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Mozilla 1.4RC2 Released
levell writes "Mozilla 1.4RC2 has been released. It looks like the final version of 1.4 may be out soon. It looks good although there are some problems with java on old linux systems (discussed here). 1.4 will be a long lived branch that some distributors will base versions of their own software on (e.g. Netscape planned release, codenamed "buffy"). 1.4 will be the last version of Mozilla released as a suite, after that the switch to separate browser, e-mail etc. applications will take place."
I can finally run a web browser not tied to a piece-of-crap IMAP client and mediocre newsreader.
--
I Hit the Karma Cap, and All I Got Was This Lousy
That accidentally doesn't work with this Mozilla any more... now that AOL's approved of IE and sunk Netscape and abandoned Mozilla (yet?), this is the next in line.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
"We do not guarantee that any source code or executable code available from the mozilla.org domain is Year 2000 compliant."
Good thing we're not in the year 2000 anymore. Lucky for those lazy developers...
-Adam
Hopefully the Camino developer(s) will now switch to this branch - from what I can see, the nightlies have been pretty variable quality ever since 0.7, which is when they switched to the trunk from a 1.0-ish branch.
..I just downloaded RC1 last night! Thank God for DSL...
It isn't just old Linux systems that have problems with Java - in fact, Java applets are one of two issues that cause Mozilla to crash. The other is viewing too many images in tabs - even if you close tabs after you've viewed the pics, and try not to keep more than a half-dozen open at once, eventually it will die, and the Netscape Quality Agent pops up...
Interesting that the last great, stable RH is considered too "old" for mozilla...
Or am I just overreacting? I like my 7.3 boxes, dammit.
Don't sweat the petty things. But do pet the sweaty things.
As open source projects, you'd think that Slashcode and Mozilla could meet halfway on this. But, as anyone who's tried to submit a patch to either project knows, they are open in name only. Development of both systems is really closed to outsiders and only insiders (the creators, their friends and people who think exactly the same way that they do) are allowed to submit patches. Witness the recent Taco IRC interview where his response to "when will Slashdot validate at the W3c" was "Whatever. Next."
Unfortunately, the auto makers have decided to sue the Mozilla team for using their trademarked names. The new names are now:
Buffy - Browser
Dawn - Mail Reader
Willow - HTML Editor
Xander - News Reader
Spike - Porn Search Plugin
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
go ahead, emerge
|---------------|
practically an AC
I linked to it in the story but the summary of the java problems on linux is:
You need to use a version of the java plugin that has been compiled with the same version of gcc that mozilla has been, the 1.4 latest branch mozilla build has been compiled with gcc3.2 and therefore you need to use the gcc3.2 plugin that ships in the latest betas of Sun's JRE (and there is also a suitable Blackdown java).
The kicker comes if you run an old linux distribution (e.g. Redhat 7.x), - you don't have the dynamic link libraries required to run gcc 3.2 code as they weren't available when RH7.x was released. Mozilla still runs as it includes all the relevant libraries statically linked inside it - the java plugin doesn't. You therefore either need to recompile Mozilla with an old version of gcc or install the libraries for gcc 3.2.
The release notes could do with a little tidying in order to make what java works where clear to users
.If this isn't fixed in the release version it would hint that Mozilla plan to phase out support for old distributions which would open to the door to things such as nice font rendering (via XFT) in the default builds, or do some other current distributions not come with XFT?
Struggling to find a day everyone can make? WhenShallWe.com
As usual, the Mac Users get shafted
Browser - The Mystery Machine
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
This is probably the most important feature missing from Mozilla for YEARS.
NTLM Support.
From the Release Notes page:
Mozilla on Windows now has support for NTLM authentication. This enables Mozilla to talk to MS web and proxy servers that are configured to use "windows integrated security".
Dolemite
_______________________
Save the World! Use a Quote!
was not mentioned in the 1.4 RC2 release notes as being fixed. This made the mailer completely useless as one out of 3 emails sent would crash the browser without delivering the email. I had to update to a Mozilla 1.5 beta snapshot to get around this problem. Is there any advantage to downgrading from a 1.5 beta snapshot to 1.4 RC2?
If they are going to drop the "suite" version I sure hope it does. This is the one feature stopping me from using Camino or even Safari. I love how all the newer browsers are supporting tabs now, but there is one feature from the "suite" Mozilla that I use every day but that none of the other browsers has added.
I just love tabbed homepages. The way you can save a tab group as a bookmark and then set that as your homepage. I use this every day; I load up my four most visited sites and just go. For some strange reason it makes a big difference.
"He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
thanks
john
The govenment owns my a$$ but...
All I Want For Christmas Is My Constitutional Rights
I think browser spoofing is a very bad thing. Yes it lets you load your page correctly, but it will never let the "powers that be" know that people use something other than IE.
I have stopped telling safari to use the IE "user agent" because of this. I want people to know that I use something that isn't Microsoft and sooner or later this is going to make a difference. Especially with the fact that M$ has officially dropped their IE for OS X.
I installed rc1 yesterday, no problems. RC2 will not install without having a newer glibc installed. Ugh.
I'd love to use it at work, but it doesn't seem to work with the dynamic menus we use. It's as though all menu options are written on top of each other.
:). I just know that Mozilla won't stand a chance of replacing IE in our place of work until these issues are fixed.
I've had a brief look at Bugzilla, but I seem to find a load of bugs listed as "evangelism required", or something similar.
