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Can University Students GPL Their Submitted Works?
Mdog asks: "I'm an instructor for The University of Illinois's CS 125 (intro to CS for CS Majors) class. I've been asking around the department regarding the legitimacy of students GPLing their submitted programs. Somebody pointed me to this document which talks about U of I policies regarding intelectual property. Having read the link, I'm still not quite sure what a students rights are in this situation, specifically part that reads that there exists a license which you implicilty agree to...:
'The minimum terms of such license shall grant the University the right to use the original work in its internally administered programs of teaching, research, and public service on a perpetual, royalty-free, non-exclusive basis.' Can I take this to mean: 'GPL compatible'? I'd be curious to know about anybody's experiences at other schools where this question has come up." I've seen several submissions where colleges take total posession of reports and projects created by students in their classes. Such a move would at least give the students some power in how their work is used.
At public universities, this work is partially publicly funded so it should end up in the public domain, or at worst, with a BSD or other unobtrusive (Apache or X) license on it.
The GPL extends the right to anyone to use the original work for any purpose whatsoever on a perpetual, royalty-free, non-exlusive basis.
Someone you trust is one of us.
Most Universities do, in fact, have _published_ policies about all works belonging to the university or larger governing body.
You can, however, probably derive every project on GNU's hello.c, which would require the resulting work (as a derived work) be GPLed.
Not a lawyer, so YMMV.
Sounds to me like he wants an answer for students that *want* to GPL their stuff. Not a bad tactic, actually. It ensures that they will have use of it later.
Could you create two names for your project, one that is school-specific, and another name for GNU purposes? Then the project takes on two lifes, one where it maintained by the school if they decided to use it for whatever, and your own personal one for open sourcing it on your own?
-jc
In my experience, the university owns your stuff. By writing software for their courses as a student (solicited by them!), you are handing the rights over to them. Think of it as the university being your employer - you wouldn't expect your employer to allow you to GPL software they asked you to write? Yes, the distinction between public and private domain is important here, and if it seriously *mattered* (does it *really* matter?) then you could probably argue a good case for public funding resulting what it produces being publicly available. Then again, the quality of the work a uni produces can dictate the government funding it receives, and if other unis can just pilfer software that a postgrad has written ...
Lots of food for thought, anyway.
Luke.
Ash OS durbatulk, ash OS gimbatul, ash OS thrakatulk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul! Uzg-MS-ishi amal fauthut burgulli.
From what you just said;
The minimum terms of such license shall grant the University the right to use the original work in its internally administered programs of teaching, research, and public service on a perpetual, royalty-free, non-exclusive basis.
Yeah, according to that, the GPL would be acceptable... It gives the University the right to use the original work for anything, perpetually, without royalties. The non-exclusive bits means that the student could license the software to someone else, too, on completely different terms. Doesn't really apply to your question, since it's up to the student whether the University has an exclusive license or not. It's just saying that the University doesn't *require* an exclusive license.
Dave
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
What, me worry?
There is a GPL'd Hello World...
With that out of the way, I don't see how the university could object. The GPL gives the entire world a perpetual, royalty-free and non-exclusive license to use the code. Unless the university has some other clause which restricts what the student may allow the rest of the world to do, the GPL would appear to be entirely compatible with the U's terms.
--
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
This would be like asking the company you work for you can GPL a function that you wrote.
I don't think this means anything to CSC1XX courses, though. Universities usually have strict policies stating that they own everything you do. Otherwise how would they make money? (other than charging outrageous tuition)
legitimacy of students GPLing their submitted programs
The teacher is asking if it's legal for the students to GPL their own submitted works, because by submitting the works as a class project the students grant certain rights to the university. And even if it were the situation of which you speak, the very act of handing in the assignment is a granting of permission, under most schools' policies.
Next time, read the article twice instead of gunning for the first post.
if you're paying them?
--
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
Ask them. They're really the only people's whose opinions count. They're also very quick to listen whenever they hear "computer program" - the dollar signs from Mosaic/Netscape are still in their eyes.
Be prepared to be laughed at, since really, what intro-to-CS project is anyone going to give a shit about?
I wish I were joking. He GPLed everything. It was all I could do to keep from switching to FreeBSD just to piss him off on licensing issues.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Actually, there are a way that you could find a nice solution for that problem:
The GPL still allow you to license the work to someone else. License to the university however they want it, license to others with the GPL.
I'm sure you should be able put a notice on it that it's released through the GPL and that the University is granted additional rights to the work.
I'm not going into the technicalities of the GPL if it would allow it without that notice, I'm sure people with more knowledge than me will be posting that. But if you want to play it safe, just release it like that.
At the University of Texas, we CS grad students are allowed by The University to publish our research code under the GPL. (Indeed, my research group is actively encouraged to do so by our advisor).
There is also an undergraduate software engineering class that requires you to do a team project, and the result of that is always put under the GPL. (One of the biggest challenges when I was the TA for that class was getting the students to understand that the couldn't just harvest the Web for code, images, etc., and publish the result under the GPL, or any other license for that matter.)
YUMV.
I would guess the situation is similar at most American public universities, but mine is a little more progressive than most in many other ways, so YMMV.
However, what in an intro to programming class could even be nontrivial enough to be covered by a license or copyright? There's a definite lower bound on the size of copyrightable software, and it's larger than most of the programs that most students write for intro classes. (Whether the code produced by intro programming students is worth disseminating is another matter which I'll leave to the trolls and cynics.)
Please note that this does not necessarily apply to graduate students. And it may well not apply to your own university.
Some people have pointed out that students never agreed that all their work should become property of their university. This is, of course, blatently false if (and only if) this is written down in the university code of conduct. I would imagine most universities state this.
--
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
It may be a tough pill to swallow, but on who's machine you develop makes alot of difference -- If youre building code on servers provided by the University, then i'd say the University has a fair right to assert at least partial ownership over that material. After all, you were working on their systems--You don't own it, you don't lease it, and without them you'de have squat anyway.
The real world works the same way. My dad was an Engineer for Rockwell for 30 some-odd years...Whatever he designed became property of the company, obviously. I work at IBM here in Tucson--The code I write belongs to IBM. In both cases, the reason is the same -- The giant CAD terminal my dad used was provided by Rockwell International Graphics Systems Division. My workstation(s) are provided by IBM Corporation. We were merely being allowed to use them for the benefit of our respective companies.
Perhaps it would benefit you to think of the situation like that in the future--Whenever you sit down infront of a University computer system, just remind yourself of the fact that whatever you build is not necessarrily yours--Its property of the University, and there's really nothing wrong with that. If you want to release something under the GPL, don't use a box you don't own to develop it in the first place.
Bowie J. Poag
4a: Ownership. Unless subject to any of the exceptions specified below or in Section 4(c), creators retain all rights to traditional academic copyrightable works as defined in Section 2(b) above.
4c: Student Works. Unless subject to the provisions of paragraph (a) or provided otherwise by written agreement, copyrightable works prepared by students as part of the requirements for a university degree program are deemed to be the property of the student but are subject to the following provisions:
4c 1&2 regard thesis work, which the University does take some credit in, seeing that it's the degree, basically.
Thanks for the document, I was about to start a similar search, I'm starting at UIUC in the fall.
Link it with a library, or include some code that is itself under the GPL.
The university may then 'own' it, but they can't distribute it without being bound by the GPL.
And i doubt any university would go so far as to ban the use of GPLed code, unless you study in Redmond.
I gots ta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
I know of a few projects here which have wound up in commercial venus. *Usually* a commercial org is sponsoring any major project, but many proejcts aren't and I've seen a few GPL ones. I believe that the student is free to publish their work in GPL, but that the university has just as much a claim to that work so they could release it under different licensing because it does in part belong to them.
Often students are given an algorithm to implement. The professor wrote the algorithm, and they are just writing the code. In the cases of more advanced CS classes, they might be writing programs that are indeed revolutionary. I have considered licensing some of the software that I wrote for my more advanced classes. Some of this software either has no commercial or free equivalent, or in some cases, the equivalent is quite expensive. Most CS students will write something truly useful in college, though they will probably not replace their current systems with it (how many run the OS that they wrote their senior year?) some do, and may want to release this code to the public. The main important consideration being who owns it. IE, I probably can't release anything that I wrote in conjunction with a university research program. Universities license quite a bit of intellectual property, all of which was created by SOMEBODY. In some cases, releasing your student assignments could be equivalent to some dude from ID selling Quake IV cds, because he wrote the code.
