People around SlashDot seem to want to jump all over Java, somehow equating that the failure of applets (which is what you are talking about) means that Java is a bust.
This is not true. Java is one of the hottest things going in client-server computing and n-tier architectures.
Check out the buzz around EJB, CORBA using Java and (gasp!) DCOM using Java. Have a look at BEA Weblogic, IBM Websphere, etc. These have support for JSP/Servlets, as well as COM/CORBA, load balancing, transaction management, etc.
Java is alive and very well in the post-applet world. Having additional support for Java on Linux (from Sun, IBM or whoever) just allows Linux to start to become a player in this world.
As someone who has close relatives in the aviation industry, I can tell you that is crap.
The problem is that the cell phone in the air causes problems for your cellular phone provider on the ground. Your cell phone is not going to screw up the avionics system and crash th plane.
The author of the artice is right when he says that the better technology won't win. It also really depends where you live - where I am you can get 1Mbps ADSL and cable modems for $40/month.
What I am more concerned about is security. With dial-up connections at least you were a moving target - the IP changed and you weren't connected for a long period of time.
Now you have a static IP or a dynamic (DHCP) one that stays the same for long periods of time. All of a sudden you have thousands of computers sitting there wide open and vulnerable to attack.
Watch for it - as more people get high-speed access, this will become a much bigger issue. Windows and even the default installs on most Linux distros are not ready to be connected full-time to the internet.
I did manage to find an article from MIND from 1997 that states:
IDC was intended primarily as a short-term solution. Its functionality has been completely superseded by Internet Information Server 3.0 (IIS) and ASP, and is no longer officially supported by Microsoft.
You could develop using IDC, but are you really doing your customers a service?
I can't seem to find an MS quote on that. However, I do know that MS is supporting ASP and not IDC/HTX going forward. We did conversion work for clients trying to get away from IDC/HTX.
Anyways, why would you develop anything using an obscure technology that dates from the earliest days of IIS and MS is not supporting?
As for my comments about the development tools - Visual Interdev and SourceSafe are excellent if you have to develop for IIS.
In my experience, ASP (mosty IIS actually) have had several problems that have required hotfixes, etc. to get working. Welcome to Microsoft.
IDC/HTX is not being supported my MS going forward. I am pretty sure that support for it is gone under IIS4, and most certainly under IIS5.
With ASP/ADO and ODBC, you can connect to most major RDBMSs anyways.
Microsoft had even supplied an IDC/HTX -> ASP converter.
If you are going to do the scripting under IIS, you are best off with ASP. The environment has some stability issues, and you end up with quirky problems, but you can't beat the development tools.
I am in my 20s with a computer engineering degree, and I got good marks at school. I have 4 computers on my desk at work (well 6 if you count my PDA and digital cell). I develop S/W for a living - I'll work plenty of 12-hour days durnig a crunch. I have 2 more computers at home. I work on a personal website project with some of my spare time. Classic geek/nerd?
Well, I am married and have lots of friends. I play organized sports (hockey, baseball) 3 times a week. I rally my car in solo II racing on the weekends.
What's the point? Just becuase people who exhibit these "mild autistic symptoms" and happen to be smart does not therefore mean that everyone who is a "nerd" or "geek" is un-coordinated, smells and wears a pocket protector.
The question should be "why do x% of these people who have these characteristics also have above-average intelligence?" and not "why do geeks/nerds exhibit these characteristics". There is a big difference.
I have been adminstering IRIX boxes for the last 5 years, including an Origin 2000 for the last 2. I work on an SGI workstation for my primary box every single day.
As you might guess, I *like* Irix, and plan to keep using it as long as SGI keeps supporting it. There are plenty of Irix boxes used as business-critical systems. Many of the top supercomputers in the world are IRIX-based systems.
You have to remember that this guy uses IRIX as a graphics workstation. In this respect, it kicks the crap out of Linux. IRIX also does much better on high end systems. SGI is supporting Linux on lower-end servers becuase it is much more cost-effective and becuase of the groundswell of support for Linux apps.
What I find hilarious is the media reports that the site was "hacked" or "cracked" when this whole thing is the fault of some incompetent CGI programmers.
The sad part is that 99% of the world doesn't understand the problem, so press releases that say "security issue" and "everthing is ok" will be heeded by the masses.
Why can't Microsoft just own up and admit theat they screwed up. And then fire the idiots that wrote the code in the first place!
I'm sure that the IP of anyone even viewing a web page on a host in that network is logged.
Duh. Every time you view a web page on any host on any network your IP is being logged. Apache, IIS and every other Web server since the dawn of time tracks it.
If you are Canadian, try doing the same. Their e-mail is: fund@linuxfund.org
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I think that your new LinuxFund.org credit card setup with MBNA is a grea idea to allow me to support Linux development.
However, it is only available in the US. MBNA Canada also has an "affinity marketing program" - it includes things like NHL hockey and non-profits like Ducks Unlimited (see http://www.mbnacanada.com/english/cards/affinity.h tml).
Is there any chance of getting a similar credit card to be issued by MBNA Canada?
The problem with that is the Canadian dollar exchange rate. Paying tax on a CDR makes the conversion to $US look like peanuts.
That's why I was so happy when chapters.ca finally pulled it head out of it's arse and did a proper website. They aren't as good as amazon, but at least I can afford the books:)
So the LPD may not be a panacea, but it isn't all bad either. People deriding it are missing the point - try to improve and make it better.
I still find that the LDP is very useful. Every time I move to something new, especially something that is different in Linux than in other *nix, it is the first place I turn. Some of the HOWTOs I need may be dated, but at least I have a starting point I can rely on!
Slashdot Mirror
Whoever has been doing this will get theirs in meta-moderation.
You can also e-mail the cid to Rob and he will probably revoke their moderator access. This is definately abuse.
Ah, posting as an AC today I see.
Here's a hint - if you are really so upset at Hemos' english skills, try **e-mailing him directly**.
Posting this here adds nothing to the discussion, and is certainly not "+1 informative", as whatever mentally challenged moderator has marked it.
I wish all of you grammar-mistake police would take this tip and then we wouldn't be forced to wade through this crap in the comments.
This kind of posting really adds to my enjoyment of /.
I mean, I really love it when you point out the spelling errors.
Attnetion moderators - this is what "-1: Offtipic" was invented for!
Get a life.
Oh - and shouldn't that be "leave your spelling alone"? Guess we all aren't perfect after all.
Yes.
People around SlashDot seem to want to jump all over Java, somehow equating that the failure of applets (which is what you are talking about) means that Java is a bust.
This is not true. Java is one of the hottest things going in client-server computing and n-tier architectures.
Check out the buzz around EJB, CORBA using Java and (gasp!) DCOM using Java. Have a look at BEA Weblogic, IBM Websphere, etc. These have support for JSP/Servlets, as well as COM/CORBA, load balancing, transaction management, etc.
Java is alive and very well in the post-applet world. Having additional support for Java on Linux (from Sun, IBM or whoever) just allows Linux to start to become a player in this world.
I have a RH 6 based firewall using port forwarding (forwarding port 80 for some stuff).
I used:
/sbin/ipchains -I forward -p tcp -s server_ip/32 80 -j MASQ
/sbin/ipchains -P forward DENY
/sbin/ipchains -A forward -s localnet/24 -J MASQ
ipmasqadm portfw -a -P tcp -L external_ip 80 -R internal_ip 80
replace server_ip, localnet, external_ip and internal_ip as appropriate. Also change 80 to whatever port you are using.
You would obviously want some other rules to improve security, but that should get you started.
As someone who has close relatives in the aviation industry, I can tell you that is crap.
The problem is that the cell phone in the air causes problems for your cellular phone provider on the ground. Your cell phone is not going to screw up the avionics system and crash th plane.
The author of the artice is right when he says that the better technology won't win. It also really depends where you live - where I am you can get 1Mbps ADSL and cable modems for $40/month.
What I am more concerned about is security. With dial-up connections at least you were a moving target - the IP changed and you weren't connected for a long period of time.
Now you have a static IP or a dynamic (DHCP) one that stays the same for long periods of time. All of a sudden you have thousands of computers sitting there wide open and vulnerable to attack.
Watch for it - as more people get high-speed access, this will become a much bigger issue. Windows and even the default installs on most Linux distros are not ready to be connected full-time to the internet.
I did manage to find an article from MIND from 1997 that states:
IDC was intended primarily as a short-term solution. Its functionality has been completely superseded by Internet Information Server 3.0 (IIS) and ASP, and is no longer officially supported by Microsoft.
You could develop using IDC, but are you really doing your customers a service?
I can't seem to find an MS quote on that. However, I do know that MS is supporting ASP and not IDC/HTX going forward. We did conversion work for clients trying to get away from IDC/HTX.
Anyways, why would you develop anything using an obscure technology that dates from the earliest days of IIS and MS is not supporting?
As for my comments about the development tools - Visual Interdev and SourceSafe are excellent if you have to develop for IIS.
In my experience, ASP (mosty IIS actually) have had several problems that have required hotfixes, etc. to get working. Welcome to Microsoft.
IDC/HTX is not being supported my MS going forward. I am pretty sure that support for it is gone under IIS4, and most certainly under IIS5.
With ASP/ADO and ODBC, you can connect to most major RDBMSs anyways.
Microsoft had even supplied an IDC/HTX -> ASP converter.
If you are going to do the scripting under IIS, you are best off with ASP. The environment has some stability issues, and you end up with quirky problems, but you can't beat the development tools.
Are you an Alien agent sent to earth in preparation of a global invasion of planet Earth ?
I've always had the feeling someone's watchin...
In case you are, what are the steps to follow if I want to apply for special (ie favour) treatment when the invasion actually happens?
Install Nitrozac@home and awaitfurther instructions.
---
...with the same brush.
I am in my 20s with a computer engineering degree, and I got good marks at school. I have 4 computers on my desk at work (well 6 if you count my PDA and digital cell). I develop S/W for a living - I'll work plenty of 12-hour days durnig a crunch. I have 2 more computers at home. I work on a personal website project with some of my spare time. Classic geek/nerd?
Well, I am married and have lots of friends. I play organized sports (hockey, baseball) 3 times a week. I rally my car in solo II racing on the weekends.
What's the point? Just becuase people who exhibit these "mild autistic symptoms" and happen to be smart does not therefore mean that everyone who is a "nerd" or "geek" is un-coordinated, smells and wears a pocket protector.
The question should be "why do x% of these people who have these characteristics also have above-average intelligence?" and not "why do geeks/nerds exhibit these characteristics". There is a big difference.
Too bad I don't have moderator access today.
It does take a special kind of mind to spot that one...
I use an SGI as my primary box. So do others here. We also use Linux in a production capacity (our firewall). I adminster both Linux ans IRIX boxes.
I wouldn't switch if I could - and I could if I wanted to.
I have been adminstering IRIX boxes for the last 5 years, including an Origin 2000 for the last 2. I work on an SGI workstation for my primary box every single day.
As you might guess, I *like* Irix, and plan to keep using it as long as SGI keeps supporting it. There are plenty of Irix boxes used as business-critical systems. Many of the top supercomputers in the world are IRIX-based systems.
You have to remember that this guy uses IRIX as a graphics workstation. In this respect, it kicks the crap out of Linux. IRIX also does much better on high end systems. SGI is supporting Linux on lower-end servers becuase it is much more cost-effective and becuase of the groundswell of support for Linux apps.
It's a trade rag, you you would expect a bit better than the media at large.
:)
They can get some stuff right:
Linux--the UNIX-like operating system
But other stuff so wrong:
SGI revealed that it is dumping IRIX, its own version of UNIX, in favor of Linux
Not!
I was also amused to see that they are running Red Hat 4.2. Assuming they got that detail correct
What I find hilarious is the media reports that the site was "hacked" or "cracked" when this whole thing is the fault of some incompetent CGI programmers.
The sad part is that 99% of the world doesn't understand the problem, so press releases that say "security issue" and "everthing is ok" will be heeded by the masses.
Why can't Microsoft just own up and admit theat they screwed up. And then fire the idiots that wrote the code in the first place!
I'm sure that the IP of anyone even viewing a web page on a host in that network is logged.
Duh. Every time you view a web page on any host on any network your IP is being logged. Apache, IIS and every other Web server since the dawn of time tracks it.
I couldn't resist. I took a shot of my desktop - Irix 6.2 on an Indigo2. I'll get around to upgrading to Irix 6.5 soon...
:)
http://www.tomandian.com/tmp/scrn.gif
Enjoy
"Yes, we are planing on launching in January."
So I guess us Canadians will be able to get them too.
If you are Canadian, try doing the same. Their e-mail is: fund@linuxfund.org
h tml).
-------------
I think that your new LinuxFund.org credit card setup with MBNA is a grea idea to allow me to support Linux development.
However, it is only available in the US. MBNA Canada also has an "affinity marketing program" - it includes things like NHL hockey and non-profits like Ducks Unlimited (see http://www.mbnacanada.com/english/cards/affinity.
Is there any chance of getting a similar credit card to be issued by MBNA Canada?
-------
Here in Canada, MBNA offers credit cards - I have one. I can pay it online through the bank I normally deal with (Scotiabank in my case).
I take it you don't have the same options in the US?
The problem with that is the Canadian dollar exchange rate. Paying tax on a CDR makes the conversion to $US look like peanuts.
:)
That's why I was so happy when chapters.ca finally pulled it head out of it's arse and did a proper website. They aren't as good as amazon, but at least I can afford the books
#7 at Hotmail:
:)
The Multi-Orgasmic Man : Sexual Secrets Every Man Should Know
This is just too amusing
So the LPD may not be a panacea, but it isn't all bad either. People deriding it are missing the point - try to improve and make it better.
I still find that the LDP is very useful. Every time I move to something new, especially something that is different in Linux than in other *nix, it is the first place I turn. Some of the HOWTOs I need may be dated, but at least I have a starting point I can rely on!