This is a pity, since Konqueror can render them almost perfectly.
Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the web technologies involved to be able to comment further (or even look up the issues in Bugzilla properly
So instead of monolithic systems that try to do everything, this sounds like a swing back in the direction of discrete programs that only do one thing. (And hopefully do it well.)
I very much like the idea of being able to install my web browser of choice without being forced to simultaneously fill my hard drive with "extras" that don't quite do what I want, but can't be removed either. And browsers and office suites are just two places I'd like to see a little less of the "Swiss army knife" approach. (Sure, it's cool, but do you really need a telephone that can take pictures, program your VCR and mow the grass?)
Don't get me wrong, I agree that interoperability is a Good Thing. I just don't want to be forced to take on the clutter of tools I won't use.
Mozilla doesn't have native NTLM support it uses the NTLM support built into windows.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I looked at his username after I replied.
Slashdotter are stupid and biased.
I think developpers have said numerous times on Bugzilla that they didn't want to implement an "user friendly" browser spoofing feature because they believe it would hurt Mozilla in the long run.
The problem is that, if many people were using Mozilla spoofing (let's say) IE6, Mozilla "market share" would appear even lower in statistics than it already is, thus making even harder for Mozilla evangelists to do their job.
Who would want to support a browser that would seem to be used by 0.003% of web surfers ?
At least a crash of Mozilla on Windows doen't require an entire system reboot like another Windows browser that will remain unamed.
Are we still posting about every RC along the way? Granted, Mozilla is a great browser, possibly the best out there right now, but this version is just that: a release candidate. I don't see any reason why we need a story about every RCx that comes out... sure, the final release of 1.4, absolutely; but, until then, leave it to people that check the nightly release folder or the Mozilla start page.
Giles - JavaScript Console
Anya - Cookie Manager
Faith - Password Manager
Is multiple user accounts. That is something I need from a web browser, (as me and the wife both have about a ton of book marks, and like to keep things seperate.) Hopefully that will be released soon so I can completely move over. (Oh yea..and the Orbit theme :)
It's not the size of your .sig that matters, it's how you use it.
and it just broke! ... note to self 250 emails dont like filters....
You know you typed that from Internet Explorer!
From the release notes (emphasis mine):
Mozilla 1.4 requires Sun J2SE v 1.4.2 Beta to run Java applets
Why would they make a decision to make a browser dependent on an unreleased version of Java? 1.4.1_02 isn't good enough?
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
This is great news for Windows users, but what about the Linux and MacOS X users?
I use Konquerer under redhat 8, and Safari under MacOS X.
Unfortunatly I am on a modem, so has anybody tested it yet against the rendering of Safari, and Konquerer? I am a big fan of Mozilla, but not of it's speed, does this release improve it much? Will it be worth it to download the linux and MacOS X versions?
Error 407 - No creative sig found
Example menu?
Wouldn't surprise me if it is screwed up code on your part. I mean, making a menu isn't exactly complicated but people still manage to screw it up.
Do you have a link to a page using these menus, or are they all internal? I'm sure someone could tell you how to fix them. :)
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
Windows 9x can't use this, neither can Linux or OS X. XP, NT, & 2k are the only supported with this release. still nothing works. as it should, after three years
m.kelley
life is like a freeway, if you don't look you could miss it.
I am leaving in England at the moment; originally from Oz. When I return home I wanna try Mozilla. I always used netscape until i gave up after 4.x crashed my comp so many times. Is it good. Is it as supported as IE. etc etc. any comments would be appreciated.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
Now if only it would get included in a release (or nightly, for me,) of Mozilla Firebird. Then I'd be rid of Internet Explorer finally!
I just love the FUD that flies around here...
Yes if you use a older distro you will have troubles, simply get the sources and compile it... Magically the problem goes away.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Even if they are all internal, he *could* post an example of the menus, suitably stripped, on a geocities page.
Any professional pornographer has a mouse with a middle button so he can middle-click the link to open it in a new tab. Do you realize Control-Click requires both hands?
Netscape planned release, codenamed "buffy"
Buffy the IE slayer...... Hummm doesn't quite work.
Although the 'destroying the undead whose goal it is to reign the earth and bring pain, misery and fear to all' analogy may have some distance to run
:-]
Jaj
My guess is that your menus are not written to any sort of W3C standard, but are just cobbled together with IE-specific code.
Check everything with the validators. Write decent code. Don't expect Mozilla and other browsers to copy IE's bugs and idiosyncracies.
As a few other folks have pointed out on the usenet, there doesn't seem to be any new IRIX nightlies. While the other platforms have binaries built about once a day, the most recent IRIX nightly is from late May.
Does anyone from the Mozilla project happen to know what the problem is? Is there something that we IRIX users/developers can do to help? If it's a hardware need, I can probably spare an Octane or two to help the Mozilla project.
(e.g. Netscape planned release, codenamed "buffy").
As in "Ready to be canceled"?
Please! Anyone?
I'm sure this Mozilla doesn't have SVG support. However, I was wondering if anyone knew the status of the Adobe SVG Plugin's compatibility with the browser (whether Adobe is developing a new compatible plug-in or Mozilla compensating for Adobe's compatibility problems). My understanding is that Adobe developed the 3.0 plugin before the Mozilla API was frozen, and now it crashes the browser. This is common to Windows and Linux and for Mozilla derivatives as well (Netscape). Neither the Mozilla developers or Adobe seem to be budging. I just want to have some decent SVG support in Linux. Is SVG development something I should avoid?
