I am colorblind and have never had a bit of problem telling which light is lit. If it's the top one (or left if they're sideways), stop. This is US-centric. I don't understand stop signals in other countries. Especially England.
The new LEDs take some getting use to. The Green is very blue, and the red is very orange.
But what's the worst are the cities that use amber or red street lights. This is common among places that have observatories near by. Now a white street light is going to look much like a green traffic light but it doesn't matter because it's green and green means go. But Amber or Red could be anything... esp red which typicaly isn't bright enough to show it's attached to a pole rather than overhead.
People whose eyes have no red cones can wait for the plain paper hardcover edition, just like blind people wait for the spoken edition.
It's not a lack of cones but rather them acting as if they are overloaded... as is the case with red green, and blue yellow color blindness.
I honestly don't know how hard it would be for you to read.
But the point... is why make something that would be ugly for 93% of the american population and unreadable by 7% when you could just not do it, esp something that hasn't been an issue with published print before.
Besides, it's not a disability like blindness which would grant you the right to borrow brail editions from the LOC.
First, DRM of course means "DIGITAL", this is anything but digital.
I imagine if they decided to watermark the papers with faces of presidents that closely resemble that on currency so to trip anti-counterfit measures in some scanners and printers that it could be called DRM after a fashion.
If they did this, I wonder what effect the fundimentalists who burn Harry Potter books.
And, of course, because we're all trustworthy, it'll work fantastically well! Neither I, nor my friends, would ever just copy music without paying for it. Ever. It would be morally indefensible!
By all means... sell a licensed cover and jewel case instead. Trust doesn't enter into it... home printing usually costs between $2000 to $10,000/gal for the ink where a professionaly printed cover would cost less, last longer, and look better. Why should Canon and Epson get all the bucks from P2P distrubution.
Even those who don't pay for a cover will still gladly download a label from the website, which could contain the contact info and serve as free advertising.
For my videos it takes me a long time to design and print a cover... where I'd gladly pay for an offical one.
No I mean writing explicitly telling whatever teacher who would want to confiscate your camera, from the photography teacher.
In my day... it was on the hall pass.
Today... can't say for sure, not in high school... but the last time I saw the classroom he had a stack load of hallpasses all pre-filled out "photography student".
Safe... my left foot! All it takes is one bonehead teacher or security guard blindly following the rules to ruin your day.
The funny thing is, this is all perfectly normal and happens all the time.
I find the concept of 'free' music quite interesting; I mean most music available at record shops is popular mainly due to marketing. Very few people will buy a cd for $20+ of a band they've never heard; even if it's for one song they've only sorta heard. But it get's a bit of press or marketing hype and there sold.
The good record shops play music... and the employees know what's playing, and you can ask for it and buy it.
I'm fond of the idea of bands designating a "radio" track on their CDs. In theory there is provisions for this in redbook, copy protect bit. Like we pay attention with ripping software... but anyhow let this radio track be shared on p2p networks freely and have this be a commercial to buy the album.
Now back to the school: if they had spent the same money on desktop PC's they could have had enough to put on every desk in every classroom so that every student could just login at the start of the lesson, it would have been far more difficult for them to mess around with AND they would have had enough money left over to give every student another PC to take home! after that they would still have a sizeable bit of cash left over!
I can't disagree with you on this... though I don't 100% agree that desktops everywhere are the answer.
Part of the reason that makes *us* cool... us being those of use who use a varity of systems... is the fact that we can sit down and with seconds learn how to use something totally unfamilar. I think this should be paramount in any form of computer education.. fundimentals. To this end I'm somewhat happy they are using i-books... and heck in their abuse of the priviliage I suspect they had to overcome a few issues with file exhange with PCs (note, haven't used OS 10 so I can't speak on that level). On the other hand... windows based notebooks are much cheaper.
I won't debate the choice of product... for all I know they might buy the $3000 notebooks for sale next year for $2000 and spend another grand for new ones. I don't know their master plan.
When I was at school we had computer rooms and/or computers at home and that was enough, infact even those were abused, if you walked into the rooms at most times of the day you would see 90% of people on the net (not working), maybe 5% using the net for work and another 5% on Word trying to get their homework done before the next lession. Then when the admin had left early we would have the afternoon to load up some games and use the network for an even less academic purpose.