OK, before you start laughing so hard that milk comes out of your nose, hear me out. Of course the GPL is about software. But it limits the actions of people (and people-like organizations, such as corporations, universities, etc.) This is important to understand, because it reveals the flaw in the GPL-as-virus analogy which is commonly used to explain the GPL.
Suppose I, as the sole author of a piece of software, distribute it under the GPL. This does mean that anyone who licenses it under the terms of the GPL, must also make any derivative works available under the GPL. However, it is important to note what it does not mean: it does not mean that if I make a derivative work, that I have to release that under the GPL. It also does not mean that I cannot license the same software to someone else under a different, non-GPL compatible license. (If you took the GPL-as-virus analogy too far, you might well believe that these latter two were not allowed. But that is not the case. Just because some copies of a program are licensed under the GPL, does not mean that all copies are magically infected.)
With the UI policy, you license any software you submit to UI under a non-GPL license. (It seems to me that the implied license described in the linked document is not GPL-compatible; it might be well within the university's academic mission to provide students with the compiled version of the program, but not the source code, something forbidden under the GPL.) This does not prevent a student from making the software available to other people under the GPL, but he has already licensed it to the university under a non-GPL license when he submitted the program.
IANAL.
Never take moderation advice from sigs, including this one.
Gee, what a valuable lesson. I wonder if it's been patented yet...
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
You said it right in the posting.
The university requires you (the copyright holder) to grant them (the university) a nonexclusive royalty free right to use the work however they want. Period.
It does not grant them 'ownership' of the data, it does not take your copyright away, it simply says they can do what they feel like with it once you give it to them, and you can't expect any compensation for it.
You are perfectly free to also release the code under the GPL (and the BSD license, and a proprietary one, and any other license you feel like, because the code is YOURS)
I bet the university would have loved to bust out it's IP policies on Yahoo, but somehow I don't think it'd have any effect.
Got Rhinos?
As a student, I don't see any reason there should be any restrictions on how you deal with the copyright. The creation is yours and you can do what you want with it. I'm pretty sure the policy you've pointed to is intended for faculty and staff.
Even as a grad student, I had to sign a nonexclusive license to the Queen (in Canada, as represented by the National Librarian). The copyright remains in my name and if I want to OPL/GPL it, I can.
Staff and faculty have a more complicated arrangement because their research is technically a "work product" (further complicated by the fact that it's usually funded by the University, a granting agency or two and some private donors). If you ain't getting paid, I wouldn't worry about it.
Greg
You'd like to think that, but that's not the way it works. Publically funded research (grants and such through the National Science Foundation) does not end up being in the public domain all the time. In some cases it does, but not in all. It's put into the public domain because of what the university decides to do with it, not because they *have* to. Mosaic is a good example. Publically funded, released with "copyrighted, but freely distributable for non-commercial use" on it. The university of illinois made a lot of money licensing it (not as much as they could have, but a lot).
An interesting excerpt:
of course there are a bunch of other clauses there that can trip you up.. So best thing to do is ask your university legal department to clarify their policy before you turn in that homework...
Unless something is created as a "Work for hire", you own it. IANAL, but the way this is layed out is "Its yours unless (A) you transfer ownership to another entity or (B) it was made as a work for hire". I'm pretty sure that by handing in a project one is not transfering ownership, simply releasing a free copy, no?
- John Byrne
johnSAYSNOSPAM@hyperbolix.net
www.hyperbolix.net
Second, they want to contribute code to the open-source community.
I'd say go for it! <grin> And be glad that you have other open source geeks in your class. =)
I guess you can check with your department regarding their official stand on this, as people on Slashdot can offer advice, opinions and thoughts, but can't authoritatively decide anything in your situation. (I think.)
It seems that the GPL is allowed, but again - check with the university, and hope your uni isn't draconian enough to reject such a nice thing. =)
Posted by polar_bear:
This might open a can of worms at some institutions - one that sorely needs opening! It's ridiculous that a college/university can charge a student tuition and take possession of their work.
However, not all schools are created equal - many schools either do not have policies or they have more "liberal" policies that allow the student to retain rights over their work, albeit policies that require a student to allow the school to use the work.
I didn't major in CS, I majored in English/journalism - and at my school I retained my own rights to works that I created...though I had one professor that required classes to sign a waiver allowing him to use works created by his students.
If a school's policy were challenged, I wonder if it would hold up - especially if it's a policy that's not given to the student up-front when they apply to the school.
The fact that they explicitly state that the license you grant them to use your work is non-exclusive means that you're free to also license others to use your work under other licenses (such as the GPL). If they had claimed an exclusive license to use your work, then you would not have been able to do so (as their license would be the only one allowed), but that doesn't appear to be the case.
So the short answer is yes, you can GPL your work.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I note that one of my colleagues, whose grad-school software is more widely used, has kept the copyright to himself and licensed his code unter LGPL. (The project is GLUI, a portable UI toolkit for OpenGL programs. Google keyword: GLUI. Hi Paul.)
I graduate from University of Michigan last December and my professor in my software engineering class told the class any work we done belongs to us. Of course the university can argue that they provide the resources for you to get the stuff you designed/invented and the policy can change from year to year (depends on how the university).
you write a piece of code that infringes on the DMCA and then turn it in for a class assignment. When you get sued, you tell them "Hey, Fuck Off. My school owns the copyright!"
:)
yeah, so you'll get kicked out of school. it'd still be funny
Somewhat offtopic is the many operating systems courses (like at UW) that have projects that involve modification of Linux kernel code- and no consideration is given to the GPL at all. Perhaps making all the students work freely available would make it difficult to assign the same homework in later quarters, but that's no excuse...
Having taken the class, I'm surprised that there's this much worry about the issue. I released my MP's for it under the GPL and nobody cared. Due to the size of most of the popular (or required, like this one) classes at uiuc, programming assignments have very strict rules for what needs to be done. The assignments are generally more fill-in-the-blank than anything else. Students have to complete a method to do the specified behavior, or maybe write something simple from scratch. But nothing is complex enough to bring out some programming genius worthy of a patent or controversy over the licensing.
Any projects I've seen that would require consideration of this sort have been funded by a corporation for a senior project, or just done in the student's spare time.
This is all fun to talk about, but I don't think it really matters.
chris
--
sigdashes for mdog
That being said, at my college, papers and theses were yours, but many people left theses and papers behind for use as sources for other papers/theses (you had to quote them like you would any other source, you were on your honor not to plagiarize, they were kept in a library and you couldn't check them out, plagiarism would get you booted out.)
As far as I know, Harvey Mudd (across the street) had a pretty hands off policy toward student work, it was yours to with what you wanted, I don't think they laid claim to anybody's schoolwork unless they wanted to contribute it. I know for sure that if you took a CS class at Mudd or Pomona, your home college's policies where in effect regarding IP for any class, this applied to pretty much all class work, regardless of the department.
For an educational institution to try to lay claim to a student's work in any field would be in pretty bad form, although it's not unheard of for profs to swipe undergrad work and try to push it off as their own. I've never known of any instances where I went to school, but I'm sure it happens. There wasn't a big push for profs to publish either, but this might be a different situation at a larger University where it's "publish or perish"
The system has failed you, don't fail yourself. --Billy Bragg
Their basic policy was that you retain all the rights to your work (including the choice of how to license it) if you did it as an "assignment." This even applied if you used generally-available university resources, like computer labs, to do the work. ASU, however, retained the rights to work that you did as a paid employee of the university. Since I was working as a programmer/sysadmin/whatever for a lab at ASU, I fell into the second category, and therefore could not immediately release my work.
However, not all was lost. ASU (and perhaps your university does as well) and a nice and long form you could fill out to officially declare your intellectual property to the head honcho in charge of IP. If on the form you could convince the IP-honcho that the work had no "significant market value", you could get permission to release it. I decided that this was not worth the trouble, but perhaps you would be willing to go through such a process.
