I was for 7 years, the fact that lusers would never heed my warings, read the documentation, or flat out needed things repeated to them 20 times in a row made me decide to quit being the McDonalds coke and a smile "Hi How may I fix your computer today?"
Near my 7th year, I became frustrated, started telling people how stupid I thought they were to their face (Usually after the 8th time of explaining something) And generally degraded into the self absorbed irritating prick that I am today.
2 years later i'm still recovering. Where I used to fix my friends and families computers for free I now charge the shit outta them till they don't wanna come back. Everytime the phone rings my hair still stands up on end because i'm afraid of yet another person saying, "Hey toq just wanted to ask you a quick question!" No it's never a quick question, it's a gateway into a line of questioning not even the worse murderer would be subjected to in a police interregation.
And you dare say was I ever a sysadmin, jeesh. I'd bet money I could w00p your arse in a contest of skills any day of the week. Trust me kid, you just haven't burned out yet, but you will. And when you do, that's where open source with the lack of stupid people and politics will be waiting.
So ford should be held liable for building OJ's Bronco?
Monkeys in africa should be held liable for being the first to contract aids?
My parents should be held accountable for every fuckup I ever did in my life?
Your biological virus argument has no basis in the silicon world. The only person who knowingly infected these boxes was the original virus writer, not MS.
By your logic we should hold god accountable for making humans compatible with aids.
Well, I used to work with the guys from play inc. One of them basically explained how the snappy video snapshot worked.
Their custom chip was sort of combination of rom/ram and logic. The rom acted as a bootstrap for basic parrelel port communications. The ram would store code downloaded via the parrelel port, and the logic would chew on that.
Basically the snappy never really got any REAL upgrades to the hardware. (note this is where nvidia and play differs, nvidia adds faster hardware) Versions 1 2 and 3 of the snappy were all nothing more than "soft upgrades"
I think nvidia cards work in the same fashion, that's why we see such an performance increase between driver releases because the actual chip logic is loaded at boot.
1. Preboot, vga compatible mode 2. Boot, load custom OS specific hardware register code 3. Load OS specific driver for glue between the OS and the hardware (which is really software)
There is only so much you can do from calls to the OS for speed. If on the otherhand you could "soft upgrade" the hardware on boot, everytime you optimized that boot software a little more, it would stand to reason that the card would run faster.
So basically if you wanted to add that "gwhiz AA x4" feature to your card, you could write it in software, and load it into your card at boot.
Like I said earlier, nvidia open sourcing it would probably lead to a lot of the newer cards features being found on older cards, only a helluva lot slower. This too, is a reasonable assumption because the hardware is slower. It's no less capable of running the same code though.
Did you even bother to read what I just said? Do I have to post links for you to read? (why bother, you didn't read my comment)
#1. Just a few days ago on/. there was an article about a root apache exploit. #2. It doesn't matter HOW it gets there, what matters is that it does, be it mail client exploit or service exploit. #3. Your comment sounds along the lines of "LUNIX IS INVINCABLE!" Which it can be, unless there is a root exploit like the one I described above. This was very heavily discussed on slashdot about a week ago.
You can't blame MS for making a product with holes, it's their culture.
A virus packaged with a root kit for example would circumvent your little point and make your comment totally useless!
With the recent root exploit on apache, it probably won't be too long before someone writes a worm to look for all those unpatched apache boxes. Yours could be next!
Lets recap. Worm that uses the apache exploit gains root (no rootkit needed) Worm then makes modem dial 911, just ATDT 911 is needed, no ATH0 911
Get it? BTW your point of if you're running a linux box you're NOT running WebTV, which is how it propagates. is moot because this thread was about liability, not how the virus propegates.
M$ sends an automated voice message out to all their subscibers. Either that or make all the access numbers just play this instead of sending any actual data.
