Slashdot Mirror
1001 Islamic Inventions
pev writes "There's a new traveling exhibition in the UK entitled 1001 inventions. It contains some of the most interesting inventions from the past few thousand years. The common theme, however, is that they all came from the Islamic world and not the west. In some cases [the list is] quite surprising. For the lazy, the Independent newspaper in the UK printed their top 20 from the exhibition."
Mohammed lived a few hundred years after Jesus, so the Islam can never be more than 1.5 thousand years old!
-- Cheers!
"By the 15th century they had invented both a rocket, which they called a "self-moving and combusting egg", and a torpedo - a self-propelled pear-shaped bomb with a spear at the front which impaled itself in enemy ships and then blew up."
Now introducing the new and improved vest o' dynamite model!!
Is the Burqa on the list?
"Party happy long time boom boom belt" is in the top 20, right?
I know it's a knee-jerk comment, and no I didn't RTFA but isn't it funny how the main function of western media is to condense everything to top-10 type lists to accommodate shrinking attention-spans?
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.
Remember we owe the "Algorithm" to a dude who was writing 'programs' 800 years before Ada Loveleace and Alan Turing were about.
Yes their mixing skills are limited to chemical weapons and bomb making. For a religion that requires the death of all non-believers it amuses me people are still humouring this dangerous religion. Not that Bush and his group of fundamentalists are any better. Religion should be banned... except for the church of Star Trek, that one's OK.
. . . when a group of people lets all of their scientific achievements throughout history become overshadowed by religious fundamentalism. Let's hope we don't end up going down the same route here in the States.
(It's even more sad when I have to post anonymously for fear that people who disagree with my post might interpret it to be against their version of Islam and harm myself and my family).
Nothing on the list came from after 1300 CE/AD. What does that tell you?
Rank my idea: http://www.sinceslicedbread.com/node/531
That's hilarious that they had this to say:
Baghdad international airport and a crater on the Moon are named after him.
about the muslim who attempted to build a flying machine.
...spike
Ewwwwww, coconut...
This letter that was sent in response to HPs CEO in late September of 2001 would disagree with this, and it has a lot of sources to back it up. Check it out here http://www.ninevehsoft.com/fiorina.htm
Those inventions were created by people, not by Islam. Islam is merely a religion, and hence useless and incapable of anything at except stroking peoples emotions (for good or bad).
Those are human inventions.
Odd that the person who submitted this is surprised that the inventions are from the Islamic world. Anyone who knows anything about the history of the regions whose inventions are included here knows there were a lot of innovations created in the first 500-600 years after the founding of Islam.
The problem is that such inventiveness and scholarly pursuits largely stopped/stagnated as Muslim countries and culture turned inward.
Everything on the top-20 list comes from antiquity. So tell me, what great things did the muslim world invent more recently than, say, 1950 ?
Would I gain or lose karma by pointing out that the most recent of the top 20 was from 1724?
The ability to self-reflect is so important to science. When wondering inspires to think free without any form of ethical norm, science will flourish. These days it's hard to see the Islamitic countries (Except the Turks), with a lot of self reflection. Religion, and dictatorish leaders clearly don't inspire to modern scientific achievements. To me it looks as if these countries are too busy with tring to win some ego due the domination of the culture from the west. So on what moment in history? In the medieval ages a lot of western countries had the same problem. A lot of modern thoughts were forgotten because of the long domination of a fundamentalistic Christianism.
My work here is dung.
Magic Lamp
(rimshot)
Reviews with a twist! http://www.sardonicbastard.com
Did muslims invent suicide bombings? I'm all for the suicide part.
To sum this up, even if myth is treated as fact, the Muslim world has accomplished essentially nothing in the last 500 years. I'd regard this as less "surprising" than depressing.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
There's no way to say this without sounding racist/sexist/homophobic, but I wonder if I'll live to see the day when it's considered "acceptable" to be proud of straight, male, caucasian heritage. That's not to say I think there's anything to be proud of, but rather that it's interesting how we have all these parades, celebrations, "history" months, and special exhibits for the accomplishments of all the various configurations of gender, race, and religion, except straight, white, Christian male. The truth, of course, is that the vast majority of all historical accomplishments were achieved by straight, white, Christian males. However, it's considered inappropriate to acknowledge the elephant in the room.
The irony is that while I find it both interesting and disappointing that society continues to congratulate everyone else for the advances and achievements of their respective genders and races, I find it simultaneously hollow and pointless. How can you be proud of something someone else did, when the only thing(s) you have in common with those people are physical/geographical attributes over which you had no control anyway? How can you be proud of something you had no control over? Am I proud to be "white?" Not at all. It required no effort on my part, thus it can hardly be considered an "accomplishment."
Nevertheless, people will continue to congratulate each other over such arbitrary attributes, while straight white males stand at the sidelines with their mouths shut, lest they be considered racist, sexist, homophobic, or just generally discriminatory.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
I don't know why the word "Islamic" is attached to this article.
Just like terrorism isn't "Islamic", these inventions aren't necessarily Islamic either.
The religion of the inventor had nothing to do with these inventions.
ARABIC, and not ISLAMIC inventions?
Chekov: I thought zese vere all WRussian inventions?
Arab/Muslim societies produced some fantastic engineering in their day, much of which is described in the dry but quite informative A History of Engineering in Classical and Medieval Times.
For reasons that I don't understand, the Christian and Muslim worlds seem to have flip-flopped regarding the dominance of religion vs. rational thought somewhere in the past 200-500 years. Of course this is a great over-simplification, but it's worth remembering that there was a time when the Arab world was the center of learning and enlightenment in the non-eastern-Asian world (I phrase it like that b/c I don't want to flamebait the Indians or Chinese).
Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
The suicide bomber - what in the world would we do with out them.
Next I want to know how many things were invented by blond people, "Frasier" fans, the left-handed, and people named "Al."
I looked over the sites, and i find something intresting: The complete lack of any modern innovations. This project has completely backfired, instead of trying to promote Islamic society, it has proven the harsh reality that the middle-east is centeries behind the developed world.
Well, they invented suicide bombers. Sure you'll say that the japanse did that in WW2 - but they needed planes. And the Japanese didn't think to blow up school kids.
Another invention is combination commercial airliner and world trade center doomsday device.
If these guys don't have the patent on terrorism - they at least have sure as hell secured the distribution rights worldwide.
I find it upsetting to see that the liberalism, the intelligence, the artwork, etc.. has taken a downward spiral in recent years, instead of striving for more.
That said, I think Muslims who emmigrate to the United States generally are representative of those who are more liberal, hard working, and smarter than ever before. Too bad the billion other Muslims in the world overshadow any successes that modern adapted Muslims have made.
This list is nice, but I think 'people' created them... not Muslims. The more we introduce Muslims as a separate class of people the more they will want us to give them preferential treatment. We are blowing you up for oil, not your religion. Dammit.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
The moslems only attacked Persia in 638. It seems to me that at least one of these inventions have nothing to do with Islam.
Berry-boiling sheep herders notwithstanding, nobody "invented" coffee, but merely discovered it.
That's like saying a prospector digging for gold invented oil.
Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever.
Also, they state that when they die they'll go to heaven and have 42 virgins.
I say, "Fuck That!" I want heaven to be filled with power tools, non-stop lumber, concrete, cars, computers, and all the tools I can use for eternity! And a really slutty chick who'll do ANYTHING!
Where the fuck am I going to have time to do 42 virgins, who don't know what the fuck they're doing and who probably want to "talk" after words?!? No Fucking Way!
Tools and sluts for me!!
Oh yeah! A really big fucking screened TV with every fucking channel - including non-stop pron!
Saturday is April 1. Slashdot will be shut down. Sorry for the inconvenience.
While it is difficult to spot exactly where the islamic fate starts in history most people seem to assume it starts with the prophet Muhammad.
Who came a good 700 years after Jesus Christ who himself came from a fate even older. If you go back several thousand years the only bible fate around that is still around (as far as I know) are the Jews.
Wich means that most of the inventions claimed here are in fact not made by muslims but either by their predecessors (christians or jews) OR one of the many other fates that used to exist in the world.
It always suprises me when people talk about the rich history of the middle east and attribute it to Islam when in fact islam had next to nothing to do with it. Just check islamic attitudes to the great pyramids.
When an article already makes a basic mistake by attributing achievements to a fate that happened hundreds of years earlier I smell propoganda. Would be like attributing the Great Wall to the Chinese Communist Party.
Same region, same ethnic people but totally different nonetheless.
Basically this whole things sound to me like, thousands of years ago when the world was totally different some guy invented a thing wich was kinda of usefull so now a whole group of religious freaks must be liked despite the fact that everything they say and do is exactly against the believes of that guy thousands of years ago.
No thanks. I just judge muslims by the ones I meet in daily life.
My greatest problem with the muslims in general is that they never seem to have heard of the saying "what is good for the goose is good for the gander" (what goes for you goes for me). Take the recent riots over those danish cartoons. Arab media have spouted hate for decades but that is alright. One rule for the muslims, another for the rest of the world. No thank you.
The only thing I know that in holland a mere 3-4% of the population seems to be in the news 80% of the time. You can turn on the tv without some program about them. Enough already.
Oh, and those who think that hatred against muslims is extreme right. Consider this. What do nazi's hate? Homosexuals, equal rights for women, jews, etc. What do muslims hate?
Those lefties defending muslims bashing gays and supressing womens mystify me. Sometimes the enemy of your enemy is your enemy as well. Just because your against Bush doesn't mean you have to be pro muslim.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
From TFA: By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere. The proof, said astronomer Ibn Hazm, "is that the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth". It was 500 years before that realisation dawned on Galileo.
The fact that the Earth was round (contrary to popular belief) was not big news in the 9th century. The ancient Greeks knew very well that the Earth was a sphere, and they too had calculated the circumference with surprising accuracy several centuries B.C. (not to mention before Mohammed). Also Galileo wasn't controversial because he claimed the Earth was round - it was because he claimed that the Earth revolved around the sun, and not vice versa. Sigh.
Nothing on the list came from after 1300 CE/AD.
Actually, the article mentions military uses of gunpowder (including the making of torpedos and missles in the 15th century), vaccination brought from Istanbul in 1724 (including the use of cowpox to fight smallpox 50 years before the West) and the creation of coffee in 1650.
No text
and is it just me, or is the site design at the main site (1001 inventions) absolutely horrible? I took a quick browse and couldn't find anything besides basic intros to the each main category. Obviously a good GUI wasn't an Islamic Invention :P.
This article is a lot of propaganda. By Muslim world I assume they mean the middle east, because the Muslim religion did not exist in a large part of that area until 630AD, when they began their conquest of that area of the world. The article @ http://www.ninevehsoft.com/fiorina.htm is a letter that was written to HPs CEO in late September 2001 in response to a speech she had delivered. To sum it up, muslims have not invented anything of major importance, they have stolen it from the communities and cultures that they have wiped from the face of the earth. Once a community is assimilated (through imposed government), all innovation in that community appears to cease.
At #18, the Guardian notes that by the 9th century Muslim astronomers knew the Earth was round and had measured the circumference. The writer conveniently omits to mention that more than a thousand years before, the greek philosopher Eratosthenese has already done that. Certainly Muslim astronomy of the 9th century was far more advanced than European astronomy of the same time, but this article smacks to me of an attempt to say "everything was invented by a Islam". This is strengthed by #14 where they say "the zero was invented in India, but we use arabic numerals". I submit that the shape of the numerals is not very important, while the decimal notation and especially the concept of zero are the major invention here.
Ah, arrogance and stupidity, all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari
As a proud gun toting American bent on revenge for 911, I submit that we should all boycot the use of soap, chess, or writing with pens.
We'll teach those damned muslims!!
For one it is yet another misleading headline, briefly checking in TFA those inventions came later than Mahomet.
... to some religion, especially as these articles do not seem to cover other culture and civilization aspects and influences at all.
However it doesn't make sense to me to associate those inventions from Arabs, Persians, Ottomans,
It's just about a book with fancy colours illustrating inventions from parts of the world where Islam is the main religion now.
I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
The government invented by the Prophet was pretty progressive for the times and thus helped Islamic society(ies) advance then. Eventually, the European world has caught up with something even better, however, and — unbound by the scripture in that regard — was able to take advantage of it.
This — the insistance on the letter of the Sharia law — is what really handicaps some Islamic countries, IMHO. Some of them (like Indonesia) seem to have found a way to get out of this shackles, so there is hope yet...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
...as much as the next person. But this exhibition is ridiculous. Herdsment from the desert conquer the civilized world and take credit for civilization. OK OK
What have they done for us lately?
This post was a joke, right?
We're supposed to take propaganda from FSTC Ltd / MuslimHeritage.com at face value in this day and age?
This reminds me of Pavel Chekhov's Vee inWented it Furst line.
The Independent is not - they're kowtowing in dhimmitude.
From their list:
/ eratos1.html
18) By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere. The proof, said astronomer Ibn Hazm, "is that the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth". It was 500 years before that realisation dawned on Galileo. The calculations of Muslim astronomers were so accurate that in the 9th century they reckoned the Earth's circumference to be 40,253.4km - less than 200km out. The scholar al-Idrisi took a globe depicting the world to the court of King Roger of Sicily in 1139.
