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iPhone, Apple TV Headline MacWorld Keynote
Steve Jobs kept his audience rapt at the MacWorld keynote today. He rehashed the announcement of the iTV, now called Apple TV, and announced the iPhone, a revolutionary phone/ipod/wrist-computer that had MacWorld attendees sitting on the edge of their seats. Retailing for $499 (4 gig)/$599 (8 gig), it has to be seen to be believed. It uses a touch screen with a new form of input control, runs OSX and many standard applications, and connects to the internet via WiFi. It has a camera, functions as a movie player, a music player, and can send emails and photos in the middle of a phone call. From the Engadget coverage: "'[OSX] let us create desktop class applications and networking, not the crippled stuff you find on most phones, these are real desktop applications.' He's quoting Alan Kay - 'People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.' 'So we're bringing breakthrough software to a mobile device for the first time.'" Seriously, go check this out. They're going to print money with this thing.
If it'll be available in June in USA and 2008 in Asia, when will be available in Brazil? :-( I want that one !!
ilex paraguariensis for all
Looks like we won't be getting it until the end of the year - but hopefully that will mean 3G instead of EDGE for those of us in the UK! I don't know if my Treo is going to last that long...
Too bad I have to wait until summer to get one though.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm going to have to buy two of these things (one for my wife as well). Can't believe I have to wait until June!
ZFS: because love is never having to say fsck
Oh man, I was totally with them up until the prices. I was preparing to pull out my credit card and spend an extra few months in debt. But... $500 for a 4gig and $600 for an 8gig? My MP3 collection is 13gigs. I'd have to shell out $500 and I'd *still* have to carry around my iPod. Oh, and also, I'd probably also have to switch from T-Mobile to Cingular.
I'll wait for the next iteration.
Thank god I don't own stock in phone companies right now.
Be better in bed. Wikiafterdark!
I saw this on CNN hours ago. Just sayin...
Just announced, Microsoft confirms the Plume. It's a phone that's 3 ½ inches thick, runs the full- blown windows vista, plays the new we-promise-it-will-always-play DRM'd music and has 9600 baud dial up modem, and has the ability to take and print pictures with optional ink and paper tray attachment. Welcome to the social, now where is everyone.
I've been waiting for that all day.....
[an error occurred while processing this sig]
where this baby goes will be mine
"NewtonberrySP"
When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
I seriously put off upgrading my crappy mobile phone based off these rumors and since it's not going to be available until June, I guess I'll have to suffer with the piece of junk for another 6 months. I can't wait.
I wish my lawn was emo, so it would cut itself.
but seriously, doesn't that phone look like it could rock the world? I can't wait to see it in the metal!
$499 (4 gig) $599 (8 gig) with a 2 year plan is a lot and Cingular forces you get a smart phone data contract plan with a smart phone to get the 2 year deal price.
It is $ 40 just for the data.
So like you will $60 + month $40 for data $20 + for voice.
I hope they move that screen onto the larger iPods. I don't really need a new phone, and it won't hold enough for me at 8 gig anyway--but put that high-res screen on an iPod video and I'd pay the $599 in a heartbeat. My only disappointment is that for all the hardware and software advances this thing provides, it's still locked into the carriers 'two-year contract' business model.
CE-What?
"And in other news, flights from Las Vegas to San Francisco immediately sold out today..."
OK, where do I have to go to stand in line?
John
I was drooling during the presentation - I could even stomach the price tag, but not with a provider (Cingular) who charges like $60/month plus taxes for unlimited data. This is a DATA device. Yes it's a phone, but all of the live data eye-candy is worthless if it only works within 40 feet of your house or local WAP. The $500 or $600 is only the beginning, you're going to pay FAR out the ass over the life of this phone.
Thats $599 WITH a 2 year Cingular contract.
ARG thats insane. Probably $899 by itself if even available.
No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
CNBC is reporting that apple was in negotiations with CISCO over the name into last night. They're supposed to sign all the paper work today, but its still unclear who will own it and how much apple will pay.
Be better in bed. Wikiafterdark!
Any word on battery life on this thing?
I'm not really an Apple geek but that's some really insane hardware for the form factor. The price is hefty, but I'm impressed they packed in what they could to something that slim. It's going to be a hacker's wet dream.
:)
A few small thoughts:
1.) No 3G. Wi-fi, Bluetooth, etc. are nice though.
2.) They push it as an internet device, with messaging/email/etc. but lack of a physical keyboard? I don't know. I mean, I know and you know we'll love it regardless, but will this really sway the Blackberry junkies?
3.) What is this thing really running? "OS X"? FreeBSD -- they mean that? I'd be curious also what the chips are (no way in hell is PortalPlayer powering graphics like this).
Very cool device. Should be impossible to find, but I'll get one anyway.
but: $599 + a two year contract, and Cingular is currently the only service provider? It's otherwise pretty cool... but maybe I should wait until the 2nd generation, and when there's other carriers + no contract necessary?
Finally it has wireless and more space than a nomad! Truly unlame;)
(For those of you not in on the joke)
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
Yeah, it's only a "wrist computer" in the sense that some people's wrists have been getting a workout when they think about owning one.
From practicing their touch screen motions, of course. (Cough.)
Sadly no. The Keynote focused on the Apple TV and th iPhone.
but nice to see a phone/tablet/pda that *seems* to embedded a full OS..... and for the iPhone name, let's just call it the NuTon
I am not sure if the price of the iPhone was mentioned during the Keynote.
At 499/- it will have to be subsidized heavily by the carrier before it will get widely adopted.
And whats with the "pay me $100 and I will give you 4 Gigs extra"? Isnt it better to wave a few more carrots along with that $599 pricetag so that people would want to line up?
Rapid Nirvana
Ballmer is all out of chairs.
I for one welcome our new iMasters.
Well, the iPhone is an impressive looking device. I only have a few serious concerns with it:
1. Cingular is the only US provider? I'm not a Cingular subscriber nor will I become one. That's disappointing, seriously.
2. So far, the device is priced quite high for a two year contract signing. Those prices should be what the device costs without a contract.
3. I love the idea of the touch screen with the proximity sensors to turn it on and off (the biggest complaint I have with touchscreen phones is your ear touching buttons while you're talking) but I don't know how well I will be able to type on it. I use my mobile device constantly for e-mail, IM, taking notes, and browsing. Tactile is something I have grown used to (touch typing). How will I handle no buttons?
I love the idea of location aware applications, I just wonder how/where that data is stored. Is it just used locally or will Google and Apple, Inc. now know everything about where I go as well?
Overall a great idea with a bad choice of mobile providers.
Apple has choosen not to unveil Leopard until after Vista ships (June-ish). They don't want MS running their photocopiers this time. Any new Apple computers will probably wait until then.
Cingular exclusive. That sucks. The announced prices are with a 2yr contract as well. Other then not switching my service just for a phone merged with a iPod, the device could have been made so much better as the return of the Newton. I was hoping for a smart phone that would work with almost any service, sync to my MacBook and could act as a bluetooth modem.
Only interesting thing to wait for now is a release date for Leopard.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
This raises some important questions, such as what the hell I'm going to do about that year I have remaining on my current Cingular contract. Stupid Razr.
The biggest trouble Apple's going to have is getting this into the hands of people who want it but are locked into other contracts where they got free phones. If they were really smart, they'll have strong-armed Cingular into not marking the phones up very much for their existing customers.
Stupid Razr.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Not mentioned in the article Apple Computer, inc. has changed it's name to Apple, inc. Just a tidbit I thought I would mention.
Got a problem? Call a monkey!
Finally, a phone with a usable UI. Steve was right to refer to the 1984 introduction of the Mac. The iPhone looks to be just as much of a quantum leap.
Seriously, why couldn't this have been network-independent? Surely they don't expect Apple folk to lemming-like move to Cingular?
Go somewhere random
... but they did indeed hit the ball out of the park on this one. This has everything I hoped for and more. 160ppi screen is fantastic. The only bummers are battery life, price, and Cingular lock-in, but all of those things may change.
Big question is whether the phone will run 3rd party software, since developers could make a lot of money off this.
I'm not wrong. You haven't thought about it hard enough.
The spec sheet actually reads like a collection of the more optimistic rumours. Multi-touch, 160dpi screen? Mobile OS X? It looks like Cingular have got Apple into a more restrictive partnership though (iPhone is Cingular exclusive in the US), probably after the Motorola debacle.
Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped. Calvin Coolidge
-b.
They're going to print money with this thing.
Not at that price tag, they're not. That's with a two year agreement with Cingular. That's way, way beyond most peoples' price points, and with "only" 4 or 8 gigs of storage, it's roughly useless for the people who WOULD use it.
It's a hybrid bastardization of several products that turned out to be a poor idea.
There should have been a touch screen iPod announced as well, for those of us who have other, more sane cell providers.
Ungh... I have moral reservations about having Cingular (who is owned by ATT now) as my cell phone provider. Mostly because of the NSA wiretapping implications, but also due to horrid service they gave my friend of an ex one time.
Although... Does anyone else here have good things to say about Cingular? SprintPCS is so so in coverage, but their service is ok for me. Verizon has better service in general, but I tend to not like their phones.
So... Eh? Its cool, but I'm just leery of the cell phone company themselves and not Apple. Could we switch out SIM cards?
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
NEW YORK (Dow Jones)-- Cisco Systems Inc. (CSCO) may have beaten Apple Computer Inc. (AAPL) to the iPhone name, but it seems Apple will gain the rights to the trademark, after all. Apple's chief executive, Steve Jobs, announced earlier Tuesday that the company's long-anticipated phone product will be called iPhone. The name is familiar to those who remember that Cisco unveiled a line of Internet-based phone devices called iPhone just last month. Cisco said it has been in talks with Apple about the trademark and expects a signed agreement later Tuesday.
And the new Mac Pro's? Not sexy enough?
That's the same link the article has.
Did you try clicking on the link before posting this?
Since this new device runs OSX, it's a great time for those of us with Mac development experience. A whole new (and huge) market for our products.
Likewise, there's a new incentive for Windows-only applications to get ported to OSX so they can run on the iPhone.
Personally, I think that the term "revolutionary" gets used way too much. But in the case of the iPhone, it seems appropriate.
-ch
I'm not a big fan of apple products. With that caveat I'd say the following:
Apple TV: 720p? meh. I don't think this is going to do too well.
iPhone: Ok. You've got me. This one looks f***ing AWESOME. I'd worry about that screen getting all scratched up, but I'm reasonably gentle with my gadgetry. Just give me an unlocked one. If these turn out to be half as good as they look then they've got my smartphone beat for sure!
--
http://vancouvercondo.info
-
That's not the reason. Vista has already been released to manufacturing, and there certainly would not be any significant changes between now and consumer availability (real soon now).
Throw the bums out!
Also the keypad seems cool, but in my experience touch screens are flunky, you can't tell which button you are on my feel, you get fingerprints on them which makes them harder to read, and finally even in direct sun light, even the best anti-glare screens are hard to read in direct sun light. I'll wait for until they improve it a lot. Finally 4-8GB is a little small to hold both music and video.
My oldest dream. A real ebook reader.
Even if we get a simple text file display app, the ebook is finally here.
Now they have a BIG "Houston, we have a problem" . Nothing less.
Based on previous experience (Mac OS: 1984, Windows 95: 1995), MS won't match the 2007 iPhone until 2018.
Cue "Less space than a nomad. Lame." jokes.... in
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just go to the nearest "popular" shopping fair -- Shopping Oiapoque in Belo Horizonte or the 25 de Março street in São Paulo... :-)
Seriously, my jaw is wide open with this thing also.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
I think this is in line with the name change they announced as well. No longer "Apple Computer Inc." Now just "Apple Inc"....
Monstar L
Did anyone notice all the Beatles songs displayed during the keynote? That, and the name change to Apple inc., suggest to me that they came to an agreement with Apple records on the long-standing name and distribution issues.
Aw..come on..
A 40 Gig HD can hold roughly around 10 hours worth of 1080i.
Thats sparse. I hope they come up with something better later, especially when HD prices are still falling.
Or someone figures out how to swipe it out with a store bought IDE.
Rapid Nirvana
They should make a version with a hard drive and drop the cell phone functionality and they
would have a more accessible product for a lot of people.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
As usual release dates for the USA, Europe, Japan, etc... but nothing about Canada. We're right north of you, Apple! Same land mass!
Umm, Vista has gone RTM already... Care to cite a source for your claims about the Leopard release date?
"The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine" -Abraham Lincoln
Well, they did drop 'computer' from their name.
Im not much of a phoneY (har har) but since its GSM it can in theory be unlocked to use on any carrier right?
---------
No matter how thin you slice it, its still baloney.
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Assuming WiFi connectivity becomes widespread, I can see Google Maps printing money with this thing too. (If there's no WiFi available, but a cellular tower is within range, Cingular might be able to print money for the data shuffled back and forth while running an application like Google Maps.)
Biggest loser might be GPS device makers: Why spend $500 for a portable GPS unit when you can have the same thing (and get the "killer app" of Google-searchable maps, plus the nice bonus of satellite imagery, which can't be done on a portable GPS unit) in your phone for the same price?
I can also see a nice automotive aftermarket opportunity here. One of these things mounted on the dash, or in an aftermarket console/tray, would be an ergonomic (read: safer) way to do aftermarket GPS.
This will definitely make me switch back. I 3 the accelerometer, so it knows if its in landscape or portrait and draws the menu appropriately. This was a big missing feature on the Zune, IMHO.
Dude, I think I can see my house from here.
How cool is this...
Sony and SonyEricsson are shitting their pants right now.
kvp.com
So can we write apps to run on the phone/ipod, or target the Apple TV? It'd be way cool to write some apps that are running on the phone and can actually get at the GPS data, instead of just using the Apple/Google/Yahoo provided software and pages.
In the same vein, can anyone do anything with the Apple TV? Steve didn't talk about any TiVo-like capabilities, so I guess we're stuck recording and streaming from a Mac somewhere else in house. But can we stick a USB capture device on the AppleTV (what are the USB ports for anyway) and record direct on the device?
I would seriously ditch my Q and verizon if only this thing had 3G. If they're targeting smartphone users, how are they going to convince them to switch to a questionably inferior network with definitely slower network speeds?
Of all killer devices out there, this would be amazing with 3G.
Hopefully the 2008 Asia launch means an US 2008 CDMA/3G launch
Also the if its the visual voicemail thats really keeping it on the cingular network, I'd rather they ditch it. How often do you get so many voicemails that you don't know what to do with them. Usually I have 1 voicemail maybe two at the most in queue at a time.
This is a great device that I would love to get, but i'm sorry they killed the deal with the provider.
You might also notice the iphone doesn't ship until June. Sounds like the iPhone will run Leopard.
Seems that everybody is missing that the prices (500$ for 4GB, 600$ for 8GB one) are not true retail prices. You have to sign for 2 year subscription with cell phone operator and it's not available for next half of a year. iPhone looks really good but as always with Apple products it's a bit overpriced (I can't wait to see what Europe-tax will be this time...). Sony is already making similar phones (4GB walkman phone) and ones with big touchscreen (m600i), it's a matter of time until other companies will come up with something similar and cheaper. Apple has also a disadvantage of not using a common smartphone OS.
Not anounced in the keynote, but Apple is shipping a mini/tv form-factor 802.11n hub. Appletv will have 802.11n.
I didn't see anything on CNBC's web site, but CNET says that heard it directly from Cisco.
10:32--Cisco calls CNET News.com reporter with a statement about Apple's use of the term "iPhone" for its new product. "Given Apple's numerous requests for permission to use Cisco's iPhone trademark over the past several years and our extensive discussions with them recently, it is our belief that with their announcement today, Apple intends to agree to the final document and public statements that were distributed to them last night and that address a few remaining items we expect to receive a signed agreement today."
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
So it isn't even a phone, exactly. It's a PDA.
Newton, you have come back to us!
Can you record audio to the iPhone thingy's hard drive?
Oct 23, 2001: "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."
Jan 9, 2007: "Seriously, go check this out. They're going to print money with this thing."
The $499 price IS heavily subsidized by the carrier - that's the 2-year contract price. Don't expect it to come down before 2008+.
Death and danger are my various breads and various butters.
Don't think anyone's asked this, but how is Cisco going to react to Apple naming their phone iPhone?
Lawsuit?
That can't be right, can it?
Also, I'm interested in this 2 year Cingular plan you need to get. I wonder how hard it would be to unlock the phone for travel overseas and/or using domestic (USA) T-Mobile? Will non-USA phones be locked to their provider? It may make more sense/be cheaper to buy this at a higher initial price and not be locked to Cingular. (I understand some features like the non-linear message recovery may be dependent on the carrier, but it may be worth it).
So I wonder-- is 5 hours of battery time (which is probably a "best case" estimate) practical, and will I be able to use this w/any SIM card when traveling...
W
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Tech specs
If you look closely at the photos on the linked article, you'll notice that next to the signal strength indicator in the upper-left hand corner appears "Cingular." The keynote wrap-up says that this phone will only be available to Cingular customers (at least in the US):
So, I guess I won't be able to get one. I suppose I could go into a rant about how stupid it is that, in the US at least, cellphones are so strongly tied to individual providers. The cellphone I currently own is also tied to my provider. As in, the physical hardware can't be modified to work with any other provider. It uses some proprietary protocol, and can only have the number changed by the provider directly.
In any case, it looks like if you're not a Cingular customer, you won't be able to get an iPhone.
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
Are they using flash memory or a hard drive? Its hot, its expensive, its probably something I'll never own. Wait 4 years for microsofts answer! the pune!
http://www.apple.com/iphone/
$499 is the price with a 2-year contract from Cingular.
RTFA.
iPhone : You had me up until the "locked into Cingular" bit. Sorry.. deal breaker. Other phone companies will have comparable technology faster than MS can photocopy OSX features.
iTV : You're late to the party, and showing up in last years dress (720p)
I'm a fiscal conservative, it's a pity we don't have a political party anymore
Jobs: "A lot of these phones have low battery life. We've managed to get 5 hours of battery of talk time, video, and browsing. 16 hours of audio playback." Anyone know if it's a removable battery?
BlueRayMan
If Steve is right about capturing 1 % of the cell phone market, then Apple just printed an estimated $ 5.5 Billion in revenue.
After seeing the demo, I think Apple can expect sales to be much higher than expected - the iPhone is an
cell phone, PDA, iPod, portable computer, camera, video player, plus a lot more all in one slim, slick device.
The only down side?
You have to wait until June 2007 to get one in your hand.
I guess when the Apple store opens up you can pre order one,
the store is going to be busy...
was that a Zune-brown turtleneck Steve was wearing?
Cingular, and 2 year contract, pfft, oh well, lost a customer.
The phone is amazing. I was at the edge of my seat throughout the whole thing. Until they released the price.. $499 with a 2year service agreement? And only Cingular? Sigh.
Most folks have 2 year contracts and at any given time half of them are less than 1 year in. Additionally bussinesses may have other sorts of contracts that employees must follow. Hence there's inertia in the system. Rich folks might take the bullet and eat the contract penalites on their current phone--after all if you're paying $600 for the phone plus paying a premium for the high level services like "visula voice messageing", and you probably have a wi-fi hotspot contract too, you're not going to care that much about a penalty price of a contract to get out of.
The rest of us won't or cant' switch (cingular is not so good in rural areas). So cingular for a few years then they let in the other players, the price drops and we unwashed get ours after all the bugs are worked out.
Some other thoughts
1) The use of WiFi and the ability to have ringtones and pictures that don't cost you 2 bucks a pop from the phone company is a daring move for Cingular. WiFi means that these can be Skype phones too. So Cingular has a window of opportunity before WiFi and wimax becom ubquitous to get these folks as loyal customers while they develope some sort of way to make people pay for wifi voip.
2) Second, this is actually great news for microsoft, palm, and everyone except balckberry. Since the iphone is cingular only there's going to be huge demand for this level of phonage tech for all the other phone services. They have to get these from some body. With apple having signed an exclusive deal with cingular the other 99% of the market will be crying out. The next generation Zune will likely look a lot like this plus it will propbably have a built in Wii controller for xbox
3) And speaking of Wii, The apple phone has built in blue tooth and accelerometers, plus all sorts of gripping hand input modes. I wonder if it can do absolute positioning in space--maybe with that camera on the back. if so then this woul dbe an awesome game controller. rig this the the iTV (not the wii) and apple is set. Now the price looks even cheaper since you already have the home computer--if it can do the wiii thing too well bite me. Of course you'll need a couple input devices..
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
But it looks pretty cool. Has three LAN ports, which is cool, and the USB supports hard disks. Wonder how this will work.
Will we see any speed increase with out 802.11g airport cards? I wonder how this will work with the express? I suppose this is mostly useful for the new tv device, which I won't need because I watch everything on my computer anyway.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
This thing makes my Nokia E61 look pretty sad. And I just got it.
That being said, Apple really missed an opportunity here - they should have ONLY sold it unlocked, or at least as an MVNO, and done an end-around the telcos. Cingular? Nope, won't put a dime in their pocket, no matter how good the phone is. The Cingular thing is such a hurdle that it remains to be seen if Apple will really ship 10mm of these, like their target. They definitely would have if they were the MVNO supporting this.
It also remains to be seen just how capable the device is, what CPU it is running (probably ARM, but who knows?), an how "hackable" it is. Will it require signed apps like Nokia's S60v3? Let's hope not.
Nonetheless, Nokia, Blackberry, Microsoft, Palm - they're all staining their drawers right now, and whipping their engineers. All of their offerings look pretty sad now.
jh
If slashdot hates it, this thing is going to be successful. I remember the ipod was also coldly received around here. The ipod demonstrated the huge disconnect between "expert" slashdot users and your everyday consumer. In short, slashdotters severely undervalue ease of use.
Price point looks very familiar. Why is the PS3 dumped on for $599 price point while this is praised as a second coming? Where did Sony mess up?
First of all, I already have an iTV, it's called an XBox 360. Secondly where is Cisco in all of this iPhone stuff? I am very disappointed that the only people who apparently get to play with a wide screen iPod are those who are frivolous enough to spend $600 on a cellphone from a crappy service provider. I am truly disappointed with todays keynote. Stevie... you have let me down.
http://www.denialofreality.com/
hmmm, Looks good, BUT.. I could care less about the 3G data side. If I can get basic phone service, and check my e-mail, browse the web, and use ichat (including jabber) using the built in wi-fi,
i'll but one.
