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Microsoft 'Ribbonizes' Windows 8 File Manager
CWmike writes "Microsoft said today it will 'ribbonize' the file manager in next year's Windows 8, adding Explorer to the short list of integrated applications that already sport the interface in Windows 7. Microsoft's Alex Simons, director of program management, released screenshots of the new ribbon interface planned for Explorer (scroll way down). 'We evaluated several different UI command affordances including expanded versions of the Vista/Windows 7 command bar, Windows 95/Windows XP style toolbars and menus, several entirely new UI approaches, and the Office style ribbon,' explained Simons. 'Of these, the ribbon approach offered benefits in line with our goals.' Plans by Microsoft and others to ribbonize applications have often met resistance. 'We knew that using a ribbon for Explorer would likely be met with skepticism by a set of power users, but there are clear benefits,' Simons said."
"Nooooooooooooo!"
can it play crysis?
We know our users don't like The Ribbon, so we are going to force it down their throats!
Great more crap I don't want. I hate the minimal UI look. At least give us a choice between old and new.
Looks like a two year old designed it. Talk about cluttered. Explorer has a ribbon, the right mouse button.
Another reason to learn keyboard shortcuts.
The ribbon is just awful. Generally it takes me 1-2 weeks to get back to 95+% productivity with a new machine. I am now over 18 months into Office 2007 at work, and still only at 75-80%. Important things were buried or burned to make the ribbon approach fit, so I am constantly having to dig for simple crap like "crop". Ugh, I was hoping it all would go the way of Clippy...
And alternative file manager downloads soar on Windows 8 launch day.
Windows professionals and consultants ready themselves for increased profits in tutoring a new array of people having difficulty simply working with their own files.
If I can disable the damned ribbon and use what I want, fine. I get the feeling that it won't happen.
No advantages and a few disadvantages to Win8, and I haven't even looked at it closely. I'll stay with 7 for the time being.
THE SOFTWARE, IT NO WORKY!!!
Better information about Microsoft's researches: http://seldo.tumblr.com/post/9549775746/this-is-genuinely-microsofts-idea-of-a lol
I hate ribbons, they create about three times more headaches than they solve.
I don't care if Grandma will be able to use autocad easier, every time a new ribbon shows up it makes my life a living cluttered hell.
Is Microsoft taking a page from the RIM management playbook? It seems to me like they're deliberately trying to make themselves irrelevant by not giving people what they clearly want. I guess hubris strikes every large company eventually. They're systematically flushing themselves down the toilet with every release of code. It will be interesting to see the post-Windows world in a few years.
In the age of widescreen displays, why in the world do they want to waste more of my precious vertical viewing plane with pictures?
My company's switch to Office 2007 nearly a year ago is still bringing groans from my coworkers (who by the way are engineers in their 20-30s for the most part). We love new things, and we love improvements; we abhor inefficiency and "stupid pretty things". If we wanted eye candy, we'd get a Mac.
I guess I should read more about their "clear benefits", because we are obviously missing them!
I personally can't stand the ribbons. So busy and hard to find anything.
Here's a great example: ZIP is under the "share" tab. Please explain that one to me.
I know a lot of people hate it, I did the first time I used it, but I now think the ribbon is actually a better interface. Once you know where things are it does make you work faster. Especially when you are using items that are in the same tab of the ribbon, or same menu of the old style. While there may not be as many benefits to the ribbon in explorer as there were in Office, I'm all for them putting it everywhere they can.
This will, of course, cause massive outcry, but I suspect it will end up being an improvement. Although since there are very few things you really need the menu for in a GUI file manager, I'm not sure I see the point. I honestly don't remember the last time I used the Explorer file manager menu, it was probably just to see hidden files. Everything else is done with the mouse and left/right clicks.
Actually looking at the screen shot, the main problem might end up being wasted screen space for the ribbon. 7 managed to stay out of the way pretty well, and I honestly think an absolute minimalist approach is best for file managers (unless you let me code scripts for file management...). Like I say, besides the file tree little to nothing else is needed in a file manager with two button mice and keyboard shortcuts.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
No matter how you look at it, Ribbons are inefficient, badly designed UI elements.
Microsoft continues to floor me with how valiantly they push that envelope toward a cliff.
...yet another Windows I will be skipping.
That looks TERRIBLE. Anything with Ribbon looks awful.
Give me back my god damn TOOLBARS. They have more functionality than crappy Ribbon ever will.
I'm not blind, I don't have fingers that are as fat as thighs (never mind the fact that I don't even HAVE a tablet, keep your tablet-crap to tablets), I don't need my damn hand held through every process just to cut a damn section of text.
Seriously, Microsoft hasn't made a good OS since WinXP.
At least in XP you had OPTIONS.
Everything after was forced on you, and either ON or OFF, no MIDDLE.
Not only that, they have been redesigning the OS for BABIES.
Their OS simply by design has become an insult to even think about.
How about you discard the retards and focus on your business users for once.
Thank god games have been getting worse as well, no need to upgrade OS for games that are exclusive to DirectX 55.5 or whatever one we are being forced to upgrade for.
I think I can say this and be confident that I have every right to say it: Fuck you Microsoft, just, fuck you.
Ribbons are ok if you want to have large menus with few sub elements which need to be large and look important.
For Office, they do what they're meant to do. For paint, they're horrible.
For this they're beyond description. When i use explorer I want to see all the elements that I can, and I right click to do what I want. Putting a huge bar at the top with colourful icons will only serve for more 'accidents' and less people knowing about the right menu. Please. No.
Now that was a well-reasoned response. Two thumbs up!
And the worms ate into his brain.
this screen shot won me : http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-43-metablogapi/4380.Figure-24-_2D00_-Alex_2700_s-customizations_5F00_2.png
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
Microsoft is using uploads of your screen sizes in the section "Designing for a Wider Screen" ("we dug up some more telemetry data for Windows 7"), which the EULA allows them.
Are there any reliable controls on what else they can upload?
Why the fuck are they removing even more fucking vertical space!?!?
Haven't i been screwed enough by the widescreens!?
Clearly im not the targeted audience of tomorrows computing :(
The Ribbon is an abomination.
However, interesting little suggestion in TFA is that there is a "quick access toolbar" which basically looks... like an Explorer toolbar. You can customize anything onto it you like. And you can minimize the Ribbon, folding down into something that looks... like a menu.
So, it /may/ be survivable.
OMG!!! Ponies!!!
The outraged power-users may just die from general anger!
IT BURNS!
Can I please have new retinas?
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Ok, look at the image where they annotate various buttons with the frequency of use (10th image down). I thought this was a joke. If MS has such detailed usage statistics, why wouldn't they order or size the buttons according to frequency of use. Why is 'New Folder' (1%) the same size as 'Paste' (19%) and twice the size of 'Cut' (7%).
The only logical conclusion I can come to, is that this reorganization was not a result of usage statistics. Instead, the developers made whatever (bad) decisions they needed to to make the thing work and then marketing said "How can we sell this?".
Microsoft - bastardizing statistics since 1975
Everyone will be skipping Windows 8. Seems like every other version of Windows is determined by boneheads with a barely functional magic 8 ball.
