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LinuxPPC Live 4.0
LinuxPPC has posted LinuxPPC Live 4.0, which boots Linux from HFS-formatted (not HFS+) drives. The Windows-equivalent has been Slackware's ZipSlack, which boots Linux from FAT32-formatted drives.
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I took a look at this a few nights ago. Pretty neat, the MacOS shuts down entirely, including spinning down the hard drive. If you don't have the folder names LinuxPPC in the root level of your hard disk it eats shit, though. ANyhow, after a few attempts I found a pseudo-faq and got it to boot into KDE. For the first time I had ever even SEEN KDE (my linux friend was a non-gui user.. but that was some time ago.) it was very nice. GIMP, netscape, lots of goodies. Very neat stuff for a 40 meg DL. It worked fine up until I tried GIMP and did a gradient fill.. then about 5000+ error messages popped up at the rate of 10 or so a second and I decided to cold restart the machine. Booted fine into the MacOS after that. For a first-time user it was a bit scary at first.. the booting was so different thatn anything I had seen before and it grinded the living shit out of my HD. Just that B&W screen with the X-ed out cursor and a whole lotta noise. THen the picture of the vegetables came up. Neat.
BTW, please forgive the writing- I just woke up and my brain hasn't.
-Jon
This has nothing to do with Crapple
There are a lot of PRO APPLE people here on slashdot. Any time you see a Apple story you'll see a whole lot of comments PRO and CON. Dumping on Apple is easy for all those people dual booting WINDOWS 95.
I would love to run Linux on a PPC. Gotta wait for a price cut.
hmmm....a little ambiguous aren't you. Can't tell if you're slamming the iMac or praising it.....or really WHAT you're trying to say.
If it's a slam...it's pretty weak since iMacs are flying off the shelves still. If you're going to slam next time, make yourself a little clear and just go for the throat!
If it's praise, again, you're not really clear.
Or are you just wasting everyone's time? In that case, you hit the nail on the head!
Check out this site for pics of KDE with QT 2.0,
a platinum look, and a Mac style tool bar:
ttp://www.jorsm.com/~mosfet/kde-plat.gif
"I think overall Windows has a much better interface than Mac OS. And most people agree."
.dll's that seem to multiply like rabbits and yet don't really have a specific purpose. I like how all the files that the Apps/viruses place on the HD are so hard to find out what and where they were installed from.
They do? What planet are you living on again?
Yeah, Windows has a much better interface...I like how it forget's where it's shortcuts point to when you simply move a folder from one place to another. I like how all Windows Apps act like a virus...putting crap EVERYWHERE on your hard drive and system directory. I like how Windows has all these
I could go on and on...but you've been made a fool of enough...shame on you. Just because a ton of people use the interface doesn't make it the best. Remember, the same people used Windows 3.11....and even you have to admit that was a fucking joke.
you have only begun to understand!
soon you will learn that all hype = worthless
thats the whole point
If you'd like an analogy your Mac-addled brain can comprehend: Linux is to XFree86 as DOS was/is to Windows 3.x.
Arrogance seems to be a cross platform issue. Really it is a good thing. Giving Mac users the chance to experience an alternate OS can help give perspective to the various strengths and weaknesses that MacOs and Linux have. I think that the point of this is to give Linux more exposure, and it does a pretty good job except that it crashes and burns on my machine. It seems to work for most, anyway, and I don't really need it since I already have a Linux partition (which I think might be the problem). The arrogance of Mac users show to the x86 world is really no more severe than the arrogance that x86 users show to the Mac world. If I didn't have a Mac I'd say the latter was worse, but I try to keep perspective.
A first time user is obviously not gonig to be able to distinguish the various aspects of the OS. Quit badgering, and offer polite corrections, or help. Gladly the Linux community is not mirrored in what you creeps are up to or it would have disintegrated a long time ago.
Try to pay attention.
He was talking about the whole user-computer interaction/experience, not the coding and design structure of some of the GUI binaries.
Patronising attitudes look even sillier when you miss the point. Just a thought.
Ummm...The new Blue & White (Yosemite) machines have an ADB port on the back. He could use an ADB mouse and Keyboard and have Linux NOW and not have to wait for 1st rev USB support...
Just a thought...
I hope this means the bugs in Linux's HFS filesystem support are gone, 'cause last I heard writing to an HFS filesystem from inside Linux was very very dangerous.
