"The police told me they'd be back if it happened again," That doesn't sound like standard investigative work and ruling out innocent people to me. It sounds more like a threat.
Actually it does. If some random criminal event you are supposedly unrelated to keeps occurring on your property then obviously the police need to investigate things further. It doesn't mean you are guilty, it means they don't full understand the mechanisms taking place and need to figure it out.
Running an exit node might provide plausibly deniability in court though.
That's why the police searched the laptop. If files were present it wouldn't be from Tor. The IP is just probably cause for a search, Tor exit node or not.
Poor analogy. Tor exit nodes don't store anything. It's a relay that people use in order to obscure the place they came from.
Here's a better analogy. Imagine if a wanted criminal ran inside an open-door city shop in order to dodge the police, and the police then charged the shop owners as an accessory to evading law enforcement.
Poor analogy. Here is a better analogy.
Imagine if a wanted criminal ran inside an open-door city shop in order to dodge the police, and the police questioned the shop owners to confirm that they were the shop owners and not the criminal.
What does any of that have to do with police abuse against people doing nothing illegal?
Police are responsible for **investigating** crimes. Sometimes this means surprising people so that evidence can not be destroyed. From the summary it seems that the the residents told the police they operate a TOR exit node, the police looked at a laptop and left. The resident is a bit naive thinking that being on a public list of TOR exit nodes should have made the search unnecessary. Being on that list does not indicate that the resident is not the uploader the police are looking for, just that they are unlikely to be that person but it still needs to be **investigated** to rule them out. That what a lot of **investigation** is, ruling innocent people out as suspects.
I don't think Boot Camp has any support for Linux. Personally I just run Linux in a VM rather than try to figure out triple boot. That is when the *nix stuff that I am doing is Linux specific. Often its not so I can just use the Mac's native BSD environment.
However I would expect that the motivation has little to nothing to do with encouraging Windows usage and more to do with not wanting to spend the money and time testing their hardware under Linux.
And yet, they spent money ant time making ACPI return different values for Linux instead of returning the same ones that Windows gets and if Linux fails to work with them then to hell with it.
Yes. Testing ends at verifying Linux can not install rather than test the various Linux distribution for correct functionality on all subsystems (ex wifi). If you take an active step to support the installation of Linux then you have some responsibility to see that Linux runs to some reasonable degree, even if technically unsupported. You will get fewer support calls/emails if it can't install and many more if it doesn't run correctly.
Plus if the cited post is correct about a driver not being ready then Linux support may have been moved from v1.0 of the firmware to v1.1. If would not make business sense to slip the launch date of a Windows laptop because a Linux driver is not ready yet.
Pro vs Consumer hardware. A Pro product having more money for testing and support. Plus the Linux community being more of a Pro thing than a Consumer thing.
Now, please let me load Linux onto any Chromebook. That's what I really want.
That is what I did when I wanted a Linux laptop, repurposed a Chromebook.
Why? Because Windows laptops are well know to have Linux compatibility problems. There is no existing reasonable expectation of Linux compatibility for laptops as there is for desktops. Laptop compatibility is still a Linux wish list item. Buyers still have to do their homework.
As explained in the slashdot story from 3.5 hours ago...
A reddit poster offered this, in his link Lenovo says the dev team is working on it:
""[–]0xFFFFFF 89 points 7 hours ago*
Levono is aware of the issue and fixing it: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
It is on hackernews, where people are being rational and theorizing that this is not microsofts fault. More like best-buy rep doesn't know what he talks about and the SSD doesn't have support drivers in linux kernal.. Or lenova messed up their bios implementation.
Luckily we have the reddit witchhunt in full force, so we can make uninformed rants!
Note: Every single previous similar scenario about linux being locked out has not been microsofts fault, which is why people are sceptical that this is the case this time..
I also have a Signature Edition laptop, it runs linux fine.."" https://www.reddit.com/r/linux...
The Lenovo link has an official post saying:
"Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install Options
07-27-2016 10:04 AM
Thank you for confirming it is still not possible to install Linux on Yoga 900-13ISK2 systems.
This issue has been escalated to the Development team. I am unable to offer a timeframe for fix at this stage in the investigation. With previous cases, BIOS fixes have been delivered anywhere from several weeks to several months.
I will post again when I have more information on the investigation." https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
I dispute this notion that given no indication of Linux support on packaging, on the website, on the support forums, etc it is a "buyer beware" situation.
I've yet to see any computer list other operating systems on a retail box... I've definitely never seen logos of Linux or BSD on any machine anywhere, except ones that ship from companies like System76. So no I don't think it's sufficient to blame the customer here.