But as I understand it, the Egyptian Eratosthenes had discovered this same thing 11 centuries earlier:
http://outreach.as.utexas.edu/marykay/assignments
Galileo was responsible for many great discoveries, but I've never seen anyone claim that he discovered the Earth was round. Many argue that a round world was common knowledge in Europe, despite what their maps might make us believe.
I'm very doubtful of the claim that the term "camera obscura" comes from an Arabic word "qamara", since it is a Latin phrase meaning "dark chamber", and the Latin word comes from the Greek "kamara".
Your analogy is totally false.
The beverage "coffee" doesn't occur naturally in nature, any more than Coca-Cola or beer. Anything that required human manipulation/invention to produce could be said to be "invented."
No one "discovered" or "invented" milk -- but they did invent cheese, yoghurt and ice cream made from it.
In the Muslim mythology, Ishmael is the legendary ancestor of all Arabs, like Isaac is the legendary ancestor of... well, of Jacob, who's the legendary ancestor of all Jews. And yes, this conflates religion and ethnicity, but I suppose it wasn't such a problem back in the day.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
The suicide vest
and
vortex of shame and self-loathing
Islam is spread by the sword (or the AK-47/74/M).
The majority of these "inventions" have been shown to be captured technology. That is, technology captured by the Jihadists. After being introduced to Europe, which as we all know is the Cradle of All Life and Knowledge, the inventions have been attributed to Muslims...and not the conquered kaffir.
The numbers actually came from India. The chess, as the article notes, came from India; after it had been invaded, and the peaceful Hindus enslaved by the Muslims.
Washing and bathing are not religious requirements for Muslims. In fact, the fundamentalist madrassas teach their students not to bathe. The "requirement" came from the Arab/Persian/Muslim royality, who have traditionally held themselves aloof from the Islamic faith.
The "windmill" dates back to pre-BC China and Mongolia. Strangely enough, the Muslims had Spread Islam by the Sword to those areas, about the time they were "introduced" to Europe.
They are all ARABIC inventions not ISLAMIC. All Arabs are not muslims and all muslims are not arabs.
The fact that the MAJORITY of the Earth's population was centered in that region during the time period the article uses???
I love how one can use data to shape any point they wish to make. Hang the author for submitting flamebait trash.
Opinion:=TMyOpinion.Create(Me);
Has didn't make the top 10? Or assassination?
What kind of list is this that forgets Hassan i Sabbah?
The opposite of progress is congress
Nothing on the list came from after 1300 CE/AD. What does that tell you?
I wasn't around then, but for the last few years they've been busy trying to reinvent electricity since they only have it for an hour a day in some places.
It's seventy-two houris, according to the Hadith (kinda like the Islamic Talmud--commentary that they take quite seriously, but it's not The Book). On the other hand, "houri" might mean "white raisin" or "juicy fruit". So it's really a hilarious toss-up.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
were actually dhimmis or slaves....
The al-jabr operation is subtracting a quantity from one side of the equation and adding it to another.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I understand that a great many things we use today came from the muslim and arab cultures. That's great, it really is. But it also goes to illustrate exactly how much a religion can suppress the technological and socialogical development of people. It has been shown time and time again that where people are the most religious/superstitious, human development slows, stops or even rolls backward.
Still, knowing the history and origin of many things are pretty interesting trivia. I had some feeling about Turkey's contribution to coffee, but I didn't know it went back that far... and the soap thing? I'm sorry, but when I was working at the airport, I found myself wondering about it... seriously.
welcome our scientifically hyper-advanced islamic overlords! Allah Akbar!
----- There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend; those with loaded guns, and those who dig.
Oh, yeah? Well, if he invented coffee, why didn't he patent it and create the CIAA (Coffee Inventors Actors Association), huh? Huh? Answer that one, smarty-pants! Oh, wait....
Ignorance is curable, stupid is forever.
I note a trend: the Arabs, perhaps because of their geographic location at the crossroads of the East and West, are bound to discover many new and exciting ideas and teaching from their neighbors. They were in pretty good company (Greco-Roman thoughts to the West, Indian thoughts to the East) so they are bound to pick up something.
Those inventions were created by people, not by Islam. Islam is merely a religion, and hence useless and incapable of anything at except stroking peoples emotions (for good or bad).
Yet the relative social order and stability brought about by the Baghdad caliphate was sufficient to allow some branches of science advance. That order ended with the Abbasid dynasty in 1200's with the Mongol invasions. Since then much of the middle east has been a backwater. The Sharia no longer serves Muslim civilization well.
an ill wind that blows no good
Everything on the top-20 list comes from antiquity. So tell me, what great things did the muslim world invent more recently than, say, 1950 ?
1. Explosive vests.
2. Suicide-bomber masks.
3. Slingshots.
4. Terrorist-filled airliners.
5. New rapid-beheading techniques.
6. Explosive-draped children.
7. New hate-filled indoctrination procedures.
Sure, this is undoubtedly going to get marked as flamebait or something by your friendly neighborhood Islamofascist apologist. But everyone -- including Muslims -- know it's true. Those who claim otherwise are living in total, dangerous denial.
and I don't want to end up like Theo Van Gogh or Salmun Rushdie but from "THE 2002 ARAB HUMAN DEVELOPMENT" written by Arabs for Arabs:
s _2_26/ai_n8706604
The figures for translated books are also discouraging. The
Arab world translates about 330 books annually, one fifth of
the number that Greece translates. The cumulative total of
translated books since the Caliph Maa'moun's [sic] time (the
ninth century) is about 100,000, almost the average that Spain
translates in one year. (AHDR 2002, p. 78)
Even those are mostly of a theological nature.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2501/i
... Torso-mounted, incendiary shrapnel delivery unit. Comes equipped with convenient thumb-operated trigger, warped perception of reality, and seriously misguided faith-based initiative.
Yes, the "muslim world" (again, a useless term in this regard, since it's large and heterogenous; take it to mean the "Arab world", which is still too vague) has fallen from where it once was in terms of intellectual prominence. That's unrelated to either the naure of Islam per-se or to the presence of religious fundamentalists.
Also, nobody's gonna attack you or your family because you post on slashdot. You stupid little bedwetting jackass.
The article is complete BS. A few notable inventions does not make for a great culture.
Rather I think it means that the entire culture is purtid, and tends to destroy anything it comes into contact with. It just so happens that a few notable individuals managed to get their ideas across without being stoned.
Just imagine what these people might have accomplished had they lived in such a society.
I'm going to jahannam (Islamic hell) for that remark, aren't I? They're going to bury me face down with the pigs.
by this list. No pron, no sugery sweet snacks, nothing that contributes to console games, no file sharing, etc. etc. Simply put, nothing that makes our civilization the wonder that it is.
----- There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend; those with loaded guns, and those who dig.
First of all, "the story goes" doesn't really constitute proof that Khalid invented coffee. Secondly, the first primate to think of dipping leaves/berries into warm water and drinking it should be credited as the actual inventor. Alas, that creature was probably not a Muslim. Some of the entries on the list are really stretching it.
Was this based on his dancing ability. Al Gores Rythm - AlGorRithm
In this BBC sitcom, done by Indians making fun of Indians, there was a recurring skit about a sort of pseudo-nationalistic Indian preppie/geek at an English university. Every time something new or even vaguely interesting came on TV, was mentioned, whatever, he'd say "I bet you think that was invented by the English, don't you? Think again! Indian!"
It became hilarious when he'd start ranting about "the Queen? Indian!" and the likes.
This seems to me to be sort of a mix between that, and, given that it's The Guardian, a "no, we don't hate Islam, please don't blow us up, we distance ourselves from any, ahem, cartoons".
I'm not saying a lot of the content isn't legitimate and correct, but the context and timing strikes me as sort of, uh, questionable.
I'm wondering where the parallel articles about inventions from ancient Egypt, China, INDIA!, whatever, are?
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
European Christianity was just coming out of the Dark ages around 1000AD. This was the same time Islamic societies entered into their own dark ages, shutting the doors on further pogress. Not much has changed for Islam since. Naturally during the Dark Ages for either culture, not much of scientific value is produced.
http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/ijtihad.html
"Toward the end of the 11th century, the "gates of ijtihad" were closed for entirely political reasons. During this time, the Muslim empire from Iraq in the east to Spain in the west was going through a series of internal upheavals. Dissident denominations were popping up and declaring their own runaway governments, which posed a threat to the main Muslim leader -- the caliph. Based in Baghdad, the caliph cracked down and closed ranks. Remember those 135 schools of thought mentioned above? They were deliberately reduced to four, pretty conservative, schools of thought. This led to a rigid reading of the Koran as well as to a series of legal opinions -- fatwas -- that scholars could no longer overturn or even question, but could now only imitate. To this very day, imitation of medieval norms has trumped innovation in Islam."
and we (the western world) call the islamic world backwarded ??
It is the belief that there is a God who orders and sustains the universe which undergirded earlier scientific enterprises. People who didn't think the world was illusary. If it was orderly and imbued with reason, we can discover things about it.
Ever notice how physicists are always looking for beautiful and simple theories, like string theory. That doesn't make sense unless theism undergirds your worldview (even if you are unaware it is in the background).
Unfortunately, atheists have no reason for believing that the laws of physics won't change radically tomorrow. Theists do. And that's good for science even if atheists borrow from atheists.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
6 Distillation, the means of separating liquids through differences in their boiling points, was invented around the year 800 by Islam's foremost scientist, Jabir ibn Hayyan, who transformed alchemy into chemistry, inventing many of the basic processes and apparatus still in use today - liquefaction, crystallisation, distillation, purification, oxidisation, evaporation and filtration.
Aye, I'll drink to that, laddy!
One of the top 20 was Chess.
First of all, Persian != Islamic. Second, Chess predates Islam.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
I'm sorry, I just can't get past your use of the word "pieceful".
Comment removed based on user account deletion
...as many in just one year. So can someone tell me where the nearest church of Islam is so that I can convert?
"The White House is not an intelligence-gathering agency," -- Scott McClellan, Whitehouse spokesman.
...but America invented "patents"
Unfortunately, this is merely a puff piece trying to gloss over the radicialization of Islam. Many of those folks ARE pieceful, but they're being lead by a bunch of lunatics that want to bomb everything in sight.
And people still say the US and islam nations have nothing in common...
Islam, being a religion, surely shouldn't be inventing stuff? After all, slash.dot readers have a lot of disdain for Christians who dabble in science.
>jews were being eradicated in a hollocaust
Jews managed to contribute a lot considering the circumstances. The first person I think of is Einstein; he's not alone.
Then the Year of Our Lord 1300 arrived and nothing since.
Meh
Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"
Many of those folks ARE pieceful
Well, the suicide bombers are certainly "pieceful."
Despite not having a zero symbol and having different symbols for multiples of each power of ten, Roman numerals are much the same as our notation as far as arithmetic is concerned. When writing a sum, just leave a space when there are no digits for that power of ten. Then you can operate as if it were a positional notation with funny digits.
This is why, for example, 1999 is represented as MCMLXIX instead of MIM or IMM.
Jews did not and do not believe a "son of God" is coming back. Some do believe in a messiah, but that's completely different.
Christians like to read a lot into the Old Testament that isn't there.
Since this is already looking to be a rather inflamatory discussion, I thougt I might add my opinion into this mess :)
These inventions are all great, and have meant a lot to human development, BUT IMHO it is wrong to couple it to a spesific religion/country/race. These are human inventions. As I always think to myself: The human race are going to be far better off when we get past religion. Methinks we are past the stage where we need fictious characters to explain the unknown in our lives.
As Arthur C. Clarke put it: "Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses."
Doolittle :
Bomb no.20 : To explode of course.
This is for the people attacking Islam here. I'm often appalled at the ignorance on this site about cultural matters. Islam is indeed responsible for many inventions and innovations. Islam is not overwhelmed now by its right-wing side. There are so many people here type typing away who know nothing about what they write, aside from what they get in mass media, I suppose, which is worse than nothing. It's one thing to trash an OS, but to dismiss a whole religion, one of the largest in the world, and all its adherents as evil or stupid, is just bigoted. I'm not going to bother pointing you in the right direction. It's too easy to find good solid info on Islam and its history. Go read a damn book before you open your mouth again. Otherwise, repeat after me, "I have no opinion; I am uninformed, and my kneejerk responses lead me to the embarrassing end of seeming an ignorant and bigoted hick."
The article is actually quite absurd!
FTA "Many modern surgical instruments are of exactly the same design as those devised in the 10th century by a Muslim surgeon called al-Zahrawi."
It is very well known that Surgical instruments were perfected by Sushruta around 500BC in India.
Most of the "inventions" in the article were pioneered, by Greeks, Indians, Chinese and others and these were moved around by the arabs whose caravans traded between these civilizations. To attribute all inventions to Islam is totally unfair to history and to the people and the civilizations who actually invented them!
Can I borrow your sig?
It's hard to tell from the article whether that is referring to the number or the date.
I know One thing they didn't invent: a server that couldn't be slashdotted.
Come on...
Islamic or Arab and Persian?
Was Newton's formulation of Calculus a Christian invention?
nyooclear weapons, yeehaw! 1 2 3 4 5
3 A form of chess was played in ancient India but the game was developed into the form we know it today in Persia. From there it spread westward to Europe - where it was introduced by the Moors in Spain in the 10th century - and eastward as far as Japan. The word rook comes from the Persian rukh, which means chariot.
