sounds like a good deal for those who do benchmarks. wanna benchmark processors? do like we did with the Socket 7 days.. just take identical machines, and swap processors.
Because it was something almost completely unrelated to the ability to control volume that was causing the 300kb of XML to be loaded into memory.
The initial part of that though is commenting about the tons of intermingled libraries that don't ahve a damn THING to do with whatever is going on - it's like Dependency Hell, or DLL Hell, but for the code dependencies.
The second part was supposed to be somewhat more seperated from the first part.
But , basically, it comes down to this:
I want to use function C from library A just because it has it! Oh, that causes the entire library A to be loaded initialised, load all of the things it needs, so on so forth, when all I really want is a function to *insert some relatively easy task here*, but instead, I just triggered the demand loading of 22MB of code and 48MB of data by asking for something from library A! yay!
Hmm. I run XFCE4 fairly decently in 128MB, so long as I continue using Opera 8 as a browser, and don't want to load Mozilla or Firefox. Particularly now that the gaim memory leaks were apparently solved.
as an aside, I'm really hating the 2 minute post timeout, as it makes it more difficult to make several comments in different threads on discussions that I particularly enjoy. oh well.
hee hee hee I hadn't heard that about EMACS, but that's because i've been a 'vi' man since Unix System III was the big bad system. (I was about.. uh.. 10 then, so out of diapers.. hah)
The key combinations required of EMACS often seem to require six fingers per hand, both hands in use, and then.. why.. on earth.. would a text editor.. have the ability to be used as an IRC client? *shakes head*
I doubt there's any way to do a survey to check this, but I'd be willing to lay odds that the ratio of People who Do This For Fun, and People Who Do This As Their Job are better than 1000:1.. Just the people who do this as their job, are the ones doing the most visible and active projects.
That comment is incredibly out of date. My web server typically has 64+MB of it's 384MB free at any given time (even when being pounded by a Fark photoshop contest entry). On the other hand, my desktop has 128MB and is almost always 100+MB into the swap file at any given time. Thanks!
Everyone's tried to make use of the bazillions of different libraries available, that have all become extremely bloated over time, so that we're to the point where as is explained in one of the linked articles, "Yes, we are loading 300 kb of data from an xml file at bootup time to control the volume of the computer", and other wonderful things. Also the developers computers tend to have a lot more resources available perhaps than do many of the people who are just users.
I had been reporting memory leak problems with gaim since like v0.8something, and was repeatedly told along the lines of "i dont have any problems, and there haven't been any memory leaks found in several versions", and was summarily dismissed. Surely enough, in a recent versions changelog, "* large memory leaks plugged" or some such. Until the problem bites the authors of the project, no one cares.
Also, the absolute insane complexity of many of the things (layer upon layer upon layer upon layer upon layer of abstraction for no good reason at all except to have a high-level interface to a high level interface to a high level interface to a medium level interface to a low level interface)
My debian just updated from Mozilla 1.7.3 to 1.7.5, and there was a -huge- increase in responsiveness, before I start loading insane web pages. (And instead of allocating >150MB RAM after IPL, it now seems to use on the order of 3-4MB, at least until pages are loaded. This makes a -really- major difference in operations when you're on a computer with 128MB physical and 512MB in the swap.
Yeah, several pages that Slashdot has linked to in the last couple of weeks go right through Mozilla / Firefox's pop up blocker, in fact, with one of the Tab extensions that I have loaded in my home copy of Mozilla, it is supposed to treat all new windows as tabs.. and I've NEVER had a popup window happen in that browser.. (not even the ones I want to get, even enabling them in the preferences) till the other day.. clicked a story off of Slashdot, and it popped open a new window, which then closed a second later, and I had 4 new tabs open, all with different ads in them.
I hate being the voice of reason around here on Slashdot, but this one hit Fark late last night, and no one that i've found with any story on it whatsoever has actually put any weight towards "going to sue anyone" with it.
Has anyone dropped this guy an email saying "hey, that looks like the MAME logo that you just filed a trademark application for. Whatcha gonna do with it?"
Slashdot Mirror
Don't go and use our competitors products! Ours will have all their features, in a version or two!
Commercial software for Linux, that people will find USEFUL!! And not enterprise applications, and not games that have zero marketing!
I haven't RTFA, but i'd hope there'd be a way to buy a license for the Linux ver without having to ALSO get a Windows ver
er.. exactly who is really going to know about the preferential treatment, besides those of us who read that article?
no one!
sounds like a good deal for those who do benchmarks. wanna benchmark processors? do like we did with the Socket 7 days.. just take identical machines, and swap processors.
