My rights* are protected regardless of how unpopular a minority I belong to or how "unnecessary" those rights seem to some.
Your points are well-stated, and I agree with them. Furthermore, I think you'll find agreement from everyone in this discussion about value of constitutions in limiting the power of majorities to oppress minorities.
One thing that might interest you is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, passed by the UN General Assembly in 1948. The US, like the vast majority of world nations, deems various parts of it "unnecessary," and the "unpopular minority" (part of it, at least) that suffers has been commonly referred to by sociologists as the "underclass." I recognize the controversial nature of these ideas, but at the very least they should serve as a reminder that there are many perspectives on what "rights" should be protected. In my personal opinion, when malnourished, grossly undereducated children become adults and are said to have "equality of opportunity" their with well-fed, well-educated counterparts, there may be a few lines missing from the Bill of Rights.
you might be able to enter it under a different name and win the right to enter it in court.
Are you kidding? With this type of weapon in my possession, your insignificant little "legal system" has no power over me. Rule of law will be annihilated, as will all of you fools! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I'll second that, especially regarding not going for hype. A Redhat-using friend of mine claims that BSD (as a whole) is losing server market share. He didn't cite any evidence, and I would be skeptical of such a general claim anyway, but either way, my response is "So what?" It's not as if the volunteer projects are going to die anytime soon (e.g. FreeBSD's developer base keeps growing). As for BSDi, earned reputation for excellence, not hype (or lack thereof), will give them a niche big enough to survive.
I am an inexperienced unix user with FreeBSD on my desktop. As long as the hardware is supported (most, including mine, easily is), asking why I chose FreeBSD is no more relevant than asking why someone chose Debian or Slackware or any other Linux distribution. As a "desktop OS", there is virtually no distinction between any of them--I'll let the paid veteran sysadmins argue the comparative merits for applications beyond that (e.g. keeping 50 boxes up to date).
Also, for those who don't know, FreeBSD's "text-based" install does not mean a command line; it means an ncurses interface. In other words, it may offend your artistic sensibilities, but it will be just as easy to use as a gui. Afraid of needing to know your hardware? Don't be; even Windows can tell you what you have, complete with IRCs (Start-->Accessories-->System Tools-->System Information).
To my friend and every other Linux "zealot": you run a powerful, versatile OS that's here to stay, be it a desktop or server; so do we BSDers--don't believe the hype that tells you otherwise.
Offtopic as it may be (I have no insight on Computer Science/Engineering anyway), I've always taken the opposite view: thanks to public libraries and the God-given ability to understand what's in them, I don't need to pay tuition to learn about ideas. I doubt this is the answer for everyone, though.
To paraphrase one of my more honest college profs., "The real reason you are all here is for certification." Of course, that was Chemical Engineering . ..
True, true. Any method will reflect a choice based on available resources, and CVSup is not the right method for every set of circumstances, such as the sets to which you allude. My opinion of CVSup is that it is a top-notch implementation of a solution to the particular types of problems it was designed to solve.
I hope anyone whose impressions may be formed from my post takes my seeming denial of the truism that nothing is perfect and the smiley face at the end as an obvious hyperbole implying a strong, but not quite as universal, compliment to Mr. Polstra. Used in the right circumstances, CVSup is, in my experience, extremely fast and mistake free.
The conventional wisdom is that BSD ports and Debian apt are the two most powerful and versatile upgrading systems around. Apt downloads packages from central Debian servers and takes care of every detail, including dependencies, in installing them on your system. A port downloads the source from wherever it is (the makefile usually specifies up to 50+ servers to try, depending on the port), builds it if necessary, and installs it, taking care of every detail, including dependencies (run and build) and complile-time options.
To editorialize, either one is a good way to run a clean, stress-free system. Note that although it would be just as easy to download a precompiled package from a central server and install it on BSD (pkg commands with/without make install), the "cultural" emphasis in the BSD world (correct me if I'm wrong) is to compile from source. Obviously this is a more resource-intensive model (and one ends up with a number of versions of make), but BSDers like it (after all, it puts the "source" in open source). And there are those compile-time options.
Although, there is room for improvement in both apt and ports, both seem to have the right idea as to what constitutes a good way to upgrade a system. Thus both should continue to be excellent options.
Note: for downloading/tracking a large source tree, CVSup actually is perfect, with no room for improvement:-)
True? Well, I agree with him, but it's not exactly provable (especially in this forum).
BTW, for those who have whetted their mathematical appetites on the Discover article linked to by his sig., you might want to check out this.
--Scott
Re:What about the anti-genetic backlash?
on
Genetic Stone Soup
·
· Score: 1
We can't allow research to [be] thwarted because of the voices of a small bunch of extremists. That's not democracy at all.
Good point. I guess these "extremists" must have missed that extensive, open public debate we all had to decide how to manage the immense potential societal impact (positive and negative) of the coming biotechnology. And they must not have been paying attention that day we all got the chance to "democratically" decide how we would all be affected by the policies of transnational corporations, which ultimately don't have to be responsible to anyone, as long as governments can be bought (3rd world and/or U.S.). Violence is certainly unacceptable, but is peaceful protest?
I, for one, am excited by the wonderful potential biotechnology has to do good. But what is most important to the progress of society is not what decisions are made, but who is allowed to participate in making them. And posting on Slashdot is no substitute for a ballot.
--Scott
That's a good idea--I wish I had the experience to help. Not that FreeBSD doesn't make a good desktop already.
The existing installation option to install X with GNOME or KDE or any of a number of window managers is a very good start to what you're talking about. Beyond that, all ports require is that you know what program you want. "Su" to root, "cd" to the clearly-named port directory in the clearly-organized/usr/ports directory, and "make install" to automatically install the program and its dependencies ("make install clean" does all that and deletes the source code when it's done with it). As someone who knows little about UNIX of any kind, that sounds "super easy" to me.
By the way, FreeBSD has been my first experience with UNIX (1 month now). The fact is that it is possible for desktop newbies, and my opinion from personal experience is that it can be painless. In terms of sheer amount, there is more linux documentation (more books especially), but like linux, FreeBSD online documentation is quite complete and well-organized. (try "freebsd documentation" on google if you don't believe me).
It's mildly troubling to me that every intellectual wunderkind I've ever heard about has been directed (naturally or otherwise) toward some kind of mathematical or scientific pursuit. Both for variety's sake and for humanity's, wouldn't it be nice to see a brilliant young social scientist or philosopher? Paging J. S. Mill . . .
Slashdot Mirror
How irrational of them :)
My rights* are protected regardless of how unpopular a minority I belong to or how "unnecessary" those rights seem to some.
Your points are well-stated, and I agree with them. Furthermore, I think you'll find agreement from everyone in this discussion about value of constitutions in limiting the power of majorities to oppress minorities.
One thing that might interest you is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, passed by the UN General Assembly in 1948. The US, like the vast majority of world nations, deems various parts of it "unnecessary," and the "unpopular minority" (part of it, at least) that suffers has been commonly referred to by sociologists as the "underclass." I recognize the controversial nature of these ideas, but at the very least they should serve as a reminder that there are many perspectives on what "rights" should be protected. In my personal opinion, when malnourished, grossly undereducated children become adults and are said to have "equality of opportunity" their with well-fed, well-educated counterparts, there may be a few lines missing from the Bill of Rights.
you might be able to enter it under a different name and win the right to enter it in court.
Are you kidding? With this type of weapon in my possession, your insignificant little "legal system" has no power over me. Rule of law will be annihilated, as will all of you fools! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
As AOL-TW and /. know well, one's happiness is a function of one's expectations. :-|
--ScottI'll second that, especially regarding not going for hype. A Redhat-using friend of mine claims that BSD (as a whole) is losing server market share. He didn't cite any evidence, and I would be skeptical of such a general claim anyway, but either way, my response is "So what?" It's not as if the volunteer projects are going to die anytime soon (e.g. FreeBSD's developer base keeps growing). As for BSDi, earned reputation for excellence, not hype (or lack thereof), will give them a niche big enough to survive.
I am an inexperienced unix user with FreeBSD on my desktop. As long as the hardware is supported (most, including mine, easily is), asking why I chose FreeBSD is no more relevant than asking why someone chose Debian or Slackware or any other Linux distribution. As a "desktop OS", there is virtually no distinction between any of them--I'll let the paid veteran sysadmins argue the comparative merits for applications beyond that (e.g. keeping 50 boxes up to date).
Also, for those who don't know, FreeBSD's "text-based" install does not mean a command line; it means an ncurses interface. In other words, it may offend your artistic sensibilities, but it will be just as easy to use as a gui. Afraid of needing to know your hardware? Don't be; even Windows can tell you what you have, complete with IRCs (Start-->Accessories-->System Tools-->System Information).
To my friend and every other Linux "zealot": you run a powerful, versatile OS that's here to stay, be it a desktop or server; so do we BSDers--don't believe the hype that tells you otherwise.
--Scott
"+to": 871,000,000
;-)
"+of": 901,000,000
Be sure to mod this up, since it required so much time and original thought
--Scott
Offtopic as it may be (I have no insight on Computer Science/Engineering anyway), I've always taken the opposite view: thanks to public libraries and the God-given ability to understand what's in them, I don't need to pay tuition to learn about ideas. I doubt this is the answer for everyone, though.
To paraphrase one of my more honest college profs., "The real reason you are all here is for certification." Of course, that was Chemical Engineering . . .
ScottTrue, true. Any method will reflect a choice based on available resources, and CVSup is not the right method for every set of circumstances, such as the sets to which you allude. My opinion of CVSup is that it is a top-notch implementation of a solution to the particular types of problems it was designed to solve.
I hope anyone whose impressions may be formed from my post takes my seeming denial of the truism that nothing is perfect and the smiley face at the end as an obvious hyperbole implying a strong, but not quite as universal, compliment to Mr. Polstra. Used in the right circumstances, CVSup is, in my experience, extremely fast and mistake free.
-Scott
AFAIK,
The conventional wisdom is that BSD ports and Debian apt are the two most powerful and versatile upgrading systems around. Apt downloads packages from central Debian servers and takes care of every detail, including dependencies, in installing them on your system. A port downloads the source from wherever it is (the makefile usually specifies up to 50+ servers to try, depending on the port), builds it if necessary, and installs it, taking care of every detail, including dependencies (run and build) and complile-time options.
To editorialize, either one is a good way to run a clean, stress-free system. Note that although it would be just as easy to download a precompiled package from a central server and install it on BSD (pkg commands with/without make install), the "cultural" emphasis in the BSD world (correct me if I'm wrong) is to compile from source. Obviously this is a more resource-intensive model (and one ends up with a number of versions of make), but BSDers like it (after all, it puts the "source" in open source). And there are those compile-time options.
Although, there is room for improvement in both apt and ports, both seem to have the right idea as to what constitutes a good way to upgrade a system. Thus both should continue to be excellent options.
Note: for downloading/tracking a large source tree, CVSup actually is perfect, with no room for improvement :-)
Screaming? Sounds like it.
Flamebait? Definitely.
True? Well, I agree with him, but it's not exactly provable (especially in this forum).
BTW, for those who have whetted their mathematical appetites on the Discover article linked to by his sig., you might want to check out this.
--Scott
We can't allow research to [be] thwarted because of the voices of a small bunch of extremists. That's not democracy at all.
Good point. I guess these "extremists" must have missed that extensive, open public debate we all had to decide how to manage the immense potential societal impact (positive and negative) of the coming biotechnology. And they must not have been paying attention that day we all got the chance to "democratically" decide how we would all be affected by the policies of transnational corporations, which ultimately don't have to be responsible to anyone, as long as governments can be bought (3rd world and/or U.S.). Violence is certainly unacceptable, but is peaceful protest?
I, for one, am excited by the wonderful potential biotechnology has to do good. But what is most important to the progress of society is not what decisions are made, but who is allowed to participate in making them. And posting on Slashdot is no substitute for a ballot. --Scott
That's a good idea--I wish I had the experience to help. Not that FreeBSD doesn't make a good desktop already.
The existing installation option to install X with GNOME or KDE or any of a number of window managers is a very good start to what you're talking about. Beyond that, all ports require is that you know what program you want. "Su" to root, "cd" to the clearly-named port directory in the clearly-organized /usr/ports directory, and "make install" to automatically install the program and its dependencies ("make install clean" does all that and deletes the source code when it's done with it). As someone who knows little about UNIX of any kind, that sounds "super easy" to me.
By the way, FreeBSD has been my first experience with UNIX (1 month now). The fact is that it is possible for desktop newbies, and my opinion from personal experience is that it can be painless. In terms of sheer amount, there is more linux documentation (more books especially), but like linux, FreeBSD online documentation is quite complete and well-organized. (try "freebsd documentation" on google if you don't believe me).
It's mildly troubling to me that every intellectual wunderkind I've ever heard about has been directed (naturally or otherwise) toward some kind of mathematical or scientific pursuit. Both for variety's sake and for humanity's, wouldn't it be nice to see a brilliant young social scientist or philosopher? Paging J. S. Mill . . .