There's a definition of IPO (and an introduction to Red Hat and Linux) in the background information on the site linked from the main story. It's an interesting read...
Yes, they do. They even occasionally surpass the best of the Infocom classics. Take a look at Curses or Jigsaw for particularly fine examples of the modern craft.
Re:Obviously, you didn't research your argument.
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Java Rocks On Linux
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· Score: 1
I have 100% proof that you're wrong. I once saw a C++ program which was slow and buggy to an even greater extent. Therefore C++ sucks more than Java. QED.
One of the problems with the JFC demos shipped with the JDK is that, by their very nature, they're using most of the functionality of Swing, which places a fairly high overhead on the system, particularly when the app is first loaded. IIRC this is improved somewhat in the latest releases of the JDK.
A real-world application isn't going to use as many of the different UI components: probably just a fairly minimal subset of them (buttons, menus, labels, textfields and so on) so you won't hit the same kind of problems when you're writing a real application.
Of course, there's always the question of where the slowdown's occurring. I've seen Java UIs written by big-name companies with much Java experience that are painfully slow. I've also seen more complex Java UIs that are comfortably fast. It all comes down to how well you write your code, and there are still a lot of people out there who don't have a clue.
My one real complaint about Swing is that stupid bug that's still there which prevents applications shutting down neatly (this one). Evil hackery should not be the recommended way to make your application stop.
That's a slightly inaccurate answer, because you don't mention any of the disadvantages of using voxels.
The main disadvantage comes when you choose to view the shape at a higher resolution that that which it was created at. With a polygon (or other surface type) based model you still get a smooth image. With voxels, unless you're doing something clever to approximate the effect (which still won't work as well as using a surface definition), you don't. If you're generating your textures procedurally then you can zoom into a surface-based model as far as you like, whereas with a voxel based model eventually you'll end up with a single voxel filling your screen. Yum.
Both have their uses, and some games software in the past has used both (hey, there's a reason this card is supposed to be able to do both simultaneously, you know...), but to imply that voxels are somehow better than polygons is, IMHO, more than a little misleading.
I got the information from a nice in-depth article in Acorn User magazine. A hint for anyone wanting to keep things top secret: don't publish the details in newsstand magazines, even Acorn ones. It just doesn't have the desired effect.
Tao have always been full of hype, and as far as I can tell have never yet delivered. If they've finally got round to producing something all these years on, then great. But I gave up holding my breath at about the same time as I did for the rebirth of the real Amiga.
As for the claims about the performance of their JVM technology elsewhere in this thread, I'm sceptical. Given that Sun's produces close-to-native performance for many tasks (and if you work really hard at cheating even faster than native under Hotspot), anything that's consistently 22x faster would be a nice toy indeed.
In short, don't believe the hype, and in particular don't believe the hype from a company that's been 'just about to release' for half a decade.
This operating system was targeted at the console industry
Taos has been targetted at many things in the past. It was going to be a console OS. It was going to be the new OS for Acorn's RISC OS machines. Now it's going to be the new Amiga. Almost makes you wonder why it never did make it out in the past...
No, it's not a temporary problem. Nor, of course, is it an inherently broken platform - if it were, then I wouldn't be working on it. But it's not something that's likely to go away, for a number of reasons.
Firstly, any program the size of a JVM is going to have bugs. And due to the nature of these things, they'll be different bugs on different platforms. Which you may have to work around on those platforms. This is a problem that I've come across with real-world applications, and that even applies across different versions of the same JVM.
Secondly, in some cases the Java language spec is not tight enough to guarantee WORA. It can't be: there are some things that just won't work the same on all platforms. These will always lead to the potential of an obscure 'feature' which causes your program to fail on some Java platforms, but not others. Again, in theory it's possible for this to take place across multiple versions of the same JVM.
Does this make Java's multiplatform capabilities useless? No, of course not - it's still <EM>easier</EM> to write multiplatform applications than in most other languages. But you need to test them on all platforms you plan to deploy on, rather than assuming that the magical promise of WORA will get you by. 99% of the time it will, but you can bet that the customer's only going to remember that 1% where your program suddenly goes wrong...