Clinton made me a Republican. Bush made me a Libertarian. Trump is making me question reality.
Word is famous for being able to do 1000 things to a document, but the interface makes it faster to only do 3-4 of those tasks, and make it frustratingly agonizing to find some little known feature, which pisses me off, ruins my experience, and blows all the efficiency I just gained on complaining and hunting for what I needed.
A Ribbon would be great if word only did about 50 things, but then that's the problem, word is bloated and crazy. They've put the right interface onto the wrong product.
Then again, a Ribbon on Explorer might not be bad, because it really only does 50 things.
"All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"
For those complaining about the ribbon taking up more screen space, it can be minimized.
This is somewhat flawed. It's not simply how often the operation is used, but how often is used multiplied by the amount of work that it will do for you. Also if the ribbon is rarely used, it's exactly the place to put rarely used commands that might put in handy.
But otherwise, yes, this demonstrates why the menu/toolbar approach is better. The most useful commands go through the shortcuts, the second most useful commands go through the context menu, things that might come in handy go into the toolbar, and everything else go to the menu. The ribbon approach breaks this.
Oh sure there are clear benefits. For people who have no idea what they're doing and don't realize you can ctrl-c/ctrl-v files.
And how can you possibly think that's a clear layout, even for those people? Maybe we should slap some more separators in there, the more separators you add the better it gets.
On the positive side, if you can collapse those tabs like you can in Office, at least you can hide the mess and do everything with keyboard controls.
Long live Mac OS X. I hope.
I have been using Total Commander since Windows 3.1 as a file manager. Every version of the Windows File Manager and Explorer seems very limited to what I can do with Total Commander.
This new one even looks like it is a step backwards yet again. I hate the ribbon interfaces in Office 2007 and used a third party addon to get the old menus back, so I doubt if I will like the Windows 8 ribbons any better.
It just seems so much slower than toolbars. Not to say toolbars don't have their own issues but ribbons can be downright annoying.
It's kind of hard to take him seriously when he claims the menu bar has been "made bigger and more prominent", right underneath a screenshot showing that Windows 8 Explorer doesn't have any menu bar at all!
Comment of the year
I HATE the stupid ribbon. It's huge, messy, and unintuitive. Maybe it's time I switch to OSX.... or Linux even.
giggity
The Ribbon seems more usable on a touch screen. I guessing that is the primary reason for going that direction.
I've never really loved Ribbon UIs, but only because of PEBKACs around me coming to me whining cause they're useless at looking at something right in front of them. Why switching Explorer to a Ribbon UI sounds like a good move to me is because they're using it in other flagship products that actually sort of require and benefit from that kind of workflow. While Explorer could probably get away with a less able UI, the droves of PEBKACs that roam the planet will whimper and annoy slightly less if Explorer as the same UI as they see in other places. Old school PEBKACs will whine regardless, but new ones will not reach their peak crying-volume, thanks to decisions like this. I may loathe most things Microsoft, but really, I think they made a call that makes the average sanity level just a little better than if they'd done anything else. Now, if the MS Office team decides to make a totally new UI shortly after this, that'll be like the best self-trolling since Chris Crocker.
I admit I had to RTFA, but after reading it I like - it seems to solve a lot of the complaints they increase screen real estate (and even more if you hide the ribbon WHICH YOU CAN), and have added a crazy amount of shortcut keys and customization options to Explorer.
Windows 8 is looking pretty good but will have to see once it goes live if it lives up to the hype they're tossing.
I disagree with that post - yes, they have put features that are not commonly used and into an interface that wasn't commonly used - but to assume that this means it is a stupid move is wrong. Those functions were not used because they didn't exist. That interface wasn't used because it was hard to use. The new interface and new functions might actually be really useful to the user. I'm not saying they are, but that argument is flawed.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
'Of these, the ribbon approach offered benefits in line with our goals.'
Gotta sell more Microsoft mouses.
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
In this thead, users with seven digit uids defending the ribbon, users with less than seven digit uids decrying the ribbon.
*PSST. I THINK THE NEW USERS ARE ASTROTURFERS.*
Simons countered, saying that Microsoft's data -- obtained from millions of Windows people who agree to provide telemetry on how they use the operating system -- showed that 83% of users run Windows 7 on a widescreen display.
Oh, so this guy is on our side. Using a widescreen display, adding a thick ribbon to the top of every window reduces usable space for the user.
Oh, wait. Here's the full quote.
Simons countered, saying that Microsoft's data -- obtained from millions of Windows people who agree to provide telemetry on how they use the operating system -- showed that 83% of users run Windows 7 on a widescreen display. The new Explorer has been designed to make use of the screen's width and minimize the vertical space it consumes.
What? How does adding a ribbon minimize vertical space consumed? Can someone on the West Coast go up to Redmond and kick this guy in the crotch?
My office rolled out Office 2010 last week, and it's driving me bonkers. Outlook 2010 is a caricature, it's what Mad Magazine might design as a joke UI. I have a menu of folders on the left. I have tasks and upcoming meetings on the right. I have a list of messages on top. And on the bottom I have...I don't know what that thing is. "People Pane?" WTF is a people pane?
What I don't have, is much room left for viewing my EMAIL. You know, the purpose for having Outlook in the first place?
the ribbon approach offered benefits in line with our goals
My goals are to view my email, edit my docs, update spreadsheets, etc. My goals are obviously not in line with MS's goals.
(I did manage to minimize the ribbon and get rid of the task list on the right, so I do have a glimpse to the body of my emails, but I can't hide that damn people pane. Any tips would be appreciated. (Unfortunately uninstalling Outlook is not an option.))
Okay, maybe that was a bit harsh, I do generally like Windows 7 as my primary desktop, but c'mon, you can afford to hire some UI designers. Pay what you have to, and for gods sake don't let the programmers and engineers design anything.
"the ribbon approach offered benefits in line with our goals"
Apparently one of their goals is to keep me using Windows XP until the hardware it is running on can no longer be repaired.
The concept of the Pull-Down Menu was not broke.* It did not need to be "fixed".
*Actually Microsoft did break the Pull-Down Menu, by automatically removing things from it if you didn't use them often enough. In doing so they reduced the likelihood that you would remember seeing where a little-used feature was on the menu ("I think that was under Edit..."), or discover a "new" feature by seeing it listed there ("Hey, there's an option on the View menu to display full-screen!").
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
I was completely put off by the ribbon interface in Office and found it clumsy and unintuitive. That being said, I looked at the screen shots and read the reasoning behind putting a ribbon in the file browser. And I think it makes sense in this case. The commonly used actions are easy to find, the bar is fairly well laid out. Stuff that I'd usually right-click to bring up is there on the ribbon.
In generally it looks like they've made the interface quicker and easier to discover. I think some serious thought has gone into this and it looks like an improvement for most users.
W00t Just people want, applications ribbons taking up more valuable space, and less area for for actual work.
Apple will be laughing all the way to the bank with additional converts.
