software development managers.
That's what I'm doing. :) There are so many shops, esp. in government, where "system architecture" is still pretty much an unknown in the year 2003. Still *many* opportunities for experienced seniors if they would only grab it.
you can work them harder
Yes, let the kid spend two days, working 12-hour days, doing what an experienced senior developer can handle with aplomb in 2 hours. Let the geezer go home to supper! He's getting far more work done!
I'm going to buck that "evolution" by becoming a non-management system architect. Much more interesting.
As far as I'm concerned, managers who want to concentrate on hiring only young people and think that a youth-oriented work culture is going to get them the refined, high-quality, enterprise-level software development they're looking for, they may as well just burn money. The problem is, it's easy for them to make it _look_ like they're saving money over the short term. Managers who think long-term will hire programmers of varying degrees of experience instead of creating a shop that's ridiculously bottom-heavy. Experience has value that managers oftentimes are unable to comprehend, even when development problems caused by their myopic decisions continuously bash them in the head.
Since young minds are better suited for learning, they are going to be hired more often.
This is, of course, nowhere near the truth. I'm 36, and not only do I have a boatload of relevant experience, I also have learned to learn _faster_ with age. Experience (in most programmers I've known) leads to wider horizons and opportunities for understanding the many new technologies that come our way. There's also the axiom (followed by the experienced) that if you start slow, you'll finish fast--while the opposite is believed by the young and inexperienced (who often think that racing out of the gate will somehow help them accomplish the development of a complex system faster--it doesn't--it leads to doing it over and over again, even after it's in production, but I digress).
Oftentimes, managers will confuse the high energy and enthusiasm in younger people with the ability to deliver fantastic, high-quality results--boy are they ever wrong, wrong, wrong! Grumpy "old" men in their 30's and 40's usually turn in the best work, IMHO.