It may sound strange but konqueror may be best described as a Kparts viewer. Mostly khtml parts of course. Not sure if there's a kfm part or if the file managing got folded into konq's core when kde2 got started. I expect that sooner or later it will simply be able to embed a dolphin part. Probably the kfm legacy stuff will have its days numbered.
The requirement "use our 2 approved FOSS licenses, or none at all" as you word it is a bit like MySQL's. TT's FAQ has this language but strictly speaking such a requirement would not even be allowed by the GPL itself. You need to abide to the terms of the GPL but other than that you may impose no further restrictions. You may not add anything to the GPL and still call it "the" GPL. Demanding to use the GPL for "derived works" can be taken to be one such further restriction. Even worse, for a toolkit it's a USE restiction which is explicitly rejected by the very GPL. So inconsistencies abound. I know, it's an old debate of sorts and there are still differering opinions.
I made and maintain a small app for FreeBSD that uses the PyQt/PyKDE bindings for its GUI. PyQt is licensed the same way as Qt (there is a commercial PyQt3 for windows BTW). I released my code under BSDL (including GUI stuff) and that's just fine. I supply all source code and I'm not responsible for what anyone else does with it. It's up to the next guy to comply with the GPL. It's my understanding that if he doesn't want to release any sourcecode (my non GUI modules are fair game anyway of course) he either has to buy a license or don't re-use the GUI.
But I am never forced to put a GPL on my code. The GPL is not *that* viral. I have to comply with it (for the GUI part) and I do. And yes, I actually asked them about this when, as of Qt4, the "noncommercial" QPL disappeared and so I had to decide what to make of the stern ("it must be GPL'd") wording. Mrs Legal Dept actually confirmed that what I did was allowed because I was complying with the GPL terms. It seems to me that the language they use on their site is basically a simplification, rather than malice or bluff.
"The Kingdom of the Netherlands is only 52 years old"
Where did you get that idea?
King Willem I (1772-1843), King Willem II (1792-1849), King Willem III (1817-1890), When King William III died in 1890, his only daughter was too young to reign. Queen Emma acted as regent until her daughter Wilhelmina came of age in 1898. Queen Wilhelmina (1880-1962), then Queen Juliana (1962-1980) and Queen Beatrix (1980-now). (Link here)
After the Spanish occupation, but before the monarchs, Holland was mostly a republic of some sort.
This is IMO _the_ tool to learn the language quickly. Test small pieces of code there, paste them together later. Teach them how to use the built-in niceties like doc(), dir(),..
"No...A socialist more honestly (in my observation, at least) is usually a closet Communist who doesn't want to admit such to himself or other people. (usually because he's scared that nobody will listen to his opinions if he does) The term "progressive" is another such euphemism for closet Communism. Most of the authors on commondreams.org (as but one example of "progressive" closet Communist websites) would... "
Now define antiwar.com. A rightwing site with many the same analyses and conclusions. You know what, even Pat Buchanan actually has some interesting things to say now and then. The man has probably been demonized for a long time. Justin Raimondo is one of those bloggers that informed people will want to read. Just as much as (left wing Texan) billmon.org.
I read both. And counterpunch. Good for your independant thinking.
Exactly. I'd put it more bluntly: they want someone to blame, somewhere where the buck stops if things go bad. They're a government not a [L][U]UG. So they'll go SuSE because that's what Novell offers.
who is a well known producer, and he says it shorter, better, and less drivlish. He also wrote it long before Love (and yes they KNOW eachother of course):
Here's one: make sure it blows outwards or perhaps even better remove it. A front fan sucking (already warm room temperature) air in can easily contribute to CPU/MB/HD heating.
There's enough holes and slits everywhere to get fresh air into the case. Don't think you're improving airflow (perhaps yes) and therefore heat reduction (certainly not) with a front fan blowing into the case. It also gets much more dust into your case BTW. It would work in a relatively sterile room that is cooled itself (a server room perhaps, but not a bedroom).