This post was generated by a Cadre of Uber Monkeys for Monkey-Man2000 (603495).
As said by other poster, it's just on 2000, XP, 2003, NT. Not a generic fix.
And this bug (23679) is (was) the 3rd most voted one and the oldest one on the top 10 (most voted). Lot of things and temp workaround on the bug page.
Seems that, even with opensource, what the users wants is not met.
#include "coucou.h"
Next time maybe the guy should make his pages with Front Page. If it really has to work on "non-standard" browsers, about 50k of javascript browser sniffing code and branches produced by Adobe Golive might be just the ticket.
That sounds about right
HenryJamesFeltus.com
Isn't that a really bad thing? Making the users pay the price for spreading the message of the developers?
It's not about giving you good programs, it's about spreading our message and fame... a Really bad PR move.
I dunno.
I didn't want to come into work yesterday, and just mentioning Open Sores worked pretty damn well...
Searching for Truth, Justice, and the Guy Who Boosted My Wallet a Few Weeks Back....
Contrary to the reference browser, Mozilla does not allow this.
Jesus, shut up. Just shut up, and let the big boys play, whiney.
It was in 1.4rc1 also, so it's technically not that "new" for this release. Check the release notes of 1.4rc1 here.
Do all the "important" surfing actions (Open new tab, bookmark, save image, Open every link and the all important Minimize Window!) with just one hand.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Threaded mail is a handy feature, especially when following multiple discussions on mailing lists. And, though Mozilla supports threading, it just doesn't remember the threaded expansion state.
So, you could turn on threading (View -> Sort By -> Threaded). Then, you'd probably expand the threads (View -> Threads -> Expand All Threads). So far, so good. But, if you switch to another folder and come back to the original one, the threads won't be expanded anymore.
This is bug 64426 and you can vote for it if you like (of course, you'll need a free Bugzilla account to vote). You may need to copy-n-paste the links into your URL bar, as Bugzilla doesn't accept referrerrs from Slashdot.
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
I've had 20 tabs full of pr0n open at once without a problem. It helps that I've got 512MB of RAM.
How difficult is hitting return once at the start of the day when the dialog box pops up?
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
mozilla.org doesn't have RPMs for this version (or a few versions back, for that matter)... Should I as an RH 9 user just wait for the official release? Obviously there's some way to generate an RPM, but looking around the mozilla.org Unix build instructions web pages doesn't point to instructions. (Searching freshrpms turns up nothing.)
She's a Scooby again.
Don't take this personally, but mathematicians and physicists have been able to communicate their ideas for three hundred years without the benefit of MathML. Typography is convenient, but if you're creative, you can find ways around the limitations. And if you're posting on sitessuch as k5, you probably want to keep it simple for the masses anyway.
I put on my robe and wizard hat
J-Dogg> Baby, I been havin a tough night so treat me nice aight?
BritneySpears27> Aight.
J-Dogg> Slip out of those pants baby, yeah.
BritneySpears27> I slip out of my pants, just for you, J-Dogg.
J-Dogg> Oh yeah, aight. Aight, I put on my robe and wizard hat.
BritneySpears27> Oh, I like to play dress up.
J-Dogg> Me too baby.
BritneySpears27> I kiss you softly on your chest.
J-Dogg> I cast Lvl. 3 Eroticism. You turn into a real beautiful woman.
BritneySpears27> Hey...
J-Dogg> I meditate to regain my mana, before casting Lvl. 8 Cock of the Infinite.
BritneySpears27> Funny I still don't see it.
J-Dogg> I spend my mana reserves to cast Mighty Fuk of the Beyondness.
BritneySpears27> You are the worst cyber partner ever. This is ridiculous.
J-Dogg> Don't fuk with me bitch, I'm the mightiest sorcerer of the lands.
J-Dogg> I steal yo soul and cast Lightning Lvl. 1,000,000 Your body explodes into a fine bloody mist, because you are only a Lvl. 2 Druid.
BritneySpears27> Don't ever message me again you piece of shiat.
J-Dogg> Robots are trying to drill my brain but my lightning shield inflicts DOA attack, leaving the robots as flaming piles of metal.
J-Dogg> King Arthur congratulates me for destroying Dr. Robotnik's evil army of Robot Socialist Republics. The cold war ends. Reagan steals my accomplishments and makes like it was cause of him.
J-Dogg> You still there baby? I think it's getting hard now.
J-Dogg> Baby?
*
I'm a Rhino
sexysusan> Thats ok. Ok I'm a japanese schoolgirl, what are you.
J-Dogg> A Rhinocerus. Well, hung like one, thats for sure.
sexysusan> Haha, ok lets go.
sexysusan> I put my hand through your hair, and kiss you on the neck.
J-Dogg> I stomp the ground, and snort, to alert you that you are in my breeding territory.
sexysusan> Haha, ok, you know that turns me on.
sexysusan> I start unbuttoning your shirt.
J-Dogg> Rhinoceruses don't were shirts.
sexysusan> No, your not really a Rhinocerus silly, it's just part of the game.
J-Dogg> Rhinoceruses don't play games. They fuking charge your ass.
sexysusan> Stop, c'mon be serious.
J-Dogg> It doesn't get any more serious than a Rhinocerus about to charge your ass.
J-Dogg> I stomp my feet, the dust stirs around my tough skinned feet.
sexysusan> Thats it.