I haven't used PPC Linux in about a year, but at that point any writing I did to an HFS filesystem caused serious corruption. Recent comments I've seen in the PPC Linux newsgroup suggest things have not improved much since then. Reading files has been safe for awhile, but writing is still dangerous.
MkLinux has supported multiple processors for about a year now, but I don't think LinuxPPC does.
I don't know if that could have anything to do with your crashes. MkLinux's single-CPU kernel runs just fine on a multi-CPU system, but I don't know if there are any issues with LinuxPPC.
The bugs are all but gone, I commonly write to my hfs drives from Linux/ppc without running into any corruption. Supposedly there are still some problems with "mv", but I haven't encountered them. This is with kernel 2.2.0-final
Out of all the things you could have chosen, you picked the Start Menu? Can you name any features, any at all, that the Start Menu provides but the Apple Menu doesn't? There are quite a few of the opposite:
Folders don't provide sub menus.
Shortcuts to folders don't provide sub menus.
There is no central location for its contents. You have to go through the registry for some stuff, the Start Menu folder for other stuff.
If Microsoft was going to rip off the Apple Menu, they could have at least copied it correctly!
You're an idiot.
.dll's WAS a slam about the interface....about the why they're all over the place cluttering up my HD...NOT about anything else. Plus it was just one example.
The mention of the
I also mentioned how the shortcuts wouldn't work, also mentioned how apps act like viruses that are almost impossible to get rid of, also mentioned how things are installed in a confusing way that puts things everywhere.
I also didn't mention the brain dead interface to accessing other computers on a network or a server, or how if you do manage to uninstall a program it has the potential of screwing up another program on your HD simply because it deleted something that it needed.
Why can I just drag the application's folder to the trash and be totally done with it?
I know it's been said many times, many ways: Windows95/98 = MacOS 88
mirrors linuxppc
Thank you. HFS-formatted harddisk booting is nice. Is there any development for CD boot? All new PowerPC based machines sold by Apple is HFS+ formatted. If you get it working with HFS+ formatted drives, maybe Apple will offer `LinuxPPC Live 4.0' add-on optional with BTO. Apple is going to release Rhapsody as Mac OS X Server, with no going offer below $999... so at this point Apple could just advertise Linux+GNUstep to support hardware sales for scientific user, students..
The ftp server has been down (clogged) ever since they announced this. Does anyone have a clean mirror of this distribution?
-Ben
status update from mozilla.org says that it has "achieved the main goal of the milestone which was to remove the major roadblocks to development work on Linux and Mac. These two platforms have seen some dramatic improvements in stability and functionally thanks to a number of great contributions. "
download the sources, memorize, hack, build .
Does anyone know when USB will be supported? I'm trying to moce my neighbor to Linux, but he just got a new 400mhz Yosemite box, and needs USB for sophisticated things like his keyboard. Anyone know where I can find info on this?
-luge
USB will be supported in LinuxPPC 5.0 - you can find information about it here. The skinny on it is that support is an ongoing project, but progressing rapidly (with people like Alan Cox helping out, even!)
Since I'm running on an HFS+ drive I hoped to be able to create a PGPdisk volume (which is HFS) and boot LinuxPPC 4.0 from that, but no go. Sigh.
Since all modern Apple PowerPCs are shipped with HFS+ drives I really hope this is the next hack du jour.
Other than this oversight, Linux without partitioning is a fantastic idea!
Posted by ChristianC:
:('.
I downloaded LinuxPPC Live from a Hotline server about 3 hours ago. I followed all the (sparse) instructions and all i got was, halfway thru the booting, the message 'I can't seem to find the Live filesystem. Sorry
I tried various combinations of settings in the 'Boot LinuxPPC' before nearly giving up. Finally, i burnt the LinuxPPC folder to a CD and tried to boot it. It worked, but it took over 20 minutes to boot! While i was running it any disk activity took fucking ages. I'd launch an app and it would pop-up five mins later. LinuxPPC live includes Gimp, various minor apps and games, and Netscape (though this was pointless because the required networking utilities weren't included)
My first impressions of Linux are:
the interface is laughably bad. Its ironic how much it looks and feels like Windows considering the amount of animosity many Linux users feel towards Microsoft. Visually, it seems to have been designed by programmers not designers. And its messy and inconsistant. The 'browser-type' file-navigation is shit.
i was impressessed by Gimp, though in its current state its useless for publishing work
i liked having multiple desktops. i could see this could have its uses. Will OS X implement this?
Have you even used a Mac??
The start menu?!?!?!
