While this may be an interesting new technology, or cool new advances on older technology, I have to wonder why we need this so badly. I mean, really... The Army is always getting fancy new toys like this which cost millions of dollars, yet the Marine Corp still manages to do better with the leftovers they inherited from the Army after Vietnam. Can someone explain why we really need to waste "more than $45 million... between 2000 and 2005." on these new toys?
Re:What about gimp?
on
GTK-- vs. QT
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
I regularly use the GIMP on Windows, and at least for me, it's at least as stable as any of my other Windows programs. Remember one thing: if it crashes running under *nix, people will get mad. Things aren't supposed to crash under *nix. If it crashes under Windows, people will more than likely say "humbug", restart their computer, and go on with things.
How low of a salary would you accept, if it meant you would be spreading Linux to a more receptive age group?
If it's more than $5.65/hr, it'd beat what I'm making now... $5.65 as "Student Network Assistant." Not a bad job at all, but it wouldn't be too hard to lure me elsewhere for a few dollars more. Course, that's right now while I'm in school. In a few years, there's no way in heck I'd work for that little.
This was a regular public school as well, no high paid privite school teachers or special computer support staff. Just the underpaid public school teachers and the students to support everything.
High paid private school teachers? And what would you be smoking? I've gone to both public and private schools, and let me tell you... Just because a private school costs a bit of money out of the parent's pocket doesn't mean they're wealthy. The teachers at my private schools were there primarily because they cared about the students and having the freedom to educate students by their own methods, not to mention little freedoms like being able to talk openly about God and other religious subjects without so much fear of offending some brat with an overpaid underworked lawyer. The computers at the private schools were also about 10 years old. At my public high school, on the other hand, the teachers were paid at least relatively well (still not high-paid by any means, but better than the private school teachers). We also had a bit newer computers (they were only 3-5 years old, instead of 10) and we DID have a "special computer support staff" to keep the network running, etc. The only network the private school ever had while I was there was a sneakernet. My public school district had (if I recall correctly) 1 or 2 T3 lines into the district offices, and 3 or 4 T1 lines to most of the schools from there.
I submit another, kinda clunky, but it really gets to the heart of the hard-drive-overheated-by-fragmented-swapfile Microsoft eXPerience:
4) eXtinguisher a Prerequisite.
That could also work because of the frequent crash-n-burn syndrome Windows exhibits. Case in point... A friend of mine works with a guy who was installing Win2k on a server. He rebooted after the install, and low and behold, the C:\WINNT folder was absolutely GONE without a trace.
Haha... just thought of another one... eXtended and Proprietary
Why did you place Slackware above Debian as being easier?
He probably placed Slackware above Debian for a few reasons. The install actually needs no explanation. It is all very easy to use and understand, and works quite well. Debian was my first Linux installation, and it absolutely confused the heck out of me trying to figure out exactly which disk images I needed to download, etc. Then I used Redhat, and at least got it installed, but then I tried to compile some stuff. That has a tendency to not always work so well on Redhat. (Don't know about Debian, never tried). Then I went to Slackware. It was very much like a breath of fresh air. I could actually download things, decompress them, run `./configure`, `make`, `make install` and it actually did it. Right. The first time. Without hacking the code at all.
Slackware has more rudimentary package-management
How is Slackware's package management more rudimentary? It simply expects you to know what you have installed on your system. It doesn't hold you to any stupid dependencies, it doesn't go downloading a bunch of other crap, it doesn't have some database to get screwed up if you start installing other packages manually without adding them to the database. These parts of the design are one thing that appeals to those who use Slack. It just works. The package manager is not rudimentary, it just follows the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) philosophy, and to good effect.
One thing you forget to mention... unlike many sites mentioned on/., kernel.org is on a 100Mbit connection. In other words, they can serve a whole heck of a lot of people, and still have bandwidth left over. I don't think I've ever seen them useing over 80Mbit or so at any one time, even when 2.4.0 first came out. At the moment (1:38am, PDT), the bandwidth utilization is at 32.84 Mbit/s. In other words, they've still got almost 70Mbit/s not doing anything. While I generally agree that mirrors should be used, in the case of kernel.org it really doesn't make all that much difference.
how do you tell net send what machine to send to? I've been playing with it a bit on my win2k box and can't get any messages to pop up on my screen. I tried `net send 127.0.0.1 "hello"` and got error 2273. ("The message alias could not be found on the network.") I also tried using my netbios name and my NICs IP address, to no avail.