J-Dogg> Nostrils flaring, I lower my head. My horn, like some phallic symbol of my potent virility, is the last thing you see as skulls collide and mine remains the victor. You are now a bloody red ragdoll suspended in the air on my mighty horn.
J-Dogg> Goddam am I hard now.
*
Britney> Part 2
BritneySpears14> Ok, are you ready?
eminemBNJA> Aight, yeah I'm ready.
BritneySpears14> I like your music Em... Tee hee.
eminemBNJA> huh huh, yeah, I make it for the ladies.
BritneySpears14> Mmm, we like it a lot. Let me show you.
BritneySpears14> I take off your pants, slowly, and massage your muscular physique.
eminemBNJA> Oh I like that Baby. I put on my robe and wizard hat.
BritneySpears14> What the fuck, I told you not to message me again.
eminemBNJA> Oh shit
BritneySpears14> I swear if you do it one more time I'm gonna report your ISP and say you were sending me kiddie porn you fuck up.
eminemBNJA> Oh shit
eminemBNJA> damn I gotta write down your names or something
*
Mmmmm, Vegtables
J-Dogg> Wanna cyber?
Partner7> Sure, you into vegetables?
J-Dogg> What like gardening an shit?
Partner7> Yeah, something like that.
J-Dogg> Nuthin turns me on more, check this out
J-Dogg> You bend over to harvest your radishes.
(pause)
Partner7> is that it?
J-Dogg> You water your tomato patch.
J-Dogg> Are you ready for my fresh produce?
Partner7> I was thinking of like, sexual acts INVOLVING vegetables... Can you make it a li
Does anyone know if they have FINALLY fixed that saved form information bug? Meaning that if I choose not to save the information entered in forms, it still does anyway because it doesn't listen to your preference?
I think a better way to view like this would be using Tiled browsing. Have 4 pages simulatneously loaded, and scroll to the "relavant" information at each one, and blammo! "Raised productivity" from being able to view multiple "documents" at once so that you can "deliver your report" to the "executive office."
i use linux and windows oh god how can i have an opinion
My question is simple, and I'm not a netscape user so maybe someone can enlighten me,
But what's the point of Netscape taking the latest mozilla code, as they have done for quite a while now, and creating their own browser? Are there some added features that Mozilla doesn't include? Seems like taking one thing and calling it another, unless there is some compelling reason to use netscape over mozilla.
Thanks!
Just installed it and it loaded in 1-2 secs.. This looks promising..
Not to mention the major burst of insanity that surrounded the removal of MNG/JNG support, two perfectly useful new formats.
0
Mind-boggling Bugzilla discussion of this is here - http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=19528
--riney
A non linked URL would be cool.
Sometimes when I am fishing I wonder if fish sometimes bite knowing they are going to encounter a hook. Anyway, I get tired of the "give us news, stuff that matters" rants.
There is an awful lot of information out here on the net. It is your job to sift through it all, determine what is of interest to you, and IGNORE THE REST. Along the way, if you feel you have something to contribute, please share.
Really, if this story is of no interest to you, move on to the next one. I think, as I'm sure many other people think, that announcing releases on a site with a high geek population is a good way to recruit quality beta testers who will fill out useful bug reports and help to drive the software development process forward. This means you get your free software faster and with less bugs. It's fine if you don't feel like taking the time to help out yourself, but give us the few tenths of a second it should take you to read the headline and decide to skip the story. Think of it as your way of helping to keep free software moving forward.
If you take the time to click on the headline, scan down to the bottom of the comments, and compose a mini rant about how you didn't feel you needed to know the information the story provides, people might get the impression that you just felt like whining.
It seems a bit hypocritical to rant about wanting stuff that matters within a post that almost everyone will consider noise, not signal.
Have a nice day.
Of course not. If you're not willing to do the work, why should anyone else necessarily be? Perhaps the problem is highly difficult--an utterly undocumented and obfuscated protocol, maybe. Free software is about empowering user-developers, not about empowering leeches.
The free market doesn't give everyone what he wants either: I still do not have my 20,000 sq. foot house, an army of servants and a dozen Jaguars. It does the best job possible of meeting what everyone wants and deserves. So too free software.
If you want a feature, code it.
Well the whole point of open source is that if the users really want a feature or bugfix, they can write it themselves. For example, I very much want live image-blocking alerts to come back (it was removed due to bugginess in Moz 0.9ish), but I don't have the time/skill/resources, so I shut up and wait.
BlackGriffen
I have been trying to keep up with Mozilla developments, and have noticed here that there are still bugs to be resolved that are apparently blockers (or go straight to the bug list). The strange thing is, there was mentioned a possibility of rebranding RC2 as final, according to the recent staff meeting minutes (*1.4*, Point 3).
I find it strange that the Mozilla team is prepared to release 1.4 (which will replace the 1.0.x branch) with previously-declared blocker bugs still floating around.
Ask me about repetitive DNA
that's not the case for 1.4. MNG/JNG has been removed from the trunk (pre-1.5alpha builds), but it is still in 1.4RC2 and will appear in Mozilla 1.4.
I had just downloaded and finally compiled the 0.6 Firebird.
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i586; en-US; rv:1.4b) Gecko/20030616 Mozilla Firebird/0.6
Luckily my RH 6.2 had almost all the prerequisites except perl FILE::Spec 8.
