So... "People seem to like it the other way around"? Nope not everyone does.
Call it a cultural difference, call it a difference in what people are used to, call it whatever you want.
Personally, I think its a difference related to language, and the way language causes the brain to order things.
Chinese sentence patterns, ie. word order, is different than English. This word order causes the brain to organize things in a certain way.
I'm reaching, stretching, and generalizing, but I think postal addresses are a fine example of one difference between the US/British culture and the Chinese culture. And, this cultural difference is directly related to the different way that the lanaguages organize things, and therefore the way that the native speakers mentally organize things.
Back to original point, before I ramble more... "People" don't seem to like it that way... "Western people" do.
I seem to remember seeing it on an "abandware" site a little while ago, but now that I'm looking for it, I can't find it.
For what it's worth... My level 13 Human Priest in ADOM just died about 10 minutes ago. Decided to grab a beer and check slashdot. After seeing this thread... Back to ADOM.
Mainland China has been consistent in it's "One China" policy. The majority of the world adhere's to this policy. The current leader of Taiwan has made recent statements that he will disregard/disband Taiwan's current policy (which basically agrees to the status quo).
Seems to me that Taiwan (not the country, just the leader) is stirring things up more than the Mainland is.
Re: China is Imperialist
Are you REALLY worried that China is going to invade the US? Are you REALLY? Wh the hell would China want to even try to take over the US? China has enought to deal with now. If you don't care about the US in Iraq, why do you care about China in Tibet? Is it because its easier to complain about "them" than "ourself"?
Re: Kid vs Tank
It's a different China now. Seriously. China, the country, is evolving the way the internet does. FAST. China 10/20/30 years ago is not the same as China now.
My suggestions:
Let China make the things that the US buys. Otherwise, the US will have to make the stuff itself. America won't do it.
Let China "grow up" economically. Isn't this what the US says will make counties freer, more prosperous, and more democratic?
US citizens should learn to speak more than English. EVERYONE speaks English + their native language. Americans speak English. Who is a more desirable employee in a global economy?
Obvious troll, but I'll throw out a cookie nonetheless...
You ask for facts from me. Let me ask you for the same.
I see no "facts" in your original post.
Do I really need to provide links to the reality of wiretapping, or the non-speedy trials, or the lack of WMDs which were the original excuse for the Iraq fiasco, or the use of Halliurton as an "agency" of the US government?
I suggest that if you require these links from me because you cannot find them for yourself, you are: 1) A troll, or 2) Hopelessly uninformed, or 3) Hopelessly clueless, or 4) A hopelessly, clueless government spy type dude
I'm going to decide upon troll, and quit talking to you now. This is only option that won't cause me shudder at the lack of hope for the future.
If, on the off chance, you really DO believe that Bush is correct in the way he has led the US, and that the US is right in its current actions, then I'm sorry. We have no common base from which to continue the conversation. And, I'm going to go into a fetal position and ask myself, "Where the fuck did this shithead come from?"
Come on, people. Fix the US, THEN worry about fixing China.
If you want to complain about other countries, complain about N Korea, Iran, or 50 other places. China isn't acting belligerant or saying belligerant things. Why focus on it?
Do you NEED a new, big menace? No more USSR, so let's choose China? Is that the deal?
Is a lot of small menaces too hard to deal with? And, that's why you invent one big one?
Try moving overseas and living in a country where you are the minority. You will then be able to understand what the minorities in the U.S. have gone through.e nioc
I tried this.
I'm your basic white guy of Russian/Greek/Irish descent. I live in Beijing.
People couldn't be nicer. Sometimes, children call me "Uncle". (It's a term of respect for someone your father's age.)
Occassionaly, I do get "looked at" (stared at) longer than if I was Chinese. But, I suspect this is because of 2 things:
1) My dazzling good looks.
2) I live and work in parts of the city that don't have many white folks (the SE and SW). Most white folks tend to be in the N and NW and/or at the tourist spots. I'd probably be stared at longer/harder if I walked through Harlem or the barrios of LA.
I don't know what the lesson here is. Just thought I'd mention it.
"Admining Admins" has got to measure somewhere near "Smelling Armpits" on the "Vocational Desirability Scale".
I've been a Product Manager, a Project Manager, and "The Guy With No Defined Duties, But Whose Job It Is To Make Sure This Stuff Works In The Way That Future Customers Might Expect It To Work".
So, with the experience noted above, my advice would be...
-Talk to the Admins. -Explain that your job is to make their job easier. -Your job is to run interference between them and whatever is above you/them. -Your Admins bitch and moan to you. You "suggest" to the PHBs. -Your job is to say "No" to the higher-ups in whatever language they can comprehend. -Your job is to say "No" to the Admins in whatever language they can comprehend. -Your Admins can do their jobs. Your job is to prevent anything from stopping them from actually doing it. -Your job is to tell your Admins why X is better than Y from a corporate perspective, even if they want Y (or Z).
Your title may be "SysAdmin", but guess what? You are now a "Manager".
Reading parent was refreshing. Finally a comment about China from someone that actually lives in China. (Hong Kong isn't quite "mainland", but close enough.)
It's easy to take the moral high ground when you have no connection to the topic geographically/culturally/financially/linguistical ly.
Morals are great. Everyone should have them. BUT, morals need to be applied in real life. Sometimes you have to choose your battles. Sometimes it's better to change things from the inside, rather than beat on the door from the outside. Ever think that this is what Google et al. are trying to do? Get the foot in the door, so to speak. (Is that enough cliches for one paragraph?)
People are bashing Google for dealing with the Chinese government's policies. What about Budweiser, Corona, Herbal Essences shampoo, Cadillac, Volkswagon, BMW, Mercedes, and Tide laundry detergent? All of these products are available in China. The companies are dealing with the government (and likely bending their morals) to some extent or another. Why not bash these companies as well?
For what it's worth... I am an American that lives in Beijing. I am not an "apologist" for China or for Google, but I do think people should try to put themselves in the position of the person/organization before they proceed to criticize.
Criticize China for its internet cops, but only if you are willing to criticize the Patriot Act at the same time.
--- Sigh... I realize I'm probably just whispering at the wind, but I thought I would try anyway.
Windows Vista Starter (designed to combat piracy of Windows overseas; probably won't go on sale in US)
Windows Vista Home Basic
Windows Vista Home Premium
Windows Vista Business Basic
Windows Vista Business Premium
Windows Vista Corporate Basic
Windows Vista Corporate Premium
Windows Vista Ultimate
------
I guarantee that "Ultimate" version of Vista will be easily available in Asia within no time at all.
The "Starter" edition will only be available on the free machines that MS gives away to the remote regions.
The hyper-marts in Beijing, for example, will have it for 80RMB give or take. (80RMB is $10USD, btw.)
/. Oh yeah... I live in Beijing. //. Not an expert. But, I know what I see. //.. And before you get too excited, and decide to fly to China to pick up a bunch of stuff... You have to be China-native to get these prices. Or, have a Chinese friend buy for you. ///.. You could always be the "obnoxious foreigner" that speaks Chinese. That works too. Of course, that takes actual work. Better just to use your friends copy. That's still possible, isn't it?
What parent said is true. American sexual mores ARE deeply rooted and influenced by our Puritan forefathers. Americans ARE prudes. (Publicly, at least.)
FYI.... '±' is the chinese character for "scholar".
-Lets consider that there are 1.3 billion Chinese. -Let's assume that.3 billion of them are literate enough to recognize the character. (Might be lower, probably higher.)
So... -Take.3 billion Chinese using the '±' character an average of once a year. -Add the 4 Americans using the '±' character when they discuss baseball -Multiply by your $50 USD per use
= You are a friggin kuai-ionnaire!!!!
Good luck collecting in China though. (The odds say,.... Odds are...., Statistically speaking... Your still poor.)
Sorry to reply to myself, but I forgot to mention....
-"Product" contracts with the government are different than "service" contracts.
If I remember correctly, Schedule 70 is for "product". I must assume that MySQL includes service with the product, or they also have a service contract.
If they have a service contract "in addition to" the product contract, then I assume that the service one will be the bigger moneymaker, and therefore should really have been the main point of the story.
Slashdot Mirror
I would be very disappointed if a Microsoft-Apple merged company wasn't called "Micrapple".
kenn...
qing3wen4, ni3 zai4 nar3 zhu4?
Wo3 zai4 Bei3jing4 zhu4.
3/25/06 = 3-25-06 ... same thing.
Americans use both.
You will find some people (like myself) that switch back and forth without reason.
Nowdays though, I am using the 2006.03.25 format more. "When in Rome..."
For what its worth....
China does postal addresses in the big->to->small format.
Example:
US Style is--
123 China Lane, Apt 4
Beijing, China 12345
China Style is --
Beijing (city), Chaoyang Qu (district)
Panjiayuan (neighborhood)
SongYuXiLi (community)
123-987 (building # - apt #)
postal code
So... "People seem to like it the other way around"? Nope not everyone does.
Call it a cultural difference, call it a difference in what people are used to, call it whatever you want.
Personally, I think its a difference related to language, and the way language causes the brain to order things.
Chinese sentence patterns, ie. word order, is different than English. This word order causes the brain to organize things in a certain way.
