Since Mr. Reyk hasn't filed suit, it's totally academic what the 'madwifi fuckers' did or did not do.
For someone who make such strong claims on being intellectually correct, this is an interesting position to take. So, in your world, as long as no suit is filed, any action taken is just "totally academic"?
If you have an axe to grind, take it up with them.
I don't really have an axe to grind. It's just two people in the madwifi group that did that "totally academic" but unethical thing. And have not apologized for it.
If, alternately, you have a thoughtful and reasoned criticism (and preferably some strong evidence for your allegations), please share it.
Umm... you did not manage to follow the original link that I had originally responded to? Would you like a signed and sealed piece of paper? Go read the link again - note that Theo was talking about the OpenHAL code. http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/openbsd-misc/2007/9/13/259448/thread
If you want to look for evidence, you can find it yourself. OpenBSD's CVS is open. I'm sure madwifi's repository is available too. Look at code check in dates. Make up your own mind. *big hint* OpenBSD's OpenHAL is dated a year earlier, according to 3rd party reports. Please do not let this *big hint* color your perception or conclusion. KTHXHAND
Very good. You can go take the bar exam. Meanwhile, in the real world, English is my fourth language. I'm a simple man using simple words.
So, just to double check with you - do you support or do you not support what the madwifi fuckers did with Reyk's code - specifically the reverse engineered bits?
Very Drool. Unfortunately you got it backwards. They had the opensource version first, since they reverse engineered it. The madwifi fuckers asked for a year for it to be re-licensed under GPL, and it was refused. So, the madwifi fuckers stole the code (any time you take someone else's code, and put your own license around it, and list yourself as the author, that's stealing).
OpenBSD does not need this code, since they already had a working copy.
Ego gratification is not sufficient justification to perform unauthorized modifications to a shipping application.
This is why programming is not ENGINEERING because too damned many people are still damned cowboys. True software engineers are few and far in between. Unfortunately, every monkey and their cousin seem to think that it's OK to call themselves that too.
That, and the fact that most idiots don't even know what the hell is an easter egg, (or another pet peeve - RAID is NOT FSCKING INDEPENDENT DRIVES YOU BLOODY MORONS, IT'S INEXPENSIVE DURING THE TIMES WHEN 20 MEGABYTE DRIVES COST THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BECAUSE MAINFRAME DRIVES COST MUCH MUCH MORE, MUCKING FORONS - SCSI WAS CONSIDERED THE *INEXPENSIVE* DRIVES)
Not sure why I was modded funny, but read up on Melinda Gates and the project she headed before she married good 'ol Bill.
Now, what's funny was that Bill was building his $50mil house. Melinda asked to have a peek at the plans. Bill said sure. Melinda started making suggestions on modifications to the house. Bill went, "But Honey, it's already a $50mil house."
Melinda looked at Bill, and asked, "But Bill, I thought you wanted kids?"
And that is how Bill Gates ended up with a $100mil house.
Obviously there are plenty of reasons why code sucks. Uptight stupid people is one of them. Damned cowboys is another one. People who write "clever code" instead of well documented and clear code is yet another.
But we're not talking about code that sucks, we're talking about the damned cowboy attitude.
If you really want to improve yourself, head on over to the Software Engineering Institute and look at what they do. It's started by the guy who IBM brought in to stop the mainframes from crashing - the reputation for stability wasn't there in the beginning. IBM brought this guy in to stop it. All he did on day is is two things. One, stop all software going out. Two, everyone who wanted to ship something to the customer had to put together a one page description of what the software does - description, not even justification!!!
*WRONG* You guys are the reasons why software sucks in general, the damned cowboy attitudes. Professional developers leave the need to "leave their mark" at home. You're not a fucking dog needing to pee on a tree to show "your mark".
If I want to personally sign things I do so in the comments. While most of mine are direct and to the point there is generally some humor in them and personal touches. It is one place I feel fairly confident that it will not hurt anything else and the reality is that this is the only place anyone is really going to have any idea that the easter egg is actually yours.
Exactly. It was pretty interesting to have that happen to me. I had left a previous place. A couple of years later, my friend told me that the guy who inherited my crap was going through my documentation, looked up after reading for a while, and said it would have been great to know me. Simply from reading my notes.
