absolutely. In the UK, we have animal rights protestors being moved into the 'definitely terrorist' category after some quite shocking behaviour. Damn right too - terror isn't just about Johnny Foreigner being beastly to us (as one of your other repliees has intimated), buit about anyone who uses terror tactics to achieve some self-obsessed goal.
ah, I think the OP was modded off my screen. However, can you unload a loaded kernel module that is in use? If not, how do you make it not-in-use in order to unload it? So, technically, you do have to take the system down to fix a module bug.
As for the stability of your linux box, who the hell cares? Its one random box with anecdotal stability metrics. I can find plenty of counter examples of linux boxes crashing due to badly written drivers, userland software, pieces of the kernel, etc.
I run a Linux web server and it crashes about every 60 days or so. If you look at netcraft's uptime reports you'll see that Linux isn't that hot. Just becuase a desktop linux box (that might be rebooted every night? every week?) stays up, doesn't mean that Linux is super-reliable.
Even slashdot's average uptime is 137 days, running very little apart from a perl interpreter and apache.
yes, but those modules are loaded into the kernel as needed, and if one of them fails, it will bring the kernel down with it. All you've done is reduce the startup time of the monolithic Linux kernel by removing stuff you don't want in favour of loading it on-demand.
No, what you have at work is a distiction between lazy programmers who don't want to spend any time working on a maintainable solution, and others who are deluding themselves that they have more skill than that actually have.
I exaggerate for effect of course:)
The good developers you want though, are ones who will write good code that is easy to understand, simple and effective. These will not write the sloppy code that just fixes the issue regardless of its long-term quality. These are the guys who would write the microkernel because it is a better system and wouldn't impact on development time whilst also giving better maintenance.
Microkernels aree not niche at all - read the article, he shows you a few that are much more widely used than the number of Linux installs. (ie, your mobile phone has a microkernel, as do Cisco routers)
Then what is Java, if not just another C++ with less features.
There are several branches to the programming tree, Prolog, Lisp and similar languages are one kind, Algol, C/C++ and Java are another. In all cases the degreee of productivity really lies in the hands of the programmer. Even a C programmer can be very productive, he'll just end up with a lot of library code that he reuses. With a tool like Ruby, someone has created these "library" routines for him.
So, for a new, or less experienced, developer, Ruby is the perfect language becauses "its so easy to use", but for the old, seasoned, developers who know how to program, its not much different. Doubly so as those old devs will be working on the difficult stuff that the Ruby tool doesn't provide built-in features for.
so, what innovation did C/C++ give us? General Purpose tools. The fact that these can turn their hand to anything, is, IMHO, the reason they're so popular today compared to any other language that can do X, Y, or Z better.
I have to assume that he is checking out other avenues, but asking/. is as good enough a place as any other to get leads that he will investigate further.
I imagine he's asking 'has anyone else evaluated these things, and which ones did you find were the best?'.
Alternatively, he's going to go suck up to his boss later with his "personal research on his own time".
Oh, if realism is your thing - Dr. Julia Kelly from The Peacemaker
Didn't do any science, but ran around in a short skirt being a bit pissed off at Clooney showing off, and looking quite shocked in a "you can't do that" way as he went around shooting things. Quite an understated performance I felt from a mass market thriller.
How coudl he be your favourite - he was an obviously sick and twisted individual. If I could make 'toys' like that, sure as hell they'd all look like Pris, not the funny dwarves.
hmm, that said - maybe they'd not be the 'basic' pleasure model;-)
I didn't get one of these threatenign emails, which is a pity as I have been a member of bluesecurity for a fair old while (well, since mailwasher added it to their anti-spam services).
I feel a bit left out now:( but I'm sure it won't last.
Since Blue Security is now referring to "tier-1 ISP name withheld", that means one of several things:
4. They're going to be named in a lawsuit, and they don't want to prejudice it with media attention, or counter-suits of defamation. 5. They've contacted the ISP to resolve their issues and don't want to annoy them by publicising who they were.
If you can offer a RATIONAL explanation of why we have a greater interest in hiding technology than in using it, I'd love to hear it. Bonus points if you can explain why 100 years advanced military technology isn't being used in Iraq right now.
erm.. because it was all invented by Microsoft Research, and the NASA and DoD guys prefer Linux?
And don't forget bragging rights. Hey, I invented some feature. Sure, some guy debugged it, but I get to slap the label to it. I might even name it after me (Hello Mr. Reiser, if you should read this...). The guy who debugs it gets... zip.
Oh, I don't know... the guy who debugs it and fixes problerms could put nice comments in the code.. like "whoever wrote this should not be left anywhere near a brewery while a party is taking place".
