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New Sony Clie: PalmOS Is Back in Style
"According to the sonypdadev email sent out just before midnight in Tokyo, Sony will start selling a new model of their PalmOS-eqipped Clie, the 160 gram PEG-N700C on April 7. Not only is it chock full of hot tech, the handheld also could redefine the mobility of music. The page and Japanese PDF explains how this promiscuous unit offers music downloading side-by-side with copyright managed content on removable sticks and CD track ripping through your laptop.. and it connects to a software VCR they've had for a while called GigaPocket, which could finally put the Vaio's memory stick port to some good use!
The new Clie features a 33MHz DragonballVZ cpu, PalmOS 3.5, USB cradle, infrared, TFT, and special features aimed at networked media.. it can play back full consumer range (20Hz-20KHz) audio, takes normal and copyright protected memory sticks, has ATRAC-3 compatibility, 132Kbps audio recording, sports a new extra high resolution 320x320 dot display and font, and comes with stereo headphones, and shuttle remote, 11 hour stamina battery, and a digital phone connector for Internet connectivity.
OpenMG Jukebox 2.0 for CLIE lets you "Record your CD on a MagicGate Memory Stick.. and play it on your Clie" (with jogdial support). The largest stick (128MB, on sale the same day) supposedly can hold up to 240 minutes of audio.. or up to 160 minutes of MPEG, AVI, Quicktime 3/4 video. I thought the Zaurus was sweet (and it is) but this has got to be the ultimate A/V package for now.
Incidentally, some other Sony products that use the memory stick are a new mobile phone (Java version coming soon), the Cyber-shot digital camera, and the network walkman. You can buy 2 songs online with an 800 yen Network Music Pass web money card."
Doesn't this device somewhat defeat the purpose of PalmOS, which was simplicity, and just enough functionality to do scheduling and other PIM-type tasks?
Yes and no; mostly no.
The pilot, III, &c, came with a small amount of memory, and therefore limited functionality. I've got a Vx, and while I still use it for more or less the same stuff, it's handy having a camera, extra IR, etc.
If this new machine can have up to 16Mb without affecting performance of all the simple apps that traditionalists know and love, so much the better. In fact, it would be a waste not to. If you want a simple PDA, buy an Palm III.
Of course, if we see emacs coming out for the clie, then it is time to worry.
Why do you want multitasking on a device with a 320x320 screen and a 33mhz processor? It's not like you are going to be able to run stuff in the background without seriously impacting the foreground apps anyway. Besides, the palm is really only barely fast enough for handwriting recognition as it is; I usually overclock mine, which improves its accuracy about 50% when I write fast. Plus it's not like you do a lot of stuff on the Palm that really NEEDs to be run in the background. How many times have you encoded MP3s or running web servers on your Palm? Finally, everything is already in memory on the Palm, so switching between apps is already fast.
If you only wanted multitasking so you could pull up a calculator while writing a note or something, you might want to look into Palm "desk accessories" which are basically identical to the "desk accessories" on Finder 7.
I think the Palm's biggest strength is it's simplicity.
Down that path lies madness. On the other hand, the road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
I read the internet for the articles.
Maybe it's because, um, it's crappy, proprietary, and copy-controlled? And if so, won't the same thing happen to Clie?!
sulli
RTFJ.
The other possible reason is price. Square LCD's many times are off the shelf parts. Any WinCE device you look at will have a custom LCD that is much more expensive.
Wow, its like you read my mind. I bought the Clie a while back. The memory stick is useful for backups, but I might as well just use hotsync for that. It does though have a nicer screen than the Palms and Handspring (smaller, thus sharper image).
moderate this down
No sig.
Ever gotten sick of waiting for a web page to load on your PC and flipped over to another app to occupy yourself during the wait? Can't do that on a Palm, and you really wish that wasn't so, especially when you're using a slow-as-death CDPD modem. But that only begins to scratch the surface.
Of course, a lot of your feelings do stem from the fact that it's somewhat underpowered; this was OK with me back in the days of AAA batteries, but now that I have to plug the darn thing in every couple nights to charge its batteries, they might as well give me a decently powerful processor.
I'd had a hard time coming up with multi-tasking examples last week...til I started paying attention to them. An ideal example (and one the Clie _can't_ do) was: -Activesyncing the ipaq via IR on a Nokia 8290 -Perusing webpages using Avantgo -Taking seminar notes in Word on a Targus keyboard when something interesting came up -then switching back to the Active sync before it got to AvantGo as I didn't want to spend 40 minutes downloading the pages at 9600 baud. I dunno about OS 4.0 for the Palm, but Hotsyncing is a 100% use application for all Palm OS devices.
Those who typically can't stomache me are those who are insecure about their own lives. If you look at me, look at what I have, and how I act and hate me for it - because this is what I have made for myself then fuck off. I've worked damned hard to get where I am at, I deserve to enjoy it and if you don't like it then kiss my ass. Besides, my true friends love me -- and that's what I care about.
Anonymous for obvious reasons
Yes, it's called cowardice.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Why do you want multitasking on a device with a 320x320 screen and a 33mhz processor? (Score:2 Insightful)
Insightful my ass. Try blind.
Multitasking is one of the great ways to make computational devices actually useful. What's the point of being able to execute hundreds of thousands of instructions/second if you have to serialize operation and do things at human speeds.
Sometime back in the late 70's or early 80's I wrote a letter to the editor of Infoworld complaining that the OS designers of PC's were ignoring the lessons learned by mainframe and mini designers, lessons like security and multitasking. The printed the letter and topped with a comment saying "Why on earth would we need multitasking on a personal computer?"
La plus sa change, la plus sa meme chose.
You can already get "widescreen" MPEG video on the iPAQ - there are several players including Pocket TV (you can view in landscape mode and turn the device sideways) and rumors of work on a divx port to PocketPC. I love the form factor of my Palm Vx, but there is certainly geek lust for the ability to watch a decoded DVD on my PDA on the commute home. Or even better, decode the MPEG on my Tivo and catch up on those Battlebots episodes on the train.
4.
And I trust all of them with my life, and if they shit on my arrogance behind my back they do it too my face too.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Yeah good point. I didn't mean to say that Sony shouldn't have had a way to distinguish the jog dial from the page up/down. Modifying the default handler would have been appropriate in this instance.
I don't know about you, but I have a devil of a time fitting my laptop in my jacket pocket.. Good thing I've got an iPaq with StowAway keyboard -- I barely know i've got it on me until I want to work on that large word document and listen to some music.. The fact is that the CE devices are completely different - The palm makes a better address book, the batteries last forever and a used Pilot is cheap enough that if you lose it or break it, its no big deal - but I'm digging this feature overload right now, I've been interested in writting for fun for a while now, and I finally can pull out a full size keyboard and work with a powerful word processor at a cafe anywhere. I dig it, YMMV.