That makes sense. The characters used on the corresponding peices in Chinese and Japanese versions of Chess use a character that roughly translates to "vehicle". (My languages skills aren't good enough to say what they exactly translate to.) So from Japan to Persia, a rook is a vehicle. But in Europe and America a rook is a castle. I wonder how that happened.
I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
...makes as much sense as to call the television a Mormon invention. The inventor Philo Farnsworth did this in 1927 and was LDS (Mormon).
Extract from about.com: Philo Farnsworth attended Brigham Young University in Utah, where he researched television picture transmission. While in high school, Philo Farnsworth had already conceived of his ideas for television. In 1926, he cofounded Crocker Research Laboratories, which he later renamed Farnsworth Television, Inc. in 1929 (and as Farnsworth Radio and Television Corporation in 1938.)
In 1927, Philo Farnsworth was the first inventor to transmit a television image comprised of 60 horizontal lines. The image transmitted was a dollar sign. Farnsworth developed the dissector tube, the basis of all current electronic televisions. He filed for his first television patent in 1927 (pat#1,773,980.) Although he won an early patent for his image dissection tube, he lost later patent battles to RCA. Philo Farnsworth went on to invent over 165 different devices including equipment for converting an optical image into an electrical signal, amplifier, cathode-ray, vacuum tubes, electrical scanners, electron multipliers and photoelectric materials.
As others have commented, this list should probably be described as Arabic inventions, and not Islamic.
Also, I notice that the tone of the Slashdot story and the comments in this article is rather antagonistic and condescending. I am reminded of Chris Rock's standup routine, when he talks about how white people viewed Colin Powell's possible run for presidency:
"Whenever Colin Powell is on the news, white people give him the same compliments: 'How do you feel about Colin Powell?', 'He speaks so well! He's so well spoken. I mean he really speaks so well!' Like that's a compliment, shit. 'He speaks so well' is not a compliment, okay? 'He speaks so well' is some shit you say about retarded people that can talk. What do you mean he speaks so well? He's a fucking educated man, how the fuck you expect him to sound, you dirty motherfucker? 'He speaks so well.' What are you talking about? What voice were you expecting to come out of his mouth? 'Imma drop me a bomb today', 'Imma be Pwez o dent!'."
LS
There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
Intelligent people don't kill innocent people in the name of some unseen spirit or ghost.
If the Islamics invented calculus then why aren't they able to use it ?
Now let's compare it with the Top 100 Jewish, Christian, Buddhist and Hindu inventions.
No matter how you slice it, from a comparitive standpoint the Islamic world hasn't contributed jack sh*t in the last 500 years.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
The crank-shaft is a device which translates rotary into linear motion and is central to much of the machinery in the modern world, not least the internal combustion engine.
First, don't they have that backwards? Doesn't a crankshaft typically translate linear motion (like, pistons firing) into rotary motion (transmission components spinning)? I mean, granted, it ought to be able to work either way...but I can't think of any obvious applications today where we're using it the way they suggest...
And second, it strikes me that the assignment of the invention of the crankshaft almost has to be purely arbitrary; certainly there were people using cranks to bring buckets up out of wells, and/or in windmills, etc., long before this invention. And I'd be darn surpised if Archimedes wasn't familiar with the general concept.
Given a choice between free speech and free beer, most people will take the beer.
Who the fark mod'ed that thing as Informative?
What mormon could read Torah (or the Christian OT) and not know that its filled with their versions of 'God said, these are the rules for your society'?
Ever hear of Mosaic Law? Kosher?
...had a song that's applicable here. "What Have You Done For Me Lately?"
most of the inventions claimed here are in fact not made by muslims but either by their predecessors (...)
You obviously didn't rtfa :
Invention #1 : 15th century
Invention #2 : 10th century
Invention #3 : 10th century
Invention #4 : 9th century
Invention #5 : 18th century
Invention #6 : 9th century
Invention #7 : 13th century
Invention #8 : crusades (ie. after 11th century)
Invention #9 : not dated, probably post crusades
Invention #10 : 10th century
Invention #11 : 7th century
Invention #12 : 18th century
Invention #13 : 10th century
Invention #14 : 9th century
Invention #15 : 10th century
Invention #16 : not dated
Invention #17 : 9th century
Invention #18 : 9th century
Invention #19 : 15th century
Invention #20 : 11th century
With the possible exception of invention #11, all of them were invented AFTER the foundation of Islam.
About the rest of your post, you obviously have some anger against Muslims. Since you broke Godwin's law yourself, the lesson to be drawn from the nazis is not just that they hated gays, women (really?), communists or jews. That description would fit your usual US conservative TV anchor. The real lesson of nazism is to never let ourselves judge people (or act against them) only according to their category.
Just because your against Bush doesn't mean you have to be pro muslim.
One doesn't have to be pro-muslim or anti-muslim. Muslim does not define someone enough for me to hate him or love him. No more than American. I don't hate Americans and I don't hate Muslims. I don't love Americans and I don't love Muslims. I just know some Americans and I know some Muslims. I happen to like most of them and dislike some of them. The fact that they are American or Muslim is not relevant to my decision to like or dislike them.
What I hate and fear is people who would force you to take sides, people who would tell you to hate someone because he's American or Muslim. Generalization is evil. When you start considering someone as a member of a (hateful) community rather than an individual person, you start eroding your perception of him as a human being. There lies the danger, there lies the slippery slope to nazism.
It would be nice to be sure of anything the way some people are of everything.
What do term limits have to do with voting someone out? I agree, term limits are a good thing and unfortunately the only thing that will get rid of Bush (since he has been able to fix the last two elections), but they have nothing to do with voting. That's why they work so well; they require no effort on the part of the lazy, uninformed electorate.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
In the 4th century the caliphate of Naar, in the western province of Hydrangia invented a game which was the precursor to both chess and mahjong.
I know this because when I was a boy, Mr. Peabody took us back in the wayback machine to find out about it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yeah, right, a 3 course meal! As if people didnt eat before Islam. My great great great great ... grand pa invented eating with the mouth, long before Islamics came up with the three couse meal.
>>A form of chess was played in ancient India but the game was developed into the form we know it today in Persia.
So they also take credit for taking a game and altering its rules?
>>A thousand years before the Wright brothers a Muslim poet, astronomer, musician and engineer named Abbas ibn Firnas made several attempts to construct a flying machine. In 852 he jumped from the minaret of the Grand Mosque in Cordoba using a loose cloak stiffened with wooden struts. He hoped to glide like a bird. He didn't.
You can find quite a few lunatics how jumped or fell off from tall buildings and try to give them credit for "inventing the airplane" If you are talking about bullshit like this, read into Ramayana, an Indian Epic story where they talk about flying crafts way, way long ago.
It looks like a lot of this is bullshit. I would love to go over this and point out the bullshit, but I need to get to work.
Before peaceful muslims no one thought about using suicide bombers against civilians.
So what does the west want? For the army to play a lesser role in politics. Great idea because if democracy were fully allowed it seems very likely Turkey would become another muslims country like Iran (not what the west wants).
Oh and don't forget the Koerds. Yeah I know the bleeding hearts have neatly forgotten how the Koerds now have peace and freedom that they did not have under Saddam but the Koerds still are a supressed minority in Turkey.
So, threat of seperatist and pressure from the west to abolish the system that makes it a very western country. I would call those very big problems.
But yes, your right that the west is measuring with two standards here as well. Why should the koerds have their own land when the Basks do not and Northern Ireland is still occupied?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Bagpipes! (persia)
but then the independent is an english paper so they wouldn't care, now would they?
oh bugger...
There was an episode of "The Munsters" that portrayed persons of middle eastern origins who visited the US on a scouting mission. During their stay they continuously commented on various things that we (The Munsters) used like Grandpa's special "vitamins." That was in the 60s? but everything they claimed to have invented pretty much everything by way of saying something along the lines of "Witamins, which we inwented."
They went back to their country to tell of the super humans (Herman), and other advanced technologies (the ones in Grandpa's basement.)
So, TFA sounds like a bit of a rerun to me.
The Muslim Heritage Exhibition features inventions which it claims to be by Muslims although many of them simply aren't.
Try again, there are plenty of documented evidence that the people in Jerusalem were treated horribly (as were the others who were captured early on during the periods of expansion). At a minimum Jews, Christians and anyone else who lived in Muslim lands were second class citizines (just as Jews were in Europe). There were many incidents, because one was a oppressor, one was oppressed.
Does anyone have a short list of the 1001 entries, I want to see where the suicide bombers place in it.
Man is the lowest-cost, 150-pound, nonlinear, all-purpose computer system which can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.
It seems to me that the author feels the Islamic world needs some positive attention, and, like the retarded kid at school, we all need to congratulate Islam on the smallest of achievements and make it feel like it's part of the gang.
"Wow, Islam! You came up with the idea the Earth is round? Good for you! That's really cool!"
"That's a cool picture, Islam! You almost kept all the coloring in the lines!"
One wonders if their U.N. delegation doesn't get picked up in a short bus. I'm sure most people are well aware that Islam was once a cultural and educational center of the world, but it isn't that way anymore. Celebrating these "achievements" like this are just a bit patronizing. Maybe if we started treating them like equals and not idiots we would get along a lot more.
They may have not invented it, but they certainly mastered it.
http://www.arabnews.com/9-11/?article=32&part=2
" Children in Turkey were vaccinated with cowpox to fight the deadly smallpox at least 50 years before the West discovered it."
This is just plain WRONG! The practice of deliberately infecting people with SMALLPOX (not cowpox) from a mild case to make them immune (variolation) was a process developed sometime around the 10th century in China and/or India. It involved taking pus from the pox of someone suffering from smallpox, or the scabs from the pox, and inoculating healthy people with it. Usually a mild case of smallpox developed, giving lifelong immunity afterwards. The first written account of variolation describes a Buddhist nun practicing around 1022 to 1063 AD. She would grind up scabs taken from a person infected with smallpox into a powder, and then blow it into the nostrils of a non-immune person. Another method, more common, involves rubbing the pus from the pox into a scratch in the skin of the non-immune person.
By the 1700's, variolation was common practice in China, India, and Turkey, where it was carried to England by a diplomat's wife. In the late 1700's European physicians used this and other methods of variolation, but reported "devastating" results in some cases. Overall, 2% to 3% of people who were variolated died of smallpox, but this practice decreased the total number of smallpox fatalities by 10-fold. However, a variolated patient could transmit genuine smallpox and could even start an epidemic!
Jenner, on the other hand, was the first to use cowpox (vaccinia virus) instead of live smallpox ... hence the name of "vaccination".
that due to Islam's nature, many of the inventions were probably done by some unbeliever who got decapitated after doing his/her work. Then the Islamic power just named some dumbass to own the copyright to the invention. That's how we got those funny names like "algorithm", etc.
Ok, lets just examine one of the top 20 list's examples just to prove how one sided and ignorant this whole story is. "2. The ancient Greeks thought our eyes emitted rays, like a laser, which enabled us to see. The first person to realise that light enters the eye, rather than leaving it, was the 10th-century Muslim mathematician, astronomer and physicist Ibn al-Haitham. He invented the first pin-hole camera after noticing the way light came through a hole in window shutters. The smaller the hole, the better the picture, he worked out, and set up the first Camera Obscura (from the Arab word qamara for a dark or private room). He is also credited with being the first man to shift physics from a philosophical activity to an experimental one." Yes, some greeks postulated that our eyes emitted rays to see. But it was not the entire greek society that believed this. And they definitely didn't use the word "laser" as that is a modern word. Ibn al-Haitham just popularized the opposing greek theory that light enters the eyes. It also makes it sound as if this guy invented the camera. Let's get this straight folks, he invented a hole in a box that was based on greek theories and examples. Sure the word Camera might have come from Gamera, but he didn't invent that either, even if he did associate that word with a hole in a box. His main invention then was his word association which is all that most of these "arabs" did in the first place. Almost every "invention" on this list can be credited to the Greeks or Romans before them. It is just that after Rome fell and the empire moved to the east it took it's ideas with them. The "Arabs" or at least some of them were the last ones to writes them down until the enlightenment, but that does not mean they should be given credit for inventing anything. The last statement about him taking philosophy to an experimental level is the most ignorant. Philosophy was always about observation and proving ones theory and still is. That is experimentation on a very primitive level. Perhaps they meant to say rhetoric instead of philosophy. This story was nothing but pro-islamic propoganda. The British should be ashamed for promoting this as history.
Or L. Ron Hubbard did not start scientology, it started when Xenu thrown thetans into hawaiian volcanos or did something equaly fscked up.
That's right! And Islam is a young, impudent and fast-growing "fad" religion; it is the older brother of Scientology and the Raelians and many other wacky cults.
Ok, lets just examine one of the top 20 list's examples just to prove how one sided and ignorant this whole story is.
"2. The ancient Greeks thought our eyes emitted rays, like a laser, which enabled us to see. The first person to realise that light enters the eye, rather than leaving it, was the 10th-century Muslim mathematician, astronomer and physicist Ibn al-Haitham. He invented the first pin-hole camera after noticing the way light came through a hole in window shutters. The smaller the hole, the better the picture, he worked out, and set up the first Camera Obscura (from the Arab word qamara for a dark or private room). He is also credited with being the first man to shift physics from a philosophical activity to an experimental one."
