Hmm. Well, for what it's worth, they replaced the Treo 650 I lost with a brand new Treo 700p, no questions asked. Took three days, but my experience wasn't that awful.
Could I have done it with my homeowner's policy? Maybe. This was easier. YMMV.
"People won't care about the charity side of things and buy it wherever it's cheaper."
People do all kinds of things I don't happen to wish to do myself. So what?
"You cannot buy this product elsewhere without a huge markup, that's the underlying flaw of the project"
No, that's the EXPLICIT POINT of the project. If you want a cheap laptop, go somewhere else. If you believe in the goals of this project, buy one of these.
"$50 hard to turn down which is where this project falls down."
I don't understand what this sentence means. Would the recipient of the laptop be free to sell it? Sure. I'm sure not gonna put a gun to their head and make them learn. I'm also not going to bid on their auction.
"If They're going to charge $350 for this and for $50 you can get a system that's a whole generation more powerfull and will still no doubt run Linux."
Competition is good.
"The OLPC people don't seem to have researched just how many people would feel comfortable essentially giving away $100-$200 to charity."
Says you.
"This thing needs to sell in the high 100,000's in the west for the project to be successfull"
Why?
"They need to really look at the viability of the western side of things from a business perspective and I don't think they are."
Again, why? The Western audience (by which I assume you mean the "first world" audience) is irrelevant to the project's goals. The funding is going to happen, regardless of what happens in the retail sales. I (me this carbon unit) will be delighted to buy two and keep one. You can do whatever you want, for all values of "you".
"But isn't part of the equation the air resistance that the vehicle has to move through"
That's not accounted for in the simple statement of "The Rocket Equation", but you're absolutely right: Atmospheric drag is significant. Getting out of the atmosphere is a good idea, and that's why SpaceShip 2 and Pegasus and all those systems use an air-breathing carrier aircraft as a first stage.
That's not a bad idea, by any means, but it's not a panacea. (Few things are.) My off-the-cuff guess would be that a zeppelin-borne high altitude launch platform would make spacecraft integration a challenge. (Problem 1: How do you get the spacecraft to the platform?) Insoluble problem? Certainly not. But a non-trivial problem, certainly.
The progression you outline is, indeed, precisely what Blue Origin seems to be doing (along with all the other private firms) and they have produced more flying hardware than LMCO did with VentureStar. Heck, Blue Origin is not too terribly far from where DC-X was, and that's quite an accomplishment.
So, yeah, I'm optimistic. I'm certainly willing to proceed from the assumption that these folks have done a better design study than my back-of-the-napkin one, and they've got what they think to be a good solution. I can't wait to see it.
The bottom line is, altitude doesn't really matter that much. The "kinetic energy" you mention is the killer. There is a big, big difference between a sub-orbital shot to a certain altitude, and orbiting at that altitude. All the notions about flying launch platforms only address the altitude problem, not the kinetic energy one.
Rocket science is kinda funny. It's governed by a fairly straightforward set of equations, and until there's some sort of radical change in the way we accelerate reaction mass, those equations select for a certain sort of solution. SSTO is a tough problem to solve, and vertical landing makes it even tougher.
Apparently, some really smart people think it will work. I'm a bit of a doubting Thomas, but I'm eager to be proved too pessimistic. I'm still grouchy that VentureStar got canned, because that's a real spaceship! : )
"The problem is that the extra weight needed to carry the wings for the two spacecraft you mention"
I guarantee that wings weigh less than the fuel required to do a Flash Gordon style powered descent. When you're landing in an atmosphere, using atmospheric effects to slow your flight is free pie. Using fuel is very, very, very expensive pie.
I'm sure that the guys who are actually doing this (as opposed to my not-completely-uninformed speculation) have some cleverness up their sleeve. I look forward to seeing it.
My estimate is that a capsule-like craft with an inflatable wing would be a very efficient way to go. Any design has drawbacks, and all missions are different, but you'd have to have something very particular in mind to go with a single-stage vertical landing scheme.
"but I also suspect that it can be tricky to properly and safely load a parachute of that size."
It may be tricky, but the math of carrying all that propellant with you is pretty darn inflexible. I've done that math, and I don't know how Blue Origin (and/or Rotary Rocket and/or Armadillo) plans on making it work.
"what makes people think all the answers are going to be what we are used to?"
Dunno. What makes you think that the people who are thinking about this problem think all the answers are going to be what you think some people are used to?
You're going to need to run that by me again. A two-stage, single stage to orbit rocket? Pretty sure that you've run into a little glitch in your acronym parser there, buddy.
So, basically, you're proceeding from the assumption that this will be the first generation of children to always do only what their teacher tells them.
Would you please explain your rationale? I think that's a pretty shaky idea.
"at some point we're going to see these on ebay, and we'll think, gee, I hope this wasn't one of the ones Pakistan bought to give some kid a future."
Did you understand the part where that's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what will happen? If you buy a laptop from the project (which will apparently broker their sales through eBay), you get one laptop, and you fund one to go to a kid who needs one.
I'm trying really hard to find a problem here, and I can't do it.
The article said that the screen buffer is driven by a separate subsystem. My wild, unsubstantiated guess is that they've thought of the problem you describe, and have solved it, seeing as how anybody using the thing would literally notice said problem in two seconds.
"Educators should encourage kids to read, but not consider it a panacea. They should instead try to develop the full potential of the kid through alternate paths which might be more appropriate for him."
Well, of course. Having said that, the chances of being successful because you're smart and literate are much higher than your chances of being successful if you're a good football player. Or ballerina. Or whatever.
I'd never for a moment suggest this system is a panacea. However, it's easy for me to imagine it being re-purposed by clever young people to do amazing things. I really want to see what they come up with.
"other technology sold them by the west, namely GUNS."
Um, hate to rain on your ideological parade, but the AK-47 is not a western-made firearm. I imagine you'll see rather a lot of them in these troubled regions.
Never mind that, though. Much more important to demonize the West than to actually try to, you know, educate people.
"This OLPC is just a cunning way of indirectly making money"
Gosh, let's put a stop to that right away. If people could make money, well, who KNOWS what they'd get up to next? They might want to, like, found liberal governments or something!
"as a rule kids don't like to read in this country"
Do you suppose that might be a good thing to address? I'm convinced that the reason I am successful today is because I'm a voracious reader. I'm also successful because I learned how to work computers in order to improve my Wing Commander gaming experience. It seems like the xo could indeed scratch both itches.
My bad. Got my meaningless telco acronyms confused. You are indeed correct...my Treo 700p is EVDO.
It's more than adequate for "Need data, no wifi, yay bluetooth!" phone-as-modem occasions, and some on-the-phone surfing. Replace my cable modem? Heck no. Fast enough to be useful? You bet. Definitely a lot better than my Treo 650's connection.
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Hmm. Well, for what it's worth, they replaced the Treo 650 I lost with a brand new Treo 700p, no questions asked. Took three days, but my experience wasn't that awful.
Could I have done it with my homeowner's policy? Maybe. This was easier. YMMV.
"People won't care about the charity side of things and buy it wherever it's cheaper."
People do all kinds of things I don't happen to wish to do myself. So what?
"You cannot buy this product elsewhere without a huge markup, that's the underlying flaw of the project"
No, that's the EXPLICIT POINT of the project. If you want a cheap laptop, go somewhere else. If you believe in the goals of this project, buy one of these.
"$50 hard to turn down which is where this project falls down."
I don't understand what this sentence means. Would the recipient of the laptop be free to sell it? Sure. I'm sure not gonna put a gun to their head and make them learn. I'm also not going to bid on their auction.
"If They're going to charge $350 for this and for $50 you can get a system that's a whole generation more powerfull and will still no doubt run Linux."
Competition is good.
"The OLPC people don't seem to have researched just how many people would feel comfortable essentially giving away $100-$200 to charity."
Says you.
"This thing needs to sell in the high 100,000's in the west for the project to be successfull"
Why?
"They need to really look at the viability of the western side of things from a business perspective and I don't think they are."
Again, why? The Western audience (by which I assume you mean the "first world" audience) is irrelevant to the project's goals. The funding is going to happen, regardless of what happens in the retail sales. I (me this carbon unit) will be delighted to buy two and keep one. You can do whatever you want, for all values of "you".
"But isn't part of the equation the air resistance that the vehicle has to move through"
That's not accounted for in the simple statement of "The Rocket Equation", but you're absolutely right: Atmospheric drag is significant. Getting out of the atmosphere is a good idea, and that's why SpaceShip 2 and Pegasus and all those systems use an air-breathing carrier aircraft as a first stage.
That's not a bad idea, by any means, but it's not a panacea. (Few things are.) My off-the-cuff guess would be that a zeppelin-borne high altitude launch platform would make spacecraft integration a challenge. (Problem 1: How do you get the spacecraft to the platform?) Insoluble problem? Certainly not. But a non-trivial problem, certainly.
The progression you outline is, indeed, precisely what Blue Origin seems to be doing (along with all the other private firms) and they have produced more flying hardware than LMCO did with VentureStar. Heck, Blue Origin is not too terribly far from where DC-X was, and that's quite an accomplishment.
So, yeah, I'm optimistic. I'm certainly willing to proceed from the assumption that these folks have done a better design study than my back-of-the-napkin one, and they've got what they think to be a good solution. I can't wait to see it.
The bottom line is, altitude doesn't really matter that much. The "kinetic energy" you mention is the killer. There is a big, big difference between a sub-orbital shot to a certain altitude, and orbiting at that altitude. All the notions about flying launch platforms only address the altitude problem, not the kinetic energy one.
Rocket science is kinda funny. It's governed by a fairly straightforward set of equations, and until there's some sort of radical change in the way we accelerate reaction mass, those equations select for a certain sort of solution. SSTO is a tough problem to solve, and vertical landing makes it even tougher.