Just IMd with my wife about it. We'd get it, except content providers are intentionally not putting up their best shows for sale (except for Mythbusters on Discovery Channel... which isn't worth $2 an episode to me).
This is a problem, because my wife won't get a $299 if the shows she wants aren't going to go on sale, and I want to drop Comcast like a rock ($60 a month for cable... and rising every year). Will content providers be able to bypass cable and the dish if Apple TV takes off? We'll see in a year.
-Rob
Biblical fiscal responsibility
SteveJ didn't mention it in the keynote, but Apple introduced a new version of the Airport Extreme also
;)
http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/
Haha, the captcha is "future"
I'm sorry. I know it must be rough for you right now. We're all here for you.
Um, no. Leopard is still on schedule to ship in 1Q2007, as has been stated numerous times by Apple, and no new announcements were made (or "unmade").
Apple has choosen not to unveil Leopard until after Vista ships (June-ish). They don't want MS running their photocopiers this time. Any new Apple computers will probably wait until then.
Since, you know, M$ is known for their ability to quickly get an OS out the door...
Since when did Jobs drop the best part of the keynote?
I'm worried about the large screen getting affected by constant pocket rubbing, especially with keys and other things. Where's the flip-up hard cover?
I work developing CDMA network controller software, and I have never owned a cellphone, but this is the first time I really wanted one of these devices.
:-)
Apple still has the magic. I am extremely impressed with the overall packaging and integration. Cingular really scored getting this halo product. Naturally I would have preferred to see this integrated with a CDMA network because I think high end customers will follow this device and away from CDMA networks that I develop for. Probably a small effect in the end but still, I might have been able to get one through work for testing if they had gone CDMA.
I have never owned an Apple product yet but with their continued design excellence, I think it is only a matter of time.
Cisco clearly owns the trademarked name, and in the phone category. And they've owned it sine long before the iPod, a name registered only in 2001. And they're using it. Sooner or later, probably sooner, Apple will have to pay money to Cisco. Lots of money.
Word Mark: IPHONE
Category: Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: computer hardware and software for providing integrated telephone communication with computerized global information networks.
FIRST USE: 1997-06-06.
FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 1997-06-06
Registration Number: 2293011
Registration Date: November 16, 1999
REGISTRANT: INFOGEAR TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 1775 WOODSIDE ROAD REDWOOD CITY CALIFORNIA 94061
LAST LISTED OWNER: CISCO TECNOLOGY, INC. CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 170 WEST TASMAN SAN JOSE CALIFORNIA 95134
Uh...forget what I just said about Apple's tightly integrated sh-t...I want you to have Vista running on a new MSCommunicator by June!
why no new mac systems / hardware?
Where is the duel quad-core macpro?
If apple does not go to quad-core soon dell and others will be able to have better systems for less.
Way no head less mid-rage mac?
This is need to get mac into more homes and business.
While Jobs didn't talk much about Leopard, Xcode or the other great stuff Apple has coming this year, I can picture a nice scenario where one will be able to choose "iPhone Project" in Xcode and code like they would (albeit with a very different GUI notion) for the Mac. I also suspect that DashCode was released just to make it easier to build custom widgets for this thing.
If you can buy it without the Cingular/AT&T service from Apple, then it might be worth the cost, since the WiFi/Bluetooth is cool enough and I already have Verizon (along with the entire fam).
5hrs life, tho... gonna be tough if you use it as a cell phone.
Mind the gap...
The thing runs MacOSX. Has anyone seen the specs for the CPU inside the phone? Just kinda curious. Many phones are ARM based, is it also the case with the iPhone?
$179 - built-in "airport disk" sharing of USB hard drives -- woohoo
Only one USB port -- boo
Beauty is truly in the eye of the tiger
I'm sure lots of people are enamored by this presentation... I'm not interested in the slightest. iPhone? It's really an Apple-branded PDA. At $600, it's NOT AN F'N PHONE! I'm pretty sure I could already get a PDA with cell phone functionality for an outrageous price like that. But Apple rebundles lots of current ideas in a shinier box, and they'll get credit for reinventing the industry. Meh. If you're a Mac fan already, maybe this was a massive presentation. If you already didn't "get it" (or like me, think it's ridiculous), this presentation is utterly uninsteresting.
This is the coolest device I've ever seen. Was looking for my wallet during the presentation... too bad I can't have it tomorrow, would have paid a grand!
Btw - apple site updated with details: http://www.apple.com/iphone/
where is bash (Terminal)... OMG, if its in there...please God, I mean Steve, please...
slons
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the FCC (or someone like them) pass a regulation saying that a person can change carriers without having to buy a new phone and could keep their old number? Of course, Algore could just claim "no controlling legal authority...except Appleinc." to get around it.
Much as I detest Cingular, Apple likely had little choice but to partner with one of the major cell phone carriers. Apple could, of course, had sold the iPhone without a SIM and had the customers install their own.
That would have been a marketing / tech support / and logistical mess, with different networks providing different data plans, features, connectivity, and even basic networks (GSM versus whatever the hell's out there). Partnering with Cingular makes life ever so much easier for Apple. Not only that, it prevents Cingular / ATT from partnering with some vaporware future Microsoft product that could steal Apple's thunder.
I'm not going to defend Cingular's horrific record. They're awful, no doubt. But all the wireless firms are awful right now. Given that Steve divested Apple of the awesome Imaging group, the nifty Newton, and other business units it would be surprising if Apple wanted to get into the cell phone provisioning business.
On another note, I'm already looking at how to rewrite a few Widgets to work on the iPhone...
/* Dang, I can't type that well. */
I'm extremely disappointed in this Keynote. AppleTV: An accessory to the boob-tube. The phone looks neat, but 1/2 a year away? Puh-lease! Where are the Macintosh updates? The updated iWork suite? These are things that ~I~ need to get work done!!! I guess it's the difference between Apple Computer and Apple.
Remember that Apple's been making buckets of money, for years, by selling things that either were or were perceived to be more expensive than the competition.
From the bottom of http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/index.html
"All these features and more are delivered to you in one universal, fully accessible, 64-bit operating system. Coming spring 2007."
Why does my post history abruptly stop? I want to laugh at the stupid things I posted as a kid.
Since Rogers is the only real GSM/EDGE provider in Canada, they'll likely carry the iPhone. They also co-brand their Hi-Speed Internet with Yahoo!, so this business arrangement seems to be set up to work well.
/4gb and C$599 /8gb with a 3 year contract. To contrast, I paid $499 for my Blackberry 8700r with Rogers in Canada, with a 3 year contract, in mid 2006. (I believe it's at $299 now.)
The price will be interesting in Canada, however. I am betting iPhone will likely be C$499
It's a lot, but my Blackberry doesn't have 8gb of space either, nor WiFi, or a great browser.
Now the only question is whether one can deal with typing on a non-tactile keyboard.
-Stu
CISCO has owned the iPhone trademark since 2000. Exactly what claim do you think Apple would have been able to make in court? "Hey, they refuse to sell us their intellectual property that they legally own, which is of course their right, but we don't like it! That's why were suing!"
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
Did anyone catch that they're dropping "Computer" from the name? Now it's just going to be "Apple Inc.".
Now those Apple ][ badges look *really* dated now!
can you replace the battery? ;)
You can be certain that the OS X that runs on the iPhone is a distant relative of the OS X that runs on the desktop. The two OS probably have as much as common as say, Windows XP and Windows Mobile. Think fork.
1) It would not matter WHAT carrier they chose. People would dump on them because there are large groups which hate EVERY cell carrier in the U.S.
2) I've seen NO confirmation that you HAVE to buy a contract.
3) Anti Apple Trolls will take a large steaming dump on it no matter what it is.
Steve's comments during the keynote seemed to imply that the device also has built-in GPS ("...it knows where it is...") but can't find confirmation anywhere. My question is, does it include GPS, and if it does, can you use Google Maps for turn-by-turn directions to your destination? If yes, then in addition to replacing my phone, blackberry, iPod, MacBook, and PSP (for movies on the plane), it would also replace my Garmin Streetpilot. Sweet.
Reality has a liberal bias
Ok, the phone is incredible. But the carrier sucks and the price, while reasonable, is really gonna add up when you add a data enabled calling plan. What I really want is this version of OS X on the iPod. Turn it into the iPhone minus the phone, and they can still charge close to $500 for it, and not have to share anything with Cingular.
"The problem with internet quotations is that many are not genuine" -Abraham Lincoln
I can't find any indication in the tech specs or in the keynote coverage whether the battery can be replaced. (Spec sheet just talks about the battery eventually wearing out.)
How many cycles before one has to replace the entire phone?
You are incorrect. I have Cingular, and have unlimited data. I send many many megabytes of data on my phone. I am charged $20 per month.
Why should I spend $500+ on a beautiful 3.5" screen that will be scratched to hell after a few weeks of 16+ hour days in my pocket? Boo.
*drools*
In this thread I want to give you the opportunity to state whether your earlier trolling against cellphones with mp3 playback functionality was 100%-Apple-fanboyism or if you stand by it and think the iPhone should never have happened. Thx.
Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
The page about the "Apple TV" has a link to the new wireless base station. It looks interesting, including some more advanced filtering (e.g. limit your kids time when they are allowed internet access).
Any other new products or updates?
That's a little high to pay for a phone. Let's see what it can do first.
Once I read in a little further, I lost most of my interest in this as a smartphone. There's no HSDPA, no hardware keyboard (the software one looks terrible), it's big (albeit thin), and the battery life is supposedly 5 hours - not exactly awe-inspiring. Couple that with Cingular's terrible plans and so-so coverage in my area, and I've gotta pass. (If I wanted to use WiFi for my high-speed internet access, I would have bought a real PDA.)
It's too bad, because it's a beautiful, feature-filled phone, and the interface looks amazing. But for the smartphone crowd, it just doesn't seem like it's going to hit the right notes. For the "I wish my phone was an iPod Nano" crowd, it'll be pretty awesome.
Personally, I hope this drives Microsoft forward into improving PocketPC. They've had a little too much time to relax with Palm's relative lack of development, and they need a swift kick in the pants. Of course, it's harder when you don't control the hardware platform, but there are many places to improve...
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
Ok so when I heard that the iPhone was finally being released, what I expected really didn't excite me. I was expecting an iPod that has a built in phone and not much more. But then I went and actually looked at the thing. Wow! Not only does this thing look like nothing else out there, but it's so much more than just an iPod with a phone. It is literally a tablet computer, shrunk down even further to pocket size. It's running a full blown operating system (OSX). So it isn't an iPod phone, it's a Mac phone, which is pretty impressive. My only issue is that I don't really have a need or want for such a device (I don't have or want an mp3 player, I don't need a blackberry type device [yet], and generally I'm a Linux guy). As far as a phone goes, my little quad band LG flip phone suits me perfectly (although the camera is excessive). And then there is the price. $499 for the base model. That's pretty steep. When you compare it feature to feature with similarly priced objects the price makes a little more sense, but you have to keep in mind that Apple is expecting this to be as widespread and popular as the iPod, which means it needs to be priced more like an iPod and less like a Dell computer, or an XBOX 360. I'm not sure what Apples plans are for price drops once demand starts catching up, but for now, it's mostly just a wet dream for most geeks.
"It's not whether you win or lose, it's how drunk you get." -- H. J. Simpson
While I am sure this will sell well, I can't help but think they missed the boat on this one. It's an amazing piece of technology, but who is it aimed at? For those seeking only a widescreen iPod, who have a lot of music, shows and movies,4 Gigs is clearly not enough, especially at $500. For those who actually use their smartphones for communications, will they really want a smooth device without a keyboard?
I have a 30Gig iPod. I have a phone. I'm happy with both. Why would I want a device that can't store my media with a phone service I won't use?
I would have been much happier with a iPhone with more storage and sans the phone.
From apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html
Screen size 3.5 inches
Screen resolution 320 by 480 at 160 ppi
Input method Multi-touch
Operating system OS X
Storage 4GB or 8GB
GSM Quad-band (MHz: 850, 900, 1800, 1900)
Wireless data Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) + EDGE + Bluetooth 2.0
Camera 2.0 megapixels
Battery * Up to 5 hours Talk / Video / Browsing
* Up to 16 hours Audio playback
Dimensions 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Weight 4.8 ounces / 135 grams
The iPhone looks nice. Overpriced and tied to a terrible service provider, but the gadget itself looks cool.
But where's the next-generation iPod? It's obvious that the technology is there; the iPhone has pretty much every feature that one could dream of in a next-generation iPod: it's widescreen, touch-controlled, and has much better screen resolution.
What about the vast majority of iPod customers who don't want an overfeatured, overpriced toy ($600 plus a two-year contract with the worst mobile service provider in the US--and they have a monopoly on it, by the way) with little storage capacity that won't be available until June? What about those of us who aren't interested in satellite images of the Washington Monument, or a simple way to voice-dial Starbucks, and just want a sexy gadget to play movies on the train? Why does Apple insist on shoving these extra features down our throats at an exorbitant price, offering no alternative? I thought they had more respect for their customers than that.
Have you ever used a navigation device that uses a cell connection? They are horrible, slow and most importantly laggy. Vector maps that are draw by a device are incredibly faster, but generally need a fast processor and over 1 gig of store. There will always be room for Navigation devices as long as you need fast maps, a big screen and no $60 a month unlimited data plan.
Kind of disappointing. Sure, Jobs is excited, but some of us like Apple for things other than the iPod/iTMS.
I know it's only got a 40gig drive, but it seems pretty decked out with interfaces; with a USB HDTV tuner and a bigger drive it would be a pretty good mythtv box.
Its a PDA with a phone and wifi. And it uses your fingers instead of a stylus (a bad mistake, having used a DS and other touch technology- I *want* a stylus, fingers are way too clutzy). If you carry a phone and a pda, you can converge. If you don't, it doesn't give you anything.
I'll get excited over something like this the day there's reasonable nationwide wifi so I can use the net from literally anywhere. Until then, the only interesting feature of it is hamstrung.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service//cell-p hone-plans/smartphone-connect-plans.jsp
This phone appears to be EDGE, not HSDPA. That this supposedly revolutionary device runs on Cingular's old 2G network is pitiful. EV-DO is out there and working in many places on Sprint and Verizon. Even rear guard Cingular has rolled out 3G in some cities. Color me disappointed.
Biggest loser might be GPS device makers: Why spend $500 for a portable GPS unit when you can have the same thing (and get the "killer app" of Google-searchable maps, plus the nice bonus of satellite imagery, which can't be done on a portable GPS unit) in your phone for the same price?
Looks like they had the same idea ;) http://www.trimbleoutdoors.com/TrimbleOutdoors.asp x
The two OS probably have as much as common as say, Windows XP and Windows Mobile
:P
Yeah, I'm a bit skeptical of a full OS X install running on that thing. It would be pretty cool if you could get some type of desktop and actually write apps for the iPhone on the iPhone. I'm probably the only one in the world who would want a feature like that.
Also, for an 'all in one' type device, there is one thing it's missing. Games! I'm not sure what kind of games could work well on a touch screen outside of puzzle/card games, but hopefully there will be a few that run on there.
Would've been nicer if it went something like...
.mac, or (insert IP phone provider here). If you'd like to use it as a cell phone, it will work with any GSM-based provider. We've a partnership with Cingular to offer the phone at a reduced rate to take advantage of existing services and offer customers greater convenience."
...but... with wireless in every second coffee shop, and voicemail through .Mac or wherever, for a lot of urbanites, that might be a sufficient replacement.
"You can make calls over wireless internet -- we can hook you up through
-- grows from Apple/iPod, and offers nifty communications capabilities.
-- phone part comes second, and is interoperable with existing GSM providers.
Disadvantage is that you downplay the cell phone part.
Their comments about it running a full-fledged operating system (some variant of OS X) implies they could do something like this with applications in the future -- or at least enable others to do it with a dev kit.
As it stands now, I think I'll be waiting with fingers crossed for the second or third generation -- or at least until they break away from a single provider -- wasn't Apple supposed to be about thinking differently?
Wheres the Core 2 Duo and the Upgraded graphics and the solid state storage!?
-jX
Don't you just love politics? It's like a comedy of errors.
"Or maybe that's a misleading statement. IMO, the PC will be around for a good long while, but it will increasingly be as a coordination center for your other devices and for a few specialty items (editing photos, for example). From what I can see, many of the other things it can do, the things that previously *only* a PC could do, are going to become incorporated into more convenient devices. This is only a first, albeit welcome, step"
:) Seriously wrap a business model around that and you'll be rich.
More than you know.
Is Apple still going to be selling computers?
You are welcome on my lawn.
If you desire a tactile input for games then one can imagine all sorts of stick-on rubber button arrays and other sorts of intefaces. These would adhere (removably) to the screen and the touches translated to actions. Sort of a universal adapter for any sort of input. So I don't see the virtual buttons as foreclosing tacile input fopr games
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
If there is an increase in demand, the price will not drop. The company will attempt charge the price where supply meets demand. If they can't make a long term profit, they won't do it. Past investments for infrastructure are irrelevant for future decisions.
The only thing which will lead to a decrease in price is an increase in supply (competitors realize there is a market) or a decrease in demand.
Linux runs on everything from phones and toasters to supercomputer clusters. You only need to fork your operating system if it wasn't designed with scalability in mind.
This finally got their servers down! Thanks Slashdot!
(I've seen most of it, and it looks heavenly!)
This device just looks astounding! However, I'm just way to weary of Cingular to try them out. I have heard SO many bad things about Cingular, including that they are one of the worst rated cell providers out there, along with Sprint. Now I'm hearing people here say that you are required to sign up for their insanely priced data plans if you want to get the 2 year contract price on smart phones. I have also heard that it's like pulling teeth to get phone unlock codes from them. I've been very happy with T-Mobile for the last few years and don't plan on changing any time soon. Too bad. No iPhone for me until they start selling unlocked ones for a reasonable price on eBay (probably a few years down the line).
Having looked at the Apple site, they've made a big thing about AppleTV (ATV from here on) synching with iTunes so you can watch stuff downloaded from the iTunes Store. Here's my question - can you also watch video that didn't come from iTunes?
:p) Presumably ATV isn't going to let me watch these on my TV. So unless there's some footnote I've missed, it seems more like the function of the ATV is 'Watch stuff you've bought from the iTunes Store on your TV', which is far less exciting than it originally seemed.
iTunes can't import AVIs or WMVs - at least, I've never managed to get it to do so - of which I have a whole bunch on my hard drive. (And no, they're not all downloads of 24: Day 6, some of them are legit...
Will there be a workaround to allow stuff to stream from VLC, I wonder?
You must think in Russian.
My main question is will it have PAM capabilities ("Phone As Modem"), so it can be tethered to your laptop as a cellular modem? And furthermore, will it offer PAM alongside Cingular's emerging 3G HSDPA (High Speed Data Packet Access) service, which gives EVDO or better speeds. Despite all the pretty and cool features, PAM and HSDPA are going to be big selling features for me.
Luckily the phone starts shipping within weeks of my old contract being through, so I'll be in the market for one. But if Treo has PAM/HSDPA and iPhone doesn't... it will be a hard decision.
- Greg
Start a happiness pandemic
Who said wii killer? it just is ripe for allowing wii like functionality. Not everyone has a wii or an apple. But if you had one of these iphones would you not want it to be a video game controller too?
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Oh my, check out the movies on Apple's site, for example here or here. This thing is totally controlled by gestures (check out zooming in and out of pictures!) and by moving the phone. This is unbelievable. It's totally awesome. I want one. Now. Die, P990i, die!
I love how everyone is claiming that Apple has captured the cell/pda market today. The truth is, there aren't any businesses larger than 10 people (hint: the majority of the mobile communication market) going near this anytime soon without better integration. Yahoo! Mail and IMAP/POP polling aren't going to cut it for e-mail notification, and I doubt Apple's going to support Exchange's Direct Push or BlackBerry's Enterprise Server anytime soon.
can I squirt someone with it???
I don't think The Steve even mentioned this,
but check out Apple's new 802.11n base station
(sadly, named the same as the previous one):
http://www.apple.com/airportextreme/
If you don't have 'N in your present machine,
network it to this little guy for that AppleTV
goodness...
Quoth the Moose: Any job worth doing is worth complaining about.
This phone looks to change absolutely everything regarding cell phones. I bet Steve Balmer is throwing chairs right now in Redmond!
Next Year! Woohoo!
All I see at the cingular web site is $199 AFTER $100 rebate. What are you smoking?
h ones/pda-phones-smartphones.jsp
http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/cell-p
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
This is slashmacfanboydot for goodness sake!
If the phone can run SIP software (And it looks like it's just OSX so it should be able to) then you could switch over to a "One handset to rule them all" setup. At home or anywhere else where there's wifi you can connect to an Asterisk server over sip. Otherwise default to cell. The problem then becomes how to terminate your Asterisk box into the PSTN. You could get a VOIP provider (Telasip works with asterisk and you can ask them to unlock your account so that you can change your caller ID.) Or you could terminate it into the PSTN with a digium card or a SIP gateway. In either case you can provide one phone number to your customers and have asterisk fail over to the cell if your main line doesn't pick up. If you use telasip for such endeavors you can spoof your customer's caller ID to the cell network so you even know who's calling.
Once you take control of your network endpoint in this manner the sky is pretty much the limit. Blacklist phone numbers, let your callers play hunt-the-wumpas, have a corporate-class voice responder, make free calls over enum or Dundi... pretty much anything you can think of can be done when you have that much control of your end of the phone network.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
No Blu-Ray. Less space than a PS3. Lame.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
While Apple has always been able to drive purchases with good technology and great form factors, I'll have a hard time going back to Cingular AND dealing with the apparent cost.
... is this really that much more than what I have today at helf the price? Will I trade in my carrier and my Blackberry for an iPhone from Cingular.
Put another way:
What a great device! Wow, would I like to have one! But
I'm not sure.
Am I the only one who was right there with Jobs up until he announced the specs and ...........no tuner card???!!! So basically it's an airport extreme for video. I'm first in line for the phone, but Apple TV? meh
"And yeah, MACworld and not ONE word about Macs? "
Yes, ther WAS one word in a way. One word REMOVED from the name of the company.
