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QNX Realtime Platform Now Available
A reader writes "The QNX development platform is now available. It's available in three versions: the Windows-based self-extracting installer, the ISO image and the QNX4 install archive" You can also get it from QNX's site itself.
My point was that you do not need to recompile the kernel in order to change hardware.
--
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
It is not real easy to use kernel drivers between different versions.
If you mean binary drivers, then yes.
Okay, that means that there is a very close relation between the kernel and the driver
Again, yes.
That means that the kernel is monolithic
No. What makes the kernel monolithic is that the drivers are not separate userspace processes.
For example, my NVIDIA drivers required me to downgrade a kernel version and recompile in order to work properly
Your NVIDIA drivers are broken. Go bitch at the provider of your closed, propriatory hardware.
Who said anything about ALSA? I was talking about OSS.
Actually you said that a kernel recompile was necessary in order to change sound hardware. ALSA trivially demonstrates that that isn't true. Even if you are talking about OSS, you still don't need to change your kernel. You made an incorrect claim.
For example, iptables often requires patches to the kernel.
That's because iptables is part of the development kernel. It's a beta. It's not guaranteed to work. If you don't want to have to apply patches, then use a stable kernel.
My aformentioned NVIDIA drivers are terribly closely tied to the kernel version.
From the above, I assume you're using a 2.4 kernel. This is still in development, and as a result the API will change without warning. If the NVIDIA driver was part of the kernel then it would be fixed as the API changes were made and there wouldn't be a problem. If you don't want to deal with that sort of thing yourself, stop using development kernels.
I can't take my sidwinder driver from one kernel and stick it into another.
Which sidewinder driver? If you're talking about the binary module produced from the kernel joystick drivers, then I've already explained that there has never been any guarantee that the binary API of the kernel would remain consistant.
You got to the heart of the problem. There is no stable driver API. That encourages a close connection between driver and kernel. That means it is a monolithic kernel. I don't care if I'm using the term wrong from a technical point of view (though I'm not, Linux IS monolithic technically) but I'm using from a "English" point of view.
(Warning - analogy ahead)
BeOS is a Microsoft operating system. I don't care if I'm using the term wrong from the technical point of view, but BeOS's closed model and pretty graphics demonstrate that I'm right when using it from an "English" point of view.
You can't redefine technical terms in a technical discussion. Yes, Linux is monolithic. No, this is not the reason that it has no consistant binary driver API. Would you call a microkernel that had the same "feature" monolithic? If so, you're an idiot. If not, your argument falls down.
n/m . . . I found it. %-)
--
I dont fuck goats, I'm from montana. we fuck sheep.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
you trying to compare things that can't be compared, like saying a $80k porche is better than a $80k semi-truck. Damn right the porche is faster when you punch the gas, but try hauling 10 tons of cargo on a porche.
QNX is made for perticular tasks in a real-time environment, Linux is made for complex tasks with powerfull hardware(i mean more than a 15mhz chip and 256k ram).
You can't compare the two. An RTLinux is just a spin to make linux quicker and more responsive.
I work at QNX - anyone looking for official statements should look to the QNX web site and ignore what I have to say. That said:
The license agreement makes the lawyers happy but greatly overstates the case. Most of the core technology in the RTP as it stands today is released and fully supported by QNX both for development and runtime application (QNX Neutrino OS, core Photon GUI, compiler and libs, voyager web browser etc).
What is not released are some of the other components that make for a better installation experience or a more rounded desktop development environment but are probably not ready yet for commercial release. I say probably because there are bound to be people out there for whom the RTP just plain doesn't work. There will be some hardware, some way in which its used, that we just hadn't anticipated or seen before.
Given the number of people out there who will try it, there will probably be a whole lot of cases like that. There's only so much we can cover in the lab.
With useful feedback from the community to guide us hopefully we will be able to bring the remaining components to release quality in short order.
It is. It takes 5 minutes.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
RTLinux ~10 microseconds
QNX ~0.8 microseconds
I knew about RTLinux's benchmark and knew QNX was better, but damn that is good... I'm assuming this is on identical hardware?
RTLinux is a soft realtime platform if I'm not mistaken. It's a patched uClinux (does it patch against regular Linux?) which basically runs the kernel as "just another" process, which means your process(es) can pre-empt it. What kind of voodoo magic is QNX doing? Can RTLinux approach the 1uS mark?
Tell me if you get it working; I haven't tried QNX at all.
Sure, let's move to there...
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
it's not supposed to replace your os, dork
.oO0Oo.
it's for embedded devices
the mythical network toaster & friends
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
BeOS and QNX are specialists, of course they're going to outperform Linux in their specialities (or they wouldn't be up to much). Outside their niches they don't compete at all. It's pretty silly trying to compare them in the first place.
I wish people wouldn`t confuse QNX 4 (which is on the demo disk) and QNX RtP. The newest release is QNX RtP which is based on the newer Neutrino kernel. The idea of QNX RtP was to take the stuff that made QNX 4 great and make it into a scaleable desktop/handheld OS. And I managed to get through all that without mentioning the amiga community :)
I love it. I probobly used, about every OS operating systems out there, and so far, I think QNX has one of the nices interfaces out there. Hopefully It will get some following from open source community.
Driver is called "banshee.o". Web site says it supports Banshees and Voodoo3 (?!?). No mention of Voodoo2 or SLI. No other supported video card has 3D support. Ummm... guess the Quake and Unreal ports included with the thing aren't going to be all that and a bag of potato chips.
Edith Keeler Must Die
I recieved my copy of the Mac OS X Public Beta today, as well as the develement tools. (I'm a member of the ADC)
According to Apple, the dev tools (gcc/g++, InterfaceBuilder, ProjectBuilder and a bunch of little apps) will be available for free on-line. It will require a free registration. I believe sometime in October, but don't quote me on that.
Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
I'm making a mirror the RTP for people wanting to
download in Australia/New Zealand (only, sorry)
ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/qnx/qnxrtp/
http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/qnx/qnxrtp/
-jason
I actually spent the summer working with QNX (for robotic systems) and it is pretty cool. It is drastically different from any other *nix I've played with (granted thats fairly limited) but if you read the docs its managable.
One thing I've been wondering though is will livid work with it? If so, perhaps it will make the dvd's actually watchable in a unix environment. On my PIII 650 laptop the dvd playback keeps getting prempted by the kernel, and skips. Annoying.
Well, writing the driver for Linux, you most likely could recompile it for QNX (or reuse much of the code, anyway...). So therefore RTLinux doesn't really have a great benefit, since most of that code should also compile using QNX.
Yeah, Linux for real time. Soft real time requirements, is doable, probably. Hard real time with narrow time requirements for processing and such ?
Not really...
You're right that there's some FUD in that article, but it wasn't written by Be. The Be engineers know what they're talking about, but some of the fans go overboard a bit.
If it took me 4 hours to compile a kernel I think my arm would get sore.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Thanks for repeating exactly the same links that appear in the article write-up. You sure helped a lot of people that way.
Microsoft isn't a real word. However, you COULD say that it was commercial, proprietory, closed-source, or anything inbetween. For example, you can say it is object oriented. It doesn't actually have an object model, and it doesn't treat everything as an object (which is what object orientation technically means), but the OS is built on a set of objects, so the claim is still true.
Monolithic IS a real word. Something monolithic is anything that is one large, closely connected mass. Even if the kernel ran drivers as seprate processes, if there was a super-close connection between the two, then it would still be monolithic. I would consider something modular if it had a set of clearly defined, more or less invariant interfaces between components, even if the thing was one honking large binary.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
No, actually I'm not. I'm not saying QNX *should* by released GPL, I'm just saying it'd be cool if something like QNX was GPLled.
--------
"I already have all the latest software."
There is no Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt in this message.
Linux uses a monolithic kernel, that is a fact. Sure, Linux has LKMs, but those were only a hack because the kernel was growing too big...
Even after the LKM *hack*, a lot of people still find it necessary to use BZ2 to compress their kernel because it's still too big.
Sure, you can switch *some* hardware without recompiling, but only that which is already a module...
Rebooting to install hardware is dumb and shouldn't be necessary.
-- atomly
Point of order: BeNews != Be, Inc.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
With risk of being redundant . . . QNX has a 1.44M Demodisk you can download for free. It's pretty sweet. It boots off a floppy, resides in flash RAM, has a GUI, a web browser, server (this is new), TCP/IP and a few applications. Yes, all on a 1.44M floppy. I used to play with this back when it first came out but it looks like they've really made some strides with it.
:-)
Might hold you over till the CDs come out.
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One. They say when you boot, you get a choice of Windows or QNX. Does that mean lilo or grub would get overwritten? Has anyone tried it on a system that was already dual boot?
Two. Is there any way to install on a Linux machine without repartitioning?
BP6tastic :)
Apparently not...
Slashdot is just useless these days.
So what's up?
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
Read the FAQ. Their opinions are stated in plain view:
Q: Why doesn't QNX provide source to the kernel and other core OS modules?
A: Because QNX developers don't need kernel source to extend the OS.
Anyone who's ever done serious work in embedded systems know the kernel source is absolutely essential for debugging, not only the application but also the kernel. All OSes contain kernel bugs. They're a pain to find and fix without source, and those of us who've been there are not going back lightheartedly. You all know this, that's why we're embracing open source. How come so many of you are now eager to jump back into the dark hole that is proprietary software?
For embedded work, there's ECOS already. It's Free Software and runs on a dozen different CPUs, with new ports coming all the time. If you want the 3D acceleration, anti-aliases graphics and macromedia player, you're probably not looking for embedded stuff in the first place.
Sure, QNX is fun. Play away. But it isn't the future.
Beos is dead?
.. you are dead ... :)
oh my god.
I think there are so much new thing coming out that it's impossible to say so.
If you need to change your os every moth
Try posting at the qnx news server inn.qnx.com
Don't quote me on this, but I had heard rumours about HP-UX being able to recompile it's kernal on the fly (taking it down to single user mode)
Not real sure on any of the details, probably just vapour-ware I guess
The problem, btw, was PCMCIA. Booting with a 3C option got me to a shell, but starting photon kills the keyboard. Grr. Time to try on a desktop machine.
Continue in sid=pb?
If karma were so dear to me, then wouldn't I too post this anonymously? But I'm not, so something must be amiss.
You're conflating two different problems, here. Read slashdot's faq, and you'll find that Rob explicitly asks people with the +1 bonus to use it liberally, so that they can continually be judged as worthy or unworthy to maintain its use. A true karmawhore and coward would only use it when hoping to gain karma, while posting at 1 or as AC (such as you have done) when expressing controversial opinions. And I'll kindly remind you that your ad-hominem slanderous attack of 'karmawhore' does nothing to refute my original argument.
Being a respected poster on slashdot isn't about selling your soul for a small incrementing integer (karma). It's about making informed comments, insightful retorts to errors, and interesting analogies to external experiences. At the end of the day, ask yourself whether you've contributed or detracted from slashdot's signal to noise ratio. If only others took as much care as I do, the world would be a better place.
Sean
Why can't the transit system be this efficient?
QNX == Cool hackware, sold by hackers to users, on their own money. Demand and features are market driven.
Mass transit == A bad hack, forced on unsuspecting users by politicians, with the users money. Demand and features both artificially inflated and deflated by same politicians who also ensure they are the only game in town.
.sig: Now legally binding!
Their download site seems to be down. Sucky
Wasn't this preview based on an ancient beta?
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
The beta was released only a few weeks before this one.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Having an embeded system that you're comfortable with on a home system can outweight an exactly tailored `solution` (ha! ha!).
--Giving to trolls for the benefit of us all
jeez, moderators, you call this flamebait ??!!!!
If the guy said windows partition instead of BeOS partition then you would have moderated it as 'Insightful' or 'Funny"...
oh, well....
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
Ha ha! He just did, in the very post that you're flaming (except that he didn't really say microkernels are better; all he did was prove it, and then let you draw your own conclusion). And that reason is: GPLed drivers (e.g. ALSA) run in their own address space (instead of linking with the kernel) thereby avoiding the possibility of GPL violation if QNX wants to keep the kernel source closed. I bet Sun wishes Solaris could do that.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Can anyone explain me, please, what's the difference between a tar.F file and an ISO image there. QNX site says that add-on stuff is on the disk. So, if it is 91 megs in size, does it mean the stuff is there? On the other hand, tar.F file is only 24 megs long. Does it mean it is just so well compressed or it has fewer packages than on the disk. I'm confused.
I only had two points. I'm not talking about monolithic in the technical sense (I rarely talk about anything in the strict technical sense) but in the end-result sense. One often has to recompile the kernel in order to insert new hardware. This is because there is a close association with the hardware and the drivers. Thus, it is monolithic. The fact that a kernel upgrade requires me to recompile doesn't surprise me, the fact that I have to recompile the modules as well does. This implies way to close of a link between kernel and driver. The vast-majority of the cases may be true for trival hardware, but is decidely not true for major items like video-cards and sound cards.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Not really. There's a *lot* of geeks that use something other than RedHat (eg. *BSD, Debian, SuSE, BeOS, QNX, Solaris, to name a few)
--------
"I already have all the latest software."
Why not just download it -)
Get.qnx.com is the way to go.
Exactly why I can play more than a dozen MP3s (14 or 15 on my PII 300) on BeOS (which btw has a two year old version of GCC) while Linux chokes on a measly half-dozen? Also why I can go along not even noticing that some wayard process is chewing up 100% of my CPU, while something like a big compile or untar job makes GNOME noticablly choppier?
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
A disk driver in QNX deals with the disk interface and disk, and leaves the job of putting a file system (DOS, QNX, Linux) on top of it to a file system DLL. QNX supports DOS, QNX and Linux filesystems on disk, and some others that are found on CD-ROMS and yet other file systems over networks.
The first thing I'd do is wipe my Linux partition...
--------
"I already have all the latest software."
"bzImage" stands for Big Compressed (z) image. The actual compression used is vanilla zlib I think.
If you don't have a clue what you're talking about, PLEASE don't post. The S/N ratio is bad enough as it is.
That was unnecessary.
RTLinux is in no way related to uClinux. uCLinux is a version of the linux kernel that runs on machines without a MMU. RTLinux runs on Alpha, PPC, and x86. Of course, a version of RTLinux could be made for uCLinux, if you needed a realtime OS for machines without a MMU.
I KNOW what uClinux is, and I knew that RTLinux was affilliated (associated, worked, take your pick) with it in some way. Whether RTLinux was a patch off uClinux and then ported to "regular" Linux, or a patch to Linux and then ported to uClinux was the question.
Of course, a version of RTLinux could be made for uCLinux, if you needed a realtime OS for machines without a MMU.
Here's were you're spewing disinformation. There already IS an RTLinux patch for uClinux. Go back and read my question before claiming I know nothing while at the same time claiming the opposite yourself.
Well, FUD or well intended ignorance. The author didn't seem terribly knowledgeable about Linux, though he's certainly read some things about it.
He also says that Linux software is mostly distributed in source form (pardon the gross paraphrase and omitted quote). He didn't seem to be aware of binary packages which are the way most people deal with software packages. (Personally, I reach for the source at the first sign of trouble with binaries anyway.)
The impression I get is that he just don't know a lot first-hand about Linux.
I am constantly amazed at the amount of really cool, really quality stuff, that people, real companies even, are pumping out for free. For a "free" OS, the QNX developers sure have put a lot of effort into something that wouldn't seem to me to generate any profit for them. According to the BeNews review, QNX looks and feels slick and trim. I am amazed at how much effort was put into making this a functional desktop OS. Add to that their full POSIX compliance and their (eventual if not immediate) open sourcing of a lot of the code.
Not to slight BeOS. BeOS is amazing as well. I think we geeks have it pretty damn good. I just wish I had enough machines and a big enough internet connection to play around with all these freebies.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
They are a mirror now
Yeps, but where is Quake3 for Plan9 -)
And does Plan9 support the same thing with screens?
--
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
I am currently posting this from QNX, right now. It installed in a few minutes on a 1GB partition (didn't try smaller, but it seems that 500M would have been more than enough). It is very fast. (For the record, I am running an Athlon 700 with a GeForce 2 GTS, so... even windows is very fast.) The web browser displays slashdot nicely, and all of the fonts are beautiful. They get even better if you turn on antialiasing, :-), but even without it they are far better than X. The network installer seems a bit flaky (it seems to display different packages at different times), but it does not seem to be much of a problem. Actually, all of the network code seems a bit flaky... but it seems to autoconfigure itself and fix whatever is wrong (i'm using a dhcp cable modem.) While typing, I just connected to IRC succesfully... (first time.) Lastly, the GUI is... cool. Try it, it's a small download compared to ... even BeOS.
--
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
Blue sky warning here. How hard would it be to checkpoint a kernel?
What I'm after is a way of bringing a machine down in such a way that application processes can be frozen, a new kernel swapped in, and the applications unthawed.
It all comes down to is how much kernel state a process has; by definition very little. It has at most handles for internal kernel datastructures. So as long as the two kernel versions know enough about each other to translate those, you shouldn't need to reboot a machine to upgrade the kernel.
The big thing I've overlooked is hardware state; things like BIOS/network/whatever. These services will likely need to be restarted.
Thoughts?
FYI a Linux based install *does* exist but was not deemed ready for release. QNX is "driven by market demand", so demand away...
I am posting this from QNX. Wow,the .exe install was amazingly easy. It doesn't say on the QNX website that the Athlon works, but it sure does.
This is worth the download!
-- ERICmurphy -- www.jabber.org for open-source, XML-based IM
Please email me ... I'm interested in discussing BeOS with you.
.88 magnum -- it goes through schools.
--
It's a
--
It's a
-- Danny Vermin
I knew I should have downloaded it right away when I tried to submit the story myself... There's another one for the "doh!" heap. I should have realized it was only a matter of time before the site was slashdotted.
-- [insert sig here]
How is this FUD ?
The linux kernel is monolithic. BeOS and QNX (AFAIK) are not.
since when is (FUD == FACT)
Big wow; the effeciency of things like this has nothing to do with the OS, just the compiler.
Scheduling it so it always gets the CPU exactly when it needs it, that's a different matter, but 2% on decoding an MP3's nothing special.
Well, unless you're on a Z80. Or a Cyrix.
I just installed it on a k6-2 500 with 64M and its flying- Ultra responsive in launching and switching programs.! Redrawing in voyager with the cheapy agp card in this box isn't hot, but reasonable.
I haven't had time to really dig deep but I am very impressed so far.
QNXStart.com is a new third party developers forum for QNX. Unfortunately it is not a mirror site
But it has some downloads: Gimp,ICQ,AbiWord among others. By the way, some other sites of interest:
NNTP: inn.qnx.com
WWW: support.qnx.com
USENET: comp.os.qnx
Really, Linux is monolithic. Sure it has kernel modules, but they can't be reliably used between kernel versions. So often times, upgrading the kernel or changing the hardware (in case you haven't compiled that driver for your kernel before) usually requires a kernel recompile.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
How do you melt a frozen file?
;)
melt foo.F
This
Has anyone been able to boot QNX on VMware? It dies hard after the bootloader finished loading the kernel. Here is the dump from the log. Maybe it dosent like the VMware virtual IDE cdrom drive.
/dev/cdrom failed: Invalid argument
/dev/cdrom failed: Invalid argument
/dev/cdrom failed: Invalid argument
c fm".
:)
Sep 25 21:25:16: License OK
Sep 25 21:25:16: Booting virtual machine
Sep 25 21:25:16:
Sep 25 21:25:17: VBE call 0x4f02 bx 0x0007 cx 0x03d5 es 0xffff di 0x0000
Sep 25 21:25:17: VBE: VGA Mode switch to 7
Sep 25 21:25:18: VBE call 0x4f02 bx 0x0003 cx 0x03c2 es 0xffff di 0x0000
Sep 25 21:25:18: VBE: VGA Mode switch to 3
Sep 25 21:25:18: VBE call 0x4f02 bx 0x0012 cx 0x03b5 es 0x01c1 di 0x7b96
Sep 25 21:25:18: VBE: VGA Mode switch to 18
Sep 25 21:25:27: VBE call 0x4f02 bx 0x0003 cx 0x0925 es 0x6888 di 0x69c1
Sep 25 21:25:27: VBE: VGA Mode switch to 3
Sep 25 21:25:33: DISK/CDROM timeout of 2.673 seconds (ok)
Sep 25 21:25:39: ATAPI_CDROM: read for
Sep 25 21:25:39: DISK/CDROM timeout of 5.237 seconds (ok)
Sep 25 21:25:41: ATAPI_CDROM: read for
Sep 25 21:25:42: DISK/CDROM timeout of 1.345 seconds (ok)
Sep 25 21:25:43: ATAPI_CDROM: read for
Sep 25 21:25:43: DISK/CDROM timeout of 1.204 seconds (ok)
Sep 25 21:25:45: DISK/CDROM timeout of 1.140 seconds (ok)
Sep 25 21:25:49: DISK/CDROM timeout of 1.225 seconds (ok)
Sep 25 21:25:53: F(128):1445 warning 0080:ff812c0f MOV (was 3407) count 0
Sep 25 21:25:53: NOT_IMPLEMENTED at 0x25d8e 1923
Sep 25 21:25:53: MONITOR ERROR NOT_IMPLEMENTED at 0x25d8e 1923
Sep 25 21:25:53: Coredump with build $Name: build-621 $
Sep 25 21:25:53: Writing monitor corefile 'vmware-core'
Sep 25 21:25:54: Msg_Post Error: msg.log.monpanic
*** VMware Workstation internal monitor error ***
NOT_IMPLEMENTED at 0x25d8e 1923
Please report this problem by selecting Help > Support, or by going to "http://www.vmware.com/forms/workstation/support.
Please provide us with the log file (/home/username/vmware/QNX/QNX.log) and the core file (vmware-core) from the current directory (/home/username/vmware/QNX).
If the problem is repeatable, please set the logging level to `Debug' in the Misc panel. Then reproduce the incident and file it according to instructions.
We appreciate your feedback
-- the VMware Workstation team
Sep 25 21:26:15: changing state 0 from 1872 to 1870
Sep 25 21:26:15: MainPowerOff-- Shutting down devices
Hope someone out there has got it to boot on vmware
--fatboy
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Make that Bagnell Dam. I've been there many times as a kid.
--Somewhere there is a village missing an idiot.
-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-
My mom's going to kick you in the face!
i installed QNX from the ISO. after some troubles getting it to boot, i eventually got into the photon microgui. "this is pretty slick" i thought. i was amazed to discover my SB Live! was supported. unfortunately, my tulip compatible network card wasn't working. i decided that if it wasn't going to work with my network card, it wasn't worth it.
/mbr", i feel better already.
that's when i decided to go back to windows. unfortunately, i was unable to ascertain from the QNX bootloader how to actually do this. i tried lots of options and keystrokes that i thought might help, but to no avail. all i could do was make QNX start to load and then fail. (i had gotten into it originally with some sort of safe mode).
so, i busted out the trusty ol' redhat 6.2 cd (remembering there was an emergency boot option). too bad you can't install lilo using that... after unsuccessfully trying, i said, "fuck it. i'll just install a base RH 6.2 over my QNX partition". i told it to reformat the partition as ext2 and install no packages. little did i know that RH would just sit there if you didn't choose any packages. *sigh*
fortunately, it did delete the QNX partition, which left the QNX bootloader with no choice but to throw me back into WinMe. after a quick "fdisk
Before the site was slashdotted, I think I remember reading that gcc was included with either the base package or available as an add-on.
If you build it, it'll be there...
-- [insert sig here]
I like the interface much better then BeOS, but BeOS is obviously ahead of the game in terms of hardware support and stability. The desktop for QNX is pretty interesting and instantly more usable then BeOS. The browser also kicks the living crap out of NetPositive. Another nice plus is the package installer for adding add-ons to QNX. That's pretty slick, but again not very stable - bombing itself twice and being unable to open various packages from the online repository. On the networking note, supports DHCP which had me up and running with no config whatsoever.
On another note, I installed the OS X beta on my G4 today. I was initially impressed with the UI but got annoyed with it rather quickly. Also annoying is using classic apps in OS X as launch time is nearly a minute or two and speed lags well behind. On the plus side, network config was a snap, and the UI does have a few nice things to be said about it, but I felt like a six year old after awhile, which isn't a good feeling. No development tools though!
A more accurate statement would be that the Linux kernel is a monolithic kernel, which, unlike the QNX microkernel, does not provide MMU protection of core OS processes. This also makes it much easier to write and debug QNX device drivers.
You can debate the definition of "monolithic" and talk about "kernel modules" all day long, but the fact is that the Linux kernel all runs in the same memory space, so it is a less robust design than a microkernel. (Note that I said robust _design_ not implementation. It is possible to write a crappy microkernel).
BeZealots!=Linux Zealots. They're just as passionate, but realize when that their OS isn't perfect for everyone.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Unlike some OSs, QNX is not monolithic. ALSA is just a module somewhere above kernel space, so its not actually part of the OS proper.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Linux is not built to be realtime. The current move to make linux realtime is flawed. QNX was designed from the start to be realtime Linux was not. If you read in any embedded system magazine they laugh at the idea of Linux being realtime. Its not its purpose and never will be. Linux is great for servers, possibly desktop, but not embedded apps. In fact most embedded apps have no OS at all. The Linux zealots will tey to put Linux on anything they can but its not always the best solution.
Bullshit. If someone posts a world-readable file on a publicly accessable web server, then that file is legally viewable by the public.
If you want people to go through predefined other pages in order to get to the file, there are many techical methods to ensure that people do so.
Trying to legally intimidate people into following your own set of 'rules' about how they access your web pages is like posting a billboard and demanding that people only look at it from the angles you want them to.
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Anyone know what (duuuh heck) this is?
skunk:~$ file qnxrtp.tar.F
qnxrtp.tar.F: frozen file 2.1
skunk:~$
Anyway, for the sake of Tucow's bandwidth, I'm mirroring the file here. MD5 sum = 316236554639edf717a94026ee940812.
iSKUNK!
D'oh! Guess the ISO is the way to go, then :-)
Tucows doesn't seem to be running slow at all, but if others disagree, here's a little something that should help:
File: qnxrtp.iso
Size: 95911936
MD5 sum: 75c8dc3a42f80a85ef8c733a317d8ebd
iSKUNK!
I wonder if they tried to beat RedHat to their 7.0 release.. it would of almost been better for the excitement of RH7 release to calm down a little bit.. but I think that it may of rained on their parade.
--------------------
it's fast .. clean ... it remidns me beos.
... but with linux you can do a lot more.
.. do I need to trash Beos ? I think no. I'll have Unix networking with a nice GUI (linux far away .. NOW) and a solid OpenGL (better then linux asap for Be is out .. not too far).
... but too different from BeOS and if compared to linux for SOMETHING is better.
... we don't need another OS to waste energy .. Linux and Beos are growing so nicely now.
...
but beos is more advanced not not "old style" unix.
anyway qnx is better then linux for it's quality of code
with Bone and OpenGL coming to Beos
Qnx is kewl anyway
I'm getting bored of changing OS
Qnx will be a toy in the desktop
You sound really hostile. Did QNX steal your lunch money as a child, or something?
I signed up for one of the free cds, any idea when they will start shipping? I'm looking forward for another OS to play with.
"My head hurts, My feet stink, and I dont love Jesus." -Jimmy Buffett
So it's really the player, not the OS that's effecient in this case. Which is really what I meant - OS is unlikely to effect something like this beyond some fancy priority stuff, and maybe threading/IPC.
I've yet to try it though.. wonder if it has SMP support...
Check the preview on BeNews here. They have screenshots and everything.
BTW, BeOS is better than QNX. Seriously.
Interesting, what QNX calls a filesystem driver, the rest of the world calls a disk (i.e. scsi or ide) driver. I guess that means that QNX only supports one file system, or they just call file system drivers something else (further compounding the confusion).
--
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
QNX without watcom?? whats up with that noise??
Future battles will be waged in the embedded market, not the desktop market. If Linux is to succeed in Linus's quest for World Domination(tm), then QNX must be the first up against the wall.
2% CPU Usage while playing an MP3... Man, as soon as they Port my Adobe products....
Why can't the transit system be this efficient?
I am become Troll, destroyer of threads
> If Linux is to succeed in Linus's quest for World Domination(tm), then QNX must be the first up against the wall.
Well, hot damn, let's get going! I've got some pipes and chains. Let's meet at midnight and go make some trouble for these "QNX" sucks.
First blood gets a free "RTLinux rules!" T-shirt!
...but seriously, does QNX distribute source code? If not then I'm sure not going to want to work with it.
--Lenny
gcc, and Voyager - an HTML 3.2 compliant browser are included in the base. You can download, browse and install additional software including a Mozilla based browser and AbiWord using the package installer. I think qnxstart.com has GIMP and XPDF ported
Real Time Linux is a real-time kernel that runs a standard Linux kernel as a pseudo-userland thread. It is essentially a hack to run standard Linux binaries on an otherwise real-time system.
Whenever an interrupt is issued, the RTLinux handler is run, and if necessary the RTLinux scheduler. The standard Linux kernel scheduler only runs during idle time. And RTLinux can pre-empt the standard Linux kernel, because Linux is run essentially as a process of the RTLinux kernel.
So my point is that the latency of the Linux kernel as we know it has no real bearing on the performance of RTLinux. RTLinux is it's own kernel, designed from the ground up for real time. To my knowledge, it shares no code with Linux. Linux is run "on top" of RTLinux, and thus stays out of the way of the ultra-important real-time scheduler.
Check out their site for more info...
--Lenny
ftp://128.253.243.142/qnx/qnxrtp.tar.F (21.3MB)
ftp://128.253.243.142/qnx/qnxrtp.iso ; (91.4MB)
SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers
SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers
plan9 has been doing that for 10 years
/drskwid/audio
.oO0Oo.
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9
all resources are distributed through a namespace
want to play audio on my machine :
cat pcmdata.dat |
is that cool enough?
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Whilst I've not used this latest version of QNX, a couple of years ago I designed the control system for a wafer polishing tool that used QNX for the control system. We ran it on 3 single board computers, one with a hard drive, the others booting off flash and sharing the hard drive of the first. It was nice because the hardware and resources were transparently available on all three SBCs, computer 1 could easily get to serial ports on computer 2, etc. By dividing the control tasks up into a number of modules and using the QNX send/receive/reply IPC stuff, we were able to move tasks around on the fly and the system didn't know or care where stuff was running. I just wished they had supported gcc at the time. Watcom was ok, but it was a really old implementation of c++....
jim
I've wrestled with reality for 35 years and I'm happy to say, I finally won out - Elwood P. Dowd
Computer hangs on "Generating helpviewer search database"... dang. I wanted this to work. Does anybody know what's up with that?
i used their little command-line utility to detect network cards. it came back as not detecting any. i'm not completely dumb. i RTFM.
Would you like to point out how? If you look at my postings on the BeDev list and BeNews, you'll realize that I critisize BeOS too when the time is appropriate. I never said to anybody that YOU SHOULD USE BeOS. I merely point out when somone is spreading FUD about it, or when somone gives Linux undeserved credit.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
yes, kind of
/device/status
/dev/ctrl
/device/status
.oO0Oo.
everything is controlled like this
the contents of a window can be read and written through file access
everything really is a file
and because of that consistent methodology you can do complicated things easily
control your devices with shell scripts / executables / python etc. etc. there's no new interface stuff to bother with.
add something new and EVERYONE already knows how to interface with it :
$ cat
Device is "on"
$ echo "off" >
$ cat
Device is "off"
but interestingly if i bind the device in to my namespace I can control it too even though it's not on my pc so I can easily write data to your serial port or read the position of your mouse
if you liked unix you'll love plan9
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I was recently visiting Begnell Dam (not Bengal) in lake of the ozarks, and received a personal tour. They told me that they use QNX to monitor the generators, mainly because it's "more robust than windows"...hmmm...
öööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööö
How Jaded Are You?
thats three actually
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
Who keeps marking this simp up? Where his posts are comprehensible they're flamebait?
I smell a rat.
I would need that too.
Yet they tend to over-generalize...
;^)
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
As such you acknowledge that you are not authorized to use any the QNX Realtime Platform: (i) in a live operating environment, (ii) with data that has not been sufficiently backed up, or (iii) for benchmark or performance testing. You should expect the QNX Realtime Platform to be somewhat unreliable. It is your responsibility to take adequate precautions to prevent damage to your resources in the event the QNX Realtime Platform fails. We intend that all components of the QNX Realtime Platform will be offered as commercial versions; however, we cannot guarantee if or when this will happen.
I thought this was a product. That sounds like a beta or worse. QNX used to be really good about reliability, and I thought that would continue. Apparently not.
I never said monolithic is bad. I said that since QNX is not monolithic, ALSA doesn't have to be part of the kernel to work, and thus the kernel need not be Open Source.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
From the QNX developer FAQ:
"[I]f one appliance in a home network has an Internet connection, or flash memory, or an MP3 music archive - whatever - all other appliances can access that resource automatically. Not only is this cool, but it can dramatically lower the cost of entry for home networks"
Isn't being cool reason enough to try it out? This is almost enough to get a second box running in my shoebox apartment so that I can set up a lan and try this out. It's not so much that it can share the resources, but that there's no work involved.
Mr. Spey
Cover your butt. Bernard is watching.
Cover your butt. Bernard is watching.
I've had nothing but frustration with the fox.mit.edu link. I've done two separate downloads at separate times over my 56k (one overnight and one while at work) and in both instances I'm only a few K off from getting the full iso. When I burn what I have, I can't read the disc. The most I've gotten from the download is 95,907,556 bytes (out of a total 95,911,936). Am I doing something wrong (just clicking on the link)? Has anyone else had this problem with the same link?
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Anyone know if they still even offer their "trial" version - I can't seem to find it on the site? It would boot off a floppy, reside in flash memory and provide a web brower a few games, and some really great networking capapbilities. Yes, all on a 1.44M floppy.
--
I just did an FTP append of my broken download by hooking up to SlashMirror. All is well...hosah!
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!