You misunderstood what I wrote, apologies if I was not clear enough.
By "box" I am referring to the retail packing not the system case. Furthermore I also indicated that not seeing Linux on the packaging would cause me to check the website and forums. If **none of these** mention Linux then the expectation of Linux support on a laptop is bogus, laptops have a very troublesome history with Linux and there is no reasonable history of it just working as there is with desktops.
Look at the specs for your system and/or motherboard, in particular the chipset it is using. Look for anything mentioning "M.2". My Z170 chipset mentions "M.2 x4" and "both SATA & PCIE mode" so I should be ready.
Well, the fact that you installed your own operating system means they're off the hook for support. Support can't be the reason. Maybe it has something to do with wanting to make sure you use their bloatware.
I'm not sure, if they filled out the Linux section of the DSDT that might imply Linux support. At least to a hostile lawyer, they did make an overt act to support Linux after all. Making the user edit that info might make the company lawyers happier. I once had a small project that needed to be under close scrutiny by our corporate attorneys. Fortunately the two I dealt with were nice people and somewhat technical but even under those ideal circumstances it was... uh... interesting. As an engineer I had very different ideas about what exposed our company to risk. Once they explained I understood where they were coming from, a bit paranoid but not nonsense.
Not saying it isn't possible. But those are devices that the OS maker did not intend to be able to run Linux or any other OS but their own.
Macs not only support Windows but Apple offers a utility, Boot Camp, to assist in installing Windows on a Mac and configure dual booting macOS or Windows and to install Windows drivers for Apple specific hardware and services.
The biggest problem here is that it wasn't even disclosed to the buyer as being a "signature series". I am against lock down, but lack of disclosure is an even bigger problem. OEMs ought to be disclosing whether or not their hardware has proprietary Windows drivers, however they don't do it. It goes beyond "let the buyer beware," a lot of times the info isn't there.
Did the box list only Windows under supported operating systems? Did the box only have Windows logos on it and no Linux logos? I'd say if there is not an indication of Linux support one should not assume so. After examine a retail box I would check the technical information on the website. If still no indication of Linux support I would move on to a different product. I dispute this notion that given no indication of Linux support on packaging, on the website, on the support forums, etc it is a "buyer beware" situation. I would further dispute an argument that it is traditional for PCs to support Linux, while that may be true for desktops to a very large degree it has not been true in general for laptops. Laptops have a long history of compatibility problems. I realize this is a big wishlist item for Linux users but lets not misrepresent the situation as anything more than that, a still unfulfilled wish.
Better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.
I'm also wondering if it was a schedule slip issue. Not ready for 1.0 and they didn't want to slip the schedule so this support tasks got moved to the 1.1 schedule.
Manufacturers have a long history of semi-deliberately screwing up linux support on laptops.
Not surprising. However I would expect that the motivation has little to nothing to do with encouraging Windows usage and more to do with not wanting to spend the money and time testing their hardware under Linux. Requiring the user to make a change as you describe is probably designed to get them off the hook for providing any support.
You offer an interesting workaround. Sadly my old school required Dell laptop has died so I can't investigate its compatibility problems. After graduation I tried to repurpose it as a Linux system and it had the typical problems, wifi, etc. My "workaround" was to buy a Chromebook and to install Linux on it. It was a rather cheap Chromebook too and it worked well. I don't need a Linux laptop often, I mostly use a BYO desktop and rarely have I had problems in these last 20 years.
"Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install
Options
07-27-2016 10:04 AM
Thank you for confirming it is still not possible to install Linux on Yoga 900-13ISK2 systems.
This issue has been escalated to the Development team. I am unable to offer a timeframe for fix at this stage in the investigation. With previous cases, BIOS fixes have been delivered anywhere from several weeks to several months.
I will post again when I have more information on the investigation." https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
A reddit poster offered this, in his link Lenovo says the dev team is working on it:
""[–]0xFFFFFF 89 points 7 hours ago*
Levono is aware of the issue and fixing it: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
It is on hackernews, where people are being rational and theorizing that this is not microsofts fault. More like best-buy rep doesn't know what he talks about and the SSD doesn't have support drivers in linux kernal.. Or lenova messed up their bios implementation.
Luckily we have the reddit witchhunt in full force, so we can make uninformed rants!
Note: Every single previous similar scenario about linux being locked out has not been microsofts fault, which is why people are sceptical that this is the case this time..
I also have a Signature Edition laptop, it runs linux fine.."" https://www.reddit.com/r/linux...