"Services will not be availiable today because of a virus that affects webtv users. The virus takes control of the webTV modem and causes it to dial 911. Please unplug your webtv unit from the phone line until we can fix the problem. Please call 555-1212 if you suspect your webtv has been affected"
Clean up your mail servers. Install something to filter out the virus and any varients. Even the least tech savvy people will understand "It dials 911" and "Unplug your webtv"
You're saying it's MS's fault someone not an MS employee wrote this malicious code?
If it's anyone's liability it comes down to the person that wrote the virus. The same thing COULD be done on a linux system too, should linus be held liable? Should the whole open source community be held liable?
Your comment was stupid, I just wanted to point that out.
Don't think that your 6 year old TNT2 card will become some magic speed demon if nVidia gives you driver source.
Did I say that? I thought I said... If that really is the case, it means that TNT2 cards are capable of all the neat tricks gforce cards only alot slower.
fuck. No I'm seroius! I met a spammer in person! I reposted "Spamming for Dumbasses" on several spam related stories so do a search if you want some more detail.
Basically from the spammer I saw and met, they completely take the argument of network resources out of the argument. If its on purpose or not, they play completely dumb to the problem of cloggin up mail servers.
Right now, spamming IS and WILL be a legitimate business until proper legislation is made. As the spammer I talked to said, "Spamcop is interferring with my AMERICAN right to do business" Not that I agree with him, I was a sysadmin for 7 years so I know what damage he does to the systems out there. Funny thing is though, he's right! As anoying as it is, as much as I hate to admit it, spamming isn't really illegal anywhere yet.
Another problem is with the laws that are created. One such law states something along the lines of, you must remove someone from your mailing list if they ask you. My spammers way around that was to keep a master list which he never touched, and just remove people from the sub list. I.e.
His company was Company X He spammed for and from Company Y He gets a remove from list for company Y, but not X and the spam just keeps on comin.
I made another +5 post about the Italians deleting that guys web site hosted in america. If we really want to put an end to this problem we would not allow spammers to look for loopholes like the one I explained above. Anyone that tries to find loopholes in the laws has no respect for them at all. Last time I checked all our laws are written in english, I may not have a law degree but I can follow the books well enough. Why does our goverment allow loopholes and circumvention to laws to be legal? Maybe we SHOULD take a hint from italy.
You live somewhere, you follow the laws, simple as that. Be it real world or internet. People that circumvent those laws are scum.
For as long as I remember, the #1 complaint from the open source community has been the lack of open source X drivers, and the lack of documentation for directly accessing the hardware.
This still isn't direct access to the hardware is it? This is an API that goes through a compiler that translates things into machine code. Absolutely no real access to speak of.
Sometimes I wonder if nvidia cards are truly the hardware marvels that they are. Their implementation sort of reminds me of Play Incorporated's snappy video snapshot, where the hardware functions and bios get's loaded by an external program. I don't know if this is the exact case with nvidia hardware, but i'm pretty sure i'm not that far off the mark.
If that really is the case, it means that TNT2 cards are capable of all the neat tricks gforce cards only alot slower. I can see why you wouldn't want it opened up to the public. What's to stop a competetor from using the same hardware/software implementation you are?
I don't think it would seriously put a dent in the bottom line however. People tend to keep loyaltee's towards a company if it doesn't fuck their customers. Look at how many hits a day voodoofiles.com gets!
So be bold and daring like the new dorito's. Let other companies mimic your techniques, and try not to worry about the bottom line so much. If you let a bunch of open source guru's hack on your code, you could fire a few of those internal programmers thereby making up the cost. If you do this, anytime a relative, friend, customer asks us what 3d card solution they should get, we will respond NVIDIA.
Oh yeah i've seen your Mp3 player a ton of times, even posted it in a/. comment once. I never knew the PRJC author hung out here!
You are absolutely right though on the economies of scale thing, only way something could be sold at a reasonable cost is to build a bunch of them, and it's not too clear if the public is ready for a device that uses an internal component from a laptop, it sounds scary!
One of these days, when i'm working again and not losing weight to this pay the mortgage eat ramen diet I might get one of your units cause they are about the coolest and closest thing to what I want.
