What industry do you think this guy works in, marketing? Christ, he's a kernel hacker, not an account exec... hell, half of my days I dont even put on anything but boxers and sunglasses and I cant even compare myself to the likes of Alan Cox.
You probably think everyone around here looks like the main characters in movies like The Net and Hackers.
Not that Im not beautiful, but christ, who needs to shave when you dont leave the house for days on end?:) His wife seems very cool with it all, btw.
Just to play Devil's Advocate, and not voicing any opinion one way or another (as I dont think that is necessary), are not laws such as those preventing the use of children in pornography designed to protect the children as individuals who would be used in such productions? In the case of using CGI actors there would be no child harmed directly by the production of such material.
However, if your position is that the laws are to protect social decency and moral standards, then I would have to object, as such qualities are not (or should not) be legislatable when it comes to issues of creative production (whether you find child porno creative is irrelevant, it should still be considered an act of self-expression as all other forms of speech are protected).
Im sure Ill be flamed for this, but I dont feel the need to justify an argument based purely on principle.
Please clarify: which of my "beliefs in intellectual property pratically guarentee that things like this will come about"?
As I read the responses I am fairly certain that most of us here do not consciously support such abuses of the law... and it certainly seems that plenty also have solutions in mind, or at least a clear idea of the problem.
Please enlighten us as to the incentive I, or anyone here, has provided for Microsoft to own what should rightfully be in the public domain.
Since they indeed seem to be patenting the basic concept of style sheets rather than a technical implementation, I would still support the view that this is a ridiculous claim... afterall, ALL style sheet implementations use, in essence, the concept of preformatting undefined content blocks.
I would think that the actual logic-flow of the formatting code woould be relatively unimportant as it is akin to the "chicken before the egg" paradox: since all style sheets are meant to be applied to arbitrary content, you have two possible orders of operation... either preformat an empty region and then fill it with fetched content, or fetch the content and recursively apply style sheet rules to it. I cannot imagine that either of these is unique enough to patent.
You don't really believe that this site could maintain its scope, spirit, and userbase while trying to implement a biz model like Yahoo! do you?
This site is by and for an audience segment which prides itself on being by and for the community, there is nothing wrong with appealing to that spirit for support... some people see the value SlashDot presents as more than how much money Rob makes from it.
Not to say there isnt room to make money here, but I dont think it will be in the tradition of the few over-hyped IPOs that have actually suceeded until now.
This is no more of a "hack" than the rest of the Linux distribution world... it is different in that it uses a non-Linux oriented filesystem, but as Linux now supports 30+ filesystems in the kernel, its not even that exotic.
I wonder how it deals with the shorter filename space in HFS (31 char max), and whether it is able to perform filesystem repairs on HFS... since ive got LinuxPPC on a seperate drive I have little need for it, but Im sure you wont be stuck if you ever wanna move to a more traditional setup.
I have been thinking about the same issue for nearly a year now, since LinuxPPC managed to get their distro up and running on the new motherboards in nearly no time.
Is this Be's idea of a good marketing strategy? To openly admit that they are dumping a large majority of their original userbase over technical documentation that seems as if its trivial to begin with... to conceit inferiority of their large-capital, corporate operation to a small, loosely-banded group of PPC hacks...
I cannot imagine that Apple would sue, though it also comes as little suprise that in this period they arent forthcoming aboout hardware specs... given their position as an alt-OS, and their relative fraternity amongst others (what other major propriety platform has sponsored a Linux port, even one as curious as mkLinux??)
To Jean Louis Gassee and your Beboppers: stop your whining, Linux developers have for years dealt with a lacking of hardware documentation, vendor suport, and the like, and with your experience the only thing preventing you from continuing the PPC port (hard to say port since it was the original platform) is your infamously clouded ego.
For those not in the know, JLG was the VP of Product Engineering I believe for many years at Apple Inc., having been (once again from mem) a high ranking exec of Apple France before... a nearly psychotic leather-clad Frenchman, he was known to strike terror into anyone at Apple who opposed his vision of the Macintosh, and was apparantly responsible for so many of the wrong-turms Apple made in terms of product direction, including the destruction of several infamous, Intel-oriented Mac projects. Such battles included a functional MacOS running on top of an Intel driver layer many years ago, and the many vaporware OS projects that consumed so much of Apple's resources in the past. He may have great ideas of his, but he sure has never been able to deal with those of others.
1. Neither money nor buildings can be reproduced at zero cost.
2. There is a difference between your rights under the law and a sense of communal obligation. Of course every person has legal rights to do more or less what the please with their property; the ethical values of sharing knowledge and other intangibles is something everyone must deal with in their own way, but has nothing to do with legal rights.
I would never fight to force someone to relinquish their hold on legitimate intellectual property, however we all still may reasonably appeal to the subjects in question, and should be able to without having excuses like yours cloud the issues. If a group can provide practical reasons for not releasing sources, be it legal (which it may be in this case), moral, or simple profit-motive, great, but if it is simply a matter being unaware of the possibility, or not wanting the responsibilities involved, that is something that should be addressed by the Open Source community.
Should I take your casual suggestions to mean that everytime you hit a roadblock you just whip out an original masterpiece to perform the job of any number of products that already exist?
In any case, while many shudder at the thought, software in general, and specfically sources, are becoming very much a part of the public interest, and while no one is forced to produce anything, if they have they should certainly feel some responsibility to their community to release it rather than mothball it... it is a simple matter of encouraging progress, limiting redundant efforts, and really an ethical obligation to the community you are a part of.
Obviously this project has had an impact, seemingly negative, on the whole scene (and i do not mean console piracy), and that is something the authors must take responsibility for. Opening the source, adding value to the project beyond that of a piracy tool, maybe some kid drawing inspiration from it, could be the situations only redemption.
You are confusing two different product categories: terminal emulators, which are simple telecom apps intended to provide a range of connectivity options for microcomputers which emulate "dumb terminals"...
..then there are the emulators in question which are essentially a set of routines to allow one type of hardware to execute instructions written for a different chipset.. whether it is a single component, like Apples m68k emulator built in to their PPC-based systems, or a complete system emulator such as VirtualPC or Virtual Game Station which emulates an entire environment. One of my machines is a high-end PowerMac with VirtualPC and 6 different OSes running under it (each has its own drive file, like a subpartition of sorts). While there is always a performance hit, it provides an excellent environment for cross-platform development of any kind.:)
Gee, how dispicable, someone might code products that actually show how ridiculous the platform wars can be by eroding the platform-gap... given that this was developed in a double-blind environment and no IP was stolen, my heart doesnt hurt for Sony one bit...
... in fact, reminds me of another infamous standards battle way back in the early 80s... as it turned out then, the only people who lost were consumer by being stuck with inferior technology and Sony for creating a closed market and limiting their own potential userbase. How many kids these days even know what BetaMax was?
Do you trust a system to work for you that would allow this to begin with? I write my congressmen all the time, its a good way to vent, but basically ineffective... look at their handling of our present impeachment, did they vote according to their consituents? If they would stage a coup d' etat in gross violation of public opinion do you really think they give a rats ass about anyone whos not a scumbag oppressor like themselves? Maybe if this were an issue about the freedom of lawyers we might get a response from our representatives.
Im sick of non-violent protest in the streets of San Jose. Im sick of getting whooped and bitten by Microsoft security thugs and their dogs at OSS rallys... i want blood. This country has gone on a major downturn as more and more companies realize that they can own every facet of our lives and even charge us royalties when we figure out a better way down the line.
This trend is not gonna stop, i dare say, with popular opinion and our system of "democracy" which seems to ignore, blatantly, the wishes of the people and their clear best interests.
Go ahead and legislate the end of corruption, power-tripping, and greed, im sure itll work... it is a noble pursuit. But Ill be oout there, living and breathing the same because oppressive, unconstitutional, and plainly WRONG laws dont even deserve the attention. And they can have their 1% when i can stuff it down their collective throats with my bare hands.
"Shut up, be happy." - Jello Biafra, Ice-T, Freedom of Speech (Just Watch What You Say)
WHY is it that otherwise proud geeks are often willing to discount their own savvy in order to continuously trash Apple? All I know is that, after spending years with every kind of box imaginable, if I can't fix a given Mac, or INSTALL MEMORY IN LESS THAN 10 minutes, then SHOOT ME NOW. But one thing is for sure: you won't find me posting to SlashDot about my convenient anti-skills.
Thanks for making all Mac users look like uninformed, quasi-religiously blinded, idiots. While the new G3 series makes a good Photoshop workstation, and will likely be my next, good GOD, please get a clue. And have you ever even run Linux on a PowerMac?
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What industry do you think this guy works in, marketing? Christ, he's a kernel hacker, not an account exec... hell, half of my days I dont even put on anything but boxers and sunglasses and I cant even compare myself to the likes of Alan Cox.
:) His wife seems very cool with it all, btw.
You probably think everyone around here looks like the main characters in movies like The Net and Hackers.
Not that Im not beautiful, but christ, who needs to shave when you dont leave the house for days on end?
Go natty dread geeks!
Just to play Devil's Advocate, and not voicing any opinion one way or another (as I dont think that is necessary), are not laws such as those preventing the use of children in pornography designed to protect the children as individuals who would be used in such productions? In the case of using CGI actors there would be no child harmed directly by the production of such material.
:)
However, if your position is that the laws are to protect social decency and moral standards, then I would have to object, as such qualities are not (or should not) be legislatable when it comes to issues of creative production (whether you find child porno creative is irrelevant, it should still be considered an act of self-expression as all other forms of speech are protected).
Im sure Ill be flamed for this, but I dont feel the need to justify an argument based purely on principle.
Hey! I didnt bring it up
Please clarify: which of my "beliefs in intellectual property pratically guarentee that things like this will come about"?
As I read the responses I am fairly certain that most of us here do not consciously support such abuses of the law... and it certainly seems that plenty also have solutions in mind, or at least a clear idea of the problem.
Please enlighten us as to the incentive I, or anyone here, has provided for Microsoft to own what should rightfully be in the public domain.
Since they indeed seem to be patenting the basic concept of style sheets rather than a technical implementation, I would still support the view that this is a ridiculous claim... afterall, ALL style sheet implementations use, in essence, the concept of preformatting undefined content blocks.
I would think that the actual logic-flow of the formatting code woould be relatively unimportant as it is akin to the "chicken before the egg" paradox: since all style sheets are meant to be applied to arbitrary content, you have two possible orders of operation... either preformat an empty region and then fill it with fetched content, or fetch the content and recursively apply style sheet rules to it. I cannot imagine that either of these is unique enough to patent.
You don't really believe that this site could maintain its scope, spirit, and userbase while trying to implement a biz model like Yahoo! do you?
This site is by and for an audience segment which prides itself on being by and for the community, there is nothing wrong with appealing to that spirit for support... some people see the value SlashDot presents as more than how much money Rob makes from it.
Not to say there isnt room to make money here, but I dont think it will be in the tradition of the few over-hyped IPOs that have actually suceeded until now.
This is no more of a "hack" than the rest of the Linux distribution world... it is different in that it uses a non-Linux oriented filesystem, but as Linux now supports 30+ filesystems in the kernel, its not even that exotic.
I wonder how it deals with the shorter filename space in HFS (31 char max), and whether it is able to perform filesystem repairs on HFS... since ive got LinuxPPC on a seperate drive I have little need for it, but Im sure you wont be stuck if you ever wanna move to a more traditional setup.
I have been thinking about the same issue for nearly a year now, since LinuxPPC managed to get their distro up and running on the new motherboards in nearly no time.
Is this Be's idea of a good marketing strategy? To openly admit that they are dumping a large majority of their original userbase over technical documentation that seems as if its trivial to begin with... to conceit inferiority of their large-capital, corporate operation to a small, loosely-banded group of PPC hacks...
I cannot imagine that Apple would sue, though it also comes as little suprise that in this period they arent forthcoming aboout hardware specs... given their position as an alt-OS, and their relative fraternity amongst others (what other major propriety platform has sponsored a Linux port, even one as curious as mkLinux??)
To Jean Louis Gassee and your Beboppers: stop your whining, Linux developers have for years dealt with a lacking of hardware documentation, vendor suport, and the like, and with your experience the only thing preventing you from continuing the PPC port (hard to say port since it was the original platform) is your infamously clouded ego.
For those not in the know, JLG was the VP of Product Engineering I believe for many years at Apple Inc., having been (once again from mem) a high ranking exec of Apple France before... a nearly psychotic leather-clad Frenchman, he was known to strike terror into anyone at Apple who opposed his vision of the Macintosh, and was apparantly responsible for so many of the wrong-turms Apple made in terms of product direction, including the destruction of several infamous, Intel-oriented Mac projects. Such battles included a functional MacOS running on top of an Intel driver layer many years ago, and the many vaporware OS projects that consumed so much of Apple's resources in the past. He may have great ideas of his, but he sure has never been able to deal with those of others.
two flaws in your argument:
1. Neither money nor buildings can be reproduced at zero cost.
2. There is a difference between your rights under the law and a sense of communal obligation. Of course every person has legal rights to do more or less what the please with their property; the ethical values of sharing knowledge and other intangibles is something everyone must deal with in their own way, but has nothing to do with legal rights.