Apple Computer Inc. --> Apple Inc.
(Wasn't part of the deal with the Beatles over this distinction?)
I think that speaks volumes about where Apple is headed, which is to make computers an optional part of their business. If five years down the road the hardware (or even software) part of the business isn't contributing, it can easily be jettisoned.
5 hours for video and internet and 16 for voice.
Sounds a bit crap.
http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html
Battery info a bit garbled on my browser though.
Uh, Nintendo DS seems to indicate that touch screen games are highly sought after, and profitable.
I (and just about everyone I know) cannot bring a phone to work with a camera in it. The camera renders it useless to me. Camera phones are for teens and kiddies. We adults have digital SLR Canons and Nikons.
Oh, probably. There will be a developer's kit for it and what not. It's a while away, so, relax.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
As phenomenal as the push for DLNA has been, we still aren't seeing the consumer fanaticism for it that we've seen for IPods. Is the latest Mac set-top box going to be the break out product?
Finally, this is the device I've been looking for! I've been wanting more functionality in my mobile devices, but needing a big freakin keyboard was a real turn off and the feeling of still not being able to synch with everything. The iPhone is essentially like carrying a stylish Mac around in your pocket. This thing is going to sell like crazy, even at $599 and a lot of smartphones and Blackberrys are going to be junked in its wake. Nice job Apple!
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
Sure, for cars. But a lot of people want to use GPS maps out in the woods, on a boat, or other places where Cingular or Wi-Fi isn't.
Since the iPhone will run MacOSX the big question is what UNIX features will be supported? Will it run Fink? What about XWindows?
I probably won't even buy such device (I'm talking about iPhone) for some five years, but this looks really cool and very well thought out. This is slam dunk from Apple, again. Nice. Yeah, they are expensive as hell, but actually their products matter.
p.s. Apple TV was kinda surprisingly nice too. Didn't expect it.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
Windows NT and Windows CE are totally different operating systems. I think this is more likely to be like the difference between Windows NT Workstation and Windows NT Embedded.
You may have noticed that the same linux kernel runs on your desktop and in embedded devices. Expect the same force to be at work here, in OSXland.
Forking would make supporting the mobile version of OSX even more complex and it's already quite portable, so why fork?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The new name was registered just before Xmas -- someone poking around could have found it online:
y CorpNumber=C2814078
http://kepler.ss.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?Quer
Corporation
APPLE INC.
Number: C2814078 Date Filed: 12/21/2005 Status: active
Jurisdiction: California
Address
ONE INFINITE LOOP
CUPERTINO, CA 95014
Agent for Service of Process
WENDY L HOWELL
P O BOX 802
ALAMEDA, CA 94501
This has been available on the PPC-6700 using a GPS-enabled version of Minimo and a bluetooth GPS for quite some time and it hasn't taken off or significantly affected handheld GPS sales... granted, it isn't quite this polished but it could be if the demand was there.
Full-Featured GPL Web Hosting Control Panel
No, you can't be certain of this any more than people were "certain" that there was no x86 development for OS X when people were saying that two years ago, as categorically as you are saying this now.
You will know more when you see things like SDKs and support in XCode, and developer manuals about dealing with the iPhone UI.
Anyone who has access to this information is under NDA, and is probably at Apple already, and enjoying the fun of surprising people with cool -- and unleaked -- new features.
Moreover, there are things you can infer from the clever use of Apple Remote Desktop to show the split screen of The Steve operating his iPhone in his hand in real time, and a stabilized display of what he was seeing.
I thought so too, but then I realized that the iPhone runs Mac OS X, and perhaps the AppleTV thingy also does. I consider that a positive sign.
If it runs OSX, why not make it possible to hook up a monitor and keyboard, making it possible to use it as a regular computer. Am I the only one to notice this, but it seem this story /.ed /.?
Well, first of all I like the device. I think it looks like exactly what I need to replace my aging MPX220... but probably not until next year.
Why? Well, first of all there's the issue of locking. OK, so I use Cingular... but I'll be damned if I'm going to sign another contract with them to get this phone for $599. That's not because I'm balking at the price... I don't like to be locked to a provider. The last 4 cellphones I've purchased were all unlocked GSM phones. I pay more for them, but I get to use them wherever and whenever I want. That way when I fly to England (which I'll be doing again this year) I can pick up a Virgin Mobile SIM at the airport (or more often in London... they're cheaper there) and just pay as I go with a UK phone number for the duration of my trip. Plus then I have my regular contacts, calendar and stuff with me (not to mention my eBooks).
I'm no on a contract with Cingular, but I stick with them today because they provide me decent coverage, decent service and don't really seem to care what kind of phone I attach to their network.
Now, to those who ARE balking at the price with a 2-year contract... well this is a smartphone. As such, compare it to smartphones, not to the standard handsets. Even devices such as the SLVR don't compare despite their limited music-playing capability because the Apple phone is going to be a smartphone in the same way that the current PDA phones are. It just runs OSX instead of Windows CE or Palm. The price is about in-the-range that you'd expect to pay. For an unlocked phone, expect around $200-$250 more.
Now will I pay $850 for the phone I want? Probably. I paid about $500 for my MPX220 and I've had it for two years so far. 3 years out of that investment I think is reasonable... given inflation over the last couple of years I think I can justify $850 for my next three-year investment in a decent cellphone. The fact that it'll replace my MPX220 and iPod Nano at the same time, as well as give me an OSX based system is just the icing on the cake for me.
As some have already commented. My first thought was: this is the return of Newton.
Besides, will airlines allow passengers to turn the iPhone on? They explicitly say not to turn on their mobile phones. It'd be a bummer if I can't watch video or listen to music on a long flight.
I'm sorry... seems that the pricing was offered via mail to existing customers. However, some Cingular resellers are offering even better pricing. Treocentral.com (also an excellent forum) has the 680 for free for new subscribers and $49 for existing customers with a contract extension. All of these prices are predicated on having the $40/mo PDA connect data plan on top of voice service. It's not so bad: there are ways to get the data service transferred to the MediaNet Unlimited $20/mo plan after the rebate arrives. See the Treocentral forums for info on how people have done this in the past with Cingular.
More expensive than a Blackberry. Requires a two year Cingular service contract. Lame. :)
That won't make google any money because you won't need additional software.
What would be more useful is if your GSM provider would provide you with location information from TDOA, because it doesn't require a GPS and can be calculated any time your phone's signal can be picked up by multiple sites.
Meanwhile, if you want real GPS, the device has bluetooth and you can get a bluetooth gps very cheaply. I'd like to see it integrated but the battery life is already less than ideal.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
A new "AirPort Extreme Base Station" is listed in their store, shipping in February. £119. Have a look.
Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped. Calvin Coolidge
It's a little slow but that could be that I'm going through a VPN on my home DSL connection.
awesome
The iPhone is only GSM/EDGE and does not support 3G/UMTS. This makes it a non-starter, it is that simple.
Yeah... I want to be waving around my 600$ phone with sweaty hands.
-30-
That gives you some time to save up for it, rather than put it on your iCreditCard
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Leopard allows you to make an "answering message" with your built-in iSight.
Ya, what was up with that?
Apple claims they haven't even disclosed the OS' full feature set yet... and it ships in spring. Whatever Apple has yet to announce must consist of non-critical toys that do not effect 3rd party developers or the functionality / stability of ADC builds.
Sometimes saying nothing speaks volumes.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
...as they sold their Xscale business to Marvel.
That might be the case, but the reason for the delay is that the iPhone hasn't been authorized by the FCC yet.
Like iPod Video, can you hook this up to the TV and watch videos, see photographs, hear music (speakers), etc.?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Eric Schmidt said "wimax is coming." Does this mean Apple will partner with Sprint-Nextel, when its transition to wimax is complete? Or could this mean that Google has some wimax plans of its own?
Can we build like...a taser into it too? And what about a portable toaster attachment for when I want to cook a bagel on the plane?
Now instead of a Kaleidescape, I can buy an Xserve-RAID and rip all my DVDs to H.264. All my music, movies, photos... and now TV shows from iTunes (quicker than waiting for the end of the season for DVDs). Should be cheaper than a Kaleidescape, too.
Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
I'm going to freeze myself until this comes out. Remember that tree over there and get me in June.
It should be easy to get an ssh terminal running on this thing. In fact, I think you could get X running on it.
An obvious home run. Crackberrys are history. Every admin is going to be leashed to one of these things.
Where the HELL is iChat integration? As in, IM'ing or calling your iChat contacts, maybe not from GSM / Edge network, but at least from any WiFi hotspot? I certainly hope they thought about it?!
Hello! I'm a disaster waiting to happen!
dated yesterday. :-)
Snarky comment aside, people inside Apple (there are some folks who work there other than SJ) have been slaving on this for a long time. Looks like they've done really nice work. Bet they're glad they can finally talk about it! I mean, working on black DOD stuff one expects that, but it's kind of funny not to be able to talk...about a phone!
And most of all, I look forward to tech rumors about something other than Apple's new phone.
Why does everyone assume that an OS is solely comprised of a kernel? Do you not consider Ubuntu to be a fork of Debian?
Anyone who thinks these devices are going to run full blown OS X is delusional. This will be a stripped down, platform specific, optimized version of OS X for mobile devices and appliances (iTV anyone?). They will share code. They will share APIs.
But at $299 I don't think we can expect a tuner, given that USB HDTV tuners are $150+ and PCI HDTV tuners are around $100. And given the limitation to 720p, making it a full-bore Tivo won't work (my guess is that downconverting 1080i to 720p is at least as hard as playing 1080i). Then again, maybe Apple didn't want have a fight (because of Tivo-style commercial skip) with media companies it's trying to coax onto iTunes.
Apple hasn't said anything about the development tools or capabilities for this thing. I wonder whether it will be totally programmable in all languages, particularly C and C++. They haven't been so open about programming the iPod and not mentioning it all has me a little worried...
Dashboard Widgets. It's all coming together now.
-Darkshadow (There was a thing called Heaven; but all the same they used to drink enormous quantities of alcohol.)
Ok so it is $599 with and requiring a two year contract and locked to Cingular. But that is NOT really a good look at the true cost. It is just the buy in.
The really cool stuff is not the phone but all the internet features. So if you want 600-1000min per month, about $50 and the cheapest unlimited data plan (to use Google, email, all the other stuff etc...) it is about $60.
So with taxes you are looking at around $140/month or in other words close to $1,700 per year!!
Cheers
I'm seriously thinking just cancel the cell phone service with Cingular after buying the device.
Just bend over, take it like a man with the termination fee, but walk away with the most awesome PDA to date.
Or, maybe the next gen iPod will have this interface with built in WIFI and apps?
On the tech specs page it doesn't mention expansion (but it doesn't mention lot of other things too, like CPU and such), but the picture shows a slot in the side. Perhaps for a flash card?
CISCO has owned the iPhone trademark since 2000. Exactly what claim do you think Apple would have been able to make in court? "Hey, they refuse to sell us their intellectual property that they legally own, which is of course their right, but we don't like it! That's why were suing!"
Trademarks are different from patents and copyrights. If most people associate your copyright with something other than your product, you lose it. Aspirin and Heroin were revoked the same day because they were not associated only with Bayer. Trademark laws are designed to keep a company from tricking users into thinking a product is from someone else. If you did a Google search right after Cisco announced the iPhone product they are selling (and I did) you would have seen 8 of the top ten results referred to a rumored, unnamed product from Apple, 1 was Cisco's marketing site, and one was an article claiming Cisco was trying to confuse customers into thinking their product was made by Apple. To me that sounds like a lot of evidence that it was Cisco that was trying to mislead customers, possible grounds for the trademark being transferred or revoked.
Not that that would happen, necessarily, but your implication that Apple had no case is a little off base.
My guess is that 5-7 years down the line, they introduce something that is barely recognizable as a "computer" that's aimed at replacing the current personal computer. The long-rumored tablet, but as different from current Tablet PCs as the iPhone is from blackberrys. A whole different class of product.
I hope.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
No, Cisco would sue Apple. That's why Cisco having the trademark matters.
On one hand, it's a cool way to get video from my computer to my living room. OTOH:
/user/movies, or if it just syncs with iTunes. Most of my video isn't store-bought and doesn't show up in iTunes.
- Apple.com doesn't say if the device can read video files from
- no tuner. A bit disappointing, although I must say most of the content I watch these days I download off the internet anyway.
- it's yet another always-on device. It better have a low-power sleep mode. I prefer my electronics to be Really Off when I'm not using them.
It has to be said, for old time's sake..... Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these.
Linux is a single unified source base. Pop open a console and go to /usr/src/linux. Architecture-specific code goes in the "arch" folder. On my system I've got code for 28 architectures in the arch folder, averaging about 2mb each. The other 217 megs of shit is platform-independent. That works out to about 1% arch-specific code.
Most distros offer their own patchsets against the main kernel tree, but you can run red hat's 2.6.19 kernel on suse, gentoo, etc etc as long as you build it to use whatever features the operating system requires (udev/devfs/etc) support.
Linux is not maintained as disjoint projects with a shared code base. One central repository (kernel.org) maintains the offical source, and specialists maintain the architecture-specific code.
Neither the arch-specific code nor the patchsets are forks. You probably consider them to be forks because you do not know what a fork is. A fork is when a group of developers copy the code from a project and develop it independently in another direction without any intention to merge back with the main trunk. Arch-specific code is not a fork because it exists as part of the main kernel trunk. Patchsets are not forks because they only exist to be applied against the main trunk. Good patchsets frequently get merged into the trunk anyways.
What will the insurance be like on these? Cingular refuses (or atleast used to) insure my treo 650. I want some damn good insurance for $500 phone!
Does it run Linux?
A couple of things that I didn't hear mentioned was if it has the ability to run IM clients, such as Yahoo, MSN, AOL and Google; and what Java support is built-in. Does anyone have any info regarding this? He mentioned that it supports OSX, so in theory, it shouldn't be a problem, though I'm not sure how stripped down/limited this version will be.
Personally, I think having IM services and J2ME would be the icing on the cake. Well, that and supporting 3G.
3rd party utilities will do this already.
The full Nero package does this quite painlessly; if your iPod it attached, it will send it directly to your iPod without putting it in iTunes first.
There are literally dozens of free, or almost free, utilities that do this already.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
IMHO it's just a good marketing strategy: The only word we are going to be hearing for the next few weeks is iPhone. iPhone this, iPhone that, iPhone hit my brother Billy with a whiffle-ball bat. Announcing Leopard features now would lose the information in the flood of publicity that is iPhone. As it stands now, I think they feel damn comfortable waiting off a while before announcing any new Leopard features. *Just added iPhone to my Firefox dictionary
"Progress comes from the intelligent use of experience."
Looks like all this stuff, iLife 07 etc. will need OS X 10.5. The phone too probably runs a version of 10.5 and its components. I guess we will have to wait until June.
PS> I wanted to see the "SECRET" stuff in Leopard Jobs spoke of.
I suspect that the defense for that would be thus: Since Apple itself never announced an iPhone product, Cisco (and any other company in a similar situation) shouldn't be locked out of their trademark by consumer rumors. Unless I'm mistaken, you can't trademark words unless you actually do "trade" in a particular name.
> There will be a developer's kit for it and what not.
Probably. But notice what wasn't said, always the thing to do at rah rah events like this. NOwhere did they even mention being able to install, run, use normal OS X applications on the thing. Considering what a coup it would be vs WinCE, if it could do it His Steveness would have crowed about it.
So will it be the typical mobile phone development deal, expensive development kit, massive legal hurdles in the NDA dept intended to make sure only select large development houses play and they play according to the mobile phone rules? Will the operating software in the thing be DRMed like the newest iPods so that only Apple signed binaries boot/run? Steve didn't say, and the silence is disturbing.
Democrat delenda est
Considering the fact that it won't be until July 2008 before Microsoft gets games into the Zune, I'd say they're a little backlogged on iPod catch-up features. I'm seriously wondering what happened in the middle of your post, though, because it made lots of sense (or sounded like it, except it took me about 30 seconds to figure out what "visula voice messaging" was supposed to be), until about halfway through point 2.
Sure the phone has sensors (lots of devices do), but I'm sure it will never, ever be intended for them to be used in the way you described. Maybe there will be some kind of hack project to make the iPhone usable as a very basic interface for something, but the basic sensors it has are limited, I'm sure to being useful for their intended design purposes. The Wiimote was designed over a period of years to be used as a controller for the Wii. It's functionality won't be duplicated by a hacked iPhone. And I don't think Microsoft wants to make a controller/phone/Zune that costs as much as its competitors more expensive games console, to attract people to the XBox360. The last thing you want to do is throw your $500 controller for the $400 console at your $2000 plasma. Not to mention the fact that the Wii controller concept works because the Wii was designed around it. Unless Microsoft wants to build a Wii-style console, Wii-style controllers will never sell for it. Look up "Power Glove" and "U-Force" on wikipedia.
Um, why don't you go to the store (online or meatspace) and take a look?
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
If not, our company (and many others) won't touch it...
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Yeah, the idea of Microsoft copying Leopard's features was never a serious threat - they couldn't even get their original feature set implemented, let alone copy things from Apple at the last minute. The more likely reason for the timing is purely marketing. Announcing the new features in Leopard at the same time that Microsoft's releases Vista, will divert attention away from Vista an onto OS X - it'll "steal their thunder" so to speak. Simularly, the iPhone is a huge announcement and if they were to announce Leopard now, it would be partially overshadowed by the iPhone. By seperating the two announcements, Apple makes sure that they both get the most possible attention, while Microsoft gets the least.
Suppose demand suddenly skyrockets: If raising output is cheap, then producers will raise output considerably to take advantage of rapidly growing demand. Because we are dealing with a oligopoly with inefficient competition, prices will stabilize to a lower point than before, reflecting the differences in price elasticity between businessmen and normal consumers.
Apple's focus is usability. It makes products that are very usable.
"the iphone is cingular only"
/. is mainly a US-centric site, but considering that 'Cingular' doesn't operate in Europe or elsewhere (AFAIK), how is this being handled for other parts of the world? Can anyone help out?
I realise that
It's too bad you didn't respond to the meat of my comment, and instead replied to a supporting detail. I will copy and paste what I said previously into this comment in the hope that you will read it this time:
Windows NT and Windows CE are totally different operating systems. I think this is more likely to be like the difference between Windows NT Workstation and Windows NT Embedded.
I never said it would run the full OS, and if you read my comment and understood it (which is easily done, since in deference to people like you, I avoided using any words over three syllables) then you would know that.
Please, if you don't understand my comments, either don't respond to them, or respond with a request for clarification. I will try to further reduce the length of words so that you may apprehend them. Oh shit, that one had three syllables too...
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The PS3 is a toy. This is a useful tool. It's easy to justify spending 600 bucks on something that will help you save time and money. It's not easy to justify spending 600 bucks on a toy you play with during the evenings.
My thought is that, purely from a marketing perspective, there was no need to talk about Leopard, the iPhone will dominate press coverage for the forseeable future, and Leopard would have received little attention. Better to roll out Leopard after the accolades die down, it's all about spreading out your media attention.
Let it be true.
....
I find it really hard to imagine Apple letting a fully functional general purpose computer out the door these days -- but if this thing really runs OSX without being crippled, it may indeed finally be a decent book reader.
And my Sony Clie is sooooo tired
Dear Apple,
Give me a device, not a service. I don't use iTunes because I can download music for free... but I still buy mp3 players. Make an mp3 player that you can load like a flash drive without your crappy iTunes DRM tie-ins to protect those asshole publishers. I don't want a DRM Adobe eBook reader, I want my books in straight text or HTML. Give us free voip access via the wifi connection so we don't have to pay the filthy cell phone companies and I'll buy your iPhone for $599 minus the cost of these stupid business deals.
Sincerely,
Consumer
No 3G. Bigger than a RAZR. Lame.
;)
Had to be said
I use cingular - I've been using it for years - I got my first mobile phone in 1999 (with AT&T wireless) and when they merged/switched/whatever-i-really-don't-care-about -those-kinds-of-details with/to cingular, I stayed - I pay about as much as my friends do with other providers for similar plans and when someone calls me, the phone rings and I get to talk to them - what's not to like? seriously.
-w
calling all destroyers
I with you, brother. I bought my E61 based on happy experiences with Psion's stuff years ago. But it has proven to be as unstable as WINCE in the current incarnation, along with the issues of code signing, little hidden "copy protection" apps, etc. Didn't sign up for this.
Let's hope that this release gets Nokia, Palm and MS on the stick to get things right with the current offerings. Wouldn't be the first time that Apple's innovation indirectly benefited a lot of non-Apple users.
Use your imagination! My word, I'm sure people had a hard time imagining what types of games would grow out of the mouse / keyboard paradigm, but of course games evolved to fit the user interface. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because no touch interface games exist that there won't be very many! There will be more games than you can shake a stick at. I also disagree that OS X on the iPhone will be stunted or not as useful. The major benefits won't be power but extensibility. OS X on the computer will be strengthened immeasurably by OS X on portable devices, I can't get over how many different applications there will be.
The two articles were posted, and commented upon, by two different editors.
No reason to disparage Zonk, just because taco turned out to be a clueless twit.
cya,
john
Imagine all the people...
Apple got around that problem by essentially packing four devices in one. You are in a phone mode/music mode/video mode/browsing mode. Each is separated, though phone calls take priority (as they should for a phone). You can do that with a software interface that has dedicated controls per mode, instead of a set of tiny buttons that don't really do anything well because they have to be both a phone keypad and a keyboard.
That's what you failed to understand all this time, is that it's the collision between featuresets and UI that has created a mess on other phones, and what Apple has solved.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The graphics, and UI are stunning. It looks like they revisited the Newton, and we all know how easy and expensive that was (still being sold on eBay for >200$/pop)
I wish they would bring out this limited version of Mac OS X for PPC (G3 & G4) especially since Leopard probably won't run smoothly on the 'older' hardware.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
no tuner card???!!!
What are you going to tune? Cable TV? Why do you even have cable TV anymore? It's cheaper to buy season passes on iTunes for all the shows you actually want to watch, instead of paying much more each month for lots of stuff that you *aren't* going to watch, plus not being able to watch them any time you want.
why no new mac systems / hardware?