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Vices - what I lack in originality, I make up for in volume.
Remember, this is Sony we're talking about. When it comes to consumer electronics they have God-like powers beyond the comprehension of mortal men. Expect the PlayStation 4 to solve NP-complete problems in polynomial time.
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
You could extrapolate from this and maybe find some practical, real-world use.
ATRAC is the compression used for MD (MiniDisc). You can read more here at www.minidisc.org.
---- "It is never too late to give up our prejudices." --Henry David Thoreau(1817-1862)
"Waaahhhh! My PDA does too much stuff!"
Seriously, give me a break. If they can pack all of this into the same size box without taking a major hit in either performance or price, I'm all for it. Why would you not want your PDA, which happens to be the same size as a MP3 player, to play MP3s?
What I really want is a PDA the size of the new Visor Edge with color, Bluetooth support, wireless video-conferencing, and streaming media from the web. Is that too much to ask? This thing from Sony is a step in the right direction.
If all you want to do is fiddle around with datebook and IR your business card back and forth, you should buy an M100. But please, don't complain about the cool gadgets.
See www.palminfocenter.com for the reasons why...
It may well defeat the intent and purpose of the PalmVx, Visor Platinum, etc, or the newer M105, but not the purpose of Palm per se.
The PalmOS today is supposed to be more powerful and flexible to keep up with advancing technology just like the new Sony. If this were unleased 2 years ago, it would have been stupid, but in today's tech, it would seem to make sense.
What I wonder is why the thing doesn't have a built in 320x320 camera!
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
It used to be all applications would evolve into something that would send email. Now it seems that all hardware is evolving into something that will play MP3's. Personally I have nothing against this. I'd probably buy an MP3 module for my Handspring if I didn't already own a Rio. But since I hardly use the Rio anymore I'd probably just be wasting my money.
'Same speed C but faster'
Being a PalmOS developer, I'll address some of this.
Sony chose to make the events that the jog dial triggers be completely proprietary instead of mapping them to something like the pageup/down arrows. Therefore, if you want to support them, you have to listen for those events specifically. It's not hard, but it requires you go to Sony's poorly designed developer support site, and wait 5-7 days to get a header file with the events in them, then go back and implement support in every phase of your app. I've done it, and it's cool, but really since the Clie market penetration is small, most people probably won't bother.
As to the memory stick. Yeah, this is pretty worthless right now, but Palm made a promise that the expansion manager technology they're using in OS/4.0 will support the Clie's memory stick as well as Palm's new SD/MMC standard. Therefore, support for memory sticks might get better, assuming you can flash the Sony devices with OS/4.0 when it comes out (which I doubt since it looks like OS/4.0 won't fit in 2mb).
Damn, and I was just starting to have fun - oh well, I'll see ya soon - if at any point, the next party should be good right?
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Moderators, please mod the parent post offtopic!
r. ghaffari
moderators, please mark the parent post offtopic!
thank you.
r. ghaffari
Thank you for your commentary though, it has changed my perspective.
Besides, didn't you get it - they are fairly acquanted with me...
Feel free to mod me down, in fact slashdot should have a "Post At 0 because this is offtopic" option.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Looks cool...
Aren't you a bit old for #teenchat?
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Read my above post for price and such.....or get a Palm m105, both have 8 megs and will run QED, or a host of text editing tools. QED is my personal favorite, check out www.palmgear.com for that. The files are easy to convert and transfer from the Palm to the computer, can be as big as the palm will accomodate, and the batteries last forever :D
is this better you shitfaced bitch?
r. ghaffari
When you are stupid, do you ever stop and go "wow, I am really fucking dumb" or does it not even phase you?
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
The thing is...it doesn't natively play mp3's..it has software that will convert your mp3's into atrac...once your mp3 is converted to atrac...you can't convert it back. Thier software also attempts to delete the source mp3 once conversion is complete. One way conversion only! (man was I pissed when my hip new Sony mp3 stick walkman pulled that on me). The compression is great...no difference in sound then mp3, however I now have a duplicate mp3 collection...6 gigs of music in mp3 to play in WinAmp or burn to cd or trade or whatever...and 6 gigs of the same exact songs in atrac format to shuttle in and out of the sony. Quite a hassle if you ask me. Damn best buy for not taking back the sony! stupid return desk people (/me continues muttering)
YOU should be the one talking about hostility. I'm going to smack you for being such a potty mouth, since your mom is obviously too busy fucking the neighbors.
r. ghaffari
http://www.storage.ibm.com/hardsoft/diskdrdl/micro /overvw.htm
They used to market 170mb, but even IBM's webpage only mentions 340, 512, and 1gb.
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
I'll show you hostility then.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Being six foot two and 210 pounds, I don't think I'm worried about any pasty long-haired geek like you showing me hostility.
r. ghaffari
What is needed is a cheap, durable, IP free storage medium upon which a CE firm can build a player around (using something like Ogg as the codec).
If you don't have anything nice to say, say it often.
- Ed the Sock
newton. any model. 130 or 2x00 series is best. emate if you can find one (built-in keyboard)
otherwise, get a keyboard, plug and play. built-in newtonWorks text editor/word processor. sync/backup to PC, Mac, Linux..
real handwriting recognition, bigger screen, voice notes, PCMCIA, speaker.
cheap on ebay.
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
John
John
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
I would have to disagree strongly. For starters, to use the Jog Dial effectively all one needs is a third party application such as PowerJog. This gives me the ability to do everything from the Jog Dial, from going through menus to clicking on buttons, while adding scrolling functionality to essentially all apps. The only things I still need to my stylus for is Graffiti and AvantGo links.
:) than the Palm Vx, which always felt a little too wide for my taste. The side effect of this is that the screen is much sharper, but not so ridiculous as the m100 which makes everything on it look like spider trails.
:)
The memory stick is a godsend for people who use their handhelds to read books (I suggest Smoothy, which uses the Jog Dial to change auto-scrolling speed). I have the entire Lord of the Rings on my CLIE and don't have to pay with reduced space for my apps. Also, there are a handful of programs that are kind of large for keeping in memory but that I still want to pull out every once in a while. For example, I keep LispMe on the Memory Stick so that if I write a Scheme program in MemoPad I can move LispMe on to it just long enough to run it, not taking up any permanent space. I can think of dozens of other uses for the memory stick off the top of my head that do not involve backup, and that's without even waiting for developers to really start working it into their applications.
So the Jog Dial and the MemoryStick remain useful beyond anything the Palm Vx offers. Then we get into opinions:
I like the fact that the CLIE is narrower. It feels nicer in my hand; more like a small notepad (the paper type, people. Remember those? Very high resolution, blue lines accross a white screen-like surface?