The Lenovo link has an official post saying:
"Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install
Options
07-27-2016 10:04 AM
Thank you for confirming it is still not possible to install Linux on Yoga 900-13ISK2 systems.
This issue has been escalated to the Development team. I am unable to offer a timeframe for fix at this stage in the investigation. With previous cases, BIOS fixes have been delivered anywhere from several weeks to several months.
I will post again when I have more information on the investigation." https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
"[–]0xFFFFFF 89 points 7 hours ago*
Levono is aware of the issue and fixing it: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
It is on hackernews, where people are being rational and theorizing that this is not microsofts fault. More like best-buy rep doesn't know what he talks about and the SSD doesn't have support drivers in linux kernal.. Or lenova messed up their bios implementation.
Luckily we have the reddit witchhunt in full force, so we can make uninformed rants!
Note: Every single previous similar scenario about linux being locked out has not been microsofts fault, which is why people are sceptical that this is the case this time..
I also have a Signature Edition laptop, it runs linux fine.."
You ignore the fact that the South is well documented as being as aggressive toward the North over the border prior to the invasion, and indeed again it is well documented that it was the South which started many of the skirmishes and exchanges of gun fire that blighted that period.
While the South may have made futile impotent symbolic gestures the North planned and prepared and executed a full scale invasion.
At that point in time, the South were every much the bit as brutal as the North
The political oppression and political indoctrination and violence of the South pales in comparison to the North.
But it would seem that people like you don't like that side of history being brought up
Untrue, I just don't believe in logical fallacy of false equivalency.
Not quite but close. Then the "axis of evil" speech happened and it all went to shit. Maybe it would have gone to shit anyway, but by 2006 they were setting off nukes.
Over a year before Bill leaves office North Korea is flying missiles over Japan and his administration suspects that North Korean is cheating on the nuclear deal.
Slashdot Mirror
"The police told me they'd be back if it happened again," That doesn't sound like standard investigative work and ruling out innocent people to me. It sounds more like a threat.
Actually it does. If some random criminal event you are supposedly unrelated to keeps occurring on your property then obviously the police need to investigate things further. It doesn't mean you are guilty, it means they don't full understand the mechanisms taking place and need to figure it out.
Running an exit node might provide plausibly deniability in court though.
That's why the police searched the laptop. If files were present it wouldn't be from Tor. The IP is just probably cause for a search, Tor exit node or not.
That's fine until you get to the point where the police threatened the couple that they'd "be back" if they ran an exit node again.
Poor summary. Here is a better summary.
The police informed the couple that they'd "be back" if more child porn is uploaded from their IP address.
Could smart criminals just also run a Tor exit node, and just use it to blame anything that they get caught on?
Only if the police were dumb enough to look at a list of Tor exit nodes, find the IP there, and decide not to investigate the owner of that IP.
Raiding your home at 0600 is not fine.
Actually given how easy it is to destroy digital data it is necessary to surprise the person whose computer needs to be looked at.
Poor analogy. Tor exit nodes don't store anything. It's a relay that people use in order to obscure the place they came from.
Here's a better analogy. Imagine if a wanted criminal ran inside an open-door city shop in order to dodge the police, and the police then charged the shop owners as an accessory to evading law enforcement.
Poor analogy. Here is a better analogy.
Imagine if a wanted criminal ran inside an open-door city shop in order to dodge the police, and the police questioned the shop owners to confirm that they were the shop owners and not the criminal.
What does any of that have to do with police abuse against people doing nothing illegal?
Police are responsible for **investigating** crimes. Sometimes this means surprising people so that evidence can not be destroyed. From the summary it seems that the the residents told the police they operate a TOR exit node, the police looked at a laptop and left. The resident is a bit naive thinking that being on a public list of TOR exit nodes should have made the search unnecessary. Being on that list does not indicate that the resident is not the uploader the police are looking for, just that they are unlikely to be that person but it still needs to be **investigated** to rule them out. That what a lot of **investigation** is, ruling innocent people out as suspects.
I don't think Boot Camp has any support for Linux. Personally I just run Linux in a VM rather than try to figure out triple boot. That is when the *nix stuff that I am doing is Linux specific. Often its not so I can just use the Mac's native BSD environment.
However I would expect that the motivation has little to nothing to do with encouraging Windows usage and more to do with not wanting to spend the money and time testing their hardware under Linux.
And yet, they spent money ant time making ACPI return different values for Linux instead of returning the same ones that Windows gets and if Linux fails to work with them then to hell with it.