And no, I'm not an Apple user, but if they start putting respectable graphics cards in their 15" laptops, I will certainly give them even more consideration. Seriously, they need a top tier gfx card as an option. Their best laptop card is 2/3ds the speed of my 18 month old PC.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
[quote]The new look should also work better in situations when users opt to run Windows 8 in touch mode, Simons added. "As it so happens, while not primarily a touch interface, the ribbon also provides a much more reliable and usable touch-only interface than pull-down menus and context menus," Simons said.[/quote]
This is the only good thing about the Ribbon. It sucks for everything except for touch screen interfaces where hold-tap is awkward and select-tap-tap-tap to do a common command is tedious. I think it has hope for touch screen interfaces.. of course, most touch interfaces are small as well so they better provide options for downsizing the huge menu.
Hahaha, I love the Onion... ribbon in the file manager... hilarious! ...
Wait, what?
So, instead of drop down text menus, they make it horizontal with tabs and pictures and a few functions take up ALL of the real estate for additional functions due to the graphical nature of it all now? Yeah, the clear benefits of clicking an additional 4-8 times and going through different popups to change something that used to be 2-3 clicks.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Seriously, what the hell is wrong with them?
Ribbon was designed for tablet crap, reinforced by "tablet" support in Vista and Win7.
Here is an interesting idea, DESIGN A SEPARATE UI FOR PEOPLE WITH FAT FINGERS AND ARE ALMOST BLIND.
Stop crapping up my OS with stupid, huge, SCREEN-WASTING icons!
I'm not blind damn it! And I'll not use a damn tablet as long as I live. Not even 50 years time in the future where everything is all future-y and stuff.
Want to know what is even more insulting?
They done research and just THREW IT AWAY.
Nobody uses the damn menus.
The right-click button isn't named the context button for no reason. Hell, keyboards even have a context KEY. Ever wonder WHY Microsoft? You should know since you made the thing essentially standard!
Why would I ever want to move my mouse the hell up there when I can bring context to where the pointer is with one click?
That is the reason it was designed, it is the reason why Microsoft had one HUGE benefit over Apple OSes for many years.
WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS MICROSOFT? WHY DO YOU WANT TO TORTURE US EVEN MORE?
It is bad enough in Office, it was TERRIBLE in Paint, why do you want to force this crap on us in EXPLORER of all things?!
Seriously, I hope someone gets DirectX ported to Linux or something soon, I'm sick of this crap. (or OpenGL becomes more popular, doubtful now this XNA crap)
Everyone should take a look at the image in the link. Don't like the ribbon, click on the arrow at the top right to make it disappear. Many people are tired of right-click and then look down through the list for the function you want. If you are doing something repetitive or are a beginner (yes, there still are beginners on computers today), use the ribbon to get what you want. Sure, it takes space, but quit complaining like this is shoved down your throat. Just remove it from view and I'm sure you can right-click all day long.
How is it no one noticed that this is better for Touch-Screen devices? You don't have a keyboard (actually, a functional keyboard) on a smartphone or tablet, so expect to see a lot more mouse-based actions that can be translated over to touch-based actions.
At least they're bringing back the UP button!
From TFA:
Finally, as you may have noticed in several of the screen shots, we just had to bring back the “Up" button.
This is far and away the most requested improvement to Explorer, and a great opportunity to bring back some of Windows Explorer’s heritage features.
Considering a file directory is a hierarchical data structure comprised of parent -> child relationships, and the child directories/files are shown in the main window, it would be ABSOLUTELY IDIOTIC to remove the button that navigates to the parent directory in the first place! But what do I know, I'm no billionare MS Windows visionary UI genius.
At least they're bringing it back (which could easily be done in Win 7 w/ a quick update).
Unless they put in the functionality of Directory Opus, I'll stick with it.
Who care's about the ribbon? The only time I ever used the menu was to get to the config options anyway. With the new one, I'll just compress the ribbon and it'll be out-of-sight and out-of-mind.
Now there is one change I have been beging for for years. Why oh why can I not filter file lists from the path input box?
Really. Why can't I type in C:\temp\*.sql in explore just to get all my SQL files from the temp folder? Why must I jump through sort orders or search interfaces to find this one file I know is in the folder I'm looking at?
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
If you can't use the ribbon effectively I don't even know what to say really.
Especially if you also use Ubuntu, which is a quantum leap in terms of shitty interfaces.
The ribbon doesn't break this, it just changes it. Large buttons are the ones most used and they gradually get smaller until it is a menu button.
Why, why, why, why, WHY?
I'll eat my shoes if you can name one specific feature or UI element that has significantly improved the usability of Windows or Office since 2000 that couldn't have simply been retrofitted with no more effort than it took to add to the current version.
But... you just double-click the tab, and it goes away, taking up even less space... it's easy! This new design will actually do wonders for your average user. You know, good old computer illiterate hunt-and-peck J. Random User, who doesn't know any keyboard shortcuts and really can't be taught to use them.
I'm sorry, but in what way is this news? This has been floating around the internet since about March. suddenly it becomes news when Microsoft finally admits it?
>'We knew that using a ribbon for Explorer would likely be met with skepticism by a set of power users, but there are clear benefits,' Simons said."
Benefits for the stupid perhaps.
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
Once you remember that the ribbon is a horizontally-oriented, tabbed menu for people too stupid to read words, it all makes sense. Right?
That is all.
Seems a lot more touch UI friendly. I'm guessing this was the primary reason for going with the Ribbon. Also, although the Ribbon takes up more vertical space, the huge details bar at the bottom has been dropped in favor of a details panel on the right side, which gives a net-positive screen space usage for the Ribbon.
but the new way actually does let you get complex things done faster.
Faster? Because frequently performed actions are at the front of the menu queue? If you want to do frequently performed actions faster, learn the hot key sequence. I will stomp the ass of a ribbon user ten times out of ten, because I know the hot keys. Fast users don't even look at the menu.
If they wanted to really improve things, they would research what hot key sequences were most used, and make those the simplest combos. And yes, the ribbon is ASS.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I'm looking at the screenshot right now. http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-43-metablogapi/7245.Figure_2D00_8_2D002D002D00_Win8_2D00_Hero_5F00_449B7A36.png
The top left of the Explorer window is a morass of buttons and text things. I actually don't understand it.
The window title bar has several icons on it. First looks like the application icon - but it looks like a text document icon. Then there is a yellow icon - an open folder? After that there is a ticked document. What is that for? Then there is a downward arrow thing - does that bring up more menus?
THEN we get the application title - but oh no, it's not centred. There's a weird "Library Tools" thing encroaching from the ribbon into the window's title bar. Now I know that this happens in Office, e.g., "Table Tools", but it's just additional confusion here.
So under that we get the Ribbon. Great! The Ribbon is essentially an icongraphic tabbed representation of a menu. We can see the different Ribbons here - File, Home, Share, View, and that Library Tools - Manage one.
But ... wait ... File is dark blue. Home is white. The others are grey-blue. Which one is the active tab? Why is the other one a different appearance? Confusing!
Then there's a carat on the right hand side. Does that hide the ribbon? No idea.
The ribbon itself is a typical ribbon - common actions are bigger. I can see that it would be useful for a touch interface... but...
Oh look how small the Cut icon is - vindicating Apple's decision to not offer Cut as an option in Finder, perhaps?