I would never fight to force someone to relinquish their hold on legitimate intellectual property, however we all still may reasonably appeal to the subjects in question, and should be able to without having excuses like yours cloud the issues. If a group can provide practical reasons for not releasing sources, be it legal (which it may be in this case), moral, or simple profit-motive, great, but if it is simply a matter being unaware of the possibility, or not wanting the responsibilities involved, that is something that should be addressed by the Open Source community.
ouch.
Should I take your casual suggestions to mean that everytime you hit a roadblock you just whip out an original masterpiece to perform the job of any number of products that already exist?
In any case, while many shudder at the thought, software in general, and specfically sources, are becoming very much a part of the public interest, and while no one is forced to produce anything, if they have they should certainly feel some responsibility to their community to release it rather than mothball it... it is a simple matter of encouraging progress, limiting redundant efforts, and really an ethical obligation to the community you are a part of.
Obviously this project has had an impact, seemingly negative, on the whole scene (and i do not mean console piracy), and that is something the authors must take responsibility for. Opening the source, adding value to the project beyond that of a piracy tool, maybe some kid drawing inspiration from it, could be the situations only redemption.
You are confusing two different product categories: terminal emulators, which are simple telecom apps intended to provide a range of connectivity options for microcomputers which emulate "dumb terminals"...
:)
..then there are the emulators in question which are essentially a set of routines to allow one type of hardware to execute instructions written for a different chipset.. whether it is a single component, like Apples m68k emulator built in to their PPC-based systems, or a complete system emulator such as VirtualPC or Virtual Game Station which emulates an entire environment. One of my machines is a high-end PowerMac with VirtualPC and 6 different OSes running under it (each has its own drive file, like a subpartition of sorts). While there is always a performance hit, it provides an excellent environment for cross-platform development of any kind.
Gee, how dispicable, someone might code products that actually show how ridiculous the platform wars can be by eroding the platform-gap... given that this was developed in a double-blind environment and no IP was stolen, my heart doesnt hurt for Sony one bit...
... in fact, reminds me of another infamous standards battle way back in the early 80s... as it turned out then, the only people who lost were consumer by being stuck with inferior technology and Sony for creating a closed market and limiting their own potential userbase. How many kids these days even know what BetaMax was?
Do you trust a system to work for you that would allow this to begin with? I write my congressmen all the time, its a good way to vent, but basically ineffective... look at their handling of our present impeachment, did they vote according to their consituents? If they would stage a coup d' etat in gross violation of public opinion do you really think they give a rats ass about anyone whos not a scumbag oppressor like themselves? Maybe if this were an issue about the freedom of lawyers we might get a response from our representatives.
Im sick of non-violent protest in the streets of San Jose. Im sick of getting whooped and bitten by Microsoft security thugs and their dogs at OSS rallys... i want blood. This country has gone on a major downturn as more and more companies realize that they can own every facet of our lives and even charge us royalties when we figure out a better way down the line.
This trend is not gonna stop, i dare say, with popular opinion and our system of "democracy" which seems to ignore, blatantly, the wishes of the people and their clear best interests.
Go ahead and legislate the end of corruption, power-tripping, and greed, im sure itll work... it is a noble pursuit. But Ill be oout there, living and breathing the same because oppressive, unconstitutional, and plainly WRONG laws dont even deserve the attention. And they can have their 1% when i can stuff it down their collective throats with my bare hands.
"Shut up, be happy." - Jello Biafra, Ice-T, Freedom of Speech (Just Watch What You Say)
WHY is it that otherwise proud geeks are often willing to discount their own savvy in order to continuously trash Apple? All I know is that, after spending years with every kind of box imaginable, if I can't fix a given Mac, or INSTALL MEMORY IN LESS THAN 10 minutes, then SHOOT ME NOW. But one thing is for sure: you won't find me posting to SlashDot about my convenient anti-skills.
Thanks for making all Mac users look like uninformed, quasi-religiously blinded, idiots. While the new G3 series makes a good Photoshop workstation, and will likely be my next, good GOD, please get a clue. And have you ever even run Linux on a PowerMac?
> Who wants to download a 6 CD set off the 'net?
Me! If it were available. Jeez, like a dialup connection costs me anything except time.