Yes. Testing ends at verifying Linux can not install rather than test the various Linux distribution for correct functionality on all subsystems (ex wifi). If you take an active step to support the installation of Linux then you have some responsibility to see that Linux runs to some reasonable degree, even if technically unsupported. You will get fewer support calls/emails if it can't install and many more if it doesn't run correctly.
Plus if the cited post is correct about a driver not being ready then Linux support may have been moved from v1.0 of the firmware to v1.1. If would not make business sense to slip the launch date of a Windows laptop because a Linux driver is not ready yet.
Pro vs Consumer hardware. A Pro product having more money for testing and support. Plus the Linux community being more of a Pro thing than a Consumer thing.
Now, please let me load Linux onto any Chromebook. That's what I really want.
That is what I did when I wanted a Linux laptop, repurposed a Chromebook.
Why? Because Windows laptops are well know to have Linux compatibility problems. There is no existing reasonable expectation of Linux compatibility for laptops as there is for desktops. Laptop compatibility is still a Linux wish list item. Buyers still have to do their homework.
As explained in the slashdot story from 3.5 hours ago ...
A reddit poster offered this, in his link Lenovo says the dev team is working on it:
""[–]0xFFFFFF 89 points 7 hours ago*
Levono is aware of the issue and fixing it: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
It is on hackernews, where people are being rational and theorizing that this is not microsofts fault. More like best-buy rep doesn't know what he talks about and the SSD doesn't have support drivers in linux kernal.. Or lenova messed up their bios implementation.
Luckily we have the reddit witchhunt in full force, so we can make uninformed rants!
Note: Every single previous similar scenario about linux being locked out has not been microsofts fault, which is why people are sceptical that this is the case this time..
I also have a Signature Edition laptop, it runs linux fine..""
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux...
The Lenovo link has an official post saying:
"Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install Options
07-27-2016 10:04 AM
Thank you for confirming it is still not possible to install Linux on Yoga 900-13ISK2 systems.
This issue has been escalated to the Development team. I am unable to offer a timeframe for fix at this stage in the investigation. With previous cases, BIOS fixes have been delivered anywhere from several weeks to several months.
I will post again when I have more information on the investigation."
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
I dispute this notion that given no indication of Linux support on packaging, on the website, on the support forums, etc it is a "buyer beware" situation.
I've yet to see any computer list other operating systems on a retail box ... I've definitely never seen logos of Linux or BSD on any machine anywhere, except ones that ship from companies like System76. So no I don't think it's sufficient to blame the customer here.
You misunderstood what I wrote, apologies if I was not clear enough.
By "box" I am referring to the retail packing not the system case. Furthermore I also indicated that not seeing Linux on the packaging would cause me to check the website and forums. If **none of these** mention Linux then the expectation of Linux support on a laptop is bogus, laptops have a very troublesome history with Linux and there is no reasonable history of it just working as there is with desktops.
Look at the specs for your system and/or motherboard, in particular the chipset it is using. Look for anything mentioning "M.2". My Z170 chipset mentions "M.2 x4" and "both SATA & PCIE mode" so I should be ready.
Well, the fact that you installed your own operating system means they're off the hook for support. Support can't be the reason. Maybe it has something to do with wanting to make sure you use their bloatware.
I'm not sure, if they filled out the Linux section of the DSDT that might imply Linux support. At least to a hostile lawyer, they did make an overt act to support Linux after all. Making the user edit that info might make the company lawyers happier. I once had a small project that needed to be under close scrutiny by our corporate attorneys. Fortunately the two I dealt with were nice people and somewhat technical but even under those ideal circumstances it was ... uh ... interesting. As an engineer I had very different ideas about what exposed our company to risk. Once they explained I understood where they were coming from, a bit paranoid but not nonsense.
You can't run Linux on the Pixel or a MacBook?
Not saying it isn't possible. But those are devices that the OS maker did not intend to be able to run Linux or any other OS but their own.
Macs not only support Windows but Apple offers a utility, Boot Camp, to assist in installing Windows on a Mac and configure dual booting macOS or Windows and to install Windows drivers for Apple specific hardware and services.
The biggest problem here is that it wasn't even disclosed to the buyer as being a "signature series". I am against lock down, but lack of disclosure is an even bigger problem. OEMs ought to be disclosing whether or not their hardware has proprietary Windows drivers, however they don't do it. It goes beyond "let the buyer beware," a lot of times the info isn't there.
Did the box list only Windows under supported operating systems? Did the box only have Windows logos on it and no Linux logos? I'd say if there is not an indication of Linux support one should not assume so. After examine a retail box I would check the technical information on the website. If still no indication of Linux support I would move on to a different product. I dispute this notion that given no indication of Linux support on packaging, on the website, on the support forums, etc it is a "buyer beware" situation. I would further dispute an argument that it is traditional for PCs to support Linux, while that may be true for desktops to a very large degree it has not been true in general for laptops. Laptops have a long history of compatibility problems. I realize this is a big wishlist item for Linux users but lets not misrepresent the situation as anything more than that, a still unfulfilled wish.
That old phrase comes to mind:
I'm also wondering if it was a schedule slip issue. Not ready for 1.0 and they didn't want to slip the schedule so this support tasks got moved to the 1.1 schedule.
Manufacturers have a long history of semi-deliberately screwing up linux support on laptops.
Not surprising. However I would expect that the motivation has little to nothing to do with encouraging Windows usage and more to do with not wanting to spend the money and time testing their hardware under Linux. Requiring the user to make a change as you describe is probably designed to get them off the hook for providing any support.
You offer an interesting workaround. Sadly my old school required Dell laptop has died so I can't investigate its compatibility problems. After graduation I tried to repurpose it as a Linux system and it had the typical problems, wifi, etc. My "workaround" was to buy a Chromebook and to install Linux on it. It was a rather cheap Chromebook too and it worked well. I don't need a Linux laptop often, I mostly use a BYO desktop and rarely have I had problems in these last 20 years.
The Lenovo link has an official post saying:
"Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install Options
07-27-2016 10:04 AM
Thank you for confirming it is still not possible to install Linux on Yoga 900-13ISK2 systems.
This issue has been escalated to the Development team. I am unable to offer a timeframe for fix at this stage in the investigation. With previous cases, BIOS fixes have been delivered anywhere from several weeks to several months.
I will post again when I have more information on the investigation."
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
A reddit poster offered this, in his link Lenovo says the dev team is working on it:
""[–]0xFFFFFF 89 points 7 hours ago*
Levono is aware of the issue and fixing it: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
It is on hackernews, where people are being rational and theorizing that this is not microsofts fault. More like best-buy rep doesn't know what he talks about and the SSD doesn't have support drivers in linux kernal.. Or lenova messed up their bios implementation.
Luckily we have the reddit witchhunt in full force, so we can make uninformed rants!
Note: Every single previous similar scenario about linux being locked out has not been microsofts fault, which is why people are sceptical that this is the case this time..
I also have a Signature Edition laptop, it runs linux fine..""
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux...
The Lenovo link has an official post saying:
"Re: Yoga 900-13ISK2 - BIOS update for setting RAID mode for missing hard drive on linux install Options
07-27-2016 10:04 AM
Thank you for confirming it is still not possible to install Linux on Yoga 900-13ISK2 systems.
This issue has been escalated to the Development team. I am unable to offer a timeframe for fix at this stage in the investigation. With previous cases, BIOS fixes have been delivered anywhere from several weeks to several months.
I will post again when I have more information on the investigation."
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
Sorry, url to reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux...
An interesting reddit post:
"[–]0xFFFFFF 89 points 7 hours ago*
Levono is aware of the issue and fixing it: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/L...
It is on hackernews, where people are being rational and theorizing that this is not microsofts fault. More like best-buy rep doesn't know what he talks about and the SSD doesn't have support drivers in linux kernal.. Or lenova messed up their bios implementation.
Luckily we have the reddit witchhunt in full force, so we can make uninformed rants!
Note: Every single previous similar scenario about linux being locked out has not been microsofts fault, which is why people are sceptical that this is the case this time..
I also have a Signature Edition laptop, it runs linux fine.."
You ignore the fact that the South is well documented as being as aggressive toward the North over the border prior to the invasion, and indeed again it is well documented that it was the South which started many of the skirmishes and exchanges of gun fire that blighted that period.
While the South may have made futile impotent symbolic gestures the North planned and prepared and executed a full scale invasion.
At that point in time, the South were every much the bit as brutal as the North
The political oppression and political indoctrination and violence of the South pales in comparison to the North.
But it would seem that people like you don't like that side of history being brought up
Untrue, I just don't believe in logical fallacy of false equivalency.
Not quite but close. Then the "axis of evil" speech happened and it all went to shit. Maybe it would have gone to shit anyway, but by 2006 they were setting off nukes.
Over a year before Bill leaves office North Korea is flying missiles over Japan and his administration suspects that North Korean is cheating on the nuclear deal.