Where is the duel quad-core macpro?
Based on previous experience it is to prevent people getting overloaded with too much new stuff. Also, by using different press events for different products, Apple stays in the news and doesn't have products competing for news space.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Am I the only one who was right there with Jobs up until he announced the specs and ...........no tuner card???!!! So basically it's an airport extreme for video. I'm first in line for the phone, but Apple TV? meh
That's because you need to think of the appletv as a beefed-up airport express/ipod, not a stripped-down computer. The appletv's role is to display, not capture data.
From Engadget: "9:51am - It [running OSX] let us create desktop class applications and networking, not the cripled stuff you find on most phones, these are real desktop applications."
Kind of contradictory. Perhaps it runs the same kernel with a scaled down / modified GUI?
For those wanting the widescreen iPod I bet it comes out right after the phone is released. I think you'll get the iPhone without the phone. Similar form factor with disk instead of flash. It'll still run OSX and have the PDA/computer functionality along with WiFi. This would be a great little device and you would get a lot of the added functionality just with WiFi.
I can only begin to imagine the great dashboard widgets and apps that'll be released for them.
I can see me letting my fingers do the running. It'd be a snap!
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
I do think it's pretty clear the partnership with cingular alone is solid, since the network has to support some of the special features they are offering - later we might see more providers.
However I agree that whatever carrier they chose there would be mre complaints. I was actually pretty happy with Cingular since I had actually heard a few good things about them and I have tried most of the other majors and found them all annoying so far, which is why I keep switching.
Honestly the Apple phone looks useful enough that even if the carrier kind of sucks, I can still find a lot of value in it.
What I am hoping is wrong is the length of contract required, I'd really prefer a year even if it cost a bit more.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Now, to quote from Apple's web site:
"iPhone's accelerometer detects when you rotate the device from portrait to landscape, then automatically changes the contents of the display, so you immediately see the entire width of a web page or a photo in its proper landscape aspect ratio."
If all it does is detect if your holding the phone horizontally or vertically, it sounds more like an orientation sensor (i.e. a weighted switch) than any sort of real accelerometer - perhaps "accelerometer" is too generous a term? My dSLR has similar functionality - it has a small sensor that detects how the camera was oriented when the photo was shot, and it embeds this info into the resulting picture file - when you go to open the photo, if the software is smart enough to look for the embedded orientation information it will automatically rotate the image - sort of nice for avoiding straining one's neck all the time. Anyways, point is my dSLR does this and the manufacturer isn't claiming that it has an "accelerometer".
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Ambassador Kosh Naranek, Babylon 5
Or else they expect the developers to already know about the new features through their ADC contracts (and NDC disclosures).
Mod point free since 2001
I suspect that the defense for that would be thus: Since Apple itself never announced an iPhone product, Cisco (and any other company in a similar situation) shouldn't be locked out of their trademark by consumer rumors. Unless I'm mistaken, you can't trademark words unless you actually do "trade" in a particular name.
Trading in a product does not guarantee you won't lose your trademark. Trademarks are tried in the court of public opinion. Bayer still sold Aspirin and Heroin under those names when they lost those trademarks. Kleenex is in danger of losing their trademark on the term, simply because people use it as a generic term for facial tissues, more than as a reference to their brand. So even if you have a product by that name, you can lose that trademark if the public does not understand that it is yours only, or if it confuses customers. Try opening a retail store called ElectronicsHack or Radio Hack, or ElectroShack, and you may well lose in court to RadioShack, who's pre-exisiting and popular brand is similar. "iPhone" is very similar to iMac and iPod and iTunes and many other Apple products. If you said "iPhone" to the average person last week before Apple had released their product and while Cisco was selling a product by that name, most people would have thought you were talking about something from Apple. As such, Cisco is likely to lose their trademark in any case and the courts could hand it over to Apple, who holds it in other countries. The legal system is confusing and complex and I would not say that that is the case, but I would not be surprised either. Likely, Apple and Cisco will come to a settlement.
Jobs last words were "See you soon" in an almost wink wink nudge nudge way. I expect there will be some other venue where Apple will debut the rest of the Leopard features in the next few months.
As a phone and media player, this is a cpable device. It also scores big regarding interface and controls. As a web browser, however, it's still a bit stunted. There's only so much you can do with a 320x480 screen, especially at such high dpi. What would have been cool is a tiny projector on the top, which could display an SVGA output at a dozen lumens. Apparently, such a feature is already in the works, so maybe V2. With such a feature, an iPhone could truly replace just about everything.
I can only wonder what the phone of 2020 will do.
In the end, it a cross between a TiVo and wireless transmitter still requiring the another expensive piece of hardware to use. This seems to be aimed at the consumer looking for a simple all-in-one media solution and even syncing between two pieces of equipment can be too complex for those who still "break off the cup holder" on their old desktops, as it were.
However, with the small form factor, and the rumors about TiVo To Go, I imagine it's only a matter of time before they toss in the few parts missing from the Mac Mini, and maybe a wireless keyboard and mouse/stylus for direct downloads to the Apple TV from the iTMS. Could this be a rebirth of WebTV fueled by the momentum of Apple and hipster culture?
Moreover, there are things you can infer from the clever use of Apple Remote Desktop to show the split screen of The Steve operating his iPhone in his hand in real time, and a stabilized display of what he was seeing.
In other words, every news outlet will equip it's entire staff with one of these, and the racks of XServes needed to enable this functionality.
And Emergency Responders.
And Doctors.
And Salespeople.
Etc. Etc. Ad infinitum.
All it takes is some imagingation. Apple has that. Microsoft used to.
I purchased a Danger Hiptop (T-Mobile Sidekick) back in the day because I needed (wanted!) a real web browser and Internet ability (SSH, chat, etc.) Also because they said you could develop Java apps for it. Well, the Java development didn't really work out (you can't install your own software. Grrr) but the Internet connectivity did. And I loved it.
I then upgraded to the Sidekick II - color screen, better radio, speakerphone, etc. and all was right with the world. However, I got tired of still not being able to develop my own software and being left out of all the other goodies that are not provided by T-Mobile (i.e. Google Maps). I was reasonably happy with T-Mobile but didn't like the fact that they controlled the system with an iron fist.
Finally, my patience has been rewarded! The Apple iPhone looks like the answer to all my hopes and dreams for a mobile device. I used to have, and love, a Newton MessagePad 120 but it fell down the stairs one day and broke. I think this will be the ultimate mobile device and I am saving my pennies right now to purchase one. And just for the record, I don't think a $350 premium over an 8GB iPod Nano is too much to ask for all the functionality this thing brings to the table.
My only question is: will we be able to develop software for it? And if so, will we be able to install our own stuff? I really would like to be able to SSH into my work machines, but they are behind a VPN. Can I install a proxy and get to them? What about just plain old SSH access? Hell, can I run OS X's Terminal app on it?
KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
>It uses a touch screen with a new form of input control
Let me guess... touch?
No, wait. That's not a new form of input control for a touch screen, is it?
Let me guess... it's what you touch the screen with that's different...
I think indirectly we did learn something about Leopard. Since the iPhone will be available in June, and will be running Mac OS X, that will amost certainly be Leopard, although probably a lite/embedded/CE version. Still, I expect that a lot of the stuff they had to develop for the iPhone will also be included in the 'big' version, both in/as applications and stuff for developers.
I recall seeing a story before, this one:
: p2pnet.net/index.php%3Fpage%3Dcomment%26story%3D51 85%26comment%3D15123+apple+tablet+nipper+patent&hl =en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:0XUFkJuF1RsJ
It seems to me Steve Jobs is in fact doing what that story author was ranting about. The Apple cell phone looks like the stuff talked about back in that story, with the exceptionb of being scaled down to a smaller form factor.
I wonder whether Jobs is in fact stealing from that person or whether he's really secretly working for Jobs?????
I'd say that Jobs is indeed tryimg to attack Microsoft, albeit from behind its new cell phone, which is just a thinly veiled pre-cursor to an Apple Tablet of some form and size. Testing the water perhaps to see what he can get away with, perhaps. Aren't you in enough trouble already Steve? You should be grateful you greased past those pesky Feds.
Excellent post, thanks.
On a different note, this is the first time I have visited Slashdot in a great while. Thanks to a Google News link I return, like a salmon, to find that nothing has changed in the years I've been away. Geeks are still quick to point out how everything will fail due to some minor flaw that only they are smart enough to notice, totally unaware that most normals not only noticed it before they did, but don't find it quite the insurmountable obstacle geeks do, because normals are normal and geeks are painfully geeky.
I'm also pleased to see that the trolling continues unabated. Sadly, no crapflooding that I can see beyond the normal regurgitation of lame jokes.
Also, I intend to purchase one of these cellular telephone handsets. I can see why the tyical geek wouldn't though, it would probably take more whining than they can squeeze out between Cheet-O handfuls to get their parents to cough up that kind of cash.
Cunning linguists
Okay. I read Danathar's post as though there was a hypothetical situation that Apple could have walked away and by walking away not use the iPhone name because an agreement was never made, but Cisco could still sue them, which didn't make sense. I see what Danathar meant now.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
It is priced with a two year contract with Cingular. And when you play with Apple you play by Apple's rules. I doubt they will sell one unbundled.
Fairly nice hardware, but just another example why putting a phone and a computer together is crazy. Once you say cellphone you have to deal with the cell carriers and all they want to do is lock you into long contracts and screw you hard. Computers have hardware refresh cycles as do cell phones and the two are rarely in sync, and neither will be in sync with your contract expiration. Combine anything else you want into an integrated device but leave the phone seperate and linked via bluetooth.
Nokia is a cellphone company and they are the only one smart enough to leave a phone out of their entry in the portable computer/pda/internet device game. That is a clue Steve, and you missed it.
Democrat delenda est
iPhone uses EVDO not GPRS, which is quite a lot faster than GPRS in many respects. The Q is also using EVDO incase you're wondering.
Does Cisco have a product called an iPhone ? Trade marks have to be used in trade - they're not like patents which you can register and sit on. If you have no mark to protect your registration is useless.
I would have guessed that more consumers have fancy stereos with optical inputs than have widescreen televisions. I would have expected a mini-Toslink/analog combo (like the airport express) and an "old-fashioned" mini-din providing s-video and component via a cable adaptor.
Maybe buying that standard definition TV 2 years ago was a mistake.
--
Or just an augmented reality display. Picture yourself moving it around like it's the Polaroid from The Lost Room . It's going to have to have GPS in it anyway for E911.
I wonder if it is too late to get it in for product placement in 24.
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Who is this Micro$oft that my father used to talk about?
Zune? What the heck is a Zune?
Today it is official. Microsoft == (old + custy + ugly + left behind).
It looks sweet. But how many people are going to be willing (or able) to drop $500 (or even $600) for this thing? Sure, all the cool kids will want one (myself included), but how many will be able to afford it or justify it? That's more than a (current) iPod, more than almost any other cell phone, more than almost any other PDA. For that much (or not that much more), these days, one can spend their money on many other possibly more desireable (or practical) products - a Mac Mini, even an iBook.
Judging from the pictures, its big for a phone. For an iPod its big too. I can get almost any phone of my choice, plus an 8GB iPod nano, for a lot less $$$ - and the total package will be smaller. Several hundred dollars more just to carry one large device instead of two smaller ones? Makes little sense.
Anyway, long term probably the most significant part of this is that the device runs OS X - meaning Apple now has the technology to deploy OS X to future devices - as Microsoft has been doing with Windows CE for quite a while now - this will ultimately blur the line between apple's computers and other devices.
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Ambassador Kosh Naranek, Babylon 5
Typical smartphone development isn't like that at all. No need for NDAs or even approval.
But yes, there wasn't any mention of third party applications running on the iPhone AT ALL. It may well be a closed phone.
The N800 is functionally very close without the Cingular connection.
This is what the Zune should have been!!!
Apple
If you think that the iPhone and Apple TV have nothing to do with Macs, then you should really think hard about it. Remember that there will be incredible amounts of press surrounding the release of these two products, why waste other announcements on the media that is already saturated by CES in Vegas. Mac announcements will come, Leopard announcements will come... They will all ship at their regularly scheduled dates-- for most of us that aren't developers, *when* something is *announced* is not nearly as important as when it will *ship*. Apple has shown for five years that they are constantly able to remain ahead of timelines, much unlike the other seven-billion pound gorilla in the room. Unrelated: man, Zune sure does look sucky now, don't it? It will be two years before MS can pack that functionality (read: usability) into as small a package.
Looking at Cingular's website, it appears that the most expensive smart phone they're offering is the Treo 750 for $400 after rebate, $650 without a plan. The 8525 is the same price after rebate, but $100 less without a plan. So the iPhone would be about $100-$200 more, considering that Apple likely won't offer rebates for it and the quoted prices are the prices with a plan.
Other than this, my prediction still stands that it's going to do well within a very limited demographic and poorly everywhere else.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
This is a start. The first iPod was restricted (only available for Macs) too, and pricey. Apple may be starting out slowly, but this will absolutely be the next iPod.
This device has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission... :p
Does 16 hours of audio only battery life equivalent to the standby time? I would imagine that if you can play audio continuously for 16 hours, you can be standing by for incoming call for quite a bit longer.
16 hours is great for iPod but it would be quite insufficent as a phone.
Do you not consider Ubuntu to be a fork of Debian?
No. It is built upon it, not forked from it. As Debian changes, Ubuntu changes.
Same here, that 20 a month gets me unlimited media net (WAP access via the phone browser) and 1500 text messages. What most people seem to be referring to here is the broadband non-WAP usage (like hooking your phone up to your laptop via USB/BlueTooth and using it as a modem) which is indeed around $60/month.
But that's cheap when you shop around. Last I checked, Verizion wanted $79.95 and doesn't have much better coverage.
why stop there ? I'd like a taser, switchblace knife and a bottle opener on mine, of course.
also, some needlenose pliers couldn't hurt. I'm thinking iPhone leatherman edition....
music lover since 1969
I think Apple has learned that if it announces too many things at once then the press tends to ignore well over half of it. Apple has begun holding more special events so it can release information in more press friendly amounts. I'd say a handheld touchscreen version of Mac OS X is a pretty freaking big OS X announcement though.
It has an optical audio out jack.
I have a shitty sig!
No touch interface games exist?
First posting isn't trolling. It's...first posting.
don't get me wrong, this thing looks amazing, but i'm surprised no one has commented on the hugeness of this thing. It towers over my already-too-big Treo 650. You really gonna carry that out to the bars?
iphone-vs-treo
since there wasn't any mention of it here or any of the live coverage sites that i watched, and none on the apple site, does anyone have any ideas what the USB port on the appleTV would support? syncing with itunes, i would presume - like a big ipod, or as an external hard drive. on a related note, on the apple store and main site, they have the appletv grouped in with the ipod and itunes, which makes sense to me, though only after some thought.
anyhoo, it also wouldn't be a bad idea to be able to hook the appleTV to the new airport extreme (802.11n) base station as a shared drive.
or, for that matter, be able to extend the appleTV's storage with one of the myriad mac-mini-form-factor hard drives out in the world. i don't know about most folks, but between movies, tv, and music, i've got about half of my home server's 500gig RAID full. i suppose i could stream all that, but having some serious storage in the living room would be nice with the flaky wireless reception in my house.
maybe sync ipod appleTV?
i'm getting married soon. i wonder if i can register at the apple store?
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
Anyone notice that the background on Apple's website has changed to black?
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
They're conspicuously absent, which makes some sense for a phone... but less for a palmtop computing device, which this clearly is.
Tweet, tweet.
gizmodo had the wrong specs.
Dimensions 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Weight 4.8 ounces / 135 grams
so, it's only slightly larger than a treo.
Unless part of their contract with Cingular is that they do neither of those things.
Since Cingular launched their Kodiak Push To Talk (PTT) network they have yet to release a decent phone capable [smartphone/cellpda] (Besides the new 8525 - software still not configured for PTT). Any word on this feature for the Apple phone?
I have all of those features plus a pull out keyboard on my HTC wizard today and it cost
me all of $50 with a 2 year contract. And I'll challenge Jobs to a typing contest on my "little pull out keyboard" any day. I mean really..what is new with this? That it runs a variant of OSX instead of another OS? I'll be waiting for the real world (non fanboy) reviews of it in operation.
I have two questions regarding the phone. First, is the battery replaceable? Five hours of talk time is pretty short, so a spare batter would come in handy. Second, will you be able to connect your laptop to it? The sign-up cost with Cingular would be offset if you could use it with your laptop.
iPhone does EDGE, not EVDO. EDGE is not "quite a lot faster than GPRS", it's an incremental improvement only.
Apart fromt he looks, which i will admit, are pretty stunning, my windows mobile device does exactly the same thing the iphone does.
It has wifi, bluetooth, push email, can play music, runs skype, plays movies, takes pictures, and has all other functions i would want from a pda.
Apart from the eye candy, i don't see how this is anything revolutionary.
The only thing missing is an Apple ad parody of the Budewiser whazaaa! commercials:
"hey, where's dukie?" *'adds Dukie' to conversation*
I read
IMO, this is Apple returning to its heritage of catering to the rich. There are school children that trade iPods with their classmates for a week (or whatever time period they agree on). This is normally done with iPod shuffles, which are cheap enough that the parents aren't too concerned if the devices get broken or lost in such a trade. And the shuffle is the most purchased iPod by far, because it's the cheapest way to get into the "cool" iPod club.
But a $600 device is not going to sell to anyone but the rich. Give any kid $600 to buy a tech device, he'll pick the PS3 9 times out of 10. And no parent is going to buy this thing for his kid for $600, except very rich parents with very spoiled kids.
Hell, this doesn't do much more (and does some less) than a Motorola Q, which costs $200. This is a device for those that like "style" no matter what the cost. That's good for Apple; there's plenty of money to be made catering to the rich. But this won't take the world by storm, not even close.
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
No, skype won't really be an option: EDGE has way too lenghty time responses... Push to talk at best. If it was 3G, indeed.
The Apple TV is Apple's version of Tivo. And of course the box doesn't have tuner. That's what your COMPUTER is for. Your computer records the program, you stream video to Apple TV and watch the program. I expect Apple will further refine this hardware even further in the coming years but it is a good start.
Why did they call the iPhone the iPhone? It is more like a PDA with phone ability builtin. With Google tools, you got all the business apps you could need.
The only thing I would change is replace that damn small drive with 160gb drive. I'm betting it uses similar drives as the MacBooks do.
\
> But package a computer -- a full blown one running Mac OS X -- into a tiny, shiny device,
> and people complain about a $600 pricetag.
The mention of OS X was misdirection, that is why those of us with a clue ignored it. So it isn't a 'full blown computer running OS X for $600"
Fact 1: It isn't running a PPC or ia32 processor. So forget dragging photoshop onto it and doing 'real work'. Odds are it is also DRM locked because a) Apple is becoming DRM loving assholes and b) Cingular always has been.
Fact 2: It has no storage capacity. It is a freaking iPod nano with a phone glued on.
Fact 3: Touch screens suck as a sole input device. I'm sure Apple has spent the millions to invent/buy ways to mitigate the suckage to the extent it is possible but there it is. Yes for phone use poking yer finger on the screen is acceptable but not for writing. Onscreen keyboards are the worst possible option compared to flip out thumnboards or handwriting recognotion and a stylus.
Fact 4: This thing isn't being sold outright, it is being force bundled with Cingular/AT&T in a two year contract.
Democrat delenda est
Yes, it looks like neat hardware and (from a features POV) nice software too.
But the very fact that it's locked into a particular provider, means that it's possible for it to be locked into a provider. The owner/user is not in charge.
That's worrisome. If they're willing to work against the user in one way, it makes me wonder if they work against the user in others. e.g. Are you able to get your pictures out of the camera without paying to go through the network provider's network (which will charge by the picture or something dumb like that)? I've seen nifty-looking phones find lots of ways to fuck users over, and while I hope this isn't just another one of those, Apple is showing their priorities with that Cingular deal. You can be damn sure I'll be checking for traps before I get excited.
ahh but can it run linux...
sigpending(2)
Used XBOX: $80
XBOX Mod Chip: $50
XBOX high-def AV pack: $5
XBOX Media Center: Free.
Besting Apple's brand-spankin'-new media center on 5 year-old technology:
Priceless.
It would seem that this device is a testament to the company's skill in hardware and software. Have not a lot of people pointed out that this is essentially a Mac computer in a smaller package? This isn't a app layer on top of Symbian or Palm OS - this is a variant of the OS running on millions of computers today. And I wouldn't say that Apple, Inc. is exactly losing money on the computer business. Weren't people complaining a year ago that the move to Intel was a sign of the end? Seems like there were a lot of MacBooks sold the 2nd half of last year.
If your point is that it appears Apple is trying to turn a corner, I agree. It wouldn't be the first time they took a gamble at reinventing themselves, and this looks like a good way to start.
I've lived in quite a few areas, and indeed different countries, and never had poor T-Mo service - yet everywhere I go this seems to be held true.
In the UK they had 95% coverage versus vodaphones 97%, but that's not a vast difference. In Colorado their coverage seems as good as any digital service, and my phone works fine in my basement when Cingular and Verizon handsets scarely work standing on the roof.
I'm one bar short of full service in my current office and got decent coverage in my last one.
The only problem i've seen is that some of their handsets have subpar reception, particularly the tiny samsung ones.
Am i exceptionally lucky or is this an outdated myth?
>I have all of those features plus...
that's a very interesting definition of the word "all" you're using there.
if you don't like the iPhone then just say so. don't talk absolute bollocks about how you "have all of those features".
Screen size 3.5" - NO YOU HAVE 2.8"
Screen 320 by 480 at 160 ppi - NO YOU HAVE 320 x 240 64k-color QVGA TFT
Input method Multi-touch - NO YOU HAVE STANDARD TOUCHSCREEN
Storage 4GB or 8GB - NO YOU HAVE 128 MB Internal Flash
Camera 2.0 megapixels - NO YOU HAVE 1.3 MP
Dimensions 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches - YOURS IS SAME EXCEPT 2x THICKER
Weight 135 grams - NO YOU HAVE 150g
and that's just comparing numbers - nothing to do with design and usability.
This will only go so far in consumer land, where it can make billions it doesn't have anything to speak to.