Have you ever seen the Apple menu? Much easier to add to it and customize it that the "Start" menu. Also, it looks more like a button than a menu.
It's far easier to forgive your enemy after you get even with him.
This is no more of a "hack" than the rest of the Linux distribution world... it is different in that it uses a non-Linux oriented filesystem, but as Linux now supports 30+ filesystems in the kernel, its not even that exotic.
I wonder how it deals with the shorter filename space in HFS (31 char max), and whether it is able to perform filesystem repairs on HFS... since ive got LinuxPPC on a seperate drive I have little need for it, but Im sure you wont be stuck if you ever wanna move to a more traditional setup.
Crapple? Please. I'm a viscious Mac-defender and I've done better Apple insults than that. My girlfriend, who's by her own admission less of a techie than any of us (though she prefers Macs but due to circumstances beyond her control has to use a Win98 box) has done better than that.
/. use it before, though.
My personal favorite: "Lemon Computer." Never heard anyone on
I've visited the school recently. Today most of those PowerMacs are gone. History, because of the Mac OS.
Doubtful. More likely because of M$ FUD, which plagues Mac and Linux alike (in fact, thanks to the fact that M$ doesn't really take Linux seriously yet, the linux community has been spared much of the FUD that's hit MacOS, and yes I do know how much FUD is heaped on both OS's on a daily basis).
I think overall Windows has a much better interface than Mac OS. And most people agree.
Most people where? Even among Windows users, every last person I've ever talked to about the issue has perferred the Mac interface hands-down. Even the Windows developers I've talked to (and I've talked to more than you might think) prefer MacOS almost unanimously, developing for Windoze only because that's where the money is.
Linux... well, I don't know about Linux. I use it myself, and admittedly you can get the interface to the point where it far exceeds Windows and approaches MacOS (after a great deal of hassle) but it still has more than a little work to do. The rest prefer some other operating system.
Cool...I can't wait for 5.0 to come out. I've run into that deal (again) where KDE-MkLinux stops responding to kpanel commands for non-root users. I figure, instead of wrestling with it, I'll wait and just reinstall. I just have to remember to keep a terminal open when I log out...
BTW, does Linuxppc have that thing where making a kppp connection blanks out your screen? I'd be happy to be rid of that.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I can't repartition with something like Partition Magic, because no Macintosh Equvilant exists. Or does it?
SilverLining will allow you to resize partitions non-destructively, and also makes A/UX partitions so you don't have to mess with pdisk. Unfortunately, it replaces the original driver. And you have to pay for it.
A Mac version of FIPS would be great.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Yeah that's it. I happen to LOVE the MacOS interface. Sure MacOS itself is technologically crap, but its interface rocks. It's amazingly consistant, easy to use, and very slick. Sure there are quite a few limitations like the fact that it's not designed for multitasking, but you get over them quicly when you see how easy it is to configure the whole box.
By the same token, it's sad really how unreliable MacOS is. It has (had?) such promise but it doesn't manage to stay running very long. I remember using a PM 7100 with an early version of OpenTransport.. yikes that thing was crash happy. But at least it was easy to use (and I love the MacOS 8 Icons..). Installing stuff like system enablers (OS patches of sorts) rocked.. the whole extensions modle where you drag 'n' drop drivers was very slick. Win95 is such a hack in comparison. And oh yea the ejectable floppy is amazing. I'm really sad Windows doesn't have that software (Although I've seen some software.. FastTrack for DOS I think it was that does auto detection of floppy disks..).
I am glad to be rid of Win95/98/NT. If I could run MacOS on my computer natively....
The revolution will be mocked
You can make a disk image that would be ext2 on top of the HFS filesystem. Saves you from all of the chances of filesystem corruption too (the HFS support in linux is still experimental).
Dogma: Dead (mostly because your Karma ran it over)
I'm not sure if there is an utility to convert HFS+ disks back to HFS (I know PlusMaker lets you go the other way, but the site doesn't mention HFS+ -> HFS). However, when you erase a disk you have the choice of the format. If you don't have a program that lets you partition non-destructively, then you just have to back up, and then repartition.
-- mihai
Sorry if there was a message without a body.
My friend whose a major linux user on the intel side says that this is hack, like MonekeyLinux, a version of linux that will run on FAT32 drives, but will take a performance hit, but otherwise will be a fully functional version of linux, but no one uses it anymore because they can get Partition Magic, and MonkeyLinux is slow, and is "a hack".