I applaud any attempts to restore the public release of university research, and GPL of CS coursework seems like a good step in that direction. The quoted guidelines appear to be quite GPL compatible. Asking the university lawyers seems like a bad idea. I have never found lawyers to give useful, clear answers to intellectual rights questions. Instead they tend to want to cover the university's buttocks with lots of paper and create unneccesary restrictions.
On reading this I became curious what my own institution's policies were, so I looked them up. FWIW:
First of all, my school maintains separate policies for copyright and patents. The copyright policy states that copyright of student works resides with the student. The patent policy makes no specific references to students, but says that anybody who uses university facilities or receives money from the uni (including gifts and grants) has to surrender patent rights to the uni, though they get a chunk of any royalties.
Since different aspects of software can fall under copyright or patent law, sounds like this must be mighty confusing for the CS folks. My best guess about what this means is that if you invent something, the university owns the invention, but you own whatever you say about the invention (and in the case of software, you own the specific code you wrote to implement the invention).
Now, when it comes to a major thesis, then it becomes interesting to start discussing who should own copyrights to works, but for a basic CS course it should have no interest to anyone. As long as the students deliver their assignments in a form that is technically and legally readable, it doesn't matter to anyone.
Why bother?
the first time I submitted a compsci assignment with the GPL headers and such attached, I got a funny look from the instructor. She wasn't very aware of what it was and asked me a few basic questions about it. I tried explaining it but mostly got questions like, "But what's this license thing?" or "Did you make it?" or "What does this do for you?" or "So who are these GPL people??". Once she finally got it she did express concern over whether or not this was allowed, since I was submitting it to her, and then she had to submit it to people abroad for grading (crazy program). Anyway, I gave her the GPL overview, and she was easily convinced that it was harmless because I was infact the copyright holder.
:)
Anyway that was sort of offtopic but I would say, just go ahead and GPL it and wait for someone to say something about it. Then we'll all have a new geeks rights violation submission to flame about
Seriously I don't think any ugrad-level work should be owned by the university. I don't think the general grad stuff should be either unless they are working on a big project of which the univeristy is sponsoring in some way. Simply using a basic lab machine doesn't qualify in my book. My lab and engineering fees are supposed to cover those resources. Now if I was on some bigass SGI doing DNA simulations or something of the like of which the university had to purchase something for or they had to give me control of a large lab for an extended period of time, then yes I do think that they should have part of my work. Otherwise people would go to school forever to use up the unv's resources and then sell their work to the top bidder.
--
I've worked for a number of different colleges and universities in Australia as an IT Lecturer and the same policy has always been in force - THE INSTITUTION OWNS ALL ASSIGNMENTS. The student has no rights to publish, distribute or even reuse assignments or derivitive works. There are no requirements for students to receive royalties and on enrollment a student waives all rights not specifically mentioned on the enrollment over their assignments. its a hard life but ....
The MyTh - I am a figment of the Imagination - [Im Probably even not here]
A common theme I am seeing in the posts about this is that if the students produce the work on university computers then the univerisity has some right to claim ownership. I don't see how people can be okay with this. Can Kinko's claim ownership of any images I manipulate on thier machines because they own the hardware? The university isn't an employer, and therefore does not have the right, in my mind, to claim ownership on any work done as part of the requirements for a class. Research work is different because you are performing work on behalf of the university. It is expected for the university to claim this work because in a way they are your employer.
The last argument against this has to do with other classes and not just computer classes. What if a music major compses a symphony...does the university have rights to it because the student used school materials to produce it? Something to think about.
My Jr High sued me for damages because I sold a program I wrote in the computer lab to M$.....
I remember when I was researching the UIUC for possible entry as an undergrad, I talked to a few people, including CS professors and etc. One of the things they told me is that engineering in UIUC is partially funded by NCSA and Beckman institute. Basically if you do reasearch projects, including writing software, then if it is done in their labs, it is their property. If i recall correctly, that is what happened to Mosaic (that's is why it is NCSA Mosaic). I think a team of grads developed it in the NCSA lab, thus giving all rights to NCSA to market.
But I could be wrong....either way that was not the reason I chose not to go there.
Remember, when you are downloading MP3's, you are downloading communism!!!
badness 10000
On the other hand, I have had a lot of assignments where the instructor sets up the basic layout, and does a lot of work to aid you in creating your code, lots of time even creating other code/programs to help the students. In this case maybe the instructor should have rights to a program that he designed and orchestrated but didn't actually code.
Also, just because its an intro course doesn't mean that a more experienced programmer isn't creating advanced code.
As an alum of U of IL @ Urbana-Champaign, I can comment on how this whole thing is typically implemented, at least before any lawers are involved. Esentially, anyting the school wants out of your work, it keeps. I was there for architecture, so any cool drawing you drew or model you built for a class that the professor wanted to keep at the end of the class (usually because you kicked ass and the prof wants to show to next year's class) they kept. At us$20 per hour, the School of Architecture has millions of dollars worth of student work in the archives. Now, the big difference between student architecure projects and software is that, really, the school isn't going to make any real money off the student work, whereas with software, they could make millions. If I remember, my Hopkins Residence Hall buddy Marc Andressen re-wrote all his Mosaic code when he split for Netscape. (I still remember sophmore year asking my friend Dave, "What's that guy Marc up to?" Dave said, "he's working for NCSA with some program connecting pictures and text over the internet." I replyed, "They're paying him to do that?!?" Little did I know....) While one question is: what does the 'shrink wrap agreement' that we agree to when attending the school say, a more important question is: have there been court cases to test this. I suspect that there are precedents where medical and engineering students have come up with valuable ideas. Have they been able to give these ideas away?
If I understand this, the University wants a free license to use student work anyway they see fit. At the same time, we have professors at UCLA bringing copyright infringement suits against students who publish their own class notes?
At My school (Cal Poly SLO) you have to sign a reliece saying that any IP associated with your Senior Project or Masters Thesis belongs to the University. My friend designed a bridge for his senior project that was actually going to be built. That is until the city found out that they would have to pay Cal Poly for the plans. Now instead of having a great deal of grunt work done for little cost, The city is starting from scratch on an inferior design. the same thing used to happen in CSC until the department changed to having students hand in a paper describing there code and methods with the (suitably licenced) code "Provided for the readers convience."
JFMILLER
Strive to make your client happy, not necessarly give them what they ask for
I had a marketing course back some years ago and remember an incident where the instructor asked the class to come up with a marketing presentation for some aircraft company and then follow through for mock up purposes. As it turns out this instructor had also taken a project for an aircraft company. It was soon revealed by another student, graduate student with professional ties and contacts, that the instructor was using the presentations and student marketing efforts for his personal financial gain. Whether this is legal or ethical I dont know, but it sounds like students these days are more up to date than instructors and this little clause allows instructors to take several students work, make it into something for the benefit of themselves or the institution.
Putting code under the GPL implies that others would want to do something with your code.
Most of the code I've seen written by students -- including my own, when I was an undergrad -- wasn't of sufficient quality to be worth "protecting" with the GPL. I would be embarassed to defend some of the work I did as a student, heck, I'd be ashamed to admit that some of the first- and second-year code I wrote was actually mine in the first place.
Putting my first-year card-playing program (learning how to use aggregate types, wheeee) under the GPL would be like a 3-year-old claiming intellectual property rights on a finger painting.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
I have had to deal with UIUC IP legal people
though not regarding software. Go ask them
yourself. Second floor of Henry Administration
Building: U of I legal counsel office.
Why aren't you talking to a lawyer?
Man, whatever you see here, don't take a word of it as reliable until you take all of your information to a lawyer. In fact, you'll probably find that the campus offers free legal service. Bundle up your papers, trundle down to the lawyer's office and forget that you ever asked what you asked here.
-h-
I ran up against this very issue when I submitted my final year project.. It was written in Perl, and it extended the functionality of an existing Perl module, albeit in a different way.. I was invited to submit a patch, join the development of the module, whatever...
Then I read about this obscure clause in the university project guidelines which said, "all the work submitted for the project belongs to the university"... back up a minute here.. WHAT ?