A laptop hard drive has all the pins, power included built into one 44 pin micro molex connector. Other than changing a jumper, they would just have to slide it in.
Well DUH if you cut and paste like that. Maybe if thats all I said. My comment was a little more detailed than that!
There are certain laws in the states to protect people, they just aren't in place in italy. Italy as an ally we have treaties with, is respected. They are allowed to run their own country how they want it. You don't see USA invading their soil do you?
Just a simple box that I can plug my OWN hard drives into?
All I want, and please hear me out, is a pretty plastic box big enough to fit a laptop drive. Put a rechargable lithium ion battery in it. Some sort of LCD screen, Alphanumeric, TFT display, I don't care.
Keep the OS in a rom so I don't have to worry about storing it on the hard drive. Make sure there is enough OS to format the drive fat32.
And I want all this for about $100 bucks. I think that's fair. Why do I need to buy another laptop drive when I got so many sitting around?
Were you even born in 1950? I wasn't, shit I wasn't born till 1973, in San Jose california of all places.
I know some of my elders are pretty racist. I have a Great Uncle (grandpa's brother) who's nicknamed "Crazy Horse" for good reasons, I.E. everyone thinks he's crazy.
I went to our fruit stand one day to visit, we were standing out front watching the cars pass back and forth into and out of the community college drinkin a soda. Year was 1988 I think.
"Look at all these god damn gooks coming over here!!! The goverment is paying for them to get educated, they're going to take over!!" and "You worthless peice of shit, you better get in school if you don't want San Jose turning into gookland!" He went on berating me for not going into a trade and how it would be my fault for letting the gooks take over.
Well, neither me nor my father or uncles share that view. Point is, maybe SOME people from the 1950's and before were are that way. In my family, we only had 1 jackass like that, maybe a few secretly racist and the rest didn't give a shit. The ones that kept it secret didn't pass it to their kids, the ones that didn't give a shit didn't pass it to their kids, and the 1 member that was actively and openly racist alienated himself from his own kid, she couldn't fit in with the rest of the family when nobody wanted her or her parents around. She rebelled, she's not a racist, nor is her 1/2 mexican son.
Yes some people in USA were pretty bad, but it's not like that anymore. There is still some racism, but people now have a recourse against it which is a good thing.
Being 4th generation here, there is a level of "detatchment" I feel from my older relatives. I do sometimes try and really overplay the whole italian thing, sort of a machismo if you will to fit in with them.
Funny how humans act to fit in with their families isn't it? Actually though, because i'm a techie and not a farmer or a tradesman i've managed to even further detatch myself from them.
Yes but because the USA has extridition treaties, we must allow italy to uphold the law on their citizens when they commit a crime either on, or from their own soil.
Until there is some sort of ammendment that states otherwise, a vote, whatever then this will be the policy in these post 911 times. Last time I checked, we have a ton of air bases over in Italy, not to mention it's not too far off from those 747 hijacking, world trade center destroying, cocksucking terrorist.
It's politics. Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils to accomplish a task. In this case, I think it's in USA's best interest not to put up a stink about it. We need Italy for it's intellegence, location, and natural resources as much as they need us for our technology.
Think about the Church/State goverment they have over there with the vatican for a second. How many people in the world are catholic? How many would tell their priest during confession something that might help catch osama bin laden? Maybe they have some ancient book on alien technology that we use today, who knows? Point the vatican is a HUGE intellegence gathering device.
There's a big picture in all this, and that's if it really makes you unhappy, go out, lobby, change stuff. Me for the most part, knowing what an assett Italian air bases are to USA soil, and my catholic religion, I can really care less about this guy.
Speaking of which, which is politically correct? Your view? Mine? Italies? It's all a matter of perspective really. Each one is entitled to that. This was an italian citizen, not an american where you ARE entitled to our privelidges and freedoms. He tried to circumvent the law to break it in his own country, what makes you think he's going to have a better respect for our laws here?