Someone else suggested what amounts to the same reasoning. One can't even use the GPL on their work if they would want to force it to be gpl (unless they'd fork the gpl and use that fork as license, we haven't seen that yet I think).
Much insight there in SLi-land. Thanks for your comments.
Sorry to answer to myself, but let me clarify what I mean: if they put a GPL on their stuff it means that if I create a derivative work (which in it self, if say using python with the toolkit is technically hard to maintain because you don't even link anything but never mind) I can be forced to abide to the GPL terms (which I do when releasing something under BSD) but not to effectively relicense. I don't buy that for a second. Can't be enforced like this.
In the case of (t)csh on FreeBSD this is absolutely NOT true. System utilities are almost all compiled from C and things like rc scripts are always in plain sh. Always.
I don't know about vice versa, but GTK apps can be made to blend in quite well with KDE without resorting to having "sort of the same theme for both": GTK-Qt Theme Engine http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/gtk-qt
Yes usability is very important and undervalued, but it's quite rediculous to see Windows as the shining light in this respect.
I always say two words: Windows Mixer. Here's a (I suppose) utility that's meant to be used a lot by any and all users. But since it's birth (win95 or maybe even 3.x) it's been totally incomprehensible and it hasn't changed at all. Ask a random person to turn the microphone playing down but the recording level up (for example to reduce echos while in a conferencing app). They'll get confused and most often are not able to carry out the task. The result is every soundcard maker throwing a mixer app of their own on their driver CD. All have different UIs of course.
Besides, where KDE/Gnome/OSX strives to have apps that look and act in a uniform way, on Windows I see the opposite trend. Media players having their own wacky UI that's completely out of cue with "normal" apps. TV viewers: Why the heck do their widgets have to be dark blue or something. It's not CDE, it's Windows.
And here's the twist: many windows users seem to actually LIKE those incompatible and weird GUIs that come with such apps! What a world:)
This *is* the gist of where opinions diverge. What constitutes a gift and is there any reciprocity (sp?) expected or implied by the licence or any (social) contract.
GPL expects something back, not unlike if you never give me a birthday present I may want to stop giving you one, while BSD is the one making and serving the snacks or doing the dishes on both our birthday parties. Why? Who cares why, he just seems to like doing that. Just don't tell him he's stacking the plates the wrong way. He knows his plates better than we do.
One view starts from contract theory, the other from a more philantropic (sp?) POV. The first is like a personal present, the second more like giving to the poor or something. Which one's "right" or most in line with reality (of the day) always will of course depend on the cicumstances, the field for which the specific software is designed, and many other factors.
I do feel that because of these differences in starting point (as far as licenses and intent go) that (a) it's impossible to have a discussion without identifying these differences in philosophy (b) in terms of tech the differences are of a very different (and less divergent I'd say) nature, and (c) laying blame on the developer is likely more expected and accepted in a "contract" based give-away.
Either way, IMHO if people get some great stuff for free they should perhaps be a bit cauteous before looking too deep into the horse's mouth. Developer burnout in OSS comes from lack of interest and/or participation from others and from interaction with (l)users. They are GIVING something. People too often forget that.
Or how your being made jobless first is now perhaps being used (in shades of hip and coolness of course, see also "street teams" for the music cartel, the military recruitment,...) to put young folks into the geeks' version of an idol's competion where of course everyone loses even the winners., except... the organizers.
Perhaps I'm just too cynical, and no one wants to hear it anyway (which is a good indication that I might be on to something), but the whole google, gmail, recruiting, kool-aid I dunno it's starting to smell like a rat the more I think and read about it.
Slashdot Mirror
It may sound strange but konqueror may be best described as a Kparts viewer. Mostly khtml parts of course. Not sure if there's a kfm part or if the file managing got folded into konq's core when kde2 got started. I expect that sooner or later it will simply be able to embed a dolphin part. Probably the kfm legacy stuff will have its days numbered.
I made and maintain a small app for FreeBSD that uses the PyQt/PyKDE bindings for its GUI. PyQt is licensed the same way as Qt (there is a commercial PyQt3 for windows BTW). I released my code under BSDL (including GUI stuff) and that's just fine. I supply all source code and I'm not responsible for what anyone else does with it. It's up to the next guy to comply with the GPL. It's my understanding that if he doesn't want to release any sourcecode (my non GUI modules are fair game anyway of course) he either has to buy a license or don't re-use the GUI.
But I am never forced to put a GPL on my code. The GPL is not *that* viral. I have to comply with it (for the GUI part) and I do. And yes, I actually asked them about this when, as of Qt4, the "noncommercial" QPL disappeared and so I had to decide what to make of the stern ("it must be GPL'd") wording. Mrs Legal Dept actually confirmed that what I did was allowed because I was complying with the GPL terms. It seems to me that the language they use on their site is basically a simplification, rather than malice or bluff.
"The Kingdom of the Netherlands is only 52 years old"
Where did you get that idea?
King Willem I (1772-1843), King Willem II (1792-1849), King Willem III (1817-1890), When King William III died in 1890, his only daughter was too young to reign. Queen Emma acted as regent until her daughter Wilhelmina came of age in 1898. Queen Wilhelmina (1880-1962), then Queen Juliana (1962-1980) and Queen Beatrix (1980-now). (Link here)
After the Spanish occupation, but before the monarchs, Holland was mostly a republic of some sort.
+10, perceptive.
What I mean with that is not particularly insightful, rather observing the obvious while (almost) no one else seems to. Good one.
This is IMO _the_ tool to learn the language quickly. Test small pieces of code there, paste them together later. Teach them how to use the built-in niceties like doc(), dir(), ..
Now define antiwar.com. A rightwing site with many the same analyses and conclusions. You know what, even Pat Buchanan actually has some interesting things to say now and then. The man has probably been demonized for a long time. Justin Raimondo is one of those bloggers that informed people will want to read. Just as much as (left wing Texan) billmon.org. I read both. And counterpunch. Good for your independant thinking.
Who's having a non-discussion here?
Exactly. I'd put it more bluntly: they want someone to blame, somewhere where the buck stops if things go bad. They're a government not a [L][U]UG. So they'll go SuSE because that's what Novell offers.
http://www.negativland.com/albini.html
Yeah John Le carre would be much more real MI5/6 material. They don't like him as much as jolly ol' 007 do they :) Too realistic maybe.
007 does Basra... "Damn.. the bloody tank's on fire!"
"Until they actually get reporters on their staff, this'll always be the case."
Nope. Then it'll be worse.
Here's one: make sure it blows outwards or perhaps even better remove it. A front fan sucking (already warm room temperature) air in can easily contribute to CPU/MB/HD heating.
There's enough holes and slits everywhere to get fresh air into the case. Don't think you're improving airflow (perhaps yes) and therefore heat reduction (certainly not) with a front fan blowing into the case. It also gets much more dust into your case BTW. It would work in a relatively sterile room that is cooled itself (a server room perhaps, but not a bedroom).
uhm, I meant "... force it [a derivative] to be GPL rather than complying with"
:)
Yeah I know there *is* a preview button
Someone else suggested what amounts to the same reasoning. One can't even use the GPL on their work if they would want to force it to be gpl (unless they'd fork the gpl and use that fork as license, we haven't seen that yet I think).
Much insight there in SLi-land. Thanks for your comments.
Please note that what I originally said is different from the halftroll that replied.
According to their own terms (see link in my OP) what you describe is NOT applicable anymore and that's why I worry about it.
You talk about "the recipient". If I use QT to make a program that I want to distribute I *am* the first recipient.
Thanks for answering.
Sorry to answer to myself, but let me clarify what I mean: if they put a GPL on their stuff it means that if I create a derivative work (which in it self, if say using python with the toolkit is technically hard to maintain because you don't even link anything but never mind) I can be forced to abide to the GPL terms (which I do when releasing something under BSD) but not to effectively relicense. I don't buy that for a second. Can't be enforced like this.
http://www.trolltech.com/download/opensource.html
"Add a notice to your program that it is GPL licensed when it runs"
The QPL seems to be gone. THis is new. So what if I use QT but want to release my own code as BSD?
HARSH(1) would be a great name for a shell :)
In the case of (t)csh on FreeBSD this is absolutely NOT true. System utilities are almost all compiled from C and things like rc scripts are always in plain sh. Always.
Insightful? Yeah right.
I don't know about vice versa, but GTK apps can be made to blend in quite well with KDE without resorting to having "sort of the same theme for both": GTK-Qt Theme Engine http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/gtk-qt
Yes usability is very important and undervalued, but it's quite rediculous to see Windows as the shining light in this respect.
:)
I always say two words: Windows Mixer. Here's a (I suppose) utility that's meant to be used a lot by any and all users. But since it's birth (win95 or maybe even 3.x) it's been totally incomprehensible and it hasn't changed at all. Ask a random person to turn the microphone playing down but the recording level up (for example to reduce echos while in a conferencing app). They'll get confused and most often are not able to carry out the task. The result is every soundcard maker throwing a mixer app of their own on their driver CD. All have different UIs of course.
Besides, where KDE/Gnome/OSX strives to have apps that look and act in a uniform way, on Windows I see the opposite trend. Media players having their own wacky UI that's completely out of cue with "normal" apps. TV viewers: Why the heck do their widgets have to be dark blue or something. It's not CDE, it's Windows.
And here's the twist: many windows users seem to actually LIKE those incompatible and weird GUIs that come with such apps! What a world
Copyright control is in the first line you put in: (c) by /me
Not by the GPL or BSDL or any other licence covering end use/reuse/distribution
Well at least copyright assertion. Control can't be guaranteed in any way but to have it never leave your own encrypted hard disk.
This *is* the gist of where opinions diverge. What constitutes a gift and is there any reciprocity (sp?) expected or implied by the licence or any (social) contract.
GPL expects something back, not unlike if you never give me a birthday present I may want to stop giving you one, while BSD is the one making and serving the snacks or doing the dishes on both our birthday parties. Why? Who cares why, he just seems to like doing that. Just don't tell him he's stacking the plates the wrong way. He knows his plates better than we do.
One view starts from contract theory, the other from a more philantropic (sp?) POV. The first is like a personal present, the second more like giving to the poor or something. Which one's "right" or most in line with reality (of the day) always will of course depend on the cicumstances, the field for which the specific software is designed, and many other factors.
I do feel that because of these differences in starting point (as far as licenses and intent go) that (a) it's impossible to have a discussion without identifying these differences in philosophy (b) in terms of tech the differences are of a very different (and less divergent I'd say) nature, and (c) laying blame on the developer is likely more expected and accepted in a "contract" based give-away.
Either way, IMHO if people get some great stuff for free they should perhaps be a bit cauteous before looking too deep into the horse's mouth. Developer burnout in OSS comes from lack of interest and/or participation from others and from interaction with (l)users. They are GIVING something. People too often forget that.
That would imply that the app evaluation took at most LESS than 10 minutes! Who knows...
Do *you* know where your IP is going?
...)
Or how your being made jobless first is now perhaps being used (in shades of hip and coolness of course, see also "street teams" for the music cartel, the military recruitment,
to put young folks into the geeks' version of an idol's competion where of course everyone loses even the winners., except... the organizers.
Perhaps I'm just too cynical, and no one wants to hear it anyway (which is a good indication that I might be on to something), but the whole google, gmail, recruiting, kool-aid I dunno it's starting to smell like a rat the more I think and read about it.
under a somewhat ugly (GPL'ed) QT wizard. The text is the same, the steps are the same... not much to see here.
Let's see that package manager they're going to come up with and maybe then we can get impressed.