So what was the deal with those Amazon Press Releases for the Harry Potter Magical Candy Contest For Children Ages 6 to 13, Toy Quest Toy Design Contest For Kids 12 And Under, and the Be a Poet Contest For All Kids 12 and Under
Presumably the company would require parental consent of some sort for underaged kids, right?
CD image of the latest versions of numerous high-quality OSS applications
There's also Cygwin, which is a sort of mini-distro for Windows complete with XFree and a few basic window managers (fwm and OpenBox among them). Great package manager, lots of mirrors and great quality overall. It sometimes beats booting into Debian =)
Note that you'll want to run it in NT4 or better (IMO), but it's a very nice introduction to UNIX-like environments, especially the X server support (since bash is not very flashy). It's actually quite neat to have a full screen X session running on top of the Windows desktop.
It also ships with the GNU toolchain so you can even write your own little aps (console, GTK or plain X).
It is not when you have a lot of money invested in your existing codebase. It may be more fun, but that doesn't make it right.
Try recompiling V6 C programs verbatim with a recent CC. Hint: it won't work.
With a few small changes I can recompile code written for VC++ 4.2 in VC++ 7.0 (.NET). VB6 imported and compiled VB5 projects with also just a few very minor changes.
Also, note that none of these languages was "killed" by moving to its next version.
In the context of VB, what I mean by "killed" is that they took an existing tool and gave it a completely different spin at the expense of users. Not everyone is writing internet enabled applications. Now this affects a lot of users, but not all of them. VB.NET will certainly be widely used. But there's a feeling among the VB crowd of a bit of backstabbing by Microsoft. They didn't release VB7, they went.NET. If you don't believe me, look through the DOTNET-L mailing list archives from late 2000 to early 2002. You'll see what I mean.
Personally, I don't really care - I use VC++ and VB and now whenever I do.NET it's C# all the way. But some people do make a big fuss about it, with reason.
Speaking for myself, as long as I can use my computer freely with whatever operating system I want and can accomplish what I want to accomplish, I'm perfectly happy with Microsoft enjoying 98% of the desktop market. OTOH, it's still enjoyable to poke fun at them (and their unsuspecting users:).
No most run MS Windows because it came on their computer.
True enough. Then there are those that use Windows by choice. Choice is important, right?
can't fix the inevitable problems that come with MS Windows
If you can suggest an alternative that involves Linux, I'm sure you'll make a lot of money. Until then however, computers will continue to be rather complex. But the less you're exposed to that complexity, the less technical you need to be. You can be technical and save the money, or you can spend the money. Choice.
His post was insightful and on topic. Your little Microsoft advertisement was not.
Boo-ho. So I guess I'm lucky you were not moderating back there, hmmm?
Quit your Linux bashing
Pot, kettle. All that.
Because they want high quality, innovative software and [...] regardless of which OS they are running at the moment.
Well duh. But I don't see how this is relevant to the benefits or lack thereof of the operating system. And BTW, you can also buy quality, innovative software. That's also choice.
And by the way, you are welcome to love Windows XP and hate UNIX.
How interesting. So you assume that anyone who finds Windows XP usable, interesting or fun to use must, by definition, hate all other operating systems?
If you want to be a zealot, that's all fine and dandy. But don't make the mistake of assuming everyone else is, too.
(Hint: my vote goes to the owner of "Replies: 22; Score:-1, Flamebait".)
You're mistaking a troll for a contributor who posts something that goes against the prevailing sheep mentality around here (i.e., something that most people don't like but is most probably true) - and is not afraid to back it up.
See, you assume that developers care one way or another whether or not open source "[carves] out a majority chunk of the desktop (or any) market". But, speaking for myself, I know I don't give a damn whether or not OSS succeeds in the marketplace.
I wonder how widespread this view is. Because if it is common, then all this "Micro$oft" bashing is quite pointless. I mean, why ascribe to evil what can be explained by apathy?
that's what came preinstalled on their shiny new computers and they don't know any better
You're not giving Joe User enough credit, I think. People are smart enough to know what kind of OS they want, the same way they know which car they want. But they don't make that decision based on the quality of the virtual memory manager or how many file systems are shipping with it this week.
