Software isn't your bathroom. It can adapt to understand the context of your situation. Imagine if the toilet paper showed up when you sat on the stool, or the toothpaste suddenly appeared when you picked up your toothbrush. The real word doesn't work that way, but software can.
The fact that the most requested features in Microsoft products are already in the product goes a long way towards proving that seldom used features should be visible when you want them.
There's two sides to that "disabled" story. If you gray out functions that can't be used, then people have no idea how to enable them. It's right there, why can i' use the damn thing!
Good UI design dictates that you hide things that are not enabled.
Several ways. The most important of which is context sensitivity. It simply doesn't show items that are not available in the current context.
For example, it doesn't show the photo manipulation tools unless you actually have a photo selected. Those would have to be in the toolbar, but disabled in the 2003 menu system.
Many cars today now ship with in-dash control systems that typically change things around depending on the mode their in. This is called making the best use of a small amount of space.
In-dash GPS's, and other information systems are often terribly designed in fact.
Since when did they remove the "go up one" button? It's there for me in Vista and 7. It's called a breadcrumb, and you just click on the parent directory name to go up that one level, or hey you can go up 3 or 4 in one click as well if you want.
I really don't understand why people find breadcrumbs more difficult than click an "up" button 3 or 4 times.
* Ctrl-F1 * Double Click on the tabs * Right click and choose "Minimize the ribbon" * Click the chevron in the upper right corner next to the help icon
There are probably even more ways, but these spring to mind. With all the ways to do this, how can you not have stumbled across any of them?
It's ironic that people that pride themselves in their ability to understand complex, inconsistent, confusing and even downright sadistic (in some cases) technology seem completely unable to use those same skills when it comes to a Microsoft product that is much easier to use.
Maybe that's it. The more efficient and easy to use it is, the more it must suck.
There were many reasons for the ribbon, but the biggest one was that the number of features in office apps has been growing steadily, and just adding them to more menus was not scalable.. it just made them more cluttered and hard to find things.
The fact is, there is what the user says, and what the user does. Hard data made up of telementry from Microsoft products shows that what users say they do and what they actually do are not the same thing. They "say" they lose 20% productivity or some such, but reality shows they typically gain productivity and more knowledge of how to use features they didn't know before.
Seriously? There are 8 tabs in the Word ribbon. 8! Compared to 9 toplevel menus in Office 2003, and dozens of submenus and submenus of submenus, some of which opened dialogs with tabs. You could literally get down 10 or more levels.
The ribbon has 8 top level tabs, and a few advanced dialogs (with tabs, but all of those dialogs were there in 2003 as well), and a few options with dropdowns for variations.
I can't fathom how you can consider the ribbon to "bury" anything but find menus to be "revealing". It takes all of 3 seconds for me to scan through each tab if i'm doing so sequentially, and up to a couple minutes to scan through the menus of 2003. AND, office 2007 and 2010 have about 30% more functions than Office 2003.
And there is a search add-on that Microsoft made, as well as a nifty silverlight app that lets you choose things in an Office 2003 interface and it shows you how to get to it in 2007/10
The ribbon was created not just to help people figure things out easier. It was created to address the fact that there were literally HUNDREDS of functions, and just throwing them on more and more menus was not scaling.
The ribbon was designed to deal with scale, as well as ease of use.
Honestly, I don't believe you. If that's true, then you're either the dumbest person on the planet, or have some weird brain damage that causes you to be unable to adapt to new things. Seriously.
What I *THINK*, is that like most techies, you used it for 5 minutes, said "I hate this shit, i'm going to Open Office". Or, you simply don't use office enough to make any cognitive change.
Normal humans that use something intensely every day figure out shortcut keys, and remember where things are. Even rats remember how to get to the cheese via a complex maze. Surely you're more evolved than a rat.
It's only the seldom used things that give you trouble.. but the problem is, you learned those things on menus, and now you mentally organize them in whatever fucked up menu format microsoft arbitrarily chose.