But I couldn't do it without cvs!! There is no tarball for 1.4RC1 and the previous tarball does NOT include Firebird--it was missing the toolkit and browser directories!!!
Needless to say downloading the whole cvs tree--over half a gig--on dialup was a nightmare compared to 40+ MB of tar.bz2. Even those tiny little CVS directories added up to over 100 MB across the huge Mozilla directory structure.
Even then mozilla/ipc wasn't populated, so I could never do a make clean without gripes of a missing Makefile.in.
Using gcc-2.95.3 with options like -fstrict-aliasing and -fomit-frame-pointer help alot, though Firebird is still demonstrably slower than Netscape 4.7x.
Did anyone file a bug report that the "save as" menus are in Chinese?
Actually the support to use Windows' built-in NTLM function was added in RC1, not RC2. I am currently blissfully using Mozilla 1.4RC1 at work now through the silly Microsoft proxy thanks to this NTLM support. Previously, I was forced to use MSIE since nothing else would work!
Most of those things in the release notes are things that were added in earlier 1.4a/b/rc1 releases. NTLM, overhauled bookmarks, composer dynamic resizing, smooth scrolling and numerous others were in previous release notes too.
You are so right. Even after upgraded it to the 2.4.21 kernel, my intergrated toaster kettle was never stable.
Karma: Bad due to google bombing - Robert Watkins woz 'ere.
Xnews kicks ass.
Don't let the name fool you. It is a Windows program. I usderstand it works in Wine, although I haven't tried it yet.
I'm using Firebird 0.6 on Windows and NTLM authentication is working fine.
Unless you're running Win95, IExplore is a separate process and doesn't necessarily kill the system...
As a bugzilla member who's worked on a lot of evangelism bugs, I can tell you that the problem is 99% likely to be bad DHTML on your site. Please post the URL here, or submit it to Bugzilla for investigation.
BTW, the exact symptoms you describe are often seen in HierMenus 4.0, due to non-compliant CSS-P. If your site uses HierMenus, updating to v4.2 or higher will fix the problem.
Why is this a troll and the parent isn't? Because he claimed that you don't need to reboot when IE crashes (which is true for modern Windows versions)?
Only on Slashdot can I post a joke about Open Sores using Mozilla on a Debian box and have it modded as troll.
Searching for Truth, Justice, and the Guy Who Boosted My Wallet a Few Weeks Back....
I emailed tech support and their reply was, "we only support IE in Windows, get partition magic and install windows on your computer."
.haeger
Then do what I do. Refuse to use their service. My bank didn't allow me to use Mozilla on Linux, bye bye bank. I can find someone else to give my money to. My company recently installed a time-reportin tool that requires Windows and IE, I still send my report card to a secretary since I don't have a computer with IE on it, it's either that or they can PAY me to come in in the evening to fill out those damn web-reports in IE, and I guarantee You that I will do this on high pay time.
Don't cave in. All over the world there is one thing people understand. Money. If not supporting Mozilla starts costing them money then they'll have to rethink.
I'm sure I could install windows if they like, provided that they pay for the licese, the computer, my time to install and administer the box. If they want me to run it, they'd better pay me. I don't do boring stuff on my spare time.
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. -- Harlan Ellison
I hope you've raised a bug on this problem. I don't doubt you're seeing an issue, but I suspect that unless others know about it too it will never go away.
that'll show 'em!
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
And couldn't this browser spoofing be host/domain specific? This would allow users to properly browse IE-targeted sites while sustaining the Mozilla usage stats elsewhere...
this may be even coded in a plugin so only concerned users access this feature...
someone ought to get a good beating over the head with a large cluestick...
Yes, the webmaster that wrote a website relying on USER_AGENTs being reported and didn't offer a fallback option for when User_agent is blank / misleading
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
> Was 5 naked people at once really not enough?
And that was just one of the pics.
Maybe you live in interesting times
Say what you want about Bank of America, but their online banking works great with Netscape/Mozilla. I think WAMU works o.k. too. Is there a website out there that lists IE only companies/services? A list like that would definitely bring this problem into the open and possibly shame companies into cross-platform development.
You can download a spellchecker for Mozilla here;
:-).
http://spellchecker.mozdev.org/
It also includes links to non - american english dictionaries, I have been using the UK english one with some builds very happily.
The version for Mozilla 1.4 Beta is already there. I use Mozilla as my only mail client at work and have been using this for over a year without any major problems. If only it could test spelling in input boxes, I could even spell check my slashdot comments
Yeah, I'm an MF'er who doesn't fill out bug reports. Kill me.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
Won't the users pay the price in the long run when corporations see that 99.9% of their website visitors are IE users, and implement future IE-specific features that Microsoft has made sure alternative browsers are unable to implement?
As I see it, this is similar to other forms of discrimination -- people are being forced to look like the majority (in this case, IE users) so that they don't get treated differently.
This is slashdot, it's a windows hate group. The facts are irrelevant. It's because of attitudes like this that less people are switching to linux in the first place. People see linux lovers ignore obvious facts and the current state of microsoft software like this and figure that their love of linux is equally crazy. It's bad PR, really.
Am i the only one using mozilla mail? I love the spam filter, and after a few tweaking, i can block most of the crap that comes to my inbox.
I recently tried the email standalone mozilla thunderbird (aka minotaur) and wasnÂt impressed. Lacks multiple accounts, no bayes spam filter and lots of other nice things found on mozilla mail that are simply not there yet on thunderbird.