As far as accessories go, it is true that the CLIE is currently barren. But so was the Visor when it first came out. Sony is developing tech that allows a MemoryStick to essentially double as a Springboard Module. This in itself is enough to counter arguments about the CLIE not having accessories. And BTW, I personally like the case.
Finally, as to video and sound and such, I would like to point out that there are thousands of programs written for the PalmOS that are downloaded every day that the vast majority of people would look at and say "WTF? Who on earth would want to do that?" Fact of the matter is, the strength of PalmOS is that you can make it do anything without sacrificing the ease of use of the basic functions. If you want to play movies or sound and have the space on your handheld, you can, and without really bloating the interface.
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Don't wrestle with pigs; you'll both get muddy, but the pig likes it.
I am especially impressed with the multimedia capabilities of these sort of products. While I don't quite agree with their 128MB for 160 mins of video numbers, I DO like the *IDEA* of a palm pilot sized device that can play back 320x240(!) full screen (almost, full screen horizontal and 2/3 screen vertical) video. We can probably work something out where we put the device sideways and watch widescreen video on it. However, as DIVX has shown us, we need storage devices in the 300-1G range for high qualitity video clips. Since this device can play back MPEG1 (I'm assuming 1) then experience tells me you'll need 1G for full screen video. Perhaps when they say "160 mins" they mean 160 mins at 120x80!
Oh well, a man can dream though...a man can dream....
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That's not what I meant.
I dunno, I think there must be some market if Windows CE machines are selling, right? The Clie seems to fit that niche, with a 320x320 screen, multimedia capabilities, etc.
It's an entertainment device, like a minidisc player. ATRAC support.
It's a PDA, like a palm pilot!
It's got a high resolution screen and a faster CPU, so it can play Gameboy games!
You can finally do maps decently on it, with double the resolution and high color.
Is it doing too many things at once? I dunno. But it's pretty feature complete against Windows CE machines, and really doesn't compete against other Palm devices yet.
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
Just install the KVM. You'll get Cross-Platform multi-tasking with Java!
Yes it has a memory stick so you can play ATRAC music, but so what? I bet you could buy a Palm Pilot or Handspring and a dedicated MP3 player for the money you'd save. And your music playing wouldn't be hampered by Sony doing it's damndest to lock you into their hobbled music technology.
I just love the way ATRAC is a homonym of 8-Track, the old 1970's music media.
Ok my karma is maxed out. When do I become Enlightened?
Who needed a pixel based display anyway? Why I just about cried tears of joy when my electronic organizer displayed somewhat readable characters on a segmented LCD display.
I still remember when my pappy gave me that 'ol organizer which displayed a full telephone number in the display without scrolling - even with the dashes!!
It even had a BUILT-IN keyboard. Something you need to buy separately for these new fangled devices.
Oh, and the wonderful music it played. Type on the keyboard (TICK), save an entry (BEEP), alarm or appointment reminder (BEEP - BEEP).
It was great for games, too. I could use it to look up my friend Joe's number and call him over for a game of checkers.....
> 1. It was color.
Of course, Palm has a color model now. If you don't care about battery life, I guess.
> 2. It had just as much software as my palm device did.
Fair enough. Of course, MS always claimed that it had *more*...
> 3. I remember reading about a palmOS emulator for WinCE devices.
That won't help you keep your batteries alive or help you with your WinCE OS crashing.
> 4. CE devices get all the cool gizmos. My Vx has IR and a serial port. My friend's CE device has IR, serial, and a compact flash card compartment
HandSpring sells models with Springboards. That's not really a function of the OS, though. The OS is how you interact with it.
> filled with a 90MB IBM microdrive
Good lord, what are you doing with that thing? I still have a Palm III with 2MB. I push that (with e-books), but don't know what I'd do with much more memory.
I use my PDA as a "Personal Digital Assitant", not a handheld desktop computer. I keep notes, shopping lists, schedules, addressbooks, and e-books/web scrapings. It fits in my shirt pocket and I can get to any info very quickly. Batteries last a month.
I like gee-whiz stuff, but not if it detracts from battery life or ease of use.
-- Don't Tase me, bro!
The Handspring Visor can fairly trivially support CF (dunno about CF+)
There are sites that sell or document how to construct a Handspring module that is essentially a passive CF to PCMCIA adaptor with 2 or 3 wires changed to allow a Visor to see a CF card.
And there aren't any 90mb IBM microdrives. They come in 340mb, 5xxsomething and 1gb sizes.
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
PalmStation has a nice summary of this new Clie. And, of course, the big news is the higher resolution (about time!). But it will be only offered in Japan, so this is largely non-news for the rest of the world.
Myself, I'm going to wait for the Palm m505 (aka the "Palm Vc"), which is due out next week.
Alex Bischoff
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Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
Try again on the insults.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
HAHA - you're such a lying sack of shit. Or maybe it's just a furry gerbil you like putting on the back of your neck. Or maybe you recently cut your hair short as part of being a special agent for the Marine Corp.
I'm not worried about some fat ass like you.
For your information, some of us bench 275 and curl 60 pounds, which is why we don't look as frail as such a lightweight like you. Did you remove that gerbil off your neck before you weighed yourself to be 173 pounds?
So pony-tailed geek with a goatee - did you beat Bruce Lee in Tae Kwon Do, Aikido, Jui-Jitsu, or Shodokan? Or did he shove all your imaginary tournament trophies up your ass, because you're so fucking bad at being a compulsive liar?
r. ghaffari
The other great thing about the Prism is that I just pop it in the charger every night (or at work during the day) and I never have to worry about it running out of juice. (Nor memory effects of the batteries.) I have not used it enough in one day yet to wear down the rechargeable.
Ideas in this comment are smarter than they appear.
The ATRAC3 is being handled by a DSP, not the DragonballVZ.
Music Clip / ATRAC is famously user hostile. I for one won't touch it with a 10-foot pole. MP3 or nothing for me.
sulli
RTFJ.
Their software also attempts to delete the source mp3 once conversion is complete.
This is really appalling. This fact should be included in all articles talking about Music Clip / ATRAC / Sony Palm discussions. I for one consider this denial of service and theft of my documents. Class action lawsuit anyone?
sulli
RTFJ.
>this means there must be another ASIC in the mix for decoding the audio
Correct. There is a DSP to handle ATRAC3 decoding.
>you'd get decoded audio with no system load, but it would suck you batteries dry in only a couple of hours.
Not necessarily. Yes, it would suck extra power, but there are low power options.
vandalize the stores, burn some cars, this is a fight against capitalism, folks! (and I hate those snobby frenchies anyway)
I just noticed this story over at CNN: NCR (yup, old National Cash Register) is suing Palm for patent violations. Seems that NCR claims patents on a "Portable personal terminal for use in a system for handling transactions," and on a "System for handling transactions including a portable personal terminal." Those sound like broad concepts to me; I wonder if WinCE handhelds have licensed these patents from NCR?