Yes, some greeks postulated that our eyes emitted rays to see. But it was not the entire greek society that believed this. And they definitely didn't use the word "laser" as that is a modern word. Ibn al-Haitham just popularized the opposing greek theory that light enters the eyes.
It also makes it sound as if this guy invented the camera. Let's get this straight folks, he invented a hole in a box that was based on greek theories and examples. Sure the word Camera might have come from Gamera, but he didn't invent that either, even if he did associate that word with a hole in a box. His main invention then was his word association which is all that most of these "arabs" did in the first place.
Almost every "invention" on this list can be credited to the Greeks or Romans before them. It is just that after Rome fell and the empire moved to the east it took it's ideas with them. The "Arabs" or at least some of them were the last ones to writes them down until the enlightenment, but that does not mean they should be given credit for inventing anything.
The last statement about him taking philosophy to an experimental level is the most ignorant. Philosophy was always about observation and proving ones theory and still is. That is experimentation on a very primitive level. Perhaps they meant to say rhetoric instead of philosophy.
This story was nothing but pro-islamic propoganda. The British should be ashamed for promoting this as history.
Islam like it really is, a backwards, devisive, intollerant, oppresive religion. How anyone can associate that any great acheivements (which, I think have been pretty well rubbished here anyway) is beyond me, unless of course this is simply more muslim propoganda.
... and being a history student with a keen interested in ancient technology, I have a few worthless comments.
1) The period from 700 AD to 1500 AD was one of relative stability for the Arabs, but they are not the Arabs we know; western nations called them http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saracen/. Throughout the history of Man, stable enconomies and excess wealth are driving factors for innovation (common sense; hard to innovate when you're fighting or starving.)
2) Many of the inventions listed are Persian, not Arab.
3) Some of the research is very wrong,
-as other posters have noted, but I recall that ox powered mills existed in Roman times, and watered powered mills existed by 400 AD.
- Crank shaft... Hero had a steam turbine to open doors, it employed a crank shaft as I understand it.
- Chinese were distilling products 2000 BC if I recall
5)
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
I second this. I submit that St. Patrick's Day, kilts, Celts, Hobbitts, How The Irish Saved Civilization and the Pogues have become the de facto "white people pride" celebration. And most of that has no racist overtones whatsoever (at least to my eyes, but then I'm a cracker too.) And let's face it, EVERY day is Christian and Straight People celebration day.
BTW if you haven't ever drunk an Irish Car Bomb, now's the time to start.
Ingredients: 1/2 shot Irish Whiskey 1/2 shot Bailey's irish cream 1 pint Guinness stout
Combine Bailey's Irish Cream and irish whiskey into one shot glass. Drop the shot into a mug of guinness and chug until empty.
Intelligent Design: because MATH is HARD.
it's not possible to deduce that the earth is a sphere from the statement "the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth"
the statement is, in fact, not true
the sun is vertical to a particular spot only at a particular time each day
not only that, but it is not possible to determine that statement to be true, unless you've invented a means of communicating across long distances instantaneously, to determine that it is vertical at one spot and not at another; or a clock capable of keeping time precisely enough to determine the shift in "noon" over a long, slow, rough jourey; and we know they didn't have those
so they didn't deduce that the world is round; they guessed, and used circular logic to presume a proof of their guess
There are a few problems with that list. Stuff like the respite gardens existed way before. Remember the hanging gardens of Babylon. Also, whoever compiled that list assumed that everyone in the middle east is muslim. A bunch of those inventions were invented way before Arabs were actually followers of Islam. The Arabs were not follows of Islam before. The number system originated in India, and since the Indians traded with the Arabs, the Arabs adopted it. But credit is given to the Arabs for the number system. Just a few noticed faults.
I think the religion has an effect on culture. What activities are prohibited and encouraged, pronouncents of what is good and evil in religious texts, the relationship of men and women, etc. How can you say that religion is independent to culture?
This is a conflict which does not in fact exist... except in the context of us (the West) needing the oil in the middle East.
/I'm off.
Hence all sorts of "Clash of Civilisation" nonesense must be fabricated to drum up pseudo-nationalist sentiments amongst Westerns in order to provide public support for the enivatable/required snatch-and-grab of the Middle-East's oil.
1001 ways to piss off Islamic people is most assuredly some misguided person's notion of expressing "freedom" but, is of course in fact, merely evidence that those "free" people showing the "poor/stupid/backwards" muslims just how "poor/stupid/not_like_us" they are, are themselves simply tools of the machine that "justifies" the non-civilisation conflict between "us and them"... since clearly the "conflict" is an economic.. not a cultural one.
Anyway... my Hummer is looking lonely without me + my blonde tart hogging the road.
What do Christians hate?
This is the second-most common tactic used in Muslim apologetics. When someone criticizes Islam, change the subject to Christianity! I've seen this done by Muslims and Leftist defenders of Islam many, many times.
Here's an idea: let Islam stand on its own and be judged on its own merits. We'll do Christianity next, but I think we should start with Islam since its adherents seem, by far, most prone to violence, threats, intimidation, car burnings, suicide bombings, and general religious psychosis.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
1. Color TV (or widescale consumer adoption of tv).
2. Outsourcing / global trade.
3. Cheap commercial airflight.
4. Space flight.
As the jihad advances, Greece will eventually be conquered and converted to a Muslim state, thereby retroactively converting Eratosthenese' discovery to a Muslim one. Just like many of the other discoveries in this article that predate Mohammed. ;-D
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
In fact, why the fuck did you drag your racist view of your perceived Dutch problem into this discussion?
Islam is not a race. His argument was not racist.
Notice that when Muslims tout Islam, they talk about how it "transcends racial barriers" and other such glowing praise. Then when someone points out the Muslims who go out of their way to blow up a busful of children and claim that it was the will of Allah that such a thing happen, then the "that's racist!" canard starts rearing its ugly head.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
As did Aryabhata in the 6th century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryabhata cheers!
The crusades were a response to Jesus asshattery, because before this contest, 0 points are what I had.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
What great thing has any country's people come up with once Islam takes it over? All of this stuff was in the past, and its quite possible many of those things were borrowed from the Greek, who already had the camshaft, waterwheels, and many other things.
Pick a country thats devoted its life to Islam, and I'll show you a king being opressive.
I suspect you're confusing the Soviet Union with early Nazi Germany. There was discrimination against Jews in the Soviet Union, but I believe the Communistically Correct way of referring to them was "cosmopolites". (Baaaad) I haven't heard that this should extend to physical theories.
No he is right. Lev Landau got into trouble until he was (probably) rescued by Kapitza. Who himself had got into trouble with Stalin earlier on. In the early twenties the communists declared quantum mechanics to be contrary to something apparently called "dialectical materialism", whatever that means. The practical upshot was, if you taught modern physics (you know, Bohr, Sommerfeld, Heisenberg et al) you were apt to be shipped off to Siberia for hard labor and "reeducation" Luckily for soviet science, they reversed the policy by the end of the twenties.
And you've touched on the *really* interesting part of all of this... why is it that Europeans (straight, white, Christian withstanding) came to dominate all of these other groups and cultures. What about them was it that led to them becoming the "master race" that you refer to. Why was it not the East Indians that came to and conquered Britain and established trading posts in North America? I'm suggesting some sort of jacked up Aryan white suppremicist view, but asking a real question.
If these kinds of questions fascinate you, I suggest Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies by Jared Diamond. It realy dives into some of these issues. Good read. Oh and that link is not to some lame amazon store of mine.
"How many of the ideas the 'Western' world are even possible because of the inventions from years ago?"
Everybody says that we wouldn't be where we are today if it wasn't for Bill Gates getting computers to the masses.
We could argue that if it wasn't for the guy who invented the Microchip, computers wouldn't be what they are today.
We could also go back and argue that if it wasn't for cave men using tools, the Microchip would never have been invented.
We could further argue that if it wasn't for plankton evolving, we never would have had appendages wherewith to use tools.
Etc., etc., etc.
Blah, blah.
Yawn.
I'd say that if it wasn't for the sharing of ideas, we wouldn't be where we are today.
Anyway, I wouldn't worry. It seems that the west is starting to stagnate now: it's now fashionable to be ignorant, not go to school, take drugs, destroy things, and fight against government. The next generation or two are going to be so dumb, and those from the non-West are more interested in learning.
I wouldn't be surprised if Arabs and Asians had us Westerners for slaves in 30 years time - if there's anything left of Western society by then.
Oops! I meant that I'm NOT suggesting a white suppremicist view. Man, I really should use the preview feature. Oh, and put question marks after all the questions.
I remember a front page article from The Telegraph (respected UK non-tabloid paper), that said Saddam Hussain (I believe) claimed that Shakespeare infact was from Iraq and he was actually called 'Sheik-E-Spear'.
No sharp objects, I'm a programmer!
Mod parent up.
Besides some of the positive inventions, I wonder if the suicide bomber is one of the 1001.
Many of these 20 are outright wrong. Trying to rewrite history are we?
= 18360&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
See here how these iventions are debunked by facts: http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t
It's a forum, ignore the irrelevant posts and look at the facts, they are all backed by independent historic sources.
Islam only refined them, popularized them, and maintained the knowledge.
Or let's look at the invention of the Zero, which is actually an Indian invention (as in India), and is documented in their ancient texts.
We in the West pay more attention to where we got it from, not from where it originated. Possibly because we are too lazy to actually do the research required.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
The system of base-10 numbers that we use today was from the Arabic world. The romans used their system of 'roman numerals' which was greatly inferior and, most importantly, lacked a 'zero', or even the important concept of zero.
The discovery of oil was probably the worst thing that could have happened to the middle east. Instead of relying on a educated populace to produce innovations that benefit their societies and the world, the middle east pumped oil out of the ground and not done anything significant since then.
An educated populace probably would lessen the impact of radical religious fundamentalists, and this could have resulted in a more peaceful/stable middle east.
Education breeds innovation and peaceful stability. Oil seems to have killed the need for education in that part of the world.
-ted
What is it about Islam that inspired these inventions, assuming they are all "Islamic" inventions.
Is the nuclear bomb a Christian invention? The automobile? What gives? Why call something "Islamic" if Islam had nothing to do with it. You might call these inventions non-provacative to Islam, or compatible with Islam, but that's about it. They were not invented because of Islam, they were likely invented despite Islam, just like all the Western advances were achieved while dragging the Catholic and Protestant Christian churches kicking and screaming into the future.
Edith Keeler Must Die
Some of the earliest hadiths show Mohammed's prejudice against jews, even while he was still alive. The fact that jews were able to live (somewhat) alongside muslims in the past has more to do with the rulers of the land than with the religion. While it's true that things in the last 60 years have been very bad as a direct result of the establishment of the jewish state in israel, you can hardly blame the colonial powers as the origin of these problems.
It is true that it does not make any sense to attribute all these inventions to islam. Islam, especially when it was in the conquering mode, interacted with many cultures & civilisations and historians will say that many ideas were lifted from other cultures. Any religion or culture cannot come out of blue on a particular date and start inventing things. They will have had vestiges or the attributes of the culture/civilisation that it took root from. Again, to say that islam invented things which were missed out by more ancient Hindu/ Greek/ Chinese/ Egyptian civilisations which have been around for far more incredible number of years is to hogwash these great civilisations. It is time people stop peddling these kind of 'lists' and see history in complete context.
What, like ending up with leaders who claim that God told them to go to War with other countries?
That never happened, no matter how much you wish it was true.
Bush met with some palestenien dude and then later that dude claimed Bush said something that Bush didn't say. The white house put out a press release denying that Bush said it.
It's like if I meet Cmdr Taco at a linux convention and then later I write in my blog, "OMFG Malda told me he was GAY!!!!111" If Malda denies it, who are you going to believe, me or him?
But of course, because you hate Bush, you will believe anything bad about him. You're biased.
Let's not forget the self sharpening headsman axe and the C4 Nikes with easy light fuses.
Not to deny the invention of the 3 course meal ( #15 on the top 20 list ) has altered the course of civilization, but has anything useful come out of the Islamic world in the last couple hundred years or so? Other than fatwas, carbombs and hacked up corpses, I mean.
don't you read the papers? There is a shortage of virgins in heaven...
We're better than others at killing because we're better than they are at everything else. Wars are logistical contests fought by civilians on farms, in shops, and, in modern times, in factories and laboratories. We're better at all those other things because our culture is superior to theirs: we are free. I say "we" to humor you. In fact, "we" are white, black, Chinese, and anything else in America, Europe, Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Australia, and maybe some other places. "We" are all people who embrace the superior culture developed by whites in America and Europe. For the record, I hate almost all of you politically correct, whiny Slashdotters. You're a bunch of emotionalist bitches.
Don't want to "upset" anybody do we?
Where is the Suicide Bomber?
Unfortunately, this has become a very effective weapon during our lifetime...
100% Insightful
A man's true wealth is the good he does in this world.
Believe, if thou wilt, that mountains change their places, but believe not that man changes his nature.
To overcome evil with good is good, to resist evil with evil is evil.
The ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr.
The Spoon
Updated 6/28/2011
I find it amusing that the article claims it was generally accepted by Muslim scholars in the 9th century that the Earth is round, while the Quran itself claims that the Sun sets in mud and the earth has extremes of east and west.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
I thought Al Gore created algorihtms! To program the internet, you know.