I'd like to add here that this university that I went to encourages projects with "commercial" applications.. its a private university, btw.. Has anyone started using student projects as a basis for products.. well, not yet.. but it always loomed as a possibility, so I went and talked to the Dean..
Upshot: as long as the university name was prominently displayed, I could claim authorship (is that the right word?) for my work.. It, however, could NOT be GPLed (to their credit, the Dean and Head of Department knew exactly what GPL was).. nothing to stop me releasing it commercially or otherwise, but I couldn't make a profit, and no one else could use it without the university having to be contacted...
In the end, it was just too much hassle, so I just chucked it up after I graduated.. so, the bottom line: GPL usually isn't an option, but most universities are willing to negotiate on ownership and intellectual property rights.. so talk it over with the Department head or Dean and work something out..!
I have heard stories of professors forcing their students to release coursework under GPL (possibly apocryphal, but it has the ring of truth). In particular, in order to receive credit, the students were required to use a header file provided by the professor, which was covered by GPL. As a derivative work, all the resulting coursework inherited GPL.
So the question is again: who owns the work, and who decides what can be done with it? It's difficult to imagine that forcing someone to use GPL could have nefarious purposes, but imagine that some bright student could develop a novel algorithm, but deliberately holds it back because it might have commercial application? This could be particularly problematic in graduate EE/CS programs. The focal point of the licencing decision process should rest with the student.
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
The Universit of Michigan is very clear that any code created by a student is his/her property and NOT the school's. This includes code written for classes. Also, there is help on campus for those who wish to go commerical, opensourece, etc with their code.
I love it.
-andrew
Some decades ago, a few young hackers were putting together an implementation of the BASIC programming language, using a prominent university's computers. (Harvard? I think.) Naming it Microsoft BASIC, they tried to sell it, but the university claimed that the usage of their computing resources forbad it. One of these programmers, Bill Gates, complained about this position, noting that world-famous researchers had used Harvard's library for tremendous personal gain, while he was denied the same opportunity.
Bill Gates and his company turned out pretty well, though.
-Brendan
As sole author you have the right to release your program under as many non-exclusive licenses as you choose. The University's copy goes to them under their license while the copy you put up on Source Forge is under the GPL. Any conflicts between the licenses are irrelevant. GPL compatibility only matters when combining works of different authors.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Use a BSD style license. Just submitted code and a rather lengthy report, all nicely with a BSD style license so that the uni can use it for what purposes they see fit and I remain happy. :)
However, since it is non-exclusive, it does not prevent the student from ALSO releasing the code under the GPL, or any other license that doesn't restrict the University's license (e.g., by an exclusivity clause).
The "and public service" clause suggests that the University could itself publicly release the code under any license it sees fit.
Oh well, wound up dropping out of college just in time to get a job making lots of money.
What does this have to do with anything? Nothing really, except to bitch about Scheme.
Carl
Vote Libertarian
No. This is not a correct argument against the GPL-ing of student programs. In general, copying is prohibited by the school's rules and regulations. It is an infraction against the university to plagarize in class, not (always) against the original author. In the case of the GPL, the original author would have no claim in the case of plagarism (asusming the copier followed all the terms required therein), but the school would. So it would be okay.
// mlc, user 16290
--
I'd suggest consulting a lawyer, or contacting your closest ACLU office.
Another suggestion, do ALL your coding on your own machine. If you don't have one, get one. Decent PC's can be had cheaply these days. That would make it even harder for them to claim ownership.
If they are claiming that your code is their property, and aren't paying you at least the state/federal minimum wage for it, they are violating numerous labor laws, IANAL.
I ABHOR this attitude from academia... These are the very same universities that allow their faculty to use school equipment, and even paid TIME to write papers, books, etc, which they then sell and profit from.
I'd think that a university would have a HARD time justifying that practice while telling the judge that they MUST own all code you write. Such clauses may even be illegal in your state, as it's very similar to some draconian employer NDA/non-compete/etc agreements.
And becayse you had no choice but to "agree" to it, it might even be null and void on that basis (duress).
Such clauses haven't been standing up in many places in employer/employee disputes, the fact that you are doing UNPAID (in fact, you PAY to be there) "work for hire" would, IANAL, IMO, strengthen your case.
And if you write something REALLY great, don't turn it in as work... Sit on it until you are out of school (summer break, etc).
Imagine if Bill Gates was attending college today, instead of when he did (and dropped out to form Microsoft)... His university might have claimed ownership of his BASIC program... And given today's draconian and anti-individial IP laws (which people like Gates helped create), they might even have won.
One reason why I despise people like Gates... He now tries to deny the opportunity to others to take advantage of what HE used to get to where he is.
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
I know at my school, i have never seen nor signed any agreement that gives them my code, but it is generally understood that i do not hold the copyright if i used any of there hardware to create/test it. I had to rewrite something that i wanted to release under the GPL from scratch just so i could release it to the public. I am trying to convince them to just GPL all of the students (assignment) source under a website so that students can still use it, but the non-free os people that warez all of there software don't like open source, go figure.
for my capstone coures at MSU (Michigan State) just this spring we were required to GPL our final project. The project was for a group outside of the university and my prof wanted to make damn sure that they couldn reuse our code for a propritary project. My geuss is it depends on the university .. check and see what the contracts/legal dept. has to say about it.
"Shut up brain or ill stab you with a Q-tip" Homer Simpson
There is no sweeping rule for all Universities, but as for SFU, I can assure you that all student works are under sole ownership of the student, and may be placed under any license that they so choose or create.
-Medgur
So, if you write a nice hangman program, GPL it. If you develop a working model for the GUT (grand unification theory), GPL that, too. You never know how it will help or inspire someone else.
I repeat, the point of the GPL is keep code free, even the GNU version of hello.c (is there one, really).
To those that don't like it: write your own stinking code and quitcha' bitching.
Robert
If you want to GPL a college assignment, just do it. Release your tarball or whatever to several web sites, your home page, etc., and include a copy of the GPL with the sucker. If your college objects - too late, the source is already out on the internet, and you can always plead ignorance. Even if that doesn't work, I doubt a college will go to great lengths to hassle you over a simple assignment - or even a complex one. They have better things to do, such as spending your money.
Of course, you can always just release your software on the Internet anonymously, and just say "who, me?" if anyone asks if you wrote the program they just grabbed off an FTP site.
None of this was intended as a troll, but I just wanted to point out that there's no reason to sweat the finer meanings of rules when they can be avoided altogether with such ease.
I'm the stranger...posting to
I GPL'd my sDES project last year, with the assistance of a teacher. sDES stands for "simplified DES" -- it's DES with only an 8-bit key. Not terribly secure, but a good exercise (plus, it worked equally well with binaries as it did with data files, something that apparently was hard to do). I think it's still on Freshmeat somewhere.
If a college says "You cannot GPL your work", it follows that since using any GPL-derived code would require you to use the GPL in your own work, you cannot use GPL-derived code. If there is no GPL allowed, then any action which results in your work being GPL'ed would probably be forbidden. Besides, "deriving" from hello.c is not going to impress your prof.
I'm the stranger...posting to
...then I might find it useful to refer to your program to see how it's done. If my teacher permits, I might even want to integrate your program's aggregate-type handeling functions into my prog. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Come to think of it, could you email me that card-player? I really don't know aggregate types.
I'm the stranger...posting to
The value of software depreciates very quickly, and by universities releasing under abusable licenses like this, they are only doing the public an insult by doing companies' R&D for them so the businesses can close up the software and devalue it. This is a very large debate, and there should be a faq written on this. Perhaps I'll contact GNU.
My high school encourages some pretty bad habits. (Using material from the internet and crediting it to dead-tree books, code "sharing" in quotes, etc.
Also, is the GPL really a good habit to get into? I agree it can be useful, but if I were a prof I'd prefer that students look at the program they're doing and use the liscence that best suits their purpose. The GPL is fine for simpler progs, but I'd want students to get more familiar with commercial liscensing when they start doing commercial-type software, such as databases. The students are there to pick up job skills - picking the right license for the job like any other tool is a useful skill. GPLing everything in sight teaches you nothing.