Apparently, some really smart people think it will work. I'm a bit of a doubting Thomas, but I'm eager to be proved too pessimistic. I'm still grouchy that VentureStar got canned, because that's a real spaceship! : )
Now you're talkin'. : )
"The problem is that the extra weight needed to carry the wings for the two spacecraft you mention"
I guarantee that wings weigh less than the fuel required to do a Flash Gordon style powered descent. When you're landing in an atmosphere, using atmospheric effects to slow your flight is free pie. Using fuel is very, very, very expensive pie.
I'm sure that the guys who are actually doing this (as opposed to my not-completely-uninformed speculation) have some cleverness up their sleeve. I look forward to seeing it.
My estimate is that a capsule-like craft with an inflatable wing would be a very efficient way to go. Any design has drawbacks, and all missions are different, but you'd have to have something very particular in mind to go with a single-stage vertical landing scheme.
"but I also suspect that it can be tricky to properly and safely load a parachute of that size."
It may be tricky, but the math of carrying all that propellant with you is pretty darn inflexible. I've done that math, and I don't know how Blue Origin (and/or Rotary Rocket and/or Armadillo) plans on making it work.
I'm very, very eager to find out. : )
"what makes people think all the answers are going to be what we are used to?"
Dunno. What makes you think that the people who are thinking about this problem think all the answers are going to be what you think some people are used to?
"two-stage SSTO"
You're going to need to run that by me again. A two-stage, single stage to orbit rocket? Pretty sure that you've run into a little glitch in your acronym parser there, buddy.
"Yes, but what if I don't care about funding one for some kid somewhere."
Then please feel free to go buy a different laptop. This is a charitable enterprise. If you do not wish to be charitable, don't participate.
So, basically, you're proceeding from the assumption that this will be the first generation of children to always do only what their teacher tells them.
Would you please explain your rationale? I think that's a pretty shaky idea.
"at some point we're going to see these on ebay, and we'll think, gee, I hope this wasn't one of the ones Pakistan bought to give some kid a future."
Did you understand the part where that's the EXACT OPPOSITE of what will happen? If you buy a laptop from the project (which will apparently broker their sales through eBay), you get one laptop, and you fund one to go to a kid who needs one.
I'm trying really hard to find a problem here, and I can't do it.
"Where did you get that idea?"
Um, from the title of the "project", which is "Month Of Apple Bugs". Golly, how could I possibly have been mislead?
"Top Arms Exporters: United States, Russia, China"
Two of which are conspicuously not "the West".
The article said that the screen buffer is driven by a separate subsystem. My wild, unsubstantiated guess is that they've thought of the problem you describe, and have solved it, seeing as how anybody using the thing would literally notice said problem in two seconds.
Hmm. Most insects don't seem to care too much about NutraSweet, and diet soda is the preferred working fluid.
"Educators should encourage kids to read, but not consider it a panacea. They should instead try to develop the full potential of the kid through alternate paths which might be more appropriate for him."
Well, of course. Having said that, the chances of being successful because you're smart and literate are much higher than your chances of being successful if you're a good football player. Or ballerina. Or whatever.
I'd never for a moment suggest this system is a panacea. However, it's easy for me to imagine it being re-purposed by clever young people to do amazing things. I really want to see what they come up with.
Sure! And we wouldn't even need flashlights when we get there!
"other technology sold them by the west, namely GUNS."
Um, hate to rain on your ideological parade, but the AK-47 is not a western-made firearm. I imagine you'll see rather a lot of them in these troubled regions.
Never mind that, though. Much more important to demonize the West than to actually try to, you know, educate people.
"This OLPC is just a cunning way of indirectly making money"
Gosh, let's put a stop to that right away. If people could make money, well, who KNOWS what they'd get up to next? They might want to, like, found liberal governments or something!
So, after you exclude three large free repositories of literature and knowledge, there aren't very many free repositories? Well, OK. I guess.
The solution to the problem is not to complain, it is to find a classic that meant something to you as a child and transcribe it.
"as a rule kids don't like to read in this country"
Do you suppose that might be a good thing to address? I'm convinced that the reason I am successful today is because I'm a voracious reader. I'm also successful because I learned how to work computers in order to improve my Wing Commander gaming experience. It seems like the xo could indeed scratch both itches.
I would be delighted to buy three, and keep one of them. I think this is a very cool project, and I look forward to giving them money.
"I'm just saying that it still falls far short of even just the academic part of college"
It also costs less than $30,000 per year. What the hell do you want?
My bad. Got my meaningless telco acronyms confused. You are indeed correct...my Treo 700p is EVDO.
It's more than adequate for "Need data, no wifi, yay bluetooth!" phone-as-modem occasions, and some on-the-phone surfing. Replace my cable modem? Heck no. Fast enough to be useful? You bet. Definitely a lot better than my Treo 650's connection.