7days wrote:
"Sharing movies is illegal. If someone shares a movie, they aren't going to buy it."
I realize this is a contentuous point in the argument for/against P2P methods but I am proof positive that this is incorrect. I downloaded Mary Lou Lord tracks long before I actually met her in the subways of Boston, performing, yet every time she has a new CD I buy one from her. I already have the songs, but I'd like to support her effort. I feel a lot better knowing that it's going to her and not some clowns in between. I also listen to progressive trance now because of sharing illegal MP3s....but now I head to the record store and pick up vinyl so I can spin new stuff.
I won't pretend that people don't dl files (movies, songs) to avoid paying for them, but to make it a blanket statement and pass it as fact is just plain incorrect and you should be called on it.
I'll also grant that Slashdot has been screaming to the heavens for precisely this (MPAA going after individuals) so they're hypocritical for complaining about it now. But I don't agree with IP for a myriad of reasons that we could both debate until our heads exploded.
IMO, anything that makes people enjoy their OS more is A Good Thing. So between "SOF" and "No SOF", I'm 100% in favor of the latter.
And secondly, I think we should stop caring about what is good for Linux' marketing future. I, frankly, don't give a rat's behind about the optimum way to spin it for maxumum palatability. Free (as in beer) is right by it's own virtue, regardless of it's marketroid virtues.
But I understand the point your trying to make. I just disagree.
The original Slashdot 1-Click "prior art" story can be found here. The original BountyQuest page can be found here as well. And of course, if you're not real big into goat-love, the actual links are:
http://slashdot.org/articles/01/03/08/2058216.shtm l
An AC wrote:
"So you're saying that US law should apply in US-China relations?"
Who said anything about US Law? I'm saying that claiming you want an investigation but demand an apology first flags them as being full of it.
"How do you reconcile the illegality [under US law] of intercepting and decrypting broadcast communications?"
Well this is a loaded question. First, it's not the issue I'm addressing. Changing the subject doesn't make for a valid argument. Second, what US law makes it illegal for our government to do precisely what they were doing? It's kind of a stupid question, frankly. The government makes it illegal to kill, too, yet allows it's troops to do so when it sees fit.
Someone modded this as funny??? Good post, thanks. I'd mod it even higher if (a) I didn't already post on this story, (b) I had any mod points and (c) if moderations could actually go higher than 5.
But I still wanted to know who thought this was humor... =)
katz writes:
"...because one culture can't apologize for an obvious accident and the other culture insists that only an apology can end the crisis."
Look, first, for the record let me state that I have no problem with Jon Katz' articles.
That having been said, this was not an obvious accident. Yes, I realize that my country can be just as propagandist as the next one regardless of our warm fuzzies about being above all that, but we have two pieces of evidence before us which are irrefutable; an EP-3E and a F-8 were involved. Maybe I'm just harping on the somewhat loaded phrase of "accident", but if we discard all the other rhetoric, we're left with these two facts. The fault is theirs, regardless of how the diplomats want to massage it.
Worse, they want an investigation...but an apology *first*. What?? I realize this will be tagged (and possibly modded down) as a jingoistic rant, but in this country, a person is (theoretically, see Mitnik) considered innocent until proven guilty. An apology does not come before the investigation.
kiwi wrote (taken from communitech's website):
"Though the history of UNIX is based on GNU..."
Holy schnikies! Correct me if I'm wrong, but Unix came before GNU...right? I know precisely jack and **** about *nix security, but how little do you have to know about Linux to know that...?