I'm the stranger...posting to
WHAT©©© You apperantly have many mis-conseptions© I'm not going to comment about the administration because to a small extent, you may be right©©© but as far as the profesors go, I think that for the most part, you are dead wrong©
I know for a fact that many of the professors at universities could make MUCH more mony outside the university then teaching© I know of one professor that was offered a job with a starting salary in excess of 100K in the mid-west© Instead he took a job with the university where I know he dosn't make that much© Many of them do it for the love of teaching, or knoledge ¥as some are more geared at research© But doing it for the money, or eleate social status, I highly doubt©
The old addage of those that can't do teach is way off, it's the opposite of the truth© Many times those that can do the best teach©©©
...as long as it's the GPL.
I'm the stranger...posting to
Where I work (think rival to MIT), we are required to sign a gem of a document from which the following is an extract ...
All rights to computer software, including computer programs, computer databases, and associated documentation("computer software"), whether copyrightable or patentable, produced by employees or students in the line of Institute duty or with the use of Institute facilities, shall be owned by or assigned to the Institute, regardless of the source of funds used to produce the computer software. Computer software produced outside the line of Institute duty and on the author's own time, and without the use of Institute facilities, are not the property of the Institute.
The legal brigade (numerous and well funded themselves) have determined like many employers that they own your time and the resources you create upon, and therefore the product... regardless of what kind of license you *think* you want to stick on it. Again the short answer: read those policies lest you get very burned.
use Signature::Witty;
I've taken the class that the professor is teaching. Trust me, nothing that comes out of that class is WORTH GPL'ing. It's all cookie cutter, add a few lines of code into an already mostly prewritten program, type of assignment.
On the other hand, this IS a valid question for other, higher up classes.
Kurt Triebe
I took the class you're talking about a few years ago, and was really upset at myself for taking a class whose first assignment wasn't much more difficult than "Hello, World." Because the first assignment was so ridiculously easy, I made sure to GPL my entire submission just for the irony. When the instructor sent me back my program with his comments, he simply said "The GPL??" and called me a Linux Geek. As for more serious projects, there seems to be a large precedent of University-funded works being GPL'd. The University of Illinois (as I'm sure many other schools do) has a rather clear policy about who owns the copyright for anything made on campus, using campus equipment, for a class, etc--the university, of course. The main purpose of this, however, is to avoid people that use campus resources to make money for themselves. So in short, the University won't care until someone tries to use the code in a commercial product.
You're exactly right with your arguments, but I think it still might be missing the point. Is a student really "licensing" his/her work to the professor?
To take it out of the educational context.... say I go to my boss tomorrow and say, "hey, you know that secret super neato program you've had me working on? Well, it's done, and I've decided to license it to you on some pretty good terms, but I'm going to GPL it for some of my friends at competitor XYZ Company to use and improve on." Obviously, that's a silly proposition.
To get back to the educational environment, if I'm doing work for a professor, am I in a position to dictate the terms of my work? From what I understand, most universities reserve rights to patent student-produced work. Would their copyrighting of software fall under this same general idea? If the university has copyrighted the work (note, they would copyright the code itself, not some "special" version that I've released only to them) do I still have the ability to distribute it on my own terms? IANAL either, but I'd guess that I wouldn't be able to redistribute a copyrighted work, even if I were the original owner.
Ownership was another issue. In the end they ceded to students the rights to their work. However, grad students are in a complicated situation, where their work becomes jointly owned with the univ. and their prof. And profs are pretty much obligated to share ownership of their IP with the uni.
Our brand new IP policy can be found online here.
So long, and thanks for all the Phish
Compatible does not mean the same as.
Compatible in this context means does the GPL satisfy the University's minimum license terms (As opposed to the usual context of 'GPL compatible' which is the other way around and something along the lines of can something that was released under this license be GPL'ed)
I can't see any reason why the GPL isn't compatible in this context - can the University use an original GPL'ed work in its internally administered programs of teaching, research, and public service on a perpetual, royalty-free, non-exclusive basis? Yes.
Releasing the code to the University, then releasing it seperately under the GPL is nice, but you might want the copy the university uses to be distributable beyond the university and under the GPL.
Suppose that the university offered a class on reverse engineering. Now, suppose that as part of this course, your next-to-final project involved writing code that couldn't be easily reverse engineered, and that the final project involved reverse engineering the binaries of your fellow students. If a student submitted their works under the GPL, the professor could incur legal liability for not also handing out the source, thus defeating the point of the entire exercise.
That example had a lot of perhapses and supposes, but consider something simpler: A student writes a simple product tracking database that suits the university's hardware auditing needs perfectly. The university deploys it, changes and enhances it, and then loses the source code through some sort of screwup. Failed disk, bad backups, etc. (Yes, it does happen.) Now, the university is distributing binaries of GPL'd code without making the source available. Legally, they have to yank software that's still useful. This seems to fall afoul of the agreement with the university.
--
Forward, retransmit, or republish anything I say here. Just don't misquote me.
...it'd still be in scheme...or assembler!
Slashdot 's editors are dickheads
First of all, I am a graduate from UIUC's CS program. The department is staunchly against student collaboration, and I think that's really the point here. Most instructors I had would give a zero for the first instance of cheating, and failure for the course on the second instance. Practically every MP (UIUC-speak for "programming assignment") was an individual assignment, except for about one or two small group assignments in my entire college career. Most instructors enforce the no collaboration quite strongly, and they have fairly sophisticated methods to detect collaboration.
The thing is, this goes straight in the face of the GPL, which is all about collaboration, and sharing. The two cultures are entirely incompatible. Sharing does not really make sense in basic undergrad CS education; your goal is really to weed out non-hackers, and make sure those who do stay are competent enough to do the work on their own.
Finally, little undergrad coursework is at all interesting to the outside world. When I took CS125 the only interesting MP was for a traffic simulation program, and the most inetersting MP's of my college career were data compression tools and file system implemtation. Of course, none of the stuff compares to existing software. I don't see how GPL'ing any of that stuff would benefit anybody.
Possibly the only really useful thing you could do is GPL the reference solutions after the asignment deadline. This has the potential to help off-campus students who are interested in learning the material without taking the course. But I certainly don't see how GPL'ing freshman's CS125 assignments will in any way make the world a better place.
When you work for an employeer, they pay you to write code (or whatever). When you do it, they own it, as a "work for hire."
A student, on the other hand, pays the university. The student is the employer and not the employee. Thus the student can clearly GPL anything they want to, since they own it.
And in the same sense that undergrads aren't employees, grad students aren't actually slaves (though the distinction gets blury sometimes).
-- MarkusQ
(One caviet though: the university might get snitty and decline to accept homework if it had been GPLed.)
Not true. The GPL is just one license that the UT system has blessed as being in keeping with the interests of the University.
I don't speak for UT System, of course.
- jon
- jon
Ganymede, a GPL'ed metadirectory for UNIX
Generally the principles under which students contribute work falls into the
... I presume the code is attached as an appendix
1) copyright to thesis belongs to student (you write it, you own it)
2) any restrictions (e.g. on publication) are time0limited (e.g. Pharmaceutical companies usually don't hold up publication more than 6 months, 18months is very extreme)
3) any examiner may be required to provide acknowledgement of confidentiality
The bottom line is that a supervisor, if they are smart, sets out ahead of time a written agreement stating exactly what is expected as participation of a project. If you have moral qualms about fueling the military industrial complex, that's the time to bow out gracefully and ask to be reassigned.
OTOH, universities can ask for the right to an outcome, for example rights to use that material for teaching purposes. The nasty situation is when a tutor has leeway in slection of assignments and gains a personal financial benefit (e.g. external party consulting) but universities usually have groundrules on this (e.g. no more than 20% of time, or waiver on consulting outcomes). Obviously some universities are more careful than others and there have been some stories about early career researchers being basically fleeced of their efforts. Students, because they tend to be doing bulk/mass assignments are usually working a known problem in which case there is no real intellectual advances and it would be very hard to assert IP rights except as a performance (rearrange widgets using this script).
As always, reading the rules before signing on the dotted line as there's always the small print to stumble over.
LL
I wrote a few programs during my college career, and I put in my comments a statement stating that whomever possesses the code can do whatever they want to do with it. Since the code was mostly basic data structures, people will want something to look at or use anyways.