Won't replace my CrackBerry because it won't integrate with Exchange, doesn't have millions of applications available for it and well frankly, the 5 hours talk time isn't going to cut it.
Cool looking phone, but i'll pass.
Does anyone have this yet?
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Seeing the difficulties Nokia and Motorola is having with the cellphone market I don't think this is going to be as fantastic as the commentary here has indicated. It is a solid market move for Apple, but if I'm a Sprint person happy with my phone and I already have a video Ipod, what will this do for me? I'm admittedly not a cellphone geek and don't give a flying leap about how thin, colorful, or hip a phone is - I want a phone I can hear and other people can hear me when I talk through it. That is all. I don't need a phone that is a kick ass camera... I have a kick ass camera for that purpose.
Breathe deep and let's actually see these things in action. Let's see how it reacts as your face pushes against the screen, etc.
This is not the way to build a lasting empire.
Bluetooth headset, pffft. Where's the bluetooth mastoid inplant?
I'm also fairly certain that it only does "ring/silent" and no option for vibrate.
Which kind of sucks, but if it has a hard drive in there I can see why vibrate would be impossible.
I'm also wondering how durable that screen is.
is that I can probably snag a Windows Mobile device a LOT cheaper soon :)
:)
the iPhone is very cool, but for the price I don't think I can justify it. I'll get a Samsung Blackjack for $199 which has 3g, a nice screen and internet. What else do I need
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
I'm not sure why you've resorted belittling me. Maybe the practice works in your favor elsewhere?
Take heed to your own advice and read my entire post. You insinuated that forking is limited to kernels. It is not. Thus my reply.
My second comment was an extension of the first. It had nothing to do with your comments regarding NT and NT embedded (which I understand and agree with so consider your ego stroked). The entire point was to emphasize the fact that this embedded version of OS X will likely be a radical modification of the original (a fork). Looking back, the delusional comment was undeserving flamebait.
Cheers.
They sure do, as of a week or two ago! It's the Linksys iPhone, but as you can see on the page there Linksys is a division of Cisco.
I'm sure it wasn't a coincidence, but so they could get more money out of Apple in any trademark negotiations (actively shipping product and all...)
...and if you want Tivo functionality why not just buy a damn Tivo? You can now get Tivo-to-Go for the Mac (yes yes cue the grumbling about how you don't get it for nothing) so what more do you need?
And it may well come with a free lifetime supply of Q-Tips.
You can speculate, or you can wait to find out the facts. I know which one I vote for.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
it is an impressive gizmo but i have to wonder what apple were thinking .. what i wanted was a neat small good looking device that integrates my simple nokia and my ipod mini .. great if it had a nice camera but not essential.. would have been willing to pay US$300 - $400. .. sony and nokia are way ahead.it is a shame because i think apple would have done it better than either of these companies ... i think this will be another newton .. technically advanced and practically too big and cumbersome to be useful.i would rather a treo and access to all the cool palm pda applications. damn . have been waiting but this is not what i want.
this is way too much.. perhaps for enthusiasts it is ok but it will not be a major entry to the mobile market
What's interesting is google / earthlink are possibly going to be putting in free 300kb/s citiwide wifi for San Francisco.
No bad!
Did I hear right that it has a single button?
They are referring to items on the iPhone desktop as "Widgets," and the thing does run WebKit. Perhaps porting Dashboard widgets to iPhone will be a trivial matter?
----------
Cheese it! It's the FEDS!
http://microvision.com/proj.html
You better believe it
Probably about the same time you grow a brain.
No.
I would enjoy games that are played directly on it, but nothing more retarded than that.
Portable devices in the year 2012 will not resemble todays technology nearly as much as the iPhone resembles the Blackberry. We are at the brink of a revolution in Computer-Human-Interfaces - computer ergonomics will be VERY different 5 years from now, much more integrated and intuitive. Think of small and comfortable 3D-headsets, infrared scanning of hand gestures, or highly sophisticated voice control.
Bulky? it's thinnner than almost any phone on the market. it's shorter than most flip phones or ones that extend KB. it will slip nicely in my jean pockets. and good god who talks for 5 hours on a cell phone. that's 300 minutes a day.
They were a bit cagey on the battery life I admit. this one clearly has varying modes of use. PDA mode with screen and CPU churning. Idle PDA with screen dimmed, and cell-phone mode, wi-fi on. blue tooth on. etc... No mention of stand-by time.
I'm thinking they are being cagey because they are still developing the power management software and don't really know. They probably still have wads of debugging code in this and have not optimized a lot of it since it's obviously running on yet another cpu. THey did the same thing at the debut of OSX and then of intel, not beiing totally clear about the power management.
On the other hand, the track record on the ipod is that they tend to underspec the battery life. Or rather they spec it for normal usage not minimal settings like other brands do. So those are lower bounds I imagine.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
It would seem that I chose a very poor example. I always assumed Ubuntu was derived work but it is not (uninformed BSD user). Regardless, the point stands. Many distributions are forks of other distributions. While they may share a common kernel, they are still maintained independently from one another.
http://forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/4284a
Let me get this straight iPhone to get 1% fo smartphone sales.. Hmm BenQ Mobile(formerly Siemens) is going bankrupt at higher than 1% numbers.. All righty than.. Did not Gate shave the same exact claims when MS Mobile came out? MS still has not reached 5% yet goals yet.. Folks its not unique..Symbian has the exact Mach like kernel operation..
Fred Grott(aka shareme) http://mobilebytes.wordpress.com
"ahh but can it run linux..."
No, it doesn't.
Doesn't play OGG, either.
Sucks to be a smelly linux hippie today.
"You've got to config it. And then you have to write some shell scripts. Update your RPMs. You have to partition your drives. And patch your kernel. Compile your binaries. Check your version dependencies. Probably do that once or twice.
It's just so easy. And so simple. I don't know why everyone doesn't run Linux."
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
Okay, really...I understand...but I will hate Apple for this.
Cingular = only major GSM provider in USA (also = suckage)
I mean, I understand why Apple would go with a GSM provider first since Europe is GSM and this allows them to make one phone to sell in two markets.
But man, for a phone that downloads I'd think they'd be better off with a CDMA carrier (Sprint or Verizon with their EvDO). Verizon desperately needs a good phone. Currently, most all of Verizon's phones are suckage. But I imagine Verizon would see it as competition for their VCast. (Verizon sadly is a bit too greedy. They've got one if not the best network in the world. Fast, everywhere...even in the middle of corn fields, and reliable. But I imagine Sprint would have been a good choice.
So I hear a 2-yr exclusive agreement. WTF was Apple thinking. This will be great for Cingular but suck for Apple. 2 yrs in the tech gadget world is like 20 yrs in the auto industry.
Sucks...I'd love to see this phone available for other carriers. But they just did an iPaq. Who released their phone for one carrier. It didn't do so well. Had it been available for Verizon I'd have bought it. I think these businesses fail to realize that it's the network that tends to be the biggest draw not the cell phones itself. Mainly because most of us don't want to dish out $195 to cancel our service early and then dish out another $250 on a new gadget phone.
*sighs*
Well hopefully Apple will release the new iPod. I've refused to buy an iPod until a) it's widescreen b) 100gig
All of a sudden, my new 80 gig black video iPod seems a little less shiny. Oh well, maybe my wife will like it.
Wouldn't it be cool to be able to see http://www.grapheety.com with the iPhone. Actually useful maps. You could even use it like a dating service! haha.
Yes, but once released I can get the thing up in running in a few minutes. Not to mention, let me see you play media from iTunes on your crapbox.
Stop spreading FUD. My latest GSM phone, made by Sony-Ericsson, has excellent sound quality, just as good as any Verizon phone I've had the chance to use. There is no advantage to using CDMA unless you use the EVDO high-speed internet, which is currently faster than GSM/EDGE. Verizon in particular is a terrible company that locks down their phones and doesn't let you sync to your computer or download from the net. Screw Verizon, screw them right in the ear!
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
...so why wouldn't Skype be an option? EDGE may be too slow, but WiFi works great and as others have pointed out it is rapidly expanding with free city-wide WiFi access in many US cities. Or your house. I'm guessing that if Apple doesn't include VoIP feature as standard it will be hacked out in less than a week once released.
God I'm looking forward to this. I just scheduled a trip to MacWorld to check it out in person...
Yeah, will NeoOffice be as much of a pig on the iPhone as it is on a Mac ?
http://vlabs.vidavee.com/free4all/index.php?p=show &id=1704&type=mostrecent&page=1w &id=1703&type=mostrecent&page=1w &id=1706&type=mostrecent&page=1w &id=1705&type=mostrecent&page=1
http://vlabs.vidavee.com/free4all/index.php?p=sho
http://vlabs.vidavee.com/free4all/index.php?p=sho
http://vlabs.vidavee.com/free4all/index.php?p=sho
Superb Hosting
Man. I'm totally bummed out. I'm with you that the phone is cool, but it's also not really applicable to me. I want deets about Leopard! It's scary that there was no computer related announcements from apple at all.
I hope they offer "sosumi" as a ringtone...
I read it can do IMAP, but what about full OTA Exchange sync-ing? Calendar, Contacts and DirectPush Email?
Invoicing, Time Tracking, Reporting
The only major question in my mind is: How resistant to scratches is the screen?!?! If it scratches easily, the problems with the video ipods will pale in comparison...
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Is it locked or they just won't market it without a Cingular plan? Cause I'd buy it and then switch SIM cards with my current phone...
Didn't I read it has a 2MP camera, too? That's better than most cameraphones sold in the US. Shouldn't be too difficult to do crappy video capture with it too...
"the iphone is cingular only"
/. is mainly a US-centric site, but considering that 'Cingular' doesn't operate in Europe or elsewhere (AFAIK), how is this being handled for other parts of the world? Can anyone help out?
I realise that
It's Quad Band GSM so as long as Apple sells an unlocked version you should be able to use it (and could in theory buy a Cingular one and use it anywhere if you have piles of money to burn on phone bills); although I'm not sure how the EDGE data network works outside the US - so I don't know if data will work.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Screw the tuner card. I can get an EyeTV box for the main computer. What I want is support for closed captioning in AppleTV and stuff I download from the iTunes store.
In my house, this product might as well be a paperweight without CC support.
The name change is just a formality. The word "Computer" was tacked on decades ago during the Beatles dispute, and now they can resolve it due to the settlement.
Apple wouldn't have spent the resources transitioning their operating system, software, and hardware to the Intel platform if they weren't too sure about sticking to it five years from now. The iPhone announcement was just so huge that everything else would get drowned out. The Apple TV is lucky to get the coverage it's getting; that iPhone is the awesome.
"Sufferin' succotash."
Collapse would make a great iPhone app, until you break the screen of course...
No 3G. Less standby than a Nokia E71.
Well, they didn't claim that it was a full install of the desktop version of OSX. It could very well use the same kernel and many of the same components, be the same operating system, but just be stripped down for this particular device. I really hope so. I'm hoping that it will be possible to get access to things like a bash prompt and ssh. Hopefully, Apple will provide good development kits so that, even if they don't include some of that functionality out of the box, someone else can.
It looked good in the demo, but if it doesn't resist dirt and oil pretty well it will become pretty unusable. I hope they have that and the scratch problem worked out.
Ok,
I can see the slashdot/mac crowd is already coming up with creative ideas. Using this as a game system is a little far out. I mean come on using this as a wii type controller sounds cool until it takes a little flight out of your oily hands. However I think the real potential is in the car.
Many cars already have iPod integration now imagine if they had iphone integration. All you do is plug the iPhone presumably through the same type of connector as the ipod. It will automatically work as the iPod does but also now will plug into the handsfree system of your car. That would be really sweet.
The icing on the cake would be if there was a OSX interface for your car central dashboard. There are already many people with touch screen devices. Now the iPhone becomes the enabling point for the whole car experience. With a navigation widget and your own custom built widgets you can automatically get a nav system and any thing else the creative Mac Widget community comes up with.
This would be a neat idea and something I would definitely like to see.
Now if only it could do something to improve people's driving. Especially in the New York area. Now that would be a real revolution Steve.
Software Defined RFID - The Rifidi Emulator
Over the next couple of years production and sales will ramp up, prices will drop and its memory capacity will increase. If in that time the iPhone becomes as successful, popular and iconic as the iPod; then Microsoft will be faced with 50+ million people who use a device with a Mac OS X style look and feel.
Making the jump from Vista to Mac OS X will be a lot easier, as the OS X apps will look/feel very similar to their iPhone experience. This could fuel a halo effect to dwarf that of the iPod and push OS X well into a double digit world market share.
Yeah, about that...so how did Jobs use it to make his Starbucks call then, if it's not approved for use? Or is it just approved for _sale_? How does that work exactly?
I don't have a source for hard numbers but I have read that the "killer" app for cell phones is the built-in camera. Digital cameras revolutionized personal photography, and the cameraphone revolutionized the camera market. So the camera is required if you want to sell a phone.
Can you imagine how annoying someone talking on the cellphone and driving a submarine must be?
Apple is just better at it... they have the lock on the "it" gadget. iPods are fashion statements and status symbols, not just media players.And do you know why that is? Good design. Pure and simple. With the iPod Apple redefined the market of media players in a time when nobody of consequence had their shit together. That is why they are popular. iPods basically are one of the easiest to use electronics you will encounter, and it looks beautiful. It might even surprise you to know they have won awards for design. I recently walked someone through the use of an iPod in about a minute in the dark while driving the car. Q-"How do you turn the light on?" A-"Push and hold the top of the wheel." You know if you can explain something to a complete newbie without even looking at the device, and they get it that quickly, your product works.
If Apple respected gadget geeks, the iPod wouldn't require iTunes (or any software) to use, it'd have an AM/FM radio built in, and it'd be 2/3 the price.And in that case we wouldn't be talking about how the iPod holds 62% of the market and that it is the "it" gadget. It would be lost in a field of products that people don't want and don't understand.
AM/FM?! The sooner it dies the better off we will be.
Apple's just leading the latest trend that cell phone companies started... the gadget is the flashy lure, but it's the service contract and pay-per-use that's the moneymaker for the company.I wish Nokia, or Motorola had done this years ago. The truth is every cell provider out there has released mediocre products that have incomprehensible designs. Why didn't they think of Visual Voicemail? Doesn't that seem obvious? Why is their contact management, and synchronization technologies almost useless? Why is it that predictive typing is such a pain?
The cell phone companies had a free ride in a world of poor design, and lack of innovation. Apple just made every product they produce look like the free phone that you get for signing up. Even if you can't afford it, you know their is an awesome product on the market, and it is called the iPhone.
As for the service contract you will be able to buy it without one, but it will bump up the price. For example the SLVR from Motorola was $300+ without contract.
It would be suicidal for Apple to permanently simlock the phone. They would be cutting themselves off from a big market. And what about other countries? The simlock probably won't be there. After all, simlocks were created in the first place because of carrier subsidies. My guess is that Apple is contractually limited to simlock to Cingular for the first year, and then it won't be an exclusive product. By that time, it will be a "well known secret" how to unlock them anyway. So, Off I go to Cingular in a few months to buy their most expensive phone with their cheapest plan, eh?
Well, if the rest of your iLife is made up of iApple iProducts, then you're used to opening your iWallet and paying out your iAss for everything they make anyway. This isn't going to be sticker shock for people used to buying their stuff, anyway.
I don't think the iPhone should "never" have happened, but I do think it happened way too early. The technology--battery and network--just is not there yet to produce a seamless experience for most Americans.
I think at this point it's almost guaranteed to disappoint a lot of people. No matter how cool it is, the most important thing to any product's success is how it manages expectations. The iPod launched with low expectations--everyone thought it would fail. But with the iPhone, at this point, the hype and the "revolution" talk have pegged the expectation meter for a lot of people. Those people are going to be let down when the phone does not completely blow them away. There are tradeoffs in any device after all.
I'm going to stick to my cell phone and iPod for now. I think the iPhone will be an amazing product--someday. For now I like having the separate devices. I can run my iPod's battery down, but can still make calls...that's just one example of what you lose with a converged device. Another is freedom to choose--I can get a new iPod whenever I want without having to change a contract, and I'm free to choose whatever mobile provider I want (Verizon kills everyone else for coverage in WV for example). Finally most people use their iPod and their phone differently...phones get abused. And not only is this a candy bar phone, it's all screen. You're going to have to treat it well for it to last 2 years (the length of your contract with Cingular).
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
"Way no head less mid-rage mac?"
I am waiting for the same thing, but I will only wait so long. IMO midtowers are the meat of the market. To increase market share they don't have to open the OS to Dell. They just have to build a mid tower.
Not everyone wants in integrated monitor (I don't) and that only leaves the sky high priced Pro and the laptop without a screen Mini.
Give me a mid tower, dress it like a cube if you have to, but give me a computer I can put 2 3.5" HDs in and that has a real vid card and accessible Ram at a reasonable price. A standard low/mid-range computer.
Except it hasn't been confirmed this has GPS. Cell phones required to have some sort of GPS-like functionality for 911 calls, but isn't has good as a handheld. And accessing Maps is clearly not the same as GPS.
Apple's description on their site, while pretty, doesn't have GPS listed. The keynote notes on Engadget do not mention GPS either.
I hope this does have GPS, as well as a decent video motion camera (2MP is for stills, the specs from iphone produced video weren't mentoned either).
I'm sure the iPhone is going to be a lovely product for phone users; me, I'm not too hot on cellphones (or any kind of phone, for that matter. I never did like being interrupted.) I do have an iPod, but I don't use the Apple store (because I prefer not to buy DRM'd materials. I just buy CDs and put tracks into the iPod from there.) So my main connection with Apple is their computers.
I noticed that (aside from the fact that the iPhone runs OSX) there really weren't any "computer" announcements today. Intel announced quad-core CPUs yesterday, and the rumor mill was mumbling about a dual-chip (hence 8-core) Mac desktop; likewise, the mini could use some attention in the graphics area, and the macbook pro still needs (and still has room for) a full keyboard and numeric pad, not to mention a second button on the trackpad.
The iTV / Apple TV... well, aside from the fact that you won't be able to get one for a little while yet, I'm not sure what it'd do for me that I can't already do. Apparently, the marketing went right over my head. Anyone have a summary of why this is an interesting product in a world of tivos, dvrs, frontrow, hi-def dvd and xbox and ps3 and so on? Aside from giving Apple a vector to sell DRM'd movies?
While I'm sure expanding into phones will be a great moneymaker for Apple, I can't help feeling disappointed. Just my .02
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
It seems that the phone, the iTV, and the new wireless station is all they covered.
I can see how parents would love the new time controls and how kids would hate it. Especially techy kids with techy parents. Nothing like Dad turning the Internet off between the hours of midnight and 6am to stop torrents, or to force kids to sleep on schoolnights instead of going on WoW binges.
When they launch iPhone in Europe it's going to need something other than EDGE as mobile data connectivity. The majority of European mobile phone companies skipped EDGE and went straight over to 3GSM (UMTS - 3G) I realise that EDGE was rolled out by a couple of providers in the USA in a big way but I can't think of *any* provider that uses it in the UK. In Ireland one provider, Meteor, played with the idea for a while as it hadn't a 3G licence. Then as soon as it got one the idea died and they're on track for 3G too. The European 3G network are also much more widespread and well rolled out and have fall back onto 2.5G (GSM/GPRS) I wonder if there's a Euro version in the pipeline given that it's a Q4 launch...
"Finally, when I heard all the stuff that goes on that device, I would think you'd want a 30gb version. 4 and 8 gb of Flash almost seems like an insult for something that powerful. I suppose a hard drive would have made it too big and heavy, but still, people carry around hard drive based iPods just fine, and a hard drive iPod's not much different in size from the sidekick."
The 30Gb hard drive will be in the 12", GSM-enabled, Core 2 Duo MacTablet with a multitouch display. Available next September for $1799, plus $149 for the factory-installed AirPort GSM module. Cingulair service not included.
Maybe.
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
Eric Schmidt said "if we merge the companies we can call it Applegoo."
Wrong, Eric; you should put your own company first.
The name should be "goopple".
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
I thought Linksys/Cisco trademarked the iPhone name in 1996? http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6144447.html
Did Apple license the name from Linkcisco or can we expect another IP infringement battle between corporate giants soon?
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
Apple Computer to Apple :
Sure the iPhone will come, and if you don't get it scratched you can use it to waste money on data downloads you could otherwise get much cheaper or for next to nothing on every Internet corner if at all you are interested in it. But first things first:
- iFood: Apple will come out with a revolutionary way to integrate with Walmart exclusively (in the USA) and with Carrefour (for most of Europe) in order to allow you to interactively shop for food and have it delivered at home;
- iFridge: Apple will then release a new food system that allows iFood deliverers to stock up your home without you having to interact; of course, now OS X strength password encryption really start to get a tangible meaning but until then, they will probably have 128 bit encryption;
- iWhere: very new and innovative Apple technology telling you "where" you are, using Google Earth, Google Maps, GMAIL and GPS systems, available as stand-alone looking-plastic thing or as add-on to iMac or iPhone...
- iBike: really a new thing, the iBike will integrate iPhone / iPhoto and iWhere in order to get you transported nicely in a world of ever changing streets (hard to remember when they re-do roads as often as they do nowadays anyway),
- iWatch. This is what the reptiles of watch industry have not realised at all: Omega, Breitling, Rolex, Seiko etc. all missed the fact that the two things that make a watch work (a: precision, possibly by having it remote controlled; b: energy, possibly by using solar power) are largely untapped in this combination except by Casio. Why not have Apple build the iWatch, which allows you to carry information (possibly up to 2 GB! imagine all that power!) and at the same time run OS X, mostly locked on a particular "watch" Desktop Widget application. You will be able to choose between a range of watch looks - some maybe "in license", such as "cool Swatch" or "cool Fossil" watch looks. And you will have alarms! And screenshots! And a 1.2 MP camera.
- iGlasses. After what we already have, high time to get things mounted in a HUD head up display. Place remotely synchronized time signals from your iWatch directly into your glasses-mounted viewfinder; use the power of your iPhone to give you a visual cue on who is calling you? Even if you have received an e-mail, bling, you'll know before you have to worry about it. Ever forgot a reminder? not any more... if you don't react to the alarms, five minutes before a meeting, you can have your glasses to just turn everything to look "DARK RED" to you, so other people will see your red-tinted glasses and remind you "you look like you may want to go to a meeting or something".
- iBed and iFurniture. Many items have not yet been equipped with the blessings of OS X, phone calls, GPS systems, linked communication and electronic life. Large high-quality speakers next to your ears can play your favourite music or radio channel once you sit down and automatically activate the system; then, your electronic iFire would light in the chimney, and iFridge would get ready to automatically move your favorite bottle towards the front door (oh, no, not the access way for iFood).
- iSleep. A new electromagnetic brain modulator will help you to plan your dreams better. Integrated with aforementioned things you may even be able to dream about eating and thus lose weight. Possibilities unthinkable - possibilities that "authorities" and "product sales" alike will love to pieces just as anyone else. Learn a language while you sleep!
- iLanguage. Integrates with your watch (äs isch scho spaht..), integrates with your iPhone (ever wished babelfish was on your phone right there as you tried to speak a foreign language?), and of course with everything else by Apple.
- iPlace. Apple then will start building their own suburbs, equipped with everything required to get the full enjoyment out of the iLine of products. From iGaragedoor to iFridge, from iSkateboard to iTulip, from iMother to iPee, nothing will not be c
The new Apple Newton sounds better to me than iPhone
Yes they are, but they pulling in all the iPods and Phones as Mac OS X sales as well.
Two can play the market share game.
"Call us when the New age is old enough to drink" Beck
Either that, or you're going to have a $20.00 Apple iPhone cover for it (made of leather and plastic, which cost $0.58 to put together), and then have to take the cover off every time you want to use the phone/ipod/videoplayer/os x thingee. :(
Also no removable/expandable media, no mention about the battery access (probably sealed), no mention about compatibility with existing iPod interface (such as docks, car connectors, etc.), standby time, etc. It's got a SIM slot, but is the phone locked? Scratch resistance? Songs as ringtones? Format compatibility?
"Isn't that wonderful?"
Fanboys go wild...
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Overhyped, expensive, tries desperately to do the "I'm so slick/digital/glossy black/connected/digital entertainmenty" thing, will probably have serious ergonomics issues in everyday use, comes with less than useful features, will become a prime target for phishers/hackers/virues thanks to its connectivity and like most digital stuff being pushed today (HD flatpanels, nextgen consoles, harddisk camcorders) provide little ownership sattisfaction once the money is out of your pocket, you've used it a couple of times and have it lying around the house.
The iPhone User Interface is more important then the iPhone. It's can be used in all type of user devices, like DVD players, watches, Tablets, etc. iPhone isn't the new iPod, is the new Macintosh.
WHACK!!! - the fruit (Apple) is the Sledge-O-Matic
Microsoft and Blackberry employees:
Sniff...sniff...I'm going to try and apply for a job at Apple, Inc., and hope there are positions available...sniff...sniff...
Really, really...I'm creative, and deserve stock options.
MSFT and RIMM just had their asses handed to them, and it wasn't chewed out by a lawn mower, but rather a large and ominous intellectual-top-talent shredder.
it says it has a camera... but strangely there are no pictures of the back... anyone else remember the apple patent on the 'telescreen', i.e. a display with light sensative pixels that could be used to take pictures :)
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
What might be most interesting, and not immediately obvious, is that half the applications they showed us were widgets, only modestly changed from their Dashboard bretheren. I suspect that some method for changing the orientation of the app to vertical from horizontal (as the weather widget worked in the demo) will be included in Leopard, and Leopard widgets with these (probably pretty simple) modifications will work on the phone.
D
It is a pity that they didn't come out with the 12" to 13" MacBook Pro as compact MacBook Pro. There are fair amount of users that need the performance of the MacBook Pro in a smaller format. I had used several MacBooks and I own a MacBook Pro core 2 duo and there is a large performance difference between the two and for some people they want to pay more for this performance.
and why I will NOT be buying an iPhone...
Cingulars phone insurance... or lack thereof for "luxury phones".
Phones get beat up, I have gone through 2 Treo's.
Boy was I pissed to find out that Verizon insures Treo's and Cingular does not.
I am not convinced that the iPhone will be durable enough to be a safe investment. Right now my treo 650 does just about everything Steve talked about, and it is an infrared interface to my heart rate monitor.
On the bright side... at least now when I break my treo, I can say "whew... glad my phone was a cheapy".
of course... I will break down and buy one... uninsurable and all... when they port emacs to it.
The iPhone runs MacOS X, therefore it is ... wait for it ... a computer.
I just hope that when you drop the iPhone, it immediately starts making annoying eeping noises like a little baby so that you don't lose it. Perhaps this is something a third-party maker will have to do, but in any event it seems essential on a phone that, net of contract savings, costs more some used cars. (Not very good used cars, but I think you get the point.)
I wonder what the price is if you have already made a contract extension recently, or if you lose the phone and need a replacement.
D
Does this thing have voice dialing? This is one feature I'd need to buy this phone.
;-)
Any indication this is built-in? I'm sure Cingular would love to sell their voice-dialing assist for $6/month but my old phone had this built in. Even new high-end phones don't have this available or only for extra cost (Samsung Blackjack, Treo 680, etc).
I'm in strong agreement with some of the other comments in here regarding the screen. This looks too much like the 1st gen nano with it's 10-minute scratch free screen. Still would like to give it a shot
When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras
Lots of the iPhone features will be available this month on the FIC Neo1973 Smartphone. It is also an open platform.
http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html/
The pictures show what is labeled as an "iPod Connector," looking just like the port on current iPods.
I find the "Patented!" claims on the slides to be quite a turn-off, not because I dislike patents in general, but because Apple didn't invent key technologies like multi-touch and accelerometer-based interfaces. I understand companies need patents, but I consider it bad form to brag about it. And I find it's in even more poor taste to take credit for other people's fundamental technologies.sed to come from; Apple has had 225 applications since 2001, and those aren't all iPhone related.
Many of Apple's patents also seem they are trying to patent already widely known techniques and should fail based on prior art. For example, 20060250377 attempts to patent the use of user interface elements on a touch screen in order to control a media player. Well, Palm and PPC media players have done that for years. 20060265503 attempts to patent portable subscription files (ie OPML) and expiration of subscriptions when the user doesn't listen anymore (a big annoyance in iTunes, but one that has been around for so long that Apple's own software is prior art). Apparently, Apple is up to its old, evil intellectual property tricks again.
(I'm also not sure where Apple is getting the "200+ patents" figure from, given that they have only 225 pending patent applications since 2001, and most of those are not at all related to the iPhone.)
A tanatalizing hint: When you saw the mention of it running MacOS X, the slide behind Steve mentioned all the technologies surrounding it, including things like Core Video.
I don't think Steve would mention Core Video if it was not there for third-party developers to use. This is a huge change from the iPod, but remember that the iPod operating system was not made by Apple. Odds are that it didn't have the power to work well as an open system.
Also note that the widgets are very similar to Tiger widgets. I think that at the very least, widgets developed for MacOS X will run on the phone with at most minor changes.
Steve wants to show off the phone to consumers, so it's natural for him not to play up the idea of third-party support, until it actually exists. Next year at this time, he may well brag about all the third-party folks who have beavered away to create wonderful stuff for it. But the device was secret until now, so that has to wait.
D
No, it doesn't.
Doesn't play OGG, either.
Give it a week or two and both of these devices will be running linux. Especially the AppleTV
What? No Satellite radio....
Just kidding, but I do remember some bickering about iPod needing XM/Sirius recievers built in.
Guess I could always listen online.
If this iPhone thing does for phone design what the iPod did for portable music players, then I imagine I'll be really happy with one of the non-Apple "iPhones" in about a year.
Sorry, but I just am not going to trust my music collection to iTunes. Give me this thing with an open mp3 player instead of the Apple/DRM/iTunes stuff, and I'm there. I know the iPod can play mp3's but I don't want to have to use iTunes at all, nor do I want to have to find some freeware app to get around what I consider faulty design.
Close but no cigar.
I'd like to see this thing, running Linux or BeOS or something, so I can drag my music on and off the storage using the file explorer. Let it make calls and, oh yeah, 3G so I can really use the internet. In fact, forget the Internet for now, and just give me a good phone and good mp3 player. That's good enough for the time being.
You are welcome on my lawn.
" No, it doesn't.
Doesn't play OGG, either.
Give it a week or two and both of these devices will be running linux. Especially the AppleTV"
But that would make Baby Jesus CRY!
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
Millions of applications? It was announced 6 hours ago! Also, let's wait and see what sort of compatibility it has with regular OS X apps. I bet they have something in mind in that regard.
Yes, but once released I can get the thing up in running in a few minutes.
Never used XBMC, have you? It's about as plug-and-play as you can get. The only difficult part is modding your xbox, which can range from very easy to very difficult, depending on how much you want to spend. The really nice modchips just drop in and automagically work (like the Xenium). The XBOX Media Center's only rival in terms of user interface is the TiVo. It's really that good.
Not to mention, let me see you play media from iTunes on your crapbox.
Ah, so this answers my first question. You've never even used XBMC, and yet you somehow feel justified in criticizing it? XBMC has built-in iTunes integration. It won't play DRM'd crap you buy from the iTunes music store, however.
Now tell me, do you think the Apple iTV will have a built-in visualizations? XBMC does.
How about programatic extensions, like YouTube support or Google Video plugins? XBMC does.
Hey look, XMBC can even integrate with OS-X.
If they want a phone that actually works on launch day, then they have to partner with a carrier. There are two ways to do that: Become a private label operator like Virgin Mobile on the Sprint PCS network, or release the phone on a carrier network.
All cell phone carriers have spotty radio coverage and poor customer service. This is unavoidable. If Apple becomes a private label carrier then the Apple brand has to absorb the damage of being in the cell carrier business. There's no reason on earth why Apple would want that.
So they partner with Cingular. Then, either the iPhone flops or it wildly succeeds. (Given the development costs that went into it, anything short of define-a-new-subculture success can be counted as failure.) If it succeeds and drives substantial consumer demand to Cingular, then every other carrier will find a way to have one. Most likely they will all do deals with Apple, just like they all did deals for the Treo.
If, unthinkably, Apple was dumb enough to sign an exclusivity agreement with Cingular, then we get to see what vPhone and sPhone and T-Phone look like (my guess on the vPhone: you interact with it as per a Rubik's Cube, except it costs you a buck every time you turn something).
-Graham
...but am I the only one who noticed that the iPhone always refers to the operating system as "OS X", instead of "Mac OS X"? Seems to me that Apple may be starting to use "OS X" as an overarching brand for its operating systems. I'll still bet that the OS on this phone is NOT "Mac" OS X, but is something related. Hell, they can do 90% of what they showed with just WebKit and a specialized version of Quartz.
I don't know what kind of crack I was on, but I suspect it was decaf.
It's got an 8GB drive at MOST, a mobile processor, and probably not massive amounts of RAM, plus limited battery life. Sorry, but you'll still have to stay indoors to play World of Warcraft.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
I'm not suprised that they didn't have a tuner card - they are trying to provide a new way of distributing and watching media. Besides standard cable tuners are rapidly being fased out, and the cable companies are dragging their feet with cable card, so cable set-top boxes is not a market that I would be trying to break into.
But the other thing that struck my eye is that it doesn't appear that you can buy stuff from the iTMS using the Apple TV - it looks like you have to buy it on the computer using iTunes and then let it sync with the Apple TV. I can't tell from the info if it will "sync" partial files, or if you have to wait for the entire thing to download.
I was hoping that this would compete favorably with the media services offered on XBox Live, but I am underwhelmed. Neither of them is a complete solution yet (rent vs buy, etc) but I have to say that Microsoft has done a better job than Apple here.
The FCC issues experimental/development licenses that allow you to run a small number of devices in a limited area. Its too expensive for your average Joe to afford, but not too big of a deal for a big company like Apple.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
1) It's not meant to initially compete with RIM. It's meant to make iPod users drop more $ on a phone. Hard to break into the Exchange/RIM setup they've got going. I imagine they might be getting some revenue based percentage from cingular as well, because you KNOW this phone will move data plans like hotcakes.
2) $499 is damn cheap for that thing, even with a 2-yr contract.
3) Cingular is the best of the GSM providers in the US. And Since it's GSM, it could go Tmobile/International easily. VZW is good reception here, but only in the US.
4) Saying it runs "Mac OS X" is damn confusing. Add a "mobile" onto the name.
5) Apple TV: if I can rent HD movies for it over iTunes for $4, i'm sold. Do this now and Apple could clobber Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, Netflix, and Blockbuster all at the same time.
You're all thinking about this in old terms. 8GB, even 4, is fine. Of course more is always better, but you're missing the big picture: this has pretty much *every kind* of current wireless connectivity, and some wired.
How often do most people that are the target market for this stay outside of Wi-Fi range for more than an hour at a time?
STREAMING! Stream, stream, stream--and in the background, erase the episode of "The Office" that you watched on the bus on the way to work and download a new one for the ride home. Not necessarily for money from iTMS, but from your own machine! From your file-sharing method of choice. From your TiVo or iTV or MythTV server.
Sure, it'll be easier when the drive is bigger and you don't have to mess with deleting, but frankly I'd rather stream anyway given decent streaming (ie, not Windows Media or RealPlayer). I realize this doesn't cover every person and every situation, but it sure covers the vast majority.
Come on - this device DOES NOT run OS X in the traditional sense of the word, whether Apple claims it does or not. It doesn't have the same UI as OS X, it has vastly less CPU power, a lot less memory, and it almost certainly doesn't have application compatibility.
It may "run" OS X in the same way that Motorola's newer phones "run" Linux or Windows Mobile devices "run" Windows, but that doesn't mean you're going to be loading it up with desktop applications.
I see a few problems with the iPhone:
- Price. $500/$600 with a contract? My Dash was $100, and it appears that the Dash is 85% as capable. Push IMAP? Already have it. Media playback? Check. Web browsing? Check. Maps? Check.
- Buttons. The damned thing doesn't have any buttons. Touchscreens don't count. Do you ever wonder why nearly EVERY mobile data device today has a keyboard? It's because typing on a touchscreen sucks. No tactile feel = slow typing speed.
- Screen. It's big, beautiful, and it will look like crap once it's scratched up and covered with fingerprints. Touchscreens are bad enough when you're supposed to use a stylus.
Otherwise, it looks liike a very slick device.
Its been a while since I've truly lusted after a gadget... I thought that I might have "outgrown" that particular impulse. My cell phone is so old that it has begun to attract curious looks. No camera, no text messaging, web, email or bluetooth... it even has the default ringtone, and somehow that was ok with me. Somewhere in the closet of my studio is a Palm IIIe which I haven't used in years because it never lived up to my expectations - and grafitti really messed up my penmanship. It even took me until the 3rd generation to finally give in and buy an iPod. Upgrading to the video models was a costly upgrade I couldn't justify though.
Today, all that changed. I'll be freezing myself in a glacier tomorrow so that I can bear the wait until June. I am the targer market, and Apple just scored a direct hit.
Now being a "switcher" extends to your cellular provider too!
Cuz seriously, this thing is a PADD, why havnt i seen anyone else mention this. Im so getting one if someone can post a link to an LCARS skin for OSX.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
When I moderate, I only use "-1, Overrated". That way, I never get meta-moderated!
I have unlimited 3G data and 200 text messages, $20 a month. How did you get cheated?
Accelerometers are small, and provide a high degree of accuracy. The wii-mote kindof proves that. The iPhone runs OSX, I bet even that starwars light saber app will run on it.
Another random idea, I wonder if you could implement some kind of apple remote style interface on the iPhone. Display a bunch of buttons, when you press them route the commands via the WIFI network to the apple TV or another desktop / laptop running front row.
09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
More "pompous" than "insightful".
Not that I disagree with you, but it's surprising some of the places where you can get a cell signal.
About 3 years ago I took a vacation to Canyonlands National Park which is one of the most remote areas in the continental US. The terrain is rugged enough that people that don't go with tour companies often get in way over their head. From what I heard, the parks department had spent a big chunk of cash on a radio system for their rangers to communicate and it never really worked all that well. But then Verizon put a cell tower up on one of the La Salle mountains, and suddenly you could get Verizon service all over the park. So now the rangers just all carry cell phones.
Of course your point is still valid in that using wi-fi or cell tower positioning for GPS only really works when the signal you're receiving is somewhere nearby and not by virtue of line-of-site with the tower.
Has there been any word on whether the iPhone will be able to stream music to an Airport Express using the Airtunes interface?
Yeah, I understand that it has the full-size toslink optical out for audio, plus RCA unlike the combo-style on the mac mini and the airport express. It's surprising (to me at least) that they would take up back panel real estate with the decidedly antiquated RCA jacks.
--
Anyone think they aren't going to be pissed when the realization sinks in they are stuck with it until June 2009 as new higher spec units roll out every six months?
Yeah. That's why I'm waiting to get a cell phone until they stop releasing new ones. I also refuse to get a mortgage until everyone's done building new houses and don't even get me started on cars.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
It has a USB port, it probably runs some kind of OSX (since it seems to display the iTunes album interface, front row, and has a local 40gb disk cache). While I wouldn't bet on it without testing, I'd guess it can use the eyetv usb tuner. It can definitely stream video over the network, so it can probably use an eyetv tuner attached to another machine, windows or mac.
09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
http://www.trashbat.co.ck/t12/index.html
Granted, I haven't been anywhere but this discussion as far as the specs for this thing goes, but what processor does it use? Is it an Intel x86 processor? Otherwise, 'running OS X' sounds similar to saying my cellphone runs Windows (CE). Does this thing run 'OS X CE' on some non-Intel non-PPC chip?
Has anybody got boot camp working on this yet?
thanks
I'm surprised that Yahoo teamed up with Apple for the free IMAP push service; I'd have expected Google to be all over that, to go with the Google Maps app.
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
It's that whole volume thing. Wow, all the old people from Korea must be going home, reducing the total text messaging, and causing the rates to climb.
Or maybe cingular realised that they could charge even more and get away with it!
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Very few televisions have digital audio in, outside of HDMI. If one must hook up with component, one will probably also be using R/L analogue audio.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
I'd buy one if it had a hard drive... I prefer carrying my entire music collection in an 80-gig player then resynching every few days.
No, I will not work for your startup
Touchscreen Keypads Suck. Horribly.
There is no tactile feel. I can dial a $20 cell phone without having to see or hear it. I've used touchscreen keypads on existing phones already and you have to look when you dial.
And you make it sounds like Apple invented the keypad-less phone. Did you happen to miss the dozen phones that have been out for years now that lack a dial pad?
I swear, it's the strangest thing. When I ran this guys post thru an MD5 algorithm, the hash it returned was "fanboi"
Ah, the mysteries and miracles of one-way hashing.
Apparently Steve Jobs remarked that "it's bad out there" with regards to mobile browsing. So why, oh why introduce a phone WITHOUT 3G?! That seems poorly planned. Yes, the UI looks sexy, but how about stability? Is it going to be any more stable than WM5 on my PPC-6700? I love the functionality on my 6700, but the buglist is rather extreme and annoying. I've seen worse, and WM5 is definitely useable, but we all know it has issues to overcome. Lastly, the most important reason why I DON'T use my WM5 device as a media player and had iPod (switched to Zune) as my DAP/PMP is because of battery life. I depict the following scenario: 1.) After 5 attempts to reach the caller on a spotty Cingular network, I finally get through to the iPhone user. 2.) After 3 minutes of conversation, iPhone user explains: "iHave to iCharge my iPhone. iCan't iTalk anymore." Yes, I know, GSM provides significantly longer battery life than CDMA. But seriously folks, the battery life on a sexy-looking device can't be particularly good unless Apple has found the solution to the Li-Ion problem. And what happens when that proximity detector/screen lock gets dirty? Does it work with cases? I'm sure these things have been thought of, but from what I see, I'm gonna pass on this one.
Does the battery come out with a clip? I haven't read all 1,200 comments but it worries me they haven't shown the back to anybody.
Most of the stuff on
t-mobile subcontracts a great deal of the cingular and old att gsm network, it recognizes sims and sids and routes to the appropriate call centers.
as someone who was a tech for cingular for three years, I can tell you t-mobile has roaming and local agreements with cingular.
I would say 50% or more runs subcontracted across cingular.
And this is from someone who sat in front of call routing.
Puto
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
I'd rather buy a PS3, makes more sense than this bauble ... cute though ;).
http://www.blackberry.com/developers/downloads/jde /index.shtml
Free download of IDE and simulator. Example app code, great documentation. No NDAs.
There is no need to limit development for the iPhone, and with the business smarts it took Apple to create this thing, it is unlikely they will criple it by trying to limit development.
Why would they? They are not Sony trying to milk a marketshare, they are the iPod company coming to a market they want to dominate. The amount of engineering resources it took to create this thing shows they will do what a takes for a piece of the pie.
Lies about crimes
I want the pink iPhone, just like my Razr. By the way is there a memory slot there?
"What impact this will have on the next-generation video iPod is unclear. Consistent with previous speculation, Nvidia (Santa Clara, Calif.) has seen its graphics processor designed into next-generation video iPods, which are due out next year. In the new video iPod, the application processor will be supplied by South Korea's Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd."j html?articleID=196600513&cid=RSSfeed_eetimes_semiR SS
http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/rss/showArticle.
The iPhone looks like a great device, but no company I know will deploy them....why?
No Exchange support.
Sure, it supports POP and IMAP, but full exchange support is much more than that. Having deployed hundreds of Treos, Blackberries, and Windows Mobile devices, I can say that Exchange support is necessary if you want to sell into the corporate market.
Maybe Goodlink will support the iPhone but, now that Motorola owns them, I doubt it.
-ted
the keynote was 2 hours. in the past they are usually 1 hour, sometimes 90 minutes. while i am surprised they did not show off any 10.5, they didn't have time.
as for Mac hardware, 2 or 3 years ago they announced some big time occupying things at MacWorld and then 2 tuesdays later the towers got speed bumps, or something like that. they may call a media event in a week or two to release the assumed iLife07, or maybe it will wait till 10.5 ships. maybe it is ok as is for this year?
unless i am mistaken the only Mac hardware upgraded predicted were possible quad-core MacPros and Xserves... but that was purely based on Intel releasing the chips and not any inside info. the MacBooks and MacBook Pro portables were upgraded in the fall, the iMac was upgraded in the late summer/early Fall... the Mac Mini in there somewhere too. unless they got a major overhaul, it would not be worth pulling time away from the iPhone and Apple TV.