What is a New Easy Access?
View is a separate Ribbon (I think) - no more quick view changes eh!
Oh, I can't continue. I have been presented with what appears to be a contender for worst UI of the decade, and it's only 2011.
It's kind of hard to take him seriously when he claims the menu bar has been "made bigger and more prominent", right underneath a screenshot showing that Windows 8 Explorer doesn't have any menu bar at all!
Umm... The ribbon is generally considered a replacement for the menu bar.
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
You call that "better information"? How about reading the thing you're criticizing instead of just looking at the pretty pictures. Right below Microsoft's graph about command usage -- which you try to use as evidence that Microsoft is stupid or not paying attention -- is the following:
With greater than 85% of command usage being invoked using a method other than the primary UI, there was clearly an opportunity to improve the Explorer user experience to make it more effective—more visible and uniformly accessible.
And your counter-argument is that they shouldn't touch the UI because nobody uses it? You should send Microsoft a resume; I'm sure they could use a big thinker like you.
Breakfast served all day!
... and? What's your point?
The car is generally considered the replacement for a horse and buggy, but that doesn't mean they are the same thing.
Comment of the year
It's the fscking Explorer they have bolted it on. The same with Office: The ribbon is actually not a bad idea, but if the whole app is just a pile of functionality with no rhyme or reason to it, the ribbon just feels bad. The fact that the whole UI design is bland and confusing (especially since everything seems to be colored areas and text and pale symbols with no clear definition of what is content and what is tools) doesn't help of course.
Since XP Microsoft seems to be on a rampage to make every window look like a webpage where you have to hover over, click, double-click, right-click and drag everything to find out what happens.
I, for one, welcome our new ribbon-wielding overlords.
That is exactly the problem. The whole concept of pocket computers sucks totally, and "touch" is one reason why.
Sport? the ribbon is sported ??!! Sure, in the way that the undershorts of a person with influenza might sport a yellow-brown stripe, or the corpse of an axe murder victim sports a cleft in the skull
Which is why I'm using linux now, and am going back to debian from Ubuntu: "Like it or Leave it." So I left Windows & will leave Ubuntu, too.
http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-43-metablogapi/8422.Figure-21-_2D00_-Real-Estate-comparison_5F00_2.png
2 files more visible; that will help with large directories.
Less info about the file. hmm. I think I can do without.
a LOT more ***, oh wait that IS the ribbon.
Privacy is terrorism.
I've been an anonymous coward for years, but I finally decided to register today, for some unknown reason. In any case, the post I was going to make as an AC is below: here has been some typical outcry about this change (eg "TEH NOES RIBBONS R TEH CARP") - but I think this is genuinely a Good Thing (TM) - I hated ribbons at first too - but after a couple years of using office 2007/2010 I have become accustomed to the ribbons - and what I see among less... skilled users is that they greatly prefer the ribbons. I have had no trouble in office continuing to use my keyboard shortcuts I learned many years ago - and I am sure it will be the same for this change as well. It will simply give more options and/or make them more accessible for those who don't have all the keyboard shortcuts memorized :)
Better information about Microsoft's researches: http://seldo.tumblr.com/post/9549775746/this-is-genuinely-microsofts-idea-of-a lol
That's pretty much the most idiotic response yet, they've seen that the menu bar isn't widely used and decided to improve it, the context menus and hotkeys are used a lot so leave them as-is.
Both his criticisms make no sense. Regarding his first (remaining 50% of the bar is taken up by buttons that nobody will ever use) - the space is already there. Do you want to use the space to put some useful commands, or do you leave it blank ? Obviously my choice would be to add some useful command. Empty space serves nothing.
The second criticism is even more nonsense. MS is not taking away the context menu or the hotkey - in fact if you read the blog, they are adding more shortcuts. They are only combining the command bar and menu bar into one and making it more prominent. Whats the harm in that ? It even has more vertical space!
But my wife thinks it's stupid. This makes her just like all of you dumb freetards. She is ready for the sperm of one thousand geek dicks to squirt all over her big titties. Here is a picture of her.
Captcha: slither
seriously
Neither for power users nor for the stupid. It is not at all clear who benefits from "the ribbon."
as some places are now just getting to windows 7 and a NEW UI in 8 just makes it even harder to go to 8 now.
Back when ribbons was first "disclosed", they made a point to say, "this particular female employee" came to us with it. I get she was a mere employee, but if she came up with the UI Microsoft is "hanging their hat on", perhaps she deserves a unilateral stock offering from the board, ala the Apple board re: Tim Cook. Just saying. Please.
JJ
THEN we get the application title - but oh no, it's not centred.
On what planet does Windows any application title?
DO NOT WANT!
The problem I see is that, as a regular windows user, you might learn the meaning of all the icons in the ribbon of the Explorer after a while.
However, application programs, with their own unique functionality, will use a mostly different set of unique icons. Space will be more and more cramped, and the "Open" or "Copy" button will be at a slightly different location for each program.
Just imagine what Photoshop or a powerful CAD program would look like if it followed this user Interface style.
If you ask for my vision, here it is:
Not Pretty!
I seem to have accidentally a word.
"On what planet does Windows center any application title?"
... OFFER BOTH OF THEM!!!!
.. would it really take that much more to keep the EXISTING MENUS but add an option to use a ribbon for those that like them or are new users??? I thought Windows and C++ was supposed to support some type of modular programming, it should be a piece of cake to chose one widget over another one. Just plug it in. I know it's pretty easy in Java to do it.....
Jeez
Any benefit from ribbons (which I haven't seen any yet) is lost from me not being able to find stuff. Excel was just plain nasty trying to find things in. I still have a difficult time finding things that I don't use very often, but had used enough to make some sense about why they were in a specific menu.
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
Agreed. I use it daily since about 2000. Works fine in FreeBSD and Linux as well (under Wine).
I am currently working on a Word document that has all the usual bells and whistles: tables, multiple styles, bullets, pictures, drawigs, etc.
It is awful.
Most of the time is spent moving the mouse around and switchings tabs.
Sure, it is easier to find the various commands with the Ribbon, but it takes a lot more time than toolbars. With toolbars, whatever you needed was there, you just had to move the mouse to reach it. Now, with the Ribbon, you have to move the mouse, click the appropriate tab AND move the mouse to the appropriate command.
Whoever designed the Ribbon is a complete moron. It now takes double the time to do the same work.
Until the Internet age, all marketing was the art of finding the person in the middle, and then advertising to get everyone to cluster tightly about that. Then you just don't serve the 20% falling off each edge of the curve. That makes the task of meeting customer expectations simple. One product fits all.
Microsoft has discovered that the large body of users is made up of people who do not read, or think in logical/textual terms. As they move into hand held devices, linked to everyone's communications, they will find that an even more compelling fact. Therefore you should expect an effort, at Microsoft, to strip down and simplify everything toward what the 20% do. Does not matter that the 20% are screwed. Trying to be nice to that 20% costs a lot, for little return. Profit-minded mass-appeal-product companies DON'T DO THAT.
As I am in the 20%, I expect to keep on using Ubuntu 98% of the time.