I'm not sure what I'm more afraid of; someone telling me I'm right or someone telling me I'm wrong!
you're actually right, my apologies. i was speaking more towards the term "extreme computing". when i think of that phrase, i think of the tmrc, i think of caltech. i could have been more precise.
what a dumbass phrase. worse, it was stupid when it was used for things it could reasonably be appended to like monster trucking or...fuck, i dunno. mud wrestling? hmm. slashdot: all the social skills of a nerd combined with all the brainpower of a hick sport. yay!
i just purchased a new mootherboard and chip, which of course required installing windows again.
once the os was installed, i popped in the included cd and installed the lan, direct x 7 and sound drivers and it had to reboot no less than 8 times. i was speechless. and we're not even talking an interactive "would you like to restart your system now" prompt, it just *did* it.
that having been said, was there every any difference? DALnet has always been the aol of the chat world. this is simply some money swapping hands. everyone, go to efnet (or whatever).
around 1991 or so, a guy by the name of larry wright was in a levi 501 jean commercial. also appeared in the movie "green card" - he's the black kid in the subway "bucketdrumming". he went on to work with savion glover in "bring in da funk, bring in da noise".
about a year ago i saw a bucketdrummer (in case you don't know, it's just a person with a pickle bucket and some drumsticks - sometimes other kitchen/assorted items - drumming) near tower records in boston, massachusetts. thought for sure there would be some tracks on the internet. not only were there none, but i couldn't find anything but passing references to the art in various articles. that's why i began crashspace.net, it's an attempt to chronicle the style. it's actually a damned shame that nothing exists. this summer is going to be an amazing year, i'll probably get some stuff from larry himself. i already have some sessions from chris little, a student of his along with some local talent here in boston.
if you want the original track, look for "subway drums" from the "green card" soundtrack. and remember, the kid is doing this with a *single* bucket and two sticks. and if you know of any sites that cover this subject, PLEASE email me (don't sqweeze the charmin. =)
As far as I can tell, this text is copyright of "Nature and the scientists who published it. How dare you steal their work and post it on Slashdot simply
because you find Nature's way of publishing it inconvenient? You do not have the right to do with this text as you please; you have essentially
stolen it. Although I suppose you do that with music all the time. Note: this is not a troll. I mean it."
i have not yet found a compelling argument for intellectual property (with one exception; pharmeceuticals). i feel it is absurd to own a song, a recording, an abstract. as such, i'm not only allowed but compelled to fight such a system.
"But soon the wonder would fade and the fear would set in. Fear of death, fear of any risk which could injure yourself and fear of not being able to afford to live in a reasonable manner."
i don't see the logic. we have a finite amount of time and yet people don't irrationally fear premature death, avoiding things like crossing the street. i don't see how having an infinite amount of life will make people act this way if cutting short an already very short span doesn't already. i see what you're getting at, i just disagree.
"So I think that living forever is something that we shouldn't want, and shouldn't work towards. Humans just aren't ready to accept eternal life in this world, and we won't be unless we overcome our petty greed and our fears. And Star Trek aside, I just don't see that happening any time soon. There are too many people with too much to lose from disturbing the status quo."
what makes you think humans couldn't "accept" it? and obviously it won't be happening "anytime soon", but so what? isn't that sort of what we do on slashdot - talk about advances that might lead to something interesting 1, 3, 20 and 1,000 years in the future? finally, we're moving into a situation where information is enough. for example, you don't need to have a nuclear refining lab, you can do just as much damage with a chemistry degree, some ricin and an ultralite. unless the process is inhibitive, the only way to supress this fountain of youth is to supress the information...and we all know how well that works. =)
after jumping through their hoops with a junk email account, i was allowed to read the full abstract. it is:
Essential role of the mitochondrial apoptosis-inducing factor in programmed
cell death
NICHOLAS JOZA, SANTOS A. SUSIN, ERIC DAUGAS, WILLIAM L. STANFORD, SARAH K. CHO, CAROL Y. J. LI, TAKEHIKO SASAKI,
ANDREW J. ELIA, H.-Y. MARY CHENG, LUIGI RAVAGNAN, KARINE F. FERRI, NAOUFAL ZAMZAMI, ANDREW WAKEHAM,
RAZQALLAH HAKEM, HIROKI YOSHIDA, YOUNG-YUN KONG, TAK W. MAK, JUAN CARLOS ZÚÑIGA-PFLÜCKER, GUIDO KROEMER &