#1 The Italian police action was probably legal in italy. #2 By living in italy, the guy automatically is under italian law and his rights are dicted by that goverment #3 I wouldn't put it past him to have given his consent to access the system in liu of a lighter sentance #4 How is this disrespecting any american law? #5 If american hosting companies don't like these coutries laws, why don't they turn away their business?
Still though it doesn't matter WHERE it's hosted. What matters is who created and uploaded the content from where, and what local laws they've broken.
In italy there is hardly and seperation between church and state, the vatican pretty much runs it all. The catholic religion is a very HUGE part of italian culture and to the italians desecrating the virgin is a VERY serious thing. I know this because my family is VERY italian and despite living in the USA we still hold strong to our belief system.
The thing is, the guy was in his own country when he did the offense. He probably TOLD them his password for a lighter sentance. How is that unauthorized access? It isn't! Shit if I was facing 10 years in the slag vs. 1 year for giving up my password, well then here! **********
You really gotta understand the culture, we have extridition treaties with italy for a reason. Nothing was extridited though, it italy it's probably leagle to search someones computer. There might be a law giving the state the right to do it, we just don't know because we don't live there. If there is a law like that, it's just a part of living in italy, and being a citizen.
If american hosting companies are afraid of foriegn goverments doing this to their citizens then they shouldn't do business with them. Simple as that. They should have a big ass bold lettering in their TOS like this..
We do not provide service to accounts from Italy, Cuba, China, Russia because we do not agree with thier censorship laws"
Thing is, we're so strapped for cash right now, I think many companies are more willing to make a buck than to fight for some censorship issue.
Slashdot Mirror
I was for 7 years, the fact that lusers would never heed my warings, read the documentation, or flat out needed things repeated to them 20 times in a row made me decide to quit being the McDonalds coke and a smile "Hi How may I fix your computer today?"
Near my 7th year, I became frustrated, started telling people how stupid I thought they were to their face (Usually after the 8th time of explaining something) And generally degraded into the self absorbed irritating prick that I am today.
2 years later i'm still recovering. Where I used to fix my friends and families computers for free I now charge the shit outta them till they don't wanna come back. Everytime the phone rings my hair still stands up on end because i'm afraid of yet another person saying, "Hey toq just wanted to ask you a quick question!" No it's never a quick question, it's a gateway into a line of questioning not even the worse murderer would be subjected to in a police interregation.
And you dare say was I ever a sysadmin, jeesh. I'd bet money I could w00p your arse in a contest of skills any day of the week. Trust me kid, you just haven't burned out yet, but you will. And when you do, that's where open source with the lack of stupid people and politics will be waiting.
--toq
So ford should be held liable for building OJ's Bronco?
Monkeys in africa should be held liable for being the first to contract aids?
My parents should be held accountable for every fuckup I ever did in my life?
Your biological virus argument has no basis in the silicon world. The only person who knowingly infected these boxes was the original virus writer, not MS.
By your logic we should hold god accountable for making humans compatible with aids.
Great another raving looney :P
Well, I used to work with the guys from play inc. One of them basically explained how the snappy video snapshot worked.
Their custom chip was sort of combination of rom/ram and logic. The rom acted as a bootstrap for basic parrelel port communications. The ram would store code downloaded via the parrelel port, and the logic would chew on that.
Basically the snappy never really got any REAL upgrades to the hardware. (note this is where nvidia and play differs, nvidia adds faster hardware) Versions 1 2 and 3 of the snappy were all nothing more than "soft upgrades"
I think nvidia cards work in the same fashion, that's why we see such an performance increase between driver releases because the actual chip logic is loaded at boot.
1. Preboot, vga compatible mode
2. Boot, load custom OS specific hardware register code
3. Load OS specific driver for glue between the OS and the hardware (which is really software)
There is only so much you can do from calls to the OS for speed. If on the otherhand you could "soft upgrade" the hardware on boot, everytime you optimized that boot software a little more, it would stand to reason that the card would run faster.
So basically if you wanted to add that "gwhiz AA x4" feature to your card, you could write it in software, and load it into your card at boot.