Sorry, perhaps I didn't make myself entirely clear. The reference to anti-aliasing was related to the improvement of PSX games. The only enhancements provided for this are bilinear filtering of textures and improved CD access times.
The GS itself supports edge anti-aliasing for native PS2 games, although developers haven't yet started to use it, and there are also aliasing issues caused by interlacing issues at 60fps.
Facts: The 'anti-aliasing' you're talking about is in fact bi-linear texturing, and it is done in hardware (it's a 'free' effect in the GS, in fact). Makes the textures look blurrier, but smoother.
Fantavision is already available in Japan. I've got a copy on order myself - apparently it's one of the best games out so far...
I have one of these fun little toys. Software is expensive though - especially here in the UK (cheaper to double-import via the US...)
Incidentally, there's a swap trick that defeats the regional lock-out, IIRC. You have to disassemble your PS2 and hold the discs in place manually, though, so I can't see it catching on...
I'd like someone to show me an example of real software(i.e word processor, database, game, compiler, OS) that is written in Java.
Perhaps you should look for such examples yourself rather than assuming that if nobody comes and waves them under your nose they can't possibly exist. I've certainly seen databases, games and compilers written in Java. In fact, as someone has no doubt already pointed out, the java compiler that ships with the JDK is written in Java (the classes for it are in the tools.jar file - hence the requirement for this in the JSWDK classpath). http://www.jars.com is probably a good place to start looking.
What I've always hoped would happen would be that a class->native code compiler would be shipped with the jdk.
Um. There is. It's called a VM.:)
For applets it makes sense to have that capability, but there really aren't many applications that I choose to use cross-platform anyway.
Maybe not. I certainly find that I use a lot of applications on non-standard platforms, though. I've been using Argo/UML a lot under Linux recently, for example. Cross-platform binaries make a lot more sense to me than having to use Windows to run this sort of application just because everyone else does.
As it is the startup time is simply too great for my tastes.
<shrug> Compared to a lot of native applications it's not that bad, especially for applications that only load classes as required. Have you tried the newer releases of the Hotspot VM? They're meant to cut down on startup time, since the application is initially interpreted.
Re:Is Anybody Really Using Java? (Honestly!)
on
Swing
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· Score: 2
From talking to people who've been using it extensively, the 1.3 JDK has big performance increases for Swing over previous releases.
As ever, performance is quite often a question of how well the code was written and designed. Java programs written by C++ coders tend to underperform for some reason.:)
I've seen some very clunky, very slow Java UI code from certain large, well-respected companies, where the performance is entirely down to bad coding. It's a shame that this sort of incompetence is sometimes taken as reflecting poorly on Java as a whole - it's just as easy to write lousy UI code in C/C++.
Simple answer: they don't. I'm assuming this is mostly to cover their backs - Sony can now say that they made reasonable efforts to prevent abuse of the driver's features by issuing the recall and switching over to a new version immediately.
IANAL, but an enforced withdrawal probably wouldn't be allowed by law in many countries anyway, especially in those cases where the PS2 unit has been exported.
No they couldn't. The DVD driver software is only used when playing DVDs, and since it's stored on a memory card, any checks by the game software to ensure that version 1 of the driver software was not present could be defeated by removing that memory card and using another one for playing games.
Changing the hardware would be fairly unpopular, since the 980,000+ people with the old hardware would be quite upset, especially those who did 'up'grade their software...
A cunning suggestion, spoilt only by the fact that new memory cards still aren't available. It's the production of memory cards that has been causing the recent PS2 shortages. Still, you can keep your current copy installed on the memory card until you can get a card for the new driver, provided you don't play RRV.:)
PS2 titles aren't that expensive (unless you're buying them with custom hardware a la Drummania or importing them).
As for the sensible thing to do, Sony are in the process of changing their licensing structure for PSX games. Codemasters are one of the first companies to announce releases, with some games to be sold at half the price of the Platinum/Greatest Hits series.