I hope that they get the thunderbird up to the level of mozilla mail before going thunderbird only.
I love mozilla firebird, and hopefully thunderbird will follow the same path as its browser counterpart.
Python NTLM Authentication Proxy
Small, fast, and simple, it works like a charm. I'm guessing it would work on other platforms supported by Python as well.
"Gold still represents the ultimate form of payment in the world." - Alan Greenspan, 1999
This is the funniest thing I've seen on Slashdot ever. My friend and I used to use Microsoft Comic Chat back in the 90s to do "chat terrorism". gdiersing, you are now on my friends list. Welcome and keep up the good work.
Un-news
Why can't they allow the user to specify a list of sites that need IE spoofing? That way, Mozilla could claim to be IE for those few sites, but Gecko for the rest?
They are STILL using gtk 1. Why can't they use a real toolkit like gtk 2.x or WxWindows. (Yes, i know about the ./configure --enable-gtk-2 but it should be enabled by default).
Maybe Mozilla could allow for site-based spoofing like they offer site-based image blocking and site-based cookie blocking. Then, for those few lowlifes that insist on finding ways to (break|torment|block) Mozilla for no good reason can be made to work, despite their best efforts to the contrary.
That may be contrary to Mozilla's philosophy... but, someone's gotta blink first or the users get caught in the middle.
Is this the feature that allows people to migrate from Netscape 4.x?
I hope it is!
Sorry, you don't have much of a case there. Your choice of browser is just that, your choice. Government cannot discriminate based on factors that people have no choice about (gender, race) or on factors that are considered beyond criticism (religion). (Private entities should have the right to freedom of association, but I digress.) But on matters of choice, they don't have to cater to your whims. If your choice of transportation mode is a bicycle, sorry, you can't ride it on the freeway, and this is not discrimination against bicycle-riders.
One may be able to make the argument that the government ought to conform to established standards rather than the arbitrary behaviors of any given product, so that any conforming interface would work with it. But this is hardly the same thing as discrimination.
In summary, what you're saying is correct. Validate the code, don't just design an IE-only page. Just don't cry "discrimination" so lightly.
Constitutionally Correct
Agreed. It is not Mozilla's fault that everyone spoofs Mozilla. IE started the evil trend of spoofing. This is just like blaming the victim of identity theft. Mozilla's identity is stolen when you spoof - that is not Mozilla's fault.
It may not even be fair to blame IE (or Opera, or anyone else). After all, MS was just responding to all the web dee-zine-urs who incorporated nonstandard golly-gee-whiz features into their pages and wanted a way to keep others from seeing their broken creations. When IE got up to speed, they needed a way to "get to the good stuff" without waiting for the dee-zine-urs to fix their browser sniffers.
Moral of the story? Designers: stop sniffing. Surfers: stop spoofing. The truth shall set you free.
Constitutionally Correct
So what about the fact they are helping a company violate anti-trust law? A huge portion of M$'s anti-trust violations were due to deliberately making M$ products not work with competing products. It doesn't look good when the US government assists them.
Quantify please.
What? You can't?
Didn't think so.
I can.
Moz has tabbed browsing.
Moz has better standards compliance.
Moz has an integrated stepping/watching/breakpointing JS debugger.
Moz has (native) popup blocking and finer-grained scripting controls.
Moz is cross-platform.
You are an idiot.
Why support the browsers? That's an exercise in futility. Support the standards, and leave it to the browsers to adhere to the standards.
Any web page that is "best viewed with XXXXX" sucks, by definition.
Regards,
--
*Art
there's always the one guy who says he'll refuse, but then does cave (for whatever reason). guess who becomes the next PHB?
(no, not player's handbook)
ed
Thats is SO funnny the rest of this lame discussion about MOZILLA should be considered OFFTOPIC.
I agree. Spoofing IE is a problem. However, I do spoof, in an unusual way:
... you should, too) to think that I'm using their branded browser -- it will encourage them to continue pumping funds into the project.
/apps/galeon/Advanced/Network/user_agent --type=string "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20030208 Netscape/7.02"
Now that I have Ximian Desktop 2 installed, I've got Galeon configured to spoof Netscape 7.02. Does this seem odd? I do it because I want webmasters to think "He's using Netscape." Also, I want Netscape (whose portal I use daily
For those interested, you can do it with the following command (do this as the user you want to run as, not as root) --
gconftool-2 -s
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
well, if the developers/company thought that they should write to the standard and leave it up to the client to render the standard.. then we wouldn't have this problem of hotmail, msn, whatever using the passed user agent to block access to people using client X. That is the point of this thread, those sites have a history of introducing rendering error into Opera/Mozilla (to name a few) to make it appear that the user is using a sub-standard product (IE renders correctly of course). Guess what, spoofing as IE makes the page render correctly in mozilla or opera..
Very nice, but then comes the guy who pays your rent and says that he doesn't give a damn about the standards, but his site should look good in the latest version of AOL and in the Netscape on a Mac. And there goes the standard.
No, because it's so damn obvious that you anonymous cowards are lying.
All the sites I make (all one of them) are XHTML. But the sites I post to are HTML and I can't put MathML on them like I want. How will "getting over myself" fix that?
I hope the Mozilla Calendar will get a standalone counterpart like the browser and mail client have in Firebird and Thunderbird. An high-quality iCal-compatible calendar is seriously needed on the Linux desktop.
