you're all criticising this guy for not knowing about distributed kernels/obsd etc etc, when he was making a very simple point that is totally unrelated to the topic. it goes like this;
i know nothing about 'X' (no not that X), therefore i have no way of knowing whther X is useful or not.
it has nothing to do with oBSD or distributed kernels, just basic logic!
In the UK at least, well it used to be... erm...
Don't AOL charge per minute? Well they used to here at least, and as local calls have never been free in the UK we've virtually had metering through the phone bill (there are 0800 - freephone providers now, but that's only happened in the last year or so).
Did I make a point just then or just blather?
Same as the R.I.P act here in the UK. It's supposedly to catch 'terrorists, drug lords and paedophiles' (everyone's pet crime atm). So they're going to have _all_ our net traffic going through their version of carnivore, which will be installed in all the major ISPs. Hmm.. well that's okay the people say, after all it's just to catch the terrorists, drug lords and paedophiles, so what have we to worry about? PEOPLE USE ENCRYPTION! Well if you don't give the government your key when requested you get 2 years in prison...
1. Is anyone who is guilty of one of these major crimes going to give two shits whther they go to prison for two years? I think not compared to the alternative.
2. Threfore, the only people who the law is effective against are the innocent, and people who have committed crimes which carry a sentence of under 2 years, ie. relatively minor crimes.
Dont believe the hype
Although I accept that there is more functionality in X, I don't accept that it is more useable. I would say that the main problem in the GUI's (I did mean GUI, I just took it as read that as we were talking about X and Windows that we were ralking about the GUI rather than the command line) that I've used on X (mostly KDE and Gnome, with a bit of SGIs one for IRIX, whatever that's called) is not so much X itself (there my annoyance is with the speed and size of the app), but with the way the default install in the distros I've used (mostly Suse) is that there is no standard way to do most tasks (yeh yeh, i know that's what hackers want, but i'm talking about _users_. People slate the control panel, but I think it's a perfect idea for a gui, i mean does it not make sense that all the settings are in one place? instead of searching through a hundred different config files for the item you are looking for, without having to know which part of the OS deals with that setting?
Sorry for rambling (and the number of brackets) i've just been for a couple of lunchtime pints at the pub... *hic*
point:
- make it simple by default so _users_ can use it.
- give people who know what they are doing the option to hack away at the system, it doesn't need to be default, the default should be the newbie settings.
- the unix like OSs tend to have it too far the other way, leaving newbies (and not _so_ newbies) disorientated.
- burn X, or at least re-write it, it's big and sloppy, and smells:))
Absolutely, as with most people here, I'd like to dump windows tomorrow, but the *n*x OSs really are going to have to sort out these 2 points before they will dent Windows.
I was really talking about using desktops because it just feels sluggish, which does make a difference. I'd love to have the time to really learn about unix rather than just being able to muddle throughm but like most users, I mainly use a computer to accomplish specific tasks (in my case mostly web dev/animation) and can't put aside the time to _really_ learn unix... *sigh*:)
I'm no real hacker, I can barely write asp, php and javascript, or pascal (a wee bit of experience in each), but i love the _principles_ behind *n*x. The point is, these systems wont be ready for workstations (other than for developers/sysadmins) until you have the _choice_ between simple easy setup/gui and delving a little deeper ala unix.
That's why (despite my better instincts!) I'm very interested in what Apple are doing with BSD, I mean, a BSD based OS with and Apple GUI? F'King superb!;) I just hope they don't introduce too many kludges to emulate the old MacOS way of working....
Truth is half the reason that Linux hasn't wiped the floor with windows is because of it's lack of ease of use.
X sucks and that's a fact, yeah it's nice that it can serve across a network, but in truth how many people actually use that feature on a regular basis?
X is incredibly sluggish and ugly (look at the fucking redraws,, euch), and so far there hasn't been a UI that comes close to the useability of Win2K or MacOS.
I hate M$ as much as the next man, and I happily use my Linux/OpenBSD box for development/local serving, but until someone designs a decent Graphical shell and a decent UI it wont take over from my 2K box, simply because much of the work I do revolves around being able to use an efficient UI.
I know Win* is patronising and I hate it too, but I can also drop my pride and realise that I can work faster and more efficiently with it. And commandlines are great if all you do is sysadmin, but then if everyonm was administering systems who the fuck is meant to use them?
And don't even get me started on hardware detection.... "But you should be able to configure your hardware yourself" no i shouldn't fucking _HAVE TO_, for chrissakes if microsoft programmers are so inferior to the linux world wtf is no-one capable of writing decent hardware detection and setup??? (actually SuSE have done a reasonable job with PCI, but very little else...)
Slashdot Mirror
£7 is more like $12
:)
/picky
and yes it's extortionate isn't it?
erm... nice one junk filter.. it spread my little (ish) sig out over 13 lines...fs
apologies
Ok most of the time I wouldn't want to listen to half of the pop on Radio 1, but at least they tell you whats playing/played...
I suppose there's something to be said for public broadcasting..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/
-Tolan.
--
Ooh look! MYSITE!!
quick come check!!
mustseemustsee..!!
:p
http://covertops.org
--
someone's been reading Gibson shorts.... :)
Telewest _are_ in London (as Cable London).
;)
picky but hey
i'd say that pretty much qualifies as racist.. not as much as that dickhead posting about the bnp below tho
i agree completely, he was replying like a churlish child.
(and i use oBSD and SuSE Linux so ner!)
dumbass, that's not the point is it?
you're all criticising this guy for not knowing about distributed kernels/obsd etc etc, when he was making a very simple point that is totally unrelated to the topic. it goes like this;
i know nothing about 'X' (no not that X), therefore i have no way of knowing whther X is useful or not.
it has nothing to do with oBSD or distributed kernels, just basic logic!
*sigh*
wouldn't your work in the UK still count as prior art in the US?
I dunno, just wondering..
bull, it's easy to compare apples and oranges, see here : !
In the UK at least, well it used to be... erm...
Don't AOL charge per minute? Well they used to here at least, and as local calls have never been free in the UK we've virtually had metering through the phone bill (there are 0800 - freephone providers now, but that's only happened in the last year or so).
Did I make a point just then or just blather?
Bitch, you beat me to it :))
Joan Cartwright?
hmm....
Nono wait, i think i got it....ummm
Same as the R.I.P act here in the UK. It's supposedly to catch 'terrorists, drug lords and paedophiles' (everyone's pet crime atm). So they're going to have _all_ our net traffic going through their version of carnivore, which will be installed in all the major ISPs. Hmm.. well that's okay the people say, after all it's just to catch the terrorists, drug lords and paedophiles, so what have we to worry about? PEOPLE USE ENCRYPTION! Well if you don't give the government your key when requested you get 2 years in prison... 1. Is anyone who is guilty of one of these major crimes going to give two shits whther they go to prison for two years? I think not compared to the alternative. 2. Threfore, the only people who the law is effective against are the innocent, and people who have committed crimes which carry a sentence of under 2 years, ie. relatively minor crimes. Dont believe the hype
rag week?
win2k > vastly improved NT4 winME > newest version of win95/98 with some graphical features nicked from 2k whistler > win2k+win95/98/me
no, this is why you can now afford a computer...
yes
doesn't win2k already have a networkable desktop ala X? A friend who works in VB/SQL/ASP dev told me it did....?
'Interface Design'
:)
yes they are ahead, and ahead of linux GUIs too unfortunately.
Just needs MORE DAMN BUTTONS!!!
(and a proper OS underneath the GUI,.... hey what's that you say? BSD under OSX? kewl
I disagree.
:))
Although I accept that there is more functionality in X, I don't accept that it is more useable. I would say that the main problem in the GUI's (I did mean GUI, I just took it as read that as we were talking about X and Windows that we were ralking about the GUI rather than the command line) that I've used on X (mostly KDE and Gnome, with a bit of SGIs one for IRIX, whatever that's called) is not so much X itself (there my annoyance is with the speed and size of the app), but with the way the default install in the distros I've used (mostly Suse) is that there is no standard way to do most tasks (yeh yeh, i know that's what hackers want, but i'm talking about _users_. People slate the control panel, but I think it's a perfect idea for a gui, i mean does it not make sense that all the settings are in one place? instead of searching through a hundred different config files for the item you are looking for, without having to know which part of the OS deals with that setting?
Sorry for rambling (and the number of brackets) i've just been for a couple of lunchtime pints at the pub... *hic*
point:
- make it simple by default so _users_ can use it.
- give people who know what they are doing the option to hack away at the system, it doesn't need to be default, the default should be the newbie settings.
- the unix like OSs tend to have it too far the other way, leaving newbies (and not _so_ newbies) disorientated.
- burn X, or at least re-write it, it's big and sloppy, and smells
Absolutely, as with most people here, I'd like to dump windows tomorrow, but the *n*x OSs really are going to have to sort out these 2 points before they will dent Windows.
:)
;) I just hope they don't introduce too many kludges to emulate the old MacOS way of working....
I was really talking about using desktops because it just feels sluggish, which does make a difference. I'd love to have the time to really learn about unix rather than just being able to muddle throughm but like most users, I mainly use a computer to accomplish specific tasks (in my case mostly web dev/animation) and can't put aside the time to _really_ learn unix... *sigh*
I'm no real hacker, I can barely write asp, php and javascript, or pascal (a wee bit of experience in each), but i love the _principles_ behind *n*x. The point is, these systems wont be ready for workstations (other than for developers/sysadmins) until you have the _choice_ between simple easy setup/gui and delving a little deeper ala unix.
That's why (despite my better instincts!) I'm very interested in what Apple are doing with BSD, I mean, a BSD based OS with and Apple GUI? F'King superb!
Point mate.
Truth is half the reason that Linux hasn't wiped the floor with windows is because of it's lack of ease of use.
X sucks and that's a fact, yeah it's nice that it can serve across a network, but in truth how many people actually use that feature on a regular basis?
X is incredibly sluggish and ugly (look at the fucking redraws,, euch), and so far there hasn't been a UI that comes close to the useability of Win2K or MacOS.
I hate M$ as much as the next man, and I happily use my Linux/OpenBSD box for development/local serving, but until someone designs a decent Graphical shell and a decent UI it wont take over from my 2K box, simply because much of the work I do revolves around being able to use an efficient UI.
I know Win* is patronising and I hate it too, but I can also drop my pride and realise that I can work faster and more efficiently with it. And commandlines are great if all you do is sysadmin, but then if everyonm was administering systems who the fuck is meant to use them?
And don't even get me started on hardware detection.... "But you should be able to configure your hardware yourself" no i shouldn't fucking _HAVE TO_, for chrissakes if microsoft programmers are so inferior to the linux world wtf is no-one capable of writing decent hardware detection and setup??? (actually SuSE have done a reasonable job with PCI, but very little else...)
Bit slow mate, It's been passed now and is an Act
So as soon as they install the hardware the gov't will be able to read _anyones_ email....
which is why i got Freedom
Slight/Tolan