--
Scott Robert Ladd
Master of Complexity
Destroyer of Order and Chaos
All about me
I stumbled across this article (reg. req.) in NYT today about Kyocera "Putting Palm and Phone in One Hand". Looks like someday soon we'll have only one gadget in our pocket...
But I think the prices that Palm and Palm licensees are charging are out of proportion to the software and hardware. PalmOS is a pretty messy and limited OS, and the company has gotten its return on investment many times over. And the screens and processors on most PalmPilots devices are laughable--pay $400 for some of the Palm devices with a 33MHz 68k with a 160x160 screen? At least the Clie has 320x320, but how well is software actually going to support that?
I think Palm computing is turning into the equivalent of Microsoft: they are falling way behind technologically, but they have a proprietary platform that a lot of people have invested a lot of time and money in and they are squeezing it for every dollar it's worth.
I hope my Palm Pilot will last until PocketLinux becomes a feasible alternative--I would feel silly paying that kind of money for a technologically outdated platform. If I need to buy another one, the lowest end Palm will be just fine: PalmOS doesn't know what to do with a really powerful machine as far as I'm concerned.
That'd be the coolest, no?
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Insert Witty Sig Here
Don't get me wrong, I've had my PalmPilot (original + the PalmIII expansion card) for 4 years, and wouldn't replace it with Windows for nothing, but I first put my hands on a WinCE device (a Cassiopeia) last week and I think its input method is MUCH better.
That graffity area is part of the screen, and when you want to input text, you click on a button and the graffiti (Jot, really) area appears, just like the Palm's on-screen keyboard. Hasn't any PalmOS device manufacturer thought about incorporating this ingenious idea???
That would be THE real "must-have" feature for a PalmOS device.
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Let me get this straight, 2.5 hours of video on a 128 meg memory stick? Yeah, right. Even DivX uses 600+ megabytes to hold that much, and no 33mhz processor can decode MPEG-4 (or MPEG-2), so the video would have to be MPEG-1 or AVI which isn't compressed at all. Who wants to watch grainy (because of the coarse resolution), 10 fps video on a 3 inch screen? Also, the only possible way to cram 4 hours of mp3s would be to encode them at 64 kbps or lower, which is FM radio quality, and besides, Sony hates mp3s because of their ties to the record industry. Other than Sony's outrageous claims, sounds like a winner if they can keep it less than $500.
Unstead of "every program attempts to expand until it can read email" should be changed to "every piece of hardware and software expands until it can play mp3s"
So everyone complaining about the attacks on Fair Use should consider carefully before purchasing one of these.
I AM, therefore I THINK!
You're wrong about one thing...accessories. The Clie's accessories may seem a little light right now, but anyone who was at this year's ComDex can tell you just how much that is going to change. The biggest benefit of Sony's MemStick technology is that (unlike other memory card technologies) the interface is extremely robust and allows the MemStick slot to be used for more than just adding memory.
Sony has already developed a small digital camera that is about the size of a MemStick with a head on it. I got to play with one of these at ComDex in one of the B&W Clies that's available in this country. The resolution is kind of low right now, but it should be pretty obvious that more advanced models can and will follow. Other proposed MemStick devices include a GPS system, fingerprint scanner, radio receiver, MP3 player (kind of useless in the Clie, but may be useful in other MemStick capable devices), and whole host of other devices I can't remember from November.
Now the camera is the only device I'm aware of where there is an actual working prototype, but it's only a matter of time before Sony throws more development effort in this direction to make their Clies more competitive with devices like the HandSpring Visor (which I own and love). Sony looks to be loosening up on the licensing restrictions of their MemStick tech too which would draw more 3rd party developers to make more devices for the interface.
The devices haven't been fully realized yet, but I think in time the Clie's MemStick will put it on par with the Visor's Springboard modules. The physical size of the interface might be it's only real weakness, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if developers found a way around this limitation, and down the road it could even become a selling point (less bulky, lighter, no need for external batteries, etc.).
First issue - the 33mHz VZ *is* fast, about as fast as a 66 mHz SuperH-3, but even that is nowhere near fast enough to decode that they're saying -- this means there must be another ASIC in the mix for decoding the audio. This is a blessing and a curse -- you'd get decoded audio with no system load, but it would suck you batteries dry in only a couple of hours.
Another potential trouble spot -- many, very many, PalmOS apps are (thanks to bad design) dependant on the fact that PalmOS device screen is 160x160, and it it's bigger than that, some things can freak out; we saw this is the 'Newton' world, when the screen resolution changed from 200x336 to 200x320 -- many of your favourite Apps for their butts cut off, and some wouldn't run at all.
And, my finaly gripe is ablout the Graffiti area -- Why, when there is all this screen space and processor power, is the HWR area still *screen printed* on the glass? We can't they make it software?
I don't want to beat up on the (damn good looking) Clie, and I'm not saying this is a bad unit by any means, but I would ask that these specs be taken with a bit of realism. Remember, the first 'Griffin' class WinCE devices made similar claims, and few could deliver them all.
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
$412 in Japan starting april
Actually,
On the palm, whenever you start a new program, the OS sends a stop signal to the running program. The running program then is supposed to store any data it has out and close so the new app can run. Everything is in RAM but the RAM is split into storage and executable space. Only one program gets executable space at a time.
There is multitasking of a sort on the palm. You just have to do it at app level and you don't get any cycles for your background apps. Hmm... Not really multitasking at all.
Dan
And just a little while ago the Be community was all excited because we thought Sony was taking a serious interest in BeIA...
JLG: What happen!!
Mechanic: Someone set us up the PalmOS!
These are two different devices, so hopefully Sony isn't going to pick any one, they're just staying diversified.
--
Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
[o]_O
I believe that the Handspring Visors and the TRG Pro play the exact same trick. There is a fundamental limit in the chipset that Palm uses that caps usable memory at 8MB.
In any case, since you can't multitask in PalmOS, this limits all programs to 8MB minus whatever the system needs and whatever you have stored on the internal memory.
Besides, memory sticks are supposed to be like floppies or a small HD. It is a form of flash memory and is really not suited to use as active memory.
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The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.
what took you so long?
*** I am the real stylewagon
Nobody cares if the data in their Palm is protected but this is just a method to get people used to CPRM devices.
Boycott the Clie until Sony (a member of MPAA with Sony Pictures) removes the CPRM from the device!
ATRAC is making decent inroads into the US. It has the advantage of being sylish, small, and cheap.
74min of MD is $2.50
64mb of MP3 is $90-$120
I meant ATRAC built into MD format. Dunno about software and MemorySticks, only as an audio disc format.