JOSEF M. PENNINGER
Programmed cell death is a fundamental requirement for embryogenesis, organ metamorphosis and tissue homeostasis. In
mammals, release of mitochondrial cytochrome c leads to the cytosolic assembly of the apoptosome-a caspase activation
complex involving Apaf1 and caspase-9 that induces hallmarks of apoptosis. There are, however, mitochondrially regulated
cell death pathways that are independent of Apaf1/caspase-9. We have previously cloned a molecule associated with
programmed cell death called apoptosis-inducing factor (AIF). Like cytochrome c, AIF is localized to mitochondria and
released in response to death stimuli. Here we show that genetic inactivation of AIF renders embryonic stem cells resistant to
cell death after serum deprivation. Moreover, AIF is essential for programmed cell death during cavitation of embryoid
bodies-the very first wave of cell death indispensable for mouse morphogenesis. AIF-dependent cell death displays structural
features of apoptosis, and can be genetically uncoupled from Apaf1 and caspase-9 expression. Our data provide genetic
evidence for a caspase-independent pathway of programmed cell death that controls early morphogenesis.
with 2,000ms pingtimes being quite normal, all but the most sparse websites take quite some time to load completely. again, i'll take the occasional dns round-robin over your sat uplink anyday.
besides, you speak as if satelites don't fail. the fact is they do. and when one does, in the system you outline, you now have a single point of failure...which is exactly what the internet avoids (unless the source itself is screwed).
well, of course it's a matter of an individual's perception of whether the content is worth it. i'm willing to shell out a few bucks a month to read the various and sundry linux rags, but i don't do the same for sports illustrated because i don't give a rat's *** about the AFL.
i, personally, think that salon has some really, good writing - and would be willing to shell out some bucks just on principle alone - but $30/yr is about as much (or more) than some hardcopy subscriptions. since the materials probably make up a bulk of magazine costs (someone have numbers and/or a refutation?), i have to wonder why the rate is so high. if it was $15/yr i'd be writing a check right now.
"A prototype for a potential fleet of solar-powered autonomous aircraft that fly at high altitude in "V" formations like geese and serve as wireless communications hubs or sensing platforms will be displayed June 5 at UCLA in Westwood. The aircraft was designed and built by UCLA and Rockwell engineers in partnership with NASA."
these people really ought to read slashdot more often... =)
i'm not pissed that slashdot "buckled". i'm pissed that it took them being personally threatened under the dmca to post what is effectively a HOWTO on fighting it.
i think it'd be naive for anyone to think that...at the very least, some things wouldn't change when andover took over. they have a bottom like to be accountable to, and i'm okay with that. what i resent is slashdot (and the people who make it what it is) utterly squandering the most often read geek site in existance.
next to every !@#$ing story about the DMCA (or anything else that limits our rights) should be a primer on why the law is bad/stupid/unenforcable. my grandmother doesn't give a rat's ass that the MPAA incorrectly calls CSS a copy control mechanism, but she might very well care that someone could publish a digital book that the author doesn't allow a woman to read (and circumventing that control will give you 2nd degree murder-like prison times).
every time a story comes out about an utterly absurd law should have a link to the original documents. it should have a link to the zipcode lookup (for the extra 4 digits) so everyone can easily find their senator and a way to contact them. it should have links to local groups that you can help in getting organized. in short, every damned story that involves a limiting of our rights should look a lot like this page.
i did some research on the dmca a few months back and it took me 4 days to nail down just a reasonable amount of data. people aren't apathetic, they're too foobin' busy. add to that people sneaking legislation under the radar so that nobody is the wiser, now you have a system that is not only overwhelming but invisible.
so i'm sorry that it took this to get slashdot to rally the troops. pardon me for taking the obvious shot, but here's something that the founders of slashdot might want to reread. they have an obligation and they're pissing it away.
first they came for the communists, and i didn't speak up, because i wasn't a communist. then they came for the jews, and i didn't speak up, because i wasn't a jew. then they came for the catholics, and i didn't speak up, because i was a protestant. then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me" - rev. martin niemoller, 1945
Slashdot Mirror
"Sharing movies is illegal. If someone shares a movie, they aren't going to buy it."