Like I said earlier, nvidia open sourcing it would probably lead to a lot of the newer cards features being found on older cards, only a helluva lot slower. This too, is a reasonable assumption because the hardware is slower. It's no less capable of running the same code though.
Hope that clears things up.
Did you even bother to read what I just said? Do I have to post links for you to read? (why bother, you didn't read my comment)
/. there was an article about a root apache exploit.
#1. Just a few days ago on
#2. It doesn't matter HOW it gets there, what matters is that it does, be it mail client exploit or service exploit.
#3. Your comment sounds along the lines of "LUNIX IS INVINCABLE!" Which it can be, unless there is a root exploit like the one I described above. This was very heavily discussed on slashdot about a week ago.
You can't blame MS for making a product with holes, it's their culture.
That's just ignorant...
A virus packaged with a root kit for example would circumvent your little point and make your comment totally useless!
With the recent root exploit on apache, it probably won't be too long before someone writes a worm to look for all those unpatched apache boxes. Yours could be next!
Lets recap.
Worm that uses the apache exploit gains root (no rootkit needed)
Worm then makes modem dial 911, just ATDT 911 is needed, no ATH0 911
Get it? BTW your point of if you're running a linux box you're NOT running WebTV, which is how it propagates. is moot because this thread was about liability, not how the virus propegates.
Someone Mod the parent up! Squid that has to be about the most insightful thing i've read so far on this thread.
--toq
Here here ng! Well put, even better than what I said :P
M$ sends an automated voice message out to all their subscibers. Either that or make all the access numbers just play this instead of sending any actual data.
"Services will not be availiable today because of a virus that affects webtv users. The virus takes control of the webTV modem and causes it to dial 911. Please unplug your webtv unit from the phone line until we can fix the problem. Please call 555-1212 if you suspect your webtv has been affected"
Clean up your mail servers. Install something to filter out the virus and any varients. Even the least tech savvy people will understand "It dials 911" and "Unplug your webtv"
Just some advice.
--toq
You're saying it's MS's fault someone not an MS employee wrote this malicious code?
If it's anyone's liability it comes down to the person that wrote the virus. The same thing COULD be done on a linux system too, should linus be held liable? Should the whole open source community be held liable?
Your comment was stupid, I just wanted to point that out.
Don't think that your 6 year old TNT2 card will become some magic speed demon if nVidia gives you driver source.
Did I say that? I thought I said...
If that really is the case, it means that TNT2 cards are capable of all the neat tricks gforce cards only alot slower.
Please read comments before replying, thank you.
--toq
A countries law takes priority over any civil contract. Yet another simple thing to point out.
fuck. No I'm seroius! I met a spammer in person! I reposted "Spamming for Dumbasses" on several spam related stories so do a search if you want some more detail.
Basically from the spammer I saw and met, they completely take the argument of network resources out of the argument. If its on purpose or not, they play completely dumb to the problem of cloggin up mail servers.
Right now, spamming IS and WILL be a legitimate business until proper legislation is made. As the spammer I talked to said, "Spamcop is interferring with my AMERICAN right to do business" Not that I agree with him, I was a sysadmin for 7 years so I know what damage he does to the systems out there. Funny thing is though, he's right! As anoying as it is, as much as I hate to admit it, spamming isn't really illegal anywhere yet.
Another problem is with the laws that are created. One such law states something along the lines of, you must remove someone from your mailing list if they ask you. My spammers way around that was to keep a master list which he never touched, and just remove people from the sub list. I.e.
His company was Company X
He spammed for and from Company Y
He gets a remove from list for company Y, but not X
and the spam just keeps on comin.
I made another +5 post about the Italians deleting that guys web site hosted in america. If we really want to put an end to this problem we would not allow spammers to look for loopholes like the one I explained above. Anyone that tries to find loopholes in the laws has no respect for them at all. Last time I checked all our laws are written in english, I may not have a law degree but I can follow the books well enough. Why does our goverment allow loopholes and circumvention to laws to be legal? Maybe we SHOULD take a hint from italy.
You live somewhere, you follow the laws, simple as that. Be it real world or internet. People that circumvent those laws are scum.
--toq
Nvidia, if you're reading this, please read.
For as long as I remember, the #1 complaint from the open source community has been the lack of open source X drivers, and the lack of documentation for directly accessing the hardware.
This still isn't direct access to the hardware is it? This is an API that goes through a compiler that translates things into machine code. Absolutely no real access to speak of.
Sometimes I wonder if nvidia cards are truly the hardware marvels that they are. Their implementation sort of reminds me of Play Incorporated's snappy video snapshot, where the hardware functions and bios get's loaded by an external program. I don't know if this is the exact case with nvidia hardware, but i'm pretty sure i'm not that far off the mark.
If that really is the case, it means that TNT2 cards are capable of all the neat tricks gforce cards only alot slower. I can see why you wouldn't want it opened up to the public. What's to stop a competetor from using the same hardware/software implementation you are?
I don't think it would seriously put a dent in the bottom line however. People tend to keep loyaltee's towards a company if it doesn't fuck their customers. Look at how many hits a day voodoofiles.com gets!
So be bold and daring like the new dorito's. Let other companies mimic your techniques, and try not to worry about the bottom line so much. If you let a bunch of open source guru's hack on your code, you could fire a few of those internal programmers thereby making up the cost. If you do this, anytime a relative, friend, customer asks us what 3d card solution they should get, we will respond NVIDIA.
yours truly
--toq
Oh yeah i've seen your Mp3 player a ton of times, even posted it in a /. comment once. I never knew the PRJC author hung out here!
You are absolutely right though on the economies of scale thing, only way something could be sold at a reasonable cost is to build a bunch of them, and it's not too clear if the public is ready for a device that uses an internal component from a laptop, it sounds scary!
One of these days, when i'm working again and not losing weight to this pay the mortgage eat ramen diet I might get one of your units cause they are about the coolest and closest thing to what I want.
--Toq
The data originated from italy and was promptly kidnapped and taken back, who gives a fuck really?
Well,
If they can build a cybiko for $100 bucks then why not a cybiko to IDE interface? Seems simple enough.
Well for starters,
A laptop hard drive has all the pins, power included built into one 44 pin micro molex connector. Other than changing a jumper, they would just have to slide it in.
Well DUH if you cut and paste like that. Maybe if thats all I said. My comment was a little more detailed than that!
There are certain laws in the states to protect people, they just aren't in place in italy. Italy as an ally we have treaties with, is respected. They are allowed to run their own country how they want it. You don't see USA invading their soil do you?
Just a simple box that I can plug my OWN hard drives into?
All I want, and please hear me out, is a pretty plastic box big enough to fit a laptop drive. Put a rechargable lithium ion battery in it. Some sort of LCD screen, Alphanumeric, TFT display, I don't care.
Keep the OS in a rom so I don't have to worry about storing it on the hard drive. Make sure there is enough OS to format the drive fat32.
And I want all this for about $100 bucks. I think that's fair. Why do I need to buy another laptop drive when I got so many sitting around?
Were you even born in 1950? I wasn't, shit I wasn't born till 1973, in San Jose california of all places.
I know some of my elders are pretty racist. I have a Great Uncle (grandpa's brother) who's nicknamed "Crazy Horse" for good reasons, I.E. everyone thinks he's crazy.
I went to our fruit stand one day to visit, we were standing out front watching the cars pass back and forth into and out of the community college drinkin a soda. Year was 1988 I think.
"Look at all these god damn gooks coming over here!!! The goverment is paying for them to get educated, they're going to take over!!" and "You worthless peice of shit, you better get in school if you don't want San Jose turning into gookland!" He went on berating me for not going into a trade and how it would be my fault for letting the gooks take over.