The way I view it, you have plenty of options:
- Ignore The Rules - Unless you've done something dramatic to catch the attention of head haunchos, nobody is going to notice/care. If, however, you have something really valuable, you might think twice before starting your own corporation to market it... the official policies may not always be fair or moral, but the university has badder, meaner lawyers than you do.
- Incorporate the GPL - In my senior project, I used connection-pooling software from the guys at bitmechanic.com. This stunt can theoretically tie the hands of a university that wishes to capitalize on a student's project. Could you still get in trouble? Maybe. But at least the university would have to rewrite parts of your code to make it legal for other licenses.
- Rewrite - If you've done something commercially viable, rewrite it from scratch. You'll create a better product with a longer lifespan and a clear path for the introduction of new features.
- Cooperate - If you're not the entreprenurial type, but you created some valuable code and you want to make money off of it, try working with the university. They can take care of those pesky funding/marketing/accounting/legal details. Your piece of the pie will be small (see section 5.14.7.6 of GT's policy), but you'll have time to do the stuff you love and loads of prestige/job offers too.
As an aside, these policies do have a positive aspect: they protect (1) your teammates' work-investment and (2) the university's resource-investment in the tools you use. However, they could be considered immoral since they provide no explicit control of the software/product to the primary contributors (you and your teammates).--
If you see this tagline often, then we're both losers.
-1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
I am an entering Freshman to UIUC for 2001 and my choice of UIUC over Georgia Tech was its appearance of being less commercialized. Plus Zych (a prof) looks very deserving of my faith. By less commercialized, I mean UIUC did not come off as buying into technology's market hype, but instead came off as purely focused on innovating technology.
When I visited Georgia Tech I saw job postings that bled Microsoft and heard all about their hailed graduate that made millions with a startup security company for MS products...the recogniition seemed to be on him making the millions and not on the unbelievable fact that he achieved to create a product for securing a Microsoft OS. I didn't get the feeling there would be real support for education and support for the GPL specifically.
Code that I write for College is meant solely for my own learning purposes; not to fulfill a project goal that will actually be applied by the University. Hence, I believe I should be able to do with it as I wish. I'm not "submitting" my program for their acquisition, I'm simply loaning it and asking for its review...and paying quite a great deal for that service to be performed, in fact.
I'm quite interested in the outcome of Mike's inquiry. I surely hope I am not dissapointed by my University of choice. And...if UIUC responds with a negative on the GPL, which I doubt it will...but if it does, then I'm going to be a lot more skeptical about continuing my enrollment here.
UIUC's reply will hopefully affect which University some of the class of 2002 decides to apply to. I hope their reply is positive and I hope this attracts more people that know what Computer Science really is all about.
The issue is very simple, and I'm not sure why people aren't seeing the simple answer. The GPL would prevent the University from doing certain things with the code, such as using it in a project which is closed-source in such a way and circumstances as to violate the GPL.
/. is not the place to ask about it. Just ask whoever in the University is in charge of administering such things. And if no one knows, or no one can figure out who's in charge of such things, just attach the GPL to it and be done.
However, there is absolutely nothing which prevents the code from being licensed to the University without the restrictions imposed by the GPL, and also to the rest of the world under the GPL. After all, the University's requirements state:
> such license shall grant the University the right to use the original work in its internally
> administered programs of teaching, research, and public service on a perpetual, royalty-free,
> non-exclusive basis.
The key word here is non-exclusive. Just let the University use the code for whatever as long as they stick to that paragraph and don't use it in a way which violates it, and also release it under the GPL to everyone else. The author of a piece of code can license it out to as many people on a non-exclusive basis as he wants, under as many different licenses as he wants.
Of course, reading that paragraph I don't see that it conflicts with the GPL in any way since it only requires that the University be allowed to use the code any way it wishes "in its *internally* administered programs," and the GPL is compatible with that. But just in case the University wants to get nitpicky, I wouldn't push it. After all, as long as the code is GPLed for everybody else, and as long as the University doesn't violate its own clause by using the code publicly in a closed-source manner, I don't see a problem, unless you want to get really zealous about it.
Of course, if you do insist on putting it under GPL for the University's use as well,
Chasing Amy
(We all chase Amy...)
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws"-Tacitus
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I discussed this topic with some length with a lawyer in Canada. No idea if it applies elsewhere but the thought process probably does 1) Just because some university document say "The students give up all human rights" does not make it so. University policy is more or less irrelevant other than the context of what sort of contracts you may have entered and how it fits into local law. Universities often put stuff in their policies that go way beyond what they actually have domain to control. 2) It is very unlikely that local law will see hundreds of pages of policy you never read when you agreed to go to the university as legally binding on issues as important as copyright. 3) If you in any ways used university equipment or computers to do the work, it may very well be seen as a joint creation with the university having some ownership in it. Once they have some tiny ownership, you need joint agreement to do much with it. 4) If the university was paying for your research in the way of a grant or internship, they probably have partial ownership in much the same way an employer might own software you write. Universities are doing their best to generate money from licensing technology - you can count on the fact that your university has some industrial liaison office or technology licensing. To make this work they need to make sure they own everything of any use so their goals are 1) own all IP that professors produce 2) own all IP that grad student produce 3) if they think they can sell own all IP that undergrads produce. Undergrads owning the code are a slipper slope to having the grad students own IP which they are very worried about. They very well could be willing to take you to court over a seemingly silly thing because it sets the stage for more complex things. My personal advice, ask a tenured faculty member if you can GPL the work. If they say yes, ask them to send you that in an email - then go do it. PS - Obviously legal advice from someone who know nothing about your situation, received over the internet, from someone who is not a lawyer - is truly not worth the 2 bits.
Small liberal arts school... I'm a rising sophomore, and it seems sometimes like there must have been some instances of academic dishonesty before I arrived, because ability to do any sort of labwork with others is strictly controlled and limited... much more so than with any other department I've seen... GPLing stuff is a no-no, until you get to the upper level courses... then you have more freedom (it's not a research institution, so I think they don't care as much about ownership of your ideas)...
I'm sure you could do the same with your own work. I considered doing the same with the work I did in a group project for a University paper recently.
Nevrar
Also interesting is the work policies for some Universities. It's easy to understand that anything developed for a company is company policy, yet university policy is bit unique. Take Michigan Technological University for example, where a patentable ideas / products are considered "shared."
The University splits the profits with the student/employee up to a determined sum (say $100K for example). Then, the University reaps all benefits from that point until another sales marker is hit (maybe $500K). The rest belongs to the student.
Sometimes it makes sense to go the University way to release products, as the institution has capital, fame, as well as connections with the sales world. Other times when earth-shattering inventions are created, (as in the case of BASIC
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
Netscape, as all UIUC CS students know, was created by Jim Barksdale with the NCSA under UIUC. When Barksdale left U of I, they wouldn't let him take any of the code with him, so he formed Netscape and recoded the thing pretty much from memory. UIUC lost on a lot of profit from that (at least before Microsoft swallowed Netscape). UIUC felt that it should have asked for a cut of the profits to go back in the University, but they got screwed over. And, because of that, any software that gets developed is under a lot more strict guidelines than it used to be. Blame Barksdale, blame UIUC, blame whoever, but that's a lot of the matter. UIUC Legal Dept and Jason Zych himself (all hail the mighty Zych!) should know a lot more. Speaking of which... all this info is from Zych's Computer Ethics lecture from CS 225 - gotta give credit where it's due! ;-)
The world will be a much richer place with hundreds of thousands of implementations to choose from of these useful applications: recursive Towers-of-Hanoi, quicksort tests, infix calculator parsers, Tic-Tac-Toe AI games and rudimentery Java-based web servers.
Homework that used to be just thrown away will be wasted no more. No longer will the Linux world be lacking for applications.
If the work is solely yours, you can submit multiple licenses.
A lot of people (and specially anti-GPL zealots) often forget that.
So you can GPL it, give the appopriate license to the uni (and you implicitely seem to that),
write your cousin a commercial license, and if somebody from the BSDs bothers you about the GPL, you can sign him a BSD license etc, etc.
Getting back to the subject, it's quite simple - if the uni allows the student to retain the copyright, then they can licence it under GPL. If not, then not. I don't see why it gets complicated.