I realize this is a contentuous point in the argument for/against P2P methods but I am proof positive that this is incorrect. I downloaded Mary Lou Lord tracks long before I actually met her in the subways of Boston, performing, yet every time she has a new CD I buy one from her. I already have the songs, but I'd like to support her effort. I feel a lot better knowing that it's going to her and not some clowns in between. I also listen to progressive trance now because of sharing illegal MP3s. ...but now I head to the record store and pick up vinyl so I can spin new stuff.
I won't pretend that people don't dl files (movies, songs) to avoid paying for them, but to make it a blanket statement and pass it as fact is just plain incorrect and you should be called on it.
I'll also grant that Slashdot has been screaming to the heavens for precisely this (MPAA going after individuals) so they're hypocritical for complaining about it now. But I don't agree with IP for a myriad of reasons that we could both debate until our heads exploded.
My .02,
And secondly, I think we should stop caring about what is good for Linux' marketing future. I, frankly, don't give a rat's behind about the optimum way to spin it for maxumum palatability. Free (as in beer) is right by it's own virtue, regardless of it's marketroid virtues.
But I understand the point your trying to make. I just disagree.
My .02,
http://slashdot.org/articles/01/03/08/2058216.shtm l
http://www.bountyquest.com/bounties/displayBounty. php?bountyName=1019
My .02,
"So you're saying that US law should apply in US-China relations?"
Who said anything about US Law? I'm saying that claiming you want an investigation but demand an apology first flags them as being full of it.
"How do you reconcile the illegality [under US law] of intercepting and decrypting broadcast communications?"
Well this is a loaded question. First, it's not the issue I'm addressing. Changing the subject doesn't make for a valid argument. Second, what US law makes it illegal for our government to do precisely what they were doing? It's kind of a stupid question, frankly. The government makes it illegal to kill, too, yet allows it's troops to do so when it sees fit.
My .02,
But I still wanted to know who thought this was humor... =)
My .02,
My .02,
"...because one culture can't apologize for an obvious accident and the other culture insists that only an apology can end the crisis."
Look, first, for the record let me state that I have no problem with Jon Katz' articles.
That having been said, this was not an obvious accident. Yes, I realize that my country can be just as propagandist as the next one regardless of our warm fuzzies about being above all that, but we have two pieces of evidence before us which are irrefutable; an EP-3E and a F-8 were involved. Maybe I'm just harping on the somewhat loaded phrase of "accident", but if we discard all the other rhetoric, we're left with these two facts. The fault is theirs, regardless of how the diplomats want to massage it.
Worse, they want an investigation ...but an apology *first*. What?? I realize this will be tagged (and possibly modded down) as a jingoistic rant, but in this country, a person is (theoretically, see Mitnik) considered innocent until proven guilty. An apology does not come before the investigation.
My .02,
"Though the history of UNIX is based on GNU..."
Holy schnikies! Correct me if I'm wrong, but Unix came before GNU ...right? I know precisely jack and **** about *nix security, but how little do you have to know about Linux to know that...?
I'm not sure what I'm more afraid of; someone telling me I'm right or someone telling me I'm wrong!
My .02,
you're actually right, my apologies. i was speaking more towards the term "extreme computing". when i think of that phrase, i think of the tmrc, i think of caltech. i could have been more precise.
My .02,
watching flies fuck
watching paint dry
watching someone code until they sweat
what a dumbass phrase. worse, it was stupid when it was used for things it could reasonably be appended to like monster trucking or ...fuck, i dunno. mud wrestling? hmm. slashdot: all the social skills of a nerd combined with all the brainpower of a hick sport. yay!