Did you read the specs? This creature comes with an 8GB hard drive. Looks like console gamers are about to be introduced to the exciting fun and games associated with installing and uninstalling games.
Actually, you could turn the whole thing into a selling point: "More challenging than Final Fantasy 8, more nerve-wracking than Resident Evil: Code Veronica, longer lifespan than Tomb Raider - it's the X-Box game installation process, coming soon to a store near you."
Slashdot Mirror
There's a definition of IPO (and an introduction to Red Hat and Linux) in the background information on the site linked from the main story. It's an interesting read...
Yes, they do. They even occasionally surpass the best of the Infocom classics. Take a look at Curses or Jigsaw for particularly fine examples of the modern craft.
I have 100% proof that you're wrong. I once saw a C++ program which was slow and buggy to an even greater extent. Therefore C++ sucks more than Java. QED.
Do you see the gaping hole in your logic yet?
One of the problems with the JFC demos shipped with the JDK is that, by their very nature, they're using most of the functionality of Swing, which places a fairly high overhead on the system, particularly when the app is first loaded. IIRC this is improved somewhat in the latest releases of the JDK.
A real-world application isn't going to use as many of the different UI components: probably just a fairly minimal subset of them (buttons, menus, labels, textfields and so on) so you won't hit the same kind of problems when you're writing a real application.
Of course, there's always the question of where the slowdown's occurring. I've seen Java UIs written by big-name companies with much Java experience that are painfully slow. I've also seen more complex Java UIs that are comfortably fast. It all comes down to how well you write your code, and there are still a lot of people out there who don't have a clue.
My one real complaint about Swing is that stupid bug that's still there which prevents applications shutting down neatly (this one). Evil hackery should not be the recommended way to make your application stop.
That's a slightly inaccurate answer, because you don't mention any of the disadvantages of using voxels.
The main disadvantage comes when you choose to view the shape at a higher resolution that that which it was created at. With a polygon (or other surface type) based model you still get a smooth image. With voxels, unless you're doing something clever to approximate the effect (which still won't work as well as using a surface definition), you don't. If you're generating your textures procedurally then you can zoom into a surface-based model as far as you like, whereas with a voxel based model eventually you'll end up with a single voxel filling your screen. Yum.
Both have their uses, and some games software in the past has used both (hey, there's a reason this card is supposed to be able to do both simultaneously, you know...), but to imply that voxels are somehow better than polygons is, IMHO, more than a little misleading.
I got the information from a nice in-depth article in Acorn User magazine. A hint for anyone wanting to keep things top secret: don't publish the details in newsstand magazines, even Acorn ones. It just doesn't have the desired effect.
Tao have always been full of hype, and as far as I can tell have never yet delivered. If they've finally got round to producing something all these years on, then great. But I gave up holding my breath at about the same time as I did for the rebirth of the real Amiga.
As for the claims about the performance of their JVM technology elsewhere in this thread, I'm sceptical. Given that Sun's produces close-to-native performance for many tasks (and if you work really hard at cheating even faster than native under Hotspot), anything that's consistently 22x faster would be a nice toy indeed.
In short, don't believe the hype, and in particular don't believe the hype from a company that's been 'just about to release' for half a decade.
No, it's not a temporary problem. Nor, of course, is it an inherently broken platform - if it were, then I wouldn't be working on it. But it's not something that's likely to go away, for a number of reasons.
Firstly, any program the size of a JVM is going to have bugs. And due to the nature of these things, they'll be different bugs on different platforms. Which you may have to work around on those platforms. This is a problem that I've come across with real-world applications, and that even applies across different versions of the same JVM.
Secondly, in some cases the Java language spec is not tight enough to guarantee WORA. It can't be: there are some things that just won't work the same on all platforms. These will always lead to the potential of an obscure 'feature' which causes your program to fail on some Java platforms, but not others. Again, in theory it's possible for this to take place across multiple versions of the same JVM.
