Without a doubt, QT is the reigning king of quick, pretty and cross platform GUI development. And of course you would do that with C++ if you want your code to be most widely portable, and to put your demo in the best light by starting fast and responding fast. But QT works well with many other languages, including having excellent Python support. Here is an idea: use Lua both to drive your demos and be the embedded scripting language at the same time. That would rock.
All that shows is that it takes the resources of a Google and an app architecture that acknowledges any large program written in C/C++ will leak in order to create a "snappy" app that doesn't crash.
Wow, that's funny considering A) Google's apps are generally embarrassingly overweight and sloppily coded and B) most of the best C++ apps come from small teams or inviduals. Can you spell Carmack?
Actually, it betrays a rather extensive lack of clue about antenna design, and the elevation of form over function. It also suggests some engineers quaking in their proverbial boots instead of telling Jobs what a dumb idea it was.
Wait, I thought we called bonch a MS shill? Now that account is an Apple shill? Or, is it possible that the account wielder just has an unpopular opinion? Hell, I don't know - I thought he might have been a shill too. But at this point we seem to be labeling so many people as shills that I have a feeling we are just wrong.
I would say that bonch and jo_ham are indeed cynical Apple shills. Just my opinion.
It is not only quite possible for C++ code to beat Java in performance, startup time and memory footprint, it is quite easy.
Yup, the startup may be quicker with an app written in C++, bit all too often it's followed by a catastrophic crash.
So... why haven't I seen any of those catastrophic crashes you talk of in as long as I can reasonably remember? Oh wait, right, Chrome used to go "snap" and Firefox would oom once a week. Gosh.
Naturally I say something bad about Apple, and someone modbombs it...
I used to think it was just misguided Apple fans, now I understand that they are paid spindroids. I do not think the actual effect is as they wish. Instead this behavior just makes me more inclined to express critical opinions of Apple, its business practices, and its ethics.
Apple has actually been cited as the most proactive when it comes to monitoring work conditions in the factories they contract with.
I believe that Apple is proactive about paying lip service to the need to do something, without actually doing anything substantive about the http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?pagewanted=all>factory explosions and suicides. See, you can have your cake and eat it too.
Wow, I'm surprised at the driveby downmods in this thread. I mean, I held this image of Java developers as open minded individuals, but maybe there is a significant minority that just aren't. Guys: it is a fact. If you need your program to go fast, plus be OOP, then you should write it in C++. GCC will hand you somewhere between 10% and 200% speedup "for free" on real life algorithms, plus startup time normally faster by a multiple, and a fraction of the memory footprint. And small binaries, and runtime support always installed by default.
Java has its uses. It is generally faster to develop in and less tricky for the naive programmer. You can effectively build a project faster with less skilled and less expensive, more freely available developers. That is a big deal, not to be underestimated. But if your functional requirements include fast and tight, Java is not the right choice. Well, it's faster than Python or Bash. And sometimes not even that if you include JIT time.
OK, what is it about Java programmers and not being able to tolerate factual statements about their favorite language?
...filing false accounts over something as trivial as "hiding" the supposed mega profit made from the online store? I mean, really - what's their angle?
Simple, it would help mask weakness in phone sales, which would be deadly to Apple's stock price and cost somebody their bonus.
Interesting you know about odd, unpopular languages like Haskell but don't even know about GCJ...
I like GCJ a lot and I think every Java programmer should use it in preference to the clunky interpreter/JIT combination, absent a compelling reason otherwise. Just for starters, you get real executables.
Only if you absolutely must get as much out of your hardware as physically possible should you start using C/C++...
Disagree. You should choose C++ if the speedup will be *noticeable*, not just if you need to squeeze out every last erg of CPU power. In many cases the difference between Java and C++ performance, especially startup time, can be huge. Don't even think about writing light little utilities in Java.
Slashdot Mirror
Good luck warming up my hull while I nuke your proverbial bottom.
Absolutely, seconded.
Without a doubt, QT is the reigning king of quick, pretty and cross platform GUI development. And of course you would do that with C++ if you want your code to be most widely portable, and to put your demo in the best light by starting fast and responding fast. But QT works well with many other languages, including having excellent Python support. Here is an idea: use Lua both to drive your demos and be the embedded scripting language at the same time. That would rock.
All that shows is that it takes the resources of a Google and an app architecture that acknowledges any large program written in C/C++ will leak in order to create a "snappy" app that doesn't crash.
Wow, that's funny considering A) Google's apps are generally embarrassingly overweight and sloppily coded and B) most of the best C++ apps come from small teams or inviduals. Can you spell Carmack?
That's not the same thing is it?
It might as well be for all the difference between you and a stock Apple shill.
I do have a lot of evidence you're a nice tame Apple lapdog and apologist.
Well thanks guys, but come on. $15 or a free bumper? After 18+ months?
Message from Apple to you: Fuck you very much :-)
maybe they're telling the truth about their profits from the App Store
Apple doesn't seem to attach much importance to telling the truth.
Actually, it betrays a rather extensive lack of clue about antenna design, and the elevation of form over function. It also suggests some engineers quaking in their proverbial boots instead of telling Jobs what a dumb idea it was.
Wait, I thought we called bonch a MS shill? Now that account is an Apple shill? Or, is it possible that the account wielder just has an unpopular opinion? Hell, I don't know - I thought he might have been a shill too. But at this point we seem to be labeling so many people as shills that I have a feeling we are just wrong.
I would say that bonch and jo_ham are indeed cynical Apple shills. Just my opinion.
by "weakness" in phone sales you mean the record quarters they have posted.
Is it entirely out of the question that the strength of those recent quarters was overstated?
It is not only quite possible for C++ code to beat Java in performance, startup time and memory footprint, it is quite easy.
Yup, the startup may be quicker with an app written in C++, bit all too often it's followed by a catastrophic crash.
So... why haven't I seen any of those catastrophic crashes you talk of in as long as I can reasonably remember? Oh wait, right, Chrome used to go "snap" and Firefox would oom once a week. Gosh.
Thanks for explaining. What you explained to me is that you are an Apple apologist without a moral bone in your body.
I'm pretty sure that none of the workers are slaves.
I'm not.
Naturally I say something bad about Apple, and someone modbombs it...
I used to think it was just misguided Apple fans, now I understand that they are paid spindroids. I do not think the actual effect is as they wish. Instead this behavior just makes me more inclined to express critical opinions of Apple, its business practices, and its ethics.
All things being equal, it seems that Apple is doing more than everyone else.
All things being equal and business as usual, I have come to expect reality distortion from Apple.
(corrected link)
this isn't the first time people have visited the plant and checked, or the first time Apple has had a code of practice.
And not the first time Apple has pretended to do something and not actually done anything about the deaths.
this isn't the first time people have visited the plant and checked, or the first time Apple has had a code of practice.
And http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?pagewanted=all>not the first time Apple has pretended to do something and not actually done anything about the deaths.
Apple has actually been cited as the most proactive when it comes to monitoring work conditions in the factories they contract with.
I believe that Apple is proactive about paying lip service to the need to do something, without actually doing anything substantive about the http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?pagewanted=all>factory explosions and suicides. See, you can have your cake and eat it too.
Wow, I'm surprised at the driveby downmods in this thread. I mean, I held this image of Java developers as open minded individuals, but maybe there is a significant minority that just aren't. Guys: it is a fact. If you need your program to go fast, plus be OOP, then you should write it in C++. GCC will hand you somewhere between 10% and 200% speedup "for free" on real life algorithms, plus startup time normally faster by a multiple, and a fraction of the memory footprint. And small binaries, and runtime support always installed by default.
Java has its uses. It is generally faster to develop in and less tricky for the naive programmer. You can effectively build a project faster with less skilled and less expensive, more freely available developers. That is a big deal, not to be underestimated. But if your functional requirements include fast and tight, Java is not the right choice. Well, it's faster than Python or Bash. And sometimes not even that if you include JIT time.
OK, what is it about Java programmers and not being able to tolerate factual statements about their favorite language?
Quite apart from the fact that there are applications where startup time really isn't very important...
Funny, why is it that I don't know any of those applications?
It is not only quite possible for C++ code to beat Java in performance, startup time and memory footprint, it is quite easy.
Could you please give me an example of a utility written in Java, and I will measure its startup time. Thanks.
...filing false accounts over something as trivial as "hiding" the supposed mega profit made from the online store? I mean, really - what's their angle?
Simple, it would help mask weakness in phone sales, which would be deadly to Apple's stock price and cost somebody their bonus.
Interesting you know about odd, unpopular languages like Haskell but don't even know about GCJ...
I like GCJ a lot and I think every Java programmer should use it in preference to the clunky interpreter/JIT combination, absent a compelling reason otherwise. Just for starters, you get real executables.
Optimizing Java is sort-of like optimizing a low-powered family car: It does not make a lot of sense. If you really need performance, go to C
probably true on the client, but not servers. every heard of JIT?
Also true on servers, even with the JIT.
Woah, browsers! Nice one, in that way you let out QT, which only runs on Window, Mac and Linux. And blows SWT out of the water in every way.
Only if you absolutely must get as much out of your hardware as physically possible should you start using C/C++...
Disagree. You should choose C++ if the speedup will be *noticeable*, not just if you need to squeeze out every last erg of CPU power. In many cases the difference between Java and C++ performance, especially startup time, can be huge. Don't even think about writing light little utilities in Java.