My .02,
My .02,
My .02,
once the os was installed, i popped in the included cd and installed the lan, direct x 7 and sound drivers and it had to reboot no less than 8 times. i was speechless. and we're not even talking an interactive "would you like to restart your system now" prompt, it just *did* it.
My .02,
that having been said, was there every any difference? DALnet has always been the aol of the chat world. this is simply some money swapping hands. everyone, go to efnet (or whatever).
My .02,
about a year ago i saw a bucketdrummer (in case you don't know, it's just a person with a pickle bucket and some drumsticks - sometimes other kitchen/assorted items - drumming) near tower records in boston, massachusetts. thought for sure there would be some tracks on the internet. not only were there none, but i couldn't find anything but passing references to the art in various articles. that's why i began crashspace.net, it's an attempt to chronicle the style. it's actually a damned shame that nothing exists. this summer is going to be an amazing year, i'll probably get some stuff from larry himself. i already have some sessions from chris little, a student of his along with some local talent here in boston.
if you want the original track, look for "subway drums" from the "green card" soundtrack. and remember, the kid is doing this with a *single* bucket and two sticks. and if you know of any sites that cover this subject, PLEASE email me (don't sqweeze the charmin. =)
My .02,
* in the rind of a potato, just below the skin, is a chemical that is the same as found (in greater quantities) in people with schitzophrenia.
* the country with the highest rate of schitzophrenia per capita is ...ireland.
i apologize right away for not having references, but i do recall hearing this. if anyone can provide a reference or disprove this, please do.
My .02,
i have not yet found a compelling argument for intellectual property (with one exception; pharmeceuticals). i feel it is absurd to own a song, a recording, an abstract. as such, i'm not only allowed but compelled to fight such a system.
sorry.
My .02,
"who would really want to live forever?"
sounds like a catchy song. =)
"But soon the wonder would fade and the fear would set in. Fear of death, fear of any risk which could injure yourself and fear of not being able to afford to live in a reasonable manner."
i don't see the logic. we have a finite amount of time and yet people don't irrationally fear premature death, avoiding things like crossing the street. i don't see how having an infinite amount of life will make people act this way if cutting short an already very short span doesn't already. i see what you're getting at, i just disagree.
"So I think that living forever is something that we shouldn't want, and shouldn't work towards. Humans just aren't ready to accept eternal life in this world, and we won't be unless we overcome our petty greed and our fears. And Star Trek aside, I just don't see that happening any time soon. There are too many people with too much to lose from disturbing the status quo."
what makes you think humans couldn't "accept" it? and obviously it won't be happening "anytime soon", but so what? isn't that sort of what we do on slashdot - talk about advances that might lead to something interesting 1, 3, 20 and 1,000 years in the future? finally, we're moving into a situation where information is enough. for example, you don't need to have a nuclear refining lab, you can do just as much damage with a chemistry degree, some ricin and an ultralite. unless the process is inhibitive, the only way to supress this fountain of youth is to supress the information ...and we all know how well that works. =)
My .02,
Essential role of the mitochondrial apoptosis-inducing factor in programmed cell death
NICHOLAS JOZA, SANTOS A. SUSIN, ERIC DAUGAS, WILLIAM L. STANFORD, SARAH K. CHO, CAROL Y. J. LI, TAKEHIKO SASAKI, ANDREW J. ELIA, H.-Y. MARY CHENG, LUIGI RAVAGNAN, KARINE F. FERRI, NAOUFAL ZAMZAMI, ANDREW WAKEHAM, RAZQALLAH HAKEM, HIROKI YOSHIDA, YOUNG-YUN KONG, TAK W. MAK, JUAN CARLOS ZÚÑIGA-PFLÜCKER, GUIDO KROEMER & JOSEF M. PENNINGER
Programmed cell death is a fundamental requirement for embryogenesis, organ metamorphosis and tissue homeostasis. In mammals, release of mitochondrial cytochrome c leads to the cytosolic assembly of the apoptosome-a caspase activation complex involving Apaf1 and caspase-9 that induces hallmarks of apoptosis. There are, however, mitochondrially regulated cell death pathways that are independent of Apaf1/caspase-9. We have previously cloned a molecule associated with programmed cell death called apoptosis-inducing factor (AIF). Like cytochrome c, AIF is localized to mitochondria and released in response to death stimuli. Here we show that genetic inactivation of AIF renders embryonic stem cells resistant to cell death after serum deprivation. Moreover, AIF is essential for programmed cell death during cavitation of embryoid bodies-the very first wave of cell death indispensable for mouse morphogenesis. AIF-dependent cell death displays structural features of apoptosis, and can be genetically uncoupled from Apaf1 and caspase-9 expression. Our data provide genetic evidence for a caspase-independent pathway of programmed cell death that controls early morphogenesis.
My .02,
My .02,
with 2,000ms pingtimes being quite normal, all but the most sparse websites take quite some time to load completely. again, i'll take the occasional dns round-robin over your sat uplink anyday.
besides, you speak as if satelites don't fail. the fact is they do. and when one does, in the system you outline, you now have a single point of failure ...which is exactly what the internet avoids (unless the source itself is screwed).
oh, and ...i work in that room. =)
My .02,
i, personally, think that salon has some really, good writing - and would be willing to shell out some bucks just on principle alone - but $30/yr is about as much (or more) than some hardcopy subscriptions. since the materials probably make up a bulk of magazine costs (someone have numbers and/or a refutation?), i have to wonder why the rate is so high. if it was $15/yr i'd be writing a check right now.
My .02,
from http://www.engineer.ucla.edu/press/1996/uavproto.h tml
"A prototype for a potential fleet of solar-powered autonomous aircraft that fly at high altitude in "V" formations like geese and serve as wireless communications hubs or sensing platforms will be displayed June 5 at UCLA in Westwood. The aircraft was designed and built by UCLA and Rockwell engineers in partnership with NASA."
these people really ought to read slashdot more often... =)
My .02,
i'm moving everything to debian this week.
check cheapbytes' debian 2.2 binary cd (intel, 3 cd's).
My .02,
i think it'd be naive for anyone to think that ...at the very least, some things wouldn't change when andover took over. they have a bottom like to be accountable to, and i'm okay with that. what i resent is slashdot (and the people who make it what it is) utterly squandering the most often read geek site in existance.
next to every !@#$ing story about the DMCA (or anything else that limits our rights) should be a primer on why the law is bad/stupid/unenforcable. my grandmother doesn't give a rat's ass that the MPAA incorrectly calls CSS a copy control mechanism, but she might very well care that someone could publish a digital book that the author doesn't allow a woman to read (and circumventing that control will give you 2nd degree murder-like prison times).
every time a story comes out about an utterly absurd law should have a link to the original documents. it should have a link to the zipcode lookup (for the extra 4 digits) so everyone can easily find their senator and a way to contact them. it should have links to local groups that you can help in getting organized. in short, every damned story that involves a limiting of our rights should look a lot like this page.
i did some research on the dmca a few months back and it took me 4 days to nail down just a reasonable amount of data. people aren't apathetic, they're too foobin' busy. add to that people sneaking legislation under the radar so that nobody is the wiser, now you have a system that is not only overwhelming but invisible.
so i'm sorry that it took this to get slashdot to rally the troops. pardon me for taking the obvious shot, but here's something that the founders of slashdot might want to reread. they have an obligation and they're pissing it away.
first they came for the communists, and i didn't speak up, because i wasn't a communist. then they came for the jews, and i didn't speak up, because i wasn't a jew. then they came for the catholics, and i didn't speak up, because i was a protestant. then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me" - rev. martin niemoller, 1945
My .02,