Totally... I remember the olden days... getting the other students really excited when I could get the computers to say rude things... and using the apple floor plotter make rude pictures. This lead others to do the same. So yes... 90% screwing around is fair comment... but amazingly enough, it focused our engery to learn something to screw around better... so in that way productive and educational screwing around. To this day I know a few pepole who do CAD... who still can make some nice rude pictures on the office plotters.
That is still something that should be done at home. If the parent wants the kid to have a cell phone, then the parent needs to train and understand the risk.
And schools and educators need to understand if they are not going to allow kids to use the office phone, and there is no pay phone by the school... this is going to leave kids stranded.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be boundries, and i'm not saying that kids need to learn an element of self control. But the number one reason I gave my niece a cell phone was for saftey. No phone at the school when the doors were locked, and no pay phone for 20 or so blocks. But let's say a kid uses a cell phone at an in approperate time... fail them for the day, give them a suspention, and by gally sieze the phone till the end of the day. But as far as lessons to each, having *them* pay for the time they use on a pay as you go phone teaches responcibility. Digital watches were banned at many a school for a time... they were a distraction.
And private school is no different, except at a a good private school they do not have to put up with the bullshit of a parent calling a child and in the process denying an education for everyone else, or the class structure falling apart because a child pulls up a naked picture on their phone.
I hate to say this (that's wrong but hey) but nakid pictures are not limited to phones. No one ever brought a playboy, or their dad's naughty playing cards to school? But I had the common sence to do it by the lockers and not inside class, just like everyone else!
> FFS never mind this, why the fuck are kids being > given laptops in the first place?
But a tad late to replay to this.
Why give highschoolers laptops? Because it's important to get our kids to be computer literate before college. While you can likely slap together a power point presenation faster then a jackrabbit in matting season... to your average joe this is a skill. PCs are everyday tools and by giving kids a laptop they are forced to use this learn this tool. And it's entirely possible going with a cheap notebook that it would actually cost less than the 6 or 7 text books that go so out of date so quickly and switch to PDF.
So yes... chances are they are going to download porn, exchange music, and generally fuck around like kids do.... but there are people today who are so computer illiterate that they couldn't download an.mp3 if their life depended on it.
Then you should get it in writing, because if you have a note explicitly telling the teacher not to confiscate the camera, then you are safe.
It *WAS* in writing, on the sylibus! The same one that had been used for 8 years! In one case I had to decair it stolen property and get the cops to get my camera back from the school. Not being a student anymore, I can't say for sure... but in my day one got a hall pass with a note for photography. I never had a problem when I was a student, but oh have times changed.
Sure I'm "SAFE" but it doesn't change the fact that a conflict exists between the rules and the equipment required, and when one of the young ones gets the camera seized resulting in much wasted time dealing with the bozos who say "we don't allow cameras on campus, it's the rule", even though photography and media classes are offered that use cameras!
They mave have acted "in excess of given authority" but I don't see where they had the intent to do any of 1 through 5 unless you really, really, reach.
Sounds like Officer Skavinsky and the Berks County District Attorney's office don't really know what they are doing and don't understand the law in question or computers in general.
Officers often don't understand the law, understanding isn't required only enforcement. I don't mean this to belittle police, that's just the way it is esp. when dealing with computer crimes.... and when the DA tells you to arrest a bunch of kids on a felany charge well you arrest a bunch of kids on a felany charge or get suspended/fired.
Now... I agree rules were broken... as to what degree they were broken I have no clue. I didn't see anything about violations of privacy, changing grades, or anything above and beyond gaining access via a weak password that everyone either knew, guess, or saw on a post it. For all I know, all they did was tweek with their machinens to surf for porn.... or even get around the proxy so they can lookup naviagation (i.e. sextants).
In which case the person at fault is teacher-a. They have set a very bad example to the student and wasted teacher-b's time. If teacher-a wants the rules to be varied then it is entirely their responsibility to follow the relevent procedures for doing so and informing anyone who needs to know. In this kind of situation the teachers are in the position of enforceing the rules. Whilst inconsitant enforcment of rules tends to lead to poor school discipline even worst is where people who are ment to be enforcing rules encourage breaking them.
What about a photography class - no cameras allowed on campus, and the sylybus requires students bring their own SLR camera, none provided by the school?
In the schools the same thing happens. The students is told not use their cell phone or music player in class. They choose to challenge that request,and the teacher has not choice but to enforce boundries and take the item up. The students might be used to getting the item back, but the teacher may or may not do so. The teacher may in fact it place in some random donation box. It is fair? Maybe not, but we all know we take risks when we break the rules.
But what if teacher-a asks a student to bring his walkman to help with an AV project, and teacher-b blindly following the rules and confiscates it, and teacher-a fails the student for not being able to complete their project. Sounds silly... I've seen this happen.
Cell phones, another good issue. What if the highschool doesn't provide a telephone or even have a payphone to let students phone home and say "come pick me up". Cell phones are useful this way and parents are often giving them to kids. Activity directors advocate this... keeps kids safe, reduces liability. But the student gets it seized because it's written in the book, irregardless of the fact the parent gave it to the kid or the permission slip reccomends a "cell phone".
The moment you look at the letter of the law, without giving any regard to it's intent or meaning totally eliminates any sence of justice. It's not being a Wussy if you disagree with the consequences of an unjust or unfair law, it's your duty and a citizen to stand up for the sake of our posterity. There can be no justice so long as law is absolute!
"Skavinsky consulted with the Berks County District Attorney's office and recommended charges of "Computer Trespass," in violation of PA criminal code section 7615, which carries a third degree felony charge."
Actually that would be Title 18 Chapter 76 (SS) 7615 but the TFA doesn't expressly say Title 18 PAcode.com doesn't have anything on title 18 criminal code online, except a chapter listing (SS) 303.15 which doesn't even list anything of Chapter 76: Computer Offenses (SS)7601-7661. I had to establish the syntax based on my view visits to Philly, and see what chapter isn't listed online.
(SS) = dec(21)ctrl-u Section but slashdot drops this character.
And so to claim a felony, they're claiming that some law was broken. Why can't anyone describe that law?
TFA isn't all that clear and pacode.com is none too helpful. they only stated "Computer Trespass" PA criminal code section 7615, a Third degree felony.
PA Title 18, Chapter 76: Computer Offenses "Computer Trespass" PA criminal code section 7615, a Third degree felony.
(a) Offense defined.--A person commits the offense of computer trespass if he knowingly and without authority or in excess of given authority uses a computer or computer network with the intent to:
(1) temporarily or permanently remove computer data, computer programs or computer software from a computer or computer network;
(2) cause a computer to malfunction, regardless of the amount of time the malfunction persists;
(3) alter or erase any computer data, computer programs or computer software;
(4) effect the creation or alteration of a financial instrument or of an electronic transfer of funds; or
(5) cause physical injury to the property of another.
Shrawder said the secret password '50Trexler,' was widely-known among the student body and distributed early in the school year. It allowed between 80 and 100 students to reconfigure their laptops, he said. The more computer-savvy students began to disable the administrations' ability to spy on the students' computer use.--tfa
I rather thought if you had the key to someone home you couldn't call it "Breaking and entering" even if you were a dumb ass and put it under your mat. Would not the same rule of common sense apply if they were dumb enough to let the students at the password? Ok, TFA isn't clear how they got the password, but 100 people had I'd hardly call it felonies hacking or computer trespass.
Playing real-life Monopoly in London is kinda of dangerous with all the spooks, CIA agents, and Russians with posion-tipped umbellas running around. Personally, I would try my luck with a pissed off New York taxi driver since it would be safer as the muggers get run over more often than the pigeons.
Nah, just bring with you a bullet proof hat with razor sharp brim. Looks dashing and is the best defence from spooks, CIA agents, and russians with poison tipped umbellas. But those nasty man eating bubbles that pop out of the sea, can't help you with those.
If you vote no on the broadcast flag i'll FedEx over a copy of season 4 of 24 on DVD for you. I couldn't do this with the broadcast flag. This is why you should vote no.
Slashdot Mirror
I don't know why on earth one would want a permanent print head when you can get one that is both removable and separate from the ink.
I don't know why on earth anyone would pay $80+ to replace their canon print head when they could buy a new printer for just 20% more.
That's not entirely fair. It's nice the fact you can pop out the canon printhead and clean it. I wish you could do the same on Epsons.
My screen is broken ...
Service contract
My battery died
Service contract
My S key won't work
Service contract
I dropped it
Service contract
I locked myself out
System restore
I deleted all my icons
System restore
Billy deleted all my icons
System restore
I am colorblind and have never had a bit of problem telling which light is lit. If it's the top one (or left if they're sideways), stop. This is US-centric. I don't understand stop signals in other countries. Especially England.
The new LEDs take some getting use to. The Green is very blue, and the red is very orange.
But what's the worst are the cities that use amber or red street lights. This is common among places that have observatories near by. Now a white street light is going to look much like a green traffic light but it doesn't matter because it's green and green means go. But Amber or Red could be anything... esp red which typicaly isn't bright enough to show it's attached to a pole rather than overhead.
No I have one worse for you .. Black text on dark chocolate coloured paper
I know this combo... i'm one of the few buggers who can read this crap so long as i'm in a well lit room, depending on the shade of brown.
People whose eyes have no red cones can wait for the plain paper hardcover edition, just like blind people wait for the spoken edition.
It's not a lack of cones but rather them acting as if they are overloaded... as is the case with red green, and blue yellow color blindness.
I honestly don't know how hard it would be for you to read.
But the point... is why make something that would be ugly for 93% of the american population and unreadable by 7% when you could just not do it, esp something that hasn't been an issue with published print before.
Besides, it's not a disability like blindness which would grant you the right to borrow brail editions from the LOC.
First, DRM of course means "DIGITAL", this is anything but digital.
I imagine if they decided to watermark the papers with faces of presidents that closely resemble that on currency so to trip anti-counterfit measures in some scanners and printers that it could be called DRM after a fashion.
If they did this, I wonder what effect the fundimentalists who burn Harry Potter books.
As an additional layer of security, why not print the books with black ink on red paper so that most photocopiers cannot read them?
Then I couldn't read them!
Perhaps it's a color blindness thing, but the worst thing in the world for me to read is black text on red paper, or visa versa.
And, of course, because we're all trustworthy, it'll work fantastically well! Neither I, nor my friends, would ever just copy music without paying for it. Ever. It would be morally indefensible!
By all means... sell a licensed cover and jewel case instead. Trust doesn't enter into it... home printing usually costs between $2000 to $10,000/gal for the ink where a professionaly printed cover would cost less, last longer, and look better. Why should Canon and Epson get all the bucks from P2P distrubution.
Even those who don't pay for a cover will still gladly download a label from the website, which could contain the contact info and serve as free advertising.
For my videos it takes me a long time to design and print a cover... where I'd gladly pay for an offical one.
No I mean writing explicitly telling whatever teacher who would want to confiscate your camera, from the photography teacher.
In my day... it was on the hall pass.
Today... can't say for sure, not in high school... but the last time I saw the classroom he had a stack load of hallpasses all pre-filled out "photography student".
Safe... my left foot! All it takes is one bonehead teacher or security guard blindly following the rules to ruin your day.
The funny thing is, this is all perfectly normal and happens all the time.
The pot. And the smell.
Please don't boil hippies. Hippies should be nicely baked.
I find the concept of 'free' music quite interesting; I mean most music available at record shops is popular mainly due to marketing. Very few people will buy a cd for $20+ of a band they've never heard; even if it's for one song they've only sorta heard. But it get's a bit of press or marketing hype and there sold.
The good record shops play music... and the employees know what's playing, and you can ask for it and buy it.
I'm fond of the idea of bands designating a "radio" track on their CDs. In theory there is provisions for this in redbook, copy protect bit. Like we pay attention with ripping software... but anyhow let this radio track be shared on p2p networks freely and have this be a commercial to buy the album.
Now back to the school: if they had spent the same money on desktop PC's they could have had enough to put on every desk in every classroom so that every student could just login at the start of the lesson, it would have been far more difficult for them to mess around with AND they would have had enough money left over to give every student another PC to take home! after that they would still have a sizeable bit of cash left over!
I can't disagree with you on this... though I don't 100% agree that desktops everywhere are the answer.
Part of the reason that makes *us* cool... us being those of use who use a varity of systems... is the fact that we can sit down and with seconds learn how to use something totally unfamilar. I think this should be paramount in any form of computer education.. fundimentals. To this end I'm somewhat happy they are using i-books... and heck in their abuse of the priviliage I suspect they had to overcome a few issues with file exhange with PCs (note, haven't used OS 10 so I can't speak on that level). On the other hand... windows based notebooks are much cheaper.
I won't debate the choice of product... for all I know they might buy the $3000 notebooks for sale next year for $2000 and spend another grand for new ones. I don't know their master plan.
When I was at school we had computer rooms and/or computers at home and that was enough, infact even those were abused, if you walked into the rooms at most times of the day you would see 90% of people on the net (not working), maybe 5% using the net for work and another 5% on Word trying to get their homework done before the next lession. Then when the admin had left early we would have the afternoon to load up some games and use the network for an even less academic purpose.
Totally... I remember the olden days... getting the other students really excited when I could get the computers to say rude things... and using the apple floor plotter make rude pictures. This lead others to do the same. So yes... 90% screwing around is fair comment... but amazingly enough, it focused our engery to learn something to screw around better... so in that way productive and educational screwing around. To this day I know a few pepole who do CAD... who still can make some nice rude pictures on the office plotters.
That is still something that should be done at home. If the parent wants the kid to have a cell phone, then the parent needs to train and understand the risk.
And schools and educators need to understand if they are not going to allow kids to use the office phone, and there is no pay phone by the school... this is going to leave kids stranded.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be boundries, and i'm not saying that kids need to learn an element of self control. But the number one reason I gave my niece a cell phone was for saftey. No phone at the school when the doors were locked, and no pay phone for 20 or so blocks. But let's say a kid uses a cell phone at an in approperate time... fail them for the day, give them a suspention, and by gally sieze the phone till the end of the day. But as far as lessons to each, having *them* pay for the time they use on a pay as you go phone teaches responcibility. Digital watches were banned at many a school for a time... they were a distraction.
And private school is no different, except at a a good private school they do not have to put up with the bullshit of a parent calling a child and in the process denying an education for everyone else, or the class structure falling apart because a child pulls up a naked picture on their phone.
I hate to say this (that's wrong but hey) but nakid pictures are not limited to phones. No one ever brought a playboy, or their dad's naughty playing cards to school? But I had the common sence to do it by the lockers and not inside class, just like everyone else!
> FFS never mind this, why the fuck are kids being
.mp3 if their life depended on it.
> given laptops in the first place?
But a tad late to replay to this.
Why give highschoolers laptops? Because it's important to get our kids to be computer literate before college. While you can likely slap together a power point presenation faster then a jackrabbit in matting season... to your average joe this is a skill. PCs are everyday tools and by giving kids a laptop they are forced to use this learn this tool. And it's entirely possible going with a cheap notebook that it would actually cost less than the 6 or 7 text books that go so out of date so quickly and switch to PDF.
So yes... chances are they are going to download porn, exchange music, and generally fuck around like kids do.... but there are people today who are so computer illiterate that they couldn't download an
Then you should get it in writing, because if you have a note explicitly telling the teacher not to confiscate the camera, then you are safe.
It *WAS* in writing, on the sylibus! The same one that had been used for 8 years! In one case I had to decair it stolen property and get the cops to get my camera back from the school. Not being a student anymore, I can't say for sure... but in my day one got a hall pass with a note for photography. I never had a problem when I was a student, but oh have times changed.
Sure I'm "SAFE" but it doesn't change the fact that a conflict exists between the rules and the equipment required, and when one of the young ones gets the camera seized resulting in much wasted time dealing with the bozos who say "we don't allow cameras on campus, it's the rule", even though photography and media classes are offered that use cameras!
They mave have acted "in excess of given authority" but I don't see where they had the intent to do any of 1 through 5 unless you really, really, reach.
Sounds like Officer Skavinsky and the Berks County District Attorney's office don't really know what they are doing and don't understand the law in question or computers in general.
Officers often don't understand the law, understanding isn't required only enforcement. I don't mean this to belittle police, that's just the way it is esp. when dealing with computer crimes.... and when the DA tells you to arrest a bunch of kids on a felany charge well you arrest a bunch of kids on a felany charge or get suspended/fired.
Now... I agree rules were broken... as to what degree they were broken I have no clue. I didn't see anything about violations of privacy, changing grades, or anything above and beyond gaining access via a weak password that everyone either knew, guess, or saw on a post it. For all I know, all they did was tweek with their machinens to surf for porn.... or even get around the proxy so they can lookup naviagation (i.e. sextants).
In which case the person at fault is teacher-a. They have set a very bad example to the student and wasted teacher-b's time. If teacher-a wants the rules to be varied then it is entirely their responsibility to follow the relevent procedures for doing so and informing anyone who needs to know. In this kind of situation the teachers are in the position of enforceing the rules. Whilst inconsitant enforcment of rules tends to lead to poor school discipline even worst is where people who are ment to be enforcing rules encourage breaking them.
What about a photography class - no cameras allowed on campus, and the sylybus requires students bring their own SLR camera, none provided by the school?
I've had a few of those meetings, lol.
In the schools the same thing happens. The students is told not use their cell phone or music player in class. They choose to challenge that request,and the teacher has not choice but to enforce boundries and take the item up. The students might be used to getting the item back, but the teacher may or may not do so. The teacher may in fact it place in some random donation box. It is fair? Maybe not, but we all know we take risks when we break the rules.
But what if teacher-a asks a student to bring his walkman to help with an AV project, and teacher-b blindly following the rules and confiscates it, and teacher-a fails the student for not being able to complete their project. Sounds silly... I've seen this happen.
Cell phones, another good issue. What if the highschool doesn't provide a telephone or even have a payphone to let students phone home and say "come pick me up". Cell phones are useful this way and parents are often giving them to kids. Activity directors advocate this... keeps kids safe, reduces liability. But the student gets it seized because it's written in the book, irregardless of the fact the parent gave it to the kid or the permission slip reccomends a "cell phone".
The moment you look at the letter of the law, without giving any regard to it's intent or meaning totally eliminates any sence of justice. It's not being a Wussy if you disagree with the consequences of an unjust or unfair law, it's your duty and a citizen to stand up for the sake of our posterity. There can be no justice so long as law is absolute!
Stand up and ask why!
"Skavinsky consulted with the Berks County District Attorney's office and recommended charges of "Computer Trespass," in violation of PA criminal code section 7615, which carries a third degree felony charge."
Actually that would be Title 18 Chapter 76 (SS) 7615 but the TFA doesn't expressly say Title 18 PAcode.com doesn't have anything on title 18 criminal code online, except a chapter listing (SS) 303.15 which doesn't even list anything of Chapter 76: Computer Offenses (SS)7601-7661. I had to establish the syntax based on my view visits to Philly, and see what chapter isn't listed online.
(SS) = dec(21)ctrl-u Section but slashdot drops this character.
Right, it wouldn't be "breaking and entering"... it'd be "trespass".
You can trespass on something someone physicaly gives you, like a locked box or an ibook?
TFA isn't all that clear and pacode.com is none too helpful. they only stated "Computer Trespass" PA criminal code section 7615, a Third degree felony.
Also see " Unlawful Use of Computer"
3933 (a)(1) F3 GRAVITY SCORE 5 PRIOR RECORD POINTS 1
3933 (a)(2)(3) M1 GRAVITY SCORE 3 PRIOR RECORD POINTS m --http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/204/chapter30
And as the PAcode site is now slashdoted... I takeit someone else posted this info.
I rather thought if you had the key to someone home you couldn't call it "Breaking and entering" even if you were a dumb ass and put it under your mat. Would not the same rule of common sense apply if they were dumb enough to let the students at the password? Ok, TFA isn't clear how they got the password, but 100 people had I'd hardly call it felonies hacking or computer trespass.
Playing real-life Monopoly in London is kinda of dangerous with all the spooks, CIA agents, and Russians with posion-tipped umbellas running around. Personally, I would try my luck with a pissed off New York taxi driver since it would be safer as the muggers get run over more often than the pigeons.
Nah, just bring with you a bullet proof hat with razor sharp brim. Looks dashing and is the best defence from spooks, CIA agents, and russians with poison tipped umbellas. But those nasty man eating bubbles that pop out of the sea, can't help you with those.
A TYPICAL SLASHDOT USER CALL
Dear Senator...
If you vote no on the broadcast flag i'll FedEx over a copy of season 4 of 24 on DVD for you. I couldn't do this with the broadcast flag. This is why you should vote no.
great links - thanks for passing on the info.
e t/quadblack.tam
I should also probally include http://www.mediastreet.com/cgi-bin/tame/mediastre