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
Your erotic preferences, skin color, and religion, if they're relevant at all, are only relevant to account for your guilt and self-loathing.
Any citizen of the United States can improve himself until he's a Supreme Court Justice, Secretary of State, National Security Advisor, Senator, Representative, President (though, by historical accident, we lack precedent for that), or anything else. The conservative movement widely regards two black men, Thomas Sowell and Walter E. Williams, as their intellectual premiers.
Relatively few black people realize their potential because people like you discourage them. Rationally, the past is irrelevant to living blacks' present decisions whether to work hard, and those decisions whether to work hard entirely determine blacks' degrees of success. (During your panicked attempt to appear to dispute this, please explain in what respects blacks raised in fabulous wealth and freedom relative to the wealth of people in lands of true oppression throughout the world are disadvantaged relative to penniless immigrants arriving from those lands of true oppression--without reference to your own complicity in suppressing them here by your communist and racist--Democrat--propaganda.)
That's one thing you forgot.
Some of these "inventions" may have seemed remarkable hundreds of years ago, but what modern inventions have come from Islamic countries. Note, I am not referring to Moslems living and working in the West. One of the reasons these countries/cultures feel belittled by the rest of the world is that they have not contributed anything of note in hundreds of years. There are, for example, no Syrian scientists, mathematicians, engineers, etc. who have contributed anything to the modern world.
I agree that these innovations seem to be more regional than religion based. However, I was suprised not to see Algebra (the word is derived from an Arabic term which I don't recall) in the top 20!
I used to fear clowns...but I'm discovering that chimps are far, far, worse.
Look at his name? It sounds kind of arabic so my guess is he could be a muslim.
I am not a muslim but I do hear them talk about allah being with mohammed with x, and then with noah with y, just as he was with adam.
Its part of their belief structure to incorporate islam as the extension of judiasm after it became corrupt(muslim belief).To a muslim its the truth and mohammed came to be set the true faith again.
http://saveie6.com/
Eratosthenes discovered this (include the circumference to about the same error) in the 3rd century BC using the same method.
Time for a little honesty! An Atheist's Guide to Mohammedanism http://www.atheists.org/Islam/mohammedanism.html
Accoridng to the top 20 article, these inventions came from Islamic inventors:
coffee, flying, anaesthetics, windmills, chess, pens, algebra, shampoo, carpets, distillation, check system for banking, combination lock, crank-shaft, Earth was a sphere (this I believe), rockets, "garden as a place of beauty and meditation"
Many of the the 20 top inventions include a description along the lines before the west discovered it, Islamic person found X. I can't help but think whoever put this list of 1001 invention is bitter over not being properly credited with historical discoveries. Is this a list about inventions or someone with a bruised ego trying to rewrite history?
What the hell does James Iha have to do with the crusades?
Oh, ihad, never mind...
Go hug some trees.
I could be wrong. I just quickly skimed over the list and dates of inventions. But this list seemed to confirm my original conclusion. And that conclusion is that all the great Muslim inventions to humanity were created in the hayday of Muslim Middle East civilization, which was during the Western Mddle Age. That was the apogee of Muslim enlightment, when all religions were tolorated for a tax price, the mentally insane were treated as ill with a cure rate equal to todays, and " a virgin could pass from one end of the empire to the other end with a purse of gold and not be molested". Sadly religious fanaticism ruined that. Sort of like the Christian right wackos are trying to do in the USA today. And with W Bush they may succeed. And this is not really Klept but someday impersinating him for those of you religious freaks crazy enough to want to kill me for speaking the truth. Snakes on a Plane.
Wait, the Islamic conquests of Europe pretty much ended with the Battle of Tours in 732. What sort of "response" takes three hundred and fifty years or more to happen? Are you suggesting that the French knights suddenly felt bad for the subjugated Middle Eastern tribes?
Look, I know it fits nicely into the modern "savage Arabs bad!" viewpoint, but you're going to have to back up your "the Crusades were the Arabs' fault!" with something more than "jihad" as an answer.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Speaking of "humouring this dangerous religion", enjoy this little music video on the islamist view of life, "It's in the Koran": http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry= 19238_Its_In_the_Koran&only/
So first of all, this is "1001 discoveries made by people who were living in Islamic dominated countries at the time" versus actual Islamic discoveries. Otherwise, the Theory of Evolution, say, is a "Christian discovery".
Next, here's an example of some of the discoveries:
Al-Biruni, the 14th century physicist was able to calculate the circumference of the Earth and its tilt 600 years before Galileo. Other discoveries provided a scientific explanation for tide changes, equinoxes, seasons, why the sky is blue and why rainbows occur.
Well let's see. This was done by Eratosthenes around 220BC. So file that one under pagan discoveries. Of course, a 14th century physicist discovering something 600 years before Galileo implies a far greater achievement -- the discovery of time travel, since he would have had to go 500 years back in time to do something 600 years before Galileo.
They even claim that Mohammed invented the toothbrush.
All in all, a poor piece of scholarship all round, and the worst part of it is that attribution of scientific discoveries to a religion (of any kind), since religions by their nature represent the attribution of cause to imagined entities as an alternative to actually trying to make hypotheses, test them, and build on the ones that work and discard the ones that fail.
Obviously the creators of this list meant to show "respect" to Muslims with this exhibit but it turns unintentionally condescending. Religion and science are two completely different things. Religion is about absolute, unquestioned faith in the invisible. Science and invention are practical, trial-and-error methods of ongoing discovery of the visible. The whole concept of linking a religion (Islam) together with mostly 8th-13th century practical inventions is so obviously strained that it could only come about as a politically correct apology for the ongoing train-wreck that medieval Islam is having with the modern world.
The article mentions that they named a crater after the first man who did the first more or less successful tests with a flying machine(glider). Someone was a tad sceptical about the story?
Hmmm, why didn't you compare MUSLIM ATROCITIES in the US with CHRISTIAN ATROCITIES in the US?
Oh, because that would make Islam look good, and we can't have that.
The USA being mostly christian, and the criminal classes even more so (because of the overlap with the undereducated poor, who more frequently resort to crime) the vast majority of crime in the US is committed by Christians.
Fact! DEAL.
And as for Bush and Blair condemning state-orchestrated rioting over cartoons the rioters had no access to, why did you think those two would stand up against censorship? Of course they want to limit what people publish. Their penchant for torture would be easier to cover up that way.
Not that I'm disagreeing with the assertions made in the article (I only read through the short one), but was anyone else reminded of the father in My Big Fat Greek Wedding?
Alan Turing comes to mind. Without him, none of us would be pos[t]ing here.
Because we wouldn't have computers, or because we would all be working in slave labor camps for our Nazi overlords?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
They forgot the 1002nd invention: the IED.
1001 inventions that "modern" Islam mindset would make impossible.
You do realize that they won the crusades, don't you? It is inconvenient for the "blame the West for everything" worldview, but my ancestors got their asses kicked.
Actually, I believe the Mongols pretty much had their hand in the decline of Middle Eastern culture. Since they had the bad habbit of killing every last person in every city they came too.
The only reason they didn't get to Europe is because Ghengis Khan died and they all decided to go hom. They did wipe out a rather large army of Polish knights after the 1250's mind you.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
From the second article:
The windmill was invented in 634 for a Persian caliph and was used to grind corn and draw up water for irrigation.
Wow! That's a neat trick. They were grinding corn almost 1000 years before westerners had first visited the new world and brought corn back with them.
That explains middle eastern tortillas!
cat sig >
Am I proud to be "white?" Not at all. It required no effort on my part, thus it can hardly be considered an "accomplishment."
I think the point of specially honoring female or black scientists, for instance, was that they had to work harder to get the same education, supplies and recognition that their white and male peers did. So it's not so much that Lise Meitner discovered nuclear fission (it wasn't all her work, but it wouldn't have happened without her), but that she overcame obstacles inherent in being a female scientist in Pre-WWII Germany to do so.
But there haven't historically been extra hoops you have to jump through to be a white, male scientist. So there wouldn't be anything extra to celebrate about that, now would there?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I'm no expert, but it's obvious that Arabic culture has had its shining moments.
So what's happened to them, that the Middle East consistently ranks at the bottom of current national standards for cultural advancement? It looks like the politics of scarcity (with Islam as a tool) devours all the cultural capital they have.
Sure, that would be legitimate, if you consider NASA a cultural group. "Yeah, I'm a quarter NASA on my mother's side."
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Oh, and they missed using Jets to bring down major buildings in New York. Although, to be fair, Tom Clancy came up with that idea earlier.
So did the National Intelligence Council...
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
With the exception of the a-bomb and the integrated circuit, even the west has been coasting on the inventiveness of the 19th century. Almost everything is an extension of the creations of that period. Even relativity and airplanes had their start back then. It's not just the Middle East, it's the entire world that's falling behind in development.
Islam merely haven't had their Martin Luther (yet).
1. Islam is not translatable into other languages (or at least not supposed to be)
2. Islam does not have a central church.
3. The Quaran is a single non-editable peice of work.
You can't add or subtract from it like you can the Bible... You can't have various translations of it nor can you interpet it in such ways. (actually the Quaran has a nice part about saying some of what is says cannot be interpeted because only God can understand)
But let me also point out that Martin Luther didn't make Christianity into a moderate religion either. He was a very hateful person (anti-jewish) and really got politics on his side with a few German princes resulting in a very nasty religious war in central Europe for a while between reformers and counter reformers.
I think it became more moderate as living conditions improved and higher level thinkers began to promote "rationalism" in the early 1700's and promoted secularism in government. This removed power from the church and we found ourselves not going off to foreign lands to kill people because they believed in a different god. We still found ourselves going to foreign lands because our king or government said so, but it was over things like national borders and economics.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
If you are ever to visit Turkey and stop by any tourist attraction,
...
you will immediately learn that EVERYTHING was invented in Turkey.
Starting from Santa Claus (they got a church to prove it !) and
ending with a training facility for Egyptian pharaons
It is amusing in the beginning, but then it just gets plain funny.
Going through the list the invention of rugs struck me. A thousand years later and my office has this cheap tacky shit on the floor. For all our modern technology, people had equivalent, if not better, substitutes for what we have now. My computer and phone are useful, but everything else is plastic crap that a thousand years ago was likely nicer. I think I'd take a fountain pen over all the crappy Bics laying around the cubicle.
Invention #1 Suicide Bomb. Invention #2 (Improved Bomb) Suicide Bomb Car
This is my sig.
This kind of patriotism/fantatical pride is really puzzling. People here are arguing about inventions that happend centuries before. You didnt know those people much less invest anything of your own in their exploits. Do you really think their genius makes your genes more valuable?
What did you invent today? What did you create yesterday? Those are the ONLY things you should really be proud of, isnt it?
People get crushed when their team loses. Even when they contributed exactly zero towards the effort.
How have you failed if your favorite football team didnt win? How have you failed if a greek ancient invented
zero instead of an indian (or whoever did).
It seems like a bug in human software. We continue to allow ourselves to be manipulated by these things.
For those to lazy to read the article, all 1001 inventions are bombs strapped to small children.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1 050wmv&ak=null
_ Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=783wmv&ak=null
more (older) interview here:
http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV
Oh my god! That's so original! I surely have never heard that joke before! Perhaps you can tell the one about Ted Kennedy next, you cutting-edge devil, you!
Thank god these carrier pigeons can transmit our messages so damn quickly across the world. Maybe the lazy West will get off of its ass and invent a packet routed communication network based on computers and fiber optics. Or maybe will we just keep coasting.
If you wanna be proud of anything, be proud of the fact that you are part of a race, sexuality, gender, and religion that has not been publicly ridiculed, tortured, eradicated, and had their ass kicked six ways from sunday for the past x-hundred years.
Or be proud of something you have achieved, or played part in the achievement. Proud of an action, or a decision nót to act. Proud of a thought perhaps. I think it a bit absurd to be proud of my skincolor, gender, sexual preference or righthandedness. It was given to me, 'there you are, enjoy', and I settled with it. 1001 islamic inventions? Doesn't make sense to me. White pride? Nope. Gay pride? Nyet. Male domination? Only because of genetic muscular advantage, ONLY. But nothing to be proud of.
Just my thoughts.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
Reg: They've bled us white, the bastards. They've taken everything we had, and not just from us, from our fathers, and from our fathers' fathers.
Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers.
Reg: Yeah.
Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers.
Reg: Yeah. All right, Stan. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return? (he pauses smugly)
Xerxes: Coffee.
Reg: What?
Xerxes: Coffee.
Reg: Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us that. Uh, that's true. Yeah.
Masked commando #1: And the camera.
Stan: Oh, yeah, the camera, Reg. Remember what photography used to be like?
Reg: Yeah. All right. I'll grant you coffee and the camera are two things that the Muslims have done.
Matthias: And algebra.
Reg: Well, yes, obviously algebra. I mean, algebra goes without saying, doesn't it? But apart from coffee, the camera, and algebra...
Masked commando #2: Chess.
Xerxes: Surgical instruments.
Masked commando #3: Windmill.
General audience: Ohh...
Reg: Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough.
Masked commando #1: And the fountain pen!
General audience: Oh, yes! True!
Francis: Yeah. Yeah, that's something we'd really miss if the Muslims left, Reg.