The policy says works shall be "owned by the creators but licensed to the University." The important distinction is that it does not say that the creators shall license (actually perform the task of licensing) it to the University. Instead, it simply asserts the license's existence and minimum terms.
Since the University require a non-exclusive license, you can give them your code under whatever license you want, and also license it under the GPL.
The University can do whatever it wants with the code you handed them, and you can use your code under the GPL, or any other license that you want.
It's no different than the dual licensing of projects.
--
Two witches watch two watches.
--
Two witches watched two watches.
Which witch watched which watch?
Could you GPL your work before submitting it? As I understand it, once it is GPL'd it cannot be revoked. What are they going to do, refuse to accept your work because it is GPL'd?
----------------------------- Currently serving a 13 year sentence at juvenile "education" centre.
The GPL is not a virus. It does not infect source code. If I hand in, as an assignment, some source code that I own, together with a GPL'ed header, none of my rights to my source code have been taken away. If I hand in, as an assignment, a binary compiled from GPL'ed source and source that I own, I am required, by the GPL, to make the source available, but that is implied in this context, right? But the professor cannot redistribute the binary or my source code unless I give him permission to do so--the GPL on his header file does not take away any of my rights. In this particular case, I have no doubt given the university a non-exclusive licence to my code, and it is this fact, not the GPL on the professor's header, that gives the professor the right to redistribute my source within the university community.
I have written a truly remarkable program which this sig is too small to contain.
then it's the property of the Microsoft Corporation.
Oh, give them the benefit of the doubt! As in, create a *LOT* of doubt with your monopoly on complex, crappy products, along with fear & uncertainty, and then collect all the benefits, as in $30 bln worth of uncertainty.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
One of our best jokes on him is a project that we did analysis on for one of his classes - he has had 3 semesters worth of this final CS class working on the project, and it still doesn't work. He gave us extra credit back in our sophomore year if we could actually finish the project (29 percentage points!!). We did it in a week, and it worked perfectly. A year and a half later, he still doesn't have a working project =)
Personal vendetta aside, the work that we do is not funded by the public in any way. We have a few workstations of course, but we do all the work - no money received. So why shouldn't we be able to license it the way we want to?
We plan on GPLing the code regardless of what the university says - it's our work. We've never signed anything that says our work belongs to the university. I have had one big question about this though.
Once I GPL something, can it ever be "un-GPL'ed"? If we license it, can the university ever take that away from us? I'd be curious....
I'm just happy Africans, Indians and Chinese can benefit from US public money.
I've been posting on the net since 1994 and I still haven't come up with a good sig!
DISCLAIMER: THE FOLLOWING WRITING REPRESENTS MY PERSONAL ANALYSIS OF THIS QUESTION. THIS ANALYSIS IS NOT MEANT TO BE, AND SHOULD NOT BE USED AS, LEGAL ADVICE. BY PUBLISHING THIS ANALYSIS, I DO NOT INTEND TO, AND DO NOT, CREATE A LAWYER-CLIENT RELATIONSHIP WITH ANYONE READING THIS ANALYSIS. THIS ANALYSIS SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON FOR ANY PURPOSE OTHER THAN THE READER'S OWN EDIFICATION. EVERYTHING WRITTEN HERE IS MY PERSONAL OPINION AND DOES NOT REPRESENT THE OPINION OF MY EMPLOYER. SLASHDOT'S POLICY ON ATTORNEY INTERVIEWS IS EXPRESSLY INCORPORATED BY REFERENCE
The university's policy permits students to keep their broad copyright rights in their works, but requires students to provide the university with specific, limited licenses of use in certain situations. The first situation is original research and investigation (including software) produced by graduate students preparing their thesis. See Section 4.(c)(1)). My off-the-cuff interpretation of this section is that grad students keep the copyright in these original works, but the university gets to keep the work (remember copyright means one owns the rights of production, reproduction, and distribution of a work of original authorship). In other words, the university gets to keep research records, but arguably cannot do anything with it without the approval of the student who created it.
The second situation also applies to grad students. Grad students, in exchange for the award of their degree (as if tuition wasn't enough, geez), grant the university a right to retain, use, and distribute a limited number of copies of the thesis. This limited license also grants the university the right to require publication of the thesis, but only for archival use (i.e., sticking it on shelf in the library basement). Again, this license is limited. If a university decided to publish a student's thesis as book and sell it in every supermarket, that would clearly be a violation of the license. What might not be a violation is publication and distribution for a conference of only 50 people. (However, if the university printed and distributed 50 copies a year for several years, the student could probably sue for violation of the license.) Again, the student retains the copyright right in the work.
Although Section 4.(c) is entitled Student Works, the definition of "Traditional Academic Copyrightable Works" (Section 2.(b)) includes works that students might create. Therefore, Section 3.(b) might also apply to student works. Under Section 3.(b)(1), students retain all the rights to works that they create with usually and customarily provided university resources. Section 2.(d) defines "usually and customarily provided university resources." (The definition indicates that Section 3 probably only applies to works created by faculty, but, as mentioned above, Section 3 arguably applies to student works, too.) Section 3(b)(2) provides that works created with resources above and beyond those usually and customarily provided must be licensed to the university for internal use only. Again, I doubt that students would need to worry much about this provision, because most students (even grad students) are not given resources above and beyond those customarily provided. But if that were to happen, the student still retains all rights in the work. The license granted pursuant to Section 3.(b)(2) is extremely limited and only grants the university the right use the work, not to control its distribution or reproduction (except as those relate to its use). Overall, the student gets to keep the bulk of the copyright rights in student-created works.
Looking to the question of how this university policy interacts with the GPL, the issue becomes if a student publishes a work under the GPL, which license controls the University's rights: the GPL or the University policy? The University policy controls the University's behavior. This intellectual property policy is a contract that the student enters into with the university upon matriculation. The contract controls the relationship between the university and the student. However, it does not control the student's relationship with the outside world. Therefore, a piece of software published under the GPL is controlled by the GPL in its relationship with the world besides the university. There does not appear to be anything in the University's policies that would conflict with the GPL (although, I must admit here that I am not familiar with all the specific terms of the GPL, I only have a general idea of what it provides). The licenses granted to the university do not permit the university to control the distribution or reproduction of the work beyond the walls of the campus. Every license granted in the university policy is a license for royalty-free use. Use is a limited right, and it does not give the university the power to prevent others from using open-source code. These licenses are designed to prevent students from telling the university that it cannot use their works. (If you are distributing your software under the GPL, you couldn't cut off the university anyway).
The only area of possible conflict between the GPL and the university policy is in regard to original records (software) created in the process of thesis investigation. The university policy provides that the university owns these records. I do not know what "the original records of an investigation for a graduate thesis" might be, but my best guess is that they are the data that a student might accumulate in researching the thesis. I assume that if a student wrote software to analyze this data, this software might also be considered part of the original records. Therefore, the university might own the copyright for any software of this type. This would prevent that software from being distributed under the GPL because the university, not the student, would be the one to make the decision regarding licensing the work (because the university owns the copyright).
However, I say that the university might own the copyright because, as noted above, it is arguable that the university merely holds the property right to the physical copies of the records, but the student owns the copyright. This distinction is similar to a person owning a compact disk, but the artist owning the copyright to the music on the disk. The person can do anything with the physical disk (e.g., sell it, eat it, trade it), but the artist can control what the person does with the music on the disk (e.g., prevent the person from copying it for another person). Thus, the student might retain the right to control the production, reproduction, publication, and distribution of the original records, but the university gets to keep a copy of those records.
In summary, a student who creates software as part of the requirements for a degree program keeps all copyright rights, without granting any license to the university. (Section 4.(c)). A student in this situation can publish the software under the GPL, and the GPL will control the student's relationship with the University and the rest of the world. A student who creates a work subject to Section 4.(c)(2) can publish the software under the GPL, but the University policy controls the student's relationship with the university, while the GPL controls the student's relationship with the rest of the world. The University policy is not inconsistent with the GPL (and in fact, the GPL would control the University's behavior in areas not covered by the policy). Students who create works subject to Section 4.(c)(1) might lose all copyright right to those works. Arguably, though, the student retains the full copyright, university merely owns copies of these works.