I didn't like it in Office.... I think it looks cluttered and messy.
The ribbon is retarded. --I DO NOT WANT IT-- The menu system is not broken, so stop trying to fix it. It's worked fine the past 30 years, it will continue to work fine for the next 30. Stop trying to justify your time and jobs by cramming something down our throats that we neither want nor need. I stopped using Office because of the ribbon. Looks like windows is next.
Fair point. It just looks fricking weird with that "Library Tools" thing. What is Library Tools anyway? And why is it in the title bar?
Never mind all the other icons that make the window look schizophrenic.
Dump the ribbon. Have a row of larger icons that consist of the top 10 to 15 actions that users do, with the option to have a text label beneath the icons. No need for a ribbon. Put all the other functionality into a menu or context sensitive pull down menu icon on the toolbar.
a 2012 O.S. w/o tabbed browsing shows how much FAIL M.S. is still capable of........
So its just a matter of hiding the ribbon interface. Not like I used the menu bar in Explorer (with very rare exceptions, but the ribbon makes no difference here).
This is just more evidence microsoft is abandoing the corperation for the pc market. They wont win and the product that once ruled coperate networks has become a burden.... It was bad enough for it to be riddled full of holes, but now you cant even have an image without jumping through hoops...
One classic example is the difference between the Qwerty and the Dvorak keyboards, yes the Dvorak keyboard is supposedly more efficient and can be implemented easily on modern computer systems. The Dvorak keyboard never over took the Qwerty keyboard which reigns supreme. However, what has evolved is that we have a choice of what type of keyboard we want to use. So if you do not like the Ribbon versions then get a replacement.
Alternatives to Windows Explorer.
At least one of the above is open source. As for replacements for Microsoft Office and its ribbon interface, Google is your friend if you want to find proprietary or free version and if you are really lazy then I will list two open source alternatives for Office suites.
For the record I use Microsoft Office, because where I teach that is the default software, however, I install open office and now libre office on my family's and friends computers. You should see there eyes when I tell them its free.
For the record I use opens source software and operating systems and if something gets up my nose like the current Gnome 3 issue then I just change.
Kind regards
Slashdotgirl
The more I know, the less I know
Windows 7 is bad enough already, especially with it's "brain dead" excuse for a file manager. Now M$ wants to make it even worse.
M$ WIndows 8 just joined Fedora Core 15 on my list of operating systems to never use again. Will wonders never cease?
The Realm of S?!? Oh noes!
When Microsoft hosed their search utility in Windows 7, it was programs like Agent Ransack that came to the rescue for people such as me who HATE the Microsoft Indexing Service and horrid search engine in Windows 7.
Citing this as an example, I am willing to bet that other tools, perhaps the revival of Windows/Total Commander level tools will emerge post Windows 8 that will assist us "geezers" to maintain a similar level of keyboard shortcuts without Point-Click to achieve the same objective.
Remember, Microsoft doesn't listen to the people who service or administrate said systems, they listen to the masses who bring them the most money, the consumer.
Quick, what's the latest, hottest, browser out there? Google Chrome.
What's Google Chrome's strength? It hides the menus and stuff, and only shows bookmarks when you're most likely to want them.
So, does Microsoft design a file manager that works like Chrome, hiding the most unusual features deep in menus?
No! They spill everything out in a giant mass of buttons.
/facepalm
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
I remember back when XP came out and I had to switch from ME. I didn't change to Linux because Linux was easier. I changed because XP was heading in a downward spiral. I couldn't do half the stuff I needed to in any sort of efficient manor. Not to mention much of the things Microsoft has done has made things more complicated and harder to manage. For instance in XP the networking wizards with a dozen questions replaced the network configuration screen. What I could do with a few clicks before now took a dozen different screens (due to the wizard they forced on you).
The ribbon will cause others to leave like the wizards did it for me.
Now Canonical and KDE 4.0 team will not look so bad.
Microsoft truly believes they can force something long enough and people will just give in. Maybe years ago they could, now people will just go elsewhere. I'm an IT professional that has been in the game since Windows 3.1/Dos 6.22, the ribbon does nothing well or make life easier for pros or users. It isn't an improvement in usability. I refuse to believe they have done usability studies with real users and can defend the ribbon or the use in something like this. I watch people struggle with it daily on both ends of the spectrum.
Why not actually innovate. Forget trying to out-Apple Apple, forget trying to push the ribbon, in fact... forget everything and start fresh. It blows my mind that there are still certain windows and features that are *from* Windows 95/98 IN the newest OSes... give up, admit defeat and start fresh. They almost had something with the Courier, get some fresh non-MS talent and go in a new direction.
http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
Yea, I admit it. I like the ribbon, a lot. Is there a twelve step program out there for me?
I will admit that when Office came with the ribbon, I went ballistic. I couldn't stand it, swore up and down &^$(*)#@ MICROSOFT!!! I even uninstalled it and went back to the old version. One of my co-workers kept the new Office with it's ribbon. One day I was working with him on some documentation, and I was blown away that he was able to do things quicker than I could on the old version. Then I switched back, reluctantly. Now that I've worked with it, I couldn't live without it.
Now for Explorer. I'm looking forward to it. I also do off the clock support (who doesn't for friends, parents, side work, etc), and I am just amazed at the number of "average" people who don't use Explorer, or who are intimidated by it. It's frustrating to be on the phone with someone and I ask them to open Explorer and find a file and delete/copy/send/etc. it, they tend to get really nervous, scared, apprehensive, by the request. But these people sure know how to get around and do some neat stuff with the Office ribbon.
I really believe that once it hits the streets, and people (average people) use it, it will be a success.
P.S.
NO, I don't work for Microsoft. I don't even have any more valid MS certifications left.
YES, I have been using Explorer since 1.0 (seriously I ran Windows 1.0), I do miss the Explorer from XP., W7 Explorer is almost worthless IMHO.
... if you want to know what needs fixing in Explorer, look at the graph labeled "Command usage in Windows Explorer" and note that "Refresh" is in sixth place.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
I see M$ intends to keep up with the tradition of alternatively releasing systems that more-or-less work and systems that really suck. Let's get ready for another round of "OMG the world isn't buying 8 and is staying with 7!!!1!".
>'We knew that using a ribbon for Explorer would likely be met with skepticism by a set of power users, but there are clear benefits,' Simons said."
Benefits for the stupid perhaps.
Think about the people that you know who use computers. Now divide them into "skilled computer users" and "not skilled computer users". Which group has more people in it?
un-ALTERED reproduction and dissimination of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED
Big buttons. Tablet-ready. The ribbon might not be for conventional PCs?
Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
For good reason. The ribbon sucks and is NOT more efficient.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Please die.
... looks like something created by some Microsoft developer's gut bacteria.
Have gnu, will travel.
Would it have killed them to give you the option of keeping the old interface? After years of using the old menu-bar interface, I have no desire to learn a new one just because someone at Microsoft thinks it has "clear benefits".
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/win8f.png/
I think like most reasonable people not obsessed with bashing a particular company, I will wait until I have had a chance to actually play with it and see what customization is available befor I go scream bloody murder. That is coming from someone who does not like ribbons but won't mind them if I can get what I want from them.