Forced is definitely the right word for them
Then I suppose it's OK if I deliver bottled water in a GMC truck and moan about how I'd like to do it in a Ford truck instead. Maybe I should find another job. But going on and on about how incredibly crappy and inferior GMC trucks are just because I'd rather be driving a Ford is not exactly my definition of a hopeless dead end. You have a right to desire and even go out and buy your Ford gig. Just don't expect me to buy it for you and please don't call me a retard for driving a GMC.
"Windoze" was the more expressive choice
Fair enough. My view is that it's childish at best, but hey.
Maxpubic! Long time no see, ya big chunk of sad pathetic zealot! How's it going? Boy, I tell you, things have been slow around here since you last confirmed your status as Stallman's Wet Dream In The Flesh. Nobody comes close, Max. Nobody. I've missed you. No, really.
I admire your zealotry, but most people are not "forced" to use Windows. They use it because it works and it doesn't require three years of hacker training. They use it because they want a simple desktop OS that can run their games and let them surf the web, write letters or print invitations to their kid's birthday parties, balance their checkbooks and send email to grandma. Your perception of what a computer should be used for may differ, but in the real world that's how things work.
The OS itself also seems faster than Windows 2000. I'm running it on a PII/350 w/ 256 MB ram and it screams.
Yep. This was actually surprising to me - i thought it would be a bit slower on the same hardware than W2K server. But yes, it is faster (or maybe it's the fact that it's a newer box with less accumulated crud =)
Everything else is just icing on the cake, especially IIS 6.
swb has a bit of it. Certainly there are thousands of VFP apps out there running in small and large businesses that are hard to port and get rid of (VFP redefined, IMO, the term "spaghetti code", even more so than VB).
But there's also a bit of what makes some software (BeOS, Amiga, vim, etc.) grab and keep a smallish but loving group of users that are willing to fight for their [tool|OS|whatever] and hold on for dear life.
VFP is unique among MS products in that regard. VB had a faithful following, but it was always too big and too loud and too contaminated by weekend "programmers" to have an effect over the company. VFP folks - they're the Mujahedin of Microsoft users. Trust me, you don't want end up surrounded in a newsgroup by six angry VFP knights in shining armor with issues and a grudge. Talk about flame wars.
I mentioned those Usenet threads in my original post - I'll eat my crow now but back then I thought they were on crack for being so vocal about a tool that everyone else saw as dying (like BSD *grin*). Plus, the "inside word" from Microsoft at the time (~1997) was that VFP was indeed going to be killed. Haha - Not.
Wow. I'm impressed by this. VFP is like the elderly uncle that just won't die and vacate the den. The more Microsoft tries to kill it, the more momentum it gains.
The VFP user community is of course mostly responsible for this. Sites like UniversalThread have "kept the flame" going for many years, much to the chagrin of Certain People at MS that would very much like the thing to die and go away. This is the difference between VB (which got effectively killed with.NET) and VFP - the people who use it. They're a vociferous, dedicated and almost fanatical bunch. But they've gotten their way every single time.
I remember the endless threads back in the mid 90's on Usenet about how VFP was on the way out, to be replaced by VB and VC++. They're on their 8th version now, going strong. VB only got to 6, and MS never really solved its problems (VC++ is a different issue - it's actually used by Microsoft so they can't touch it). Guess who's laughing now.
What you actually mean is that you don't know what the expensive alternatives are. There's no shame in admitting you don't know something; try it some day.
Them's mighty big words coming from an AC. Too bad you couldn't muster the balls to log in.
I know most all of the alternatives, mainly because I've tried them at one time or another. My comment regarding CVS stands, though.
BTW, dismissing CVS and then recommending PVCS in the same sentence is the mark of a true ignorant retard asshole, as if the rest of your insightful comment didn't cut it.
First, VSS is a crap version control system (if only because it's not client/server), but it doesn't corrupt itself randomly. You need to keep your database sizes to under 1GB or so, run ANALYZE on the thing at least every week (or more, depending on the activity) and generally keep binaries (especially large ones) off of it. Just because the thing has a pretty GUI doesn't mean it also takes care of itself. And of course, backup your database(s) often.
Your Visual Studio integration requirement is a doozy. I haven't seen anything that works as well as VSS, but then again, another recommendation is to stay away from that anyway. Always use the Explorer or the command line tools.
Finally, the alternatives. Well, there's the Very Expensive ones which I won't list because you probably know them anyway and, well, they're hideoulsy expensive.
Then there's CVS. An el-cheapo box running Linux or BSD with decent HDD space, and WinCVS or TortoiseCVS can't be beat. I've successfully migrated some development teams to this setup (along with Bugzilla) and while there's a learning curve, it's certainly much better. Plus, developers can work from home seamlessly, which is generally not the case with VSS. There are lots of tools and help out there for CVS. Give it a try, you won't be disappointed. Plus, it's cheap!
Slashdot Mirror
Presumably the company would require parental consent of some sort for underaged kids, right?
This smells like a dirty run on Amazon, FWIW.
So all I need to do is download KDE, untar it and that's it? It works with Cygwin?
How do ya do that? =) A link would be much appreciated.
There's also Cygwin, which is a sort of mini-distro for Windows complete with XFree and a few basic window managers (fwm and OpenBox among them). Great package manager, lots of mirrors and great quality overall. It sometimes beats booting into Debian =)
Note that you'll want to run it in NT4 or better (IMO), but it's a very nice introduction to UNIX-like environments, especially the X server support (since bash is not very flashy). It's actually quite neat to have a full screen X session running on top of the Windows desktop.
It also ships with the GNU toolchain so you can even write your own little aps (console, GTK or plain X).
It is not when you have a lot of money invested in your existing codebase. It may be more fun, but that doesn't make it right.
Try recompiling V6 C programs verbatim with a recent CC. Hint: it won't work.
With a few small changes I can recompile code written for VC++ 4.2 in VC++ 7.0 (.NET). VB6 imported and compiled VB5 projects with also just a few very minor changes.
Also, note that none of these languages was "killed" by moving to its next version.
In the context of VB, what I mean by "killed" is that they took an existing tool and gave it a completely different spin at the expense of users. Not everyone is writing internet enabled applications. Now this affects a lot of users, but not all of them. VB.NET will certainly be widely used. But there's a feeling among the VB crowd of a bit of backstabbing by Microsoft. They didn't release VB7, they went .NET. If you don't believe me, look through the DOTNET-L mailing list archives from late 2000 to early 2002. You'll see what I mean.
Personally, I don't really care - I use VC++ and VB and now whenever I do .NET it's C# all the way. But some people do make a big fuss about it, with reason.
Hey, fair enough =)
True enough. Then there are those that use Windows by choice. Choice is important, right?
can't fix the inevitable problems that come with MS Windows
If you can suggest an alternative that involves Linux, I'm sure you'll make a lot of money. Until then however, computers will continue to be rather complex. But the less you're exposed to that complexity, the less technical you need to be. You can be technical and save the money, or you can spend the money. Choice.
His post was insightful and on topic. Your little Microsoft advertisement was not.
Boo-ho. So I guess I'm lucky you were not moderating back there, hmmm?
Quit your Linux bashing
Pot, kettle. All that.
Because they want high quality, innovative software and [...] regardless of which OS they are running at the moment.
Well duh. But I don't see how this is relevant to the benefits or lack thereof of the operating system. And BTW, you can also buy quality, innovative software. That's also choice.
accessible support
You must be kidding.
How interesting. So you assume that anyone who finds Windows XP usable, interesting or fun to use must, by definition, hate all other operating systems?
If you want to be a zealot, that's all fine and dandy. But don't make the mistake of assuming everyone else is, too.
Next!
You're mistaking a troll for a contributor who posts something that goes against the prevailing sheep mentality around here (i.e., something that most people don't like but is most probably true) - and is not afraid to back it up.
A troll is simply modded down and ignored.
I wonder how widespread this view is. Because if it is common, then all this "Micro$oft" bashing is quite pointless. I mean, why ascribe to evil what can be explained by apathy?
You're not giving Joe User enough credit, I think. People are smart enough to know what kind of OS they want, the same way they know which car they want. But they don't make that decision based on the quality of the virtual memory manager or how many file systems are shipping with it this week.