Well, neither me nor my father or uncles share that view. Point is, maybe SOME people from the 1950's and before were are that way. In my family, we only had 1 jackass like that, maybe a few secretly racist and the rest didn't give a shit. The ones that kept it secret didn't pass it to their kids, the ones that didn't give a shit didn't pass it to their kids, and the 1 member that was actively and openly racist alienated himself from his own kid, she couldn't fit in with the rest of the family when nobody wanted her or her parents around. She rebelled, she's not a racist, nor is her 1/2 mexican son.
Yes some people in USA were pretty bad, but it's not like that anymore. There is still some racism, but people now have a recourse against it which is a good thing.
Yeah I totally agree with you...
Being 4th generation here, there is a level of "detatchment" I feel from my older relatives. I do sometimes try and really overplay the whole italian thing, sort of a machismo if you will to fit in with them.
Funny how humans act to fit in with their families isn't it? Actually though, because i'm a techie and not a farmer or a tradesman i've managed to even further detatch myself from them.
Yes but because the USA has extridition treaties, we must allow italy to uphold the law on their citizens when they commit a crime either on, or from their own soil.
Until there is some sort of ammendment that states otherwise, a vote, whatever then this will be the policy in these post 911 times. Last time I checked, we have a ton of air bases over in Italy, not to mention it's not too far off from those 747 hijacking, world trade center destroying, cocksucking terrorist.
It's politics. Sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils to accomplish a task. In this case, I think it's in USA's best interest not to put up a stink about it. We need Italy for it's intellegence, location, and natural resources as much as they need us for our technology.
Think about the Church/State goverment they have over there with the vatican for a second. How many people in the world are catholic? How many would tell their priest during confession something that might help catch osama bin laden? Maybe they have some ancient book on alien technology that we use today, who knows? Point the vatican is a HUGE intellegence gathering device.
There's a big picture in all this, and that's if it really makes you unhappy, go out, lobby, change stuff. Me for the most part, knowing what an assett Italian air bases are to USA soil, and my catholic religion, I can really care less about this guy.
Speaking of which, which is politically correct? Your view? Mine? Italies? It's all a matter of perspective really. Each one is entitled to that. This was an italian citizen, not an american where you ARE entitled to our privelidges and freedoms. He tried to circumvent the law to break it in his own country, what makes you think he's going to have a better respect for our laws here?
Blam +5x2 today w00t w00t
--toq
Hey, like I said.
#1 The Italian police action was probably legal in italy.
#2 By living in italy, the guy automatically is under italian law and his rights are dicted by that goverment
#3 I wouldn't put it past him to have given his consent to access the system in liu of a lighter sentance
#4 How is this disrespecting any american law?
#5 If american hosting companies don't like these coutries laws, why don't they turn away their business?
chmod -smartass Johnny 290 :P
Yeah you were so funny I had shits and giggles
Eh?
Still though it doesn't matter WHERE it's hosted. What matters is who created and uploaded the content from where, and what local laws they've broken.
In italy there is hardly and seperation between church and state, the vatican pretty much runs it all. The catholic religion is a very HUGE part of italian culture and to the italians desecrating the virgin is a VERY serious thing. I know this because my family is VERY italian and despite living in the USA we still hold strong to our belief system.
The thing is, the guy was in his own country when he did the offense. He probably TOLD them his password for a lighter sentance. How is that unauthorized access? It isn't! Shit if I was facing 10 years in the slag vs. 1 year for giving up my password, well then here! **********
You really gotta understand the culture, we have extridition treaties with italy for a reason. Nothing was extridited though, it italy it's probably leagle to search someones computer. There might be a law giving the state the right to do it, we just don't know because we don't live there. If there is a law like that, it's just a part of living in italy, and being a citizen.
If american hosting companies are afraid of foriegn goverments doing this to their citizens then they shouldn't do business with them. Simple as that. They should have a big ass bold lettering in their TOS like this..
We do not provide service to accounts from Italy, Cuba, China, Russia because we do not agree with thier censorship laws"
Thing is, we're so strapped for cash right now, I think many companies are more willing to make a buck than to fight for some censorship issue.
my take on it.
Deal with it.