Mozilla on linux has had on again off again support for telnet:// links
launching an xterm to telnet to hosts or networking equipment.
Bug 33282 at bugzilla.mozilla.org has been open for over three years to track this issue.
Mozilla 1.1 supports it only with protozilla added. Protozilla is no longer under development.
Lots of activity in the bug, but it appears that the coders are too afraid
of getting the security aspects wrong to want to enable this functionality
in linux
Although I've had some coders offer to fix this for me for money, I don't
have the resources to pay for this fix.
Since this feature works on all other platforms and works on linux in the
Netscape 4.x train I'd think this would be a _requirement_ for 1.0.
This feature should be enabled but default to off for those of us that
absolutely have to have telnet:// links working and understand and are
willing to take the security risk.
And, no Mozilla Firebird, doesn't fix this.
Barnaby
firebird has a browser spoofing extension utility... http://chrispederick.myacen.com/work/firebird/user agentswitcher/
firebird has a browser spoofing extension utility...
http://chrispederick.myacen.com/work/firebird/user agentswitcher/
Last time I checked, Internet Explorer crashing doesn't cause a system reboot either.
Use Opera. With it's built-in Mouse Gestures feature, you can right-click/drag down and open a new tab. You can also right-click/drag down,drag right to close the window. Handy for some of that crap. Or should I say, one-handy?
Opera.com
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
2E69 approx. - A.D. 1,834,652,618,499,343,590,337,415,746,119,712,509, 834,124,421,548,072,260,582,352,567,003,896-01-25 Sat 17:06:08 GMT, UNIX 256-bit signed time_t fails.
, 834,124,421,548,072,260,582,352,567,001,893 more years!
I mean my god! We better get patching! Only *pulls out calculator* 1,834,652,618,499,343,590,337,415,746,119,712,509
Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
I've put macosX version on Gnutela (via LimeWire) here:
mozilla-1.4RC2-mac-MachO.dmg.gz
Has anyone else noticed that the smooth scrolling [1] doesn't really scroll that smooth? For example, if you do a "pg up" or "pg dn" in a window with general.smoothScroll set to "true" it does a wacky herky-jerky page up/down scroll. weird.
[1] To enable smoot scrolling, enter "about:config" into the location bar, then right click anywhere and choose new -> boolean. Then enter "general.smoothScroll" (exactly) and set it to "true". To disable, set it to "false".
MOD ME UP, I MADE FUN OF WINDOWS USERS! I AM A TOOL!
(here's some lowercase text to pass the lameness filter)
You slashdotted bugzilla.n dex.html?id =23679
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/slashdot/i
He who knows not and knows he knows not is a wise man. He who knows not and knows not he knows not is a fool.
Full one and detail /.
but mirror please before you
Over the baltic sea in poland. 150 times in small city, hand printed.
thank you for your attention
Kinda OT:
/.er's) I've met on Trepia on to Mozilla in the past week. Made sure they would tell their friends about it too. When do I get my wings? :)
I've turned 2 people (non
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
almost an hour? really? for a little app like Mozilla? Good lord I can't imagine how long it takes to compile a kernel. (and I know how much you people like to compile stuff)
It's just more proof that linux is more trouble than it's worth.
You people would probably rather carry a brick one by one than use a wheelbarrow.
Sounds like a problem with the DHTML script/CSS rather than Mozilla. There's absolutely no reason it shouldn't work if the authors knew what they were doing. Fixing the script would be much easier.
You can find these in /pub/mozilla/nightly/experimental/gtk2.
RC2 isn't available yet, but probably will within a week or so. In RedHat 9 this will give you antialiased fonts (I run RC1 and it is beautiful).
IE doesn't crash as much
IE is made by MS
IE is not a shitty knock off of nutscrape
therefore ie is better
you are teh gehy
I hope you've raised a bug on this problem. I don't doubt you're seeing an issue, but I suspect that unless others know about it too it will never go away.
ha ha ha ha ha
YHBT! YAAD! FOAD! HTH! HAND!
Thank you. Thank you so much. Beer all over the keyboard, that kind of thing.
Be wary of any facts that confirm your opinion.
I could easily find a more recent one stating the same facts if you like. One of the Mozilla guys emailed me basically the same info about 6 months ago.
Looks like another blindly antiwindoze zealot got mod points again...
to the moon!!
This isn't even meant to be a stable release.
to be honest, if you can't even manage to compile the source you shouldn't be bothering with a non-stable release anyway.
I am NaN
bye bye bank
Is this always possible? Terre Haute First National Bank holds a geographic monopoly in Terre Haute, Indiana, USA. Until recently, First blocked Mozilla from its web banking application.
Will I retire or break 10K?
1.4 will the last version of Mozilla released as a suite, after that the switch to separate browser, e-mail etc. applications will take place.
Oh, thank goodness! I've got a rather humble box right now, and for the most part, I'm fine, because I run minimalist software like Fluxbox. But Mozilla is a hog. I tried Phoenix, and it's nice... but it doesn't have all the fine-grained "power user" features of Mozilla that hardcore webheads like myself and many people on this site appreciate. (I know, it's designed this way.)
So a separate Mozilla browser, Mozilla mail client, etc., would be fantastic. Breaking out the IRC client would be nice too, as it's pretty kludgy. I think what we're seeing here is Mozilla getting back to the roots of the UNIX philosophy (one job, one tool), and away from the "suite" mentality from the days when Netscape was competing heavily with MS... and adding "integrated" bloat every step of the way.