Nice idea, but the Date Modified values are retained in Windows from whenever the files in the zip were previously altered -- so sorting by this field is no guarantee that you'll get the files you want.
Cheers,
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Instead of trying to add (what I would consider) spurious features to the UI such as Ribbon, they should start by fixing all the suck that is currently Windows Explorer. There is ZERO reason it should be as single-threaded as it currently is -- network problems should NEVER freeze the GUI.
the ribbon approach offered benefits in line with our goals.
Translation:
My boss told me that we must do this, and damn the consequences. A number of our predecessors attempted to cogently explain the downsides of ribbon-based interfaces. They were promptly fired for insubordination. Upon being hired as replacements, we came to the same conclusion as our predecessors, and we were informed that our fate would be the same if we did not change our tune. We have since re-defined the goals of the project and decided it's good enough, and we're doing it no matter what. We are very sorry about this, but, eh... it's a paycheck, you know?
We knew that using a ribbon for Explorer would likely be met with skepticism by a set of power users, but there are clear benefits.
Translation:
We have a mandate from on high to do this. No one gives a fuck about whet our users think because 90% of them are completely technically incompetant anyway. The ribbon is defined declaratively with XML, and that makes it easier for us to code. So go fuck yourselves.
That's where Microsoft is spending all their energy these days? The ribbon? I'm surprised Steve Ballmer is still employed.
there's no place like ~
For some reason I was reading the list of documents in the screenshot of the new Windows 8 Explorer. Near the bottom... a .odt file.
I never thought MS would acknowledge it's existence.
We show geeks how to get their dream girl at EyesOfOdessa.com
Seriously, according to TFA, 1% of users use the "New Folder" command in Windows Explorer while a gobsmackingly large 6% of users use the "New Item" command. Seriously? Who creates a new Word doc this way??? Or Excel? Or anything else, for that matter? Stubbing out a blank document is non-sensical to me...and I'm apparently alone in that.
---- Please be nice in case my Slashdot karma ~= my real life karma.
By gmckelos "I took a swipe at notepad ribbon..." and two lines under that "I took a swipe at wordpad ribbon..."
They can't even get good reviews from people.
If so, then I'm guessing their data set is missing some crucial telemetry from the people who use explorer more than anyone else.
I'm completely in favor of improving the functionality of explorer but it seems like every time they make an improvement they permanently remove a function I frequently used.
Removing the giant preview bar at the bottom = good.
Replacing it as well as the menu with a piece of shit ribbon that takes up even more space? = That's fucked up and stupid!
And for the pro-ribbon folks out there: I want the speed and functionality of the Windows NT 4.0 Explorer (pre-IE4 integration) and its simple index, with the security and stability of Windows 7. And I really don't know why we can't have it both ways. Let's have the ribbon and/or the standard menu be optional. Just because most interfaces are looking more and more like kiosks, doesn't mean that all of us like the change. I'm posting this with Google Chrome and if it had a menu, I would turn it on.
Actually i see it from the other side, you have people who are using a computer as part of their job. Customising the computer and learning where menu items are located actually reduces productivity.
I work in the healthcare industry and have perhaps some of the most "technically challenged" users on the face of the planet, yes they have had basic computer training but after it has taken years for them to learn enough bout the computers to do their jobs efficiently, changes to the user interface can seriously effect their productivity and for staff nearing retirement can basically mean a large part of the last few years of their working lives is wasted trying to do simple things they used to be able to do on previous versions of software.
In fact in the healthcare world, changes to the UI can lead to inefficiencies which can have a cascading effect which can directly impact peoples healthcare
This is not Microsoft bashing, Gnome and KDE are have also been susceptible to monumental brain farts in screwing with the UI as well.
They should provide at least the option to go back to classic menus, i cannot see the point in not providing at least that option.
Please let me turn off the damned icons, in their case a picture is not worth a thousand words!
I like the "easy access" menu in the middle of the ribbon. Does this contain the old menu structure under it?
Microsoft is going down the road that the American auto industry did back in the 70s and 80s. Bad styling, superfluous trim, crappy quality and and the new feature is 20 cup holders. hey start fixating on design issues that the customer cares nothing about. Does anyone know if Open Office might start supporting a file manager? Any suggestions for other open source file managers?
When I search for things to delete, I can't trust that the file list won't change under me. I delete files 1 by 1.
In outlook, searches complete with the focus being put on the first result. I have deleted more emails than I've found as a result.
Searches don't even work. I've posted before about not being able to find things. Dir /b /s is my favorite thing in the world.because Vista's search is *not*.
I use Vista at work, and cannot wait till I get off of it. Meanwhile, if I can't find a better file manager, I'm writing one. It sucks, on eggs. 7 I haven't had a lot of experience with. I have it at home, but usually work on the work notebook rather than turning on the home PC. And I can watch TV if I'm using the notebook.
-Search does not return the expected results
-Search updates itself in the middle of an operation
-Explorer changes focus. Try hitting 'Tab' a few times and see how may flashes you get. The more, the worse the programmer is.
-Explorer is like punching yourself in the nuts, if you have nuts. Otherwise, it is like ripping out your uterus. If you have neither, understand that it is unpleasant.
In short, go fuck yourself, Windows, and your stupid file manager. If there is nothing better, I will write it. If there is, I will improve it.
I *will* be better than you. Because you suck, and I don't.
True, you have to learn something, but it's pretty mnemonic if you knew the old way: Alt allowed you to show shortcuts and choose commands from menus, ribbons replace menus, so you use Alt to show shurtcuts and choose commands.
Using a key -- whether Alt or not -- is a much more useful way of displaying shortcuts than mouse hover: if you're about to type Alt-whatever, and realise you don't know the 'whatever' part, you hit Alt and see your options, and complete the command by using the shortcut you've just discovered, thereby helping learn it.
The alternative is to move your hand from the keyboard to the mouse, move the mouse to the icon, *not click*, wait for the tooltip, read it... then, you can either move your hand back to type the shortcut, or just click immediately to execute the command. Time-consuming and not too effective in learning. ("Do what I read last time, not what I did last time.")
Because even though I hate the ribbon, no actual power user really USES Windows Explorer as a file manager.
I'm tired of the belly aching from computer geeks that they can't adapt to a new system. Is it that challenging to give a new GUI an hour or two? As if the old windows system was that great to navigate.
Let me guess, you know how to use VI but the ribbon is too complex? Which CLI makes sense to a new user?
The next thing that I'm going to hear is that the interface with Zork and Kings Quest was intuitive. Of course, I do patiently wait for that trend to return.
Wasn't File Manager decommissioned after Windows NT 4.0?
So are they bringing it back or just enhancing Explorer?
Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
Before Netscape, buttons were small.
Netscape make it big, with icons and text in one button.
Then IE followed the same, and few iterations later, text goes to the side, and few iterations later, text gone again.
So, will IE get the ribbon? If MS is so adamant about ribbonizing, I expect IE to do the same.
i believe there is a port of KDE desktop environment to windows, although i think it is still a beta. so the second thing i will do when i buy a new computer (the first being to install linux in a duel boot) will be to install this and open/libra-office and chrome AND OR firefox thus avoiding the new M$ windows GUI and ribbon interface.