Does this make Java's multiplatform capabilities useless? No, of course not - it's still <EM>easier</EM> to write multiplatform applications than in most other languages. But you need to test them on all platforms you plan to deploy on, rather than assuming that the magical promise of WORA will get you by. 99% of the time it will, but you can bet that the customer's only going to remember that 1% where your program suddenly goes wrong...
The Register already has two articles, here and here.
Sorry, perhaps I didn't make myself entirely clear. The reference to anti-aliasing was related to the improvement of PSX games. The only enhancements provided for this are bilinear filtering of textures and improved CD access times.
The GS itself supports edge anti-aliasing for native PS2 games, although developers haven't yet started to use it, and there are also aliasing issues caused by interlacing issues at 60fps.
Facts: The 'anti-aliasing' you're talking about is in fact bi-linear texturing, and it is done in hardware (it's a 'free' effect in the GS, in fact). Makes the textures look blurrier, but smoother.
Fantavision is already available in Japan. I've got a copy on order myself - apparently it's one of the best games out so far...
I have one of these fun little toys. Software is expensive though - especially here in the UK (cheaper to double-import via the US...)
Incidentally, there's a swap trick that defeats the regional lock-out, IIRC. You have to disassemble your PS2 and hold the discs in place manually, though, so I can't see it catching on...
It could be more serious than that. Haven't Iomega got 'Stuff' trademarked?
How about 'Slashdot: Novel data for users of electronic calculating machines. Information that matters'?
...see how long you can actively not think 'delete all my files'. :)
From talking to people who've been using it extensively, the 1.3 JDK has big performance increases for Swing over previous releases.
:)
As ever, performance is quite often a question of how well the code was written and designed. Java programs written by C++ coders tend to underperform for some reason.
I've seen some very clunky, very slow Java UI code from certain large, well-respected companies, where the performance is entirely down to bad coding. It's a shame that this sort of incompetence is sometimes taken as reflecting poorly on Java as a whole - it's just as easy to write lousy UI code in C/C++.
Simple answer: they don't. I'm assuming this is mostly to cover their backs - Sony can now say that they made reasonable efforts to prevent abuse of the driver's features by issuing the recall and switching over to a new version immediately.
IANAL, but an enforced withdrawal probably wouldn't be allowed by law in many countries anyway, especially in those cases where the PS2 unit has been exported.
No they couldn't. The DVD driver software is only used when playing DVDs, and since it's stored on a memory card, any checks by the game software to ensure that version 1 of the driver software was not present could be defeated by removing that memory card and using another one for playing games.
Changing the hardware would be fairly unpopular, since the 980,000+ people with the old hardware would be quite upset, especially those who did 'up'grade their software...
Not particularly useful until someone comes up with a mod chip for PS2: without it, you won't be able to use your burnt copy of the disc.
A cunning suggestion, spoilt only by the fact that new memory cards still aren't available. It's the production of memory cards that has been causing the recent PS2 shortages. Still, you can keep your current copy installed on the memory card until you can get a card for the new driver, provided you don't play RRV. :)
PS2 titles aren't that expensive (unless you're buying them with custom hardware a la Drummania or importing them).
As for the sensible thing to do, Sony are in the process of changing their licensing structure for PSX games. Codemasters are one of the first companies to announce releases, with some games to be sold at half the price of the Platinum/Greatest Hits series.
If he really meant it, then I feel that makes it even funnier...
Did you read the specs? This creature comes with an 8GB hard drive. Looks like console gamers are about to be introduced to the exciting fun and games associated with installing and uninstalling games.
Actually, you could turn the whole thing into a selling point: "More challenging than Final Fantasy 8, more nerve-wracking than Resident Evil: Code Veronica, longer lifespan than Tomb Raider - it's the X-Box game installation process, coming soon to a store near you."
<sigh>
Anything that's been released in Japan other than the fifteen listed elsewhere in this thread, pretty much.
From the reports I've seen so far, here are a few of the big names: