Tell that to the new users of linux that came from windows. And I am an electrical engineer and software developer.
And how would you know where the docs are when you installed something from an RPM. I am not saying that I can't find them, I am just saying that they just don't pop up on the screen.
Moreover, nobody wants to read the docs if they just want to try out the product. Of course I am spending much more time on my mysql installation.
One mistake eazel was making was to integrate the browser to the file manager. Just use mozilla or maybe galeon instead of embedding it. Clicking on a url in general should start an internet browser, period. Even that is the case on windows.
Re:Good riddance to yet another bad business model
on
Eazel Come, Eazel Go?
·
· Score: 1
GTK is LGPL. You can use it in commercial products as far as I know. And moreover even your software is not commercial, if you use QT, you need to release it under GPL. That just limits the freedom. How about if I want to release my software under some other licence.
And my argument was that not everybody can pay 2k on the licence if they want to create a closed source freeware or a shareware maybe.
If you want these developers to go to wondows instead of linux, then support QT.
Re:Good riddance to yet another bad business model
on
Eazel Come, Eazel Go?
·
· Score: 1
Yes I know and it is very expensive. I specifically mentioned about poor (moneywise) developpers and students trying to develop commercial products. That is why I said that you need VC money to develop a QT based commercial product.
Why is perl so successful in the commercial area. You can develop commercial software in perl easily without paying anything to anybody.
>no complete Office Suite, and have
>a FILE MANAGER as their flagship product.
Can we please separate the idea of an office suite and desktop GUI. Yes you need a good office suite for linux to successd on the desktop area but gnome doesn't need to have its own office suite to succeed. People can use any OSS office suite, such as star office or Koffice.
An yes, FILE MANAGER should be a flagship product.
Of course you also need a better installation skim for software installations and their integration to the gnome menus. Right now I install something like staroffice and then I am lost and I spend next hour to find out how to start up star office. I think by coincidence I discovered that typing soffice on the command line starts up Star office. I found it after trying every combination of the words "star", "office" and "sun".
Re:Good riddance to yet another bad business model
on
Eazel Come, Eazel Go?
·
· Score: 2
That is stupid. Because investors, in general, have a temporary problem of not investing these days, doesn't give you the right to spread FUD around.
Konqueror is a windows clone and it is not the best file manager. I respect the developers of konqueror but I like the look of Nautilus more. I want it to succeed. That is my opinion. It is missing several major things but those will be fixed when gnome gets more mature and standardized.
[quote]
>>>>>
[/quote]
This is so much BS. QT is not the best way to go for some people. QT is GPL on Linux doesn't make it the preferable platform. Poor people want to develop commercial products and sell them. They can't do it with QT, and not everybody is willing to spend their liife writing GPL programs.
You complain about eazel getting VC money. Making QT monopoly will force every linux software company need VC money. A student can write windows programs and sell them and make money, but not linux programs. GTK is important for linux desktop. QT is also good for big software companies or GPL software development.
Re:What other MS-compatable alternatives are there
on
Mozilla 0.9 Out
·
· Score: 2
I am a new user of Linux, at least as a desktop/workstation (pentiun II 350 + 384MB RAM). I have mandrake 8.0, so I have pretty much the bleeding edge browsers of linux installed. Konqueror is good but not as good as IE, and I have been getting annoyed with the display and the fonts, etc. I is definitely close to being good enough but not yet. Mozilla 0.81 (also galleon, nautilus, etc) is also installed and unfortunately it is too slow and also buggy, at least people didn't test their webpages on mozilla. It just doesn't feel right for day to day frequent usage. After fighting for a while what to use, I remembered opera. I have been using opera for a long while on windows and I use it 50% of the time and I use IE for the other 50%. Opera has been missing some javascript functionality but 99% of the time it is fine. It has a great gui which is very customizable.
I installed the linux version and I love it. It is consistant with the windows version and it is very fast to start on linux. After starting opera, all of us know how fast it is to render pages.
Re:Best thing to ever happen to the Python communi
on
Apocalypse 2
·
· Score: 1
>It's actually easier to write a sonnet than to write free verse.
OK, I assume the language in this case is English. English doesn't prevent you from writing a sonnet, does it.
So, feel free to write a sonnet in Perl too. I suggest to go take a look at Larry's old talks on the issue...
Re:reasons to use python instead of perl
on
Apocalypse 2
·
· Score: 1
>As for reading what you wrote, sorry, but I can
>still read every perl script I ever wrote. If
>you can't, you're doing it wrong.
Yes, that is altavista's approach. Fit all the web inside one alpha box. Well as you can see the web is growing exponentially, but altavista doesn't. That is why altavista's index size is still 100-200 million web pages for the last several years.
I have listened to a Google senior engineer for about 10 months ago. They are really good at load balancing and should become a good example for other companies. Interesting points I remember:
- Number of websites are increasing exponentially. So your number of computers or required CPU cycles are increasing exponentially. On the other hand prices per CPU Mhz also decreases exponentially (Moore's law ???). That is the key solution for the scalabbility. At least the problem is not exponential.
- As mentioned in this article, they have been running Celeron 500+256MB RAM+ 2x 40GB harddisks back then. When a computer fails it is easier to replace them because of the cheap hardware.
- Buy systems as much parts integrated to the main board as possible (NIC card, etc.) It is supposedly more reliable.
- They are not running linux because it is cheaper. I have seen headlines about this including Slashdot, but it is not true. They are not denying that they saved a lot of money because of that, but hen they started Google that wasn't the issue. He mentioned that they could have had got a good deal from Sun for Solaris. The reason was that the openness of the source code and other reasons mentioned in the article. By the way he mentioned that TCP stack issues were also considered when the decision have been made. it looks like they are confident that they can fix problems at home if any exist.
Google wants to design all software they run at Google. They don't want to use third party software because it introduces instability and it is difficult to fix bugs in that case.
- They are not running Apache. using linux doesn't mean running apache. They designed their web server, which is simplest possible and therefore fastest. They don't need a complicated web server. All the computation is done in the background on 8000 linux servers. Web server needs only to send the query to the query server and display the results.
- Googles job was easier than people might think. Their database is not dynamic. It only gets updated once a month. Updating means replacing the old files with the new ones, which is an offline process. Comparing this with an ecommerce site displaying real time statistics, you can see that google has an advantage and makes things easier for them.
- Lets say Spidering and crawling is done on one datacenter. You need to copy these terabytes of data over to other datacenters and then replicate it to multiple server farms in each datacenter. You have to do this fast and without any errors. You don't want to use OS file system functions.
- They rent bandwidth of multi gigabits for offline hours when there is not much traffic. of course for a very very cheap price. They use this bandwidth to copy data files from west coast to east coast. We are talking about many terabytes.
I think you need to decide on the definition of the slavery first. From the dictionary:
Slave: One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.
>The pre Napolianic rulers of Egypt were
>homosexuals who propagated themselves by
>abducting boys from the Rusian steps
I don't know if this is true or not, but this is not slavery by itself. Did these boys become slaves when they grew up?
>Most of us are familiar with cartoon harems and
>their eunich gaurds.
OK. this means that the Sultan of the Empire can have slaves. As a matter of fact in Ottoman empire, you can consider all the whole population as the slaves of the Sultan since he can dispose anybody if he wants. But to talk about slavery of muslims, you should talk about all the muslim population having the right to slave the non-muslims. Don't confuse the Ottoman government system with the religion.
>Think about it a while. The
>behavior of Turks as they invaded East Europe >rivals anthing in the Spanish Inquisition.
And...??? Explain the slavery of the Turks as they invaded East Europe. I don't see any truth on this if I look at the history.
The bottom line is that you need to have a differentiating technology in a big enough market. Right now all the VC's are very careful about anyinvestment and nobody wants to take a risk of the uncertainties of tomorrow; but this doesn't mean that everybody is going down. It just means that you can't startup a dotcom named pets-to-go.com and expect to become a billionaire anymore.
For the curious, in perl6 you will be able to write perl in python style, or in many other styles. No more stuck with the good old perl brackets? I will continue to write my programs in perl style which is the best.
I am really surprised that nobody responded to this message yet.
All the things you are mentioning here are altready implemented (and has more advanced versions: compare SWIG and XS) in perl. The only exception is JPython. There is JPL which achieve a similar objective, but it is not an implementation of perl in pure Java, but I think that is fine. There are a thousand extra modules in perl which make up for it.
Inline module in perl is really nice. You can embed C, C++ and python code inside your perl code. It automatically compiles inline C code and if you didn't modify the C part, it doesn't recompile it. So you have interpreted C pretty much.
>is that they don't sacrifice a portion of the
>(already tiny) screen exclusively for graffiti.
more screen space means that it will require more baterry power. Considering that you will use the lower part for text input most of the time, it would have been a waste of battery life.
Nowadays things might be changing and i guess both of them has their places.
That's why you shouldn't use html email. Use a decent email client which lets you only display plain text.
By the way, did you notice that hotmail (and users) began sending "HTML ONLY" emails. No plain text part. It is another strategy from Microsoft.
I see that eople are confused what the term java means. This is probably Sun's mistake as Jamie Zawinski explains here:
http://www.jwz.org/doc/java.html
Taken from this url (which is written in 97 I think):
The fact is that there are four completely different things that go by the name "Java":
- A language;
- An enormous class library;
- A virtual machine;
- A security model.
-- Java-the-language is, overall, a very good thing, and works well.
-- Java-the-class-library is mostly passable.
-- Java-the-virtual-machine is an interesting research project, a nice proof of concept, and is basically usable for a certain class of problems (those problems where speed isn't all that important: basically, those tasks where you could get away with using Perl instead of C.)
-- Java-the-security-model is another interesting research project, but it only barely works right now. In a few years, maybe they'll have it figured out or replaced.
After reading this page, I am convinced that it is a good thing for Java and for Linux to have native toolkit.
Perl is easy to use and learn. Not bad at all. But that is not the point of perl and nither it is a good thing.
You begin feeling the power of perl when you become good in perl. Perl makes life easier for you to write complicated programs. In C++, Java: well it isn't very hard to write a "Hello world" program. But ones you need to be involved deeper programming concepts, it is easier to understand them in perl than in other languages. And ones you get to conccept (mainly meaning that ones you understand why that concept exists in the first place), it is easy to learn the implementation of it in JAva or C++.
...Mason will become a part of perl distribution.
No more hype about php and others.
Make no mistake, Mason is not like ASP pr PHP, it is more logical for production.
You don't get it, do you? All these concepts:
>We'll have the app hold a bunch of shared files,
> and then we can fiddle with it so it
> allows multiple instances of one program, blah blah...
exist because the OS is designed that way and people wrote their applications based on the requirements and design of the OS.
You have two button mouse one windows, three button mouse on *nix, and one mouse button on MacOS, and yet nobody complains: That's because those operating systems are designed that way.
Don't assume that US = World. It might not be affordable in US to do R&D, because you need to pay $100,000/per year/per person, and usually those are not the best programmers. Then one brilliant guy from Sweden can kick ass for free but just to show off or prove himself.
Or programmers from check republic might get paid $10,000/per year.
And there are companies such as Zend, which actually have potential for exploiting open source and make money.
Slashdot Mirror
Tell that to the new users of linux that came from windows. And I am an electrical engineer and software developer.
And how would you know where the docs are when you installed something from an RPM. I am not saying that I can't find them, I am just saying that they just don't pop up on the screen.
Moreover, nobody wants to read the docs if they just want to try out the product. Of course I am spending much more time on my mysql installation.
One mistake eazel was making was to integrate the browser to the file manager. Just use mozilla or maybe galeon instead of embedding it. Clicking on a url in general should start an internet browser, period. Even that is the case on windows.
GTK is LGPL. You can use it in commercial products as far as I know. And moreover even your software is not commercial, if you use QT, you need to release it under GPL. That just limits the freedom. How about if I want to release my software under some other licence.
And my argument was that not everybody can pay 2k on the licence if they want to create a closed source freeware or a shareware maybe.
If you want these developers to go to wondows instead of linux, then support QT.
Yes I know and it is very expensive. I specifically mentioned about poor (moneywise) developpers and students trying to develop commercial products. That is why I said that you need VC money to develop a QT based commercial product.
Why is perl so successful in the commercial area. You can develop commercial software in perl easily without paying anything to anybody.
>no complete Office Suite, and have
>a FILE MANAGER as their flagship product.
Can we please separate the idea of an office suite and desktop GUI. Yes you need a good office suite for linux to successd on the desktop area but gnome doesn't need to have its own office suite to succeed. People can use any OSS office suite, such as star office or Koffice.
An yes, FILE MANAGER should be a flagship product.
Of course you also need a better installation skim for software installations and their integration to the gnome menus. Right now I install something like staroffice and then I am lost and I spend next hour to find out how to start up star office. I think by coincidence I discovered that typing soffice on the command line starts up Star office. I found it after trying every combination of the words "star", "office" and "sun".
That is stupid. Because investors, in general, have a temporary problem of not investing these days, doesn't give you the right to spread FUD around.
Konqueror is a windows clone and it is not the best file manager. I respect the developers of konqueror but I like the look of Nautilus more. I want it to succeed. That is my opinion. It is missing several major things but those will be fixed when gnome gets more mature and standardized.
[quote]
>>>>>
[/quote]
This is so much BS. QT is not the best way to go for some people. QT is GPL on Linux doesn't make it the preferable platform. Poor people want to develop commercial products and sell them. They can't do it with QT, and not everybody is willing to spend their liife writing GPL programs.
You complain about eazel getting VC money. Making QT monopoly will force every linux software company need VC money. A student can write windows programs and sell them and make money, but not linux programs. GTK is important for linux desktop. QT is also good for big software companies or GPL software development.
I am a new user of Linux, at least as a desktop/workstation (pentiun II 350 + 384MB RAM). I have mandrake 8.0, so I have pretty much the bleeding edge browsers of linux installed. Konqueror is good but not as good as IE, and I have been getting annoyed with the display and the fonts, etc. I is definitely close to being good enough but not yet. Mozilla 0.81 (also galleon, nautilus, etc) is also installed and unfortunately it is too slow and also buggy, at least people didn't test their webpages on mozilla. It just doesn't feel right for day to day frequent usage. After fighting for a while what to use, I remembered opera. I have been using opera for a long while on windows and I use it 50% of the time and I use IE for the other 50%. Opera has been missing some javascript functionality but 99% of the time it is fine. It has a great gui which is very customizable.
I installed the linux version and I love it. It is consistant with the windows version and it is very fast to start on linux. After starting opera, all of us know how fast it is to render pages.
>It's actually easier to write a sonnet than to write free verse.
OK, I assume the language in this case is English. English doesn't prevent you from writing a sonnet, does it.
So, feel free to write a sonnet in Perl too. I suggest to go take a look at Larry's old talks on the issue...
>As for reading what you wrote, sorry, but I can
>still read every perl script I ever wrote. If
>you can't, you're doing it wrong.
Same here!
Good point.
I think both websites and CPU power doubles in a close time frame.
Yes, that is altavista's approach. Fit all the web inside one alpha box. Well as you can see the web is growing exponentially, but altavista doesn't. That is why altavista's index size is still 100-200 million web pages for the last several years.
I have listened to a Google senior engineer for about 10 months ago. They are really good at load balancing and should become a good example for other companies. Interesting points I remember:
- Number of websites are increasing exponentially. So your number of computers or required CPU cycles are increasing exponentially. On the other hand prices per CPU Mhz also decreases exponentially (Moore's law ???). That is the key solution for the scalabbility. At least the problem is not exponential.
- As mentioned in this article, they have been running Celeron 500+256MB RAM+ 2x 40GB harddisks back then. When a computer fails it is easier to replace them because of the cheap hardware.
- Buy systems as much parts integrated to the main board as possible (NIC card, etc.) It is supposedly more reliable.
- They are not running linux because it is cheaper. I have seen headlines about this including Slashdot, but it is not true. They are not denying that they saved a lot of money because of that, but hen they started Google that wasn't the issue. He mentioned that they could have had got a good deal from Sun for Solaris. The reason was that the openness of the source code and other reasons mentioned in the article. By the way he mentioned that TCP stack issues were also considered when the decision have been made. it looks like they are confident that they can fix problems at home if any exist.
Google wants to design all software they run at Google. They don't want to use third party software because it introduces instability and it is difficult to fix bugs in that case.
- They are not running Apache. using linux doesn't mean running apache. They designed their web server, which is simplest possible and therefore fastest. They don't need a complicated web server. All the computation is done in the background on 8000 linux servers. Web server needs only to send the query to the query server and display the results.
- Googles job was easier than people might think. Their database is not dynamic. It only gets updated once a month. Updating means replacing the old files with the new ones, which is an offline process. Comparing this with an ecommerce site displaying real time statistics, you can see that google has an advantage and makes things easier for them.
- Lets say Spidering and crawling is done on one datacenter. You need to copy these terabytes of data over to other datacenters and then replicate it to multiple server farms in each datacenter. You have to do this fast and without any errors. You don't want to use OS file system functions.
- They rent bandwidth of multi gigabits for offline hours when there is not much traffic. of course for a very very cheap price. They use this bandwidth to copy data files from west coast to east coast. We are talking about many terabytes.
I think you need to decide on the definition of the slavery first. From the dictionary:
Slave: One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.
>The pre Napolianic rulers of Egypt were
>homosexuals who propagated themselves by
>abducting boys from the Rusian steps
I don't know if this is true or not, but this is not slavery by itself. Did these boys become slaves when they grew up?
>Most of us are familiar with cartoon harems and
>their eunich gaurds.
OK. this means that the Sultan of the Empire can have slaves. As a matter of fact in Ottoman empire, you can consider all the whole population as the slaves of the Sultan since he can dispose anybody if he wants. But to talk about slavery of muslims, you should talk about all the muslim population having the right to slave the non-muslims. Don't confuse the Ottoman government system with the religion.
>Think about it a while. The
>behavior of Turks as they invaded East Europe >rivals anthing in the Spanish Inquisition.
And...??? Explain the slavery of the Turks as they invaded East Europe. I don't see any truth on this if I look at the history.
Call your potential customers and arrange a meeting. Don't wait them to come to you.
The bottom line is that you need to have a differentiating technology in a big enough market. Right now all the VC's are very careful about anyinvestment and nobody wants to take a risk of the uncertainties of tomorrow; but this doesn't mean that everybody is going down. It just means that you can't startup a dotcom named pets-to-go.com and expect to become a billionaire anymore.
For the curious, in perl6 you will be able to write perl in python style, or in many other styles. No more stuck with the good old perl brackets? I will continue to write my programs in perl style which is the best.
I am really surprised that nobody responded to this message yet.
All the things you are mentioning here are altready implemented (and has more advanced versions: compare SWIG and XS) in perl. The only exception is JPython. There is JPL which achieve a similar objective, but it is not an implementation of perl in pure Java, but I think that is fine. There are a thousand extra modules in perl which make up for it.
Inline module in perl is really nice. You can embed C, C++ and python code inside your perl code. It automatically compiles inline C code and if you didn't modify the C part, it doesn't recompile it. So you have interpreted C pretty much.
>is that they don't sacrifice a portion of the
>(already tiny) screen exclusively for graffiti.
more screen space means that it will require more baterry power. Considering that you will use the lower part for text input most of the time, it would have been a waste of battery life.
Nowadays things might be changing and i guess both of them has their places.
That's why you shouldn't use html email. Use a decent email client which lets you only display plain text.
By the way, did you notice that hotmail (and users) began sending "HTML ONLY" emails. No plain text part. It is another strategy from Microsoft.
I see that eople are confused what the term java means. This is probably Sun's mistake as Jamie Zawinski explains here:
http://www.jwz.org/doc/java.html
Taken from this url (which is written in 97 I think):
The fact is that there are four completely different things that go by the name "Java":
- A language;
- An enormous class library;
- A virtual machine;
- A security model.
-- Java-the-language is, overall, a very good thing, and works well.
-- Java-the-class-library is mostly passable.
-- Java-the-virtual-machine is an interesting research project, a nice proof of concept, and is basically usable for a certain class of problems (those problems where speed isn't all that important: basically, those tasks where you could get away with using Perl instead of C.)
-- Java-the-security-model is another interesting research project, but it only barely works right now. In a few years, maybe they'll have it figured out or replaced.
After reading this page, I am convinced that it is a good thing for Java and for Linux to have native toolkit.
Ahh. And they are cheap. And people have hundreds of them at home sitting. Not to mention that every computer user on the planet has a floppy drive.
Perl is easy to use and learn. Not bad at all. But that is not the point of perl and nither it is a good thing.
You begin feeling the power of perl when you become good in perl. Perl makes life easier for you to write complicated programs. In C++, Java: well it isn't very hard to write a "Hello world" program. But ones you need to be involved deeper programming concepts, it is easier to understand them in perl than in other languages. And ones you get to conccept (mainly meaning that ones you understand why that concept exists in the first place), it is easy to learn the implementation of it in JAva or C++.
...Mason will become a part of perl distribution.
No more hype about php and others.
Make no mistake, Mason is not like ASP pr PHP, it is more logical for production.
You don't get it, do you? All these concepts:
>We'll have the app hold a bunch of shared files,
> and then we can fiddle with it so it
> allows multiple instances of one program, blah blah...
exist because the OS is designed that way and people wrote their applications based on the requirements and design of the OS.
You have two button mouse one windows, three button mouse on *nix, and one mouse button on MacOS, and yet nobody complains: That's because those operating systems are designed that way.
Don't assume that US = World. It might not be affordable in US to do R&D, because you need to pay $100,000/per year/per person, and usually those are not the best programmers. Then one brilliant guy from Sweden can kick ass for free but just to show off or prove himself.
Or programmers from check republic might get paid $10,000/per year.
And there are companies such as Zend, which actually have potential for exploiting open source and make money.