One person who gave a speech on the topic of 802.11b at DefCon (don't remember his name, sorry... look on the DefCon website if you want it) said he got 13 miles. A friend of his got a connection from 20 miles. This was in San Francisco, and I think they were up in the hills around berkeley or somesuch, so the curvature of the earth didn't get in the way. The antenna setup wasn't even all that complex. -
In that case it should comfort you to know that it took I think 1:14 (that's 1 minute 14 seconds) for a group to root an OpenBSD 2.9 box at DefCon this year. I think the next group got in in 1:15. However long it was, I know both groups were in in under 2 minutes. I'm not sure what services it was running though. Point is, if you're running ANY services or whatever that aren't activated as part of the default install, you could very well be as vulnerable as anyone else. -
I know another microkernel out there that seems to get the job done...take a look at your favorite Windows2000 system.
Get the job done, yes. Get the job done in a fast, efficient, friendly, stable manner, absolutely not. I'm not trying to troll here, and I must say I use win2k quite a bit. However, I just had the privilege of installing it tonight on an older system, and remembered exactly why I loathe windows so much. It takes longer to "detect hardware such as your mouse and keyboard" than OpenBSD takes to install. Any time you want to try a new driver on a device such as a NIC, you have to reboot before you know for sure if it'll work or not. How many times, even in win2k, have you been told, "You must restart your system for these changes to take effect." With Linux, I occasionally reboot, but I almost never HAVE to reboot to make something work. For simple things like trying out drivers, I never reboot. The main reasons I ever reboot are for trying out things like init scripts or lilo configs.
The blurb says:...the bizzare (eg: Software Suspend)...
From the FOLK website:
* Software Suspend
Enables the possibility of suspending the machine. It doesn't require APM. You may suspend the machine by pressing Sysrq-d. It creates an image which is saved in your active swap-space. The next time the machine is booted, the kernel detects the saved image and restores the machine to the saved state.
Why is this so bizarre? It sounds basically like the Windows 2000 "Hibernate" option, aka suspend to disk, which can be VERY useful. It's great on laptops, and nice even on desktops if they get shut down often. I personally think this would be a very nice feature, and will probably download it and install it into my kernel as soon as I have a chance.
These were verified by another user on the Slackware forum, so they should be correct. I haven't completed my download of source.iso, so I can't say for that one. Good luck.
Doh!!! Always use the preview button *smacks self*
The md5sums for the ISOs are as follows:
363b762630bc95a1b5d8e330585679f0 install.iso
8ba63550935c9e64e45b6a84ec0b5528 extra.iso
These were verified by another user on the Slackware forum, so they should be correct. I haven't completed my download of source.iso, so I can't say for that one.
Good luck.
Well, probably if everyone wasn't all downloading from ftp1.sourceforge.net at the same time, the mirrors could update more quickly, and we'd all be able to get our slack more quickly. For what it's worth, carroll.cac.psu.edu is qutie a good server, once it's done updating. I believe they have a 155Mb connection, so it's usually quite quick.
It'll be interesting to see if Debian and Slackware (along with other smaller non-RPM distros) go along with this though.
I don't know about Debian, but I've been following discussion on the slackware devel forum for several weeks now, and can say that Patrick Volkerding (The man who makes Slackware happen) doesn't like RPM, for some very good reasons. RPM is included with Slackware for compatibility reasons, but the standard Slackware packages (.tgz, installed with pkgtool or installpkg) are the preferred way of doing things, and really work quite well. They do not have dependency checking, which is one of the many reasons I like them. Dependency checking can be nice, but it seems like it's more often a pain in the butt more than anything else.
Given that Slackware already has a package system that works quite well, and the maintainer and many of the users despise RPMs, I think it's safe to say that they will not become the standard package method for Slackware anytime soon.
Sounds like Linus wants only his name on the system...
Did you happen to follow the first link in the blurb? It goes to a mailing list archive, in which someone points out the Linus's name is printed next to some driver. Linus replies: "It wasn't addded by me, though, and if somebody wants to change the name to "Frodo Rabbit", I wouldn't holler loudly." To me this does NOT sound like an ego-maniac wanting his name and only his name all over the system.
Re:You mean they use real guns with real bullets?!
on
MilSpec Biotech
·
· Score: 1
The problem is that in major conflicts it seems that the outcome is always worse when the US doesn't intervene.
Yes... Think how much worse Vietnam could have been if the US wouldn't have intervened... Oh wait...