I'm reaching, stretching, and generalizing, but I think postal addresses are a fine example of one difference between the US/British culture and the Chinese culture. And, this cultural difference is directly related to the different way that the lanaguages organize things, and therefore the way that the native speakers mentally organize things.
Back to original point, before I ramble more... "People" don't seem to like it that way... "Western people" do.
I loved Bards Tale.
I seem to remember seeing it on an "abandware" site a little while ago, but now that I'm looking for it, I can't find it.
For what it's worth... My level 13 Human Priest in ADOM just died about 10 minutes ago. Decided to grab a beer and check slashdot. After seeing this thread... Back to ADOM.
FBI + No Email = Lot's of spam for people
FBI + Email = Finally some real results against spam?
----
Re: Taiwan
Mainland China has been consistent in it's "One China" policy. The majority of the world adhere's to this policy. The current leader of Taiwan has made recent statements that he will disregard/disband Taiwan's current policy (which basically agrees to the status quo).
Seems to me that Taiwan (not the country, just the leader) is stirring things up more than the Mainland is.
Re: China is Imperialist
Are you REALLY worried that China is going to invade the US? Are you REALLY? Wh the hell would China want to even try to take over the US? China has enought to deal with now. If you don't care about the US in Iraq, why do you care about China in Tibet? Is it because its easier to complain about "them" than "ourself"?
Re: Kid vs Tank
It's a different China now. Seriously. China, the country, is evolving the way the internet does. FAST. China 10/20/30 years ago is not the same as China now.
My suggestions:
Let China make the things that the US buys. Otherwise, the US will have to make the stuff itself. America won't do it.
Let China "grow up" economically. Isn't this what the US says will make counties freer, more prosperous, and more democratic?
US citizens should learn to speak more than English. EVERYONE speaks English + their native language. Americans speak English. Who is a more desirable employee in a global economy?
Fix the US. Then worry about China.
Obvious troll, but I'll throw out a cookie nonetheless...
You ask for facts from me. Let me ask you for the same.
I see no "facts" in your original post.
Do I really need to provide links to the reality of wiretapping, or the non-speedy trials, or the lack of WMDs which were the original excuse for the Iraq fiasco, or the use of Halliurton as an "agency" of the US government?
I suggest that if you require these links from me because you cannot find them for yourself, you are:
1) A troll, or
2) Hopelessly uninformed, or
3) Hopelessly clueless, or
4) A hopelessly, clueless government spy type dude
I'm going to decide upon troll, and quit talking to you now. This is only option that won't cause me shudder at the lack of hope for the future.
If, on the off chance, you really DO believe that Bush is correct in the way he has led the US, and that the US is right in its current actions, then I'm sorry. We have no common base from which to continue the conversation. And, I'm going to go into a fetal position and ask myself, "Where the fuck did this shithead come from?"
Here we go again with the anti-China stuff...
"Shiny! Shiny! Looky there! Shiny!"
Come on, people. Fix the US, THEN worry about fixing China.
If you want to complain about other countries, complain about N Korea, Iran, or 50 other places. China isn't acting belligerant or saying belligerant things. Why focus on it?
Do you NEED a new, big menace? No more USSR, so let's choose China? Is that the deal?
Is a lot of small menaces too hard to deal with? And, that's why you invent one big one?
The government doesn't do wiretaps.
It doesn't hold people without a trial.
It doesn't start a war without obvious cause.
It doesn't enrich the friends of the politicians.
Oooh.. Looky Looky! Look at that shiny thing over THERE.
Try moving overseas and living in a country where you are the minority. You will then be able to understand what the minorities in the U.S. have gone through.e nioc
I tried this.
I'm your basic white guy of Russian/Greek/Irish descent. I live in Beijing.
People couldn't be nicer. Sometimes, children call me "Uncle". (It's a term of respect for someone your father's age.)
Occassionaly, I do get "looked at" (stared at) longer than if I was Chinese. But, I suspect this is because of 2 things:
1) My dazzling good looks.
2) I live and work in parts of the city that don't have many white folks (the SE and SW). Most white folks tend to be in the N and NW and/or at the tourist spots. I'd probably be stared at longer/harder if I walked through Harlem or the barrios of LA.
I don't know what the lesson here is. Just thought I'd mention it.
In other news...
Free music downloads reached 80 bajillion last week. Music companies are rich, complaining, putting out crappy stuff like Coldplay.
Have to agree with the parent.
"Admining Admins" has got to measure somewhere near "Smelling Armpits" on the "Vocational Desirability Scale".
I've been a Product Manager, a Project Manager, and "The Guy With No Defined Duties, But Whose Job It Is To Make Sure This Stuff Works In The Way That Future Customers Might Expect It To Work".
So, with the experience noted above, my advice would be...