Masked commando #4: The three course meal!
Reg: All right, but apart from coffee, the camera, chess, surgical instruments, the windmill, the fountain pen, and the three course meal, what have the Muslims ever done for us?
i\hbar\dot{\psi}=\hat{H}\psi
Good read, this should be modded up.
dont judge a book by its cover. islam gives more rights to women then anyother religion. Islam saved women from oppression and was the first EVER releigion to give them rights to own property, wealth, etc. I beleive this didnt happen in the west until women started staging MASS protests.
understand and read about islam to know what it is and what it stands for. simply meeting a muslim these days is not enough - no one is perfect and dont assume that they are what all islam is about...
Muslims also have every right to be outraged at insulting comments...as you do...will you not let them speak? im sure if one of your core beleifs was disgustingly insulted with a bunch of fallacies, you would demand a stop to it as well...after all, with freedom comes responsibility...
It is amazing how many of these "inventions" are of following form - "Even though such-and-such was probably invented in India or China, it was the muslims who [wrote it down/polished it/revealed it to the west].
The truth is, until Vasco De Gama discovered the sea route to India, Arabs were the conduit for all communication and trade between the West and India. Hence, many inventions and goods that are actually Indian are often misnamed as Arabic. The so-called "Arabic numeric system" is an excellent example.
One would think, after all these years, there would be more clarity on this issue.
All your favorite sites in one place!
You can't be serious. Of course technology builds on itself. The inventions of the 19th century were an extension of discoveries made in the 18th century. And you can probably keep tracing everything back to caveman days if you had enough information. But there are many new discoveries every day. We're definately not coasting. The Internet itself is probably the greatest contribution to civilization since the printing press, but it didn't just show up one day. Some very smart people took a combination of technologies already discovered (computers, electronics, communications) and invented ways to tie them all together to make it happen.
I have read a lot of history about the Islamic empire that stretched from India to Iberia. This is largely an extension of my desire to understand Spanish history.
To say that Islam created these wonders is to ignore what was actually happening in the society that was the Islamic empire. The empire was tolerant of all religions and beliefs, including people "not of the book," which would include persons that were not Jews and Christians. This empire preached tolerance and benefitted from having non-believers because the government taxed non-believers more (which may have influenced the less-firm in their beliefs to convert).
The end result was a polycultural society that valued innovation, high art and wonderful architecture. And I would argue that it's not the dominant religion that was responsible but the society.
If you look at the last century, you'll see lots of Nobel Prize winners in the sciences coming from America (that would be The Great Satan to many Islamic societies -- especially Iran). Could it be that a polycultural society with vast natural resources is what helps in the creation of these innovations?
I look at these monocultural and intolerant societies as non-creators of advancements. For examples, one merely needs to look at Afghanistan under the Taliban, Iran and China under the Cultural Revolution.
I agree that it is important to look to history and appreciate those innovations and inventions that came before but to suggest that a religion created these is to ignore what really happened.
I should note that, when Iberia turned monocultural and intolerent under the Kings of Castile and Aragon, they created and innovated such wonderous examples as the Spanish Inquisition, the expulsion and forced conversion (and further persecution) of Jews and the encomienda system of tributory labor that was used to enslave and destroy Native American nations and civilizations. [sarcasm]It's a shame these innovations happened so long ago; they surely would have been awarded Nobel prizes for them.[/sarcasm]
I do not wish to detract from the religion that is Islam. I know a great number of practicing muslims and they are good people with whom I have very good friendships. I believe that people should get along with their neighbors and appreciate them more by striving to understand them. But the article seems to gloss over the fact that the culture probably begat the advancements rather than the religion.
Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
The USA being mostly christian, and the criminal classes even more so (because of the overlap with the undereducated poor, who more frequently resort to crime) the vast majority of crime in the US is committed by Christians.
Ah, but you're committing the very error you're complaining against. The poster wasn't complaining about all crime, but rather crime motivated by fundie craziness. Which, surprise, tends not to motivate the majority of crime in the US.
state-orchestrated rioting over cartoons the rioters had no access to
You're saying that these nuts will riot for no reason other than "Hey, you! Torch shit!"? And you think this helps your point how, exactly?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I noticed that the article indicated that some surgical tools (notably for eye surgery) were invented in the time of Islam. But this probably isn't true because Galen, a doctor in the Roman Empire had created such a tool and used it in eye surgery.
There's going to be a ton of errors with this exhibit because it neglects to remember that there were strong, prosperous, and clever civilizations of the Middle East before Arab domination. Egypt, Mesopotamia, and the Persian Empire all laid the groundwork for learning and inventing. Additionally, the whole Middle East was a crossroads for that allowed knowledge, technology, and goods to flow to it.
I guess that would be the car bomb?
Why, yes, every religion has its nuts. But no other religion has nuts quite like Islamic nuts. Can you demonstrate several daily religiously-motivated acts of murderous barbarism from, say, the Catholics?
This is like claiming that Baruch Goldstein's actions make all Israelis morally equivalent to Hamas. Or that a single civilian death makes the American army no better than Saddam's. Or that Matthew Shepard's death makes Americans no better than the Iranian regime which regularly executes homosexuals. It's morally vacuous.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
If you goto an abortion clinic here you will be shouted at and harrassed, or have things thrown at you.
Are you saying that the fact that our nuts hassle people at clinics somehow vitiates the legitimacy of our finger-pointing at crazy-ass headchoppers? If not, why did you bring it up?
and you probably won't find "BrokeBack Mountain" in our movie theaters either.
Hmm. Well, it's playing in Oklahoma City, Des Moines, Wichita and the notoriously conservative Colorado Springs. And this, months after the initial release. What were you trying to prove here, again?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
The idea that the universe was a big bit of clockwork, ultimately reducible and understandable, dates, in Western thought, from the Age of Enlightenment, which was most certainly not a religious movement.
Unfortunately, atheists have no reason for believing that the laws of physics won't change radically tomorrow. Theists do.
Why's that? If a superhero from outer space can change the rules whenever he feels like it, doesn't that make theism the viewpoint whose axioms sit on shaky ground?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
You mean #14, which cites not only Arabic numerals, but algebra?
Oddly, it also lists trigonometry as a Muslim invention. I know Pythagoras was ahead of his time, but that seems a bit much...
I think you're confusing atheism with nihilism, or existentialism. It's not the same as either. Just because you interpret atheism as a great yawning pit of despair doesn't mean that it implies that for all its adherents.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Now therefore, O kings, show discernment;
Take warning, O judges of the earth.
Worship the LORD with reverence
And rejoice with trembling.
Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way,
For His wrath may soon be kindled
How blessed are all who take refuge in Him!
Psalm 2:10-12
...because "hacker" sounds way sexier than "code drone."
What contradictory trash.
On the one hand, your civilization goes back 5000 years.
On the other hand, the Muslims "forcibly converted" their conquered peoples.
If that were really the case, your community wouldn't still be around!
How stupid do you think we are?
Achievements by muslims have been overshadowed by religious fundamentalism for centuries. No- really. Look at the list of innovations. The Muslim world goes completely dead after a certain mile-marker in the history books.
Is it our fault to realize it and point it out? Or is it their fault for not recognizing the problems with their society and doing something to correct it?
We keep hearing about how Muslims aren't a bunch of heathen, god-crazed warriors. How they're peace-loving, rich in culture, etc. Yet, we keep seeing time and time again examples of a violent, xenophobic society completely out of control and dedicated to nothing but the destruction or domination of all other societies and cultures...and no other religion or society is as quick to rush to violence or as intense when it does so.
When was the last time you saw a Unitarian Universalist blow themselves up in a market square?
Please help metamoderate.
But like most things it gets over shadowed by the negative, which is what is normally reported by the media.
Are you sure of what you're asking for here?
"Sure, he may have eaten the flesh of delicious babies, and ground their bones to make his bread, but he gave that bread to soup kitchens, where it fed many hungry people. So, a big hand for this dude, feeder of the hungry."
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
An enormous fluff piece on the centuries-old accomplishments of a religion now better known for its murderers than anything else, and you take it as evidence of anti-Muslim sentiment? Can I score some of what you're smoking?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I'm not sure I speak for many of my fellow slashdotters, but I certainly have disdain for Christians who seek to enslave science to religion, or to replace science with religion. This isn't the same as being a Christian dabbling in science.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
[...] but to dismiss a whole religion, one of the largest in the world, and all its adherents as evil or stupid, is just bigoted.
I don't think anyone here is dismissing every adherent of Islam as evil or stupid. I can think that Islam is a vile death cult without thinking that all of its adherents are mad bombers. (And how does Islam's size place it beyond criticism? Is it okay to make fun of religions, as long as they're small?)
And why, then, is anything at all beyond criticism? You're not complaining about bigots calling every last Muslim a crazy-ass headchopper, but rather trying to exclude criticism of the religion itself beyond debate. But the nature of Islam itself is very, very relevant to this discussion.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
I posted part of this in a thread below, but then I realized the full text of the psalm was relevant to the discussion. The translation is from the NASB (New American Standard Bible).
It does indeed speak of the Messiah ('His Annointed') as being the son of YHWH ('the LORD').
Why are the nations in an uproar
And the peoples devising a vain thing?
The kings of the earth take their stand
And the rulers take counsel together
Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying,
"Let us tear their fetters apart
And cast away their cords from us!"
He who sits in the heavens laughs,
The Lord scoffs at them.
Then He will speak to them in His anger
And terrify them in His fury, saying,
"But as for Me, I have installed My King
Upon Zion, My holy mountain."
"I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD:
He said to Me, 'You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
'Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance,
And the very ends of the earth as Your possession.
'You shall break them with a rod of iron,
You shall shatter them like earthenware.'"
Now therefore, O kings, show discernment;
Take warning, O judges of the earth.
Worship the LORD with reverence
And rejoice with trembling.
Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way,
For His wrath may soon be kindled
How blessed are all who take refuge in Him!
And here again from Young's Literal Translation (I'm sorry I don't have online access to any Jewish sources, but I can't imagine they're much different.):
Why have nations tumultuously assembled? And do peoples meditate vanity?
Station themselves do kings of the earth, And princes have been united together, Against Jehovah, and against His Messiah:
`Let us draw off Their cords, And cast from us Their thick bands.'
He who is sitting in the heavens doth laugh, The Lord doth mock at them.
Then doth He speak unto them in His anger, And in His wrath He doth trouble them:
`And I -- I have anointed My King, Upon Zion -- My holy hill.'
I declare concerning a statute: Jehovah said unto me, `My Son Thou [art], I to-day have brought thee forth.
Ask of Me and I give nations -- thy inheritance, And thy possession -- the ends of earth.
Thou dost rule them with a sceptre of iron, As a vessel of a potter Thou dost crush them.'
And now, O kings, act wisely, Be instructed, O judges of earth,
Serve ye Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Chosen One, lest He be angry, And ye lose the way, When His anger burneth but a little, O the happiness of all trusting in Him!
...because "hacker" sounds way sexier than "code drone."
The problem with this kind of thing is that if the inventor of record hadn't come up with the idea, someone else would have. All the earlier discoveries/inventions leading to the invention in question are still there for another to find and put the pieces together.
It appears that inventiveness is as much a matter of being in the right place at the right time as anything else.
Indeed; one wonders if the obsession with honor, respect and machismo among the Islamic nations has something to do with a creeping inferiority complex, given that the largest windfall in history (trillions in oil profits) have been dropped on the Islamic nations, and what have they to show for it? Some expensive vacations to Europe, nations full of oppressed and subjugated women, and laughable attempts to blame the Jews for all of it.
Half of the faculty in the engineering department where I went to school came from Islamic nations. It's clearly nothing wrong with the people there; they just have to flee to the West to get anything useful done. How on earth did they get such bad leadership, and how can we make sure it doesn't happen here?
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
"By Christians' definitions, Jesus _cannot_ be the Jewish messiah."
That's a pretty controversial statement to make without support. Perhaps I just don't follow your logic, since the previous sentence seems to mistakenly use "Christian" twice in stead of "Jewish" (in one of those places, though I'm not sure which one).
I would appreciate it if you would clarify this.
Also (and please forgive me for any misconception, as I have already stated that I don't understand what you were trying to say), what is your operating Christian definition that excludes Jesus from being the Jewish Messiah?
I say this because I am a Christian, and I believe that Jesus was, is, and will be the Jewish Messiah. It's just that he was rejected by his brothers the first time around (much like Joseph, Moses, and David), and so he was sent to the gentiles (much like Joseph, Moses, and David) for a time, but (much like Joseph, Moses, and David) will return to his people Israel and be their deliverer. The fact that this has not yet happened does not (especially in the eyes of Christians) make him any less the Jewish Messiah.
So, if you would, please clarify your statements in the light of this.
...because "hacker" sounds way sexier than "code drone."
You make a great point with the Mongols, but I wished you emphasized your last point. The Mongols had a very simple shamanistic religion, but would convert to the religion of whatever was domininant in a particular region. For instance, I recall that at a point when a lot of Muslim land was taken, the Khan at the time converted to Islam. In fact, some of the greatest Mosques at the time were created by the Mongols.
The independent and the exihibit take great liberty at attributing the works/inventions from Persia as being from the Muslim world. Very loose and creative liberty there. Outside of very recent history, Persia (now most commonly known as Iran)simply should not be included with the middle east and the "muslim" world.
I'm talking major, fundamental discoveries. Cars, planes, lightbulbs, vaccines, etc. The TV is just a fancy lightbulb with a telephone attached and many of our modern day inventions are just new takes on 19th inventions. You mention the internet, but I already covered that when I mentioned that the integrated circuit was one of the only two big inventions of the 20th century. We've been expanding that out ever since. If you look at a list of 19th century inventions and compared it with today's list, you may start to see what I'm talking about. Yes, more stuff gets patented these days, but almost none of it deserves it. We have more gadgets, but they only incrementally build on what came before. The 19th century was like a technological revolution by comparison.
While the religion of the inventor might have nothing to do with the invention, surely the society as a whole does. The fact that these early Muslims were brilliant in Math and Astronomy among other things (including religion and Islamic law) is that Islamic ritual demanded such inventions. Otherwise how would the growing Muslim community figure out the direction to Mecca and times of day to perform the 5 daily prayers, and also find places and ways to perform wudu (the cleaning ritual before making these prayers). Also if a society was closed-minded, it would not tolerate new ideas or debate of ideas. You can see Arabs before Islam and after it to realize the influence of the new religion in all aspects of their life. To even further see that, remember the effect of the current cartoons that mock the Prophet of Islam on the Muslim world. Islam is a living thing in the hearts of Muslims that could be used as either a great motivation or a powerful brain-washing tool.r powerful brain-washing tool.
-- 0x0666
This is inane.
I'll grant you that the underpinnings of cars, airplanes, washing machines, and light-bulbs predate the twentieth century, but the rate of increase of knowledge has never been greater than it is today. Just because the fruits of this knowlege don't manifest as objects the size of Volkswagens is no basis for claiming that western civilization is on the slide.
The twentieth century redefined physics. It invented computers and computer science -- and to dismiss those under the umbrella of the integrated circuit or the transistor does them a tremendous injustice.
Now, I'm not saying we're NOT on the decline --- everytime I have the misfortune of watching more than five minutes of prime-time TV it makes me want to start hoarding spices because they'll be valuable once civilization collapses and we revert to a barter economy --- I'm just saying that the advances we're making today are a little less obvious but no less significant than those of a century ago.
i.e. Galileo Galilei and Charles Darwin.
Here is an interesting book that is now public domain:
http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/whitewtc.html
A HISTORY OF THE WARFARE OF SCIENCE WITH THEOLOGY IN CHRISTENDOM
by ANDREW DICKSON WHITE
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
Okay... lets compare the number of government endorsed stonings over the past 50 years?
Personally I the Christianity is full of it any way.
In the Old Testament stoning is an acceptable punishment. In the New Testament it isnt. Should we forgive Usama, if he changes his mind and says that blowing up the WTC is bad? Then why should be accept an evil religion that advocated beating people to death with rocks? If the diety wants someone stoned for a crime, let him or her do their own dirty work, just like they did to the first born in Egypt.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
There seems to be some pretty substantial innovation in the realm of IEDs recently.
suicide bomber?
Muslims were a great influence on math and science, thousands of years ago, but name for me ONE SINGLE INVENTION OF ANY SIGNIFICANCE to come out of a muslim country in the past 200 years. There isn't one.
These 1001 inventions are ALL from the glory days of Islam, and therein lies the problem. The Muslim religion has KILLED all crativity. They got left behind at the industrial age and THIS IS THE VERY REASON THEY ARE BITTER TODAY.
They got so full of their success that they became complacent, and the world passed them by. When they woke up to this fact, in the early 20th century, it was too late. People whom they used to "rule" over had surpassed them in every fashion because they chose to live in such a closed society within their Ottoman Empire.
When they realized that they were falling behind, they decided to force anyone (male) with any potential into one of two fields - medicine and engineering. They would send them abroad to attend the finest schools and then bring them back to try and bring any knowledge back into their folds. Think about it: Osama Bin Laden is an Engineer; Ayman al-Zawahiri is a doctor. Neither chose their profession, they were just recognized as having a few brains in their head and given one of two choices.
However, none of this changed the fact that the religion of Islam rejects modernity in every form, so this new influx of knowledge did nothing to stem the tide, the downward spiral of their entire culture. So they did a little introspection to try and figure out why they were failing as a culture. They decided that they needed to return to their 7th century roots, which is exactly the wrong approach.
Muslims are embarassed by the fact that they are so pathetic, and for good reason. The only answer for them is to embrace modernity. Until then, they can drive on the roads we've designed, sell the oil that we pumped for them, live in the buildings that we showed them how to build, using tractors and construction equipment purhcased from us. They'll continue to drive around in thieir German/European/Italian/American cars. They can continue treating their patients in their hospitals using medical textbooks written by the hated Christians and Jews, using techniques learned in Medical colleges that they attended outside their countries. And they can continue to resent us for this until they decide to wake up to modernity.
Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
1-Coffee-- TFA admits it was invented before Islam. Doesn't mention that it was drunk by the ancient Mayans thousands of years before that.
2-Optics- Ibn al-Haitham may have been the first to speculate that light travels from object to the eye, but it is highly dubious that he was `the first man to shift physics from a philosophical activity to an experimental one'.
3-Chess (as we know it)- actually, the current rules for chess date back only a couple hundred years. It was invented in India, and, while it was present in the Arab world, chess playing is forbidden in Islam.
4-the parachute
5-soap and shampoo- the TFA admits that Muslims didn't really invent them. It also refers to Westerners as `crusaders' and implies that they stink.
6-Chemistry-TFA claims Jabir ibn Hayyan `transformed alchemy into chemistry'. No comment necessary.
7-Robots-TFA claims 12th- C. `ingenious Muslim engineer' al-Jazari `was the father of robotics'. Again, no comment necessary.
8-Quilting
9-Pointed Arches
10-Sundry sugical techniques-- `Ibn Nafis described the circulation of the blood, 300 years before William Harvey discovered it'- just like Democritus described the atom, etc.
11-Windmill
12-`The technique of inoculation was not invented by Jenner and Pasteur but was devised in the Muslim world'-- and brought over to Europe, no less. I wonder why Pasteur never heard of this?
13-Fountain pen
14-contributions to math--big topic; I have shown the Islamic contribution to math is less than they claim (elsewhere)
15-3 course meals-- I hereby invent the 23-course meal. nyah!
16-carpets-- apparently Muslims believe there are carpets in heaven. Who knew?
17-the cheque-- more like an IOU, as described in TFA
18-Astronomical facts-- the koran states that the sun sets in a puddle in the desert every night. `Nuff said.
19-Gunpowder as a weapon-- leave it to the Muslims...
20-Gardens for pleasure-- TFA says this concept was invented by Muslims, but these were present in the Ancient world for millenia before Islam
In short, TFA is a group-identity- puff piece, designed to distract from Islam's real contributions to the world: terrorism, unstability, etc., etc.
The toad can't burp - and for some reason can't fart either, so it swells up and eventually explodes. --Anonymous Coward
travel to Indonesia, Pakistan, Iran, Central Asia, Africa and Turkey as well as Arabia
:)
Nah, I think I'll take your word for it.
What is so sad, is that your idea would work. I live in OK. And I assure you, you would get a seriously "negative response" to being an atheist here.
I posted anon because I am embarrassed about that fact. OK is not the most open-minded or "well traveled" of places.
...nothing to see, move along folks...
Fast machines, powerfull AI, impulsive invention,... All I lack is a good espresso machine!
The Arabs and Persians did invent a few remarkable things, so therefore we must give them credit for the things they clearly did not invent because of the signifcance of the things they did invent.
Historical accuracy and honesty is not as important as making sure every culture, race, and religion "feel good" about themselves in modern society.
But what have they done for me lately?
(also, why did someone tag this post as flamebait? Is it no longer possible to discuss technology invented by another culture without it denegrating into a flamewar? Seriously? That's depressing as hell.)
isaiah 40:22 was written about 300 years before the greek knew it.
It started in China/India/Greece/etc BUT "muslims" perfected it? Which is the very argument they are trying to say is wrong about the "West"!
Most of theses inventions will be found to be Cristian Arabs too. One of Arabia's greatest scientists could not stand Islam. He said it stifled thought and made men dumb!
... these were all invented before 1001 A.D. Go figure.
I find it interesting that number 11 on the list says the windmill was invented my Muslims in 634 to grind corn? If my memory serves me correctly corn was not known at that time and corn actually came from the Americas after its pseudo discovery by Columbus. I smell something fishy......
> In a perfect world, we'd give everyone credit for their accomplishments without even noting their sexual preference, race, religion, sex, national origin, disability status, age, veteran status, height, weight, hair color, absence or presence of hair, musical tastes, et bloody cetera ... but we're a long way from that right now.
Or we'd get over dividing ourselves along those lines altogether and, say, celebrate *human* accomplishments.
But I'm not holding my breath.
Islam also invented:
Homocide bombers
Comicstripophobia (fear of comic strips)
The child size dynamite belt
Mindless following of a child molester -- (Well, technically Michael Jackson fans do this too but the Moslums did it first!)
The latest and greatest improvement since the Qassam Missle.
NOT
Item number one is coffee, an export of Christian Ethiopia.
I stopped reading there. "1001 things Muslims had before Europeans" is not the same as "1001 Islamic Inventions".
Can you really claim responsibility for something that was an ENGLISHMAN's addiction? And probably his suggestion, too? We have to credit the ENGLISHMAN for bringing his Ragusan servant to England, and hosting levees (morning parties) to make the drink so popular that the servant could make a go at the coffeehouse.
The weight of evidence seems to be in favour of Rosee, who was servant to a Turkey merchant named Edwards. Having acquired the coffee-drinking habit in Turkey, Mr. Edwards was accustomed to having his servant prepare the beverage for him in his London house, and the new drink speedily attracted a levee of curious onlookers and tasters. Evidently the company grew too large to be convenient, and at this juncture Mr. Edwards suggested that Rosee should set up as a vendor of the drink. He did so, and a copy of the prospectus he issued on the occasion still exists. It set forth at great length "the virtue of the Coffee Drink First publiquely made and sold in England by Pasqua Rosee," the berry of which was described as "a simple innocent thing" but yielding a liquor of countless merits.
Rosee is describes as a "Ragusan" in some documents ... and "Ragusa" was not Islamic in the 1600s - it is modern-day Dubrovnik. They acknowledged the Ottomans - to the extent that they paid them tribute - but they were NOT islamic. Ragusa was well-known for its staunch, almost fanatical support of Roman Catholicism. They used the Ottomans to stave off the Venetians, a common ploy of the region and times.
Nadir and azimuth are from Arabic too.
sig semper tyrannis!
I haven't RTFA. The section you quoted is based on a true story, but is not completely accurate.
People in Turkey practiced inoculation against smallpox using scabs from humans. They actually had a sort of party where people would pass around the scabs. Usually this resulted in a mild, survivable case of smallpox. You'd get a bunch of pockmarks, but at least your chance of dying from the disease was reduced from about 20% to about 5%.
This info was taken back to England by a globetrotting noblewoman. It sounded too good to be true, but after some very unethical experiments on prisoners, the English figured out the scheme really did work, and so they joined the inoculation club. Things continued in this way for about a hundred years.
Enter Jenner. He noticed that milkmaids had wonderfully clear complexions. At least, they weren't covered with pockmarks like everyone else.
Somehow he figured out that this was because they were being exposed to cowpox -- which is like smallpox, except that only cows really have to worry about dying from it.
So Jenner demonstrated that exposure to live cowpox could prevent smallpox, without having to deal with even a mild case of smallpox. So everyone benefits (except for the cow). He called this vaccination, from the Latin word for "cow".
This was especially good because, since actual cases smallpox were not needed for vaccination, the disease itself could be eradicated from an area.
Of course, although Jenner's work was important, he probably wouldn't have managed it without first knowning about inoculation. Shoulders of giants and all that.
let's see...jihad, IEDs, zero tolerance cartoon portrayal policy...what else?
Every right to be outraged at insulting comments? Sure. Let them speak. Let them tell the world just how pissed off they are. Write letters to newspapers, stage boycotts, express your views, by all means.
Don't demonstrate violently, burn down embassies and threaten lives.
im sure if one of your core beleifs was disgustingly insulted with a bunch of fallacies, you would demand a stop to it as well...after all, with freedom comes responsibility...
Nope. That's the thing about free speech. If someone says something I find insulting, I'll stop listening. I'll tell others that I didn't think it was worthwhile listening to. What I won't do, is try and stop that person from speaking.
Remember, you do not have the right to not be offended.
Less than 10 people in all of US history have been murdered by moronic anti-abortionists.
Hmm.
What about the Crusades? Those killed plenty of Jews and Arabs.
How about the long-running violence in Ireland? That's Christians killing Christians, Protestant against Catholic.
If you really want to find good bloodthirsty Christian-run killing, you're better off looking at the poorer nations. Rich, fat, happy people don't generally run around killing people. Indonesia's had plenty of killing on both halves. If you want something recent, try Nigeria.
The moral of the story? Religion is trouble, no matter what guise it comes in.
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
In 624 Abu Bakr (Muhammad's daily companion and one of his first believers and successor of Muhammad) gave Muhammad his daughter Aisha when she was six years old, although the actual marriage was not consummated until she was nine. This fact is uncontested by all Muslim scholars and chroniclers without exception.
Perhaps the answer to the problem of teenagers dropping bricks from motorway and railway bridges is to sue Tetris.
it was a lot harder to get into trouble with Communist Party doctrine as a pure mathematician than as a physicist (who might wind up using "Jewish physics" like relativity or quantum mechanics)
You are mixing up Communists and Nazis. Nazis banned relativity and quantum mechanics as "Jewish physics". By contrast, Soviet leaders (despite being antisemitic) recognized that Jewish physicists and physics were absolutely vital for building nukes and missiles.
The real reason Soviet physics started to fall behind the West was that
a. an enormous number of talented European Jewish physicists had fled to America in the 1930's, while nobody wanted to flee to Stalin's welcoming arms;
b. for some time in the 1940s-1950s, computer science was considered to be anti-Soviet, which meant that Soviet computer technology (vital for physics!) remained a decade or so behind the West all the way to the end of the Cold War;
c. too large a percentage of Soviet physicists were put to work in the military industrial complex, and many of their discoveries were classified. By contrast, in the post-WW2 West, most physicists tended to do unclassified work in the universities.
Please vote the poll http://ictreligion.blogspot.com/2006/02/religion.h tml
God and religion are distinct
Muslims also don't have much of a grasp of their history either. Islam's idea that they are descended from Avraham is equally ridiculous. Islam is descended from the pagan idolatry of the arabs.
Mohammed borrowed the idea of monotheism from the Jews, and then twisted the ideas of judaism to try to reduce or eliminate it's pervasive influence in the region during his time. The muslims don't read the Torah. Their religious texts is the writings of Mohammed.
Much like the Christians borrowed many of the pagan holidays and replaced them with Christian holidays.. to reduce or eliminate the pervasive influence of pagan worship in their midst.
Muslims actually originally worshipped 360 gods. Their god Sin aka Hubul, was the god of the moon. Was later called al-ilah, or the one god. That is why atop the minarettes of muslim temples, there is a crescent moon. Read more about the pagan history of islam.
The idea that islam had anything to do with judiasm before mohammed is complete ignorance or insanity. Not that islam or christianity re bad relgions, but attempting to legitimize their beliefs by twisted the history of judiasm is foolishness. Let them stand on their own merit.
Any fool can criticise, condemn, and complain, and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
What's the word to describe this? Not irony.. but?
Any fool can criticise, condemn, and complain, and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
.. As well as the wooden club used to smite our enemies.
/. bozos can claim THAT?
How many of you
.
- aqk
F U
Heard of Kamikaze's what? And who is Kamikaze?
Never heard of him. (or her)
Personally I think this is a sad reflection on a lot of the readers of slashdot.
If it hadn't been for Islamic societies during the 8th to 13th centuries the world would not be anywhere near as advanced as it is today. During the dark ages it was Muslim societies that kept the libraries of Greek texts, advanced maths and science and developed building and architecture.
Visit southern Spain and see the only part of Europe that was remotely civilised between the fall of the Romans and the 14th century and marvel at the fantastic Islamic arcitecture.
Why every time Islam is mentioned do you ingrates have to drag the discussion down to a level of name calling and arguing about how the Judea-Christian (i.e. American) history is superior? This is about technology and science NOT you trying to feel superior.
The telephone, the telegraph, television, and antibiotics aren't "Christian inventions", and those "1001 Islamic inventions" are not "Islamic inventions" either.
Islam is a religion, like Christianity, Judaism, and many others. As a religion, Islam is largely not concerned with inventions, and when people who happen to be of a particular faith invent something, it's usually a coincidence.
Trying to portray those inventions as "Islamic inventions" is a misrepresentation intended to improve the perception rational Westerners have of that religion. But whether some Muslim 1000 years ago had the freedom to invent something has nothing to do with what role modern Islam plays in the world.
Lack of clue detected. This is an old joke, and so is mine.
...it states about Crusaders stinking in the part about the islamic invention of refined soap.
It appears that that article is now subscription only :
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
Would that make the A-Bomb a Jewish invention?
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
If I'm not mistaken, hose surgery techniques existed hundreds of years before they were "discovered" by Islam. Tools like scalpels, suction needles, and specula were in use in Roman surgery long before the date given in the article.
I don't understand this obsession with "People of the Book" among Christians, Muslims and Jews. Why are Non-Booky-People relegated to the periphery. I read this sort of thing all the time in US newspapers. There is absolutely no sensitivity to the fact that half the world is made up of Non-Bookies. Don't they deserve to be treated with decency? Isn't it a form of discrimination to speak of POtB? I don't understand how otherwise educated and intelligent people - both here and in the MSM - can continue to use the term POtB? BTW, When much of India was being ruled by Muslims of Persian, Afghan, Turk and Arab origin (interbred, of course), Hindus were given the following choices: convert, die, or pay what was called the Jaziya Tax if they didn't comply. The Portuguese Catholics who spent a few hundred years on the West Coast of India streamlined things a bit: convert or die a slow, horrible, painful death. Yeah, nobody likes to talk about the Portuguese Inquisition in India. I'm done with that -- but ... I agree that there is nothing "Islamic" about these inventions. The Islamic world is not monolithic. Islam was not responsible for the inventions -- smart people were. Any many of the "inventions" -- the decimal system, soap/shampoo, plastic surgery, surgical instruments, toothbrushing with Margosa/Neem, the shape of the earth, astronomical calculations, etc., came from the Hindus. The classical Arabs themselves call the decimal system the Hindu system -- they never claimed credit for it -- I wouldn't blame them for the behaviors of today's disaffected Muslims.
The religion of Islam has nothing to do with these inventions or discoveries.
I couldn't find Jihad listed anywhere. Or was it the west that invented that?
However you missed something: In there glory days muslims also had a good drink of wine and cup coffee as well. In fact they had so much coffee that "don't drink as much coffee as a musmlim" is a saying in germany (Original: "C-A-F-F-E-E - Trink nich so viel caffee - sei doch kein Muselman der ihn nicht lassen kann.").
So I think they where a different kind of muslim at that time as well. Far more relaxed. Only later "new" interpretations of there religion made them what they are today. Which is worse then beeing complacent. One usualy can accept that (My fault - I should not have been so lazy). But religious interpretation....
Martin
Have you noticed that all people with the name Al are great invetors. Al Gore invented the Internet. Perhaps he is of Arab ancestory
"Christians don't seem to have a clue for the most part about any of the texts of the Torah.. if they did, they would have a hard time believing Christ was the Messiah."
When Jesus explained the scriptures to the Jews many of the doctrinally knowledgable, that had lots of "clue" about the prophesies, at that time did accept that he was the Son of God and the Messiah, even if they didn't fully understand with his (then) current mission was.
I understand that you may not agree with the New Testament account, but according to the Jews that wrote it, it wasn't doctrinal differences that kept many Jews people from believing Jesus was the Messiah any more than in the Old Testament it was doctrinal differences that kept many of the Israelites from believing what Moses (or Samuel, or Nathan, or Elijah, etc.) told them.
I also accept that you probably don't agree with the Jews that did accept Jesus as the Messiah back then, but I wanted to make sure that you didn't ignore the terms (according to those that did accept) on which they did accept Him.
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
How do people justify a claim to believe that Jesus was a prophet, and not accept His statements about Him being the fulfillment of prophesy, and who His Father is? Do people also say "Well Moses was a prophet, but he was probably making it up when he said that Pharaoh should let the people go?"
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
The complaints against Islam were intended to be racist.
How do you know? It sounds like you are mind-reading.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
If you want to start with the one with the greatest pentiant for killing, then we should start with Christianity as Christian nations have been responsible for several magnitudes more deaths than any other religion this past century.
Prove it. Make sure you take into account Muslim imperialism.
But then you would prabobly have to take a long hard look at yourself, whcih is far less appealing than pointing fingers.
I am an ex-Christian and an anti-Christian. I routinely beat Christians under the table for their sanctimony, their hypocrisy, and their religious-inspired abuse. As a gay adoptive parent, I have good reason to.
At the same time, I freely admit that every bad thing that I see in Christianity I see to an even greater degree in Islam. Can you prove otherwise? Perhaps you can try by openly discussing with me the state of gay rights and the rights of adoptive parents under Shari'a.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
My point actually had nothing to do with criticising Christianity. Nothing at all. My point was that you could just as reasonably* claim that Christians hate the things --
I don't see how you can claim that your point had "nothing to do with criticizing Christianity" when you are implicity criticizing Christianity. Are you, perhaps, merely saying, "I'm not criticizing Christianity, but I understand that you could defend Islam by stating that such criticisms of Islam also apply to Christianity!"? If that is the case, then I agree with you that one could argue that way, but it is merely a "tu quoque" defense that does not render invalid the criticisms of Islam.
So the attempt to align Muslims with Nazis on this basis was flawed.
Any attempt to align anyone with Nazis is flawed. I think Islam's deficiencies stand on their own. Who needs Nazis when you can merely observe Islam and see its proclivities for violent imperialism, subjugation of women, abrogration of press freedoms, degredation of non-Islamic cultures, murder of homosexuals, barbaric justice system, and desecration of art?
My point was, as I believe I hinted at, that such terms describe such a vast number of people --
I am criticizing the religion, not individual Muslims or "all Muslims".
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
1. Body counts
Fair enough. Are you sure that Western violence/war exceeds that of Islamic Jihad?
2. Epic cultural destruction
My first thought is, "So what?" My second thought is: do you not realize that Muslims widely regard all non-Islamic cultures as trash? Are you not aware that part of the jihad is to eradicate these cultures? Do you fail to see the destruction of priceless buddhist statues in the name of Allah?
3. Economic terrorism
That is likely Marxist garbage.
If you can reference incidents where Jihad has caused death, pain and suffering we can start to tally them up and see how they compare against Western "Protecting National Interests".
My god, where to start! Certainly you are aware that Muhammad was a barbarian who conquered the Arabian peninsula by force?
We are not fighting "a bully".
Like hell we aren't. The idea that Islam will conquer the entire world is a mainstream Muslim belief. Not an "extremist" belief. A mainstream belief. The penalty for homosexuality in Islam is death. The religion is to be spread with lies (I have had Muslims on Slahdot admit that lying is "sometimes permissible") and violence (jihad). This has been the pattern of Islam since its inception. How did the Muslims end up owning Spain? By invading it and conquering it by violence!
The USA has been involved with Islamic terrorists since before it was a phrase. The USA played a crucial role in developing what are now known as "the terrorist networks".
In other words, the Islamic Muhajideen are only bad because the evil USA had their evil tentacles where they didn't belong.
The USA has more sole searching to do than any Muslim. But I have not heard anything from official US representatives that suggests they are going to rethink policies so as to improve the lives of everyone on the planet rather than a select few.
If you think that the USA is evil, then it makes sense that you would impose that kind of penance on them.
You could say that this is what 9/11 was all about.
Of cousre. The fact that we aren't allowing the Muslims to run rough-shod over the world and impose Shari'a by force on everyone is "oppression" to the Muslims. The fact that we resist them is "bullying" to them.
I do not see "capitalism" as _the problem_. I do see the USA's economic policies as a major part of the problem.
Specifically?
As do I, but the USA seems to be above accountability.
That is code for, "The USA deserves to be punished because they're evil". You are an anti-American hate-slave and I'm done. I think you hate the USA so much that if a Muslim terrorist were to murder me then you would see that as an awesome opportunity to bash the USA.
I don't make the rules. I just make fun of them.
Short Article to the heart of the subject by a former muslim: Can Islam, Koran and Muhammad Command Unqualified Respect from the Westerners? .9, Book 89, Num. 271.
I heard the Prophet saying, "In the last days (of the world) there will appear young people with foolish thoughts and ideas. They will give good talks, but they will go out of Islam as an arrow goes out of its game, their faith will not exceed their throats. So wherever you find them, kill them, for there will be a reward for their killers on the Day of Resurrection." Sahih Bukhari Vol.6, Book 61, Num. 577.
islam is offensive.
also, koran says if you obey Mo, you obey god and Mo is perfect and a model for humans for all times.
Mo ordered the assassination of at least 2 people whose only guilt is they criticized him: Asmat bint Marwan and Kaab ibn Ashraf
He ordered the execution of 600 jews from the tribe of banu qureiza (all males above 12)
check also
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t= 12658&highlight=
http://www.sudanactivism.com/speakers.html
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/MAKhan60207.htm
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t= 12658&highlight= http://www.faithfreedom.org/ http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t= 16317 http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p= 269251#269251
The following
http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db/read.php?i dx=516 should be the object of protest NOT Cartoons.
You should familiarize yourself with what the koran has in store for you:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t= 12658&highlight=
koran 09:29 orders believers to fight non-believers until they pay tribute tax called jizya and feel themselves subdued: http://www.geocities.com/realitywithbite/islamandu nbelievers.htm "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Qur'an 9:29. Under Islam, Jews and Christians had three choices: convert to Islam, retain their religion and pay tax or fight. Pagans and atheists had two choices Islam or the sword.
Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said: "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him'." Sahih Bukhari Vol. 9, Book 84, Num. 57. Also Vol. 9, Book 83 Num.17. Narrated Abu Musa: A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him ( as it is ) the verdict of Allah and his Apostle." Bukhari Vol