What I want to know is this: Is this just a demo? Can I actually make this usuable, in the sense that I make the HD really big (it mentions a requirement of 105+ Megs) like a 500MB partition? Can I use swap? How functional is this? And does anyone know if LinuxPPC will supoort these "Live" versions? Some of us can't/won't repartition for an OS, even if the want/need it. For example, I share my computer with other people, and currently, 60% of all the documents are theirs. I can't repartition with something like Partition Magic, because no Macintosh Equvilant exists. Or does it? I am planning on getting this, because I like to program for linux (its easy to learn, and such a powerful development environment) and willing to live with the performance hit if I can just have LinuxPPC use a big HD image on my HFS Hard Drive. Does anyone know if they are planning on keeping this alive? And making it usable? It is either this, or re-installing Virtual PC and then installing linux over windoze95, and believe me, the performance hit of VirtualPC is big...while Linux (native code) wouldn't be.
I don't want to clog up slashdot with your replys. Reply to the fake email address above, but take out the "nospam" part. Thanks for any/all info.
--
Mac-Head? Me? Why Thank you!
usb support will be included with linuxppc 5.0 but afaik not even 5.0 will run on the yosemites.
I am just a newbie, but maybe I can offer suggestions.
First, I noticed that the vmlinux file was downloading as text. I switched to an FTP program and made sure that I wasn't downloading text.
Second, did the unzip of livefilesystem.gz go through alright? Mine expanded to a generic 100MB document. Also, vmlinux downloaded as a 2.2MB generic doc.
Third, does Boot LinuxPPC show up with the icon as an application? and does the BootX Settings file show up as a Boot LinuxPPC document?
Lastly, make sure that the folder is named LinuxPPC and is at the root level of your startup disk.
Also, after I logout of Linux, I get a smiley face on reboot, but no boot sequence. I booted from CD, reset the startup disk in the control panel, and rebooted. Mac OS came up no problem.
"The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
As I mentioned earlier, I am just a #%&* Linux Newbie, but let me say, that this is not a Linux interface, but a KDE interface. As I understand it, different destop managers act and look different(ly). I thought the interface was preety cool. As a Mac fan, I was feeling my way around, but I could sense the power of Linux and I know that I am getting hooked.
Booting from the CD is not recommended, I will repost some thoughts that I gave earlier:
First, I noticed that the vmlinux file was downloading as text. I switched to an FTP program and made sure that I wasn't downloading text.
Second, did the unzip of livefilesystem.gz go through alright? Mine expanded to a generic 100MB document. Also, vmlinux downloaded as a 2.2MB generic doc.
Third, does Boot LinuxPPC show up with the icon as an application? and does the BootX Settings file show up as a Boot LinuxPPC document?
Lastly, make sure that the folder is named LinuxPPC and is at the root level of your startup disk.
Also, after I logout of Linux, I get a smiley face on reboot, but no boot sequence. I booted from CD, reset the startup disk in the control panel, and rebooted. Mac OS came up no problem.
"The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
Admittedly, this is a LinuxPPC question more than anything, but this release is what tempted me to try the thing out.
My system:
Power Mac 8500 with a dual 200 MHz processor upgrade
64 MB RAM
Linux PPC Live file system on an external Jaz drive
Linux has successfully booted and KDE has completely launched.
I can run programs from the command line to my heart's content, launch
additional X windows & use the keyboard to switch among them.
BUT, after a certain amount of mouse movement, KDE will freeze solid and I
have to power cycle to get anywhere. (Unless there's a magic KDE server
restart key sequence that I don't know.)
I've done a fair amount of work with i386 Linux and none at all with
LinuxPPC or KDE. It's unclear from http://www.linuxppc.org/hardware/ whether
dual processors are supported or not. It's also unclear to me whether this
freeze has anything to do with that.
Additional datum: switching from a high-resolution (Mouse Systems ADB Little
Mouse) to a regular Apple mouse caused the freeze to take longer to occur.
Anybody have any thoughts on this?
This finally give mac users acess to linux without reformatting thier hard drive. Now some not so linux-savvy mac users can give linux a shot! Good work linuxPPC people!
I heard there is a mirror of LinuxPPC Live on the hotline site: 5500.avara.net. I dunno what your talking about when you say a clean mirror.
well, this is just regarding one of your points...
:)
KDE looks like win95. that doesn't mean that *Linux*
looks like win95. check out http://www.windowmaker.org or
http://www.enlightenment.org. the fact that linux
can be configured to look like pretty much anything
(including win95) is one of its strengths.
-Where the hell is my army of me!