So I think this would be like that. Just like using some of Linus' code in an operating systems course would be plagiarism, unless of course you happened to be a crazy Finn with a thing for penguins. :)
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
I know @ my university, it is possible. There was issued raised against this a while ago. The old Univ. policy was that anything submitted for assigment/project/course material was considered intelilectual property of the univ.
This all changed last year as our university became the first university (supposedly) in North America to house the first "incubation" facility for UNDERGRAD students to start-up their own companies while still finishing their studies!
It's kinda neat... Maybe this should be another Ask /. ... "Are University 'Incubation sites' a Good Idea?"
IANAL, but...
Go read through the Copyright Act at the Cornell Legal Information Institute and you'll find that under the current (post-Berne-treqaty) copyright law, a work is automatically copyright by its author as soon as he/she saves it to disk. Moreover, the author for the purpose of copyright law is not a third party (i.e., the work is not a "work for hire") unless either it is made in the normal course of employment, or else there is an explicit written grant of title for the specific work in question.
Students are not ipso facto employees (lots of case law on that, but I don't have it at my fingertips).
A general college policy does not fit under the "specific written grant" provision, since it does not name the particular work in question.
OTOH, it is not unreasonable for a university to require the license for internal use of the students' works as a condition for granting a degree (fits the quid-pro-quo consideration required for a valid contract).
As for
I think that in these cases, it is entirely in order for the students in question to follow the precedents of the Software Publishing Association and the Scientologists. They should get an ex parte court order to go in with Federal marshals and sieze everything in sight to examine it for evidence of the copyright violations that have taken place. And then sue the socks off the bastards, both personally and corporately."My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
I attend a state university in Maryland. I dont know what the University standards are for GPL, just that they seem to not care what you do with your code so long as you submit and dont steal it. However, recently, in a Java project, a group of us used some GPL code (such as a string tokenizer better than the built in on) and some various sorts in Lisp, and due to the code being GPLed, we had identical code in those places. The prof. went back and reviewed our code, and gave everyone who had used the GPLed code a zero on those assignments, accusing us of cheating with it. He had previously said that we could use such sources, but I guess he meant that only the first person to find it could use it and anyone else was SOL.
I'm really interested in this topic now, however. I can retake that course easily enough, so that past incident was a pain. Now I'm taking a course about software develpoment which is the first time I'll actually be producing code that could be useful outside a classroom environment, and I would like to know what will become of it. Should I declare it to be GPLed by me before even submitting? Suggestions anyone?
Thanks
http://thechubbyferret.net - Ferret pictures and informative links.
I am a student at Eastern Michigan University. When I took a C++ class last year, we were told in no uncertian terms, "share your work, or post your work in any way, and you will fail." Not that it stopped me from putting my projects on a web server (didn't have a printer), so he knew what I thought of the policy, but didn't fail me. its your code, give it what ever license you think works the best, GPL is kinda cool...
One word: Linux
http://jones.ling.indiana.edu/~prrodrig
I am a student at the University of Illinois and I just finished a two-semester sequence on "Software Engineering" taught by (maybe this will ring some bells) Ralph Johnson, co-author of "Design Patterns".
We created a java based Music Sequencer for our project. One of the earlier assignment for the CS329 semester was to establish bug tracking and a revision control system. Johnson himself suggested the use of SourceForge, which I'm sure you all know requires a project to have some open source license. I assure you that probably everyone in the class that used SourceForge chose GPL.
Does this go against the policy of the University (we're encouraged to capitalize that)? I'm not sure. We were practically given consent by our prof and we even told him specifically that it was GPL'd. I'm still working on the project as are other group members. We even won a "software engineering award" from the University for the project. Unless I run into problems in the future, I'm gonna assume GPL is okay.
EOT
I believe Drexel has one of the more extreme licensing "agreements". Basically by signing up to go to the school, you have agreed that "any work created using University resources" is owned by the University (sometimes, special arrangements can be made with the university, but they usually collect royalties...) This little clause doesn't seem too bad until you consider that if your computer is hooked up to the network, you are essentially using university resources... so if you develop a net application or even something that makes trivial use of the net, or if you collaboratively develop an app with other people while living on campus, the university technically can claim rights to your work. I have no doubt that the money grubbers here would try do it too.
Humorless sig goes here.
Based on what I am reading from the copy of the policy, essentially what the university wants is the ability to use or republish the student's work without having to get permission or pay royalties, i.e. creating a printed volume of disserations, university press republication, copying off of microfilm, etc.
Given what is being specified here, using the GPL for a software program or an open-content license would seem to be in the same spirit as what they supposedly are trying to do here.
If the intent is honestly what is printed in the referenced web page then that would be compatible with the GPL etc. (Whether there are ulterior motives beyond what is written in the policy is a question I'm not going to ask.)
The lessons of history teach us - if they teach us anything - that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us.
It's not because they're GPL that they're not owned by you. What you meant to say, maybe, was more like this:
Patches that you receive (whether the software was distributed under GPL, BSD license, public domain, etc) are owned by the author of the patch, unless he/she transfers that copyright to you or places the patch in the public domain.
It's possible (and some would say advisable, for various non-evil reasons) for you to say "I will accept patches to my GPLish software only if you agree to transfer copyright of the patch or put it in the public domain."
"The Crystal Wind is the Storm, and the Storm is Data, and the Data is Life"
Can a PUBLIC university make it ILLEGAL for a student to share works that he or she created?
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
Hey, Northeastern didn't claim Napster when Shawn Fanning coded it there; he even got help from professors.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
Ask a lawyer if you need real legal advice.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
SECTION 2. DEFINITIONS
(d) University Resources Usually and Customarily Provided. When determining ownership and license rights in copyrightable works, "university resources usually and customarily provided" includes such support as office space, library facilities, ordinary access to computers and networks, or salary. In general, it does not include use of students or employees as support staff to develop the work, or substantial use of specialized or unique facilities and equipment, or other special subventions provided by the University unless approved as an exception.
SECTION 4. COPYRIGHTS
(2) Works created as a specific requirement of employment or as an assigned university duty that may be specified, for example, in a written job description or an employment agreement. Such specification may define the full scope or content of the employees university employment duties comprehensively or may be limited to terms applicable to a single copyrightable work. Absent such prior written specification, ownership will vest with the University in those cases where the University provides the motivation for the preparation of the work, the topic or content of which is determined by the creators employment duties and/or when the work is prepared at the university's expense.
Here at the University of Northern Iowa we have a similar document, and this issue also came up with me recently when developing the low-level software which would be used to control the devices in a computer-controlled train set. Some of the devices required too complex a driver to be really considered within the scope of the class (the course was on Real-Time Systems; we were largely interested in the concurrency aspect.)
As I was more proficient in working with the low-level driver code, I wrote that, and released it under the GPL to the other students and the professor, so it could be used again in future semesters.
However, the terms I included above (which are in my own university's policy) would have completely invalidated my release of it under the GPL, under the conditions that:
There was also the issue that, as I was providing work which could be retained by the university, I could be considered an employee, despite the fact that I am not employed by, nor was I paid for my work by the university. And all because I was writing code that the other students in the class couldn't/wouldn't write. This is why they can claim expense simply for the time I put into it: others could not use the hardware without the code I was developing, and therefore I was "inhibiting the academic process" by only taking time to develop software to help the other students!
Fortunately, the issue of legal ownership did not end up becoming a key concern, as the application of my drivers were considered too specialized to be of any applicable use in any other context. However, the point is still there--the university could indeed lay claim to all effort I put into the project, and could resell the entire project, complete with my code but without my written consent, all because of the policies laid out in the document.
What a crock! Freedom (in any sense) is the absence of restriction. If you truly care about freedom (in any sense) then you do your utmost to eliminate restrictions. If you say you need restrictions in your licensing, then you don't understand what freedom is.
An libertarian says no restrictions are necessary for freedom. A conservative says that the criminalization of narcotics is necessary for freedom. A liberal says that wage and price controls are necessary for freedom. A totalitarian says that a strict crackdown on dissent is necessary for freedom. And they are all SINCERE about their beliefs. Which one is right?
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned