Can't do much about that speed of light thing. Web browsing becomes an email-like experience. Wow, finally everybody gets to experience the internet just like RMS!
TCP become a hugely inappropriate protocol. Something like Rsync over UDP would be way better. Slow start... give me a break. Ditto, most of TCP.
Twitter stops being relevant at all, who cares about tweeting old news, or hearing it. Refining a web search... just don't bother, instead SCP Earth's entire web archive once a year and incrementally update it as bandwidth allows. Not much internet left after all the latency hacks, it hardly seems worth even trying to think of it that way. Basically, you will have Marsnet and Earthnet and data oozing in excruciating non-real time back and forth between them.
Actually, you're the one who needs to tune their value. LKML gets more like 1000 messages a day, and Linus can easily average 20 a day, or more, just to LKML. That doesn't count al the other forums he posts to. Linus is an email machine.
Yes, it's encouraging how much mesa work is already done even for OGL 4.5. Remember when mesa was stuck for years at 2.1 plus extensons? A very nice 2.1, but preventing serious use for a lot of modern rendering techniques.
At one time, mesa was pretty much a one man project, now there is obviously some serious funding behind it.
So you can play a 7 year old game on a 4 year old card? That's not saying much.
It means that card could always play a 3 year old game. I'm running more recent games than that on random low end Radeons. Lots of Steam stuff, no complaints. I refuse to plug in the kind of card that runs the latest Far Cry full res on a 30 inch monitor with all features on just because I find the power suck, heat and fan noise really irritating. For the 99% of gamers who aren't hardcore shooter addicts, a $100 AMD card does the job perfectly well, and quietly.
We're nearing the point where you can buy a graphics card, plug it in, and it "just works." The main issue is that it could take months for the bleeding edge to make it into the latest kernel, so brand new GPUs could be problematic.
+1. All my latest Radeon installs have been: buy it, plug it in, it works. That is because I always check this matrix before deciding which card to buy. Note that it is now green all the way to the right on nearly every hardware feature you care about. A notable exception is OpenCL, which is WIP. If I wanted to develop with it right now, that would move me back to fglrx, and only that. Notice how the latest chipsets are the ones with OpenCL closest to prime time.
OpenGL: Actually is Open and if you keep up with the newer releases you'll note that a lot of the miraculous features promised in Mantle seem strangely similar to features that were already available in OpenGL.....
The big deal in the recent OGL 4.5 release is direct state access, for huge efficiency and robustness gains, while also being easier to code. Long time coming, that, but better they should take their time and get it right.
I don't know that AMD was strongly influenced by OpenGL advances, it seems more the other way round. AMD seems to be backing the move to make OpenGL work more like Mantle.
Also, the AMD buyout gave ATI access to better process technology. Without that, ATI might have gotten stompted by NVidia and we would have a graphics monoculture on desktops right now. Yuck. For the same reason I am glad that AMD never stomped NVidia, though it came close.
The last bout I had with NVidia was really annoying. Switch to text console and, whee, nice black screen. Yum. Got to love that Quadro experience. That was just one of many severe glitches. Haven't run that binary NVidia crap for many years now, very happy with the open source Radeon drivers and nice hardware. I really need to wonder if/why you're trolling. Got anything to add based on your last ten years experience? Didn't think so.
Maybe one day Nouveau will catch up to where the Xorg Radeon drivers got to years ago. Wake me up when that happens, maybe then I will take another flyer on NVidia.
Just say no to crap binary video driver blobs, I don't care what hardware or bespoke OS you are talking about, proprietary crap is proprietary crap.
$ lspci | grep AMD 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Park [Mobility Radeon HD 5430] 01:00.1 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Cedar HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 5400/6300 Series]
Zero glitches, hangs or weirdness in the last several years with this or my other Radeon cards. Using the Xorg drivers. Includes heavy OpenGL hacking and way too much Civ V.
Right, not only do the top of the line firebreathing cpu and memory cost a disproportionate amount of money, they tend to eat significantly more power, run hotter and create more fan noise. And the high end SSDs have a smaller user base, therefore higher likelihood of unknown/unfixed bugs. So moderation is really the key to being a happy high end box consumer. Even though one tends to feel some sense of loss when settling on only the second or third fastest part, it only takes a short time for that to turn into a sense of smug satisfaction as the next generation lands, where even the budget parts blow away the specs of the old high power, high cost, geek trophies. Unhealthy envy of the bad old high end parts turns immediately into healthy and actionable envy of the shiny new budget parts.
Well, I guess $1300 only qualifies you as "performance" not "high end". OTOH, it's getting hard to find a $5k PC to buy... remember when high end always meant $5K? Not that long ago.Today, load up a box with as much memory as the motherboard can take, more SSD than you really need and a stupidly powerful GPU and it only costs $3K. And even then, you will be feeling small and slow in a couple of years, compared to the latest disk prices etc.
Erm, if Red Hat ever behaved differently from exactly they way they behave today, I am not aware of it. Red Hat has always been about undermining community projects and putting their own people in place, or buying up key developers if that doesn't work.
I'd also be happy to buy a tiny computer based on an ARM chip, but I'd rather have full Linux than just ChromeOS so I probably won't buy a "ChromeBox".)
Full Linux runs on ChromeThings with various degrees of hardware support. I would like that too, though keep in mind that once you start putting full scale application demands on an ARM it starts hitting a rather similar power envelope to AMD's APUs. The win for ARM is part costs... those things are produced on way huger scale than anything by AMD, and sell for way less than Intel can possibly afford (given that shareholders have become dependent on a certain level of monopoly-blessed income). And you get: gyros, GPS, accelerometer, MicroSD, etc. Because you know it is really a handset chipset.
Actually, it's only a matter of time until PC chipsets get completely killed by handset chipsets coming complete with way more gizmos, costing next to nothing. But we're not there yet. In practice, if you want to run a desktop and not kill your eyes, wrists and neck, you are stuck with PC hardware.
All the Android Apps which work on the A316 work on the Z1 too...
Hmm, Open Mobile's proprietary ACL looks like the smartest move Samsung made in the whole slow motion Tizen trainwreck. Obviously, completely incompatible with an open source drop unless Samsung outright buys the company and releases it Google style, which is about the only possible why they could claw back their tarnished cred at this point. No doubt, ACL is just 99% BSD licensed Android libs, which demonsrates why Google pulled a real boner not making at least some of the Copyleft. Samsung could realistically just flip the finger to the open source community at this point and put out a 100% proprietary Android compatible phone running 90% Android code, and if they sell it cheap enough, people will buy it. But you're really talking bottom feeding at that point, not sufficient to provide the revenue scale that Samsung has gotten used to. But somebody is going to do just that (Amazon already did, but that wasn't in India...)
Like hell it is. Samsung can't get its head out of its butt to do a buildable code drop of the OS let alone the SDK. Don't even think about outside contributions. Bugs? A Samsung engineer will get to it, sure thing. Hardware? Real Soon Now. Look, it's not like just any handset can run this, ok? It has to be a special, moisture proof wankable handset. OK, let's see the source tree for the India phone. Let's download and build it, load it into the ROM. Don't forget to take your bows on Twitter when you're done.
This whole project is a just a circle jerk between Samsung, Intel and Linux foundation manager droids without the slightest community cred or engineering clue. Maemo without the maemo. All wank and no code. More open than Android it aint. Sad.
I got burned twice believing Intel's crap that an Atom would be anything other than an electric hot plate chewing through my software at snail speed. Never again.
Intel is two generations ahead on semiconductor process technology.
One generation. Atom is at 22nm and AMD is at 28nm. When Atom goes to 14nm TSMC/AMD will be at 20nm. Intel could move it along a little faster if they really wanted but they won't because, firstly the shiny new tech always goes to the high end chips, and secondly, they fear cannibalizing their own markets.
Another point: the generation advantage isn't what it used to be, remember when the speed would double and the cost would halve like clockwork? Those days are gone forever.
Really? For 4W TDP? Versus the top tier Intel i7 @ 47W? It depends on what you are measuring.
I believe he is measuring dick length. For the rest of us, this is a more than capable processor and the GPU is the best in the business at that form factor. See, at this scale the name of the game is getting the most out of small number of transistors because there is only so much power you can dissipate from that little box into the surrounding slow moving air. Or to put it simple terms, sure, you can stuff an I7 into that box but it will burn a hole through your hand and set your stero cabinet on fire if it survives long enough.
A more realistic conversion from bits-per-second to bytes-per-second is to divide by 10.
Not just realistic, but exactly correct, because 100 MHz ethernet uses a simple 8B/10B encoding, otherwise known as start and stop bits. FWIW, 10GigE uses 64B/66B encoding to claw back most of that 20% non-coding wastage.
Slashdot Mirror
Can't do much about that speed of light thing. Web browsing becomes an email-like experience. Wow, finally everybody gets to experience the internet just like RMS!
TCP become a hugely inappropriate protocol. Something like Rsync over UDP would be way better. Slow start... give me a break. Ditto, most of TCP.
Twitter stops being relevant at all, who cares about tweeting old news, or hearing it. Refining a web search... just don't bother, instead SCP Earth's entire web archive once a year and incrementally update it as bandwidth allows. Not much internet left after all the latency hacks, it hardly seems worth even trying to think of it that way. Basically, you will have Marsnet and Earthnet and data oozing in excruciating non-real time back and forth between them.
Actually, you're the one who needs to tune their value. LKML gets more like 1000 messages a day, and Linus can easily average 20 a day, or more, just to LKML. That doesn't count al the other forums he posts to. Linus is an email machine.
Also mesa matrix for checking opengl levels
http://mesamatrix.net/
Yes, it's encouraging how much mesa work is already done even for OGL 4.5. Remember when mesa was stuck for years at 2.1 plus extensons? A very nice 2.1, but preventing serious use for a lot of modern rendering techniques.
At one time, mesa was pretty much a one man project, now there is obviously some serious funding behind it.
So you can play a 7 year old game on a 4 year old card? That's not saying much.
It means that card could always play a 3 year old game. I'm running more recent games than that on random low end Radeons. Lots of Steam stuff, no complaints. I refuse to plug in the kind of card that runs the latest Far Cry full res on a 30 inch monitor with all features on just because I find the power suck, heat and fan noise really irritating. For the 99% of gamers who aren't hardcore shooter addicts, a $100 AMD card does the job perfectly well, and quietly.
We're nearing the point where you can buy a graphics card, plug it in, and it "just works." The main issue is that it could take months for the bleeding edge to make it into the latest kernel, so brand new GPUs could be problematic.
+1. All my latest Radeon installs have been: buy it, plug it in, it works. That is because I always check this matrix before deciding which card to buy. Note that it is now green all the way to the right on nearly every hardware feature you care about. A notable exception is OpenCL, which is WIP. If I wanted to develop with it right now, that would move me back to fglrx, and only that. Notice how the latest chipsets are the ones with OpenCL closest to prime time.
OpenGL: Actually is Open and if you keep up with the newer releases you'll note that a lot of the miraculous features promised in Mantle seem strangely similar to features that were already available in OpenGL.....
The big deal in the recent OGL 4.5 release is direct state access, for huge efficiency and robustness gains, while also being easier to code. Long time coming, that, but better they should take their time and get it right.
I don't know that AMD was strongly influenced by OpenGL advances, it seems more the other way round. AMD seems to be backing the move to make OpenGL work more like Mantle.
Also, the AMD buyout gave ATI access to better process technology. Without that, ATI might have gotten stompted by NVidia and we would have a graphics monoculture on desktops right now. Yuck. For the same reason I am glad that AMD never stomped NVidia, though it came close.
The last bout I had with NVidia was really annoying. Switch to text console and, whee, nice black screen. Yum. Got to love that Quadro experience. That was just one of many severe glitches. Haven't run that binary NVidia crap for many years now, very happy with the open source Radeon drivers and nice hardware. I really need to wonder if/why you're trolling. Got anything to add based on your last ten years experience? Didn't think so.
Maybe one day Nouveau will catch up to where the Xorg Radeon drivers got to years ago. Wake me up when that happens, maybe then I will take another flyer on NVidia.
Just say no to crap binary video driver blobs, I don't care what hardware or bespoke OS you are talking about, proprietary crap is proprietary crap.
Sounds like your granddaddy's ATI hardware...
$ uptime
15:55:56 up 171 days, 2:22, 25 users, load average: 0.76, 0.98, 1.26
$ lspci | grep AMD
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Park [Mobility Radeon HD 5430]
01:00.1 Audio device: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Cedar HDMI Audio [Radeon HD 5400/6300 Series]
Zero glitches, hangs or weirdness in the last several years with this or my other Radeon cards. Using the Xorg drivers. Includes heavy OpenGL hacking and way too much Civ V.
Right, not only do the top of the line firebreathing cpu and memory cost a disproportionate amount of money, they tend to eat significantly more power, run hotter and create more fan noise. And the high end SSDs have a smaller user base, therefore higher likelihood of unknown/unfixed bugs. So moderation is really the key to being a happy high end box consumer. Even though one tends to feel some sense of loss when settling on only the second or third fastest part, it only takes a short time for that to turn into a sense of smug satisfaction as the next generation lands, where even the budget parts blow away the specs of the old high power, high cost, geek trophies. Unhealthy envy of the bad old high end parts turns immediately into healthy and actionable envy of the shiny new budget parts.
OpenBSD has the best internal documentation, but has relatively weak SMP and narrower hardware support than FreeBSD...
And FreeBSD in turn has weaker SMP and narrower hardware support than Linux. However, "learn by doing" :)
Well, I guess $1300 only qualifies you as "performance" not "high end". OTOH, it's getting hard to find a $5k PC to buy... remember when high end always meant $5K? Not that long ago.Today, load up a box with as much memory as the motherboard can take, more SSD than you really need and a stupidly powerful GPU and it only costs $3K. And even then, you will be feeling small and slow in a couple of years, compared to the latest disk prices etc.
A toll payer is a tax payer (nearly always). I hope that clarifies my post above for you.
Erm, if Red Hat ever behaved differently from exactly they way they behave today, I am not aware of it. Red Hat has always been about undermining community projects and putting their own people in place, or buying up key developers if that doesn't work.
No, that's not a given.
Excuse me, but who pays for then, tax evaders? The bank never gets its money back? I'm confused.
I'd also be happy to buy a tiny computer based on an ARM chip, but I'd rather have full Linux than just ChromeOS so I probably won't buy a "ChromeBox".)
Full Linux runs on ChromeThings with various degrees of hardware support. I would like that too, though keep in mind that once you start putting full scale application demands on an ARM it starts hitting a rather similar power envelope to AMD's APUs. The win for ARM is part costs... those things are produced on way huger scale than anything by AMD, and sell for way less than Intel can possibly afford (given that shareholders have become dependent on a certain level of monopoly-blessed income). And you get: gyros, GPS, accelerometer, MicroSD, etc. Because you know it is really a handset chipset.
Actually, it's only a matter of time until PC chipsets get completely killed by handset chipsets coming complete with way more gizmos, costing next to nothing. But we're not there yet. In practice, if you want to run a desktop and not kill your eyes, wrists and neck, you are stuck with PC hardware.
All the Android Apps which work on the A316 work on the Z1 too...
Hmm, Open Mobile's proprietary ACL looks like the smartest move Samsung made in the whole slow motion Tizen trainwreck. Obviously, completely incompatible with an open source drop unless Samsung outright buys the company and releases it Google style, which is about the only possible why they could claw back their tarnished cred at this point. No doubt, ACL is just 99% BSD licensed Android libs, which demonsrates why Google pulled a real boner not making at least some of the Copyleft. Samsung could realistically just flip the finger to the open source community at this point and put out a 100% proprietary Android compatible phone running 90% Android code, and if they sell it cheap enough, people will buy it. But you're really talking bottom feeding at that point, not sufficient to provide the revenue scale that Samsung has gotten used to. But somebody is going to do just that (Amazon already did, but that wasn't in India...)
Like hell it is. Samsung can't get its head out of its butt to do a buildable code drop of the OS let alone the SDK. Don't even think about outside contributions. Bugs? A Samsung engineer will get to it, sure thing. Hardware? Real Soon Now. Look, it's not like just any handset can run this, ok? It has to be a special, moisture proof wankable handset. OK, let's see the source tree for the India phone. Let's download and build it, load it into the ROM. Don't forget to take your bows on Twitter when you're done.
This whole project is a just a circle jerk between Samsung, Intel and Linux foundation manager droids without the slightest community cred or engineering clue. Maemo without the maemo. All wank and no code. More open than Android it aint. Sad.
Decent LG Android handset you can get right now, unlocked, for 40 bucks.
Good one :)
I got burned twice believing Intel's crap that an Atom would be anything other than an electric hot plate chewing through my software at snail speed. Never again.
Intel is two generations ahead on semiconductor process technology.
One generation. Atom is at 22nm and AMD is at 28nm. When Atom goes to 14nm TSMC/AMD will be at 20nm. Intel could move it along a little faster if they really wanted but they won't because, firstly the shiny new tech always goes to the high end chips, and secondly, they fear cannibalizing their own markets.
Another point: the generation advantage isn't what it used to be, remember when the speed would double and the cost would halve like clockwork? Those days are gone forever.
Really? For 4W TDP? Versus the top tier Intel i7 @ 47W? It depends on what you are measuring.
I believe he is measuring dick length. For the rest of us, this is a more than capable processor and the GPU is the best in the business at that form factor. See, at this scale the name of the game is getting the most out of small number of transistors because there is only so much power you can dissipate from that little box into the surrounding slow moving air. Or to put it simple terms, sure, you can stuff an I7 into that box but it will burn a hole through your hand and set your stero cabinet on fire if it survives long enough.
A more realistic conversion from bits-per-second to bytes-per-second is to divide by 10.
Not just realistic, but exactly correct, because 100 MHz ethernet uses a simple 8B/10B encoding, otherwise known as start and stop bits. FWIW, 10GigE uses 64B/66B encoding to claw back most of that 20% non-coding wastage.
Yes, that is they come with. I upgraded an older one with PATA hard drive to PATA SSD (getting a bit hard to find those now...)