Maybe they were trying to be ironic. You know, like ray-eee-ain on your wedding day.
its like meeting the toolkit of your dreams, then meeting its beautiful kdesktop.
Now, that's ironic!
Re:Comparison to WPF or other non stone-age tools?
on
Qt Becomes LGPL
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· Score: 1
lol. So your question is really: "why should I bother with this Linux thing when Mr Ballmer gives me all the nice feel-good, happy development tools I need to do Windows-only GUIs"?
Swing was a "failure" because it was slow, and required Java. Not enough people wanted to move to Java to get that cross platform feature, to be honest x-platform hasn't been too much of an issue until relatively recently, just shows how far Linux has come in the last few years.
and don't forget a goodie - it makes porting MFC apps reasonably simple. Won't nobody think of the poor, recently-discarded Windows C++ GUI developers:)
(any excuse to get them to port stuff to Linux, now if we can just get a good kernel replacement for WaitForSingleObject...)
that was one of the good things about Windows development - the GUI style guidelines that stopped apps looking like whatever the author felt like, and made them all consistent (even if that was grey dialogs, with the same old file menu). This was a good thing - witness the howls of outrage with Office 2007 as people can't find the print command (hint: its behind the round icon/button), or that the UI looks nothing like any other windows application.
With WPF becoming a popular choice for new apps, Windows will fragment into all kinds of 'innovative' user interfaces, none of which bear any resemblance to any other. Linux should take this opportunity to bring sanity to the desktop.
Of course, having a common development toolkit brings its own benefits in training new developers. I think a desktop based on QT would benefit Linux far, far more than is immediately apparent.
I don't think its about scrapping gnome and only having KDE, but using the same widget toolkit that KDE uses. The user interface would still be the same as gnome currently has, but consistency across apps would be better, developing would be easier, maintenance would be improved, memory usage would decrease.. etc etc.
no, consolidate the commonality - places to store stuff, configuration files that are shared between apps, etc. The point of having multiple desktops is to provide different "user experiences" for different users. In much the same way as a lot of people turn off Vista aero and revert to the Windows 2000 look, a linux user should be able to switch between Desktop1 and Desktop2 while having one place to decide which mouse button is click and which is menu.
As an analogy - imagine if debian decided that all config files were to be placed in/user/local/config, redhat in/etc, and suse in ~/appdata. It'd be chaos... just like with the 2 desktops we have today.
Obviously, it would be best if all common functionality was in a 'desktop framework' that user desktops work on top of - much like apps use the kernel. Then we'd see more applications being written, and they'd be more consistent across the board.
Perhaps the time is right for a new opengl-based 3d desktop:)
I used to be with you here - public domain licences are better than the GPL (and to an extent I still think that, be altruistic and give your code away under a BSD licence is the ultimate is philanthropy), however, the GPL does have an important part to play in opening up software to the world in general. I think that, because the GPL mandates the subsequent free-ness of derived works, its asking for a kind of payment for using the code licenced under it. Obviously you don't have to pay that 'fee', but if you do, the cost to you (of re-using someone else's hard work) is to be similarly generous.
If everyone released code under the GPL, all we'd have to do is find different ways of being remunerated for it (probably in support and maintenance licences, which is where my company, a software house, make most of our money anyway), but the benefit of being able to use lots and lots of library and other code makes that an attractive proposition in itself.
We write a lot of code for windows, and I know if it wasn't for Microsoft producing a lot of libraries and frameworks, Windows wouldn't be nearly as attractive a development platform as it is. The GPL is nature's way of making Linux similarly attractive.
There's a link here of open source news for UK schools. Doesn't look too bad, but you can guess nearly all of them still use Microsoft. This link refers to Becta's appearance before another EU antitrust inquiry into Microsoft's practices.
It's not dumping if the competition (Linux) is free.
Last I saw, Linux wasn't free, RedHat, Novell and Canonical all sell it (plus assorted support and licensing offerings) for quite a sum. Therefore, this dumping is illegal. surely?
plus, Macs certainly aren't free, and they're also part Microsoft's of the competition.
Lets see - you say "For a typical waterfall you're doing roughly these steps: Requirements Analysis, Design, Implementation, Testing, Maintenance.", then you say "What to do instead? Small, incremental feature based development. Gather requirements, assign costs to them, ask the sponsors to pick a few, implement & test the chosen features"
So you go requirements, analysis (ie figure out costs), design ('cos surely you don't just start tapping away coding the new features without some thought), implementation, testing and obviously maintenance (as you've got to fix the bugs in your current release when you release the next).
Hmm - so really, your "spiral" model is just a lot of little waterfalls. The problem was never the waterfall method, just that it was stretched out so far beyond manageability.
I'm beginning to realize that I chose a terrible sample question to post here.
no, I don't think so. Having interviewed people, I can say that quite a few will look at your super-simple, gormless question and think "erm uuuh duh, dunno".
Then many others will (smugly) tell you a simple way to do it. Those people at least know something and might be worth hiring (if they could get on with the rest of the team:) )
No, I bet he isn't. He'll be thinking of green-on-black data entry terminal software that just worked and was written, carefully, by people who planned what they were doing, often screen by screen.
As a very good example, look at all the old COBOL programs still running banks and payroll systems. Just why do you think they are *still* running them? Hint: cost of upgrading isn't a problem for the kind of companies that do run these.
Perhaps the problem is complexity in the system, though I doubt its the requirements made of the system that are at issue, but the solutions that are produced nowadays to fulfil them. ie whereas once you did it in a boring, careful way, today its slapped together with whatever the latest framework is, with all the inefficiency of the language/platform/framework we have nowadays. End result is that despite computers getting vastly more powerful, the overall response and performance of the systems we produce are still pretty much the same as they were 20 years ago. I think the ERP, SOP, payroll and CRM systems of today still do very little over what they used to years ago - except that they're sure prettier and more colourful!
yes, but that fridge is mostly (70%) easily-recycled metal and some plastic. The electronics are going to be pretty much the same as 2 cell phones or so.
Older fridges have nasty chemicals to provide the refrigeration, but if you have the right facilities and equipment, they can be removed and destroyed safely.
Still, +1 for your idea of universal chargers, but how do we get that implemented? An ISO standard for chargers perhaps?
I wouldn't worry about the hazardous material being toxic. Many of the oceans' species are millions of years old, they know how to deal with toxic waste.
and if they don't, the new Godzilla species will come round and tell you off, well - tell our children off, but who cares about those scrounging parasites anyway:)
true, whilst getting rid of the PC is relatively easy - it becomes a major hassle if you're giving away HDDs too. I'm sure the charities won't be too impressed to start receiving lots of PCs, none of which came with a drive.
Lose the touch screen LCD at the side?!?!!?! No way, its gotta be the ideal customisable addon to the keyboard. Not just to be used as a system 'monitor' for diagnostics and boot and so on, but while you're using the keyboard (plugged into your TV through its wireless HDMI box) you can have the side bit as a numeric keypad, mousepad (I'm not sure of the sensitivity of it though), or - as they have in TFA - a calendar. I'm sure you can think of good stuff to put on there.
A device that requires a power outlet near the couch is pretty useful. If you can disconnect it to go wander, that's fine too. I know lots of people who use their laptop whilst its plugged in. The 'mobile' factor is that you can take it where you want, not that it can be run without a plug.
His laptop might well be being used as a netflix box, its quiet and cheap after all, if you had a half-bust laptop, it'd be perfect for such a task.
interesting idea.. you mean you want to store a certificate locally and use that to automatically authenticate against a website, without having to create accounts or similar on those sites?
Hmm.. well, it sounds like MyOpenID to me. Yes, you can authenticate yourself using a certificate, if the site takes openid logins then you can be logged in automatically using it (once you've registered with the website obviously), and yes the certificate can be revoked (ie removed from your openid account).
Better still, you can use the same certificate on multiple client browsers easily, so you wouldn't end up with multiple identities if you browse from work and home.
I think openid is pretty damn good. The problems with it tend to be from the crappy providers - like Yahoo, Facebook et al who don't really want you to use it to login to other sites. Its like they think authentication is a 'bring others to us', not 'universal auth with a single login'. So dump them and you'll have a much better experience.
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you got yourself an OpenID (from a decent provider, not crappy old Yahoo) then you'd have no problems with it - like I, and many thousand other users on SO do.
I think it would work better if Jeff provided his own OpenID provider, even if it was just a rebranded MyOpenID one, that would solve one "issue" people have (where they go to a different site to sign up) as it would appear to them that they'd never left SO.
the issue of moving OpenID is another one that does need addressing, but its no different from having an account that is locked out due to technical issues with a provider - if Passport goes down (and it has in the past, IIRC) then you're just as stuffed, its no better than if MS provided OpenID accounts themselves! (and to be fair, they could, using your passport account as the authentication mechanism!)
If what you said held any weight then bush would have been gunned down years ago. But he wasn't. despite the vast numbers of people who hated him. Not one of them got a shot off.
well, someone tried to beat him to death with his shoes, but if you listen carefully you can hear him "being interviewed" in the room next door as Bush gave his "oh well, I just dodged them, aren't I great" interview to the press.
Good job you guys spent so many lives liberating that country so being tortured for your political views no longer happens, eh.
In these hard times companies are also scrapping upgrades and new systems as well. I can;t quite believe it, but MS is (apparently) going to lay off 10% or so of its global workforce. Perhaps they finally realised how many of those microsofties do useful work, or they've decided to get rid of all the Raymond Chens now they only use.NET.
Obviously if revenue is "disappointing", it can only mean companies are not buying more MS stuff, probably because what they have works (though MS is desperate to get everyone to upgrade), but also possibly because Linux is really making inroads in some areas.
2009 could be the year things really changed for the IT software marketplace.
I'd say the main stumbling block is netgear, belkin et al. Hardly any of them make a home router that is IPv6 capable, so even if my server,my desktop, and my ISP supports IPv6, I still can't use it. (Ok, there's teredo and other gateways, but they're not what we really need or want)
If I had a IPv6-capable router, then it'd be a totally different story. I think we either need some pressure brought to bear on the router manufacturers, or they need to get wise to the idea that making their new models IPv6 capable will be a good marketing point, I'd buy one because I know the difference, the man of the street would buy one because, well, who wants an old v4 model when you can have a v6 one:)
Don't forget you can get funny formatting in Word, all by itself. The amount of time I've spent trying to get stuff looking nice when Word will decide I really did want a bullet list, or a modified style, or a table cell format amazes me.
The only thing I've found so far that OOo does not do that MSO does, is embedded flash. Yup, those elves bowling, or yeti sports games do not work in OOo. I think that's possibly a good reason to go for it though (your employees may not totally agree:)
Slashdot Mirror
Maybe they were trying to be ironic. You know, like ray-eee-ain on your wedding day.
its like meeting the toolkit of your dreams, then meeting its beautiful kdesktop.
Now, that's ironic!
lol. So your question is really: "why should I bother with this Linux thing when Mr Ballmer gives me all the nice feel-good, happy development tools I need to do Windows-only GUIs"?
Here is a question from a quite pro-C# site concerning WPF.
Swing was a "failure" because it was slow, and required Java. Not enough people wanted to move to Java to get that cross platform feature, to be honest x-platform hasn't been too much of an issue until relatively recently, just shows how far Linux has come in the last few years.
and don't forget a goodie - it makes porting MFC apps reasonably simple. Won't nobody think of the poor, recently-discarded Windows C++ GUI developers :)
(any excuse to get them to port stuff to Linux, now if we can just get a good kernel replacement for WaitForSingleObject...)
that was one of the good things about Windows development - the GUI style guidelines that stopped apps looking like whatever the author felt like, and made them all consistent (even if that was grey dialogs, with the same old file menu). This was a good thing - witness the howls of outrage with Office 2007 as people can't find the print command (hint: its behind the round icon/button), or that the UI looks nothing like any other windows application.
With WPF becoming a popular choice for new apps, Windows will fragment into all kinds of 'innovative' user interfaces, none of which bear any resemblance to any other. Linux should take this opportunity to bring sanity to the desktop.
Of course, having a common development toolkit brings its own benefits in training new developers. I think a desktop based on QT would benefit Linux far, far more than is immediately apparent.
I don't think its about scrapping gnome and only having KDE, but using the same widget toolkit that KDE uses. The user interface would still be the same as gnome currently has, but consistency across apps would be better, developing would be easier, maintenance would be improved, memory usage would decrease.. etc etc.
So its not scrap Gnome, more like create Qnome.
no, consolidate the commonality - places to store stuff, configuration files that are shared between apps, etc. The point of having multiple desktops is to provide different "user experiences" for different users. In much the same way as a lot of people turn off Vista aero and revert to the Windows 2000 look, a linux user should be able to switch between Desktop1 and Desktop2 while having one place to decide which mouse button is click and which is menu.
As an analogy - imagine if debian decided that all config files were to be placed in /user/local/config, redhat in /etc, and suse in ~/appdata. It'd be chaos... just like with the 2 desktops we have today.
Obviously, it would be best if all common functionality was in a 'desktop framework' that user desktops work on top of - much like apps use the kernel. Then we'd see more applications being written, and they'd be more consistent across the board.
Perhaps the time is right for a new opengl-based 3d desktop :)
I used to be with you here - public domain licences are better than the GPL (and to an extent I still think that, be altruistic and give your code away under a BSD licence is the ultimate is philanthropy), however, the GPL does have an important part to play in opening up software to the world in general. I think that, because the GPL mandates the subsequent free-ness of derived works, its asking for a kind of payment for using the code licenced under it. Obviously you don't have to pay that 'fee', but if you do, the cost to you (of re-using someone else's hard work) is to be similarly generous.
If everyone released code under the GPL, all we'd have to do is find different ways of being remunerated for it (probably in support and maintenance licences, which is where my company, a software house, make most of our money anyway), but the benefit of being able to use lots and lots of library and other code makes that an attractive proposition in itself.
We write a lot of code for windows, and I know if it wasn't for Microsoft producing a lot of libraries and frameworks, Windows wouldn't be nearly as attractive a development platform as it is. The GPL is nature's way of making Linux similarly attractive.
There's a link here of open source news for UK schools. Doesn't look too bad, but you can guess nearly all of them still use Microsoft. This link refers to Becta's appearance before another EU antitrust inquiry into Microsoft's practices.
It's not dumping if the competition (Linux) is free.
Last I saw, Linux wasn't free, RedHat, Novell and Canonical all sell it (plus assorted support and licensing offerings) for quite a sum. Therefore, this dumping is illegal. surely?
plus, Macs certainly aren't free, and they're also part Microsoft's of the competition.
Lets see - you say "For a typical waterfall you're doing roughly these steps: Requirements Analysis, Design, Implementation, Testing, Maintenance.", then you say "What to do instead? Small, incremental feature based development. Gather requirements, assign costs to them, ask the sponsors to pick a few, implement & test the chosen features"
So you go requirements, analysis (ie figure out costs), design ('cos surely you don't just start tapping away coding the new features without some thought), implementation, testing and obviously maintenance (as you've got to fix the bugs in your current release when you release the next).
Hmm - so really, your "spiral" model is just a lot of little waterfalls. The problem was never the waterfall method, just that it was stretched out so far beyond manageability.
I'm beginning to realize that I chose a terrible sample question to post here.
no, I don't think so. Having interviewed people, I can say that quite a few will look at your super-simple, gormless question and think "erm uuuh duh, dunno".
Then many others will (smugly) tell you a simple way to do it. Those people at least know something and might be worth hiring (if they could get on with the rest of the team :) )
You are probably thinking about your old DOS PC.
No, I bet he isn't. He'll be thinking of green-on-black data entry terminal software that just worked and was written, carefully, by people who planned what they were doing, often screen by screen.
As a very good example, look at all the old COBOL programs still running banks and payroll systems. Just why do you think they are *still* running them? Hint: cost of upgrading isn't a problem for the kind of companies that do run these.
Perhaps the problem is complexity in the system, though I doubt its the requirements made of the system that are at issue, but the solutions that are produced nowadays to fulfil them. ie whereas once you did it in a boring, careful way, today its slapped together with whatever the latest framework is, with all the inefficiency of the language/platform/framework we have nowadays. End result is that despite computers getting vastly more powerful, the overall response and performance of the systems we produce are still pretty much the same as they were 20 years ago. I think the ERP, SOP, payroll and CRM systems of today still do very little over what they used to years ago - except that they're sure prettier and more colourful!
yes, but that fridge is mostly (70%) easily-recycled metal and some plastic. The electronics are going to be pretty much the same as 2 cell phones or so.
Older fridges have nasty chemicals to provide the refrigeration, but if you have the right facilities and equipment, they can be removed and destroyed safely.
Still, +1 for your idea of universal chargers, but how do we get that implemented? An ISO standard for chargers perhaps?
I wouldn't worry about the hazardous material being toxic. Many of the oceans' species are millions of years old, they know how to deal with toxic waste.
and if they don't, the new Godzilla species will come round and tell you off, well - tell our children off, but who cares about those scrounging parasites anyway :)
true, whilst getting rid of the PC is relatively easy - it becomes a major hassle if you're giving away HDDs too. I'm sure the charities won't be too impressed to start receiving lots of PCs, none of which came with a drive.
You insensitive clod. I can already fit all my porn on one SD card.
Slacker.
The word you're looking for certainly ends in 'ker', but it isn't the one you used :-)
Lose the touch screen LCD at the side?!?!!?! No way, its gotta be the ideal customisable addon to the keyboard. Not just to be used as a system 'monitor' for diagnostics and boot and so on, but while you're using the keyboard (plugged into your TV through its wireless HDMI box) you can have the side bit as a numeric keypad, mousepad (I'm not sure of the sensitivity of it though), or - as they have in TFA - a calendar. I'm sure you can think of good stuff to put on there.
I think you're being a tad harsh there.
A device that requires a power outlet near the couch is pretty useful. If you can disconnect it to go wander, that's fine too. I know lots of people who use their laptop whilst its plugged in. The 'mobile' factor is that you can take it where you want, not that it can be run without a plug.
His laptop might well be being used as a netflix box, its quiet and cheap after all, if you had a half-bust laptop, it'd be perfect for such a task.
interesting idea.. you mean you want to store a certificate locally and use that to automatically authenticate against a website, without having to create accounts or similar on those sites?
Hmm.. well, it sounds like MyOpenID to me. Yes, you can authenticate yourself using a certificate, if the site takes openid logins then you can be logged in automatically using it (once you've registered with the website obviously), and yes the certificate can be revoked (ie removed from your openid account).
Better still, you can use the same certificate on multiple client browsers easily, so you wouldn't end up with multiple identities if you browse from work and home.
I think openid is pretty damn good. The problems with it tend to be from the crappy providers - like Yahoo, Facebook et al who don't really want you to use it to login to other sites. Its like they think authentication is a 'bring others to us', not 'universal auth with a single login'. So dump them and you'll have a much better experience.
Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you got yourself an OpenID (from a decent provider, not crappy old Yahoo) then you'd have no problems with it - like I, and many thousand other users on SO do.
I think it would work better if Jeff provided his own OpenID provider, even if it was just a rebranded MyOpenID one, that would solve one "issue" people have (where they go to a different site to sign up) as it would appear to them that they'd never left SO.
the issue of moving OpenID is another one that does need addressing, but its no different from having an account that is locked out due to technical issues with a provider - if Passport goes down (and it has in the past, IIRC) then you're just as stuffed, its no better than if MS provided OpenID accounts themselves! (and to be fair, they could, using your passport account as the authentication mechanism!)
If what you said held any weight then bush would have been gunned down years ago.
But he wasn't. despite the vast numbers of people who hated him.
Not one of them got a shot off.
well, someone tried to beat him to death with his shoes, but if you listen carefully you can hear him "being interviewed" in the room next door as Bush gave his "oh well, I just dodged them, aren't I great" interview to the press.
Good job you guys spent so many lives liberating that country so being tortured for your political views no longer happens, eh.
Rather, if MS is like any place I've ever worked, he was probably referring to the people who shouldn't be in the position that they are in.
unfortunately those are the people who will be deciding who goes.
In these hard times companies are also scrapping upgrades and new systems as well. I can;t quite believe it, but MS is (apparently) going to lay off 10% or so of its global workforce. Perhaps they finally realised how many of those microsofties do useful work, or they've decided to get rid of all the Raymond Chens now they only use .NET.
Obviously if revenue is "disappointing", it can only mean companies are not buying more MS stuff, probably because what they have works (though MS is desperate to get everyone to upgrade), but also possibly because Linux is really making inroads in some areas.
2009 could be the year things really changed for the IT software marketplace.
I'd say the main stumbling block is netgear, belkin et al. Hardly any of them make a home router that is IPv6 capable, so even if my server,my desktop, and my ISP supports IPv6, I still can't use it. (Ok, there's teredo and other gateways, but they're not what we really need or want)
If I had a IPv6-capable router, then it'd be a totally different story. I think we either need some pressure brought to bear on the router manufacturers, or they need to get wise to the idea that making their new models IPv6 capable will be a good marketing point, I'd buy one because I know the difference, the man of the street would buy one because, well, who wants an old v4 model when you can have a v6 one :)
Don't forget you can get funny formatting in Word, all by itself. The amount of time I've spent trying to get stuff looking nice when Word will decide I really did want a bullet list, or a modified style, or a table cell format amazes me.
The only thing I've found so far that OOo does not do that MSO does, is embedded flash. Yup, those elves bowling, or yeti sports games do not work in OOo. I think that's possibly a good reason to go for it though (your employees may not totally agree :)