Ribbon is not so bad, but does waste space. However the rest of Explorer is pretty lame. Tabs? Search and open folders (but not in search mode?) Ability to dock with applications? Split Views? Anything? Anything...you know...USEFUL?
Prediction: eventually, after years, they will bring the old menubar back and call it an improvement...
...and the first to be replaced. So, whatever Microsoft decides to do with the file manager is pretty irrelevant to me. I say this as someone generally pretty happy with Windows 7 otherwise.
From one of the articles:
This should have been a headline all for itself: Microsoft UI specialists "come out" about CLI preference.
The alternative would be to make a smaller ribbon/toolbar/whatever. It would also have the advantage of taking up less screen space from the list of files, which could be considered useful for a file manager.
How many files can a explorer show (vertically) on a 768p display?
Vista: 22 files
Windows 7: 24 files (hey, improvement!)
omitted for clarity / marketing reasons:
Windows XP: 34 files
It took MS years to get tabs into IE so I guess I should not be too surprised, but tabs in a file manager GUI are very, very useful and something I miss sorely when I'm forced to use Windows for the occasional task.
looks like win7 is my last OS.
I really don't have a problem with that.
They re-added the "UP" button! Isn't anyone else happy about this?
I find it interesting that they are so determined to put the ribbon interface everywhere, yet they went the opposite way with IE9 and reduce interface clutter...
It may seem a bit silly, but this is all part of a differentiation strategy. Office 2010 (and 2007 before that) are deliberately changing the user-experience while they still can! They want to push people into a new frame of mind, so that Libre/Open/Star office have to also keep changing to keep up.
Obviously this could back fire - i.e. people move to OpenOffice rather than put up with the useless ribbon UI; but if the longer they waited the more this would have happened.
IANAP (I am not a programmer), but I am a strategy consultant, and actually, this move is bad for customers, but rather annoyingly, good for Microsoft...
Step 1: Take a random selection of clearly labelled and ordered commands off your menus.
Step 2: Give each an opaque icons of varying sizes.
Step 3: Mix them up in a goo made from the tears of a frustrated users
Step 4: Spread them evenly over your Windows (TM) interface like sick on toast.
Step 5: Laugh like an evil genius at the millions of wasted hours spent trying to find things.
When pulldown menus were introduced they were wonderful because users could easily see what functions were available in an application. They just needed to access the file menu for file related actions, the edit menu for things to do with editing, etcetera. Much better than those applications you needed to study before understanding them. That was the idea, anyway. Now that everyone uses a computer it turns out many people don't explore at all, many will never think: "Hey, what is this command I see in the menu, let's find out what it does." Some won't even recognise that a file menu will likely contain actions on files, it is just a meaningless word and all they will learn are recipies like "click here... click there... press ok" when someone is around to teach them.
Microsoft tries to solve it by throwing everything available in the user's face. By having a ribbon showing everything at once, and by showing the effect of actions when the user accidentally hovers the mouse pointer over a ribbon icon. Perhaps then they will notice. (It won't solve all problems, people will go for visual appearances in stead of learning to understand how to structure a text, for instance.)
One style of UI is *not* good for everyone, just like different people have different shoe sizes. You work best with something that suits you. I like to type commands and have minimal graphical interfaces, someone else doesn't use anything that makes their eyes hurt, and only want the smoothest GUIs, and a third works best when everything available is visible at once. Fine, there should be room for all.
It's regrettable that, while everyone involved in building software knows it's a good idea to separate the presentation layer from the domain logic, this never seems to result in word processors and other applications with different user interfaces for different people. We all need to wrestle our feet into the same shoes. Of course some will think it's the best thing ever while for others it will hurt.
Imagine, how amazing it would be if it could also auto-complete your commands! Like your start typing P-A-S and hit Tab and it completes it to "paste"! And you could also type in "help paste" and it would show you info about this command! With such an awesome interface we don't even need buttons or menus, just an empty screen with input prompt!
*sigh*
I guess such an advanced interface like this won't be available until Windows 9.
Please tell me the auto-repositioning behavior of the Explorer treeview has been rolled back to the correct XP/2003 behavior, where expanding a directory node keeps the position of the expanded node fixed. The "new" behavior of expanding a node and having that node go to the bottom of the window, thus hiding all the expanded nodes (directories) is just infuriating.
You sound like a person with low IQ or some form of mental illness. Our company secretaries got used to it in under a week. Funny how all the computer "experts" on this website are unable to learn a new UI.
than a terrible idea could ever possibly be. This whole retarded change in interface in the name of 'innovation' in my mind, is analogous to how Bob Rock wanted to do something 'different' with the St. Anger album by Metallica. Producing a well formed, hard turd in a toilet.
PowerDesk is a replacement file manager for Windows. I could not use Windows without PowerDesk. I have used it since Mijinx came out with it in the late 1990s. The program has been bought by several companies, and languished for a while, but came out with a 64-bit version recently. I have no connection to this company (in fact I can't even remember who owns it now), I'm just a happy user.
No ribbon or anything, just a useful left-side-tree style file manager with all the bells and whistles you'd ever want.
How about a open source UI.
So that any one could write one. And then we can see some really innovation or some really messes. And let evolution do its best in not so many years we will have a lovely interface that works.
Thank you Microsoft, really you are right Ubuntu is perfect for me. You are so right.
Seriously poor windows users. It is just getting worse they take two steps forward but one step back :(
With Vista put blackboxed so many things that I couldn't fix you anymore. With Windows 7 you "secured" so many things that I couldn't fix you anymore. And now you even take away the simple basic layouts?
I want to break into the homes of the designers of the ribbon UI, take away all their cabinets, closets, and dressers, spead all their belongings on the floor in piles, grin, and congatulate them on their newly organized home where they can find everything more easily.
is it possible to un-ribbonize? Like you know, right-click somewhere and have an option that says "Show classic menus" ???
Microsoft used to do scientific research on UI, usability, and human-machine interaction. Wrote some classic reference texts on the subjects. Published studies online. What research did they do this time? They claim to have done research, but I have a hard time locating it anywhere. They claim it aids discoverability of functions, etc. but in my experience it has been nothing but confusing, annoying, and more difficult to use. A lot of my beloved functions simply go missing! Instead of memorizing the fact that my software has functionality, I have to memorize visual information and spatial-structural information in multiple hierarchical dimensions to use the app - AS WELL AS the command name associated with the functionality - which prior to ribbons was basically the only thing I really had to remember about the app. Do you see how this approach is a burden on the user???
Please give me back the 3.1 manager. Don't like 'improvements' such as the continuously changing folders (viewing style based on folder contents), useless panes and terrible default grouping options. Why the F would I want to group A-C etc...?
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/08/29/improvements-in-windows-explorer.aspx
...pushing people off of Windows and onto Android, iOS, Mac, and Linux. Is that in-line with their goals? Probably not, but it is certainly a huge benefit.