This new format is less arbitrary, and attempts to group things in the way they are used, while still retaining nearly all the same shortcut keys from previous versions. And it offers several powerful customization means. Hell, you can completely reorganize the ribbon to your tastes if you so desire.
But most people would rather complain.. it's not cool to "like" the ribbon.
Wow, virtually everything you've said is flat out wrong for anyone other than a power user. Seriously.
Most users don't even understand what that little arrow next to a toolbar button means, they don't realize it means there are more options. Combining cut/paste/delete into a single button would confuse most people, and make them not even know you could do those things.
Hell, most people who use Word don't even know you can hide the ribbon by clicking the visible arrow to do so (nearly everyone that complains about the ribbon puts "taking up too much space" as their primary complaint).
By removing the group labels, you add confusion as to why things are grouped the way they are, which makes it harder to cognitively remember them. Knowing that some functions are grouped allows you to find similar groups.. but only when you cognitively make the jump as to HOW they are grouped.
A number of your complaints are specific to this layout (which is still under development and they say it will likely change). I agree that Zip isn't exactly "sharing", but the average person tends to only use it when they're going to send stuff to other people, or get stuff from other people.
Power users use file compression for more purposes, but most people simply would see no other purpose. Besides, some things just don't fit anywhere else..
Rarely used features are more important to make visible, not less visible.. because people don't know they're there otherwise. You'd be surprised how few people know you can sort by clicking on the header, or even that clicking on it twice sorts it the other way. Most people just don't get this stuff.
The File "blob" as you call it was a compromise. Originally, in office 2007, they made the file menu an "orb" above the tabs and out of the way, but too many people didn't even know it was there. This was put in there at the request of the users.
Remember, the ribbon is not for power users. It's for regular people, just as the Vista and 7 UI's were. Power users use keyboard shorcuts and context menus.
Ctrl-F1 also works. As well as the chevron in the tab bar on office 2010.
Really, this feature is present in virtually any demo, and most of the descriptions of the ribbon. It's kind of hard to miss it, unless you'd rather just complain.
That's odd, since clearly Insert Page Break and Insert Picture or Clip Art are on the same tab in both office 2007 and 2010.
Cross-references are... wait for it.. references. So if you're doing references, chances are you're already on the references tab.
As for your arguments about text label consistency... *EVERY* icon in the UI has a text label, with the exception of the Font and Paragraph icons, and those are so well known (due to being commonly used buttons in toolbars) that they felt it was unnecessary, and a waste of space to provide text for buttons everyone already knows.
But hey, don't let me take the wind out of your "inconsistency" argument.
It's a button bar that resizes itself to whatever size the window is. It's a button bar that adapts contextually to what you're doing. It's a button bar that makes the most used items larger, and thus easier to hit. It's a button bar that gets out of your way with a single keystroke if you don't want it there....
Really, the number of ways that the ribbon is not "just a buttonbar" is tiring to have to educate you about.
The "Ribbon" comprises more than just the buttons, it's the behavior and the design as well.
But then I don't get the one row of icons I actually use. The ones that tell me what the font is, whether it's bold or not, etc.
Are you an idiot? There's a popup menu that does that whenever you highlight anything. It even gets out of you way if you are just doing something like cut and paste.
Slashdot Mirror
Convicted... You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means. /inigo
You will not find the word "convicted" anywhere in any legal document relating to the trial. That's because one cannot be convicted in a civil trial.
Software isn't your bathroom. It can adapt to understand the context of your situation. Imagine if the toilet paper showed up when you sat on the stool, or the toothpaste suddenly appeared when you picked up your toothbrush. The real word doesn't work that way, but software can.
The fact that the most requested features in Microsoft products are already in the product goes a long way towards proving that seldom used features should be visible when you want them.
Alt-F, S works fine here in all office applications that have file saving.
Why is it that everyone who complains about how crappy office is seems to use things that just aren't true for their arguments?
There's two sides to that "disabled" story. If you gray out functions that can't be used, then people have no idea how to enable them. It's right there, why can i' use the damn thing!
Good UI design dictates that you hide things that are not enabled.
Why do you have to mouse over anything? All icons have text labels except for the Font and Paragraph icons
Several ways. The most important of which is context sensitivity. It simply doesn't show items that are not available in the current context.
For example, it doesn't show the photo manipulation tools unless you actually have a photo selected. Those would have to be in the toolbar, but disabled in the 2003 menu system.
Many cars today now ship with in-dash control systems that typically change things around depending on the mode their in. This is called making the best use of a small amount of space.
In-dash GPS's, and other information systems are often terribly designed in fact.
Since when did they remove the "go up one" button? It's there for me in Vista and 7. It's called a breadcrumb, and you just click on the parent directory name to go up that one level, or hey you can go up 3 or 4 in one click as well if you want.
I really don't understand why people find breadcrumbs more difficult than click an "up" button 3 or 4 times.
Any of several ways.
* Ctrl-F1
* Double Click on the tabs
* Right click and choose "Minimize the ribbon"
* Click the chevron in the upper right corner next to the help icon
There are probably even more ways, but these spring to mind. With all the ways to do this, how can you not have stumbled across any of them?
It's ironic that people that pride themselves in their ability to understand complex, inconsistent, confusing and even downright sadistic (in some cases) technology seem completely unable to use those same skills when it comes to a Microsoft product that is much easier to use.
Maybe that's it. The more efficient and easy to use it is, the more it must suck.
"Intuitive" is defenseless against "stubborn". No matter how intuitive it is, it won't matter if you refuse to believe it might not suck.
There were many reasons for the ribbon, but the biggest one was that the number of features in office apps has been growing steadily, and just adding them to more menus was not scalable.. it just made them more cluttered and hard to find things.
The fact is, there is what the user says, and what the user does. Hard data made up of telementry from Microsoft products shows that what users say they do and what they actually do are not the same thing. They "say" they lose 20% productivity or some such, but reality shows they typically gain productivity and more knowledge of how to use features they didn't know before.
Hitting alt, then pressing the arrows works fine for me. You can also hit alt, then do ctrl-tab.
"Completely buried".
Seriously? There are 8 tabs in the Word ribbon. 8! Compared to 9 toplevel menus in Office 2003, and dozens of submenus and submenus of submenus, some of which opened dialogs with tabs. You could literally get down 10 or more levels.
The ribbon has 8 top level tabs, and a few advanced dialogs (with tabs, but all of those dialogs were there in 2003 as well), and a few options with dropdowns for variations.
I can't fathom how you can consider the ribbon to "bury" anything but find menus to be "revealing". It takes all of 3 seconds for me to scan through each tab if i'm doing so sequentially, and up to a couple minutes to scan through the menus of 2003. AND, office 2007 and 2010 have about 30% more functions than Office 2003.
You might be interested in "God Mode" On Windows 7.
http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-10423985-285/understanding-windows-7s-godmode/
And there is a search add-on that Microsoft made, as well as a nifty silverlight app that lets you choose things in an Office 2003 interface and it shows you how to get to it in 2007/10
You might try this link, it's really slick (requires silverlight or moonlight though):
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/support/learn-where-menu-and-toolbar-commands-are-in-office-2010-and-related-products-HA101794130.aspx
The ribbon was created not just to help people figure things out easier. It was created to address the fact that there were literally HUNDREDS of functions, and just throwing them on more and more menus was not scaling.
The ribbon was designed to deal with scale, as well as ease of use.
Honestly, I don't believe you. If that's true, then you're either the dumbest person on the planet, or have some weird brain damage that causes you to be unable to adapt to new things. Seriously.
What I *THINK*, is that like most techies, you used it for 5 minutes, said "I hate this shit, i'm going to Open Office". Or, you simply don't use office enough to make any cognitive change.
Normal humans that use something intensely every day figure out shortcut keys, and remember where things are. Even rats remember how to get to the cheese via a complex maze. Surely you're more evolved than a rat.
It's only the seldom used things that give you trouble.. but the problem is, you learned those things on menus, and now you mentally organize them in whatever fucked up menu format microsoft arbitrarily chose.
This new format is less arbitrary, and attempts to group things in the way they are used, while still retaining nearly all the same shortcut keys from previous versions. And it offers several powerful customization means. Hell, you can completely reorganize the ribbon to your tastes if you so desire.
But most people would rather complain.. it's not cool to "like" the ribbon.
Dude. Right click taskbar, choose properties, change the option of Taskbar buttons to: "Combine when taskbar is full" or "Never combine".
But if you'd rather just complain...
Wow, virtually everything you've said is flat out wrong for anyone other than a power user. Seriously.
Most users don't even understand what that little arrow next to a toolbar button means, they don't realize it means there are more options. Combining cut/paste/delete into a single button would confuse most people, and make them not even know you could do those things.
Hell, most people who use Word don't even know you can hide the ribbon by clicking the visible arrow to do so (nearly everyone that complains about the ribbon puts "taking up too much space" as their primary complaint).
By removing the group labels, you add confusion as to why things are grouped the way they are, which makes it harder to cognitively remember them. Knowing that some functions are grouped allows you to find similar groups.. but only when you cognitively make the jump as to HOW they are grouped.
A number of your complaints are specific to this layout (which is still under development and they say it will likely change). I agree that Zip isn't exactly "sharing", but the average person tends to only use it when they're going to send stuff to other people, or get stuff from other people.
Power users use file compression for more purposes, but most people simply would see no other purpose. Besides, some things just don't fit anywhere else..
Rarely used features are more important to make visible, not less visible.. because people don't know they're there otherwise. You'd be surprised how few people know you can sort by clicking on the header, or even that clicking on it twice sorts it the other way. Most people just don't get this stuff.
The File "blob" as you call it was a compromise. Originally, in office 2007, they made the file menu an "orb" above the tabs and out of the way, but too many people didn't even know it was there. This was put in there at the request of the users.
Remember, the ribbon is not for power users. It's for regular people, just as the Vista and 7 UI's were. Power users use keyboard shorcuts and context menus.
Ctrl-F1 also works. As well as the chevron in the tab bar on office 2010.
Really, this feature is present in virtually any demo, and most of the descriptions of the ribbon. It's kind of hard to miss it, unless you'd rather just complain.
Umm.. no. Hiding the ribbon makes it go away completely (other than the tab selectors). It does not change the size of the buttons in any way.
That's odd, since clearly Insert Page Break and Insert Picture or Clip Art are on the same tab in both office 2007 and 2010.
Cross-references are... wait for it.. references. So if you're doing references, chances are you're already on the references tab.
As for your arguments about text label consistency... *EVERY* icon in the UI has a text label, with the exception of the Font and Paragraph icons, and those are so well known (due to being commonly used buttons in toolbars) that they felt it was unnecessary, and a waste of space to provide text for buttons everyone already knows.
But hey, don't let me take the wind out of your "inconsistency" argument.
It's a button bar that resizes itself to whatever size the window is. It's a button bar that adapts contextually to what you're doing. It's a button bar that makes the most used items larger, and thus easier to hit. It's a button bar that gets out of your way with a single keystroke if you don't want it there....
Really, the number of ways that the ribbon is not "just a buttonbar" is tiring to have to educate you about.
The "Ribbon" comprises more than just the buttons, it's the behavior and the design as well.
Are you an idiot? There's a popup menu that does that whenever you highlight anything. It even gets out of you way if you are just doing something like cut and paste.
Besides, you should be using styles instead.