Seriously though, I think the US has done it's share of good in shortening conflicts by intervening, but this is by no means always a good idea.
If the original TCP/IP stack were under the GPL there would be no internet
Uhhh, just wondering, how did you come to this conclusion? It really doesn't matter what license the original TCP/IP stack was released under. TCP/IP is an open protocol, and everyone could design a compatible implementation based on that protocol, and we'd still be about where we are today. Even if a company like Microsoft had written the first TCP/IP stack and not given code to anyone, we'd probably still be using it if people thought it useful, because someone would come along and reverse engineer it, like they tend to do with any other useful protocol.
How can everyone agree to make libs compatible, backwards compatible, and standard?
There are various reasons this may not work well, but I was thinking... why not simply add the version number into the name of the library file, and have the program coded to look for that library. This would undoubtedly cause a bit of extra overhead, but then every program would always be able to find the library version it was looking for. different versions of the same library could all be kept within the same directory to make the file structure easy to figure out. From looking at/lib on my slackware-current box, it looks like many libraries already incorporate version numbers into the name, so this is already much better than the dll hell of windows. In windows, I may have 5 different programs looking for 5 different versions of mscvrt.dll, for example, but in Linux I might have several programs using different versions of libutils, but one can use libutil-2.2.3.so, another can use libutil-2.2.0.so, etc.
Note that I just picked library names out of my head, and I have no idea if there are actually any kinds of version conflicts with these libs. If you have flames about some anal little thing, send them to/dev/null.
Now crawl back in your little hole and take your pathetic attempts at starting a conflict with you.
Wow... And you say he's flaming? you both have some good points, so go take a nap or drink some jolt, and come back when you both have your senses about you. I think companies like Motorola and STM have a HUGE amount to gain from this thing, as helping make sure Linux runs on their hardware as well or better than anyone else's could stand to bring them LOTs of money.
Slashdot Mirror
While this may be an interesting new technology, or cool new advances on older technology, I have to wonder why we need this so badly. I mean, really... The Army is always getting fancy new toys like this which cost millions of dollars, yet the Marine Corp still manages to do better with the leftovers they inherited from the Army after Vietnam. Can someone explain why we really need to waste "more than $45 million... between 2000 and 2005." on these new toys?
I regularly use the GIMP on Windows, and at least for me, it's at least as stable as any of my other Windows programs. Remember one thing: if it crashes running under *nix, people will get mad. Things aren't supposed to crash under *nix. If it crashes under Windows, people will more than likely say "humbug", restart their computer, and go on with things.
How low of a salary would you accept, if it meant you would be spreading Linux to a more receptive age group?
If it's more than $5.65/hr, it'd beat what I'm making now... $5.65 as "Student Network Assistant." Not a bad job at all, but it wouldn't be too hard to lure me elsewhere for a few dollars more. Course, that's right now while I'm in school. In a few years, there's no way in heck I'd work for that little.
This was a regular public school as well, no high paid privite school teachers or special computer support staff. Just the underpaid public school teachers and the students to support everything.
High paid private school teachers? And what would you be smoking? I've gone to both public and private schools, and let me tell you... Just because a private school costs a bit of money out of the parent's pocket doesn't mean they're wealthy. The teachers at my private schools were there primarily because they cared about the students and having the freedom to educate students by their own methods, not to mention little freedoms like being able to talk openly about God and other religious subjects without so much fear of offending some brat with an overpaid underworked lawyer. The computers at the private schools were also about 10 years old. At my public high school, on the other hand, the teachers were paid at least relatively well (still not high-paid by any means, but better than the private school teachers). We also had a bit newer computers (they were only 3-5 years old, instead of 10) and we DID have a "special computer support staff" to keep the network running, etc. The only network the private school ever had while I was there was a sneakernet. My public school district had (if I recall correctly) 1 or 2 T3 lines into the district offices, and 3 or 4 T1 lines to most of the schools from there.
I submit another, kinda clunky, but it really gets to the heart of the hard-drive-overheated-by-fragmented-swapfile Microsoft eXPerience:
4) eXtinguisher a Prerequisite.
That could also work because of the frequent crash-n-burn syndrome Windows exhibits. Case in point... A friend of mine works with a guy who was installing Win2k on a server. He rebooted after the install, and low and behold, the C:\WINNT folder was absolutely GONE without a trace.
Haha... just thought of another one... eXtended and Proprietary
And then there's Windows. Maybe with XP...
Speaking of Windows XP, I was wondering the other night: What does "XP" stand for? I could only think of three possibilities:
1) eXtra Pricey
2) eXtinguish Piracy
3) eXterminate Privacy
Why did you place Slackware above Debian as being easier?
He probably placed Slackware above Debian for a few reasons. The install actually needs no explanation. It is all very easy to use and understand, and works quite well. Debian was my first Linux installation, and it absolutely confused the heck out of me trying to figure out exactly which disk images I needed to download, etc. Then I used Redhat, and at least got it installed, but then I tried to compile some stuff. That has a tendency to not always work so well on Redhat. (Don't know about Debian, never tried). Then I went to Slackware. It was very much like a breath of fresh air. I could actually download things, decompress them, run `./configure`, `make`, `make install` and it actually did it. Right. The first time. Without hacking the code at all.
Slackware has more rudimentary package-management
How is Slackware's package management more rudimentary? It simply expects you to know what you have installed on your system. It doesn't hold you to any stupid dependencies, it doesn't go downloading a bunch of other crap, it doesn't have some database to get screwed up if you start installing other packages manually without adding them to the database. These parts of the design are one thing that appeals to those who use Slack. It just works. The package manager is not rudimentary, it just follows the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) philosophy, and to good effect.
One thing you forget to mention... unlike many sites mentioned on /., kernel.org is on a 100Mbit connection. In other words, they can serve a whole heck of a lot of people, and still have bandwidth left over. I don't think I've ever seen them useing over 80Mbit or so at any one time, even when 2.4.0 first came out. At the moment (1:38am, PDT), the bandwidth utilization is at 32.84 Mbit/s. In other words, they've still got almost 70Mbit/s not doing anything. While I generally agree that mirrors should be used, in the case of kernel.org it really doesn't make all that much difference.
how do you tell net send what machine to send to? I've been playing with it a bit on my win2k box and can't get any messages to pop up on my screen. I tried `net send 127.0.0.1 "hello"` and got error 2273. ("The message alias could not be found on the network.") I also tried using my netbios name and my NICs IP address, to no avail.
One person who gave a speech on the topic of 802.11b at DefCon (don't remember his name, sorry... look on the DefCon website if you want it) said he got 13 miles. A friend of his got a connection from 20 miles. This was in San Francisco, and I think they were up in the hills around berkeley or somesuch, so the curvature of the earth didn't get in the way. The antenna setup wasn't even all that complex.
-
I wouldn't settle for any other OS security-wise.
In that case it should comfort you to know that it took I think 1:14 (that's 1 minute 14 seconds) for a group to root an OpenBSD 2.9 box at DefCon this year. I think the next group got in in 1:15. However long it was, I know both groups were in in under 2 minutes. I'm not sure what services it was running though. Point is, if you're running ANY services or whatever that aren't activated as part of the default install, you could very well be as vulnerable as anyone else.
-
I know another microkernel out there that seems to get the job done...take a look at your favorite Windows2000 system.
Get the job done, yes. Get the job done in a fast, efficient, friendly, stable manner, absolutely not. I'm not trying to troll here, and I must say I use win2k quite a bit. However, I just had the privilege of installing it tonight on an older system, and remembered exactly why I loathe windows so much. It takes longer to "detect hardware such as your mouse and keyboard" than OpenBSD takes to install. Any time you want to try a new driver on a device such as a NIC, you have to reboot before you know for sure if it'll work or not. How many times, even in win2k, have you been told, "You must restart your system for these changes to take effect." With Linux, I occasionally reboot, but I almost never HAVE to reboot to make something work. For simple things like trying out drivers, I never reboot. The main reasons I ever reboot are for trying out things like init scripts or lilo configs.
The blurb says: ...the bizzare (eg: Software Suspend)...
From the FOLK website:
* Software Suspend
Enables the possibility of suspending the machine. It doesn't require APM. You may suspend the machine by pressing Sysrq-d. It creates an image which is saved in your active swap-space. The next time the machine is booted, the kernel detects the saved image and restores the machine to the saved state.
Why is this so bizarre? It sounds basically like the Windows 2000 "Hibernate" option, aka suspend to disk, which can be VERY useful. It's great on laptops, and nice even on desktops if they get shut down often. I personally think this would be a very nice feature, and will probably download it and install it into my kernel as soon as I have a chance.
Here's the last md5sum:
a8845cb56957f7277703e3bdb18729e3 source.iso
This one hasn't been confirmed by anyone, but it's from a copy of source.iso rsync'ed off ftp1.sourceforge.net, so it should be accurate.
The md5sums for the ISOs are as follows:
363b762630bc95a1b5d8e330585679f0 install.iso
8ba63550935c9e64e45b6a84ec0b5528 extra.iso
These were verified by another user on the Slackware forum, so they should be correct. I haven't completed my download of source.iso, so I can't say for that one. Good luck.
Doh!!! Always use the preview button *smacks self*
The md5sums for the ISOs are as follows: 363b762630bc95a1b5d8e330585679f0 install.iso 8ba63550935c9e64e45b6a84ec0b5528 extra.iso These were verified by another user on the Slackware forum, so they should be correct. I haven't completed my download of source.iso, so I can't say for that one. Good luck.
Well, probably if everyone wasn't all downloading from ftp1.sourceforge.net at the same time, the mirrors could update more quickly, and we'd all be able to get our slack more quickly. For what it's worth, carroll.cac.psu.edu is qutie a good server, once it's done updating. I believe they have a 155Mb connection, so it's usually quite quick.
It'll be interesting to see if Debian and Slackware (along with other smaller non-RPM distros) go along with this though.
I don't know about Debian, but I've been following discussion on the slackware devel forum for several weeks now, and can say that Patrick Volkerding (The man who makes Slackware happen) doesn't like RPM, for some very good reasons. RPM is included with Slackware for compatibility reasons, but the standard Slackware packages (.tgz, installed with pkgtool or installpkg) are the preferred way of doing things, and really work quite well. They do not have dependency checking, which is one of the many reasons I like them. Dependency checking can be nice, but it seems like it's more often a pain in the butt more than anything else.
Given that Slackware already has a package system that works quite well, and the maintainer and many of the users despise RPMs, I think it's safe to say that they will not become the standard package method for Slackware anytime soon.
Sounds like Linus wants only his name on the system...
Did you happen to follow the first link in the blurb? It goes to a mailing list archive, in which someone points out the Linus's name is printed next to some driver. Linus replies: "It wasn't addded by me, though, and if somebody wants to change the name to "Frodo Rabbit", I wouldn't holler loudly." To me this does NOT sound like an ego-maniac wanting his name and only his name all over the system.
The problem is that in major conflicts it seems that the outcome is always worse when the US doesn't intervene.
Yes... Think how much worse Vietnam could have been if the US wouldn't have intervened... Oh wait...
Seriously though, I think the US has done it's share of good in shortening conflicts by intervening, but this is by no means always a good idea.
no one wants to reinvent the wheel. It's an incredible waste of time.
So you're saying Samba and similar projects are a waste of time?
If the original TCP/IP stack were under the GPL there would be no internet
Uhhh, just wondering, how did you come to this conclusion? It really doesn't matter what license the original TCP/IP stack was released under. TCP/IP is an open protocol, and everyone could design a compatible implementation based on that protocol, and we'd still be about where we are today. Even if a company like Microsoft had written the first TCP/IP stack and not given code to anyone, we'd probably still be using it if people thought it useful, because someone would come along and reverse engineer it, like they tend to do with any other useful protocol.
DNA is less of a "source code" and more of an executable.
Great. So if I send them my DNA they're gonna execute me? No thanks.
How can everyone agree to make libs compatible, backwards compatible, and standard?
/lib on my slackware-current box, it looks like many libraries already incorporate version numbers into the name, so this is already much better than the dll hell of windows. In windows, I may have 5 different programs looking for 5 different versions of mscvrt.dll, for example, but in Linux I might have several programs using different versions of libutils, but one can use libutil-2.2.3.so, another can use libutil-2.2.0.so, etc.
/dev/null.
There are various reasons this may not work well, but I was thinking... why not simply add the version number into the name of the library file, and have the program coded to look for that library. This would undoubtedly cause a bit of extra overhead, but then every program would always be able to find the library version it was looking for. different versions of the same library could all be kept within the same directory to make the file structure easy to figure out. From looking at
Note that I just picked library names out of my head, and I have no idea if there are actually any kinds of version conflicts with these libs. If you have flames about some anal little thing, send them to
Now crawl back in your little hole and take your pathetic attempts at starting a conflict with you.
Wow... And you say he's flaming? you both have some good points, so go take a nap or drink some jolt, and come back when you both have your senses about you. I think companies like Motorola and STM have a HUGE amount to gain from this thing, as helping make sure Linux runs on their hardware as well or better than anyone else's could stand to bring them LOTs of money.