I understand the form factor of the plug is the same, but is it backwards compatible? Will it fit in existing accessories, like the plethora of iPod enabled stereos, and will those devices, especially those with external controls, still work? I would assume so, but the lack of information is disconcerting.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
I predict this will be big in the USA among the yuppies (like myself) for about a year when something even more groundbreaking is released CDMA-only. I think users of the iPhone will like it until they realize that it sucks as a phone thanks to it's GSM-ness. Although, I guess since it'll be used mostly by yuppies in an urban environment, it probably won't be so bad... just don't try to leave any major city on a GSM service and expect to get a half way decent signal.
Ugh....why the heck would I want to put this in my pocket? Scratch city and smudges. Clamshell phones all the way. Maybe I could put it on my Batman utility belt....nahhhhh, I think I'll pass. I'm with Verizon anyway, so it doesn't matter. Everyone who gets this can have fun with their overglorified iPod because they won't be able to make actual *phone calls*. Cingular's coverage sucks. Doesn't anybody just want a phone to make calls anymore?!?
I want to see a skype client for this thing and that way we can make free VOIP calls over wifi.
Will java run on this thing. Not CLDC stuff, I'm talking the full JSE with Java3D.
What about games? Can you imagen a racing game where you use the acceloromiters to steer the car?
#=-weo-=#
I could go for higher screen resolution. But I'm not going to complain about an iApple product on this site again.
Ok, can't resist. Come on Apple! Dell's X51v has a 3.7" display with TWICE the pixels. Hardly any bigger real-estate but you can actually load a non shrunk website on the f'er.
Other than that I want one. Can't afford it, but I want one. I also found it interesting that Jobs did no demonstration of the camera feature. It has one, and it's 2MP. That's all we know. Woo. How about the controls? How does it look on the display? Etc, etc.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Darwin kernel AKA XNU - a Mach-based BSD single-server kernel.
Darwin = Darwin kernel plus a collection of applications, libraries, frameworks, and kernel extensions.
OS X = Darwin plus the Quartz graphical environment and more applications, libraries, frameworks, and kernel extensions.
It's all very modular. Stripping it down is not at all difficult.
Dave Hamilton, co-publisher of an Apple news Web site called the Mac Observer, said most of the functions Jobs displayed are available on other products.
"I'd say about 80 percent of the features that were talked about today are available on a Treo," he said, "but Jobs is so good at standing on a stage and making you think he invented it."
'' Anyone know if it's a removable battery? ''
Of course it is removable. But I think it is not user-replacable.
Leopard is still on schedule to ship in 1Q2007, as has been stated numerous times by Apple
;-)
Actually, Steve said "Spring 2007", not "Q1 2007".
Spring ends June 21st.
When this shows up in Europe by the end of the year, there will be even more EU regulations preventing tying a phone to a contract. Any phone offered with a contract or tied to a single provider must also be available unlocked without any service or contract. So you can just pay more for an unlocked phone and put your existing SIM into the phone.
It will be interesting to see how Apple licenses the interfaces to their features (like random access voicemail) to carriers in Europe.
By June we'll know if us Europeans can pop on over to NY and buy one without a service and bring it back unlocked. Certainly by next December unlocked phones will be on the market in Europe.
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
Does anyone know details of iphone's support for apple lossless and filemaker pro.
The announcements about Leopard were SO COOL that they had to mind-wipe everyone afterwards.
The articles and the banner behind Steve Jobs seem to indicate that they will in fact use the name iPhone. /. just had a discussion with regard to the name as being a trade mark now belonging to Cisco Systems, Inc. Nowhere in the article did it indicate what legal/(business?) arrangement has been made with regard to use of the name "iPhone".
./ about a month ago and made a splash across many media websites/outlets?
Does anyone have further information about the obvious discrepancy between this story and a similar one that ran on
I would be interested to know Cisco's stance with regard to this issue and what sort of arrangement the companies have reach with regard with respect to use of this name by Apple.
It's already been 5 years and they STILL haven't gotten half the stuff working like they planned.
Here's a higher bitrate version of the keynote stream. This link doesn't seem to be on the Apple site at the moment.
8 48125_1_650_ref.mov
http://stream.qtv.apple.com/events/jan/j47d52oo/8
I'm not sure how the EDGE data network works outside the US - so I don't know if data will work.
In Europe we use GPRS for low speed (out of city) traffic and WCDMA (3G) for city browsing. Never heard of EDGE but if it doesn't implement those two as well it'll just be an expensive brick+phone in the UK, given that it's supposed to be a computer too.
We also rely on bluetooth internet for a lot of connectivity stuff so I hope it's got that one..
Now if the damned thing wasn't black with white buttons. Looks like a Sinclair Calculator.
You obviously don't understand Apple's business model. These things can be added later, then new _and_ existing owners will want it. That way they can sell two of them to those willing to pay twice. Consider how many interface changes the iPod went through; I believe Apple knew all along that the current generation of click wheel was the best, but they took a roundabout course in order to sell more iPods. Basically, Apple doesn't show you all the cards they're holding. Keeping their hole cards and secret makes them more money.
I can think of a few possible explanations for the lack of Leopard in the keynote:
You have Media Net Unlimited ($19.99) which isn't elligible on PDA's anymore, those require a $39.99 plan.
Cingular has rearranged features to be restricted to certain types of phones. So a new account with the iPhone will be restricted to PDA data plans which are much more expensive. Older accounts with older features can slip through the cracks however.
And you can still get away with it by faking your IMEI but they're closing in on this too. Older accounts will be swept to remove tethering capabilities for Media Net plans to eliminate that at some point.
Enjoy it now if you have $19.99 and a PDA, it won't last.
Yes I work for Cingular and am getting a kick out of all these posts blah blah.
Oh we also got this announcement today, the $499 and $599 are with a 2 year contract. I don't think it'll be discounted at all, like Wal-Mart doesn't get to discount the iPod.
but will the battery be replacable? who's going to buy a $500 cell phone without a replacable battery?
I'm not a smorgasbord.
It's an accelerometer. It (also) detects the acceleration of gravity. You should get yourself a wii controller and some software to hook it up to your computer (see sourceforge). All kinds of fun physics experiments to be had including the measurement of gravity on the controller.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that Edge is available from various European providers. Edge is faster than GPRS, but slower than UMTS. My understanding is that Edge is easily (and inexpensively) layered on top of existing GPRS infrastructure, while UMTS (3G) is much faster but also considerably more expensive for the operator.
I asked the obvious question right after the house lights came up, and there is no public SDK for this device, just like the other iPods. This was right from Ron Okamoto (Apple's VP of developer relations.)
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
No coincidence about the logo design, is there?
I mean, they couldn't have done that by mistake...
Sooooo. It runs OS X does it? Do I have to shell out $200 for Leopard in order to upgrade my phone operating system? Cause only that would make it more awesome.
I have wild swings between early adoption and toasters.
This phone will cause me to dump the Motorola toaster I have now and go for TRICORDER, THE ORIGINAL SILICON!
I may build a Bluetooth Communicator badge remote for the thing.
Impressive, well-designed device.
Since I have a 1GB Shuffle, the 4 or 8 on the iPhone will seem spacious to me. Plus, I go from no screen to color.
I don't like Cingular, but even that is outweighed by wanting one of these things.
FWIW
I am my own gestalt.
That stuff would leak. Anything seeded to ADC members gets out.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
With a screen that big and the possibility of putting it in your pocket with your keys I sure hope it's 100% scratchproof.... Hopefully they learned from the Nano. http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/21/ 1922222
See it from the computing angle: plug in an LCD, keyboard and mouse and I will have an ultra light portable computer. It runs OSX and all my apps on my MacBook will run on it. Probably the next generation of this iphone will converge with laptops and desktop computers. Brilliant product.
More than likely it will be a check-box in Xcode.
3 months ago I purchased a now obsoleted gadget: the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet.
The specs for the iPhone exceed the Nokia N800 in every way, except the screen size - my primary reason for buying the 770 (800 by 480).
320 x 480 is, IMHO, too small for web browsing.
Expect v2 of the iPhone to come in a flip-top version, thus 320 x 480 ==> 640 x 480.
Ok, you can watch videos, play music, view photos, browse the web via Safari, but can you squirt songs to people???
My collection is 130G - I don't expect to put much on it. Plus, with a 5-hour full-throttle battery life, you'll be dropping it in its cradle every day or two anyway...
I'm sold. From the first whisper of the iPhone, I knew that was the phone for me - I've held off on buying both phone and iPod for just that reason. Because every smartphone I've seen (until now) ranges from almost okay to completely unuseable, and I can't justify juggling two gadgets in my pockets.
Why can't I mod "-1 Idiot"?
What really puzzled me was the SMS app. SMS is huge, but with per message costs as they are today (just raised by Cingular in fact) why wouldn't they have included an IM app using the standard IP interface (unlimited use)???
Come play Moral Decay!
I have dropped my P900 too many times. The screen is just like new. I need a new plastic case though.
My mother dropped her phone once. Much less harder than I have dropped my phone. The crystal broke immediately, and the phone was useless.
Right now I believe that LCD touch-screens are much more durable than any other cell phone screens.
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
nail meet head. my thoughts exactly. there must be another conference they are planning or attending where they will drop more info regarding leopard.
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
And it's not just GSM-only, but Cingular-only. Apple is limiting themselves to around a quarter of the market! The iPhone sure looks cool, but eh... wake me up when it costs less than a PS3 and actually uses the same technology as the majority of customers in this country.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
For a phone? Yes, I'd say so.
omnia tua castra sunt nobis
So this thing isn't going to have a SIM card? I can't just buy a used one on ebay after about 4 months and switch SIM cards?
Honestly, I have been SALIVATING for a reasonable all in one device that is actually a good:
Phone
Alarm Clock
Camera
SNES emulator
quick wifi mp3 folder
and the SDA was kinda close, except for having a crap interface, etc... and not having any reasonable buttons to play NES games on...
And I'm jazzed that the iphone will also be a
tv show player
ipod,
and stock ticker
But I really just want it to be good at the first 5 things. And $500 is pretty ridiculous.
Nobody should pay $500 for something as infinitely losable / breakable / disposable / temporary as a cell phone. That just makes bad sense on a number of levels.
I'm as excited as the next nerd to poke around on one and give it a whirl, but I hate cingular, will probably never use them again on purpose. Further, if it's really a little bad ass computer running os x, there are literally DOZENS of cool apps that can be programmed for it, and none of these were mentioned in the slightest.
Granted, what it's shipping with is cool, especially if the implementation is better than the ipod, which frankly I felt was grossly over-rated. Honestly, having struggled with Samsung menus just to change my alarm time before I go to bed, if there is less than 5 buttons to get to that menu I'll be happIER, but unless it is REALLY an intuitive interface, I still won't be all that joyous.
I don't want to be a wet blanket. This thing looks like an exciting step in the right direction, but given how screwed up apple has been with DRM, and a myriad of other annoying things that have kept them firmly behind MS (who I could probably unleash even MORE venom on), I'm really not counting my chickens here.
Especially if they are that heavily locked in with Cingular.
I'll wait until a few phone review sites review it before I go completely ape shit and start saving my nickels and dimes.
I mean, of course Steve is going to rave about it. It's his product. But Steve raves all the time, and so far, he hasn't made one single product that I've wanted to own. I can ditto that with the majority of my friends/family as well.
I hope this time he's really raving about something worthwhile, and considering that ALL my friends and family have a (in my eyes) horribly shitty cell phone implementation, I'm cautiously optimistic.
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
Sigh... and mine was $50 and yours is...$500+ for not a lot more. And yes I bought a couple of 1GB cards for < $20 bucks a pop. You kinda skipped the keyboard.. like I said lets see that touch screen typing sending emails.. hope your fingers arent too greasy when you do! 2mp vs 1.3mp camera? who cares they both suck bro.. and wow.. mine is a half ounce heavier..oh the burden of it. Have you ever used the mda? It does more than most people will ever hope to use.
Hey its your dough.. you want to waste 5 or 600 bucks on something that isnt really much better than whats out there for < 100 thats your right. But please dont even begin to claim that the iPhone is 'revolutionary' as so many have as it simply is not and it is more than likely to be leapfrogged by others inside of 6 months.
1. Cingular is not subsidizing the iPhone
What this means is that the iPhone really costs $499 and $599 (minus the hefty markup that Apple likes to add) not the $800 some of you are assuming by factoring in a subsidy.
2. The 2-year contract and long-term partnership is a payoff to Cingular for doing what Jobs says.
Cingular demanded something to work with Apple on features like Random Access Voicemail, and not subsidizing the phone (which is a huge selling point for service based companies)
3. The price point allows Apple to continue to sell iPods at their marked-up prices.
If you can get an 8gb iPod in a phone for less than a regular iPod next time you renew your cell contract, why would you ever buy an iPod?
Jobs wants to sell phones, sell iPods, and maintain the pay-more-for-higher-quality image that Apple enjoys. This is how he's going to do it.
so.. if this comes to australia, what service provider will carry it? Tesltra is our main Service provider for the mobile network and they are essentially pushing their latest investment into the 3g network. if the iphone doesnt support the 3g network, we get slower speeds from gsm. if cingular doesnt have a presence in a country, then what? awesome device, but these are questions people just arent asking.
Seems to me like Apple hasn't managed to create something which improves upon the FIC-GTA100 (except perhaps in the style department). http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/07/fics-linux-base d-fic-gta001-gsm-smartphone-encourages-hacking/
Regarding iPhone
The critics need to be harder, here is why:
Let's look at what's offered in Windows Mobile 5 SmartPhone PDA's since their release in early 2006, the Cingular 8125 and T-Mobile MDA. Here's a list of technology Apple can't claim as innovative on the iPhone: WiFi (ability to browse from hotspots and bypass the service provider), Bluetooth (connecting GPS recievers, full size keyboards, etc...), full screen video playback (MP4 and WMV), "landscape" view when the phone is turned on its side (the 8125 and MDA models shift the aspect and ratio the display when the keyboard is a activated, ability to browse the full web pages with an HTML 4.0 compliant browser with JavaScript enabled, etc... Mobile Internet Explorer that comes with Windows Mobile 5 does that now.
Truth is, the SmartPhones do all of this now, and Steve Jobs flat out lied when he said none of this could be had for less than $300, you can get a T-Mobile SDA SmartPhone that does most of this for $149 with a 2-year contract, that's a long shot from the $499 iPhone. Is it as sexy as the iPhone, no. Is it as functional? In many ways, yes. But Jobs dodges a direct comparison with his clever line "current smart phones, well they just aren't that smart". Well, they aren't that dumb either Stevie and they cost a hell a lot less than your "too big to fit in my pocket, but I'm sexy love me" iPhone.
The iPhone is GSM? that means it's a G2 product coming out mid-2007 at a time. This is unacceptable! G3 is the new standard, ok. Cingular is working hard on their W-CDMA/UMTS G3 network and it's bandwidth allows for streaming content and other really cool stuff you can only do with broadband. The GSM based iPhone won't be able to play, it will be outdated on arrival and I should mention Windows Mobile 5 based G3-UMTS SmartPhones will be shipping by second quarter 2007 for Cingular, so you'll be able to get a much more capable SmartPhone device for about the same price as the sexy, but outdated iPhone.
OS X integration just means it's not running some variant of the iPod OS, it could be the full OS X kernal that runs on the Intel Core 2 Duo chips, doesn't mater, because that's not an Intel Core 2 Duo in the iPhone, it's not compatible with desktop/notebook Mac OS X software and that was stated indirectly. If it were this would be a huge advertised feature, since it isn't, the OS X runs here hype is really just that, it's marketing hype. The truth is this OS X variant has been highly customized for the mobile phone needs, just as Windows Mobile 5 has. Is Windows Mobile 5 a version of the Windows XP kernal? Well, we'll never really know since it's not open. If WM5 isn't, it's largely on it based on the programming API's for C++. In both cases, it's marketing spill to make a big deal because you can'r run Windows XP apps on your phone and you can't run OS X desktop apps on your iPhone. The iPhone won't be a winner.
The Apple TV thing.
Microsoft sort of stole their thunder when they announced the TV on demand for the mega successful XBox 360. The XBox 360 has 10 million unit install base at this point and Microsoft is making a $50-$75 profit on hardware. Also they offer a very affordable HD-DVD add on drive. So you're looking at being able to get an entry level XBox 360 for $400 and have the most successful next game console on the market right now with on demand TV or you could pay $300 for Apple's sit top box that does one thing. Again, Apple has a looser on their hands with this one, but how where they to know what XBox was up to.
Assuming this is running a full blown Safari on Mac OS X, it would presumably do ajax as well as Safari on Mac OS X on the desktop. Which would mean you can use online office apps for free, like Google Docs and Spreadsheets, etc. There's no reason why this couldn't print via Bluetooth or WiFi, and they hinted that they were going to be doing software upgrades much like the iPod. Well, it IS an iPod, after all.
I'm just waiting to see where it goes from here *drool*
Can the phone device replace my remotes? Can someone write awidget and then make a IR light off the phone to control all my remoted home theater devices? Come on steve get all the coolest features into this thing. I also want it to automatically control things. Just point at my tv and it would scan through codes until it works. Act quickly appple, or M$ will make one first.
Would GPS reception really hurt the battery more than a continuous-transfer Bluetooth connection to a separate device?
Lets face it, most cell phones are terrible attempts to do more than they're really good at. What I saw today with the iPhone was a 21st Century device for the first time. It seems they've redesigned and rethought almost everything about the iPod, the PDA, and the cell phone and built it from the ground up as a new device. I'm not sure the iPhone name is a very good name, despite the fact that everyone's called it that for months and even if Apple called it something else folks would still call it "iPhone." It seems to be much more than a mere phone or smartphone.
Clearly, it's the best iPod they've ever made, given the complete integration of album art, wide screen video, and a touch screen interface. It also is a stunning restatement of the PDA (which they invented with the Newton). The gesture-based interface is elegant and the thing seems to have great built-in intelligence when switching screen rotation, cutting off the touch screen to talk on the phone, etc. Building it on OS X was brilliant, too, since it's clearly going to be a software platform (whether it gets used as a game device or a personal organizer remains to be seen, but I'm betting on both).
Price-wise, it costs the same as the original 5GB iPod, yet does so much more. It's half the price of the original Newton, and beats it hands down. And it's price-competitive with other smartphones.
I predict it will be a runaway smash, just like the original iPod and unlike the original Newton. This is the device I have wanted ever since I saw Spock's tricorder for the first time. I'm just sorry they didn't call it a tricorder, as it clearly has three functions!
Nitewing '98
Everything works...in theory.
You must work for one of those electronic companies that think that because they built an FM radio, microphone, and nose hair trimmer into their mp3 player, that they have an iPod killer on their hands. People aren't against convergance, they're against crappy bolt on features and expensive, jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none devices.
Some of us were rather surprised the latest keyboard change from Apple was that weird one and not a straight embedded Fingerworks number. But apparently they have been wanting to make this new thing the biggest coup possible.
So they did *not* invent this thing. Develop it further, quite likely; and patented it, most definitely (go, patent war flames).
[1] http://www.fingerworks.com/
"Good news, everyone!"
I don't want to upset anyone here - but I think the emphasis now is on the consumer gadgets not the computers - the iPod is now far more important to Apple than the Mac. I think this is backed up by the dropping of "computer" from the name, and that virtually no mention was made of the Mac, plus OSX was only mentioned as a feature of the Apple phone. I think that for Apple to keep reaching a bigger audience it's good for them to be considered a "cool thing" company, and not a computer company. Maybe this is bad news for geeks, but it looks like great news for Apple shareholders.
op er ate ing
A better version of Rockbox and iPodLinux will be ported to this thing 2 months after it hits the public market, complete with hack to install it :-)
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Zune...
called 'dashcode'. given some of the features shown in the sneak peeks of leopard regarding the easy making of widgets out of web pages and the like, and the iphone's capability of showing widgets as what appear to be first class apps, javascript might be the language to go with.
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
It seems few geeks understand that these things are broken to the public.
I spend an unhealthy amount of time on the web but every wap or related phone web service has been an absolute non-starter, you just can't even tell what you're doing. Forget the connectivity you need to sign up for.
It keeps striking me when i watch the demos on the apple site just how much computer must be under the skin. you just can't do that stuff on a phone.
so you can dock it an play it through your apple tv into your big screen! think synergy! ;)
also, since itunes sells, not rents, getting the higher res for later playback might not be a bad thing if you buy it when you need it, (on the road for instance,) and can keep it (at full res) when you get home.
btw, a point not directed at you but everyone else who is complaining about the service provider in question, did anyone else notice the network support that would be necessary for the voicemail feature? seems that would entail a certain amount of hand shaking (to put it politely) for it to work at all. this may actually turn out to be the biggest feature really. I hate voice mail. given that with this feature they were going to have to choose and work with a particular service provider, I think they just picked the one with the biggest customer base and widest coverage. good business move. I'm actually impressed that they managed to get any service provider to allow this many features on a phone.
I have an old nokia on t-mobile now, and I'm unhappy with them. I'll happily move over to cingular. I haven't tried them yet.
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
For a lot of people, the 3rd party apps improve the phone experience. I've got 3 apps on my handheld that I'd rather not be without - Yellow Pages, Gmail for Mobile and Opera Mini. I've seen RSS readers, ebook readers, photoblogging applications and so forth.
How many people do these things? How many are also the sort of early adopters who will shell out for an iPhone? I'm not sure.
I also don't think that it will have an iPod level impact. The functional and price differences between an iPod and its competitors were narrow. The iPod also beat the pants off its competitors because of excellent synchronisation (Nokia's contacts and file synchronisation are fine).
I know most americans are complaining about the price of the iPhone. Well here in Africa, we buy our phones and decide on which provider to use by just buying the SIM card. This way one is not tied down to one provider for 2 years as I had experienced in Europe. $499 - $599 seems to me like a fair price for such a product and compares well to the other high end devices from other competitors that are sold here. The no buttons + Wi-Fi for me is a BIG plus. The iPhone has all that I need here in Africa and I know that I can live without 3G capability as long as I have Wi-Fi., and applications Apple had better pay attention and find a way to market and sell the iPhone here. I for one do not want to get it from a 3rd party reseller or from Dubai but directly from the source.