Forced is definitely the right word for them
Then I suppose it's OK if I deliver bottled water in a GMC truck and moan about how I'd like to do it in a Ford truck instead. Maybe I should find another job. But going on and on about how incredibly crappy and inferior GMC trucks are just because I'd rather be driving a Ford is not exactly my definition of a hopeless dead end. You have a right to desire and even go out and buy your Ford gig. Just don't expect me to buy it for you and please don't call me a retard for driving a GMC.
"Windoze" was the more expressive choice
Fair enough. My view is that it's childish at best, but hey.
Now do me a really big favor and FOAD, mmkay?
BTW, it's "Windows", not "Windoze".
It's all downhill from there.
Get ready for the troll mods, though. That's not the kind of truth that goes down well 'round here =)
Yep. This was actually surprising to me - i thought it would be a bit slower on the same hardware than W2K server. But yes, it is faster (or maybe it's the fact that it's a newer box with less accumulated crud =)
Everything else is just icing on the cake, especially IIS 6.
Here's a free clue: VB.NET != VB7. Let me know when you can port your code verbatim into VB.NET and we'll talk.
Right off the bat, you just fucked up your elegant flame. Feeling stupid already?
Even if that was true (it's not)
My, my. Did I get you all riled up because of this? Yes, they skipped versions. Big fucking deal.
total poser
Bwahahaha. I guess that must be true, since "SecretAsianMan" says so. "Poser", that's quite a word. You must be fresh out of high school.
Me. At you.
Well now, that hurts.
Actually, it was information on Kerberos
But there's also a bit of what makes some software (BeOS, Amiga, vim, etc.) grab and keep a smallish but loving group of users that are willing to fight for their [tool|OS|whatever] and hold on for dear life.
VFP is unique among MS products in that regard. VB had a faithful following, but it was always too big and too loud and too contaminated by weekend "programmers" to have an effect over the company. VFP folks - they're the Mujahedin of Microsoft users. Trust me, you don't want end up surrounded in a newsgroup by six angry VFP knights in shining armor with issues and a grudge. Talk about flame wars.
I mentioned those Usenet threads in my original post - I'll eat my crow now but back then I thought they were on crack for being so vocal about a tool that everyone else saw as dying (like BSD *grin*). Plus, the "inside word" from Microsoft at the time (~1997) was that VFP was indeed going to be killed. Haha - Not.
That's life, I guess.
*rimshot*
The VFP user community is of course mostly responsible for this. Sites like UniversalThread have "kept the flame" going for many years, much to the chagrin of Certain People at MS that would very much like the thing to die and go away. This is the difference between VB (which got effectively killed with .NET) and VFP - the people who use it. They're a vociferous, dedicated and almost fanatical bunch. But they've gotten their way every single time.
I remember the endless threads back in the mid 90's on Usenet about how VFP was on the way out, to be replaced by VB and VC++. They're on their 8th version now, going strong. VB only got to 6, and MS never really solved its problems (VC++ is a different issue - it's actually used by Microsoft so they can't touch it). Guess who's laughing now.
And I doubt this time things will go differently.
Thanks!
Them's mighty big words coming from an AC. Too bad you couldn't muster the balls to log in.
I know most all of the alternatives, mainly because I've tried them at one time or another. My comment regarding CVS stands, though.
BTW, dismissing CVS and then recommending PVCS in the same sentence is the mark of a true ignorant retard asshole, as if the rest of your insightful comment didn't cut it.
Your Visual Studio integration requirement is a doozy. I haven't seen anything that works as well as VSS, but then again, another recommendation is to stay away from that anyway. Always use the Explorer or the command line tools.
Finally, the alternatives. Well, there's the Very Expensive ones which I won't list because you probably know them anyway and, well, they're hideoulsy expensive.
Then there's CVS. An el-cheapo box running Linux or BSD with decent HDD space, and WinCVS or TortoiseCVS can't be beat. I've successfully migrated some development teams to this setup (along with Bugzilla) and while there's a learning curve, it's certainly much better. Plus, developers can work from home seamlessly, which is generally not the case with VSS. There are lots of tools and help out there for CVS. Give it a try, you won't be disappointed. Plus, it's cheap!