(context: discrimination against mozilla, to discrimination against non-IE browsers, to discrimination against user agents used by blind users)
Are there any blind slashdotters anyhow?
If there are, they have low UIDs. Sometime within the last four years, Slashdot introduced an account signup verification that included reading printed digits from a GIF image, to keep out spambots. People with a sight disability cannot use this signup form.
Will I retire or break 10K?
So I decided I'd try to get it with CVS, but they don't say what the release tag is for 1.4rc2.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Software developers putting their own interest ahead of the users'?! What is the industry coming to?
David Gould
main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
Check out www.crazybrowser.com for a tabbed browser that uses IE to render html. It looks and feels like IE only having tabs. Yay! It's only 600k IIRC.
It's not my code - I just have to use it (and yes, it's internal, so it's not on any external website).
But I'm curious as to why Konqueror makes a much better job of it than Mozilla does. Maybe Konqueror compensates for more IE buglets.
CSS is seriously broken, and no one in a leadership capacity seems to know enough to fix it.
Yup, agreed. It was in there about the same time as 1.4RC1.
Random is the New Order.
I don't know if this is feasible, but could it be possible that if you're spoofing another browser, that for each request sent, two more are sent for the same resource with the true Mozilla identifier?
That way, for each hit representing another browser, you send two more to try and "even the score" for Mozilla.
Maybe even a "Mozilla: Yes It Works, I'm Using It Now" identifying string could be helpful. Maybe they'd get the message if all of a sudden 15% of their visitors (for example) are using this browser that tells them explicitly that it's working...
Also, If you leave too many Flash applets open Mozilla will grind to an annoying halt.
While the same load in IE continues to run.
The difference? IE controls how much CPU to give to the Flash applets. Mozilla doesn't.
Is "applet nicing" possible? It should be one of the features urgently needed for Mozilla to be usable today.
Why, oh why doesn't Mozilla have 'Load Image' on the context menu?? I am on a slow link and I want to be able to load images IN PLACE rather than 'Show image' on a clean screen.
Funny how porn sites show you their crummy stuff first, and make you work for the good stuff. Kinda like FM radio playing all their crap during the workday, and then, right at 5 o clock, suddenly coming up with some good stuff, when you get in your car and can choose your station. (Presumably, during the workday, the dominant ape gets to choose the radio channel.)
Let's face it, there are other (better) free email services out there. There's no reason to continue to visit sites that are deliberately broken when the content is not there.
Now if all you mainly do is solve equations, then you'll be better off with MathML, but that's far from what all mathematicians work on. I agree with you on the latex, but I wonder how you communicate with your colleagues. In my experience, either an email contains an unfinished paper *as an attachment*, or it contains a small argument which invariably concentrates on the *idea* more than the details. Long winded very latexy email bodies are just not done.
I don't think I was arguing for shunning improvement. I found the original post to be a lame excuse, something like "others aren't supporting my pet standard, so I can't do my best work because of them". Perhaps it wasn't meant that way, but I just pointed out that mathematicians and physicists have dealt with physical limitations on typography for a long time. Once MathML is ubiquitous, by all means let's use it, but until then there's no point in whining. There's a lot of papers written in the 60s and 70s with typewriters, so what? They're worth reading for the ideas, not the presentation.
It's not so much about PR as it is about compliance and page accessability.
If only "0.003%" of surfers seem to be using Mozilla, why would anybody want to code pages to comply with it? If, on the other hand, 25% of page hits were Mozilla, that would make it a definately viable target for developmental testing of all new pages.
This is (one of the reasons) why Opera is having problems making inroads into the market. It's so easy for users to just switch to IE6 and solve their short-term problems that they don't consider the long-term implications.
BD Phone Home!
Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.
The only weapon of mass destruction is nuclear. In all others, matter is conserved.
Almost a witty sig, except for the fact that matter is not destroyed in a nuclear reaction either... It is simply converted to energy. It may also be broken down into simpler forms a la fusion, but NEVER destroyed.
I don't mind making major spending decisions based on political reasons, but the absolute dumbest reason I've ever heard of was that a website had browser-specific code. If you browsed your Opera to check the human rights record of Toyota, and compared that with MB and BMW, and based your decision on what you found, then I wouldn't think you were completely silly.
I'm not too familiar with how well the formula editor works in OOo but I know you can insert a formula into a drawing and export it to pretty much any graphic format you could want. Not ideal but at least it's a browser/email friendly way of sending a formula.
I wonder what do you need your other hand for ...
But.. but... I just bought Duke Nukem 3D yesterday!
Likewise, most people who use wheelchairs. know at least one able-bodied person that could help them climb stairs.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Huh? That statement wasn't made in defense of tables. The Zen Garden exists to showcase flexible CSS layout - you can't have the flexibility of some of those layouts when you're using tables. That's what the author meant.
Linux & Perl are seriously broken, and no one in a leadership capacity seems to know enough to fix them.
Hey, it IS fun making blanket statements about arbitrary technology I don't understand!
...but why bother convincing someone who's looking for faults?
"[Wired] does wierd things when sized very small" - that's like saying my car reverses kind of funny when I'm backing up a 30 degree incline. Valid point, but what the fuck?
Use tables for tabular data. Anyone who says you shouldn't is an idiot.
Yes, but I understand page formatting very well.
This is the finest comedy of all time. Thank you sir.
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=207545