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
Art for arts sake ? - The ribbon is er.. UN-intuitive . i support many Windows users, and the remaining few who still dont 'get it' .. they dont have a clue about combo boxes, widgets, or anything .. except for the 1% that are actually tangible and practical. its mainly experienced users
and haven't yet switched to 'free software' (despite my recommendations) just stare at me blankly
when the word 'ribbon' is used to describe a GUI widget. well, unsurprisingly, non geeks expect a ribbon
to be blue or pink, and tie up hair or something
and are told 'dont click anything you dont understand' in the web world, and having just taken that on board
are having to break that mindset temporarily, just to discover what they used to do in the last version
with the fear of losing the whole work they've just spend 3 hours inputting.. most users dont really care about
new features
and geeks who tire of the same old interface, and the old argument of saving screen-real estate is a pretty
lame one at that, as monitor sizes and resolutions are zooming up up and away.
just my 2c worth...
Slashdot hates windows, love linux, and kinda love mac. So bad comments as expected. Enterprises are going to think twice before upgrading windows 8, as they always do in major versions. But for average Joe, is going to be ok to have the new shinny windows box in perhaps a new laptop.
The wrong way is clicking around like a monkey.
The right way is intelligently selected keyboard shortcuts.
It takes less time to learn the shortcuts than it does to learn any half ass menu system
good thing a debian DL is just 9 keys away .....
I know we all hate the ribbon in Office, but I do see one use case where there could be a benefit: tablets.
If Windows 8 is intended to be tablet friendly, it can't rely too much on right-click operations for common tasks. Yes, you can right-click in Windows 7 with a click and hold, but it sucks. On a touch-based interface you either need a hardware Menu button like Android does it, or you need to be able to get to common commands directly from the file manager.
If they can just figure out a decent way to select multiple files using only the touchscreen, I can see this as potentially useful.
...but not quite as good. At least I can boot into Gnome 3 if I want.
Or Gnome 2.
Or Enlightenment.
Or ....hmmm, so many choices...
Not that I would ever care to use MS Office or the Explorer shell on a tablet device, but I can see how this would be somewhat useful for touchscreen input; however I HATE the way everything is transitioning from well organized text-based contextual menus, to big shiny icons that take up a ton of space, its like everyone has forgotten how to f'ing read. It makes it damn near impossible to walk somebody through a task over the phone when there's no text label on the things that you're telling them to look for and click on. Slightly offtopic, yet somewhat relevant; I also despise the proliferation of videos everywhere on the internet replacing well written articles of text and photos. Its like the computer industry is starting to cater to the caliber of people (illiterate) that write Youtube comments and post on Yahoo groups, awesome.
grep -iw skynet
From the video: "One of the coolest features the explorer team is proud of is opening a shell terminal on a specific path". Yeah, right, you mean getting ASAP out of explorer is the best feature? Hilarious! They try to tone that down as "because you want to run batch files". Holy cow, so maybe they borked double click now and you can't run anything without going through some ribbon? Development at its finest.
I bet this is all about making Windows more finger friendly. The large ribbon buttons would be *way* easier to interact with your finger than any traditional file menu.
And to think I already hated the Windows 7 file explorer because I can't customize it to get rid of that stupid shortcuts bar! It wastes about 2x as much vertical space as my customized Windows XP file explorer does. For years what I've done is this:
(1) put most-used toolbar buttons after the menubar menus on the same row, and delete the other buttons
(2) put an address bar below the toolbar, and hide all the other crap such as Favorites. Thats it. Two rows.
(3) display it in Details view (the only useful view, IMO). Set it to use this same setting globally for all folders.
My web browsers are also configured the same way, to waste the minimum amount of vertical space on menus and buttons, and keep as much as possible of the space available for displaying the actual content I care about. Since I started using Windows 7, I've just had to deal with the fact that the Windows 7 file explorer wastes egregious amounts of space.
Oh, and I hate the ribbon interface and find it completely unusable. Fortunately, none of the tools I use on a day-to-day basis require the ribbon (except newer versions of Araxis Merge, which is why I'm still using the old version 6.5 from ages ago). The other day I was trying to figure out how to Print a single slide from a Powerpoint slide deck -- another tool I hardly ever use -- and after 30 seconds of fucking around with the ribbon, clicking on every tab and hovering over every goddamn button to look at their tooltips, I finally found it under the "giant windows logo" button menu thing (another UI abomination from Microsoft).
The 2 problems with the ribbon interface:
1. As a standardized layout, it just does not work well in Excel or Access. In Word, it is a pain. In Excel, it is a roadblock.
2. By occupying the same area, nothing is always in one place unless it is on the QAT bar. Again. Failure.
Well, that sounds like Windows 8 is a glorified web app. so why bother. It will be SOOOOO convoluted that it will be "Hasta-La"Vista (stage two)!
Every other release is crap windows 286, Windows 3.0, Win98, Windows Milenium (guess that was leap year, Plus 98 SE was in between), Windows 2000/XP were same thing with different "skins", Vista, now Windows 2008.
Gates is buying stock in John Deere......that should tell you something.....BTW besides Tractors, they make manure spreaders!!! How appropriate
I quit using explorer years ago after windows XP explorer has to hiccup and crash all the time, it just won't stay running for me. go get an alternative I guess, AGAIN.... 2xexplorer is still working well, 7zip file manager is way ahead of them, look at their big buttons, winrar too... I hope they put all their buttons in one big toolbar to utilize my widescreen (buttons all the way!) ribbons suck. they work for Office , I know ppl who like it in there, but for a sH*TTY file manager to begin with, they just pile on the SH*T more
Dear microsoft developers. Please die in a fire. Seriously. Stop trying to tell people what they want. The ribbon is NOT superior. It is annyoing as all hell. Can't stand the damn thing. I don't know a single person who likes it.
I already like explorer from 7 MUCH less than XP. What happened to my search options? What the fsck is with the indexing of large directories making them slower to browse than ever before? Seriously, 7 has better eye candy and stability and some other things... But explorer is actually WORSE than it used to be. What is wrong with you people? /.ers, can you please point me to a better file manager than explorer? I actually have started using total commander for some functions. I'd like to know what you guys use for alternatives.
Wow, certainly interesting to see how frustrated so many users are with the Ribbon. About 3 years ago, after spending months suffering with it, when I stumbled across a 3rd party Office add-in product that brings back the classic MS Office menus (updated with the features from the newer versions), into any or all of the Office 2007and 2010 applications, of your choice. If you really want to go Office old school, you can (optionally) remove the Ribbon completely. It's worked extremely well for me.
They charge for most of their products but they also offer a free version for personal, non-commercial use, that works for the basic Office apps ( Word, Excel & Powerpoint). Link to the free Classic Menu for Office 2010 download:
http://www.extendoffice.com/download/classic-menu-for-office.html
Link to the free Classic Menu for Office 2007:
Classic Menu for Office 2007
The also offer an Office Tab product appears to be an implementation of a Tabbed, Multiple Document Interface for Office 2007 and 2010. Same deal, the Basic version of Tabs for Word, Excel & Powerpoint is free for personal, non commercial use. A the link to the free Office Tab download:
http://www.extendoffice.com/download/office-tab-free-edition.html
Hope this helps!