You're right that MD support is so far only in audio components and md players. I've been looking for a md boombox, myself, and have only seen 3, and no stores carry them. You can optically copy ATRAC files to/from MD, and there is also 2x support on some deck components. I don't know about perfect cloning, however, but I suspect that's limited due to Sony/RIAA/copyright concerns. Too bad.
I don't like MS myself, but the MD format is nice because it's cheap. It's only comparable in the PC world is the HipZip from Iomega. It's also cheaper to just get a standalone MD player for $90-$130 and $3 discs than a PDA+MP3+CF, along with a good 10 hourplayback life.
As per battery life, it supposedly gets 11hours, more than the Handspring Prism...
But as per your PalmV + MP3CD, that's a good bet.
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
You CAN run programs directly off the memory stick. You just need to download the MSAutorun utility from the Sony Clie website. It was released on Oct 4 (not long after the Clie came out).
My fiancee is a resident physician and she uses her Clie constantly. For someone that wants a small handheld that can store up to 64 MB of medical textbooks on a single memory stick, the Clie is a godsend. Even better now that the 128 MB sticks are coming out.
--
--
The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.
. Not only is it chock full of hot tech, the handheld also could redefine the mobility of music
Hmmm Sony's answer to 'Portable Ditial Music'... exactly what I dont want to spend my money on
.
Sony was correct in making the jog dial events "proprietary" (i.e. vendor-specific), since anyone writing a Clie-aware app might want to treat the jog dial differently from the up/dn arrows. Where Sony missed the boat was by not making the event handlers built into PalmOS smarter. Similar to Windows or MacOS event handlers, any code that knows what to do with an event flags the event as having been handled. This allows the built-in event handler to provide default actions for unhandled events. Sony should have made the built-in event handler resubmit unhandled jog-dial events and up/dn arrows.
As for the memory stick, I agree that things will be getting much better with the release of PalmOS 4. The support for external file systems is going to look a lot like TRG's existing CF extensions, so it should be trivial for developers to port apps already written for the TRGpro.
--
Dave: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
HAL: Screw you, Dave!
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
I finally have the money to spend to get a PalmOS based PDA and there is no clear decision. Bah!
you said:
"I've kinda considered WinCE handhelds to be way ahead in the game, but it looks like the score may be evening up. "
p
Well, yes, WinCE *are* way ahead of their time - in feature overload!
How many people realistically, on the go, need the MSWord formatting features when writing a quick note? How many people on the go *really* need to watch that Pr0n MPEG? People whose power and feature needs are that high usually have laptops anyway.
========================== pipe(13) -- can you figure it out?
I was at a Sony briefing in London this morning, and the version they're shipping in Europe is more basic - no MP3 player, for a start. The model number is PEG-S/300E. It's nice and slim, as with the US/Japan versions, but lacks the colour screen and faster processor (20Mhz as opposed to 33mhz). They also introduced the QR10, possibly the ugliest consumer notebook I have seen in a long time and very similar in price and spec to the Apple iBook. Damn, but it fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down... Rest of the VAIO notebook line looks great, though. Almost enough to tempt me to get the plastic out.... A shot of the QR1, a Japan-only version, is here: http://www.sony.co.jp/sd/ProductsPark/Consumer/PCO M/PCG-QR1/
Looks a lot better in the shot than in person. Too shiny in the flesh, for a start.
This may be slightly off-topic, but could someone point me in the direction of a relatively cheap PDA that can store at least a meg of text files both from a pen-like device and from a desktop computer? I don't need an address book or, I just need a cheap portable text editor. Does anyone know of a gadget that fits the bill?
I have a epods (wince device from a company that went out of business.) It's got a decent battery life of about 6-8 hours depending on use/screen contrast. That's 6-8 hours with a 6"x4" passive matrix 16bit lcd. I also have a 128mb cf card. What for you ask? GPS maps, music, notes, and whatever else I feel like transfering over. A Palm is great for what it is, but this thing can do everything a Palm can do (we also have a IIIx btw) and a hell of a lot more for the same price. It doesn't quite fit in my pocket as it was originally intended to be a web tablet rather than a PDA, but it fits easily enough into my backpack.
I don't really see the advantage of a one month battery life vs. an 8 hour one. I don't know anyone who uses their PDA 8 hours a day, and I can just plug it into the wall when I get home. Now, my Rio has like a 2 hour battery life which is annoying as all hell. That reminds me - I've gotta go run off to compusa and pick up some cheap NiMH's and a recharger.
I had a Palm III for three years. It is my external memory. I use it as a tool every day and would have difficulty functioning without it. I have also had a Compaq C140+ and a HP200lx (yeah DOS!) and now I bought a Clie and i really like it. Having unlimited memory is great and it is not that hard to move stuff from the stick to internal memory and back. Also there is an app called MSgate that will load and unload apps automagically if you need. The screen is sharp and the quality is good. I only have the monochrome version, I haven't seen the color version in the US. I like the back light better than my old Palm, ( I know it was old and newer models have better screens). I was going to buy a VIIx but I looked at the wireless costs and they were prohibitively expensive. They charge on a per kb basis.
Bottom line - I LIKE MY CLIE.
âoeIn theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." â Albert Einstein
First, you price calculations is a total bullshit. It all depends on a media type. You take the most expensive one - solid state memory. How about MP3 on CD-R? 700MB for a buck. Second, you are mixing up ATRAC and ATRAC3. ATRAC, the original format of MD is fairly decent quality, it is 5:1 compression. ATRAC3 is more like FM quality, 10:1 compression. ATRAC3 is what Sony uses on Palm, and it is also avaliable on some of the latest MD recorders and players. ATRAC is very limited in the respect that you must record from the source directly to MD. With ATRAC3 you can compress WAV to a hard drive, then copy to a player (as a perfect digital copy), similar to mp3, however sony has built some copyright-protection nonsense so in reality it is not that easy.
Heh. Why did I want multitasking on my 486-33 at 640x380?
I don't think this argument holds water when there's a dozen portable MP3-CD players on the market from major manufacturers (like Philips, Casio, Sonicblue/Rio, Teac, etc.) in addition to lots of cheapo chinese oems. None cost more than $200. The RioVolt is about $160, has an MD-style remote and displays ID3 info on a dot-matrix LCD.
All these players support CDRW, allowing for well over 10 hours of 128kbit MP3 on a single rewritable disk. Granted, there's no stereo component recorder for such disks, yet, but then manipulating/storing MP3s is still much easier on a computer with a real keyboard and display.
The newest generation of these players don't even run the CD continuously, but buffer several minutes into RAM and then spin down.
