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MS Passport and... Visa
HeUnique writes "Well, people have seen it coming. According to this story Microsoft is extending the Passport authentication system to process Credit card payment (currently: Visa and MasterCard) through a deal with Arcot Systems. Of course, with the ever-changing privacy terms that some companies keep changing without notifying their user - it won't take much long until they'll take your credit cards info for 'verification' and who knows what they'll do with it.. sigh.."
In a nutshell: "Microsoft and Arcot plan to offer, later this fall, a service that will let banks require computer users to type in their Passport username and password to authenticate Visa or MasterCard credit cards." Take the word "require" in that sentence with a grain of salt, I guess. Favorite quote: "People will start trusting the system now that it's linked to credit cards."
Sure.
Isnt it about time call up tyler durden to take out the credit card buildings thus destroying creditcard debt for america.... WAIT we got microsoft the next best thing, Tyler uses explosives and MS uses security holes!!
"All I can tell the "lesser of two evils" folks is that if they keep voting for evil, they'll keep getting evil."-Lp.org
Are we just crazy now?
Ignorant?
I will never associate my creditcards with anything microsoft.
I dont even care if they start making wallets!
EOU
No, they do inform us of changes, as they are often required to do so by laws of various states...Trouble is, they're allowed to change them and tell us later, by 4th class snail mail, taking 2-3 weeks to get to us, by which time its too late to re-file a complaint or a protest before they've already sold our info off.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
Of course, any real web business would have to be insane to limit its clientele to Passport account holders only. Note how Microsoft has 14 million registered users of Passport (how many just for MS Messenger?). Now note how many people on the net - approximately 400 million? So do you see Amazon saying that only 3% of the net can buy their books? Nope, didn't think so.
Which means that if you are one of the people whose bank decides to "pay" Microsoft for this "service", you will be "forced" to get a Passport account.
It's a great move for Microsoft - they will be getting paid by third parties for the privilege of forcing customers into the MS system. This is similar to me paying somebody to let me force visitors go to their site.
Ñ'
....If you had to use a Microsoft Passport to buy add-free pages on slashdot....
Quote: "It's good for Microsoft because up until now, no one stood behind the authenticity of the (Passport) identities. You can register as easily as 'Donald Duck' as you can with your real name," Litan said. "Now (Passport users) are linked to credit card companies. There is going to be a bank or credit card issuer standing behind the identity."
So... how, again, does this magically insure that the credit card isn't stolen?
Linux Redhat: $59
AOL Account: $20 a month
Contribution to OSS fund: $1000
Charging it to Bill Gates Credit Card: Priceless
There are some rights money can't buy.
For everything else, there's Microsoft Passport.
Once you got their credit card number, you got their money.
M$102
If you got their passport, you don't need their credit card number.
***Quis custodiet ipsos custodes***
Favorite quote: "People will start trusting the system now that it's linked to credit cards." Sure.
Before we start railing MS about bugs, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Anywho, its not the hacking to get the password I'm worried about. Most people don't know how to make a good password, and most are easily guessable.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Trust and credit card are two words of which I am highly suspicious being in the same sentence.
---
I'm tired of waltzing for pancakes. -- Gwen Mezzrow
Karma: Excellent Birds (mostly as a result of listening to Laurie Anderson)
"...You can register as easily as 'Donald Duck' as you can with your real name," Litan said.
ummm... actually, Donaldduck is taken, so you have to use, donaldduck141964 or 1donald2duck3530.
I think I would be hesitant to let MS put all my info in one nice little cookie jar, seeing as only last year Hotmail (part of the Passport) was cracked, and millions of passwords were leaked out. (One of mine, ugh!) Its going to be a while before I truly trust any large scale application/system with my real Information...
Blog..
"CPU's Don't make mistakes....They just miss a few cycles sometimes..."
Thank goodness I applied for my AmEx yesterday.
something that would make it more convenient to shop on the net?
the nerve of microsoft!
somebody get the DOJ on them now!
SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
I wouldn't trust OSS/FS (e.g. Linux -oriented) businesses to get involved in this though. When these guys reach a descent position (in a any aspect, from OS to community and services) and stop eating other's leftovers, then I might take a look at it.
It is sad how so many anti-Microsoft lusers (isn't that Linux users) bash Microsoft at any time. Tell you that. Once the settlement is over, then it's Microsoft's turn.
Does the credit card company verify the validity of your number/name/exp. date combination or does Microsoft? Since the answer is the credit card company, as far as I know, why does Microsoft have its hand in it? I would say pasport does a good job verifying the creator of the nick is the user of the nick, provided you supply a good password, but how does this keep illegal users from creating a passport identity to accompany a credit card and use that identity for purchase verification? Is Microsoft going to know your credit card information to cross with the name on the passport account? I guess this means no more Name M Last of 12345 Road Ex. City, St. 12345. Regardless, this won't look good for Microsoft's anti-trust case, for sure.
I haven't posted in so long, my sig is out of date.
I'm really wondering when MS is going to buy a large content provider and force Passport upon us. eBay, or Amazon. They're both in the red, so should be purchaseable for a giant like MS.
I've really wondered many times why MS doesn't drop it's dollar weight on passport.. Compared to the XBox, they've invested practically nothing in passport !
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
Many companies have their own branded credit cards. I wonder how many people here carry VISA / Mastercard / Amex?
If anyone doesnt like what these companies are doing, there is always an alternative.
People use credit cards because the massive lapses in security are never properly publicised and also, whenever someone steals from their card, they get the money refunded.
Basically, they have nothing to loose, and like I said, if they want privacy, there are many ways to achieve this, PrivateBuy being just one.
ATH0 Bitcoin: 1DnwFLXczVZV8kLJbMYoheUrpqHesjxrSi
According to research firm Gartner, the service has about 14 million registered users.
<sigh> I have to wonder if they're including the hotmail users in this number, since signing up for passport and hotmail are linked. If so, this number is hugely overinflated...the number of people actively using passport is way smaller. Too bad, companies may read this and decide it's a great way to reach a large audience.
--trb
Any bank which requires me to have a Passport account won't get my business. The one thing about capitalism is that you -can- force unwanted business to end, simply by going to their competitors.
... the other difference is that they're a monopoly.
Of course, people are going to say that we don't want the RIAA/MPAA/??AA/etc but as a matter of fact, general society does, and we -do- still support them (by seeing movies, buying cds, etc)
OTOH, no bank has a monopoly. As soon as Passport gets picked again, and credit cards numbers are out, people won't use it, and will demand a different method. (Note: viruses on desktop computers don't matter to people, because the general public doesn't store crucial data on their home computers) --
As soon as people start demanding non-Passport methods of authentication, banks -will- provide.
I think I would be hesitant to let MS put all my info in one nice little cookie jar, seeing as only last year Hotmail (part of the Passport) was cracked, and millions of passwords were leaked out. (One of mine, ugh!) Its going to be a while before I truly trust any large scale application/system with my real Information...
Blog..
"CPU's Don't make mistakes....They just miss a few cycles sometimes..."
If this system won't turn out to be so secure, who will take responsibility for 'stolen money'?
:(
I won't care if anyone 0wns my hotmail account, and it's pretty hard still to express server downtime in dollars or euros, but money loss through cracked passport/creditcard systems will be. Who's going to take the responsibility if that happens?
Visa, MS, or, most likely, the owner of the creditcard?
Guess I'll go back to paying in hard cash once more
So how many steps is Microsoft away from opening "Microsoft Bank"?
This Windows XP (tm) installation does not match the hardware profile recorded at activation. Press "OK" to charge credit card on file with Passport $199.99 for new Windows XP (tm) lisence. Press "Cancel" to remove the unauthorised copy of Windows XP (tm) from your system.
Ñ'
Microsoft has always offered an option for people to store their credit card information on Passport, but only 14 percent of Passport users did, because they didn't feel the system was secure enough, Litan said.
"People will start trusting the system now that it's linked to credit cards and has protection by Visa and MasterCard," Litan said.
I don't understand, is Litan saying that because Microsoft struck a business deal with Visa and Mastercard people all of a sudden feel safe? I don't think I agree with Litan on this one.
Your mammas flamebait.
AOL used a trick similar to this back in the day (which is why I stuck with my good ol' PPP dialup) where in order to get the free hours you had to give them a credit card number for "verification". Of course, once your free hours ran out, they just started charging you. (Do they still do this?)
Why do I get the feeling that Microsoft will probably not be more honest than AOL when it comes to making sure that your credit card is only used to buy things when you actually want to buy them:
"I've noticed that you're not running Windows XP! Don't click on 'cancel' to decline acceptance of the purchace of a new copy of Windows XP, which will be automatically installed when you accept this offer."
The fact of the matter is that merchants aren't going to want to put any hurdles between the customer and buying something. They won't require passport because it's just one more thing that MIGHT cause a consumer to go elsewhere. Many may offer passport, and there may be some sort of incentives attached to this, but they won't require it.
If most sites started requiring passport for some reason (credit card processor mandate?), I'd find myself showing up at physical stores once again.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Please explain why. I'm sure you thought you were quite the wit, but your post actually made no sense nor was in the least bit funny. Except for those choosing to laugh at you.
Why in God's name would I trust a company that changed its privacy policy overnight, much to the chagrin of millions of people worldwide (Hotmail.com)? Why would I trust a company that surreptitiously modified the EULA of their _media player_ to include consent to modify the DRM / OS it runs on?
I trust my VISA (and credit card companies in general), because they tend to work in my interest and take care of me when I have bonafide problems with unauthorized usage and such. I have zero trust in Microsoft, a company that has systematically undermined my digital rights on a regular basis without apparent consideration of what I want. It may be "good for business", but it's not good for me.
That being said, I plan on reformatting my Win2k boxes at home this weekend and uninstalling the Media Player. I'll also be removing the "Automatic Updates" feature they added to their "Windows Update" site recently -- I don't trust them not to modify my preferences there, either.
... for "verfication purposes", deserves whatever happens to them.
11 Then I saw another beast which rose out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon.
12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.
13 It works great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in the sight of men;
14 and by the signs which it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast, it deceives those who dwell on earth, bidding them make an image for the beast which was wounded by the sword and yet lived;
15 and it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast so that the image of the beast should even speak, and to cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.
16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,
17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.
18 This calls for wisdom: let him who has understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty-six.
Sounds like a marriage between Microsoft and Visa to me. In order to order, you have to bear the mark of the beast.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
In Denmark some of the major telecompanies have just released a method where you can pay with your mobile number. In this case you register your credit card to your mobile phone. When you want to do a purchase, you type in the mobile number (more easy to remember), and the system verifies it by sending a SMS to you phone that you'll need to verify by typing in a pin-code.
Now this is a very secure way of doing business. Of cause no system is 100% secure. But in the same manner as the passport solution, you still need to register your credit card to a database, connected online, that can be contacted by the merchants. Sound similar to me.
Of cause you still have the additional security of the SMS and the pin code and Microsoft don't have the best reputation when it comes to securing their systems. But it still gives time for thought.
-:) Oh no - not again.
www.rednebula.com
Arcot Systems and Arcot Press Release. For those interested.
(Score:5, Not Funny)
It's everywhere you (don't) want (it) to be.
That's everywhere I don't want to be.
In the article it says that MS has always offered the ability for people to place their cards with their MS Passport service, but only a few percentage did because they didn't feel the system was secure enough.
Now, through some weird twist of business and fate MS has mucked up with Visa and miraculously their MS Passport is more secure? That doesn't quite make sense. People still won't place their card with their passport (unless forced) until MS passport is actually more secure. Whether or not Visa is smiling and nodding at MS.
I am just confused as to why this really matters. My visa will never be linked to my MS Passport, and I am certain a lot of other people's won't either.
~ kjrose
The IBM Stellarsphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks... IBM aparently forgot to watch Fight Club
Here's my mail account and password.
...Anything to help you combat crime.
I swear I'll never use anything but Microsoft licensed software.
You already know where I live, where I shop and who I'm working for.
You have my drivers license and passport ID.
Voila: my credit card and -heck- here's my life savings too.
OK.
You can all have sex with my wife and daughter.
You can do NOTHING on Yahoo's auction site unless you give Yahoo a credit card to "verify your identity". One of the many reasons eBay has complete domination of Yahoo Auctions in America is this fact. Privacy isn't even the biggest issue.... It's the fact that few will stake their credit card on a company who has proven that they will change EULAs in midstream. Remember when Yahoo bought GeoCities, then claimed various ownership rights to all of the content?
What REALLY pisses me off about this? International commerce. It is impossible for me to directly by goods from auctions.yahoo.co.jp (Jahoo Auctions Japan). Yahoo's Wallets are localized, and if I don't have a credit card or account to a Japanese bank, I can't use that yahoo auctions website. I can't even ask a question to the seller! To that website, no member can live outside of Japan....
Some things money can buy. For everything else...
Maybe I'm being stupid here, but what's the diff between Passport and PayPal, and why hasn't PayPal been a crack target?
Also, I had no idea 165 MILLION people were already using Passport - I suppose my OS hasn't asked me enough times to sign up for it until I break under the strain...
So, does this mean that my wife, Jamie, will be denied a "Passport Wallet".... With the constant barrage of credit card mail sent to someone here named "Jamike", I've got to wonder how well these guys are organized.
I'll be worried when they ask my cat, Griffin, to sign up for a credit card. I used her name to sign up for my wife's AOL, so it's only a matter of time.....
t won't take much long until they'll take your credit cards info for 'verification' and who knows what they'll do with it.. sigh..
:)
Heh, like porn sites dont do EXACTLY this already
Donald Duck is trademarked for an infinite period of time thanks to our copyright laws, so no one can ever use the identity Donald Duck. Donald Duck is probably one of the few "people" who has no worry about his identity being stolen out of the Passport database for he has a whole army of Disney lawyers to protect him. His name is probably also protected via Microsoft's DRM software, and it will probably prevent me from even typing this in.
Most good online vendors offer a phone based ordering system. If they require Passport, then call them up and order with a person - it costs them a lot more to pay the order taker than to take the order via web form. Oh yeah, ......... orderrrrrr .......... sloooooowlyyyyyyy ........ and ...... quadrupleeeeee ...... cheeeeeeeeck ....... everythinggggggggg .......
I'll happily take my business elsewhere. Simple as that.
Yeah, but Mozilla users don't!
This needs to be modded up, seriously. Why? Because this is how the unwashed masses think, and MS knows it. But here is what you are not seeing - you may or may not see this "service" as useful, but you should have a CHOICE of whether or not to use it. MS can roll out any service they wish, as long as they don't force people to use it. Get it? They are cutting deals that FORCE you to give up your information to something that has proven to be insecure. I should have the right to decline that service. If you find it useful and more convenient, go right ahead and use it. Maybe you will be one of the lucky ones who doesn't get nailed to the wall when (not if) someone cracks in and steals passports. I can guarantee it won't happen to me, because I won't get a passport account. I'll quit shopping online and get rid of my credit cards before it comes to that.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
What happens to your "choice" when all the bank use Passport? There aren't as many banks as there used to be and an oligopoly is nearly as effective as a monopoly. The RIAA wouldn't be an issue if there were viable music labels that didn't participate in it. An oligopoly can be ad hoc as well without any organizational structure -- I dare say we all object to crazy ATM fees (weren't ATMs supposed to save the bank money?) but we all end up paying them.
I am not a number! I am a man! And don't you
Given the following situation - At the prompting of your bank you sign up for a passport account. At some point Passport is cracked, or flawed, or sold, etc. ad nausium - who's laible for the damage to your credit, for your identity theft, or fraud to your account?
1) The bank for offloading the responsibility of authentication to a private and I'm pretty sure un-insured institution, or
2) Microsoft or the institution hosting the passport authentication information that was cracked (EULA not withstanding - please, let's not go there.).
More importantly, how many hoops will you have to go through on both sides when both sides now have the ability to point the finger until you go away... or lose your house, wife and dog and go on a tri-state killing spree. Or become an all star country singer in cyber-space. Either way, you're screwed.
Ctimes2
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - they just never seem to learn. Not MAYBE if it was OpenBSD doing it, I would laugh a little less. Seriously, you don't want this stuff stolen? DONT GIVE IT OUT. Simple solution there.
'All your bank accounts are belong to us'
If you are unhappy with Micro$oft and its p-A$$-port, like I am, then simply don't use it. If your bank switches you and forces you to use it for online purchases switch to a bank or credit card that does not. Your dollars will tell them what you want. Course if we all just file in like cattle to the slaughter we will have all sorts of things forced down our throats.
create several fake passport accounts search your favorite P2P network for stuff like credit card.xls financial ect, the idiots who share out their entire drive, purchase a laptop, and a wireless card, with a range extender...find an access point and purchase stuff, having it shipped to an indiscrete place with the fake idenity, rinse repeat...
--fetch daddy's blue fright wig, i must be handsome when i release my rage
...that I think I've ever heard of.
I play Asheron's Call (only published by MS, not made by them, BTW.) They changed over their auth system about 8 months ago from the old kludgy Zone auth system to Passport, and it's been downhill ever since. Each game account requires a separate Passport account, and most of the people who are big into the game have at LEAST two accounts (I have 3, myself). There's some inflationary numbers on how many are using Passport for you.
Furthermore, there was a recent rash of folks getting their accounts hacked because folks don't understand password security, and had their Passport e-mail address listed in YaBB and UBB boards centered on the game, used the same password for those boards as they do for their Passport account, and an exploit was discovered allowing folks to actually retrieve that info from those BB packages. If this idea is similar to the concept of the MS Wallet - which I haven't heard anything out of in a while - it's going to be an utter and complete disaster. Credit card fraud will reach new all-time highs, banks will start to go under, cows will fall out of clear blue skies, chaos and destruction will reign, et al.
BUT.
Here's the trick. If it is NOT like Wallet, and your CC info is NOT stored within Passport, then what they're effectively doing is adding a password check to your credit card for online transactions. At least one company is already doing this (witness the "I am Emmit Smith" ads) and it's an incredibly good idea. You register your Passport account with the bank who provided your Credit Card, and in return, your card number becomes totally useless without a password for the purposes of online transactions.
I really don't think that it's such a hot idea to be using PASSPORT for this, but the concept, if the card number isn't stored online BY the password system, is a VERY good one.
Fortunately for me, my credit card is through Digital Federal Credit Union, and I don't think they're too likely to implement it without warning.
You thought that this sig was what you think that I thought you wanted me to think. I think.
According to the article:
Varadarajan said Arcot may also support the Liberty Alliance Project, which seeks to establish a standard for online identification that's an alternative to Microsoft's Passport. Liberty Alliance was created by Microsoft rival Sun Microsystems.
So it looks like we may have something just as evil, but probably more secure and trustworthy. Hopefully Royal Bank will keep on using their system, and not go with either of these.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
Send mail to the President of the Bank. Buy a shere, attend shareholder meeting. Protest at your Bankers Association. Collect signatures. Boycott VISA, Mastercard. Protest at your elected officials.
Protest, scream, withdraw business.
Start up the Say No To M$Passport world-wide campaign.
Start up the Right for M$ Free Lifestyle world-wide campaign.
Demand legislation that would provide you the basic human right to live in dignity without ever being associated with Microsoft.
I handle most of my payments via the net now, but if M$ wants to verify that I own my CC, well then the Title says it all...
Seriously, you have a bigger risk of getting your credit card number stolen when you pay for your dinner at a restaurant with it then by submitting it to a website using SSL. Not only does the waiter/waitress handle your card, but in a lot of places they'll swipe it in a magnetic card reader that sends it unencrytped over a phone line, or worse, they'll use a POS system that stores the entire swipe data in an unencrypted text file on their local server's hard drive... which will later send it out over a phone line unencrypted.
Microsoft is evil, but they aren't stupid. If they screw this up the class action lawsuit that will result would likely put them out of business. Wait, maybe we should all sign up, and get Johnnie Cochran on retainer, before Microsoft hires him and we lose to the Chewbacca defense ;)
I have never in my life been in a situation, where I needed a credit card. Even remote ordering on the WWW is easily done with a postal money order and with far more privacy. Credit cards are, IMHO, incredibly stupid beyond the first month (since you have to pay the bill anyway, you might as well pay right away with cash). And for those geniuses, who tell me "But I don't have the money until my next month's paycheck [for this purchase of something]!"...well, if you don't have the money then you can't afford it!! And if you indebt yourself for quick satisfaction, then you're living beyond your means and you deserve all wrath at 20% interest rate!
If you pension fund has shares in any of the banks then you are 'supporting' the banks.
If you bank has shares in any of the passport banks then you are 'supporting' the passport banks.
If buy anything from any company or anyone that in any way supports those banks then you too are supporting them, that the way that capatilism works, one big giant circle
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
Our records indicate that your use of the song, "I wanna kick some MS ass" is in violation of your current license. Press "OK" to charge the credit card on file with Passport $19.99 to acquire the correct license, or "Cancel" to remove the song from your hard drive. If you choose to remove the song, you will be charged a $10.00 fine for violating the terms of the license. Have a nice day, and thank you for using Microsoft!
Now you can pay for all the porn you get spammed with in your hotmail account with one simple login!
This is soooooo amusing. Anyone who goes for this deserves it,, particularly the mindless M$lop users. I hope they get hacked and cracked to death, go totally broke, then realize just what chumps they are.
Rien n'est plus beau que le creux du 0.
Online shops cannot afford to require anything from their customers. The point in running a shop is selling; selling means to make buying as easy as possible. This is especially true on the Net where the customer can even remain sitting in her chair while leaving the shop and entering the competitor's. So how is this going to work? Successful online shops already know the rules and won't even try to require anything from the customers. Those who try will notice soon.
After all, digital signatures (as a legal concept) and all those esoteric digital payment schemes didn't take off; online shops just don't need them. They are even willing to take some risk if this helps them to gain new customers.
Waiting for their next smart idea ...
http://erichsieht.wordpress.com/category/english/
Solves that problem, at least for myself.
Either COD or no sale..
I wonder how long before they require it
at a brick and mortar storefront..
Man this is scary....
So in the near future if you ever click on the always trust microsoft button. They're going to start using your credit for corporate gains. -Eidolon
- I will not be charged for the change.
- I will see an interest rate increase of 0.59% (not an issue because I pay off in full every month).
- The Smard Card reader has a USB port, and will work with Mac OS (yeah, right. We'll see. Didn't get a chance to ask about Linux because my boss wanted me and I had to hang up)
Whatever you do, if this story bothers you (obviously, it bothered me) make sure your bank understands that you do not want to support a convicted monopolist's attempt to extend its tentacles into the financial services arena.Hmmmm, surrre!
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
Tore up my credit cards about fifteen years ago. Closed my bank and checking accounts too.
"How do you live like that?" people ask me.
Very well, thank you. And I don't have to pay extra for everthing!
This is known as 3D Secure or verified by Visa. Just because MS is offering the client piece (and this is what they do) they do not have access to all your personal information. Here is how it works: When you choose to pay through 3D Secure you enter your credit card # at the merchant, the merchant talks to his acquirer, the acquirer figures out whether the Issuer who gave you your credit card is enrolled in 3D Secure (by talking to the so-called Visa directory) and then they redirect you to the Issuer of your credit card. Now the Issuer (and last time I checked MS is NOT an Issuer) will have to identify you. This is where Passport comes into play. Passport does the auth piece for you (Kerberos in Passport's case if I am not mistaken) and sends the ticket to the Issuer. The Issuer compares whether the auth piece and the CC number match and generates a response token for the merchant. This response token gets transmitted back to the merchant (by the means of standard passport auth I suppose), the merchant takes this response token and sends it to his merchant acquirer. The merchant acquirer now sends it through the Visa Directory back to the Issuer and the Issuer compares whether this is a replay or whether this is a valid token. If it was a valid token the transaction is authorized. So, bottom line is, Passport is the authentication piece. Whether you trust MS Passport or not is one thing, but they do not get access to your CC data. And by hijacking a passport you still cannot go shopping on behalf of the account owner. Check your facts guys.
Remember, you have to *SIGN* to purchase something with a credit card - it'd be an incredibly convenient idea for MS if they stick an EULA on a bill and say "if you sign this credit card bill you agree to the EULA".
Any thoughts?
Their perspective here.
When the year reads 5025 I will use passport. Until then, I won't use any credit card that uses passport for anything.
"People will start trusting the system now that it's linked to credit cards and has protection by Visa and MasterCard," Litan said.
Why would I want to thrust the "system" as a whole just because my credit card purchases are being validated by Visa?
"Varadarajan said Arcot may also support the Liberty Alliance Project, which seeks to establish a standard for online identification that's an alternative to Microsoft's Passport. Liberty Alliance was created by Microsoft rival Sun Microsystems."
Oh, they "may" support the Liberty Alliance Project. Do you mean if Microsoft doesn't object?
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Credit unions are the way to go. I'd never go back to a bank, not with all of their ridiculous fees.
As for credit cards, they don't charge you for *your* money they charge you for the use of *their* money. Pay your balance in full every month and the credit card company never gets a dime from you. Of course, this is assuming you don't have an annual fee with your credit card. If you currently pay an annual fee, drop your card immediately and find a new one. It pays to be an informed consumer.
I'd suggest you don't use Slashdot as your only news source, or you will suffer permanent brain damage.
I discovered recently that hotmail and, in fact, all passport sites are nolonger case sensitive when it comes to passwords.
This rather bothers me.
It used to be that I had to use the proper case to login. Somewhere along the way, microsoft did something to change my password (which I had assumed was stored encrypted) to make case insensitive.
comment directly in my journal
"Windows has detected that you have installed a new mouse. Please reboot this machine for changes to take effect and relicensing charges to be applied to your Passport account."
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
I have heard that it is extremely easy (or at least used to be) to crack passport accounts. See here. With MS' track record for system security, I wonder why companies would be willing to be involved in this sort of activity. If my bank made me use a passport account I would have to close my account (I know it said it was an option, but smaller banks may want to use this exclusively to save money on creating their own verification systems?).
"People will start trusting the system now that it's linked to credit cards."..... trusting it less..
The truth is, outside of the slashdot and SOME of the technical community, many computer users don't know enough NOT to trust the system. Its like all those people who trust their employers (think enron), car manufacturers (remember Fords / Firestones exploding tires), cable companies (monoploies in many cases), phone companies, electric companies (think PGE in CA) etc.. they don't know any better till they get screwed by one (or all) of these companies...
Only 'flamers' flame!
That's all in the future, however. I'm sure M$ will make the transition to where nothing but IE TX (Total eXtortion). We don't buy much over the web now, so we won't miss much when a few stupid sites decide they don't want our money. Eventually, as Visa put's all it's weight behind this and closes down other competitors it will start to feel painful. Then it will hurt to have the company site say, IE only. Our bank's site is already M$ encumbered, but still works with Netscape 4.7. Soon enough, I'm sure that won't be the case. All M$ has to do is flick a switch in server crap they sell my bank. At that time, our big fat national bank credit card company might use this as an advantage to destroy our local bank and try to get us to direct deposit my pay check to them, as they might not have that switch flipped.
All maner of convinence will be lost, but I will not trust a M$ computer on my network much less let it manipulate my money.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Too bad this was in the other article's posts, otherwise you may have had an original idea.
TodayTM BillyJoelTM GoogleTMd for StitchTMes due to WindowsTM while RollerbladeTMing with an AppleTM and a PopsicleTM
If you are stupid enough to use credit cards, the banks are robbing you blind. With passport, any script kiddie will be able to join in on the robbery. Use cash.
How ya like dat?
I think you'll also find that a lot of people didn't store their credit card details because they saw no need for the system to have it. I've lost count of the number of places i've signed up and they want some personal details that they definately do not need.
You don't just go hand out your credit card number to anyone who asks for it. Well I don't anyway.
Subnote: Having said that, porn sites don't seem to have any problem with people giving their credit card details over for a "free" trial. Mind you, then they start getting billed for it and can't get it stopped. So maybe there are mugs out there.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
I mean, after all, a slew of breakins already.... it's not a very secure system.
WebMaster:
BinFeeds
XXX Thumbnailed Image Newsgroups but
Here's a part of what mine, Vancity, gave back to me:
If there are people like me there, they would be relieved to use a post like mine citing the previous security issues that Microsoft has had to the person who may decide that passport-only is a good idea.
Be preemptive. It's easier.
I think there are two reasons why people should be worried:
.Net Passports are just too easy to hack. If this thing means people will be able to but things from your credit card as soon as they know your .Net password, the world will end.
1)
2) This is another step MS are taking towards world domination. Controlling the entire IT market is enough, but once they start managing our money, it will get even worse
Everything sucks except musicandstuff
New Software installation complete... Scanning system resources... Credit card number found :)...
Network connection found...
Accessing Microsoft passport...
Purchasing new Microsoft products please wait...
You don't have a job programming in the real world. Disagree with Microsoft all you want, but just closing your eyes and pretending that the 900 pound gorilla in the corner just doesn't matter is foolish.
And try not to flaunt your ignorance as a virtue. Passport really has nothing whatsoever to do with an operating system.
Here is my simple solution to MS' latest Passport move:
- Find what I want online, and then pick up the telephone and dial the toll-free number to order.
Problem solved. Passport dies a slow and embarassing death.I'm a 2000 man.
How can that be? Then how am I safe if someone steals my identity and creates an MSN account, not that I would anyway, before me? It makes no sence at all. It would make more hassle I would think. Espicially if you were to freeze your account. Would you online status be frozen also? What if you don't want a CC anymore?
If you're set to 'always sign me into any passport site' then when you go to a passport site after having earlier checked your hotmail account, you find yourself automatically logged in, whether you actively wanted to use passport there or not. For a long time I visited no passport sites other than hotmail, and it never affected me. Now there are a couple I go to, and at first finding myself automatically logged in as whatever identity's email I happened to check last was really disconcerting. I have several hotmail accounts, but the whole passport thing is based on the assumption of one computer, one person, one identity. I feel like I should be able to be logged in at msdn.microsoft.com using my work/business hotmail account, while still reading email from one of my personal hotmail accounts. Can't do it. Even though they're separate sites, they completely identify you by your passport cookie, so you can only be one 'identity' to all of them. If passport verification starts popping up all over the place, other people will run into this issue too.
> I'll happily take my business elsewhere. Simple as that.
If this becomes a moneymaker for the banks, somehow, then all of them will want to play. After a while, you won't be able to find a bank that doesn't "offer" this service. Simple as that.
Time to start checking out the local credit unions, methinks..
Neither you, nor any other person I have ever met, will switch your bank b/c they sign up with passport. You chose your bank because it has convenient atm's, is close to your work or business, has the right hours, or whatever. NOBODY will ever be so upset by this that they'll switch to a bank whose atm's they can't get to, that's closed by the time they get off work, etc.
So yeah, as soon as you and all the other smart mouths on here go out and demand no riaa, no mpaa, no passport etc - the rest of the world will still fucking ignore you.
Umm.. no, that wouldn't make any sense. Use Passport to buy.. the things money can't buy? No, there are something things money can't buy.. for everything else [the things money CAN buy], there's Passport/Mastercard..
Yes, but the Passport account is "free"...so Amazon or other sites would simply coerce users to sign up for their "free" passport accounts.
I wish I could speak for everybody, but I can't, so I'll just speak for myself.
I hate websites that say you need to "establish" an account on their website. It doesn't carry the Microsoft logo now, and even if it does soon, it still won't get my business. I know that if I make an "account," my name, address, phone number, credit card information, and other private information is stored in a place that puts its privacy at risk, either by being hacked or by (more likely) it being sold to other parties. If I absolutely have to buy what I need from that website, I always call their sales line and demand that if they want my business, they won't save the information I give them. Though I cannot honestly say that they stick to their promise on the phone, I trust them if they say that they'll honor my request.
The same thing goes for PayPal. I will not touch their service, because I absolutely refuse to have my credit card number in the hands of a third-party company that, according to its contract, has the authority to manipulate it as they wish. Sorry, but I am not about to be put in a position where someone has a hold of me by the balls. If Microsoft says that they need my credit card number if I am to purchase items online, I'll tell them (as well as Amazon / eBay / NewEgg / etc) that they just lost business.
For those people who think that Microsoft is going to coerce "everyone" to using Passport, you're downright blind. Websites don't limit their customers to paying with only one company's credit card, and they certainly don't offer only one method of payment period. Even if Microsoft does take over the online payment industry, there's one payment that won't go away: Money Order and Snail Mail. And I promise you, I'd rather wait an extra 7 days for a package rather than know that my credit card information is unsafe.
"I will not trust a M$ computer on my network much less let it manipulate my money"
Dood, fucking grow up.
When it first came out, I signed up using mostly bogus info and my Yahoo id.
Recently, while using Monster.com (and being unable to recall my old account info based on a former Prodigy address), Monster asked me to 'link' to my Passport account. I thought i'd be able to avoid Yet Another Registration Process by using Passport.
Each screen on the passport signon took ~a full minute to render. Trying a few passwords took 5 minutes of my life away.
Once I did sign onto Passport and 'link' it to Monster, I *still* needed to register with Monster:
What's the point? Why was I asked to link my Passport account if it didn't get me in right away?
Wouldn't Monster have remembered me next time with a cookie anyway?
This is beyond security and megopolies; this is about *usability* where MSFT, in theory, 'has an edge.' It was not very usable, and completely without utility.
Nope, no sig
I don't think that this issue warrants a sensationalist headline like this.
.NET is like .MSN all over again. MSN does ok, but I got the idea that they were hoping MSN would be the 'internet killer'. Neither MSN nor AOL managed to win the title of 'King of the Net', though both do okay, depite many 'partner' announcements and billions and billions spent.
So one big Empire (Microsoft) makes a deal with another big Empire(Visa), er, not really with Visa, but with the company that writes software for Visa to make software that will link their authentication application (Passport) with a financial vehicle (money).
I still don't have an MS-Passport account, partly because I don't like their terms of service, but mostly because I have no use for it. However, I don't need to equate their attempts to find uses for their technology with a slap in the face for all of mankind.
Anyone remember "Microsoft At Work"?
This was a great example of putting out a white paper on how they were gonna put MS in every embedded device in the world, including all fax machines, tv's, etc. How many TVs do you know that run windows today?
How about "Microsoft DNA"?
"Building a Digital_Nervous_System", omigod, a technology that is so uber, it requires no specific software, but if you install NT and SQL Server, shucks, yer most of the way there. Trust us.
Two words: "Microsoft Bob"
I don't use IIS as a web server, nor Exchange as an email server, and my network hasn't become unglued.
I have both a Visa and MasterCard, and either will work most everywhere, because if either limit their markets in any way (ie, only working with MS software, browsers, etc.) they are only limiting their own business opportunities. They know this. A market with no competition is no market.
The point is, if this is a good idea, it will take off, and others that smell the money will compete. If they use patents or market power to attempt to control our use of it, the less restrictive competition will flourish...or...like other great Microsoftian Bob ideas, it will die on the vine.
If you've used up your free hours, shouldn't you then start paying? You didn't say anything about cancelling, so it looks valid to me.
Everyone knows that you need a valid passport before you can get your visa.
That he said his wife paid all his bills. Doesn't look like he actually has ANY choice does he? And it's not MS taking it away. It's his horrible, evil, stupid wife who likes commercial crap sites that spam her and shiznit like that. It's also his bank's choice, not his, or even hers.
It has always been easier to have your credit card information stolen by a waiter or cashier, or especially over the phone, than online. YOU MIGHT WAKE THE FUCK UP AND NOTICE THAT THIS ADDS A LAYER OF SECURITY TO THE PROCESS! Now if someone steals your credit card numbers, they can still use it anywhere over the phone or on sites that don't require passport verification, but on sites that do require passport verification they won't be able to use it unless they've also stolen your passport password. This means some fraudulent charges will be bloced. It adds no ability for someone to actually get your card number, which again is easier to do as a waiter or cashier.
My sentiments exactly.
IN TEH FUCHAR, LITERSY WLIL EB OPSHANAL!!!!!111
Credit Card companies and merchants have made a lot of effort into making online credit card transactions such as Visa's password program and the unique CC numbers that some provide and of course SSL but is it really that big of a problem or are these efforts really just to encourage hesitant consumers to spend more online?
We've all heard the arguments that it is actually easier for your CC number to be stolen when you use it at a restaurant but how about some cold, hard numbers?
Does any one have some actual figures (or educated guesses) as to how much money the CC companies loose do to internet fraud?
except when you need to get your cash, which is actually what a bank is FOR.
:P
i'm not trolling. just pointing out that a lot of people on here talk the talk of boycotting companies (which is easy), but less than 1% actually walk the walk (which is hard).
you can sign up on msn.bendmeoverandrapemebillgates.bank.com
Let me get this straight...
You're implying that Microsoft's massive attempt to secure a chunk of all web services and transactions over the entire internet by enlisting the help of some of the biggest companies in the world, and in doing so place the financial records of millions of people at no small risk given a repeatedly poor security and privacy track record is comparable at all to a slashcode bug that only existed in CVS?
You're right. You do need to get out more.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
r u 4 real?
can you lynx to your bank account?
do you have more than $50 in your bank account?
i doubt your statement. easy to say 'i did such and such' online, much easier than actually doing it.
if you actually did do this - did your bank laugh in your face when you told them why you were leaving? cuz i totally would. this just is not a market force. more like a market farce.
read my other post:
The future, brought to us by Microsoft...
Any business that requires a passport login can be sure that it won't get any business from me...
If that's a manifesto, so be it. But after the stupid, insulting things they've pulled in this antitrust trial, their arguments about how "national security" would be set at risk if their source code were exposed, and their very clear intention to eventually dominate everything having to do with computers, I see no reason to support them.
M$ requires a "modern" browser like I.E. 4.0 (lol)or greater to sign up for a passport account. If you try to sign up for a hotmail account using konquerer or mozilla you are denied (funny that Mozilla 1.0 being released in the last few months isn't a modern browser.. By that math I.E. 4.0 was released last month??? Of course us Linux users can use Netscape, but how many of us accually do? I personally use mozilla. I laugh at the very idea of allowing M$ to "safeguard" my credit card. Working in IT I see the "secure" passwords my users have. It is going to be incredibly easy for some "bad" people to get the CC #s of a few million people if passport accually flys. Of course with a few Billion dollars behind you, you can cover just about anything up.. Even the theft of a few million credit cards...
:)(smile)
Rule #1 in business:
Don't let ANYONE between you and your customers. If passport sucks and I am trying to buy a book from Amazon -- guess who gets blamed?
Nobody in my circle of aquaintences use banks anymore; it's all credit unions. They are run locally, you can call up the general manager and there are *way* too many of them for any company to try and push passport off on all of them. There is no oligopoly in the banking world.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
Instead of just hanging about here, what we should do is put the squeeze on Visa and MasterCard. Visa and MC holders should hound the damn companies and make it clear they will lose us as customers (card holders) if they are so dumb as to have anything to do with the MS buffoons.
Someone should start a web site, collect names, stuff like that. Make MC and Visa - and all these companies - understand that they cannot do business with MS and will only suffer financially if they try.
That's all we need - a Microsoft mole sent to /. to work on this thread. Oh great. I really love Microsoft.
I already have a plan... I've stolen close to 1000 passport names/logins already, and I'm making a plan to make Microsoft look bad with them >:)
God spoke to me
I wish I was an MS mole, I'd be better paid.
So there is a lot of corporate and government business to be lost if Passport is required by a merchant.
Ooh.. i can just see the security implications in this one. Imagine what would happen if someone managed to write a malicous c#(or any other language here) script that could read the data as entered and redirect it.. That and .Net as is adds up to one helluva security risk. Pretty soon I will be willing to bet that this new method of "authentication" is going to tie directly to Longhorn and Palladium, and DRM, and all that crap. I sincerely believe that Microsoft is trying to turn every windows computer into a card-swipe-register...
We're sorry, your computing license has expired. Please swipe your card for service
NEWS: Dell, HPaq and Microsoft in a revoloutionary change have started adding card-swipe magnetic readers into the keyboards of their Longhorn enabled computers.
I won't be surprised if I get flamed for this but then again, why would MS be so hot on DRM and all of a sudden Palladium, and now this?
Partnership for an idiot free America!
Maybe I'm a little insensive to giant evil companies having my credit card numbers. Yesterday I noticed two charges on a card for renewing two magazine subscriptions. The initial subscriptions were those 'free' subscription offers you get all the time. So, one of these magazines I cancelled 6 months ago. We NEVER gave them our credit card numbers because they were 'free' subscriptions. Somehow they got the credit card number, and decided to renew the magazines for me without asking or informing me. When I called they were nice enough and said they would cancel, refund money, blah blah blah. Fortunately I watch that stuff, and it just happened a couple days ago. I don't like the idea that there's all these crooked assholes doing whatever they want with my money in secret, then when they get caught, they act like it's no big deal. It's like my old friend Chuck (and everybody else) says "it's easier to get forgiveness than to get permission". It's funny when Chuck says it, not when some company I never heard of does it after taking my money. And Microsoft is the LAST company I would trust having anything remotely to do with my money. Here is what I am currently doing; Selling my overpriced house in California, with the proceeds paying off the cars, the credit cards, everything else, and paying cash for a house in Washington state, right in the shadow of Microsoft. This Passport stuff is going to lead to world chaos.
You ban my uagent string from making a passport account, even though I know spoffing it allows me to make it just fine.
You require a passport account to make purchases online. So did you just force every visa user to get a passport account, and thusly use windows?
I hate to say it, but if I ever can't make an online purchase because my uagent string is blocked by my credit card validation, I will probably talk to some higher-ups at my bank explaining how unacceptable this is.
I live in a giant bucket.
The majority of my income comes from online sales. A credit card charge is not valid without a legal signature. Nobody, as of yet, has found a way to legitimize internet trasnactions. Anybody who uses their credit card on the net can cancel their charge, after they receive their merchandise, and the merchant cannot contest this "chargeback". Because they don't have a signature. This is why 20%+ of online business is considered fraud, because valid customers who receive thier merchandise get their money back from your bank automatically.
With the government and VISA/MC dragging their feet and seemingly not even searching for a solution to this problem (well other than hassling online merchants as if it were their fault) we need some way to verify that the card goes with the user... perhaps passport is a step in the right direction.
I will get behind anything that allows me to contest, with the cardholder's bank, a fraudlant refund(chargeback) requested by somebody who received their merchandise.
Actually half of the people on this planet have never set foot in a bank. Some have never even seen a bank and millions more wouldn't be too clear on the very concept.
We are the affluent first world. The one apart from those second (many European Postal Services are also banks for their constituency, like in Belgium,) and third worlds (where they have an annual income equal to the average geek's soft-drinks expenditures,) and China (who play by their own rules,) and Islam (where they just want to buy Kalashnikovs and come to America and Kill Kill Kill.)
Now imagine that you're running a business and somebody's sale techniques immediately reduces your market share by 10% Would you be happy?
Imagine being told that you can reach 100% of your market by print ads, phone, mail (snail & e) and 100% of you market can reach you by walking in, phone, mail (snail & e) but you have to turn away 1 customer in 10.
But it will come to pass. M$ minions will tout their service as the best, most secure thing in the world since nobody can buy a friggin' thing because the server in Redmond has crashed after being cracked by the 11,111,111,111,111 script kiddie trying a new exploit.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Thanks god it won't happen here in Brazil. Our legislation won't allow such a thing. I know that our legislator can be bought (that's why we also have lobbies here) but I'm sure that we'll have a major disaster using Pa$$port before it happens.
So, I don't worry about this.
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
This is the same company that owns Hotmail, that well known porn spamming, personal info relay service.
And you want to give them your CC number?
A guy named Keith Henson responded to a thread joking about about firing Tom Cruise missles at a Scientology compound in California.
He was convicted of making terror threats and had to flee the country before he was sent to prison!
Hell, in CANADA the psychos sicced anti-terrorist police on him. And he is still trying to claim political refugee status so the Canadians don't deport him back to the U.S. to serve his sentence for adding to a joke.
So, careful: perhaps not in this instance, but in future ones, we are not allowed to speak, or joke, if the target is big enough and rich enough and fanatical enough.
(The date: )
August 25, 2006.
(The scene: )
You're sitting at your Sexium XXXIV Jackhammer 3000 THz computer with the built in Digital rights Autojailer hardware (slogan: "We dare you. Just try and play an mp3 - we'll drop a big steel cage over you!"). You are writing a letter to a friend about your summer vacation. Of course, you are using Microsoft Word 1984 running under the Windows 1984 (a.k.a. Palladium) operating system, since it has now become law that you must. The law was part of the "Government for Business Anti Evil-Doer Bill". The Bill and subsequent law were supported and passed unanimously by all branches of government, who are now officially Microsoft employees. All other software has been outlawed because, to quote Floyd "Shill" Bullfeather III, Republican Senator from Microsoft, "if it doesn't make the richest company in the world richer, it must be anti-business and therefore is a tool of terrorists."
You type
"Hello Linus,
we just got back from our summer vacation. The kids really wanted to see Donald Duck"
Suddenly, over your mandatory DRM Borg implants you hear:
"Freeze. Do not move until told to do so. Resistance is futile. Your computer's built-in User-Destruction Sequence has been activated. Authorization: Borg King Gates. Authorization code: 49 20 6F 77 6E 20 65 76 65 72 64 68 69 6E 67 2E. This is your only warning ".
A hideously malevolent looking paperclip with searing bloodshot eyes pops up on the screen and points an M-16 at you. You freeze and say a silent prayer. Sweat beads form on you forehand and you pray that your body does not tremble from the fear, lest it be interpreted as a hostile act.
Over your implants you hear:
"You have attempted to use a copyrighted and MS-DRM protected phrase. Look directly into the retinal scanner."
You look and try not to blink.
"Identity confirmed. Now scanning the Passport data base".
You risk a slight eye twitch to glance at you new MS-DRMCable modem box and see lights flicker and hope that the cable-modem box's operating system (Windows TWD) doesn't crash again. It feels like you heart is beating in your throat and you cannot breath. After a few seconds that seem like a month, you hear:
"User identity confirmed. Royalty payment to Disney Corporation, a subsidiary of Microsoft, has been automatically processed via user's credit card. 3 air miles have been added to your Air Miles account. Note: User must buy food for one week, since user's bank account is dangerously low as a result of the preceding transaction and user's monthly software license fee to Microsoft is due tomorrow. Should payment not go through to Microsoft, well, let's just say that you should re-read the Mandatory Execution clause in subsection 87362671829.2, Part III, of your Passport click-through license agreement (and we express thanks to the RIAA for that idea). You have received your only warning. You may now continue typing."
The paperclip drops its M-16, winks at you and flutters of into the digital ether.
You finally exhale and wipe the sweat from your forehead and your palms. You breathe in slow, deep, measured breaths for several minutes. Finally your pulse rate has slowed to near normal. With trepidation you extend you hands to the keyboard and cautiously begin to type again:
"and Goofy"
and you cringe as you hear:
"Freeze. Do not move until told to do so. Resistance is futile"
You think to yourself:
"Shit, where did I put my pencil"
You then remember that you turned it in with all of your paper (as did all well-behaved citizens), after you got the government notice that gave you 30-days to hand over all non-MS DRM/Passport controlled physical, analog and digital media or face prosecution.
You think to yourself
"Why didn't we see this coming back in 2002?".
There goes this year's Pulitzer.
I meant
"The Plan: Donald Duck Circa 2006"
and
"must not buy groceries".
Why isn't my secretary proof-reading these things?
If you want to see it in action, go to Centiare. If you have any tech questions, send me a private reply at karln@centiare.com. Oh, before I forget:
So, my wife wants to know why I think advertising on the Internet would be a good idea. But first, I should probably explain the family dynamic: she's an Ivy League grad and attorney while I have a UC degree and CPA certificate. Usually, she's the one who is right, so I figure I should probably listen (as if I have a choice).
I figure it makes pretty good economic sense, since many different sites with low CPM rates still get over a million page views per day. Problem is, she replies, there's probably only around 150-200k unique visitors at any of these respective locations, each of whom is triggering around 5-7 page views per person per day.
And besides, she continued, using the Jungean Archetype model to illustrate her point, the target audience is devoted to reason, not emotion. This, I concede, defeats one of my central tenets: applying a test to determine whether a person is Apollonian or Dionysian, left-brain or right-brain, etc. in order to assess the likelihood of downloading Centiare, my cool little cash management/forecasting program for individuals and small businesses.
Centiare quickly and automatically calendarizes projected deposits, payments and running cash balances over any time period selected - the output looks like a spreadsheet. But since transactions are stored in a database, the way it works is through a series of SQL pivot/transformation functions. The results are stored within multiple counter arrays to keep track of time periods, monthly totals, and grand totals. Once the recordset is complete, viola', the whole thing is formatted and printed - the flash report looks really good.
And besides, it's free to try, and only $20 to buy!
To be continued ...Centiare
Help support payment systems without creditcards!
See www.e-gold.com
Call me crazy, but the bible says that near the ending days, you won't be able to buy or sell anything without using the beast's name: replace "beast's name" with "beast's software" and you will see the light.
Soon that passport has "HACK ME" stamps all over it.
Privacy is terrorism.
Yes, truth, in death and taxes. Because the economic crisis here (in Argentina) we citizens discovered that we are usually robbed by the banks emitters of the cards . In a recent investigation report (sorry, just spanish) of the tv program .Doc it was the explained that they do this with fake amounts with strange descriptions (like "charge for reserve of funds"). Normally it was assumed by the users these were administrative charges. But the charges were just an illegal way to increase rates.
"I think this line is mostly filler"
What if someone gets your password lmao?
"With Microsoft, you get Windows. With Linux, you get the full house" - unknown
Secret Commissions
.
Secret Commissions - as long as all these are fully disclosed along with exclusivity agreements, and interchange fees, and none of the dirty linen / recent court case both major credit card co's have been in with Walmart - and if they can lock out Walmart from issuing its own cards..
None of this is designed to halve, or give back to the consumer hefty credit charge fees the issuers slug the merchants with
Apart from the above, any poorly encrypted hash, or salt, will help reveal your CC - see the SQL flaw just released .
As for the credit card prompt - go the the bank, get a few 'extra cards' for web surfing, register, then cancel then straight away. Don't know who will wear this new age churn cost, but the assumption that the freshly registered and validated cc card details have not been revoked 5 minutes later, and then something bought in a different time zone is a deatil these bozos probably have not thought of
just called up my bank and cancelled all my VISA credit cards, so that when a security bug happens and MS VISA blames the people for not securing their card properly and that MS VISA has the highest most secure security in the planet, well i'll just be laughing out loud. Haven't people already know that Microsoft taints everything it touches!
A lot of people don't understand how the VISA system is organized or about it's creator Dee Hock. It's called chaordic business organization--it's like a trillion dollar co-op.
VISA itself is a business owned by no one--it's merely shared information between different banks and financial institutions. Yet VISA itself is an independent business that makes independent profits. "Hmm?" you ask? Ok, here's how it works: "VISA" collects a percentage of all transactions that move through the "VISA" network (almost 1.5 TRILLION dollars). Then, the total "commission", if you will, is equally distributed to each of the banks by VISA. So basically, the more a huge bank makes, the more the little subscriber gets. So of course even the tiniest bank wants to be a VISA person (to get a cut of the action), which increases VISA's (the company who no one knows) market share. You see what I'm getting at now, don't you? It's parasitic in a way, almost viral. Either you are on the bus/bandwagon/gravy train/etc. or off the bus/bandwagon/gravy train/etc.
Anyway, in a nut shell, what this means is that banks get to have a piece of the action of EVERY credit purchase made at ANY STORE that accepts VISA. They don't just move money for free, you know..
Anyway, now you can do it with your debit card, so they have a piece of the action for almost every CHECK purchase made. All of this goes into the banks' pockets.
And now, your computer's operating system will be able to do quick, convenient purchases while the New First Microsoft/Passport Bank, Ltd./all the other banks in the world collect a toll on EVERY ITEM you purchase online. This is just a cheap ploy by Microsoft to get a little more market share. Don't worry; the real enemy here is the BANKS, and you don't even see it.
Cheers.
Cool! Amazing Toys.
I think we have a point. What's the point on adding a single password to validate all transactions with all credit cards (as well as you hotmail login!)?
It's dangerous. For once, stores will have to pay to yet another company for the "service" yet take all costs (in case the password is stolen). And probably will open the door for bigger frauds ("hey, they had the password and credit card number!").
Also, it's really NOT like a signature. In real life you sign the piece of papers, it's you. But a single password is not even nearly as close.
What would be good is to have a really secure way that cards can't be exploited. This aint the solution, yet we'll have a hard time trying to get rid of it after it's proven unsatisfactory.
One time pads could be a solution (ie: kind of digital bill). We need good ideas...
unfinished: (adj.)
nows a wonderful time to be a hacker. you can hack yourself rich using M$ VISA, w00t! WORD.
If I understand the system correctly, there is a surcharge of several percent on CC transactions. However, because of the card companies' agreements with merchants, merchants have to charge CC users the same price as people paying by other means. Merchants have to make the money back somehow, so they raise prices generally a little to cover it. Therefore, everybody who doesn't use a credit card is subsidising the people who are, and making the credit card companies a packet in the process.
In Australia, a government body called the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, responsible for monitoring trade practices laws, is proposing a rule change to disallow "no-surcharge" clauses in card issuer-merchant contracts, so the people who actually use credit card service pay for it.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
<irony>
If you want multiple "personalities" you are either schizofrenic or terorist.
That's why MS is promoting that "one computer, one person, one identity" thingie and is fighting against those who do not like it (i.e. "curing" those shizofrenics and "fighting against" those terorists).
And also that's the reason why they are promoting the idea of every Windows user having Administrators rights: why anybody want to be a regular user mostly and administrator only sometimes? Again, that's schyzofreny or terorism.
</irony>
hany
Slashdot rated your comment as funny. What makes it unfunny is the following:
First, the effort to "verify the identity of online buyers" is something that Verichipalso would like to do, but under your skin.
Second, lest you think that Microsoft and Verichip are unrelated, Microsoft and Digital Angel (another similar device owned by the same company, ADSX) have reached an agreement to use Microsoft MapPoint for GPS mapping.
Based on the previous pattern of Microsoft behavior in other unrelated markets, this is what I see: Microsoft is sidling up to an interesting technology and integrating its efforts in a pseudo-friendly way. Their real objective however is to determine the future marketability of the technology and if there is any, swallow it whole. Look for Microsoft Passport to be integrated with Verichip technology for the ultimate secure user verification, possibly offered exclusively in combination with Palladium.
How do you like them apples? Now, the question is, will Slashdot bury this post?
My heart bleeds for you. Oh woe, my browser window isn't ridiculously wide, what am I to do? Anyway, I thought layout was up to the browser. What about printing it? Should it widen the paper to thirty feet? Layout can't be mandated in the HTML standard.
Because I said something that didn't bash MS (note, it also did NOT praise MS, just said don't ignore them) I am modded as flamebait.
Blow goats moderator
isn't that there aren't hacks around the problem
just that there's a problem
one person one online identity
...that the website is zdnet.com.com?