-Talk to the Admins.
-Explain that your job is to make their job easier.
-Your job is to run interference between them and whatever is above you/them.
-Your Admins bitch and moan to you. You "suggest" to the PHBs.
-Your job is to say "No" to the higher-ups in whatever language they can comprehend.
-Your job is to say "No" to the Admins in whatever language they can comprehend.
-Your Admins can do their jobs. Your job is to prevent anything from stopping them from actually doing it.
-Your job is to tell your Admins why X is better than Y from a corporate perspective, even if they want Y (or Z).
Your title may be "SysAdmin", but guess what? You are now a "Manager".
Reading parent was refreshing. Finally a comment about China from someone that actually lives in China. (Hong Kong isn't quite "mainland", but close enough.)
l ly.
It's easy to take the moral high ground when you have no connection to the topic geographically/culturally/financially/linguistica
Morals are great. Everyone should have them. BUT, morals need to be applied in real life. Sometimes you have to choose your battles. Sometimes it's better to change things from the inside, rather than beat on the door from the outside. Ever think that this is what Google et al. are trying to do? Get the foot in the door, so to speak. (Is that enough cliches for one paragraph?)
People are bashing Google for dealing with the Chinese government's policies. What about Budweiser, Corona, Herbal Essences shampoo, Cadillac, Volkswagon, BMW, Mercedes, and Tide laundry detergent? All of these products are available in China. The companies are dealing with the government (and likely bending their morals) to some extent or another. Why not bash these companies as well?
For what it's worth... I am an American that lives in Beijing. I am not an "apologist" for China or for Google, but I do think people should try to put themselves in the position of the person/organization before they proceed to criticize.
Criticize China for its internet cops, but only if you are willing to criticize the Patriot Act at the same time.
---
Sigh... I realize I'm probably just whispering at the wind, but I thought I would try anyway.
Ugh. Eight different versions.
/. Oh yeah... I live in Beijing.
//. Not an expert. But, I know what I see.
//.. And before you get too excited, and decide to fly to China to pick up a bunch of stuff... You have to be China-native to get these prices. Or, have a Chinese friend buy for you.
///.. You could always be the "obnoxious foreigner" that speaks Chinese. That works too. Of course, that takes actual work. Better just to use your friends copy. That's still possible, isn't it?
Windows Vista Starter (designed to combat piracy of Windows overseas; probably won't go on sale in US)
Windows Vista Home Basic
Windows Vista Home Premium
Windows Vista Business Basic
Windows Vista Business Premium
Windows Vista Corporate Basic
Windows Vista Corporate Premium
Windows Vista Ultimate
------
I guarantee that "Ultimate" version of Vista will be easily available in Asia within no time at all.
The "Starter" edition will only be available on the free machines that MS gives away to the remote regions.
The hyper-marts in Beijing, for example, will have it for 80RMB give or take. (80RMB is $10USD, btw.)
I'm in China. I get my news the old fashioned way... Slashdot.
(And various proxies).
$100 per correct answer?
-Google
-Microsoft
-China
-Saudi Arabia
-Iran
-North Korea
-Every other country in the world, to some extent or another.
----
Minus $100 for every OBVIOUS answer?
Where do I send the check?
----
M
The parent is a very large post, which means its probably very interesting.
I noticed that Einstein and Max Planck were mentioned, so its probably interesting AND informative.
However, I'll never know.
Something that large with no paragraph breaks?
Sorry.
Nicely said. Swift is chortling.
Fair point.
I'll return to my hole now.
Submitter and Editor should be ashamed. Here 'tis
Why is this flamebait?
What parent said is true. American sexual mores ARE deeply rooted and influenced by our Puritan forefathers. Americans ARE prudes. (Publicly, at least.)
Have mod points, and would have given an Insightful to parent if he hadn't been AC.
FYI.... '±' is the chinese character for "scholar".
.3 billion of them are literate enough to recognize the character. (Might be lower, probably higher.)
.3 billion Chinese using the '±' character an average of once a year.
.... Odds are...., Statistically speaking... Your still poor.)
-Lets consider that there are 1.3 billion Chinese.
-Let's assume that
So...
-Take
-Add the 4 Americans using the '±' character when they discuss baseball
-Multiply by your $50 USD per use
= You are a friggin kuai-ionnaire!!!!
Good luck collecting in China though. (The odds say,
Sorry to reply to myself, but I forgot to mention....
-"Product" contracts with the government are different than "service" contracts.
If I remember correctly, Schedule 70 is for "product". I must assume that MySQL includes service with the product, or they also have a service contract.
If they have a service contract "in addition to" the product contract, then I assume that the service one will be the bigger moneymaker, and therefore should really have been the main point of the story.