e.Digital Promises Another iPod Competitor

joefefifo writes: "e.Digital has a press release describing their Odyssey 1000, supposedly due out in the fall. Some stats: Looks like an iPod, uses USB 2.0., has a 20GB capacity, built-in mic for voice recording and navigation, FM Tuner with 12 presets, Mac & PC compatible, iTunes compatible, runs e.Digital's MicroOS 2.0. Except for the choice of OS, looks pretty sweet. Any chance someone will get it to run Linux instead?" Like Toshiba's little player, it uses USB 2 rather than Firewire.

Comments

PC Compatible? Sweet!

[empee]

PC Compatible? Finally... where can I sign up?

Re:PC Compatible? Sweet!

[galaxy300]

I believe that Apple announced a PC compatable version of the ipod last week at MacWorld.

tivo-like capacity on it?

[Anonymous Coward]

if there's an FM tuner and a HD, it should be able to do tivo-like replays of radio shows you like.

Re:tivo-like capacity on it?

[MicroBerto]

Anyone who needs to listen to Howard Stern more than once a day (4 hours?!) needs some help...

Re:tivo-like capacity on it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Take the speaker from the headphones, and place it over the mic. That is if both of them work at the same time.

Slashdotted

[Cardhore]

(SAN DIEGO, CA - July 22, 2002) - It's sleek, it's powerful, it has the capacity to download 4,800 songs, or 400 CDs, at lightning-quick speed -- and it's PC and Mac compatible. e.Digital Corporation (OTC: EDIG) today announced its new Odyssey 1000TM digital jukebox and data storage device, its premier digital audio player. Powered by e.Digital's MicroOS 2.0, the Odyssey 1000 combines the best of e.Digital's digital audio technology into one stellar, feature-packed unit.

Jim Collier, President and COO of e.Digital said, "The Odyssey 1000 sets the standard by which all other portable entertainment products will now be judged. It is the result of our first joint project with our strategic development partner Digitalway. It combines an elegant, world class industrial design from Digitalway's award-winning engineering team with e.Digital's state-of-the-art, patented audio technology. There is nothing else available that matches its elegant looks, full range of features, and cutting-edge Drag 'n RipTM technology."

The Odyssey 1000, which will be available to consumers this fall, boasts superb sound quality and outstanding battery life, with a minimum of 13 hours of playback time. The feature-rich Odyssey 1000 has a 20 Gigabyte hard drive for optimum MP3 and Windows MediaTM WMA playback and doubles as a data storage unit for movies, spreadsheets, e- books, and more. Its stainless steel, sleek industrial design only enhances the aesthetic appeal of this digital audio powerhouse, which is small enough to fit in a pocket or purse.

The Odyssey 1000's high-speed USB 2.0 connection and remarkable ease of use make downloading and transferring music a breeze. With the Odyssey 1000's USB 2.0 connection, users can transfer an entire CD to their player in about 5 seconds. And e.Digital's Drag 'n Rip technology enables users to transfer music in one easy step simply by dragging tracks directly from a CD directory onto their player's hard drive. Drag 'n Rip optionally enables users to create a mirror library of music on their computer. The Odyssey 1000 also is compatible with Mac iTunes TM.

Another outstanding feature is the Odyssey 1000's voice navigation capabilities. The Odyssey 1000 uses e.Digital's VoiceNavTM user interface based on Lucent's speech recognition technology so users can navigate through their libraries of music simply by the power of their own voice. It also has an easy-to-use scroll wheel for effortless manual navigation. In addition, the Odyssey 1000 is a voice recorder that comes with a built-in microphone for hours of voice recording on its massive hard drive.

Collier added that, "This is a product that will have broad appeal to both Mac and PC users. It provides them with a full suite of features and advanced technology not currently available from any other product on the market. It also will be subscription enabled and fully compatible with our subscription content partners, soon to be announced. Its intuitive user interface and ease of navigation will appeal to all age groups. Anyone who likes music and books will love the Odyssey 1000."

Furthermore, the Odyssey 1000 comes with music preloaded by e.Digital's Broadband Entertainment Business Unit so users can immediately start enjoying music on their player. The Odyssey 1000 also has an FM tuner with 12 available station presets and 16 MB DRAM buffering for robust anti-skip protection and increased battery life.

The standard Odyssey 1000 package will include e.Digital Music ExplorerTM 2.0 software for PC (featuring Drag 'n Rip technology), carrying case with belt clip, an installation CD and manual, stereo earphones, USB 2.0 cable with standard and mini connectors, a universal DC adaptor/battery charger, and RCA audio cable for home stereo connection.

The Odyssey 1000's Drag 'n Rip technology, voice navigation capabilities, and preloaded content make it absolutely unparalleled among its peers. The much-anticipated Odyssey 1000 will be available to consumers this fall.

The versatile Odyssey 1000 includes the following features:



Features:

• 20 Gigabyte hard drive
• 13-hour minimum playback time
• Mac and PC compatible
• Mac iTunesTM compatible
• Drag 'n Rip copies music directly from CD to player
• USB 2.0 high-speed download
• Typical USB 2.0 transfer rate: 8 Megabytes per second (MBps)
• Voice navigation using VoiceNavTM technology
• Built-in microphone for voice recording
• MP3, Windows MediaTM (WMA), and WAV file playback
• FM tuner with 12 preset stations
• 16 MB DRAM anti-shock buffering
• Five-band equalizer with 5 presets and 1 user-defined setting
• Approximate dimensions: 2.87" x 4.3" x 0.9" (73mm x 110mm x 22.8mm)
• Blue backlit electro-luminescent LCD with adjustable settings
• Internal real-time clock
• WMA Digital Rights Management (DRM) support
• Combined audio out and remote control jack
• Multi-language support via firmware upgrade
• Playlist creation through user interface
• Firmware upgradeable
• Lithium-Polymer rechargeable battery charges in 4 hours

About e.Digital
e.Digital Corporation offers an engineering partnership for the world's leading electronics companies to link portable digital devices to PCs and the Internet. e.Digital develops and markets to consumer electronics manufacturers complete end-to-end solutions for delivery and management of open and secure digital media with a focus on music, voice and video players/recorders, and automotive infotainment and telematics systems. Other applications for e.Digital's technology include portable digital music players and voice recorders; desktop, laptop, and handheld computers; PC peripherals; cellular phone peripherals; e-books; video games; digital cameras; and digital video recorders. Engineering services range from the licensing of e.Digital's patented MicroOSTM file management system to custom software and hardware development, industrial design, and manufacturing services. For more information on the company, please visit www.edig.com.To shop in the e.Digital online store, please visit www.edigital-store.com.

# # #

Safe Harbor statement under the Private Securities Litigation Reform of 1995: This document contains forward-looking statements relating to future performance, technology and product development that may affect future results and the future viability of the company. Actual results could be affected or differ materially from those projected in the forward- looking statements as a result of risks and uncertainties, including future products and results, technological shifts, potential technical difficulties that could delay new products, competition, general economic factors, and conditions in the markets in which the company operates, pricing pressures, the uncertainty of market acceptance of new products and services by OEM's and end-user customers, and other factors identified and discussed in the Company's most recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. These forward-looking statements are based on information and management's expectations as of the date hereof. Future results may differ materially from the Company's current expectations.


Note: e.Digital, Music Explorer, MicroOS 2.0, Drag 'n Rip, VoiceNav and Odyssey are registered trademarks of e.Digital Corporation. Windows Media is a trademark of Microsoft Corporation. All other company, product, and service names are the property of their respective owners.


CONTACT:

Media Contact: Lisa Stevens, (858) 679-1504, PR@edig.com
Investor Relations Contact: Robert Putnam, (858) 679-1504, robert@edig.com

Re:Slashdotted

[DarkZero]

(Score:2, Redundant)

Some of these moderators are just insane. Redundancy is the entire POINT of a post like this. It's a backup copy of the website because the website is down. Its redundancy keeps the comments from becoming an endless flood of "Um, I can't see it" and "The site's /.ed" posts.

Redundancy is not a bad thing when you can't see the original text that the post is repeating.

Re:Slashdotted

[Anonymous Coward]

The point is that at the time the previously mentioned comment was posted (and for a considerable period of time afterwards, ie over an hour) the article was not slashdottedd and therefore the post was unneeded.

Is it real?

[Anonymous Coward]

The pictures looks like a photoshop'ed ipod

Sounds good.

[Rivard]

Gotta hate people ripping off Apple design just to rip off Apple design.

But, on the other hand, if the new ideas like up to muster, this sounds extremely useful. Listening to the radio, replacing--perhaps--the mini tape recorder, and hopefully it can be sold for cheaper.

Re:Sounds good.

[Anonymous Coward]

can you steve jobs worshippers just get a F*KIN LIFE? why is every HDD-based MP3 player "an ipod knockoff?" excuse me, these things were on the market for at least 2 years before apple "invented it." about the only innovations in the ipod are 1) firewire 2) 1.5" form factor drive. gee, that's really hard to imagine...putting those things into an mp3 player...maybe apple should try to patent it!

maybe you think the archos is ugly & heavy but i'm keeping it until something that doesn't use that horribly ugly mac font hits the streets at ta reasonable price. unlike your crappy ipod, it doesn't have any DRM sh*t and lets me copy the stuff OUT of the device as well as put it IN.

Get over it

[G-funk]

Except for the choice of OS, looks pretty sweet

Huh? Except for the choice of OS? This goes too far. Who gives a crap if they don't use linux? It's not like it runs windows, it runs some OS they wrote, that does what it needs to do - play mp3s. If it works, and it does what it's supposed to do, good on them.

Now I'm all for somebody getting one and putting linux on it, but that's "hey a cool hack" value, not something that needs to be done to make the product worthwhile.

Re:Get over it

[Cardhore]

Yeah, I agree. It's not like F-22s or anything really care what operating system they're running, so why should a portable music player?

Re:Get over it

[Anonymous Coward]

While I would generally agree with you, if we were talking about any other "appliance" type device, using an open source OS (like linux) is essential for a geek-friendly portable digital music player. Otherwise, support for formats other than mp3 will be slow in coming at best (for say, ogg or aac) or likely nonexesitant (like for mpc, which is the format audiogeeks like myself really want their portable players to use). Also, all those quirky little things like gap-free playback, varying seek behavior, things that nobody but a geek with access to the source could be trusted to do right... its just gotta be linux... not speaking religiously, just purely practically. The featureset we need just wont happen otherwise.

Re:Get over it

[Arandir]

I'm with you. I don't care what OS it runs. All I care is that I can operate it from the OS I run on my desktop.

Re:Get over it

[deek]

• Huh? Except for the choice of OS? This goes too far. Who gives a crap if they don't use linux?

Ummmm .... I care! If it was running Linux, then I can get this thing to do MUCH more than what it was intended for.

For example, I could possibly whack on a USB network adaptor, and use it as a portable samba storage unit. I could carry this around and download photos from a digital camera. I wouldn't have to buy any more memory storage for the camera (especially the exhorbatent Memory Stick! Are you listening Sony?!). I could not be limited to only mp3 and wmv files, but I could play ANY audio format that Linux can natively play.

Please, don't be jaded by the continual effort people make to get Linux running on every device. Getting Linux to run on this e.Digital device would be DAMN BRILLIANT!

Re:Get over it

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummmm .... I care! If it was running Linux, then I can get this thing to do MUCH more than what it was intended for.

And why would the company care about this? I think what he's getting at is many people are getting a little sick and tired of Linux whiners complaining everytime a cool new device comes out that just happens to not run Linux. WHO THE FUCK CARES except a bunch of stupid idiotic linux dorks like you? Did you port Linux to your toaster yet fuckwad? How DARE you toast bread using a proprietary operating environment.

Re:Get over it

[nsideops]

I would love it to be on linux because I could look forward to all kinds of improvements/hacks/alterations the community would bring. Linux is a very good way to keep a products life span stay up more than it might have to begin with. Some people will buy one because of what it does, others will buy it for what they might be able to do with it.

Re:Get over it

[Oculus Habent]

I understand your desire to have aa portable whatever-you-want, but sometimes you should accept that a device isn't designed/meant to be used in this fashion.

The screen isn't large enough for output not specifically formatted for it. The buttons aren't sufficient for inputting data, unless you want to scroll through the alphabet console-game style. Sure, it can be done, but is it worth it?

My iPod is a FireWire hard drive. It doesn't plug into a network, but you'd need a computer to make it worth anything as a network storage device. If you plug the drive into a computer, the computer can be the samba server much more easily.

Sure, you could play more types of audio formats, but what are you going to listen to? MIDIs? VQFs? OGG, I suppose. There are formats that you could listen to, but is it currently worth it? And, notably, Linux doesn't support any audio format "natively".

I'm not completely familiar with the USB standard, but I don't think you could get the device to talk properly to another peripheral. One big part of USB (not a FireWire limitation) is that peripherals must communicate through the host computer, and not directly.

I don't deny the work people put forth to install Linux on everything isn't amazing, and a testament to the perserverance and ingenuity of people, but, as with case mods, there's a "gee, look what I did" period, and then it's gone, becuase the functoin isn't worth the hassle.

Re:Get over it

[Zeinfeld]

Huh? Except for the choice of OS? This goes too far. Who gives a crap if they don't use linux? It's not like it runs windows,

Actually since the device plays Microsoft .WMA files it probably does run a Microsoft embedded O/S.

But I really could not give a hoot whether it runs Linux or not, although it must be said that running Windows is a major plus when you want to tweak some Linux-bore droning on about how the fsck command in Linux is ten times better than anything Microsoft have got to offer in Windows XP and how he has it on good authority from a friend that Bill Gates is a gerbilling afficionado etc. etc.

Re:Get over it

[Anonymous Coward]

turdling

Re:Get over it

[Anonymous Coward]

probably huh.

That's good, I'm glad to hear you know what you're talking about. Because my rio is also running windows xp to play windows media files .. mmhmm

Re:Get over it

[deek]

• I understand your desire to have aa portable whatever-you-want, but sometimes you should accept that a device isn't designed/meant to be used in this fashion.

I most definitely do not agree with this attitude. Getting something to do what it wasn't designed to do, is a beautiful thing. It's also called a Hack. Hackers are people that never resign themselves to the fact that something wasn't designed to do it. They go out there and they MAKE it do what they want! That is incredibly awesome.

• The screen isn't large enough for output not specifically formatted for it. The buttons aren't sufficient for inputting data, unless you want to scroll through the alphabet console-game style. Sure, it can be done, but is it worth it?

If you make it act as a network device, you can telnet/ssh into it and essentially get keyboard and screen access that is perfectly sufficient, and is definitely worth it.

• My iPod is a FireWire hard drive. It doesn't plug into a network, but you'd need a computer to make it worth anything as a network storage device. If you plug the drive into a computer, the computer can be the samba server much more easily.

Sure, I can kind of see where you're coming. If you're only serving one computer, you might as well just plug the device directly into the computer.

This is the thing, though ... what if you want to serve more than one computer! This device can do it with Linux installed. It's a portable Samba server if you want it to be.

• I'm not completely familiar with the USB standard, but I don't think you could get the device to talk properly to another peripheral. One big part of USB (not a FireWire limitation) is that peripherals must communicate through the host computer, and not directly.

This device IS the computer! It has a CPU, memory, storage area, input and output functions ... it's got everything you need for a "computer". Therefore, with Linux installed, it can control the USB peripheral to do whatever you want.

• I don't deny the work people put forth to install Linux on everything isn't amazing, and a testament to the perserverance and ingenuity of people, but, as with case mods, there's a "gee, look what I did" period, and then it's gone, becuase the functoin isn't worth the hassle.

Getting Linux to run on this device is very useful, because it essentially gives you an intelligent portable device with a large disk capacity. It's useful in any situation where you need portable storage that can be hooked up to any medium (I've obviously used the computer network as one example ... but there's no need just to be limited to that).

Oh wow, I just thought of possibly hooking up a wireless LAN peripheral to this device, and using NetBEUI with Samba to provide instant filesharing to any machine in that wireless network. Now that is a very cool thing!

I wonder if Samba can be used with NetBEUI .... hmmmm ....

Re:Get over it

[jred]

Well, I'm going to assume you meant winXP like some AC, although IIRC, they have an embedded version. But they wouldn't necessarily need to run a version of Windows to play .wma, they just need to license the appropiate code to use it (codecs?).

Re:Get over it

[GoRK]

Contrary to popular belief, Microsoft will license and has written wma decoding libraries for embedded things other than windows such as DSP based hardware CODEC's - feed them a wma bitstream and they spit out audio.

Needless to say, there is no embedded windows in this thing. Using embedded windows (requiring beefy hardware compared to the probably 2 dsp's and a small microcontroller such an mp3 player would actually require) would do nothing except cut into the profit of the company making the player (licensing fees for the whole OS + the cost of the more expensive hardware to run it) and decrease things like battery life.

Re:Get over it

[Gossy]

If you look at the article:

"The feature-rich Odyssey 1000 has a 20 Gigabyte hard drive for optimum MP3 and Windows MediaTM WMA playback and doubles as a data storage unit for movies, spreadsheets, e- books, and more."

Now, you may not be able to interface with it as easily since it isn't running Linux, but you should be able to hack it. It's not locked down to transferring just audio files.

I want one. :)

Re:Get over it

[stapedium]

This device IS the computer! It has a CPU, memory, storage area, input and output functions ... it's got everything you need for a "computer". Therefore, with Linux installed, it can control the USB peripheral to do whatever you want.

what the parent was talking about is that the usb universe is divided into peripherals and hosts. this is not a software or driver issue it is a hardware issue. the usb controller chip on peripherals is not interchangable with those on your motherboard.

i only found this out when i was trying to figure out a way to use a USB microphone with my sony clie. no dice! it turns out that palms and clies all use peripheral controllers and thus cannont receive info from other peripherals without a host to act as intermediary. so basically not im trying to figure out how to finagle some samples of solder tail usb host controllers to hack together a little palm voice recrder.

Re:Get over it

[Oculus Habent]

As a side note, A FireWire Ethernet Transceiver already exists (preliminary documentation). If you were that interested in a Portable SAMBA server, you could get an iPod. ;)

Re:Get over it

[deek]

'kay, I understand now.

What a shame. Looks like USB is a slightly suckier interface than I originally thought. Looks like I'll have to follow Oculus Habent's suggestion and go with an IPod and a firewire ethernet transciever .... .... as soon as someone hacks the IPod to run Linux of course :)

Re:Get over it

[rutherford]

I thing especially Ogg Vorbis support is important. More and more music I have is in this format. So a MP3 only player would be useless for me. Perhaps it would help when more people ask e.Digital to add Ogg Virbis to Odyssey. You can send them mail here: http://www.edig.com/contact/index.html

Re:Get over it

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh moron, it says "runs e.Digital's MicroOS 2.0".

wow

[Anonymous Coward]

looks just like an iPod at first glance. oh wait..at second glance i see it looks like a cheaply made Korean iPod knockoff. woohoo! because i'm a cheap-ass slashdot reader i'll want one.

Digital???

[Pig Hogger]

Digital??? You mean Compaq???? Er... you mean Hewlett-Packard???

Yeesh

[Verizon Guy]

Except for the choice of OS, looks pretty sweet. Any chance someone will get it to run Linux instead?

Jeez, concentrate on more important things running linux, like a toaster, for example.

Not *truly* Mac compatible

[CoolQ]

Seriously, this is no better than any other USB MP3 player for us Mac users. Remember, no Apple machines come with USB 2.0, although you can add a USB 2.0 card to PowerMacs. Therefore, you will still get horrible transfer speeds. Why can't other manufacturers just use FireWire?

Re:Not *truly* Mac compatible

[Moridineas]

Because the vast majority of PC's (referring to x86 consumer computer) don't come with FireWire yet.

Re:Not *truly* Mac compatible

[mlk]

A FireWire card is only £20 ($30), so no different to a USB 2 card.

Re:Not *truly* Mac compatible

[jafac]

For pete's sake, a firewire card is like $40. This is nothing more than another pathetic (and probably intel-backed) attempt to promote the ubiquity of USB and the elimination of the obviously superior firewire.

Re:Not *truly* Mac compatible

[Anonymous Coward]

Or... perhaps they think it would help to sell them as people would be more likely to use USB over firewire, I have 3 things hooked up to USB right now, how many firewire compatible things to I EVEN OWN... none. If I could choose which to have in a computer, firewire, or USB 2.0, i'd choose usb 2.0 since I already have things that will work with it.

Re:Not *truly* Mac compatible

[Oculus Habent]

Most PCs don't have USB 2.0 yet. FireWire is becoming more available. DEll now offers a video editing studio with FireWire card for $50. It is already being used in a number of peripherals (many USB 2.0 devices also have FireWire interfaces).

FireWire also allows devices to communicate directly, reducing system overhead.

It also allows more power than the USB specification.

--
Just my thoughts.

Re:Not *truly* Mac compatible

[Hadlock]

actually i checked @ compUSA the other day... $29 for a 3 port firewire card...probably one controller for 3 ports, but plenty of bandwith for today's consumer.

Re:Not *truly* Mac compatible

[dwater]

> Intel backed

I beleive this, since, IINM, USB requires more of the CPU than Firewire and so require the user to have a better and, therefore, more expensive (?) CPU.

Max.

Re:Not *truly* Mac compatible

[Moridineas]

The point is that most users don't want to install add-ons, and won't. In addition, USB2 is backwards compatible with USB, no?

DRM support

[NiceGeek]

I don't care how cool it looks...I'm not supporting any device that has DRM support.

Re:DRM support

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell is DRM?
Dynamic Resourse Management?

Re:DRM support

[Technician]

Digital Rights Management (DRM) support

It means when you buy a WMA music file off the net, and download it to your player, you can't back it up on your friends computer. It is not a file format that can be copied and played on something else. That's how they manage the copywrite owners content. Stuff with DRM downloaded into the player will not upload back out. Even though they brag about using it to store and transfer files, that does not apply to DRM stuff.

Heard it before

[AIXadmin]

When the iMac came out, this same thing happened. With in six months there were rip offs from such notables as Dell, Gateway, and IBM. None of nock-offs have survived. The iMac is still around and selling well.

Apple just seems to have some kind of magic when it comes to product design. That few others if any have.

Re:Heard it before

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be because Apple sued the sh*t out of Dell, Gateway and IBM for ripping it off.

Re:Heard it before

[deviator]

It's not magic - it's the right mix of very smart people combined with management who lets those designers (really artists) realize their vision with few restrictions.

...ever notice how Apple isn't constantly concerned with "make it as cheap as possible?" Sometimes it seems they're the ONLY company who won't compromise ideals in favor of cost; that's why their designs are so successful.

Re:Heard it before

[krypto246]

Their "design" magic is putting all the most expensive features that are avalible into whatever product they make. Yes, that results in higher quality products, it also results in decades of mediocre sales for Apple. I love their designs as much as the next person, but choosing cheaper features isn't sacrificing ideals, its good business.

Re:Heard it before

[shepd]

>Sometimes it seems they're the ONLY company who won't compromise ideals in favor of cost; that's why their designs are so successful.

You do know why they are the ONLY company who won't "compromise ideals" in favor of cost?

Because they have their proprietary hardware locked up tighter than a new game console. Once you're stuck with a mac, you don't have a lot of choice if you want to stay mac, so you buy one of their overpriced designs and voila! apple remains successful. The only time apple opened their designs up enough to let other companies make them they got eaten alive so they closed it right up again, probably for good this time.

This strategy is a very good way of making a lot of money from a relatively small amount of actual customers. Another company that uses this exact same strategy is Microsoft.

Why anyone would like to buy a closed Open-Source OS on welded shut hardware beats the heck out of me...

Maybe its just me, but I think it totally SUCKS that cards from a Mac II won't work on any modern Mac at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure cards mean for PowerPC Macs won't work on modern Macs either (anyone care to let me know on that one?) That type of design choice blows chunks. At least I can find (with a little trouble) a PC motherboard that supports an ISA slot knowing I can add an extra serial port (for example) for just $2.

PC design gives you choice, Mac design bonds you in chains and crazy glue (mostly minus the glue).

Just my 2 cents on Macs...

Re:Heard it before

[Pope]

Most of your complaints vis a vis a Mac II vs. a modern day Mac are pretty unfounded. Nubus vs. PCI or AGP? No friggin contest!

And to top it off, today's Macs ARE PowerPC, dumbass.

Why anyone would like to buy a closed Open-Source OS on welded shut hardware beats the heck out of me

How about because not everyone who uses a computer is a geek? If you need a serial port, you can get an adapter.

Re:Heard it before

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe its just me, but I think it totally SUCKS that cards from a Mac II won't work on any modern Mac at all.

wahh wahh. the cards from my c-64 won't fit in my P4. dumbass.

Re:Heard it before

[Anonymous Coward]

wahh wahh. i have no account so i don't get a decent response. lamer.

Re:Heard it before

[shepd]

>Nubus vs. PCI or AGP? No friggin contest!

Uhh, I didn't say ISA or Nubus or whateverthehellyoucallit is _better_, just that anyone with legacy cards gets screwed with a Mac, whereas with a PC, anyone with a little clue can save a couple of bucks on a soundcard, printer port, serial port, or even a SCSI board for a scanner if they get a Mobo with an ISA slot.

A lack of backward compatibility, especially when a proper design means it should cost almost nothing to implement, is a flaw, not a feature.

>And to top it off, today's Macs ARE PowerPC, dumbass.

Well, fuck you very much. I'm obviously no Mac afficando, but I do know I have better manners than you.

>If you need a serial port, you can get an adapter.

Which won't work for my applications. And won't work with (albeit outdated) older software.

Not to mention that the older busses, such as ISA are just so much simpler to hack with.

>How about because not everyone who uses a computer is a geek?

Geeks reccomend computers to non-geeks. Guess which type of computer wins? Not to mention that cool hardware is designed by geeks who would just rather work with a system that works with them, rather than against them.

Well, you really don't need to guess. By all reason, if you were to cut out artists from the equation, Mac is dead.

Oh, and companies like intel don't lie about the performance of their computers (well, in the case of PCs, CPUs) whereas Apple prefers to do the next best thing to lying -- finding one or two applications that are faster on your computer (mostly because they were designed on your computer) and say your entire computer is the best on earth.

Blech. Keep those overgrown (and damn HOT) plastic tissue boxes away from me. Give me a computer with quality RF sheilding and a proper heat extraction system anyday. Not to mention I prefer to buy a decent monitor and speakers for even my cheap systems. And not to mention that a majority of non-geeks I know like to have a good monitor and speakers. I thought we gave up on built in monitors during the TRS-80 and PET days?

[And yes, I know you can buy Macs without built in monitors, I just think its insane that it often costs more to get one without a monitor than with!]

Re:Heard it before

[ndpatel]

Uhh, I didn't say ISA or Nubus or whateverthehellyoucallit is _better_, just that anyone with legacy cards gets screwed with a Mac, whereas with a PC, anyone with a little clue can save a couple of bucks on a soundcard, printer port, serial port, or even a SCSI board for a scanner if they get a Mobo with an ISA slot.

dude, the only things that came on nubus cards were shitty video cards and like fast-1 scsi cards. there was no need to continue to maintain compatibility with a closed, dead end technology when PCI was open and vastly superior. which, i believe, negates your entire arguement vis a vis closed v. open tech.

Not to mention I prefer to buy a decent monitor and speakers for even my cheap systems. And not to mention that a majority of non-geeks I know like to have a good monitor and speakers. I thought we gave up on built in monitors during the TRS-80 and PET days?

i don't know, apple is famous for making the best lcd's on the market, and a flat crt like on the emac is pretty hard to fuck up, so what're you driving at with this one?

Geeks reccomend computers to non-geeks. Guess which type of computer wins? Not to mention that cool hardware is designed by geeks who would just rather work with a system that works with them, rather than against them.

so..who's the bigger geek, the guy who staples parts together at the dell factory, or the designers at apple?

why do some people simply refuse to make sense?

Re:Heard it before

[NickV]

Wow... time to stop the troll that probably doesn't realize he is a troll... ok, here we goooo!

Uhh, I didn't say ISA or Nubus or whateverthehellyoucallit is _better_, just that anyone with legacy cards gets screwed with a Mac, whereas with a PC, anyone with a little clue can save a couple of bucks on a soundcard, printer port, serial port, or even a SCSI board for a scanner if they get a Mobo with an ISA slot.

Cough Cough... so basically you're pissed off that the mac doesn't allow you to use your old 2 Meg Matrox Millennium card and Adlib soundcard the way a PC does right?
First of all, all macs nowadays come with PCI on the motherboard. I'm sorry, ISA is a dead technology and one I don't really think we should be clinging on to. Extending your logic, do you think modern PCs should have support for Cassette data tapes? The PowerMac uses IDE and PCI and AGP, what more do you want? Commodore 64 Expansion Card support?

>And to top it off, today's Macs ARE PowerPC, dumbass.

Well, fuck you very much. I'm obviously no Mac afficando, but I do know I have better manners than you.

Ok you're right, he was obnoxious but he did effectively shut you up and immediately destroy a significant part of your argument.

>If you need a serial port, you can get an adapter.

Which won't work for my applications. And won't work with (albeit outdated) older software.

Not to mention that the older busses, such as ISA are just so much simpler to hack with.

First of all to part one, the adapter works natively in all applications on Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X. Sure it doesn't work on your 1986 copy of Excel 1.0, but once again, I don't think that's much of an issue. It works with ALL mac software made post 1996. And the ISA comment, I won't even go there it's so ignorant.

Well, you really don't need to guess. By all reason, if you were to cut out artists from the equation, Mac is dead.

You mean the HUGE digital video market? You mean the HUGE post production market? Ever heard of Final Cut Pro and how it's completely eroding AVID's market share (do you even know who Avid is?) Not to mention the XServes that are flying off the shelf because they are incredible 1U servers, which you obviously haven't even read the tech specs of (but nah, rhetoric always beats facts right?)

Oh, and companies like intel don't lie about the performance of their computers (well, in the case of PCs, CPUs) whereas Apple prefers to do the next best thing to lying -- finding one or two applications that are faster on your computer (mostly because they were designed on your computer) and say your entire computer is the best on earth.

Right, and companies like ATI fix benchmarks so when they see "quake2.exe" they perform 20% faster. Frankly those two apps are used (Final Cut and Photoshop) because that's what a HUGE mac audience looks for. No offense, but unless you want to play Unreal Tournament 2003 at 1600x1280 at 200fps (which is what ALL pc benchmarks perform to) you don't really need to care about benchmarks as much as how well the machine works. (GASP, what a concept!)

Blech. Keep those overgrown (and damn HOT) plastic tissue boxes away from me. Give me a computer with quality RF sheilding and a proper heat extraction system anyday. Not to mention I prefer to buy a decent monitor and speakers for even my cheap systems. And not to mention that a majority of non-geeks I know like to have a good monitor and speakers. I thought we gave up on built in monitors during the TRS-80 and PET days?

Ok, two points that highlight your innane cluelessness. Ever compared the heat disappation of a PowerPC to an intel or AMD processor? Probably not. Ever seen a completely fanless fully loaded AMD Athlon? You know the Athlon melts in 7 seconds without a heatsink right? (I did that once by accident, but got it replaced) There is one apple machine with a fan right now, and it's the PowerMac. They're beautiful, QUIET, machines. Have you ever even SEEN an apple machine (or at least heard one?)
The other point, have you ever seen the iMac screen or any Apple flat screen? I mean, these screens are used by major print houses because of their color accuracy. I stare at one of those "AMAZING SGI wide screen" monitors all day at work, one of those "AMAZING DELL 17" digital" flat screens at college and NONE match the viewing angle, color accuracy and refresh of the apple monitors. Read any review and you'll see the exact same thing.

And yes, I know you can buy Macs without built in monitors, I just think its insane that it often costs more to get one without a monitor than with!]

Wow, you didn't have on REAL point in the whole post. You can get a lowend powermac (without monitor) for less than the iMac.
How about doing some actual RESEARCH before posting? Maybe, just go to the apple site at least once instead of feeding off of your preconcieved blatantly biased notions?

Re:Heard it before

[owlicks58]

As we speak I'm using my original Bondi Blue iMac, the computer that you weren't supposed to be able to upgrade. Too bad the only original thing on this is the motherboard and monitor! I have an upgraded processor, more RAM than it was orignally intended, upgraded Hard Disk, upgraded 3-D card, and a firewire port add on! People who whine about macs not being upgradable are fools who don't know anything about Macs

Re:Heard it before

[Moofie]

I for one am glad that Apple has returned to profitability by raising the bar, design wise, instead of just shitting out the cheapest products they can swindle somebody into buying.

It might not be "good business", but it makes for the best damn computers on the market.

Re:Heard it before

[Anonymous Coward]

There is one apple machine with a fan right now, and it's the PowerMac.

The LCD iMacs, iBooks, and PowerBook G4s all have fans, though the fan speed is probably temperature-controlled.

Re:Heard it before

[Anonymous Coward]

NickV already slammed most of your arguments, but he missed a few that I'll cover here.

Blech. Keep those overgrown (and damn HOT) plastic tissue boxes away from me. Give me a computer with quality RF sheilding and a proper heat extraction system anyday.

Apple's machines have better RF shielding than most PCs. With a PC, you get a whole bunch of metal plates that slide together, and that's it. Apple's systems (if you ever bothered to open one up, which it's clear you hadn't) have mesh padding in the case joints and seams, and screen shields around the externally-accessible drives. When you put in a PCI card, it snugs up against at least three pieces of metal mesh pad. I've only seen one other computer vendor to ever put the mesh pads in their systems - Compaq - And they only put them in their servers!

Not to mention I prefer to buy a decent monitor and speakers for even my cheap systems. And not to mention that a majority of non-geeks I know like to have a good monitor and speakers. I thought we gave up on built in monitors during the TRS-80 and PET days?

I won't address the speaker issue, because all I can do is to speak firsthand in saying that they work absolutely fine. They're way better than Labtecs.

As for the monitors - If Apple's monitors suck so badly, why is it that so many PC users are drooling over them, or begging for one? Have you actually *seen* an Apple Cinema Display? At my office, all but two of our Macs have Cinema/Studio displays. They're better than any PC screen I've displayed, and product reviewers agree. I'm talking about reviewers such as PC Computing, MaximumPC, Computer Shopper, and many others.

Oh...and one other thing...

Geeks reccomend computers to non-geeks. Guess which type of computer wins? Not to mention that cool hardware is designed by geeks who would just rather work with a system that works with them, rather than against them.

Geeks also tell their users to defrag their hard disks once a month, not to open e-mail attachments, not to download files from a website they don't trust, and to uninstall programs instead of deleting them.

Now then. Do you *really* think that non-geeks listen to geeks?

Re:Heard it before

[firewort]

So, you can put MicroChannel cards in your PC?

Designs advance.

You can't take old hard drives and put them in a new machine, and finding ISA on a P4 / newest AMD-compatible board is getting harder as well.

The slots in Mac SE/30, LC series, Color Classic, and others were all compatible- and that series spanned several years.

The slots in some very early powerPC powermacs were called NuBus, and that slot was also present in some of the 68k architecture. Equate this slot to MicroChannel.

For several years now, Apple's used PCI.

Up until 1998, Apple used SCSI and Serial. Post-1998, it's IDE, USB, and FireWire.

I can run the open-source Darwin, the mostly-open-source OS X, or I can run a Free Software OS if I choose.

Re:Heard it before

[JudgeFurious]

I think you are being overly pessimistic about the platform personally. I "grew up" in the computer sense with a serious bias against any computer I didn't put together myself. I am well aware of the massive advantages to being able to buy a pile of parts and make a computer out of it. The flexibility is astounding and your path to upgrading is admittedly unequaled. You can trod along one part at a time and keep pace with what's new at your own pace. It's sweet and it beats any offering from HPaq, Dell, or anyone else selling pre-built machines including Apple.

I recently ditched the PC platform completely for a new PowerMac after spending some time with an older Beige G3 which I was easily able to upgrade nearly to the extent that I used to upgrade my clone boxes. On that Beige G3 I was able to add a faster processor (from 233 to 500Mhz), some commodity RAM to bring it up to 368MB, a better video card, a CD-Burner, and an IDE hard drive. It now runs OSX very quickly and it makes a great box for Office apps and a few games. Granted even with the video card upgrade it's not up to some of the heavier titles but it runs most of what I want to do without a hitch.

Granted I'm not going to be able to go out and replace the motherboard with a new one but I challenge anyone outside of a "true" clone owner to do the same thing. When you get that replacement board from Dell that lets you upgrade your old Dimension Pentium 200 to a P4 2.5Ghz let me know. On the other hand the board might be in there forever but I can get a G4 processor that will go on it if I so choose. You won't be able to find a Dell from 1997 that you can similarly upgrade to a Pentium II, III or 4.

The point is that yes, it is less upgradable than your average home built PC but it's far more upgradable than any commercial offering.

I bought my new PowerMac G4 2x1Gig with that in mind and so I agreed to trade some of my ability to upgrade the machine for what I have found to be a stable and still pretty darned flexible platform. When the time comes I'll be adding the better video card and faster hard drives, RAM, and faster processor. Yeah they'll cost a little more than if I was buying for a PC but they will be there. In the meantime I'll be enjoying stability that easily exceeds anything from Microsoft, a UI that makes the desktop offerings for Linux seem pitiful, and getting some work done which is why I have a computer in the first place.

It hardly seems to be "welded shut hardware" from where I'm sitting.

Re:Heard it before

[Anonymous Coward]

That's right - that's why they have 4% of the market!

Talk about greatly insane!!!

PS: Speaking of "cheaply as possible," check out the e-Mac... and what about that horrendously flimsy iMac keyboard? Oh, sorry, didn't mean to bother you with facts... keep reading those marketing brochures!

Previous e.digital MP3 player no good

[mstra]

I got a Treo 10 several months ago (early in 2002), and the thing was truly no good.

Software never was able to consistently connect to the device, it's a TON heavier than my iPod, and I swear, the thing RATTLES.

I'll stick with my iPod, thanks.

m.

Archos Jukebox

[chaidawg]

Can anyone explain to me why people think there are no options for a PC based portable MP3 player? I have had the 20g Archos Jukebox for five months now and I couldn't be happier with it. Sure it only uses USB 1, but how often do you need to fill 20 gigs?

I put my 5 gigs of music on it overnight when I first bought it and spend a couple of minutes each week putting on my new music. All of that with 2 sets of rechargable 6 hour life batteris for $300. I will admit that the UI is not as pretty as on the iPod but for the price and size difference, I don't care.

If you want to take a look at one go to archos.com

Re:Archos Jukebox

[Jeffrey Baker]

It is huge, heavy, and doesn't run as long on the batteries as an ipod. Also ugly.

Re:Archos Jukebox

[Kevinv]

I refill the 10GB on my iPod weekly. I'm at about 26 GB of MP3s (with still more cd's to convert yet) and it's easier to just delete everything on the iPod and upload whatever set of playlists i'm in the mood for.

No way would i go with a USB 1 device for over 250MB.

Re:Archos Jukebox

[chaidawg]

I agree that for you the archos would be no good. But how many people have that much music. Even at a sample rate of 320 that's what? Over 4000 songs. I am a recent graduate and even at school with the unlimeted bandwidth(ish) And I can only think of 1 person who had close to that many. Added to that that if you download your music (128 KB) you would have close to 10 thousand songs.

Re:Archos Jukebox

[MicroBerto]

I just bought a 10gb Archos Jukebox on E-Bay for a decent price... I'm just a bit worried about the battery life, but this should be perfect for working out. No more listening to CNN in the corporate weightroom!

Re:Archos Jukebox

[romi]

Also, there is a version of the Archos that does have USB 2.0 and encoding (check their website). A friend brought this along on our cross-country roadtrip and it worked fine, really convenient. I'd still go for an iPod if I could afford the price premium (actually the prices have dropped now...) but it's a nice little unit and makes most of the debate here over USB 1.0 moot.

Re:Archos Jukebox

[Kevinv]

192 Kbps. Roughly 4700 tracks, all from CDs I own (some of my classical CD's are like 5 tracks on an hour CD). Not quite done converting all I own yet. I don't download too much at the moment.

Yes, I am a CD buying junkie. One of those people the RIAA refuses to believe exists.

When will somebody manufacture

[t0qer]

Just a simple box that I can plug my OWN hard drives into?

All I want, and please hear me out, is a pretty plastic box big enough to fit a laptop drive. Put a rechargable lithium ion battery in it. Some sort of LCD screen, Alphanumeric, TFT display, I don't care.

Keep the OS in a rom so I don't have to worry about storing it on the hard drive. Make sure there is enough OS to format the drive fat32.

And I want all this for about $100 bucks. I think that's fair. Why do I need to buy another laptop drive when I got so many sitting around?

Re:When will somebody manufacture

[The Dobber]

Its called a PJB100 (on of Compaqs science projects)

www.mp3factorydirect.com

Re:When will somebody manufacture

[MicroBerto]

First off, these come with a hard drive. Second off, he said $100, not $400. I think his product request is reasonable though

Re:When will somebody manufacture

[Catbeller]

Man, how many ebooks could I load into that thing?

Bigger and better screen would be good. But it's almost there. Thousands and thousands of books... no more back strain when I move!

Re:When will somebody manufacture

[The Dobber]

Well you can get driveless units now for two hundred and change. The only caveat is you have to use a Toshiba GAP/MAP drive due to the power requirements. So another $150 for a 40 gig (60 gig is in the offing). Now for about $350, you can drag around ~650 hrs worth of music.

Yeah, I'd like it to be under a hundred bucks to. I'd also like a fully loaded Ford F250 Crew Cab for the price of a Toyota Echo.....and the mileage to boot.

Re:When will somebody manufacture

[t0qer]

Well,

If they can build a cybiko for $100 bucks then why not a cybiko to IDE interface? Seems simple enough.

Re: When will somebody manufacture

[pjrc]

Just a simple box that I can plug my OWN hard drives into?

Have you see my little open-source mp3 player circuit board project?? Yes, a shameless plug, but on-topic. I have the Neo guys also sell a box that you can plug your own drive into... or at least they did some time ago.

All I want, and please hear me out, is a pretty plastic box big enough to fit a laptop drive. Put a rechargable lithium ion battery in it. Some sort of LCD screen, Alphanumeric, TFT display, I don't care.

Saddly, there's nothing simple about pretty plastic boxes and li-ion batteries. Injection molding involved tooling costs in the range of $20k to $60k. Li-ion batteries are complex and take special circuits. They're only sold to a small number of companies who make custom battery packs (because the packs include critical safety circuits). High tooling setup fees also apply to Li-ion battery packs.

Keep the OS in a rom so I don't have to worry about storing it on the hard drive. Make sure there is enough OS to format the drive fat32.

Yep, did that. It's all GPL'd too, available from a CVS server, or on this firmware download page.

And I want all this for about $100 bucks. I think that's fair.

That would be fair, if you and millions of others were serious buyers.

But the do-it-yourself market is a niche, and the economy of scale associated with mass production just isn't possible. Still, I've tried to keep the costs low (and also keep it buildable for hobbists with hand soldering). By the time you add the LCD, it's at about twice the "fair" $100 mark. If you go price the parts alone (not even soldered together) at small quantity, you'll find you're well over $100. If you're Creative Labs or Apple building millions in China, you can make it that cheap, but a niche market as small volumes, it just isn't possible.

Anyway, later this year I'm planning to make a car stereo cd changer protocol emulator board, so this thing can emulate a cd changer (but with lots of discs with lots of files... depends on the limitations of each deck and its protocol).

Re:When will somebody manufacture

[Paul Carver]

Contact these people
IO Magic

They used to sell the Neo 2200 without a hard drive. Now it seems to only be available with a 20 Gig drive, but if you asked they might sell it without a drive.

Re: When will somebody manufacture

[t0qer]

Oh yeah i've seen your Mp3 player a ton of times, even posted it in a /. comment once. I never knew the PRJC author hung out here!

You are absolutely right though on the economies of scale thing, only way something could be sold at a reasonable cost is to build a bunch of them, and it's not too clear if the public is ready for a device that uses an internal component from a laptop, it sounds scary!

One of these days, when i'm working again and not losing weight to this pay the mortgage eat ramen diet I might get one of your units cause they are about the coolest and closest thing to what I want.

--Toq

Anyone else notice the major feature?

[jspoon]

What this has that iPod doesn't: support for Digital Rights Management.

that OS comment is why people think ...

[Lhadatt]

slashdot is composed entirely of rabid linux monkeys.

Why don't you try using the OS first, instead of demanding that a barely functional replacement be put on it? I can't see people using linux on the desktop, let alone a palm form-factor device. Can't you just be glad that there is a new device with advanced features that ISN'T running MS bloatware?

confused

[Anonymous Coward]

whats the advantage of using MicroOS instead of Linux? Seems to me that this thing could do everything it needs to do with Linux without paying any licence fees.

Is it possible that e.Digital is afraid of the wrath of Microsoft?

Re:confused

[Kwikymart]

*cough* Linux troll *cough*

They run MicroOS, which is specifically designed for their hardware (or their hardware is specifically designed for their OS, either way). There are no license fees. If you bothered to read the article you would have found that. Writing a new operating system would probably be less work than it would be to port Linux with all the features they want (USB 2.0, FM tuner, etc) and have it stable.

Also, its not that they are afraid of MS... not everything has to revolve around Linux. They made a choice that was good for them and thats about it. Even if it ran Linux I doubt MS would give a crap about some market they dont even compete in (ie, this is not a PDA)

E.Digital is a penny-stock scam!

[Anonymous Coward]

Many, many people see e.digital as being nothing more than a pump-and-dump penny stock scam, and there certainly is enough evidence to back it up.

This article barely touches the depth of shady deals this company is engaged in:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/bauder /20020707-9999_1b7bauder.html

They've announced several vaporware mp3 players, which caused a stock pump, and when nothing panned out the 'dump' came and the stock once again dropped. The few units they were able to manufacture are now being liquidated on ebay and various liquidator companies.

Most recently, the company has engaged in extremely questionable financial arrangements in order to stay afloat - they recently took out a $1.5 million loan with 100% of their company's assets as colatteral, to a shady off-shore entity, in a clear case of death-spiral financing.

This company currently has several hundred million outstanding shares, and is still issuing more.

The principals of the company have made something of a career out of pump-and-dump companies - look at the histories of Patriot Scientific (java procesor hype) and ATC (hyped audio technology). They're also involved in promoting movies and solo-flying machines. All the same gang. Decades of scam companies, lies and misleading statements to shareholders, and never once a real product or profits.

E.Digital does not deserve in any way to get this kind of exposure on slashdot.

(Disclaimer: I have never owned any shares, but I do know several people who were hoodwinked into purchasing shares, and lost a huge amount of money.)

Re:E.Digital is a penny-stock scam!

[Locutus]

I still find it amazing that they are still in business. Saw them at CES and was under welmed. Like you said, they've been promoting their advanced MP3 players for something like 3 years and have not much to show for it.

If you're a gambler, one more pump/dump might be in their bag-o-tricks....

LoB

Re:E.Digital is a penny-stock scam!

[slat rat]

As soon as I saw the photograph of E Digital's player, I immediately suspected that it was a total iPod knock-off and came to the reader messages to see if anyone had the inside scoop. It will be interesting to see if this product is actually released.

Re:E.Digital is a penny-stock scam!

[HEbGb]

I'll have to agree, based on what I know about them. From $0.05 to $24, and back to $0.45, all without profit or real sales, is quite a ride.

There's quite an active discussion of them over at the Reging bull stock chat site.

A very long but extremely informative post about these financial issues is here.

DRM Support!! Whoopee!

[-tji]

Wow, look at that feature list... 20GB storage, 16MB buffer, AM/FM radio, and best of all:

# WMA Digital Rights Management (DRM) support

Those marketroids really know how to sell a product. I'm sure customers will be clamoring for that feature.

USB 2.0 Implementations

[Quantum Singularity]

I think it's great that we're seeing more and more USB 2.0 implementations. It's easier and 480Mbps is better than Ethernet by far. Though I wouldn't mind getting a gigabit ethernet card.

Re:USB 2.0 Implementations

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone who says that USB2.0 is way better than 100 Mbps or 1 Gbps ethernet is clueless.

What is with the Intel fetish?

[Catbeller]

USB 2? Why?! I want Firewire! Is this too much to ask for?

Re:What is with the Intel fetish?

[Anonymous Coward]

USB 2? Why?! I want Firewire! Is this too much to ask for?

USB 2 is an industry standard. Firewire is an Apple proprietary technology that they force other people to pay royalties on. Why would I want to support Firewire (IEEE1394) in light of that? USB2 is just as fast and is INDUSTRY STANDARD! Oh, poor Mac users though, your computers don't support USB 2.0 do they? Not even your new shiny $5000 G4 towers or the brand new iMac.. hahaha. Shortsighted Apple as usual.

Re:What is with the Intel fetish?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, my Mac doesn't support this device that'll never even be released anyway. Boy, do I feel stupid for buying it now. Boo hoo hoo!

Re:What is with the Intel fetish?

[ion497]

Wow, you need to do your homework before you open your mouth...

I'll give you one reason why Firewire is much better than USB for MP3 players: Power. The Firewire cable can be used to supply power to an attached device. The iPod for example, charges it's battery while it is connected to your computer (to sync up with your music library)... It's a small thing but VERY useful. Nuff said.

Yes, but will it...

[Invictus2.0]

Any chance someone will get it to run Linux instead?

I think the bigger question is, will it play Vorbis? I'd kill for a high quality Vorbis player other than the Zaurus.

Re:Yes, but will it...

[Anonymous Coward]

vorbis blows, hate to say it. .ogg files? pff. vbr? crap i like mp3 set at 192kb, its hardly anybetter than mp3. so why even switch or even re-encode all your mp3s. heh lame vorbis is

Oh no...DRM Support!!!!!!!!

[Critical_]

Looks like there is something in this device which shouldn't be there:

WMA Digital Rights Management (DRM) support On one side, we /.'ers run around screaming about DRM and the other side our favorite site (/.) runs stories like these. Seems like no one here knows what they truely stand for. I call for a boycott!!!

I guess I will stick to the iPOD.

DRM use isn't mandatory

[interiot]

DRM is just there in case someone wants to listen to content that has DRM protections included. Other than the MS's licensing fees you inevitably pay, you're free to use it or ignore it, it's your choice. Inclusion of DRM won't hinder your ability to use it as an MP3 player.

(I'm sort of in the same position: I work for a company who is including MS DRM in the product I'm working on. I justify it by noting that I don't work on it, and if MS were to be sued out of existance tommorow, the product can still work admirably as an MP3 player)

Re:DRM use isn't mandatory

[sweet reason]

buying a DRM-enabled device does have an effect even if you don't use the feature: the more DRM-supporting boxes there are in people's hands, the less the RIAA will have to worry about losing customers who can't play DRM-encumbered music.

Re:DRM use isn't mandatory

[JudgeFurious]

No it's not mandatory but it will be if we all sit there and accept it. Possibly that's already been covered by another reply to your post but it's worth repeating. If we buy the stuff that's been neutered this way then we won't have anyone else to blame but ourselves when the inevitable happens.

Excellent

[blackula]

Not only does this player support Windows and USB 2.0, it also has support for the superior WMA audio codec. As WMA can encode better sounding music at half the bitrate of MP3, this effectively doubles its capacity. Good going, e.Digital.

Re:Excellent

[iJed]

It is thought that Apple will be adding AAC audio support to the iPod sometime in the near future. AAC supposedly has superior compression and quality to WMA.

What I havent seen...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is anyone talking about the Archos Studio 20 MP3 player. I bought it for 300 bucks during christmas, so I imagine its a little cheaper now. It has a 20 gig storage capacity, uses USB (not USB 2.0 unfortunatly), has lots of options and is PC compatable. Its a great MP3 player and it get can get pretty dang loud, which is something I you dont usually in a lot of players now adays. Check it out at www.Archos.com. Its been so long since ive used html, sorry cant remember how to link.

Why they don't want to use FireWire....

[Caduceus1]

...they don't feel like paying the royalties for FireWire to Apple... :^)

Re:Why they don't want to use FireWire....

[ZxCv]

They don't feel like paying the royalties? Good lord, what a crappy reason. I know I'd certainly be willing to absorb those royalties and pay $300 for my mp3 player instead of $299, if it meant I got firewire instead of usb2.

Re:Why they don't want to use FireWire....

[Anonymous Coward]

there is no apple tax. i'm sick of this myth being repeated.

wtf?

[tomstdenis]

Any chance someone will get it to run Linux instead?

WTF does that have todo with anything? I bet your wrist watch doesn't run linux either...

Seriously people. There is dedicated then there is stupid. Guess which one this articles' poster is.

Tom

Re:wtf?

[PastorOfMuppets]

"I bet your wrist watch doesn't run linux either..."

Not yet.

:-)

Re:DRM Support!! Whoopee!

[AHumbleOpinion]

... WMA Digital Rights Management (DRM) support ... I'm sure customers will be clamoring for that feature ...

Actually, they are. Drop an audio CD into a Windows PC and Windows Media Player will want to rip it into WMA files. You have to get 3rd party software for MP3 ripping. So yes, it is a very good business move to support WMA and the DRM that comes along with it.

Correct

[sulli]

Don't give them your money:

Features:
WMA Digital Rights Management (DRM) support

iPod has NO DRM and works great. Stick with it to avoid getting fucked.

Re:Correct

[Hadlock]

i'll bite.... yes it does. you can't (at least, not easily/out of the box) copy your mp3 collection on the ipod to another person's mac. the mp3's are "locked" on your computer. nothing prevents you from copying them to your ipod using it as a hard drive, plugging it into another mac, and uploading them to the new host computer, though.

Re:Correct

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, your iPod is 'linked' with your version of iTunes. That sort of make sense.

But to move mp3 around, you don't have to do what you suggested, but instead:

* Take you iPod with your music on it
* Connect it to your friend Mac
* Open Terminal.app
* cd to /Volumes/iPod
* use 'ls -la' + cd to get into the right directory.
* Use "open ." so it gets shown in the Finder (or use "cp -r")

Re:Correct

[Anonymous Coward]

Or run "iPod Free File Sync." Google for it. Works perfectly.

Re:Correct

[netsharc]

Quick, over here, call the DMCA Police, this AC just broke the DMCA! Quickly, while he's still here..

Sarcasm?

EXACTLY

[Anonymous Coward]

Ive owned my jukebox since christmas. I even got a 4 year warrenty on it. Does apple offer that? No, didnt think so. Yes the UI on it is a little dumb, but once you use it for oh.... 30 seconds its all painfully obvious. I certainly took a huge leap investing that much money into an mp3 player I had actually never heard of, but I seriously could not be happier with it. Someone said that its ugly? I think not. I like the color scheme on it. Everyone always seems to think that anything "Apple" is inherintly good looking. 'Fraid not, the iPod is just about the ugliest piece of hardware ive seen. And oh yeah, connectivity is way easier with archos. I know a few people that cant even get the iPod to connect at all.

Re:EXACTLY

[SirRichardPumpaloaf]

Is it really logically impossible for both the Archos and the iPod to be good? In order to feel good about your decision, is it necessary that all other possibilities suck? I have an iPod and I like it, a friend has an Archos and he likes that. Maybe they are both nice pieces of hardware? Nah, couldn't be...

Re:EXACTLY

[Anonymous Coward]

No, that isnt what I'm saying at all. All I wanted to point out was that the iPod isn't the end all mp3 player like most people think it is. Not to say that the Archos is, but I think attention should be paid to both sides of the Mac-PC argument, including lesser known products like the Archos.

Re:DRM Support!! Whoopee!

[Squarewav]

It's not so much that it has DRM as it supports DRM as in if you have any WMA files that are protected you can play them on this player. If it required DRM it would suck, but it doesnt as in the main format is MP3

Re:Is it real?

[iJed]

It looks like a cheap iPod rip-off. I think that if I was going to invest in a portable music player then I would go for the real iPod and not something made to make people think that it is an iPod.

It's intersting that it

[danny256]

uses USB 2.0

It's interesting that they'd choose USB 2.0 over firewire. the iPod (being apple's) most certainly has fireware as the obvious choice because apple supports that, so to compete with it you'd think they use firewire as well. USB 2.0 seems too PC-centric, but perhaps this has been released as the PCs answer to the iPOD.

I don't see what they have improved...

[AltaMannen]

In order for a product to be newsworthy, it should offer something new and interesting.

What I could see was: slightly bigger and using usb 2.0 instead of firewire. oh, and fm which probably has "reception" of some "quality".

I'm looking for a replacement for my crappy aging archos player and the new iPod definitely seems to be the way to go if people are celebrating less impressive devices.

Re:I don't see what they have improved...

[Anonymous Coward]

I love it when dumba--es make comments like that, showing how eager they are to shoot off at the mouth without taking the time to read something first. Besides the USB2 and the fm reception, it also has WMA support, can act as a voice recorder, and perhaps most distinctively allows you to navigate throught that huge selection of music using a voice recognition system designed by Lucent (you remember, the ones who were the research arm for ATT for about 50 years).

All that, and the exterior design is by Digitalway, a korean company who does MP3 players for Samsung, who's current mpio players get rave reviews, and who commands 30% of the world digital audio player market. Oh yeah, and it looks like this player will come in a good $100-150 cheaper than the ipod.

Yeah, not much new here.....

Re:DRM Support!! Whoopee!

[Anonymous Coward]

Or download Winamp. Are people that lazy?

Backward Compatible?

[Seth Golub]

Is it compatible with the Odyssey? Can I play pong on it?

45 mins later....

[Anonymous Coward]

...still not slashdotted. And the sad thing is that this will probably pass meta-moderation...

Re:45 mins later....

[MaxVlast]

Big fucking deal.

bad choice of OS?

[briancnorton]

Cmon guys, A bad choice of OS? Do your MP3s sound different under linux than MicrOS 2.0? No. Linux is as suited to a pocket MP3 player as an elephant is in the express lane. Sure it can work, but WHY?

usb 2?

[macsox]

the firewire/power port on the ipod is one of the primary breakthoughs about it! who the hell wants to transfer 20G over USB?

Re:usb 2?

[jonnythan]

Why not? It's no slower than firewire.

Firewire is 400 Mbps. USB 2.0 is 480 Mbps.

And you *know* USB 2.0 will be on every new PC in less than a year (it's already on newer mb's and such), but firewire isn't remotely universal?

Re:usb 2?

[Defender2000]

Transferring 20G over USB1.1 would be a pain. Using USB2.0, on the other hand... look here: USB2.0 vs FireWire.

Re:usb 2?

[Anonymous Coward]

Plug a single USB1 device into a USB2 root hub, and every device will be throttled to USB1 speeds.

USB2 is a stupid idea.

Re:usb 2?

[gerardrj]

That page you linked to shows that USB-2.0 real-world througput is often 1/2 that of FireWire when talking to the same device.
So the question remains... if FW and USB2 PCI cards cost about the same, and FW is masterless, is faster, and is already standard on so many devices, WHY use USB2?

Re:usb 2?

[Anonymous Coward]

Copy and pasted from a post from the same comment:

"And you *know* USB 2.0 will be on every new PC in less than a year (it's already on newer mb's and such), but firewire isn't remotely universal?"

Re:usb 2?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because Intel seems to be pushing the hell out of USB2, Apple is doing nothing for Firewire, and because of that USB2 will be the plug and play high speed standard for computer devices.

Re:usb 2?

[Tuzanor]

Firewire has a SUSTAINABLE rate of 400 Mbps. USB 2.0 has a MAXIMUM rate of 480, but as usual, in practice its a lot less. The whole USB 2.0 thing really is a sham (its a shame really).

Re:usb 2?

[Oculus Habent]

nVidia's new nForce2 chipset has USB 2.0 and FireWire support. I have seen firewire on the front panel of some Compaqs (a little while ago). It is available on Dells. I can't speak for anything else, as I don't regularly go computer shopping. The latest in MicroATX computers (Shuttle) have FireWire onboard.

Sure, USB 2.0 is a bit faster. But it incurs more host overhead (especially communicating between two devices) and doesn't offer as much power.

USB 2.0 would be great if FireWire didn't already exists. It is not needed, and the decision between USB 2.0 and FireWire hurts people's ability to purchase new devices.

USB 1.1 is fine for what it is: high speed serial ports. Keyboards, mice, tablets, floppy drives, low-end webcams, some scanners... It doesn't need to be more than that. FireWire is physically as easy, and is a more versatile technology.

Re:usb 2?

[Catbeller]

USB 2.0 will run at 480 Mbps in a best case scenario. Firewire will always run at 400. Why? Firewire is peer-to-peer, USB x.0 requires CPU intervention.

And comparing Firewire 1.0 to USB 2.0 is a tad unfair, because Firewire 2.0 (1394b), ramping up this year, will run at 800 Mbps.

Re:usb 2?

[non3ntity]

I'm sure they aren't lying to us when they say it will transfer a whole audio CD to the player via USB 2.0 in about 5 seconds. Check it out, the "Typical USB 2.0 transfer rate" is 8MB/sec according to the press release, so that figure must be fast enough to transfer a whole CD in 5 seconds, converting on the fly. One of those tiny CDs, yeah.

Doing the math, simplistically: 5 seconds * 8MB = 40MB. Typical audio CD with a maximum capacity of 650MB / 8MB = 81.25 seconds.

Do you see any disparity in those figures?

Re:usb 2?

[foobar104]

Apple is doing nothing for FireWire? Since when? It's everywhere. I have a FireWire CDRW and two FireWire hard drives on this computer, all three bought at the local CompUSA. FireWire products are everywhere.

Coolest application of FireWire ever: the iPod has no socket on it for an AC adapter. The AC adapter has a two-prong plug on one end, and a six-pin FireWire port on the other. To charge your iPod from the wall, you plug the AC adapter into the FireWire port. I've seen FireWire connections that carry data but no power, but this is the first instance I know of a connection carrying power but no data. Cool!

Re:usb 2?

[Nex]

Not actually true.

Plug two usb 1.1 devices on and they'll be sharing bandwidth making them both slower from what I've read. They may also take something from a usb 2 device but I'm not sure about that because I haven't done it.

However, One usb 1.1 device doesn't slow down any usb 2.0 devices on the same card. That I'm sure of because I do it daily. Nex

Re:usb 2?

[Hadlock]

i for one wouldn't miss all those 100 different sizes of cyindrillical AC/DC adaptors for my various devices like hubs... the 6 pin firewire connection (while larger) would be convenient, even if you had to use a more expensive multi-voltage adaptor

Re:usb 2?

[jx100]

They could be talking about comprelled MP3s that have been ripped off of a CD, which could be around 40 MiB

Re:usb 2?

[non3ntity]

They might *mean* that, but it's not what they wrote in their press release - specifically "an entire CD" , not an album. It doesn't say whether it comprells the data on the host computer or on the unit - but the stuff about a "mirror library" kinda implies that comprellion is done on the host (lazy 'feature' where temp files are kept instead of being deleted after transfer?).

Arg I know you mean mebibytes not Will'n'Tommy, but I just have to say that Patrice Rushen's "Forget-me-nots" is a far superior original than Will Smith's appalling rip-off them to MiB. There. I feel better.

Re:usb 2?

[bryanp]

Simple - wide availablity / convenience.

If your customer buys a USB2 device and only has USB1.1 (which almost anybody does) they can upgrade their computer, or they can just deal with the slower speed. Either way they can still use the device. With Firewire they have no choice - if they don't have a Firewire port, they have to upgrade.

And y'know what? If you're used to USB1.1, then 2 will seem like lightning. It's only by comparison to something most users have never experienced that it suffers.

Not saying I like it, but that's the reason.

Re:usb 2?

[gerardrj]

So why doesn't Intel just adopt FireWire and make it the standard. Then all MBs will have FW and USB1.1 on board. Then economies of scale can start to take hold and chip prices will drop.
I've read that Intel was basically coersced in to supporting USB2 on their chipsets. It seems the only reason it will survive is politics, not superiority in any way.

Re:usb 2?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Apple,

I am a homosexual. I bought an Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.

with much gayness,

Father Randy "Pudge" O'Day, S.J.

finally, an upgrade for my Odessy2

[i.r.id10t]

Finally, I get to upgrade my old Magnavox Odessy2! Anyone know if this new one will still plug into my TV with one of those PITA coax switchers, and come with those useless joysticks?

Re:finally, an upgrade for my Odessy2

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut the fuck up, you sack of shit.

If Only

[Anonymous Coward]

The only "useful" features of this-- audio input, FM tuning-- could be done entirely as add-ons to the iPod.

The iPod is dwarfed by a pack of cigarettes. It would be a piece of cake to manufacture a snap-on microphone or FM tuner that latched itself into the iPod firewire port and hugged the back of the unit. You could simply remove

Apple should either open-source the iPod firmware, create a plug-in thingy that lets you add functionality to the iPod, or just agree to license the firmware source code to people who want to do things like create input devices for the iPod. Imagine how much more attractive the iPod would be after just six months of hobbyists writting mini-apps for the iPod.. games, gameboy emulators, little mini-dsp/soundsynth apps, generative music programs a la Koan.. it would be quite messy, but it would be fun. People would definitely go for it, i think, and at the least apple would have tons of linux hobbyists buying iPods just so they could have fun programming the little cigarette-pack-sized device with the 10GB hard drive and the LCD screen.

(If I could get an iPod with sound input AIFF-recording capability that i could use like a small DAT recorder, i WOULD buy one-- even at current prices, an iPod is way cheaper than a portable DAT tape drive.. It would be great to walk into the music dept. at my college with an iPod and a microphone, put them down on the piano, start playing, and get crystal-clear recordings .. eh.. maybe i'll just buy one of those Mini tape drives from radioshack. How's the sound quality on those?)

One more tiny thing to mention: the iPod is still smaller than this eDigital Odyssey Whatever thing. The iPod is 4.0 x 2.4 x 0.84 inches, and
this thingy is 4.3 x 2.87 x 0.9 inches.The difference is even more pronounced if you look at the 10GB iPod, which is over a tenth of an inch thinner from front to back...

-- super ugly ultraman

iPod Clones?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why must everyone use the phrase "iPod Clone?" When will people finally accept that it is simply the next generation of MP3 players?

Re:iPod Clones?

[Lord Kenja]

Well. Maybe becurse it has the exact shape and almost the exact same buttons on the front. AND it seems to use sofrware that looks exactly like the software on an iPod. Apart from that it's not a clone at all.

Re:iPod Clones?

[Surlyboi]

Why must everyone use the phrase "iPod Clone?"

Because that's what this looks like? Next Gen MP3
player it may be, but it still looks damn derivative.

Re:iPod Clones?

[Anonymous Coward]

i agree with you big time

when are the steve jobs worshippers going get a F*KIN LIFE? why is every HDD-based MP3 player "an ipod knockoff?" excuse me, these things were on the market for at least 2 years before apple "invented it." about the only innovations in the ipod are 1) firewire 2) 1.5" form factor drive. gee, that's really hard to imagine...putting those things into an mp3 player...maybe apple should try to patent it!

seems like every time jobs takes some old idea and tweaks it into something pretty the supplicant ass-kisses out there start to worship it as a brilliant innovation.

maybe you think the archos is ugly & heavy but i'm keeping it until something that doesn't use that horribly ugly mac font hits the streets at ta reasonable price. unlike your crappy ipod, it doesn't have any DRM sh*t and lets me copy the stuff OUT of the device as well as put it IN.

Bingo!

[Overzeetop]

It's good to know that there's someone else out there thinking the same damned thing. I find it a bit odd that MP3 CD players are selling for less than $60, but you can't tack on an MP3 player to any of the existing USB/USB2/FW enclosures out there. Of course, I'd probably want a 3.5 incher so I could drop a spare 30G into it and take my whole collection with me.

Damnit...I checked the link in the other reply - Cool, but $200 too much :-(

USB? Ugh.

[__david__]

Why do all these companies think that USB 2.0 is ok? Has anyone ever benchmarked USB 2.0? It is sssssslllllooooowwww! [1] Some needs to smack these designers and make them put a REAL bus (like FireWire) on these devices. When you are talking about significant ammounts of data its very important that your bus be as fast as it can be. Sadly, USB 2.0 just doesn't cut it.

I've been waiting for some company to come out with an iPod competitor to drive the prices down, but no one is going to be able to compete (in my mind) until they make a FireWire version.

-David

[1] We've run many tests at our company with USB 2.0 and FireWire to ATA bridges, and without fail the USB 2.0 are (at best!) half the speed of FireWire. This is especially pathetic when you see that USB's max bandwidth is 480 Mbits, and FireWire is 400. I don't know if its inefficient protocols, crappy drivers, crappy host bus chips or crappy bridge chips but whatever it is USB 2.0 is substandard. Avoid it.

Re:USB? Ugh.

[silas_moeckel]

I'll second that I have been playing with several USB 2.0 and Firewire to IDE briges and USB transfer rates are abismal. But lets remember firewire was braught to us by apple land of get it right the first time (remember these guys had SCSI drives in all there machines since the SE) USB is a hack at best and designed for the cheap as posible to implement croud. IDE was allways a cheap bus the only thing it has going for it is the vast ammounts of price bloat on the SCSI side. Firewire is just SCSI over a fast serial connection and in reality just a slow version of FCAL (ok not entirly there are some technical differences FCAL is significatly better but at a huge price point comparitivly it should be the new storage standard for servers) Granted with this all said neither is fast enough for a modestly fast hard drive to not see it as a bottleneck but trust me put you noisy fan loaded PC in your closet/basement run some quality KVM extensions USB firewire and sound (SPDIF of course :) up to your work area use a USB floppy and Firewire CDR/DVD and you have a nice nearly noiseless envirnment when you not activly accessing a disk with all the comferts of home (get a remote for the power switch X10 works well if your running windows for those hard reboots :)

Re:USB? Ugh.

[iphayd]

"This is especially pathetic when you see that USB's max bandwidth is 480 Mbits, and FireWire is 400."

This is the only incorrect statement in your post, and it is also why your results are crappy.

It should read...

"USB2's results are so pathetic because its max. bandwith is 480Mbps, while firewire has a sustained rate of 400Mbps."

USB2's 480Mbps is FUD, aimed squarely across Firewire's bow. The pathetic thing is that it is working.

Re:USB? Ugh.

[Anonymous Coward]

From their site: Typical USB 2.0 transfer rate: 8 Megabytes per second (MBps)

Isn't this a lot less than USB's 480 Mbps (60 MBps) rate? It's better than USB 1.1 but still sucks.

Re:USB? Ugh.

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember, the mp3 device has to write the data onto the hard drive. Those mini-hard drives are NOT going to keep up with a 60MB/sec rate. 8MB/sec is probably pretty close to the hard drive burst write speed.

If you do the math on Apple's iPod, they are no where near the bandwidth limit of Firewire as well. Otherwise, you'd have about 1000 songs (5GB) transfered in 102 seconds!! Thats not enough time to recharge it!

Tom

Re:USB? Ugh.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm... Just how efficient was first generation Firewire/ATA bridges? Does the phrase "13MB/sec bottleneck" come to mind?

Wait til the 2nd generation USB2/ATA bridges come out before passing judgement.

Re:USB? Ugh.

[Anonymous Coward]

New PC computers with USB ports: 99%
New PC computers with FireWire ports: not many

There's your reason.

Re:USB? Ugh.

[__david__]

Cost of FireWire card: < $20

Never happen, for two reasons

[ColGraff]

One, the average user - you know, the kind that thinks Yahoo is cool and is scared of command prompts - is not going to be very willing to install his or her own hard drive. Yes, I know, it's simplicity itself, but too many people have an unreasoning fear of computer parts, and will not touch them. Period.

Two, the whole trend is towards more digital rights management, which is all about controlling what goes on a player. Forcing the user to buy a unit with the hard drive sealed in, and loading music using proprietary software, makes controlling what goes on the player much easier than letting people use their own drives.

Also, I hope when you say "ROM", you mean flashable ROM - it would stink if you were stuck with only the formats available when the unit came out, and couldn't upgrade to new standards later.

Re:Never happen, for two reasons

[t0qer]

Well for starters,

A laptop hard drive has all the pins, power included built into one 44 pin micro molex connector. Other than changing a jumper, they would just have to slide it in.

I hope they sell something

[Anonymous Coward]

Mabey this will make my E.Digital shares go up a little.

enough with these vaporware articles!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm getting tired of all these vaporware articles. This does not seem very newsworthy to me, especially given that their product is just another iPod wannabe. Articles like this almost make me want to quit slashdot.

Percentage of USB Ready Computers

[Scyber]

Is greater than Firewire Ready Computers. That is the simple reason why they supported USB2.0. Granted using it on USB 1.0 would be slow, but at least it can be used. If you were a 3rd party company looking to sell a product to as many people as possible you would make the same choice too.

Re:Percentage of USB Ready Computers

[Kevinv]

but the number of firewire computers is > than the number of USB 2.0 ready computers.

USB 2.0 devices usually work with USB 1 computers, but the speed sucks (and IMO for a 10GB device is unusable).

Of course the real reason most media players go with USB 2 over Firewire -- USB is royalty free, Firewire requires royalties paid to Apple.

So the iPod for Windows gives an additional little kickback to Apple when the owner has to buy a Firewire card too.

Re:Percentage of USB Ready Computers

[Gogo Dodo]

The license fee is 25 cents per product. Yup, a quarter. Not exactly high, huh?

Also, it's not just Apple that receives the whole quarter. See the 1392 LA website for details.

Modded down... why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah SlashDot groupthink. Is there anything sweeter?

Have to agree here...

[Mulletproof]

Rabid Apple fanboys prop their products up way too much sometimes. No, it doesn't have to be one way or the other, but beyond the "wow, it's a small MP3 HD thing", it isn't all that in the looks department. Infact, it rather looks like an eMac, which are butt-ugly. Just an opinion. I want different colors. But then, I still doubt I'd pay the premium price tag...

For What It's Worth...

[Anonymous Coward]

I wrote Apple requesting a built in mic for the iPod months ago. I needed a handheld recorder for taking notes at work, and figured if Apple would put the mic in the iPod, I could burn a few hours of meetings as .mp3s and later zoom it to my Hard Drive for burning on a CD. Clean, easy, organized... Perfect. I thought it was genius, and was ready to buy one.

Apple never responded to my request and nothing ever happened. OH WELL, I'm happy the guys at the SONY STORE could help me out.

Damn stupid Apple, we're trying to HELP YOU!!! Morons! This product proves me right. I think I'll send Apple a link and a rant. Apple pisses me off more and more every day. It's like Woz or Jon Ives saying "Hey, wouldn't this (insert innovative genius idea here) be a good idea?" and getting shouted down over and over. Frustrating. And it's amazing that I haven't lost hope yet.

Mattman

I'm no photo analyst, but....

[DiscoOnTheSide]

Doesn't that pic look like a rendering more than a actual picture. And the OS screen looks EXACTLY like an iPod's, even the battery gauge in the upper right corner. Some the the accents on the chrome and the reflections on the surroundings don't exactly look "natural" if you catch my drift. Or maybe it's a blur from caffiene withdrawal.....*chugs can of Mountain Dew* Nope. I still think it's a rendering.

So?

[ColGraff]

My mom is still scared of the idea, and the average user is not that much more savvy than my mom. (Hi, mom!)

Re:So?

[Moofie]

I'm lucky. My mom's a computer badass. (Hi Mom!)

ideal portable player recorder?

[Rory Drum]

It looks from the specifications that this, alas, too fails to meet the demand for high quality digital capture and storage devices for purposes like media production, research, ethnographic fieldwork, radio journalism, music recording etc. We seem to be very close to developing marvelous recording tools: A sturdy well built 20 gig portable hard drive with rugged microphone inputs, real time level adjustments, choice of digital audio formats. It should record at digitally pure and rich CD and DVD level quality effortlessly and dependably. It should be little and indestructible. It should fold seamlessly into the computer through drag and drop compatible with major operating systems. One should be able to get media onto the web with one click of a button. The Archos and Creative Jukeboxes are close, but do not seem as dependable and well built as they should be. Minidiscs show promise but present transfer problems and a marginal compression format. Card recorders are too small for really high quality recording. Has anyone heard of a solution to this need? Whoever develops such a tool would sell 'em like hotcakes! The net will have to become media rich. The question is whose media will it be? Devices like this will help the media be part of the voice of the people...

Re: ideal portable player recorder?

[MacEnvy]

A sturdy well built 20 gig portable hard drive with rugged microphone inputs, real time level adjustments, choice of digital audio formats. It should record at digitally pure and rich CD and DVD level quality effortlessly and dependably. It should be little and indestructible. It should fold seamlessly into the computer through drag and drop compatible with major operating systems ... There is something like that - it's called the iPod! Everything you mentioned is a feature of the iPod (at least operating in OS X). For God's sake, who cares whether it records in MP3, WMA, or Vorbis. Doesn't matter. What matters is that it sounds damn good, and does what it is supposed to. My iPod has that down to a t.

Re: ideal portable player recorder?

[jaoswald]

You miss his point ENTIRELY, despite quoting the part of his post that has all the key words in it.

He wants a replacement for a tape RECORDER, not a player. The iPod is a PLAYER.

I agree with him that a hand-held recording device that would rip audio to high-fidelity digital audio on a ultra-compact hard drive would be most excellent.

Substantially larger...

[Anonymous Coward]

20GB iPod: 4.0"x2.4"x0.78" = 7.488 cubic inches
This thing: 4.3"x2.87"x0.9" = 11.1069 cubic inches

That's a big difference in your pocket, and the lower capacity iPods are smaller still.

No mention of price, weight, etc. And I'll bet money that the interface isn't as good as the iPod's. That scroll wheel is reeeealy handy. This press release is an unwelcome bit of FUD.

Apple doesn't charge a royalty for Firewire

[Catbeller]

Another fine myth: Apple charging freight for using 1393.

Nope. Years back, the fee was $1.00. Now, I think it's nothing.

How much does Intel charge for USB? And why are they influencing the market by retarding adoption? Firewire is superior to USB 1&2 in every way, and Firewire 2 will be insane.

FW is expensive because Intel wants it that way. They don't want Apple to succeed, and they've too much investment in USB teh to let it go.

Re:Apple doesn't charge a royalty for Firewire

[Anonymous Coward]

In every way except bandwidth. Firewire is 400Mb/s, USB 2.0 is 480Mb/s.

Re:Apple doesn't charge a royalty for Firewire

[Anonymous Coward]

In every way except bandwidth. Firewire is 400Mb/s, USB 2.0 is 480Mb/s.

That would be impressive if it were 480Mb/s for any given channel. But it is actually 230Mb/s per channel.

And how often are you going to use both channels at the same time?

Trade Dress

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like a a blatant rip off....Apple sued under the trade dress doctrine when people starting trying to clone the iMac look...wouldn't surprise me if they do the same here.

Blasphemy!

[Mulletproof]

No! You don't realize the glory of blessing Linux upon a platform it was never meant to receive! Unwashed heathen! Consoles! MP3 players! Dishwashers! All should have Linux mounted upon their very souls! Linux bubble gum! linux candy! Linux toothbrushes! SACRIFICE IN THE NAME OF LINUX!!!!

Ahem. that was a minor summery of what happens on slashdot anytime a minor electronic device is mentioned on linux. The real texts are a whole lot worse.

Sure it's flamebait. But it's TRUE.

Re:DRM Support!! Whoopee!

[Anonymous Coward]

Winamp is 3rd party software.

Yes people are lazy and/or they are novices and don't really know that MS is using WMA. All they know is they have music files made from their CD.

Re:LCD color accuracy

[Archon]

The other point, have you ever seen the iMac screen or any Apple flat screen? I mean, these screens are used by major print houses because of their color accuracy.

Actually, even top-end LCD monitors don't have the color-reproduction accuracy of even a middle-end CRT. They come close but if you're actually doing any prepress color-sensitive work you're using a CRT if you know what's up.

linux toasters

[commodoresloat]

Did you port Linux to your toaster yet fuckwad?

Linux on toasters? Yawn. It's been done. I don't want to hear about toasters on linux either.

but all this does is play music...

[Yuke!Yuke!Marina]

Why not one that shows video too like the V-MP3H ? These are occasionally on sale at Compgeeks for $200 (hard drive not included) . I have resisted buying one so far and don't know anyone that has one. Only info I have seen about it is here: http://micro.ee.nthu.edu.tw/~aaron/MMV-80H/ - I can't read this but there are plenty of pictures. Seems tempting, but might not work all that well. Appears to work with Windows and Mac, Linux is not mentioned.

Re:LCD color accuracy

[Moofie]

And all four people who are doing color prepress will let you take their Radius 20" color-matched CRTs out of their cold, dead hands.

(yes, that's an exaggeration...I know that's a huge market, particularly for the Mac...but those people aren't going to be buying new monitors. The ones they have are going to keep working for a decade.)

The rest of the population of Earth would be thrilled to get back some desk space. And lower power requirements. And make less waste heat.

Are there users who still need CRTs? You betcha. Good thing nobody's talking about not making them anymore.

e.Digital Odyssey 1000 unique features

[wolfyy]

While you're foaming at the gums over what this e.digital player lacks, look at what it does have that is unique... Voice Navigation (you TELL it what to play and it plays it) and computer-free ripping of tunes. Drag 'N' Rip, directly from a CD. Pretty cool. Looks like a potential winner to me.

Re:e.Digital Odyssey 1000 unique features

[davesag]

voice navigation eh? what they probably mean by that is the same as the voice navigation you see in mobile phones. ie voice tags, ie crap.

drag'n'rip! um, where does the CD go?

sounds like bollocks to me.

Re:e.Digital Odyssey 1000 unique features

[wolfyy]

We don't have to guess about what they "probably" mean by Voice Navigation. This feature is already on the market in e.Digital's MXP-100 player. Check it out at CompUSA. You talk to the thing, say "Free Bird", and if Free Bird is on the device it will play it. And you don't have to train it to your voice either. Where does the CD go?? Close enough to be attached with a small cable. There's an input jack to accept input from a mic, portable player or whatever.

iPod for Windows

[eekDude]

It looks nice and all, but man, a beautiful, DRM-free iPod for Windows still looks more attractive. (more info at mp3newswire.net).

Re:LCD color accuracy

[foobar104]

If you're actually doing any prepress color-sensitive work you're using a CRT if you know what's up.

Actually, if you're really doing prepress work, then you don't give two shits about your monitor. Every print artist worth his salt knows that it's impossible to judge color accurately on-screen, no matter how closely you calibrate the display. In fact, having an expensive, closely calibrated device is worse than having one that's way off, because you're more likely to trust-- mistakenly-- a ``close'' monitor than a ``way off'' one.

Color calibration between displays and presses is a myth. What you see on the screen means nothing. That's what proofs are for.

Why is parent marked as flamebait?

[rsborg]

He added to the discussion. It's ontopic, and he brings up some interesting points like:

Granted with this all said neither is fast enough for a modestly fast hard drive to not see it as a bottleneck but trust me put you noisy fan loaded PC in your closet/basement run some quality KVM extensions USB firewire and sound (SPDIF of course :) up to your work area use a USB floppy and Firewire CDR/DVD and you have a nice nearly noiseless envirnment when you not activly accessing a disk with all the comferts of home (get a remote for the power switch X10 works well if your running windows for those hard reboots :)

Since the iPod is essentially a firewire HD, it's all interesting, besides, I've been working on a noiseless setup for awhile now, just I didn't think about the X10 switches.

Because nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

Why did you buy a computer that can't be upgraded? Sounds like a bad move to me, and you want us to change our interface to subsidize your bad decision? And make it only plug into newer macs and a few PCs with upgraded cards?

A lot of PCs come with USB2.0 built-in, and virtually every PC (and mac) has USB1.x, so that makes this infinitely more interchangeable than iPod, with similar transfer speeds for a $10 upgrade card (Fry's last weekend).

Just because you picked a narrow platform with poor hardware upgradability, don't expect us to take up the slack for you.

Re:Because nobody cares

[Anonymous Coward]

ummm, USB 2.0 is inferior in every way to Firewire. Get over it.

Damn, people...

[Anonymous Coward]

...am I the only one who noticed that the picture on their press release looks suspiciously ray-traced? Do they even mention a release date anywhere? This whole thing is shouting "vaporware" to me - wake me when they actually have a product.

Re:Is it real?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, could you loan me $500?

Not everyone can afford to pay for the namebrand.

Archos Jukebox != iPod Competitor

[rsborg]

Can anyone explain to me why people think there are no options for a PC based portable MP3 player?

Maybe because noone's really takling about an PC based (HD) MP3 player?
They're talking about an iPod competitor (see story title). What makes the iPod so special? Here's a /. post I made earlier about the issue.

Really there's a world of difference.

Note: I don't own an iPod, it's a bit too expensive for me :-(

Re:Archos Jukebox != iPod Competitor

[casio282]

I fail to see how the Archos isn't an iPod Competitor. Your points in the linked post all are talking about MP3CD players -- there is no comparison.

Form factor: The archos is only slightly larger than the iPod -- the iPod dimensions are 4.2" x 2.43" x 0.78" while the archos' are 4.5 x 3.2 x 1.3"; it fits in my coat pocket just fine.

Hard drive == skip resistant, you say. Umm, exactly. Both the iPod and Archos are basically portable hard drives.

You are right that the 'charge while you transfer' capability of the iPod is more convenient than the Archos' 'charge with an AC adapter', but last I checked being a competitor didn't mean having an identical feature list. And it's true that the Archos uses batteries, but I wouldn't really know it. I've used the thing daily for about 6 months now and have never had to change them. I've never even run out of juice, despite using it extensively without charging. It seems like more than 6 hours.

The current Archos models support USB2, which is more or less equivalent to firewire in terms of transfer rate.

So again, remind me how the iPod and the Archos Jukebox aren't competitors?

USB2+FW

[Anonymous Coward]

- Is there any reason why they could not the little buggers it with BOTH USB2 and FW?

- Another thing that Apple seems to have figured out quicker than most is the ABSOLUTE nightmare to keep all three HDs in Sync (Home, Work and Portable HD).

- In the future I see myself carrying not only my data, but my apps with me. Probably my OS too. I will just plug into any screen/keyboard/CPU combo and do my thing. After all, the real important stuff are my files and the apps I need to run them.

- Portability and good organisation of preferences will also be a BIG issue.

Won't pay more than $200

[lateralus_1024]

Not in this economy!

I hope this thing finds it way into my hands for that magic price. Anythin beyond is too much for music device. There are too many home audio components that are more important.

Don;t understand...

[Catbeller]

I don't understand how you interpreted my statement as anti-1394?

I have done my homework on Firewire, and am an active proponent. I am cranked, as my post indicated, that this company bows towards Intel and ignores 1394's superiority.

I shall continue opening mouth... when you open yours, keep an eye on where your foot is headed.

Re:Don;t understand...

[jagos]

he wasn't replying to you....
he was replying to the anti-1394 ac who replied to you.

Re:Don;t understand...

[kzharv]

perhaps browsing at 0 or -1 would shed some light on the subject
Above poster was not replying to you.

Re:Don;t understand...

[Catbeller]

Um, okay, sorry 'bout dat.

Add cell phone capability...

[httpamphibio.us]

Then you'd have a really worthwhile device. Great that it can record... finally!

Obligatory "iPod Killer" posts

[phloda]

• Dude, you've got USB 2.0!
• Man, this is going to be the iPod killer. Apple should cash out and return the proceeds to stockholders.
• Check out the refined interface (more buttons!) and high quality plastique!

Yawn...

[Anonymous Coward]

If all USB 2 can do is keep pace with Firewire 1, then I am not interested. I also have read Firewire still kicks USB2's ass in real world tests. Anyone else see that?

Ogg Vorbis support...

[Anonymous Coward]

... would make this an awesome device!

Sets the standard? I thought the iPod did!

[Anonymous Coward]

Jim Collier, President and COO of e.Digital said, "The Odyssey 1000 sets the standard by which all other portable entertainment products will now be judged."

Please. The iPod was first, and set a standard that still has not been beat. This is a PC quality device. Not up to the Apple quality.

I would rather have the iPod...

Complete rip off of iPod design

[Wonderkid]

e.Digital have got to be mad. The similarities between their device and the iPod show complete lack of vision: a) Position of screen and controls. b) Circular layout of controls. c) User interface design. d) Actual shape of device. (Less of an issue.) If Apple have registered the design, they will have a good case against e.Digital. The spec of the device is good, and hopefully Apple will add a radio and recording to the next iPod(s).

iPod..

[Anonymous Coward]

Since a new iPod is going to be released next month with Windows support built in, why the hell would anyone buy this ripoff?

umm..

[spaggot]

in case you hadn't heard, apple's new line of iPods support both firewire and windows me and up. it comes in three sizes: 5gb, 10gb, and 20gb. all with firewire, a lithium-polymer battery. and it's the real thing, not a cheap knockoff. http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

If looks were the only thing

[theolein]

I would buy this odyssey gadget. I love it's looks. It seems to have some good features as well. Wonder what the price tage will be?

Cancel what I said above

[theolein]

Just read the post about eDigital's scam record. No way.

BOFH Says

[Anonymous Coward]

You want to do what >?*(U*(&*((! ! !
Run a fucking wireless Netbeui connection, thus spewing packets across the network , and then using it as a Samba storage device ?

You will be real popular with the rest of the wireless network, as the speed will drop dramatically. In order so you can do what exactly ? share your kiddy MP3s with people.

Better hope people are not trying to some work god forbid. If you entered my office I would arrainge for a nasty accident with a Lift and your Linux device.

Not really

[Mr_Silver]

Except for the choice of OS, looks pretty sweet

Ignoring the first part, it doesn't look sweet at all. Lets just ignore all the specs and just look at the thing.

Now I don't know about anyone else, but if I'm going to fork out over 300 UKP for a product, I damn well want it to actually look like it's worth that amount.

The Treo 15 looks like it was made by Fisher Price. Quite frankly it looks revolting.

The Odyssey 100 looks like a iPod. Well sort of. Horrific pink lettering, four buttons and what looks like some sort of jog dial in the middle. Also it looks like it's made from cheap plastic.

I'm sorry that's not an iPod competitor. As someone else put it, it's a cheap knock-off from a company that can't design a good looking product to save their life.

I would still buy the iPod

[g_braad]

The iPod uses a ARM based decoder which is completely reprogrammable... the iPod can be used for theft (read the posting on slashdot.org) and you can boot your Mac from it using the firewire link (excellent backup)...

No PC iPod alternative needed - it works on PC...

[pev]

Sorry to break it to you guys (does no-one keep up
with news outside of Slashdot? At the latest
WWDC, Jobs announced that the new iPod will work
with PC's, using a version of MusicMatch Jukebox.
Yes, you too can use the original and cutest
machine. Check the Apple Web Page

"Looks like an iPod"

[apc]

Yeah, it looks exactly like an iPod in different colors, and I guarantee you that if this product isn't vaporware and it ships that they'll have a massive suit on their hands for violation of Apple's no doubt inconsiderable amount of intellectual property connected to the iPod's design (Trademarks and perhaps even design patents).

This makes me think it's vaporware, perhaps part of the stock scheme mentioned in another thread-- no legit company would be so utterly stupid in opening themselves up to suit. Even eMachines made a few vague attempts in their design to look only sort of like an iMac.

IAAL, though this is only my personal opinion and shouldn't be relied on for actual legal advice.

And surely you listen too al that music

[jotaeleemeese]

Every week.

It sounds like few people really NEED that many GBytes...

Hear that?

[MacGod]

Hear that sound? That's the sound of Steve Jobs calling his lawyers!

Amusing statement

[JudgeFurious]

Mac's can't be upgraded?

Do you actually know what a Mac is?

We aren't expecting you to "take up the slack" for us poor Mac users. We're asking you to get off your ass and keep up.

New Apple iPod

[CountBrass]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the new iPod.

20gig, thinner, no moving parts (the controls moved before), carry case, remote control.

Also available is a windows version (basically its integrated with Musimatch).

Best of all, it's cheaper than the old 10gig iPod and I've just ordered one!

http://www.apple.com/ipod/

"Yes Lady Brass, it's a back-up device for all the critical data on my PC." :-)

Does it work with Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone know if this mp3 player is compatible with linux? That is, is this mp3 player a mass storage device (like the Archos Jukebox), or does it use a propriatery protocol? If it is a standard USB mass storage device, who cares what OS it runs, as long as it is stable?

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

RAM buffer size too smal to give 13hr battery life

[patiwat]

The Odyssey 1000 has 16MB of RAM as anti-shock buffer. It claims a 13 hour life from its lithium-polymer battery.

The iPod has 32MB of RAM as anti-schock buffer. It claims a 10 hour life from its lithium-polymer battery.

I don't see how the Odyssey can offer 30% longer battery life if it needs to access the hard disk twice as often. Either it uses some absurdly energy efficient DSPs, offers dramatically less output from its headphone port, uses an ultra-low power consumption LCD, or simply overstates its battery life estimate.

Patiwat Panurach
patiwat@sloan.mit.edu

Music that comes with this gem...

[Anonymous Coward]

"I want to rip off a fruit company, and keep it's lawyers hap-app-pee"

"Cloning Apple Time, Come on! There's a cloning party going on here, throw in a tuner to slow down some of the jeers...."

"You gotta cut loose, footloose, put on your rippin' off shoes, we, cannot see, something unique from our knees..."

This kind of ripoff is just as bad as my lame punny songs...

OGG ogg OGG ogg

[Outland Traveller]

I am not going to spend hundreds of dollars on one of these devices unless it supports my .ogg files!

I suppose I'll be waiting for a while yet, but how hard is it for one of these companies to provide a development environment? These things really ought to be PDAs. Once people can get into the guts of the system, ogg support should be doable.

Heh

[LafinJack]

Shades of Future Power.

I already have this, it's called

[a nanny mouse]

Creative Labs Nomad II MG
Though I only have 64meg of storage.

Re:I already have this, it's called

[CountBrass]

"I already have a Cray, it's called a Commodore 64 though it only has 64k memory and a 6502 processor".

DON'T BE FOOLED BY THESE STOCK BASHERS

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of these comments about EDIG being a scam company are posted by a crew of STOCK BASHERS who know this a volatile daytrading stock and have trying to manipulate it for YEARS.

Ask them if this company is such a scam, how come companys like Intel, Samsung, Toshiba, IBM, Lucent, Fujitsu, Lanier, TI, and Dataplay (go check the PR and partner list at the companys website) have all been suckered in by them? I guess those boneheads at Fortune 100 companys just don't know what they're doing!!!! LOL These bashers are just trying to scare customers away from buying the companys product. Believe me, this product will be for real and the industrial design is by Digitalway, a korean company that manufacture's 30% of the worlds Digital Audio Players.

This company is the preferred reference designer for Dataplay enabled players that will have a big rollout this holiday season, and also has a contract with Fujitsu 10 to provide a telematics system.

Don't believe the bashing! This company is for real, go see for yourself...www.edig.com