Media cost is less than Minidisk (I bought 100 cdrs for $19 the other day, at a retail CompUSA), and I can use whatever bitrate I prefer, rather than fixed 132kbit ATRAC. I can play the disks I burn in my MP3-supporting DVD player in addition to my portable. There are mini-component and car stereos from Aiwa, Philips, and others that support MP3-CD as well.
Minidisk's looking much less attractive now. I do like the small disks and the hard shell, though.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
It would be easy to make a hackmaster hack that would do this
-no broken link
So the concept seems cool. Pity it sucks in practice...
A friend has a MemoryStick walkman and we tried to install the software on her machine. Only one problem, the software only supports Win98 and ME (she was running W2K).
Oh, and you have to buy the MusicGate variety of memory stick thats $50 more expensive than the regular one.
Oh, and the music format is proprietory, so no mp3's (it will convert them for you when you download then however).
I personally have a memory stick in my digital camera and love it, super easy to use, 40 HiRes photos on each stick and nice and small. I even have the USB memory stick reader attached to my linux box and use gimp to edit the photos, no problem.
But when it comes to music (and video?) forget about it. Sony has copy control coded in.
[Please type your sig here.]
Get a TRGPro its the same form factor (hell, design even) as a PalmIII with a CF slot!
this is a sig.fault
No MP3 support here, no-how. As if regular joes (or even fickle early-adopters) are going to start using sony's ATRAC, when they can't play them in anything but sony players (no, you can't digitally copy ATRAC files to/from minidisc) and must suffer Sony's onerous SDMI requirements (like mandatory check-in of files after x listens, etc.)
This looks nice, but reinforces my belief that the worst thing Sony did to themselves was to get into the music business. Trade MemoryStick(TM) and ATRAC for the open, industry standard CompactFlash and MP3, and they'd have a huge winner. But this thing doesn't look like a particularly good multimedia device - more like a color CLIE with a MusicClip grafted on. Two mediocre devices that go poorly together.
I won't be using a PDA as an MP3 player until it's forgettably seamless, has ample removable solid-state storage (several hours of 192kbit MP3 at least), supports the full range of bitrates to 320kbit, and battery life long enough to spend a week out of the cradle playing a few hours of tunes a day in addition to PDA functions. This thing falls down on all counts - hell, it doesn't even play the MP3's I already have (and I'm not going to convert already lossy mp3's into another lossy format, degrading them further). MagicGate Memorysticks are scarce and expensive, and bitrate is limited to 132kbit in any case.
And it's a chunkster, the thickest PalmOS device yet. And I wonder what kind of battery life they're getting... I wouldn't want to inadvertently drain my batteries dry listening to tunes and find myself needing to look up a contact or be reminded of an appointment later.
I think I'll keep my 2 meg Palm V for PDA use and my MP3-CD player for MP3 use for another few years.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
Does anyone know how much one of these uber-devices cost?
How does adding other functionality remove PIM functionality? I mean, PalmOS was designed to do PIM stuff very well, and it does. Why should it NOT be able to do other stuff very well?
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
it says 2 hours in the editors comment and 160 minutes in the poster's comment. that is not 2 minutes. (I know 2 hours doesn't make any sense, but thats what it says...)
why would i want this new sony thing when for the same price, my casio em-500 has full audio, full video playback, multitasking, mmc and sd expansion, and a much better screen?
:-)
i can even play doom and quake on my em-500. much better than Giraffe, that's for sure!
same old tech, new tricks. blah blah blah.
> assuming you can flash the Sony devices with OS/4.0 when it comes out (which I doubt since it looks like OS/4.0 won't fit in 2mb
According to the Sony Web site, this new version will feature 8 MB of Flash, which should do nicely.
--- In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro
I can't provide direct links (damn frames), but if you want to be able to read the web pages mentioned in this story in English, go to Babelfish, select "Japanese to English," plug in the URL from the story, and click Translate. Granted, the translation isn't much better than AYBABTU, but it's a start.
---
Check in...OK! Check out...OK!
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
Oh yeah, and probably with source code so those of us who use alternative operating systems can compile it for ourselves... (not!)
The Clié allows you to listen to music and use other software at the same time as well. So someone take that +1 informative away from him. Don't say things unless you know then to be true, and have evidence to back it up.
At #35 you should have at least read the story :P
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Without the full specs on the clie, it sounds like there will be additional software to purchase from Sony if you want to move your mp3s to ATRAC3 format.
(I wait impatiently for the english version)
In a place beyond time and space, in a land far better than this, look for me there...
The problem you run into is the slow processor on the Palms.
Don't get me wrong...I love my III, but the processor just isn't up to the task of decoding MP3's. You might check out the Visor Springboard modules that play MP3's, but unfortunately they're just about as expensive as standalone units. The TRGPro would be awesome, if only it had the processor juice to decode MP3...
Here's hoping. The device I lust after just doesn't exist yet.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
But it's still not a real multitasking OS, is it? I hate WinCE, but currently PalmOS is at the level of MacOS 6. Of course, there is Linux.
According to the poster, it have 320x320 display.
It should break most of existing Palm Software,
since now screen layout is stored in resource database with fixed coordinates.
I've always thought that maybe "the score may be early morning up" or at best "the score may be mid afternoon up" but never, never have I thought "the score may be evening up"
Yours,
All the best,
--Bob
I've been using a Visor Deluxe from Handspring for about a year now. Up until I got the Geode GPS unit from GeoDiscovery, I usually had about 4MB free (of 8MB total). I've got several books on my Visor, a lot of apps and so on.
I use my Visor as a PDA ...And as a much scaled down version of a laptop. It's also my wallet, since I bought a slim leather case which, when the Visor's in it, ends up being a fat wallet. :) The Visor is a little computer that goes everywhere with me and does stuff that I need done when I'm more than about 30 minutes from a computer with internet access.
After I got the Geode GPS unit, I quickly went down to about 2MB free and now I'm down to about 300KB free. It's all in maps.
Personally, I'm looking forward to the Geode (and other devices) supporting MMC cards. However, there are CF card readers (springboard module format) for CF. So it's not like you can't expand from the normal 8MB on a Visor Deluxe to ...well, 16, 32, whatever. The Geode has two MMC slots which need some software written for 'em before they'll work. Once that gets written ...say hello to 128MB of MMC storage.
If it wasn't for the Geode GPS and the maps I've gotten for it... I'd probably still be around 4-5MB used (outta 8MB).
Exocet Industries - Taking over the world, one computer at a
Doesn't this device somewhat defeat the purpose of PalmOS, which was simplicity, and just enough functionality to do scheduling and other PIM-type tasks?
Is it me or don't all these mp3 players that companies continue to produce and develop into other products (the handhelds and phones, etc.) fall under the stylized junk that was just panned
aztek: the ultimate man
No sig for you!!
I mean, 99% of the time I only use mine as a TV remote.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
For a Palm with a Compact Flash socket try TRG-Pro they Make a Palm with a CF Type2 slot, so it can accept the IBM Microdrive! 1GB in the Palm of your hand =)
I thought the Zaurus was sweet (and it is) but this has got to be the ultimate A/V package for now
Please compare versus: Compaq iPaq H3635 (64MB coming soon) & the Casio's E125 This Sony device comes close - but IMNSHO dosnt measure up.
Ive said this a thousand times: What we need in the PDA 'industry' is an uncoupling of OS & Hardware. People have a hard time arguing that the Casio/HP/Compaq devices aren't better hardware; its simply that people don't want to buy into a(nother) M$ product. I had a hard time deciding to buy my E100 (I got it shortly after release) because M$ was 'inside'... what I want to be able to do is get it out!
The PDA industry needs to form a 'standards' body of some kind. Once this occurs I would hope to see 3Com, PocketLinux(Transvirtual), M$, Qt, Yopy, Agenda, RIP, SHARP and others write their OSs to that standard! Let the Hardware people compete on hardware (and drive features up/prices down) and let the Software Compete on Software (and drive the features up/price down). What we have here is a mess of compromise when choosing PDAs. I would have loved my Casio to come with a LinuxPDA distro of some kind, or maybe PalmOS - but the E100 had their features beat hands down.
Can someone direct me to an effort, mailing list, website of some group/person who also sees this major flaw in the direction of the PDA world? What we need is a de-coupling, witness the result of the PC world when IBM opened the PC, contrast this with the direction that Apple took. Not to slight the Apple camp, but the diversity, power, price, ubiquity, 'openness' of the PC and its model would be a good idea for the PDA world.
Wince's multitasking is one of the biggest advantages it has over the PalmOS. Especially if, like the Clie, you want to listen to music and do something else. Reading an ebook, or AvantGoing, while listening to music is something that CAN be done, and therefore IS done on my iPAQ.
Ok, while this topic is growing pretty quick here, www.pdabuzz.com and Palm Info Center are going psycho.... Anyhow, palminfocenter.com is being handily /.ed at the moment....Check out http://www2.pdabuzz.com/Forums/showthread.php?thre adid=14299&pagenumber=1 for some more info and discussion.
:D. Also, don't forget, this clie is rather think, not as think as the Casio 1xx line of devices, "bricks" they are not so affectionatly called by palm enthusiests. However, for the features, this clie is definately the most appealing Palm ever, I just want that 320x320 resolution....hmmm 128 Meg memory stick chock full of pictures, but probably in 8-bit color, I can't remember where I heard that one. Anyhow, I'm just glad to see that what sony has done is within the realm of the PalmOS....Until then, everyone run to your local Staples and pick up a IIIxe for $149.99, with free copies of Desktop to go and Documents to go....I just wish IIIxe's were that cheap when I bought mine, but I'm happy, now I shall be quiet
Finally, the new Clie is selling for US$418 in Japan at the moment, and thats a pretty good deal, unfortunately we won't see the Clie, unless someone is going to Hong Kong soon
Why should I carry more than one device with an LCD screen and a decent user interface?
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Ah, good point. I meant the old Clie though like the guy currently has. It's disappointing he's going to have to dump his $400 investment to use Memory Sticks to their true potential. Price of early adoption I guess.
1. The PEG-N700C is going to be released in the US later this year: http://yahoofin.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-5136591.h tml?tag=pt.yahoofin.financefeed..ne
2. Does anyone know what the color depth of the screen is? I'm assuming that it's 8-bit, because Sony would be flaunting the color depth if it were 16-bit. I've run the fish over all of the pages on Sony's PEG-N700C site, and I can't find any mention of the color depth at all. I just find it really hard to believe that Sony would release an 8-bit color screen when Handspring has had 16-bit color for months.
I guess the springboard slot from Handspring and a Compact Flash slot on the Trgpro haven't crossed your desk yet. Yeah, they're innovating, kinda the way Microsoft does.
There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself
There is no trap so deadly as the trap you set for yourself
-Raymond Chandler, The Long Goodbye
I'm happy with the life on my clie. I use it alot (PIM stuff -- not movies) and cradle it every few days. Even so, I have never seen the battery indicator drop from 100% even by a pixel, so I can't extrapolate how long I really have.
Sony estimates its lithium-ion polymer battery will last for 15 days of regular use, 11 hours of music playback, 3 hours of video playback.
:)) for now thank you very much.
I'll stick with my Nexcell rechargeable NiMH AAA's (~700 mAHs..
Oh, and in regard to the below, I'm pretty sure it is 8-bit...320x320 is enough to burden a Dragonball with in the first place. It's still feeding 2x as much video information as a Handspring Prism (160x160x16bit) vs. the clies (320x320x8bit)
The original ATRAC is a minidisc compression scheme. It's quite refined, provides the 5:1 compression. A newer one, ATRAC3 is avialable on the latest minidisk recorders/player models and this is the one used by Clio. It provides the compression roughly 10:1, a quality is substantially lower than ATRAC. But my major complain is all those security features built in. Even if this is your own recording, from your own CD, Sony does really bizarre things like allowing to playback only 8 times (or so), then you have to sign in again. A memory stick is proprietory and too expensive. Finally MP3 to ATRAC3 conversion is not a good idea, it will substantially degrade the quality. These are the reasons I'm going to stay away from this box even from the technical perspective it looks quite amazing.
> 3. I remember reading about a palmOS emulator for WinCE devices.
That won't help you keep your batteries alive or help you with your WinCE OS crashing.
Hmm.. Although I could hardly say my iPaq *never* crashes, I had far more paperclip moments with my palm.. -Not to mention the iPaq is a way faster reboot from soft reset than the palm. When my palm bit the dust I bought a IIIc, for the G-wiz factor - On the second day I had it, it froze up solid, and worst of all, a soft reset deleted all records in memory - not to mention that 256 colours is hardly stunning, and you cant actually *read* the screen outdoors or in any bright ambient light.
These are basically two completely different types of devices: The palm is an excellent address book/ PIM, but the CE devices are basically 'pocket computers' - 2 megs of addresses and appointments is plenty, but I really love listening to hundreds of megs of MP3's while I type in pocket word at 320x240, -To each their own.
BTW - I've not found the battery life to be an issue, I've used my iPaq all day long and never had it hit low battery, I sync daily and this tops the battery up - For trips there are battery extenders that take AA batterys, and my favorite - The PocketPal folding solar panel - battery life till the cows come home (or the sun goes behind a cloud)
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Vices - what I lack in originality, I make up for in volume.
The screen is the size of less than half of a paperback. No way anyone would watch a 2 hour movie on that.
Then there is the battery life with it running streaming video and audio.
Any sort of multimedia is nice on these things but have very little pratical, real-world use.
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
When my trusty Palm III (original!) died several months ago, I was forced to replace it. Since the Palm V was the same thing that'd been released a year before, I gave the Clie a try.
Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad device. But the Jog Dial, while a great idea, is poorly implemented and supported by almost nothing. (An exception is Vindigo...that shocked the hell outta me!) The memory stick suffers from the same problem: It's neato, but worthless. You cannot do anything with it except copy data back and forth between it and RAM. This essentially makes it into a harder to use backup device that is pre-obsoleted by Hotsync.
Now, none of this really hurts the Clie, and it costs the same as a Palm Vx without the added neat-o devices, but the big killer has been accessories. The Clie doesn't have the support of 3rd parth accessory makers like Palm (or even Handspring) has. The case that comes with the Clie is retarded, but I can't replace it because a replacement doesn't exist!
The new Clie doesn't seem to offer anything really new and must-have. I mean, who really wants to watch a 2-minute movie clip on their PDA? Not many...
For those of us who don't read Japanese, is there a price (hopefully USD) mentioned somewhere in the page?
--
Well, I commented on the new Handspring a couple of days ago, and pondered what was really so good with it. Now, on the other hand, I can see great strides in innovation with this device. Unfortunately there is no price I can see.
The benefits I see here are primarily for existing Sony product users. I am keen on the Sony digital camera's, and have been tempted by the Vaio. So, having a common memory stick access accross the brands is a great thing. Obviosly the biggest benefit is with the interoperability, and the great storage benefit of the memory stick.
It is a shame that the memory stick is so propriatory, yet I have yet to see palms with Compact flash / PCMCIA type add-ons for additional storage. Thus, Sony is truly innovating.
Go get 'em, Sony.
.. if only.
I wish Sony wouldn't do proprietary memory sticks.
I thougth they'd tried that (years ago) before and found nobody would buy. I know I've been burnt by proprietary memory (10x the cost of regular memory), and have no desire to buy any product that doesn't use a standard memory chip.
When I die, please cast my ashes upon Bill Gates -- for once, make him clean up after me!
I'm pretty sure sony are going to announce a docking station they will call Torris.
I've had a PalmVx for over a year now, and I use it on a very regular basis. I've also borrowed a friend's WinCE device, and noticed that the CE device was much more appealing to me.
1. It was color.
2. It had just as much software as my palm device did.
3. I remember reading about a palmOS emulator for WinCE devices. Not sure if it's true, but judging by the PalmOS SDK, it'll be easier to emulate palmOS on a CE device than vice versa.
4. CE devices get all the cool gizmos. My Vx has IR and a serial port. My friend's CE device has IR, serial, and a compact flash card compartment (which he filled with a 90MB IBM microdrive). Needless to say, his handheld was more fun to use and could hole a HELL of a lot more stuff.
..Please.. not a *palm pilot*.. an *iPaq* -I've evolved, and thats MR. neo-quasi-zoom-dweebie to you AC.
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Vices - what I lack in originality, I make up for in volume.
Have a look around the web, and you will see that the PalmOS market share is shrinking, and Compaq and Casio are increasing (more so in Europe).
When did the PalmOS go out of style? Since when is WinCE the leader in handhelds?
In terms of popularity, Palm sells more than anybody. In fact, Palm and Handspring together had 87 percent of the market in June 2000.
Technically, the PalmOS is limited, but definitely good enough. They're the ones that finally got the interface "right". They've got the right form factor, ease-of-use, battery life and necessary speed. They don't have a huge list of bells, whistles and gongs, but the essentials are there - and physically stripped down to exactly the size I want. It is exactly what you need as a PDA. More features (cameras, GPS, colour, music, phone, wireless are available as add-ons) are nice, but they aren't always essential, and shouldn't come at a permanent increase in size.
WinCE is attempting to be an all-singing, all-dancing embedded OS. The reality is that it's being handily beaten by Palm in the handheld market, by WindRiver (and other embedded OSes) in the realtime and embedded markets.
Handspring is finally producing the phone that I've wanted ever since I tried to juggle my old Casio BOSS and a cellular brick-phone. Now if only it was available in Canada. (Oh, and by the way Nokia, I don't want to enter appointments into a phone, using a clumsy keypad and itty-bitty screen).
There are still way more apps for PalmOS than any of its competitors, and developers get the benefits of an open environment. WinCE is a real late-comer and doesn't offer enough improvements to be the front-runner.
The non-disclaimer: I own a Palm Vx, chosen specifically because of it's form factor, user-interface and applications. I write embedded telecommunications software (on realtime OSes) for a living. That's my basis for these opinions.
Depends on how they measure that 11 hours. Is it 11 hours of continuous usage, or 11 hours of standby? (Or, god help us, 11 hours of "typical use"?)
I've been using Runtime to track my Palm III's battery usage. It says that I've been pretty consistently changing my batteries once a month. Within each 30 day span I've gotten a pretty consistent 14-15 hours of use. (The rest of the time the Palm is "off".) Anyway, if the quoted 11 hours is "11 hours of solid usage", that's not far from what I get right now. I'd gladly trade a third of my battery life for a high-res color screen!
Chelloveck
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
ideally I would like to see Compact Flash II compatible palm device - even if it makes it thicker, and DSP capable of playing back MP3. I don't want to touch Sony memory stick and ATRAC3. period. The alternative is to have a sufficient fast processor like strongarm (which as I understand palm will be moving to next year), and run the decoder as a software. however this will eat lots of power. dsp is more efficient. of course having decoder as a software gives you the ultimate flexibility. mp+ or aac decoders can be ported to strongarm and probably will be at some point. at 128Kbps aac is a viable alternative to MP3, and at 192KBps+, mpplus really rocks. so - for the time being - MP3-CD is the only inexpensive solution. but I would LOVE to see digital audio playback device as a part of palm. just think of all the possibilities! Cheers.
Depends on how they measure that 11 hours. Is it 11 hours of continuous usage, or 11 hours of standby?
I just assumed that Sony wants to advertise the best of the three.
Incidentally, the high-praised Yopi has 11 hours standby, 4 hours running time according to the Yopi guy at the CeBIT 2000. I never saw Yopi's battery life mentioned anywhere else.
Censorship on Slashdot
I wouldn't want someone to glue my Rolodex to my Stereo.. why would you want Sony to glue a Memory Stick player to a PDA?
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- Size
- Battery life
The Sony puts up a good fight, but 11 hours is peanuts for people outsourcing major parts of their brain (like me).Censorship on Slashdot
What is the battery life on this one?
One of the reason I went for the Visor Deluxe instead of the color one was because of with the Deluxe model (b/w), two AAA batteries last almost 3 weeks, while the guy at the counter only thought one charge of the color version would last 6-8 hours (or something like that).
Je ne parle pas francais.