Yes, yes, "borgheron", we all know its you Mr Tanenbaum, you don't need to hide behind a silly moniker. You're not *still* pissed at Torvalds after all these years are you?:-)
lol. Absolutely right. Imagine what will happen otherwise - we'll get "Andrew Morton suxors big time. We need to get rid of him and replace him with a real leader, someone like Mr Stallman".
No way. I see it differently, its a fake website set up by CmdrTaco, partly to get some dosh for OSTG but partly to see how many of us clicked the link to actually read the article
I'm sorry to reply like this because you make a valid point, but consider your comment "Now, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing (or a good thing, although a rather large part of me is saying "sounds like just deserts to me..."), just that with a side effect this damn obvious, it most certainly is their fault."
with
"He walked into the biker bar and said that only poofters rode bikes, he should have known he'd end up in hospital. Definitely was his own fault."
or
"My girlfriend asked if her bum looked big in the dress she wore, and I told her the truth that it did. Its my own fault I'm sleeping on the couch now.
but also
"She was wearing a really short skirt and revealing top, she should have known she'd get raped, it most certainly was her own fault"
or
"That Guardian Angel guy stepped in to stop the old lady being mugged by the gang, he should have known he'd get stabbed, it was his own fault"
Just because the world is a bad place, filled with bad people, doesn't mean we shouldn't support the victim, especially if they have put themselves in harms way for our benefit.
Good for you, only get yourself a new email account, and post using it to a forum somewhere asking "I'm really interested in Nigerian Teens selling Viagra in casinos. where can I find them?". Wait a couple of days and let BlueFrog go to town:-)
Slashdot Mirror
absolutely. In the UK, we have animal rights protestors being moved into the 'definitely terrorist' category after some quite shocking behaviour. Damn right too - terror isn't just about Johnny Foreigner being beastly to us (as one of your other repliees has intimated), buit about anyone who uses terror tactics to achieve some self-obsessed goal.
And that includes Scott Adams
ah, I think the OP was modded off my screen. However, can you unload a loaded kernel module that is in use? If not, how do you make it not-in-use in order to unload it? So, technically, you do have to take the system down to fix a module bug.
thanks for the tip. However, this basic webserver is quite lightly loaded so I'll just have to figure out what's up with it. Probably osCommerce... :(
FreeBSD is the one at the top of netcraft's uptime though, and Solaris seems to be better than I thought.
cheers.
As for the stability of your linux box, who the hell cares? Its one random box with anecdotal stability metrics. I can find plenty of counter examples of linux boxes crashing due to badly written drivers, userland software, pieces of the kernel, etc.
I run a Linux web server and it crashes about every 60 days or so. If you look at netcraft's uptime reports you'll see that Linux isn't that hot. Just becuase a desktop linux box (that might be rebooted every night? every week?) stays up, doesn't mean that Linux is super-reliable.
Even slashdot's average uptime is 137 days, running very little apart from a perl interpreter and apache.
yes, but those modules are loaded into the kernel as needed, and if one of them fails, it will bring the kernel down with it. All you've done is reduce the startup time of the monolithic Linux kernel by removing stuff you don't want in favour of loading it on-demand.
and as Dr Tanenbaum says in the article, "they are as related as Windows 3.1 is to Windows XP. ie they share the same first name".
:-)
Minix 3 is a working microkernel. Now it just needs Stallman to come along and add some GNU apps to it to make it a complete OS
No, what you have at work is a distiction between lazy programmers who don't want to spend any time working on a maintainable solution, and others who are deluding themselves that they have more skill than that actually have.
:)
I exaggerate for effect of course
The good developers you want though, are ones who will write good code that is easy to understand, simple and effective. These will not write the sloppy code that just fixes the issue regardless of its long-term quality. These are the guys who would write the microkernel because it is a better system and wouldn't impact on development time whilst also giving better maintenance.
Microkernels aree not niche at all - read the article, he shows you a few that are much more widely used than the number of Linux installs. (ie, your mobile phone has a microkernel, as do Cisco routers)
Then what is Java, if not just another C++ with less features.
There are several branches to the programming tree, Prolog, Lisp and similar languages are one kind, Algol, C/C++ and Java are another. In all cases the degreee of productivity really lies in the hands of the programmer. Even a C programmer can be very productive, he'll just end up with a lot of library code that he reuses. With a tool like Ruby, someone has created these "library" routines for him.
So, for a new, or less experienced, developer, Ruby is the perfect language becauses "its so easy to use", but for the old, seasoned, developers who know how to program, its not much different. Doubly so as those old devs will be working on the difficult stuff that the Ruby tool doesn't provide built-in features for.
so, what innovation did C/C++ give us? General Purpose tools. The fact that these can turn their hand to anything, is, IMHO, the reason they're so popular today compared to any other language that can do X, Y, or Z better.
I have to assume that he is checking out other avenues, but asking /. is as good enough a place as any other to get leads that he will investigate further.
I imagine he's asking 'has anyone else evaluated these things, and which ones did you find were the best?'.
Alternatively, he's going to go suck up to his boss later with his "personal research on his own time".
Oh, if realism is your thing - Dr. Julia Kelly from The Peacemaker
Didn't do any science, but ran around in a short skirt being a bit pissed off at Clooney showing off, and looking quite shocked in a "you can't do that" way as he went around shooting things. Quite an understated performance I felt from a mass market thriller.
How coudl he be your favourite - he was an obviously sick and twisted individual. If I could make 'toys' like that, sure as hell they'd all look like Pris, not the funny dwarves.
;-)
hmm, that said - maybe they'd not be the 'basic' pleasure model
What!? Well, fair enough, but (althought the film wasn't, erm, the greatest), Dr. Chase Meridian certainly was.
:-)
Dark moody lighting, pale skin and red lipstick framed by her hair.. I'll better go turn the shower to the 'cold' setting...
I didn't get one of these threatenign emails, which is a pity as I have been a member of bluesecurity for a fair old while (well, since mailwasher added it to their anti-spam services).
:( but I'm sure it won't last.
I feel a bit left out now
Since Blue Security is now referring to "tier-1 ISP name withheld", that means one of several things:
4. They're going to be named in a lawsuit, and they don't want to prejudice it with media attention, or counter-suits of defamation.
5. They've contacted the ISP to resolve their issues and don't want to annoy them by publicising who they were.
If you can offer a RATIONAL explanation of why we have a greater interest in hiding technology than in using it, I'd love to hear it. Bonus points if you can explain why 100 years advanced military technology isn't being used in Iraq right now.
erm.. because it was all invented by Microsoft Research, and the NASA and DoD guys prefer Linux?
And don't forget bragging rights. Hey, I invented some feature. Sure, some guy debugged it, but I get to slap the label to it. I might even name it after me (Hello Mr. Reiser, if you should read this...). The guy who debugs it gets ... zip.
.. like "whoever wrote this should not be left anywhere near a brewery while a party is taking place".
Oh, I don't know... the guy who debugs it and fixes problerms could put nice comments in the code
Yes, yes, "borgheron", we all know its you Mr Tanenbaum, you don't need to hide behind a silly moniker. You're not *still* pissed at Torvalds after all these years are you? :-)
To include security fixes? I'd have said that was particularly important for something like a firewall appliance.
lol. Absolutely right. Imagine what will happen otherwise - we'll get "Andrew Morton suxors big time. We need to get rid of him and replace him with a real leader, someone like Mr Stallman".
:-)
Just imagine...
No way. I see it differently, its a fake website set up by CmdrTaco, partly to get some dosh for OSTG but partly to see how many of us clicked the link to actually read the article
I'm sorry to reply like this because you make a valid point, but consider your comment
"Now, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing (or a good thing, although a rather large part of me is saying "sounds like just deserts to me..."), just that with a side effect this damn obvious, it most certainly is their fault."
with
"He walked into the biker bar and said that only poofters rode bikes, he should have known he'd end up in hospital. Definitely was his own fault."
or
"My girlfriend asked if her bum looked big in the dress she wore, and I told her the truth that it did. Its my own fault I'm sleeping on the couch now.
but also
"She was wearing a really short skirt and revealing top, she should have known she'd get raped, it most certainly was her own fault"
or
"That Guardian Angel guy stepped in to stop the old lady being mugged by the gang, he should have known he'd get stabbed, it was his own fault"
Just because the world is a bad place, filled with bad people, doesn't mean we shouldn't support the victim, especially if they have put themselves in harms way for our benefit.
indeed. How much for the book? IBM's giving the information away for free: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library /wa-ajaxintro1.html
Good for you, only get yourself a new email account, and post using it to a forum somewhere asking "I'm really interested in Nigerian Teens selling Viagra in casinos. where can I find them?". Wait a couple of days and let BlueFrog go to town :-)
possibly Mailwasher (www.firetrust.com) which recently added BlueSecurity to their anti-spam providers (in addition to Spamhaus and SpamCop).
I guess this development has seen the number of BlueFrog users increase dramatically, which is probably what is pissing the spammers off.