Considering Africa has had and still has the potential for a phenomenal growth in mobile phone usage http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6241603.stm
Nope, that was Core Animation. I guess we'll have to see what that actually means in this context (same API as on a Mac but with different performance maybe?).
Anyway, it's been made clear that the iPhone Will Not Allow User Installable Applications
I'm guessing they didn't see it as a core feature, so they haven't gotten around to developing it. Could be a third party thing. Also, maps and routing info have to be licensed.
And just how many DS games are purely based around the touch screen? Its an additional input method, but the majority of games/apps for the DS use the other controls as well.
I think V-Rally on the old SE P800/900 range showed a racing game with a reasonable control method, but far from ideal.
Was there any mention of J2ME support on the iPhone? The majority of mobile gaming seems to do a fairly decent job of handling 3D via Java now (look at Helistrike, Ashphalt 3D, etc.), and its getting mature enough to make a viable gaming platform.
That is the case in the good ol' US of A, but over here in Europe, phones tend to be pretty open from the outset. Sure, we have operator customisations on the UI, but the majority of the time you're fairly free to do with the phone as you please.
I'm intrigued by saying that Apple want to dominate the market. Whilst I wish them well with it, Nokia/Moto/Samsung/SE have a stranglehold on the market (especially Nokia). That is a massive market lead to try and take on. Especially with one (relatively expensive) product. I'm pretty sure Jobs said something about wanting 1% of the market.
$500 big ones for that damn thing eh? don't mean to piss anyone off here, but thats a retarded price.. but what is equally as sad, is that everyone who already has an ipod or a mac will already buy one because money is no object.. but if it navigates anything nearly as good as the ipod, it'll probably be worth it.. i just wish it was cheaper..
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
In this thread I want to give you the opportunity to state whether your earlier trolling against cellphones with mp3 playback functionality was 100%-Apple-fanboyism or if you stand by it and think the iPhone should never have happened.
I'm late on this one, but I definitely think that mobile phones which play MP3s are a waste of time. I've never used the MP3 playback facility on the various phones I've had, because mp3 playback hasn't been core to the device - it's always been an ill thought out added extra, and the phone has been just that - a phone. With a mp3 player. With a crap cut down internet browser. With woeful email capability.
My position has always been, I don't want a phone that plays mp3s, I want an mp3 player that can make phone calls - and no they're not the same thing.
That's what Apple has delivered here - a device that is built from the ground up to elegantly and easily play and handle music, handle voice and data communications. It's a truly convergant device.
Robbie Bach Shits His Pants Today.
- Many of us assumed that the built-in USB 2.0 on the AppleTV was for external storage reasons. Why else would you need USB on it? You're not connecting a mouse and/or keyboard or any other oddball peripherals. It makes perfect sense.
Wow, that sucks a lot of ass. No external storage? Service purposes only? How long until some Japanese hacker breaks that one?
I think this would be a great feature (this is what Windows Media Center Extenders do), but Apple lacks a TV tuner/DVR interface in Apple TV's software. They definitely don't have it now in Front Row and iTunes. EyeTV's interface cannot be "streamed" to the Apple TV. It looks possible that Apple can create a tuner/DVR interface and add it to Apple TV later, but tuner/DVR interfaces are not easy to get right. TiVo and Windows Media Center Edition have nice DVR interfaces, but most others are pretty bad in comparison.I'm hoping Apple adds tuner/DVR control to Apple TV, but in all of Apple's hype about this product and Front Row, I haven't heard one hint about any plans to add TV tuner/DVR functions.
TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
Why he does not wear a shirt... ...... the man hates buttons!!!! :)
Steve said that it's got an iPod connector on the bottom. I suspect that it will be compatible with most iPod accessories. My biggest gripe about it is that I won't be able to control th thing "by feel". I usually keep my iPod in a pocket. I adjust volume and skip tracks without even looking at the device. Same with my cell phone. I dial by feel.
$499? $599? Seriously - who will actually spend that much? We all see how the PS3 ended up with prices in that range. Keep in mind that $500~$600 is the price with a subscription service to Cingular/AT&T. I wonder how much it is without a subscription...
I was discussing here at work with coworkers that if it was $300 or less without a GPS, I'd get it and if it had a GPS I'd extend my budget to $400, but instead, Apple likes to go the way of Sony: by reaching for their customers' wallets.
Sure, it has nice features, but honestly, I don't see myself using half of them. I buy a phone to use it as a phone, not a camera, music device, or web client. I make an exception for the GPS, though, as having one in your hand (perhaps syncing with address book?) would be very nice; the rest are unnecessary.
Honestly, though; for $500~$600, the iPhone should be giving me oral sex, too. I was hoping for a new iPod, but instead Jobs gives us this (admittedly) nice product that's horribly overpriced instead of offering us another generation of semi-affordable mobile devices.
The distribution of the Ipaq eventually mutated into a Debian variant. In fact most of the packages were stripped down .deb packages into a lighter weight package format. Any programs which could run on a smaller screen (and with no keyboard and lesser mouse controls ;) ), you could run on the Ipaq. Heck, if the Ipaq was networked you could using remote X your Ipaq application windows over to your desktop machines. So I would not say fork, it's more like the desktop OS on a diet.
My guess is that Apple will only allow third-party developers to create widgets. That said, a widget written in Cocoa can be VERY powerful.
The bits on the bus go on and off... on and off... on and off...
"This device has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. This device is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained." http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html
Once they've perfected the technology, I can see them wanting to use touch screen technology on Powerbooks etc. The OSX UI could start to get very Minority Report...
You can't sync iPods that way either and they seem to be selling anyway. I agree that it would be cool but it's not a deal-breaker for me.
The Cingular only angle is understandable but disappointing. The price, though large, does not really bother me IF this proves to be a highly useful product.
Could be that I have this outlook because I am a long time Mac user (justifing years of paying more?) , but I find the up front cost of my tools to be much less of a factor than the usability, quality and long term cost of my tools. If I am going to spend 4-8 hours a day at a computer (~1800 hours/year), it seems a bit short sighted too look at a $200-$300 price difference FIRST. Same goes for my car and my power tools. I the long run, I am far better off buying one Panasonic drill rather than five Ryobi drills. I paid a lot less for my Rio mp3 player than I did for my iPod Mini, but nobody in my house has any interest in USING the Rio. So where is the savings? I most certainly consider price in my purchases, but in most cases it is not the top factor.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I remember a few years ago when what OS to be supplied with the OLPC was being hotly debated, Jobs very publicly offered OS X to the project free of charge but it got brushed off immediately since one, OS X was a bit of a laggard in the early days in the performance arena and nobody though such a heavy OS would be able to run on such minimal requirements and two, it didn't fit the projects idea of "free software". Which is kind of ironic since they have settled for using non-free(if you stick their original definition) binary blobs to run their mesh wifi chip. I think most people chalked it up the Jobs stunt as simple attention whoring by way of bluffing(yeah right OS X on this little minimal computer) or maybe grandstanding since it might help give Apple an positive image by doing something altruistic. Ultimately he was probably refering to this version of OS X running on these phones.
--
What is pirate software? Software for inventory of stolen treasure?
And just how many DS games are purely based around the touch screen? Its an additional input method, but the majority of games/apps for the DS use the other controls as well.
I only have four games since I just got my DS, but all four use touch as the primary and only input method. I have not used the D-pad or other buttons for any game... I take that back, you can use the shoulder button in Meteos to speed up time, and I do that occasionally in the game. But that's honestly the only time I can recall hitting a button on any of the games I have.
It's really remarkable how well the touch works in games that are designed around it. I was skeptical until I started playing it myself. When I first popped in Meteos I started playing with the d-pad and buttons and it was really, really hard to do well. When I realized you can play entirely with touch, it all made sense and plays much, much better.
I'm sure there are plenty of DS games that use the buttons, maybe I just happen not to have any yet.
The UI is cool and the features are cool. But since I cannot touch type on it holding it in my palm, I doubt it will replace my need for a blackberry. With the form factor, thumbing is needed and I am not sure even with the touchscreen, I will have the "blackberry thumb". Steve was right that the finger is a great pointing device, but the "thumb" isn't.
O this learning! What a thing it is - William Shakespeare
you could not be more wrong. anyone with a surround system hooked up to their HDTV (and that's quite a large % of the owners) will use optical to their surround system and component to their HDTV if they don't have HDMI. i'm planning on doing the same thing, or using a HDMI-DVI adapter (since my HDTV only has DVI and component) and running the optical to the surround system.
Will you even be able to use this on an airplane? Seems to me that you need to turn off your cell phones and pagers for the duration of the flight? Can you shut off the phone part of it, yet use it to listen to music? If not, one of the killer applications of the ipod (using it on a long flight) may not be viable for iPhone users.
And I don't dispute that. I said nothing of surround sound systems.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
I'm a software engineer in my 20s, I love UI design and design in general, and I couldn't figure out the iPod's physical interface from the demo unit at a Circuit City after playing with it for a minute or two. That one and a Toshiba were the only two players at the kiosk that gave me any trouble or were in any way non-obvious.
No user interface is intuitive. Everything is learned. At least with the non-Apple players, I had some sort of convention to fall back on.
Actually, I really rather like the interface on a friend's old Dell DJ. Simple roller wheel dead center on the device which can be pushed like a button to activate menu items. Slick.
My understanding of GPS is that it is the weakest signal that anyone typically does anything with and that it requires a fairly obscene amount of amplification, especially given the teensy tiny GPS antenna that you would have in your cellphone.
My understanding is also that bluetooth is supposed to be smart enough to control power levels, but I have done zero research on this (not much on the GPS issue, but some) and so I may be talking out my ass. Perhaps it was just something it was supposed to do, for all I know.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Seriously, practically every phone either comes with a cheap case or you can pick one up cheap. Or you can slap on one of those protective film sheets. I don't think yours is a realistic objection to this design.
...from Apple for Apple fans.
The phaomnneil pweor of the hmuan mnid. Fcuknig amzanig eh!
Cingular wireless. Less brown than a Zune. Lame.
yes. that's all I'm going to say in all comments from now on.
Well of course there's no way you'd run normal applications on it for GUI reasons. However a lot of the background toolkits have to be there to support something like webkit, mail and the SMS stuff (which looks suspiciously like ichat). So in theory at least you could probably transplant the guts of many applications unchanged, and give them a new iPhone-style GUI (a lot of the apps resemble little widgets, but perhaps they're done with IB nib files and standard cocoa instead).
Of the top of my head, it must have
Probably doesn't have :
So will it be the typical mobile phone development deal, expensive development kit, massive legal hurdles in the NDA dept intended to make sure only select large development houses play and they play according to the mobile phone rules? Will the operating software in the thing be DRMed like the newest iPods so that only Apple signed binaries boot/run? Steve didn't say, and the silence is disturbing.
It'd be interesting to see some details on the 'OS X' which is included from Apple - if they don't provide them by the time it's launched, I'm sure someone will have a look around on the built in memory and find out. They'd really be shooting themselves in the foot here if they don't long term allow users to install software on the phones - eventually these phones will become more and more laptop replacements, and whoever makes a non user-hostile system will win. Of course it's still early days, so hopefully an SDK will turn up for free download sometime after they've launched and people can actually use/test on them.
I'm surprised at the omission of a to-do list or simple text application - TextEdit would surely be a no-brainer if they already have cocoa text views ported for safari and webkit?
I wonder if some of the little controls shown in the videos, like the search bar and buttons etc on the NYT webpage are in fact the new look controls for Jaguar?
No 3G is a deal breaker in Europe. So you'll see 3G on the European model. Not that any European will pay $500 for a phone. But it'll still have 3G. So you can't exactly count the U.S.'s silly wireless networking problems aginst the phone.
But yes Symbian OS phones will crush the iPhone. Here is why:
1) Jobs' 1 button mouse stupidity has struck again: No stylus. You can't write on it. So you can't enter much text. So you can't seriously use it as a PDA. Nor can you write many emails. Symbian OS phones will use a stylus and handwriting recognition. Thus iPhone loses. (No, no one wants your silly bluetooth keyboard taking up more space, we want to write)
2) No VoIP, i.e. no SIP, no Skype. Symbian OS phone will have both SIP & Skype. Skype over WiFi is essential for controlling phone costs. SIP over WiFi is essential for interacting with office VoIP setups. Thus iPhone losed to Symbian OS again.
3) No IM. Need I say more?
Now yes Apple's interface sounds quite nice, but Symbian's is pretty good too, but few will sacrifice essential features like IM, VoIP, and hand writing recognision. Apple's market here is their current iPod users who see nothing beyond "music and phone together in pretty package".
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
Here on Slashdot, every day is spelling optional day.
stuart
"Decidedly antiquated" RCA jacks!?
For analog audio connections (and if you are not doing 5.1, there are terrific advantages to analog audio connections), the RCA jack is still a great way to go. Most high-end audio gear still uses them.
TOSLink is not even found on all amplifiers as an input option.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
More States (in the US) that like to keep their children alive
and drivers on the right side of the road
have already banned dialing while driving,
if not talking on a cell phone all together.
I imagine that 'hands free' operation of voice dialing (which is just as dangerous) is something the little OS X iPhone could handle.
Here's a funny idea -
When you get behind the wheel - DRIVE.
Wanna talk on a phone - PARK.
Driving time - calls go to voicemail.
Your life is on the line, as well as the lives of innocent people around you.
Is the Call more important than Life?
"Cingular's GSM coverage is just as good as Verizon's CDMA"
According to Consumer Reports, this is not true.
Verizon has *by far* the best coverage in the U.S. They invested big, and it's paid off for them. They're the only carrier that people actually like.
Now, I don't like Verizon much, but I use them anyway. The other services are just awful. You'd have to pay me money to use Sprint. And Cingular's approach is best, but in practice, their high-speed network is pitiful, and their coverage is mediocre.
That's not my opinion, it's the opinion of people CR has queried.
I like how your post was modded a troll. Apple is the company that can do no wrong. I am by no means a fan boy of either and I do like Apple's computers and OS but notice the reaction to Apple moving into the mobile device arena vs Microsoft moving into the Console gaming market. Reaction to the former "They are just reinventing themselves", "Revolutionizing the phone!" and reacton to the latter "Microsoft is trying to get into EVERYTHING, they should just stay in their market. I am sick of this". Not all slashdotters but a majority and to cite my source look at comments about each.
You are right, but it takes a compatible provider to be able to see the voice messages like Jobs did on the presentation. Wonder what else should one miss in the switch.
I never heard of EDGE before, so if it is available in Europe, it is not exactly marketed heavily.
I'm surprised that nobody has responded to your question about the 3G, at least not from the version of the page I'm seeing. I'm with you on the 3G aspect. Whilst 3G isn't perfect, yet, it's a heck of a lot better than using GPRS. I didn't realise this until I was outside of the village I lived in. I can't understand why Apple would leave off this fairly major, to me and most of Europe I reckon, feature. It's one of the reasons I won't be getting an iPhone. Another reason is iTunes but that's a whole different thing.
BIYC Records
Other devices can do the same, but they dont do it as WELL or as polished as the iphone does. other smart phones are a bit clunky, imo, and this seems really good. i think it has something to do with the O/S. and with other apple products, look at the design. no buttons, pure multi touch, its nicer to look at and probably use. its like comparing a toyota camry to a ferrari and saying they both do the same thing because they have power windows air conditioning and take fuel. you ignore the engine and the parts that make the ferrari not a camry. and thank god.
The difference is that iPods don't have WiFi. The only way to connect them to something is with a cable. Why should I have to plug a cable into the iPhone when it's perfectly capable of communicating wirelessly?
Right.. no tactile response also makes it more difficult for texters. No more texting without looking.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
Instead of accepting that there are certain trade-offs and short-commings in every single product ever made, including the iPod and yes, the iPhone, you try to rationalize thru tortured arguments how a flaw is actually not a flaw at all. That there are no tradeoffs (this is apple damnit! Jobs! Reality Distortion!!!).
I swear I think Apple Fanboyism is a slight form of mental retardation.
Here's a fact: If you have an iPhone, or a cPhone or a qPhone or any other kind of phone, you will, many times during your ownership, DIAL NUMBERS WITH IT.
And being able to feel the keys when you do is better than not being able to feel the keys. In fact, if keypads of this sort were actually superior to traditional keypads, we'd see them used with PCs. But the truth is that they're NOT superior. They are very much INFERIOR. But, trade-offs must be made. This is one that Apple chose.
Yes, it's a cool phone. But you people are like rabid dogs.
Here's a clue: You will see improvements on the iPhone over the years. This very fact should tell you that the iPhone is not perfect. It's good--better than many others--but not perfect.
Now get over it.
Frankly, the endless applause from people who are supposed to be critical professionals is more than a little embarrassing. Who'd trust a single one of those cheering monkeys to deliver an independent assessment of Apple's new tech?
The iPhone is neat, but it would be nice if Apple supported iTunes on its GNU/Linux brethern. There are two online petitions.
m l
l
http://www.petitiononline.com/itmslin/petition.ht
http://www.petitiononline.com/itunes/petition.htm
George (gk4)
I've lived in Asia and Europe for 12 years, where folks are phone crazy, but only older business types go for a non-keyboard phone. People here text message so much and a touch screen doesn't cut it. T9 predictive text software is also all the rage since it can help you message that much faster. I wonder if this will support it in all its many languages. My guess is that the phone will sell only modestly in these areas.
It's not a "computing platform" at all, OSX-based OS or not, as long as Steve persists in his plan of keeping it a closed system (read: no third party software, no SDK, no hackability).
Until Apple changes this, the iPhone will be a pretty, very expensive toy.
If they DO change it and allow developers to (for example) begin porting the massive library of existing OSX software (and POSIX-compliant software like Linux software in general) to it, well. The iPhone would then become THE must-have gadget that they want it to become.
+++ATH0
Actually, if you look at the Slashdot-post that announced the iPod, you'll see that most users where enthusiastic and embraced the iPod. The fact that the announcement itself considered it "lame" tells you more about the Slashdot Editors, not the Slashdot community.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
David Pogue says that the iPhone's screen uses glass, so it should be much more scratch resistant than the plastic screened iPods.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
A sim management application to copy your details from your old phone into Apple's contacts framework
Vibrating Ring (A must for meetings)
An alarm clock function.
Ability to open/view keynote, powerpoint or word attachments from the email
A screen that can be seen under direct sunlight
SD Card slot for future expansion
A camera on the front for future VoiceCall expansion later down the track
Voice recognition calling.
FM radio so you can listen to live events in non Wifi zones (In Australia this occurs more regularly)
The little silver circle next to the camera on the back that allows you to aim it correctly when taking photos of yourself (sad..but useful)
Stereo speakers to provide decent sound if you wish to use an MP3 alarm.
Finally - I think they believe they feel they have made the right choice using a touchscreen keypad but I have found like many..that you loose that tactile feel. Even the latest O2 Stealth has learnt this lesson and provided keys behind as a slide in addition to a touchscreen keypad...
Without keys you can't dial without looking at the device at this makes one handed operation fairly difficult.
I recommend Apple place a number pad as a slide behind in their next model or work out a way they can exercise the polymers in the touchscreen to provide temporary shape...well I can dream can't I?
No one is mentioning how they left DivX out? The iPod was succesful because it supported mp3s *and* their DRM AACS, and they slowly introduced people to the concept of buying from their store instead.. But now with video they're restricting you to what you've purchased from them (ok fine, it plays normal movs but who has their collection in that format?). With a whole bunch of stuff now that records video as mpeg4 simple profile, I'm pretty impressed with this. Does this mean that H.264 will become the codec of choice for torrents/ED2Ks?
Yeah, I'm sure they forgot to give you the option to turn the phone off.
Pompous? Well, this *is* Slashdot. I figure, when in Rome... :)
Actually, I was going for snarky, but missed the mark.
Because it is going to be a closed platform. No XCode. Which means:
No ssh/scp
No Terminal at all
No vlc
No VNC
No instant messaging
No VoIP of any kind
No games
No newsreader
No RSS
No UNIX.
Does anyone else appreciate the irony of Jobs going on and on about the "desktop-class applications" available because the iPhone "runs OSX," or even better, the fact that the iPhone website mentions "Cocoa" when NO ONE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO USE IT?
Ugh. What a stupid move. Apple could have had *THE* must-have POSIX-compatible handheld device on the market, able to run a huge library of existing (simple) OSX software with nothing more than a UI redesign and a recompile. Instead they have chosen to turn it into "just a phone" and bowed to pressure from Cingular. Disgusting.
+++ATH0
as long as Jobs keeps the API locked down, which he shows no signs of relenting on.
+++ATH0
iMac iPod iPhone iRak iDiot :-)
So what type of event is Jobs going to use to show it off?
A one-off "event" with lots of invited journalists, none of whom have any idea of what it is Steve's showing them?
Or something that actual Mac users go to, like WWDC?
When's WWDC?
Or is he not going to demo it at all? Is it really that much of an incremental improvement that there will be nothing worth showing before release, and if so, has Apple just spent the last 6 months fixing bugs and tuning it?
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Well, in order to get the phone for free you need to get the $60 plan, not the $40 plan, so that extra $480 ($20 * 24 months) is not worth it. I'd rather buy the phone for $100 (treo 650) or $200 (treo 680). But, I don't want the $40 monthly data plan-
I looked for the $20 month plan at treo central forums but didn't figure this out. Do you have any links that might help?
Thanks, I can't wait to upgrade from my treo 180 with no data plan...
My amazing wife - Artist, Author, Philosopher - Laurie M
The difference is that Apple isn't trying to shoehorn a $500+ device into a market that expects much less. Ever look at a phone with 4GB or more of storage, even without a 3.5-inch touchscreen? They're expensive. It's the nature of including a lot of flash memory with fairly advanced Internet and cellular access. Apple couldn't very well do the kind of music phone people were expecting without paying the price.
Sony, on the other hand, likely included Blu-Ray because the corporate heads decided it could force Blu-Ray as the standard for movies by saddling the format with its console, even if it meant a $500 price in a market that it should have known wouldn't tolerate high prices at all. We're talking the price of idealism (Apple) versus detached corporate maneuvering (Sony).