Re:Details on Palladium from EFF's Seth Schoen...
on
The Power of Palladium
·
· Score: 2
Good discussion.
There is a difference between disagreeing with someone and responding as such... and moderating as flame or troll.
What I have noticed is that posts frequently are moderated as troll or flame because they are accurate, and that just bugs the hell out of certain people. It's sort of a Ostrich syndrome.
His notes are more technical in nature and he doesn't make much in the way idle speculation, so they tend to disagree with much of the reporting that's shown up on slashdot.
If something goes wrong it usually is "Oh, yeah, I've seen that before... let me show you how to fix it." It's not some sort of realization that it sucks, it's just a realization that complex software tends to be like this.
The same thing tends to happen with commercial Unix market, etc. Perhaps because it isn't a "movement", there isn't any defensiveness about it?
One of the troubles with Linux is that so few people really have good knowledge of it in a complex environment, and whenever you ask some question like... "Ok, I have a Linux server handling LDAP requests for about 3,000 clients. But occasionally it exhibits this behavior..."
You'll get maybe 1 person who has a clue, and 99 people who will say it works fine on their desktop at home.
I've found WinXP to be faster than Win2k, largely because of better memory management so that if you are like me with 512Megs minimum in any given machine, it works faster.
WinXP also has better support for dual monitors, my WinTV card and so on. The improvements to the UI make it much easier to use, and here I mainly mean the improved Start menu.
As far as File find - Go into the preferences for search and select 'change files and folders search behavior' and switch to the advanced mode. I prefer that over the wizard mode, and it is more similar to the Win2k search. You can also turn off the doggy and so forth from there.
Hmm, I didn't notice WinXP requiring any additional disk space than Win2k. Then consider Win2k requires 1 Gig for a basic install when you could install NT4 in under 100 Megs... does that mean NT4 is better?
As far as OSX, no the quote I heard from Jobs is that the new Mac machines sold are being reimaged to remove OSX and reinstall OS9 back on them. This is probably being done by the dealer. I find it curious someone would disagree with this who also claims Win2k is better than WinXP.:)
I'm just curious. Most of the Linux zealots came from the Amiga and OS/2 worlds.
Now they appear to be getting disenchanted with Linux, and now we see a lot of these posts telling how great OSX is.
It appears that we are in the next phase of the cycle. Amiga lost it's luster, as did OS/2, and now Linux falls to the wayside. The zealots have adopted MacOSX as the Next Big Thing.
Re:As a Windows user I'm a bit surprised.
on
A Linux User Goes Back
·
· Score: 1, Flamebait
Having used WinXP since last October, I would have to say you obviously didn't spend much time with it.
It's a considerable improvement over Win2k, and feels much more polished than Win2k ever did.
As far as OS X, it seriously offers no competition. The UI is completely unintuitive and there is little application availability for it. Even jobs has admitted they are having a hard time convincing Mac users to switch as most new Macs are selling with OS9 installed.
Umm, try more like $600-900 for a machine which will make that Mac look slow.
Dell Dimension 2200 loaded up with 256 Megs RAM, 40 gig drive, 17" flat screen CRT... $900 with WinXP, Microsoft Works.
With the stability of a real XP kernel, and plug-n-play that really works, not to mention a UI with intuitive design instead of just being pretty. Why spend more and get less from a Macintosh?
But you may not know ahead of time. When you pay the architect $20,000, maybe none of your friends wants to build a house.
This is absolutely correct.
But now let's look at it from the point of view of the Architect. He has to provide a income for his business, his family and his new car. Now he can go about this many ways.
One way, he can market himself as building the ideal unique home for those of taste. For only $20,000 he will design a custom home that will amaze your friends and make your coworkers envious. It's all custom work, and let's assume he can complete 8 house designs a year this way. So this pulls in $160k in revenue a year.
Or there is the other way, where the architect spends the same amount of effort but designs a good house with a good layout and would appeal to a broader population. He spends a year designing 8 such homes, same as before. But instead of marketing it as unique, he markets them to large scale home development companies across the country. Let's say it's a royalty basis, $200 per home built using the plan.
But in this case, from those 8 plans, he's able to attract 1,000 people as customers per year, all across the country. That's $200k in revenue a year, far more than he received the other way.
Now the free software advocates claim this second method is immoral and unethical. But I have to ask why? From the customer perspective, they got what they wanted... a nicely designed house for a very low cost. From the architect's perspective he got paid for his work, and even made a little extra profit. Next year he uses that profit to hire more people and expand his business.
It's sad, but our (U.S. for me) culture has such a strong desire to strive for awards that we don't do anything without the possibility of a payment of some sort.
This striving for awards is a large part of what makes this country great. It encourages innovation, growth, trying new things, making things better. If instead you get everything handed to you without any effort, you become lazy. This has always been one of the fundamental problems with Communism. That and the corruption because human nature desires one to seek a better life, and the only mechanism for that under Communism was corruption.
I get odd stares on the street if I pick up someone else's trash and throw it in the trash can, like, "You're not being paid to do that; why did you do that? How strange!"
Now this I don't see at all. Perhaps it is the state I live in(Minnesota), but we have still have a strong sense of community and many here donate time and money to worthwhile causes. I see people out on the highways cleaning up all the time.
It's a similar impulse with creating Free Software.
Perhaps. But I don't see very many people advocating that all roads should be cleaned for free, and that anybody who wants to be a paid Janitor is immoral and evil. But that's the viewpoint the Free Software Foundation promotes.
Say I want to build a house a certain way, but there are no pre-existing blueprints for one just the way I want it. So I hire an architect and we work and work and make up exactly what I want and then built it. Does it really detract from my life just because someone else can use the same blueprints, obtained for the cost of duplication, if it just happens to work for them as well?
Let's say the architect cost $20,000.
In your world, one person spends $20,000 and everybody else benefits for free.
Now the other world view is to have 200 people get together and chip in $100 each, and all get to benefit equally from the resulting work. If you get 400 people it's only $50 each.
Are you losing anything in life? I don't know, I guess it all depends on how charitable of a person you are.
Most of the people posting to/. are incapable of critical thinking, they just hate Microsoft for some reason they are incapable of elaborating on intelligently.
I attended the SANS Network Security 2001 conference last fall in San Diego. I didn't initially even want to go, but was pressed into it by management.
I was surprised at the quality of the presentations. I attended Track 5 taught by Jason Fossen, and learned quite a bit that I had not seen before, especially with regards to configuring IIS and PKI.
I went on to complete the GCWN certification, which was also an interesting learning experience. It's one thing to talk about these various ideas, but it's quite another to try to formulate them into a cohesive paper and communicate it to others. I've used a lot of the knowledge from the class and the research I did for my practical to help secure our new desktop images for Windows XP, something that probably wouldn't have happened if I hadn't taken that initiative.
Very worthwhile, and worth every penny. Although I can see where an individual would have a hard time coming up with the cash, as I believe the conference, travel, lodging and so forth resulted in about a $5k reimbursement check. I think if you were in consulting this would be a valuable skill to sell yourself with and make back that $5k pretty quickly.
I am a temporary (student) employee to begin with and I am going back to full-time University in September, so I am not in a 'desperate' situation or anything.
Ahh, that explains a lot.
Out of curiousity, have you offered your concerns to your mentors or any of the other technical staff? Perhaps they can aid in your education by pointing out where you logic is flawed. Don't get me wrong. When I was in college I was a know-it-all as well, still am. But part of the key to life is understanding why a decision is made. Generally it's not just because "all corporate managers are morons."
Good luck with your schooling, but please try to remember the purpose of an internship is for you to gain some experience of how the real world operates and learn from that as well.
Where I work, we are still on NT4 and (thankfully) Office97 so there is no WPA in the system yet.
Weird. We're moving to WinXP and OfficeXP and there is still no WPA in the system. Or didn't you know the corporate edition didn't use that?
the highest brass don't want advice even from their more technically oriented underlings
Perhaps they have advice from their more technically oriented underlings, and you just don't happen to be in that bunch.
Only in 5 years they will feel the noose tightening around their neck and by that point, it will be VERY hard to switch to other platforms
5 years eh?
It's already extremely hard to switch to other platforms, has been for years. Why do you think Microsoft dominates this market?
, even though I expect that Linux will be very advanced by that time in comparison to today.
Weird. Where have i heard that before? Oh yeah, that's right... 5 years ago. Why hasn't it happened yet?
Why is it with Linux that all the promises are just around the corner? Don't you guys realize that the competitors are also improving their products? If you look at the NT4 release in 1996 would you have imagined Windows XP? I know Microsoft was promising the convergence, but nobody expected it would work this well.
It's people like you that give the Linux community a bad name.
It doesn't matter whether Palladium is real or not, or if it's practical or not.
What is important is that the anti-MS sky is falling conspiracy theorists have something to shout about. That's it, nothing more... It doesn't seem to matter to them that not one of their prior predictions has ever come true.
I can assure you that point #2 will get you quickly added to the "Don't invite this kook to parties" list.
Especially if you have someone in the family who is knowledgeable on the issue and understands most of the complaints used by the Linux community towards those plots are nothing more than FUD.
Can you actually say that MS WordXP is much better than the non-WYSIWYG wordprocessor of yesteryear (itself a blast from the past) ?
Considering my experience dates back to Wordstar, I can answer yes to that question. Of course, if you can show me a better way to do tables in Wordstar 1.0 for CP/M besides using | and - characters, it'd be greatly appreciated.
But I have seen monitors explode. Well explode is a strong word, how about a big pop and a burst of smoke?
They were old Zenith 14" EGA monitors built back around '89 or so. We had several dozen of them in a university lab I worked in back in '92-'94 and we'd have one go every month or two. Person would just be sitting there working, and you'd hear the pop and this cloud of smoke would come out the top.
God did that stink.. have to open the windows and air out the lab.
But no fires that I recall... was always a bit worried about that but it never happened. We would make sure to shut the monitors off at night before leaving, just in case.
Feel free to pelt them with eggs, because that pales in comparison to their attempts to spread FUD and eventually make our OS illegal or impossible to use.
The statement "eventually make our OS illegal or impossible to use" would qualify as FUD under most definitions, and I find it curious you decided to employ FUD in a message intended to denounce FUD.
This is that part about being mature. If you have legitimate complaints, then voice them. When you start shouting the sky is falling and people look around and see no debris, they're going to relegate you to the "oh, that lunatic again" category and stop listening to you.
I sense a lot of hatred in your message that seems to be distorting your view of reality. Let go of the hatred, for it will only lead you to the dark side of the force.
Out of curiousity, did you include the price of a maintenance agreement with the XServe?
Last I checked Dell's come with a 3 year support agreement, whereas Apple only gives you 90 days. It's another $1,000 to get a somewhat comparable agreement to the Dell.
We have numerous examples within our company where processes that took an hour to execute in the three-tier disconnected fashion were reduced down to under a minute by the proper application of stored procedures.
If you follow your logic, in many cases you *SHOULD* be using stored procedures, because they will decrease the load on your database.
It all depends, and different solutions should be evaluated for their impact to systems as well as end user performance.
Slashdot Mirror
Security hole discovered in Linux handheld
Good discussion.
There is a difference between disagreeing with someone and responding as such... and moderating as flame or troll.
What I have noticed is that posts frequently are moderated as troll or flame because they are accurate, and that just bugs the hell out of certain people. It's sort of a Ostrich syndrome.
No, it's like reporting the sun rose in the west this morning, and calling anybody who claims it rose in the east an apologist.
Apparently Microsoft met with the EFF to discuss Palladium. Mr. Schoen wrote up his notes from the meeting.
His notes are more technical in nature and he doesn't make much in the way idle speculation, so they tend to disagree with much of the reporting that's shown up on slashdot.
Windows users are more pragmatic.
If something goes wrong it usually is "Oh, yeah, I've seen that before... let me show you how to fix it." It's not some sort of realization that it sucks, it's just a realization that complex software tends to be like this.
The same thing tends to happen with commercial Unix market, etc. Perhaps because it isn't a "movement", there isn't any defensiveness about it?
One of the troubles with Linux is that so few people really have good knowledge of it in a complex environment, and whenever you ask some question like... "Ok, I have a Linux server handling LDAP requests for about 3,000 clients. But occasionally it exhibits this behavior..."
You'll get maybe 1 person who has a clue, and 99 people who will say it works fine on their desktop at home.
(And yes, it is absurd, since there are enough Linux users than the population of ex-Amiga and ex-OS/2 users cannot account for a majority of them.)
Only if you are making the absurd claim that all Linux users are zealots.
Although quite honestly, I'm not sure I'm going to argue with you on that point because it may very well be true.
I've found WinXP to be faster than Win2k, largely because of better memory management so that if you are like me with 512Megs minimum in any given machine, it works faster.
:)
WinXP also has better support for dual monitors, my WinTV card and so on. The improvements to the UI make it much easier to use, and here I mainly mean the improved Start menu.
As far as File find - Go into the preferences for search and select 'change files and folders search behavior' and switch to the advanced mode. I prefer that over the wizard mode, and it is more similar to the Win2k search. You can also turn off the doggy and so forth from there.
Hmm, I didn't notice WinXP requiring any additional disk space than Win2k. Then consider Win2k requires 1 Gig for a basic install when you could install NT4 in under 100 Megs... does that mean NT4 is better?
As far as OSX, no the quote I heard from Jobs is that the new Mac machines sold are being reimaged to remove OSX and reinstall OS9 back on them. This is probably being done by the dealer. I find it curious someone would disagree with this who also claims Win2k is better than WinXP.
I'm just curious. Most of the Linux zealots came from the Amiga and OS/2 worlds.
Now they appear to be getting disenchanted with Linux, and now we see a lot of these posts telling how great OSX is.
It appears that we are in the next phase of the cycle. Amiga lost it's luster, as did OS/2, and now Linux falls to the wayside. The zealots have adopted MacOSX as the Next Big Thing.
Having used WinXP since last October, I would have to say you obviously didn't spend much time with it.
It's a considerable improvement over Win2k, and feels much more polished than Win2k ever did.
As far as OS X, it seriously offers no competition. The UI is completely unintuitive and there is little application availability for it. Even jobs has admitted they are having a hard time convincing Mac users to switch as most new Macs are selling with OS9 installed.
Umm, try more like $600-900 for a machine which will make that Mac look slow.
Dell Dimension 2200 loaded up with 256 Megs RAM, 40 gig drive, 17" flat screen CRT... $900 with WinXP, Microsoft Works.
With the stability of a real XP kernel, and plug-n-play that really works, not to mention a UI with intuitive design instead of just being pretty. Why spend more and get less from a Macintosh?
But you may not know ahead of time. When you pay the architect $20,000, maybe none of your friends wants to build a house.
This is absolutely correct.
But now let's look at it from the point of view of the Architect. He has to provide a income for his business, his family and his new car. Now he can go about this many ways.
One way, he can market himself as building the ideal unique home for those of taste. For only $20,000 he will design a custom home that will amaze your friends and make your coworkers envious. It's all custom work, and let's assume he can complete 8 house designs a year this way. So this pulls in $160k in revenue a year.
Or there is the other way, where the architect spends the same amount of effort but designs a good house with a good layout and would appeal to a broader population. He spends a year designing 8 such homes, same as before. But instead of marketing it as unique, he markets them to large scale home development companies across the country. Let's say it's a royalty basis, $200 per home built using the plan.
But in this case, from those 8 plans, he's able to attract 1,000 people as customers per year, all across the country. That's $200k in revenue a year, far more than he received the other way.
Now the free software advocates claim this second method is immoral and unethical. But I have to ask why? From the customer perspective, they got what they wanted... a nicely designed house for a very low cost. From the architect's perspective he got paid for his work, and even made a little extra profit. Next year he uses that profit to hire more people and expand his business.
It's sad, but our (U.S. for me) culture has such a strong desire to strive for awards that we don't do anything without the possibility of a payment of some sort.
This striving for awards is a large part of what makes this country great. It encourages innovation, growth, trying new things, making things better. If instead you get everything handed to you without any effort, you become lazy. This has always been one of the fundamental problems with Communism. That and the corruption because human nature desires one to seek a better life, and the only mechanism for that under Communism was corruption.
I get odd stares on the street if I pick up someone else's trash and throw it in the trash can, like, "You're not being paid to do that; why did you do that? How strange!"
Now this I don't see at all. Perhaps it is the state I live in(Minnesota), but we have still have a strong sense of community and many here donate time and money to worthwhile causes. I see people out on the highways cleaning up all the time.
It's a similar impulse with creating Free Software.
Perhaps. But I don't see very many people advocating that all roads should be cleaned for free, and that anybody who wants to be a paid Janitor is immoral and evil. But that's the viewpoint the Free Software Foundation promotes.
Say I want to build a house a certain way, but there are no pre-existing blueprints for one just the way I want it. So I hire an architect and we work and work and make up exactly what I want and then built it. Does it really detract from my life just because someone else can use the same blueprints, obtained for the cost of duplication, if it just happens to work for them as well?
Let's say the architect cost $20,000.
In your world, one person spends $20,000 and everybody else benefits for free.
Now the other world view is to have 200 people get together and chip in $100 each, and all get to benefit equally from the resulting work. If you get 400 people it's only $50 each.
Are you losing anything in life? I don't know, I guess it all depends on how charitable of a person you are.
It's pretty simple.
/. are incapable of critical thinking, they just hate Microsoft for some reason they are incapable of elaborating on intelligently.
Most of the people posting to
I attended the SANS Network Security 2001 conference last fall in San Diego. I didn't initially even want to go, but was pressed into it by management.
I was surprised at the quality of the presentations. I attended Track 5 taught by Jason Fossen, and learned quite a bit that I had not seen before, especially with regards to configuring IIS and PKI.
I went on to complete the GCWN certification, which was also an interesting learning experience. It's one thing to talk about these various ideas, but it's quite another to try to formulate them into a cohesive paper and communicate it to others. I've used a lot of the knowledge from the class and the research I did for my practical to help secure our new desktop images for Windows XP, something that probably wouldn't have happened if I hadn't taken that initiative.
Very worthwhile, and worth every penny. Although I can see where an individual would have a hard time coming up with the cash, as I believe the conference, travel, lodging and so forth resulted in about a $5k reimbursement check. I think if you were in consulting this would be a valuable skill to sell yourself with and make back that $5k pretty quickly.
I am a temporary (student) employee to begin with and I am going back to full-time University in September, so I am not in a 'desperate' situation or anything.
Ahh, that explains a lot.
Out of curiousity, have you offered your concerns to your mentors or any of the other technical staff? Perhaps they can aid in your education by pointing out where you logic is flawed. Don't get me wrong. When I was in college I was a know-it-all as well, still am. But part of the key to life is understanding why a decision is made. Generally it's not just because "all corporate managers are morons."
Good luck with your schooling, but please try to remember the purpose of an internship is for you to gain some experience of how the real world operates and learn from that as well.
Where I work, we are still on NT4 and (thankfully) Office97 so there is no WPA in the system yet.
Weird. We're moving to WinXP and OfficeXP and there is still no WPA in the system. Or didn't you know the corporate edition didn't use that?
the highest brass don't want advice even from their more technically oriented underlings
Perhaps they have advice from their more technically oriented underlings, and you just don't happen to be in that bunch.
Only in 5 years they will feel the noose tightening around their neck and by that point, it will be VERY hard to switch to other platforms
5 years eh?
It's already extremely hard to switch to other platforms, has been for years. Why do you think Microsoft dominates this market?
, even though I expect that Linux will be very advanced by that time in comparison to today.
Weird. Where have i heard that before? Oh yeah, that's right... 5 years ago. Why hasn't it happened yet?
Why is it with Linux that all the promises are just around the corner? Don't you guys realize that the competitors are also improving their products? If you look at the NT4 release in 1996 would you have imagined Windows XP? I know Microsoft was promising the convergence, but nobody expected it would work this well.
It's people like you that give the Linux community a bad name.
Ok, I don't think you are quite getting it.
It doesn't matter whether Palladium is real or not, or if it's practical or not.
What is important is that the anti-MS sky is falling conspiracy theorists have something to shout about. That's it, nothing more... It doesn't seem to matter to them that not one of their prior predictions has ever come true.
I can assure you that point #2 will get you quickly added to the "Don't invite this kook to parties" list.
Especially if you have someone in the family who is knowledgeable on the issue and understands most of the complaints used by the Linux community towards those plots are nothing more than FUD.
Can you actually say that MS WordXP is much better than the non-WYSIWYG wordprocessor of yesteryear (itself a blast from the past) ?
Considering my experience dates back to Wordstar, I can answer yes to that question. Of course, if you can show me a better way to do tables in Wordstar 1.0 for CP/M besides using | and - characters, it'd be greatly appreciated.
I've never seen a computer spontaneously combust.
But I have seen monitors explode. Well explode is a strong word, how about a big pop and a burst of smoke?
They were old Zenith 14" EGA monitors built back around '89 or so. We had several dozen of them in a university lab I worked in back in '92-'94 and we'd have one go every month or two. Person would just be sitting there working, and you'd hear the pop and this cloud of smoke would come out the top.
God did that stink.. have to open the windows and air out the lab.
But no fires that I recall... was always a bit worried about that but it never happened. We would make sure to shut the monitors off at night before leaving, just in case.
At least you labeled your FUD correctly and honestly. :-)
Feel free to pelt them with eggs, because that pales in comparison to their attempts to spread FUD and eventually make our OS illegal or impossible to use.
The statement "eventually make our OS illegal or impossible to use" would qualify as FUD under most definitions, and I find it curious you decided to employ FUD in a message intended to denounce FUD.
This is that part about being mature. If you have legitimate complaints, then voice them. When you start shouting the sky is falling and people look around and see no debris, they're going to relegate you to the "oh, that lunatic again" category and stop listening to you.
I sense a lot of hatred in your message that seems to be distorting your view of reality. Let go of the hatred, for it will only lead you to the dark side of the force.
Out of curiousity, did you include the price of a maintenance agreement with the XServe?
Last I checked Dell's come with a 3 year support agreement, whereas Apple only gives you 90 days. It's another $1,000 to get a somewhat comparable agreement to the Dell.
We have numerous examples within our company where processes that took an hour to execute in the three-tier disconnected fashion were reduced down to under a minute by the proper application of stored procedures.
If you follow your logic, in many cases you *SHOULD* be using stored procedures, because they will decrease the load on your database.
It all depends, and different solutions should be evaluated for their impact to systems as well as end user performance.
The main thing is to validate user input so you don't allow your SQL code to be manipulated. Using parameterized SQL is also a good practice.
I don't have a good book to recommend. I just ordered this one, which looked good from the description, but I haven't received it yet.
Quality Web Systems: Performance, Security, and Usability