Right - holding wealth != holding political power.
A protest against employers is known as a "strike" not a "war" civil or otherwise. So the two statements are entirely consistent.
Yes, to you and me they are not the same. To some poor uneducated devil, who's told otherwise by some talking pumpkin, they are the same. It's quite easy to kill say a farmer just because you are angry that you don't have a microwave or run-down 15-year old Hilux like his, and when the killing is done state to your peers that now you are the boss (because you killed the "king" and "inherited" his powers) - totally oblivious to the fact that a farm, or any business for that matter, does not make money fall out of thin air.
I might not have gotten into townships much, I grew up in a rural area and learned just enough sepedi to realise I'm no expert. But I did learn that, while more traditional black societies do have laws, morals and value systems, they are far removed from my own, and it would be a grave mistake to presume my values apply to them. Issues like peer pressure, democracy, leadership, cruelty, killing, etc. simply do not mean the same to them than to me or you. And you know what? Why should I try to change that? It works for them - let them use it. But what's good for the goose.... I don't want that to be applied to me, just as strongly as they don't want my values applied to them.
As to you original point about forced labour: while yes, I do not condone one group forcing another into servitude, I think our reasons for saying so differ vastly. And I can hardly compare Nelson Mandela and Govan Mbeki chipping stones in Robben Eiland's quarry, to Kolisile from Transkei coming to Johannesburg to work in the mines and send money back home every now and then. For the record, when my grandparents arrived in the country, my grandfather went to work in some mine in the Free State, leaving my grandmother alone to run the farm in the Lowveld. They saw it as an opportunity, instead of begrudging the hardship of it.
A black one white civil war makes no sense, the whites aren't in power.
Yet, a few posts back you claimed: white people STILL have only 5% unemployment, still fill the top 20% of salaried jobs, still make up 60% of business owners (and the next 30% are Indians - not Blacks).
No comment at the moment on the other possibilities you mention.
Don't believe me ? In 1978 a poll was held at Potch University, probably the most conservative university in the country. 87% of the students declared that they were OPPOSED to appartheid. That was in 1978 already. Ten years later when that generation was the majority of the VOTERS - the system changed.
One of the main gripes I have with the current political debate is that it's an either/or situation. Either pro-ANC or pro-apartheid (especially the sort of system it became when you and I grew up).
Neither is a long term solution. But today it's just Not PC to be anti-ANC, so there's no room for lateral thinking.
Oh, an all-knowing spook. No, I was not talking about the Boeremag, what made you think that? Well, I'll not try to convince you, as you seem to be quite capable of making your own reality.
On a long enough timeframe the probability of any possible event occuring approaches one. In other words, yeah it's possible, and it WILL come - if you are prepared to wait long enough. Right now there is exactly ZERO evidence suggesting one in our lifetime.
Oh, not ZERO evidence, as there are enough reports in the last 2 or 3 months of weapons stockpiled in Natal & Zimbabwe, "soldiers" reporting for "training", talk on grassroots level, talk in (black-owned) media. But yeah, in the end I haven't seen the goods with my own eyes, so one can close your eyes and make it off as second-hand rumours. I'm no prophet either, so I'm quite happy for us to take a wait an see approach.
Did you expect to get somebody of the calibre of De Klerk
I was holding out for someone of a higher calibre and with some backbone, as one can't go much lower IMHO. But yeah, perceptions... As for Mandela, he did what he believed in (which I believe is to my detriment) and the media blew his image up (because it sells, as you rightly mention).
(Long race diatribe, and how enlightened you are)
I believe the black:white ratio is closer to say 20:1 (to be on the conservative side), taking into account the brain drain and the african invasion, which Stats SA seem not to have very accurate figures on. I'll concede that SOME people with light skins (not necessarily all even of european descent) screwed up - that doesn't warrant generalisations. I'll be the first to concede that perhaps a small minority of black people are militant against whites, that does not however solve various problems in the african mindset of absolute leadership (which plays right into the hands of a marxist movement with aspirations to consolidate power, frowns upon any criticism of leaders, accepts self-enrichment of leaders, and expects "the government" to dole out prosperity). Since you are so liberal I imagine the circles you moving in to be also mostly english-speaking, insanely wealthy and liberal, but I can assure you that in the circles I move in most (white) people are middle class, a large part of them in the lower end. Also, of the last 3 companies I worked for one was black-owned and the other two where formed after the transition of regimes - I hardly see any reason for the newly "liberated" blacks not to have done the same. Yet the expectation is to take away from the (roughly 2 million) whites (who are perceived to own everything) and give to the (roughly 40 to 60 million) blacks (who are perceived to have nothing). The maths tell me that in the end everybody (not counting the fat cats in government) will have next to nothing, at least not enough to pull themselves up. Let's just say that since the welfare gap between those who manage to make a living for themselves, and the majority of those who feel cheated out of that life although they feel entitled to be given that life, is still growing, the probability of that event of which we speak not happening, is also increasing.
We got really lucky - we didn't have a civil war (though it was close) - YET
Fixed that for you
, and we got one of the most wonderful and forgiving leaders in world history so we didn't get a destructive, vengeful time afterwards...
Wait wait, when did that "afterwards" of yours end??? Because where I live, people still get killed just for being white. You probably also haven't heard Mal Ema recently. I suggest you wake out of your 1994-induced euphoria.
Where most people still believe that having sex with a virgin of any age, even if she's still on diapers cures AIDS. (It doesn't, guys, just in case you were wondering)
There. Corrected it for you. Though I doubt that the "guys", if they can read this, are going to be swayed.
Where the few remaining whites running productive farms in the countryside are hunted down, tortured, and murdered by the new South African police that just look the other way and call it justice.
Parties interested may google for "farm murders" or "boer genocide" or start at the wikipedia article.
Banning internet porn. Fucking buffoons. Bring back the Boers.
It's not about "protecting morality" or any such nonsense. The SA regime prides itself on having the "most liberal constitution in the world" (homosexuality, sensorship, etc. etc.) but then does it damnedest to circumvent it (mostly in the name of anti-racism) to get more and more control over the population. It's a liberation movement with thorough communist and marxist underpinnings, after all.
Hey I wouldn't mind having an office in a little resort town on lake Lucerne. The South African company I'm working for, and has various clients and shareholders in EMEA, once thought it might be a good idea to open a swiss AG, seated in some small town two cantons away. The office consisted of the boss, his secretary and the fax machine. Turned out to be quite an expensive exercise.
But I guess the issue was about the german language, which they do speak in Schwyz, not the German state. Would the state in which a company is registered, make any difference?
"Medien Patent Verwaltung" translates to the English "Media Patent Administration". They don't even concatenate it to one word, as one would expect from normal German grammar - looks like it came straight out of translate.google.com.
Now I wonder what the German word for "patent troll" would be.... Hmmm, the German wikipedia article has various translations, I like "Patentparasit" best.
I suppose that would depend what the ball game is that you are using your bat for:-)
If you teach "history" with the aim of inculcating some political view (left or right or whatever), then, yes, by all means always go for the widely accepted view (of the particular political establishment that you are trying to favor).
Because teaching something that is widely accepted has a strange way of being self-reinforcing (population with inculcated political view are also more accepting of a certain coloring to history, etc.)
In my opinion, teaching unbiased historical facts teaches the students much about human nature, with which they are able to make informed choices, amongst others when it comes to politics. The problem with social engineering attempts like these are the bias: negative aspects of the favored political direction as well as positive aspects of the opposing political direction are "sanitized out", leaving a less complete model of the complex and sometimes ambiguous human nature. This often comes back to bite the original intent in the shiny metal pants in some way or another, perhaps long after the individuals who came up with it have long passed on. I'm sure one can find a couple of spectacular examples of such failures in history.
After reading through about a dozen replies, I feel quite sleepy myself. And it is only 9:45 in the morning where I am. I should get me a network connection in my bedroom....
I'm still holding out for 1-way glass/mirrors that actually WORK AS EXPECTED.
An ex-gf's father, who is an architect, told me about this super-modern house in the town where he studied that was clad with one-way mirrors. However, after dark, the inside lights would turn them quite see-through. Favourite hang-out for students was by the bedroom wall, no x-ray glasses needed.
My dentist uses digital x-rays: a digital pickup in your mouth, zap, picture on the computer. Allegedly uses a lower dose of rays by a factor of 10, no recurring costs for the film, and his computer system includes some image processing capability.
During a recent stay in a hospital, a radiologist I spoke to claimed that most x-rays/sonars are transferred digitally and he often works from home, analysing stuff sent to him from various hospitals.
On the other hand, the MRI I had taken was still transferred to film to be taken to the surgeon.
When things go wrong, journos are quick to point out that they only report what is happening. That's the academic theory they've been taught, in any case.
Slashdot Mirror
Which is the pessimistic view. In reality, I think it approaches zero.
Gotta love slashdot. Light bulbs running on sunlight! Transistors working when they're off! Lying about the lie detector!
What next? Honest politicians? Transparent intelligence organisations? Intelligent news consumers?
The treatment of arayan-looking german individuals by jewish security may not be exactly the best example you could have chosen...
Yes, to you and me they are not the same. To some poor uneducated devil, who's told otherwise by some talking pumpkin, they are the same. It's quite easy to kill say a farmer just because you are angry that you don't have a microwave or run-down 15-year old Hilux like his, and when the killing is done state to your peers that now you are the boss (because you killed the "king" and "inherited" his powers) - totally oblivious to the fact that a farm, or any business for that matter, does not make money fall out of thin air.
I might not have gotten into townships much, I grew up in a rural area and learned just enough sepedi to realise I'm no expert. But I did learn that, while more traditional black societies do have laws, morals and value systems, they are far removed from my own, and it would be a grave mistake to presume my values apply to them. Issues like peer pressure, democracy, leadership, cruelty, killing, etc. simply do not mean the same to them than to me or you. And you know what? Why should I try to change that? It works for them - let them use it. But what's good for the goose.... I don't want that to be applied to me, just as strongly as they don't want my values applied to them.
As to you original point about forced labour: while yes, I do not condone one group forcing another into servitude, I think our reasons for saying so differ vastly. And I can hardly compare Nelson Mandela and Govan Mbeki chipping stones in Robben Eiland's quarry, to Kolisile from Transkei coming to Johannesburg to work in the mines and send money back home every now and then. For the record, when my grandparents arrived in the country, my grandfather went to work in some mine in the Free State, leaving my grandmother alone to run the farm in the Lowveld. They saw it as an opportunity, instead of begrudging the hardship of it.
Yet, a few posts back you claimed: white people STILL have only 5% unemployment, still fill the top 20% of salaried jobs, still make up 60% of business owners (and the next 30% are Indians - not Blacks).
No comment at the moment on the other possibilities you mention.
One of the main gripes I have with the current political debate is that it's an either/or situation. Either pro-ANC or pro-apartheid (especially the sort of system it became when you and I grew up).
Neither is a long term solution. But today it's just Not PC to be anti-ANC, so there's no room for lateral thinking.
Oh, an all-knowing spook. No, I was not talking about the Boeremag, what made you think that? Well, I'll not try to convince you, as you seem to be quite capable of making your own reality.
Oh, not ZERO evidence, as there are enough reports in the last 2 or 3 months of weapons stockpiled in Natal & Zimbabwe, "soldiers" reporting for "training", talk on grassroots level, talk in (black-owned) media. But yeah, in the end I haven't seen the goods with my own eyes, so one can close your eyes and make it off as second-hand rumours. I'm no prophet either, so I'm quite happy for us to take a wait an see approach.
I was holding out for someone of a higher calibre and with some backbone, as one can't go much lower IMHO. But yeah, perceptions... As for Mandela, he did what he believed in (which I believe is to my detriment) and the media blew his image up (because it sells, as you rightly mention).
I believe the black:white ratio is closer to say 20:1 (to be on the conservative side), taking into account the brain drain and the african invasion, which Stats SA seem not to have very accurate figures on. I'll concede that SOME people with light skins (not necessarily all even of european descent) screwed up - that doesn't warrant generalisations. I'll be the first to concede that perhaps a small minority of black people are militant against whites, that does not however solve various problems in the african mindset of absolute leadership (which plays right into the hands of a marxist movement with aspirations to consolidate power, frowns upon any criticism of leaders, accepts self-enrichment of leaders, and expects "the government" to dole out prosperity). Since you are so liberal I imagine the circles you moving in to be also mostly english-speaking, insanely wealthy and liberal, but I can assure you that in the circles I move in most (white) people are middle class, a large part of them in the lower end. Also, of the last 3 companies I worked for one was black-owned and the other two where formed after the transition of regimes - I hardly see any reason for the newly "liberated" blacks not to have done the same. Yet the expectation is to take away from the (roughly 2 million) whites (who are perceived to own everything) and give to the (roughly 40 to 60 million) blacks (who are perceived to have nothing). The maths tell me that in the end everybody (not counting the fat cats in government) will have next to nothing, at least not enough to pull themselves up. Let's just say that since the welfare gap between those who manage to make a living for themselves, and the majority of those who feel cheated out of that life although they feel entitled to be given that life, is still growing, the probability of that event of which we speak not happening, is also increasing.
Fixed that for you
There. Corrected it for you. Though I doubt that the "guys", if they can read this, are going to be swayed.
Parties interested may google for "farm murders" or "boer genocide" or start at the wikipedia article.
It's not about "protecting morality" or any such nonsense. The SA regime prides itself on having the "most liberal constitution in the world" (homosexuality, sensorship, etc. etc.) but then does it damnedest to circumvent it (mostly in the name of anti-racism) to get more and more control over the population. It's a liberation movement with thorough communist and marxist underpinnings, after all.
Hey I wouldn't mind having an office in a little resort town on lake Lucerne. The South African company I'm working for, and has various clients and shareholders in EMEA, once thought it might be a good idea to open a swiss AG, seated in some small town two cantons away. The office consisted of the boss, his secretary and the fax machine. Turned out to be quite an expensive exercise.
But I guess the issue was about the german language, which they do speak in Schwyz, not the German state. Would the state in which a company is registered, make any difference?
"Medien Patent Verwaltung" translates to the English "Media Patent Administration". They don't even concatenate it to one word, as one would expect from normal German grammar - looks like it came straight out of translate.google.com.
Now I wonder what the German word for "patent troll" would be.... Hmmm, the German wikipedia article has various translations, I like "Patentparasit" best.
How many football field lenghts would that be?
As opposed to the ones that telecommute in each day from China?
I suppose that would depend what the ball game is that you are using your bat for :-)
If you teach "history" with the aim of inculcating some political view (left or right or whatever), then, yes, by all means always go for the widely accepted view (of the particular political establishment that you are trying to favor).
Because teaching something that is widely accepted has a strange way of being self-reinforcing (population with inculcated political view are also more accepting of a certain coloring to history, etc.)
In my opinion, teaching unbiased historical facts teaches the students much about human nature, with which they are able to make informed choices, amongst others when it comes to politics. The problem with social engineering attempts like these are the bias: negative aspects of the favored political direction as well as positive aspects of the opposing political direction are "sanitized out", leaving a less complete model of the complex and sometimes ambiguous human nature. This often comes back to bite the original intent in the shiny metal pants in some way or another, perhaps long after the individuals who came up with it have long passed on. I'm sure one can find a couple of spectacular examples of such failures in history.
Because something that is widely accepted is always true.
After reading through about a dozen replies, I feel quite sleepy myself. And it is only 9:45 in the morning where I am. I should get me a network connection in my bedroom....
I'm thinking, if I where only a little bit brighter, I could have patented patent trolling. Just imagine....
Very interesting - I'm not really well informed in this field.
It would thus seem that a true one way mirror would not be a passive piece of equipment, but active - taking energy to run.
Haha, no, the film was for the initial examination. The one they took to guide the operation came on a CD. Works much better for 3D guidance.
You should see the car my dentist drives :-)
I'm still holding out for 1-way glass/mirrors that actually WORK AS EXPECTED.
An ex-gf's father, who is an architect, told me about this super-modern house in the town where he studied that was clad with one-way mirrors. However, after dark, the inside lights would turn them quite see-through. Favourite hang-out for students was by the bedroom wall, no x-ray glasses needed.
My dentist uses digital x-rays: a digital pickup in your mouth, zap, picture on the computer. Allegedly uses a lower dose of rays by a factor of 10, no recurring costs for the film, and his computer system includes some image processing capability.
During a recent stay in a hospital, a radiologist I spoke to claimed that most x-rays/sonars are transferred digitally and he often works from home, analysing stuff sent to him from various hospitals.
On the other hand, the MRI I had taken was still transferred to film to be taken to the surgeon.
When things go wrong, journos are quick to point out that they only report what is happening. That's the academic theory they've been taught, in any case.
Ein Prosit!
Are they also Green? (Or will I be inhaling toxic combustion products when I use them to light up my Cuban cigars?)