I also love it when my plumber routes the pipes around the house just for some harmless fun, and the electrician routes wires around against specs just for some harmless fun.
You are the reason why programmers cannot be engineers.
If you want to grow up, and figure out how programmers can be true engineers, go read up on the only software engineer who's certified as a PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER in Canada.
Nah. Clippy was descended from Microsoft Bob. Microsoft Bob's creator married Bill Gates and produced 2 little sprogs. So I'm not sure how this is supposed to show us failure.
100MB? Wasn't there just a/. article about some japanese company offering gigabit over fiber to the house, up and down, with phone service, for just US$60/month?
Not just that. Gates is being a real bastard again, with his monopolistic training at work. Just talk to United Way folks and ask them how they like the way Gates is trying his hands at his new monopoly of trying to be the gateway for all donations to foundations (like United Way). A fraction of a penny per transaction goes a long long way when you're the sole gateway into all philanthropy.
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Since Mr. Reyk hasn't filed suit, it's totally academic what the 'madwifi fuckers' did or did not do.
For someone who make such strong claims on being intellectually correct, this is an interesting position to take. So, in your world, as long as no suit is filed, any action taken is just "totally academic"?
If you have an axe to grind, take it up with them.
I don't really have an axe to grind. It's just two people in the madwifi group that did that "totally academic" but unethical thing. And have not apologized for it.
If, alternately, you have a thoughtful and reasoned criticism (and preferably some strong evidence for your allegations), please share it.
Umm... you did not manage to follow the original link that I had originally responded to? Would you like a signed and sealed piece of paper? Go read the link again - note that Theo was talking about the OpenHAL code. http://kerneltrap.org/mailarchive/openbsd-misc/2007/9/13/259448/thread
If you want to look for evidence, you can find it yourself. OpenBSD's CVS is open. I'm sure madwifi's repository is available too. Look at code check in dates. Make up your own mind. *big hint* OpenBSD's OpenHAL is dated a year earlier, according to 3rd party reports. Please do not let this *big hint* color your perception or conclusion. KTHXHAND
Very good. You can go take the bar exam. Meanwhile, in the real world, English is my fourth language. I'm a simple man using simple words.
So, just to double check with you - do you support or do you not support what the madwifi fuckers did with Reyk's code - specifically the reverse engineered bits?
Why else would the madwifi fuckers want to relicense reyk's code, and then steal it after a year?
Very Drool. Unfortunately you got it backwards. They had the opensource version first, since they reverse engineered it. The madwifi fuckers asked for a year for it to be re-licensed under GPL, and it was refused. So, the madwifi fuckers stole the code (any time you take someone else's code, and put your own license around it, and list yourself as the author, that's stealing).
OpenBSD does not need this code, since they already had a working copy.
Ego gratification is not sufficient justification to perform unauthorized modifications to a shipping application.
This is why programming is not ENGINEERING because too damned many people are still damned cowboys. True software engineers are few and far in between. Unfortunately, every monkey and their cousin seem to think that it's OK to call themselves that too.
That, and the fact that most idiots don't even know what the hell is an easter egg, (or another pet peeve - RAID is NOT FSCKING INDEPENDENT DRIVES YOU BLOODY MORONS, IT'S INEXPENSIVE DURING THE TIMES WHEN 20 MEGABYTE DRIVES COST THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BECAUSE MAINFRAME DRIVES COST MUCH MUCH MORE, MUCKING FORONS - SCSI WAS CONSIDERED THE *INEXPENSIVE* DRIVES)
How about predicting how a junkyard full of car parts can spontaneously, randomly become a running Ferrari or even only a Toyota automobile.
But it could, with the help of some high school kids!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/02/17/eveningnews/main1329941.shtml
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/watch-out-x-prize-contestants-these-high-school-kids-are-winners/
Not sure why I was modded funny, but read up on Melinda Gates and the project she headed before she married good 'ol Bill.
Now, what's funny was that Bill was building his $50mil house. Melinda asked to have a peek at the plans. Bill said sure. Melinda started making suggestions on modifications to the house. Bill went, "But Honey, it's already a $50mil house."
Melinda looked at Bill, and asked, "But Bill, I thought you wanted kids?"
And that is how Bill Gates ended up with a $100mil house.
Because most programmers suck. That means most who respond to this thread in a juvenile manner belong to that group.
You are *NOT* an Engineer.
Just because you have 38 years does not even make you a professional if you have an attitude like that. You're just an amateur who got lucky.
Now, this is a good easter egg (look at my other comments for my general view on easter eggs).
Easter eggs are features that are not supposed to be there, and not part of the spec, something like a flight simulator.
Your #1 are *NOT* easter eggs. It *WAS* designed to be there. Just not publicly announced. Doesn't make it an easter egg at all.
Obviously there are plenty of reasons why code sucks. Uptight stupid people is one of them. Damned cowboys is another one. People who write "clever code" instead of well documented and clear code is yet another.
But we're not talking about code that sucks, we're talking about the damned cowboy attitude.
If you really want to improve yourself, head on over to the Software Engineering Institute and look at what they do. It's started by the guy who IBM brought in to stop the mainframes from crashing - the reputation for stability wasn't there in the beginning. IBM brought this guy in to stop it. All he did on day is is two things. One, stop all software going out. Two, everyone who wanted to ship something to the customer had to put together a one page description of what the software does - description, not even justification!!!
Think about it.
I understand the need to post anonymously. I am saddened by the need to. Stupid mods need to have their mod points stripped away.
*WRONG* You guys are the reasons why software sucks in general, the damned cowboy attitudes. Professional developers leave the need to "leave their mark" at home. You're not a fucking dog needing to pee on a tree to show "your mark".
If I want to personally sign things I do so in the comments. While most of mine are direct and to the point there is generally some humor in them and personal touches. It is one place I feel fairly confident that it will not hurt anything else and the reality is that this is the only place anyone is really going to have any idea that the easter egg is actually yours.
Exactly. It was pretty interesting to have that happen to me. I had left a previous place. A couple of years later, my friend told me that the guy who inherited my crap was going through my documentation, looked up after reading for a while, and said it would have been great to know me. Simply from reading my notes.
Made me feel quite good for a while :)
If you can add an Easter Egg without changing any code paths, then your Easter Egg is a NOP, and I'm not sure why you would bother.
And try to convince me that a flight simulator in your project is a good thing, why won't you?
Oh well. At least I have karma to burn :) But yeah, there's a lot of damned clueless people running around.
I also love it when my plumber routes the pipes around the house just for some harmless fun, and the electrician routes wires around against specs just for some harmless fun.
You are the reason why programmers cannot be engineers.
If you want to grow up, and figure out how programmers can be true engineers, go read up on the only software engineer who's certified as a PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER in Canada.
Nah. Clippy was descended from Microsoft Bob. Microsoft Bob's creator married Bill Gates and produced 2 little sprogs. So I'm not sure how this is supposed to show us failure.
That's just a hidden copyright message. How the hell is that an Easter Egg? Why are there so many clueless newbies around?!
It's attitudes like this that leads to Grandmas Gone Wild.
100MB? Wasn't there just a /. article about some japanese company offering gigabit over fiber to the house, up and down, with phone service, for just US$60/month?
Not just that. Gates is being a real bastard again, with his monopolistic training at work. Just talk to United Way folks and ask them how they like the way Gates is trying his hands at his new monopoly of trying to be the gateway for all donations to foundations (like United Way). A fraction of a penny per transaction goes a long long way when you're the sole gateway into all philanthropy.
Flamebait huh. I guess you support making excuses for stupid people. I'm sorry, mentally challenged people.
No wonder the world sucks.
Which part of Do It Right The First Time class did you miss?
And if you want to continue to drive cars without brakes, I could care less. Go buy the Microsoft car all day long.
However, if another car manufacturer comes along and sells cars without brakes, I'm going to bitch at them all day long.
Or put it another way - there are still banks with login pages that are not behind https. SO FUCKING WHAT? SHOULD WE SAY HTTPS SHOULD BE DEPRECATED?!
Making excuses for stupid people is what gets us into trouble. STOP DOING THAT.