I'm afraid I don't see the subtle difference. What?
Only tool I've used since leaving DOS was 'vi'.
So why is there an EMACS, and not just an Elisp?
Why would you want to extend your text editor into so many different things?
It makes no SENSE!
Because it was something almost completely unrelated to the ability to control volume that was causing the 300kb of XML to be loaded into memory.
The initial part of that though is commenting about the tons of intermingled libraries that don't ahve a damn THING to do with whatever is going on - it's like Dependency Hell, or DLL Hell, but for the code dependencies.
The second part was supposed to be somewhat more seperated from the first part.
But , basically, it comes down to this:
I want to use function C from library A just because it has it! Oh, that causes the entire library A to be loaded initialised, load all of the things it needs, so on so forth, when all I really want is a function to *insert some relatively easy task here*, but instead, I just triggered the demand loading of 22MB of code and 48MB of data by asking for something from library A! yay!
not to even get into comprehending the ties to the other pieces of software
Hmm. I run XFCE4 fairly decently in 128MB, so long as I continue using Opera 8 as a browser, and don't want to load Mozilla or Firefox.
Particularly now that the gaim memory leaks were apparently solved.
as an aside, I'm really hating the 2 minute post timeout, as it makes it more difficult to make several comments in different threads on discussions that I particularly enjoy. oh well.
hee hee hee I hadn't heard that about EMACS, but that's because i've been a 'vi' man since Unix System III was the big bad system. (I was about.. uh.. 10 then, so out of diapers.. hah)
The key combinations required of EMACS often seem to require six fingers per hand, both hands in use, and then.. why.. on earth.. would a text editor.. have the ability to be used as an IRC client? *shakes head*
What?
Are?
You?
Smoking?
I doubt there's any way to do a survey to check this, but I'd be willing to lay odds that the ratio of People who Do This For Fun, and People Who Do This As Their Job are better than 1000:1.. Just the people who do this as their job, are the ones doing the most visible and active projects.
That comment is incredibly out of date. My web server typically has 64+MB of it's 384MB free at any given time (even when being pounded by a Fark photoshop contest entry). On the other hand, my desktop has 128MB and is almost always 100+MB into the swap file at any given time. Thanks!
It'll take me longer just to install GNOME and get it working, on my P3/600 with 128MB RAM than it will for some of these things to get fixed.
And to install the entire development trees and actually do a compile? Ludicrous. heh.
Everyone's tried to make use of the bazillions of different libraries available, that have all become extremely bloated over time, so that we're to the point where as is explained in one of the linked articles, "Yes, we are loading 300 kb of data from an xml file at bootup time to control the volume of the computer", and other wonderful things. Also the developers computers tend to have a lot more resources available perhaps than do many of the people who are just users.
I had been reporting memory leak problems with gaim since like v0.8something, and was repeatedly told along the lines of "i dont have any problems, and there haven't been any memory leaks found in several versions", and was summarily dismissed. Surely enough, in a recent versions changelog, "* large memory leaks plugged" or some such. Until the problem bites the authors of the project, no one cares.
Also, the absolute insane complexity of many of the things (layer upon layer upon layer upon layer upon layer of abstraction for no good reason at all except to have a high-level interface to a high level interface to a high level interface to a medium level interface to a low level interface)
...but didn't the original author of QDOS die alone and penniless back in 1985?
I can't imagine RMS actually lowering himself to the heights of the rest of most users, and actually using an Intel box, so why would he care?
And you need to STFU. I haven't used Windows since 3.1, and I have no intent to do so now.
Until fatal flaws are solved in firefox, I will continue to use mozilla-mail for general operations, and Opera when I need something that's fast.
oh, and I forgot to add in my other point..
Firefox still crashes on that machine every time I click anything that's not part of the menu bar.
hmm. Save 1 to 2 keystrokes, and have to commit to memory a bizarre combination sequence? Doesn't seem very worth it.
My debian just updated from Mozilla 1.7.3 to 1.7.5, and there was a -huge- increase in responsiveness, before I start loading insane web pages. (And instead of allocating >150MB RAM after IPL, it now seems to use on the order of 3-4MB, at least until pages are loaded. This makes a -really- major difference in operations when you're on a computer with 128MB physical and 512MB in the swap.
Yeah, several pages that Slashdot has linked to in the last couple of weeks go right through Mozilla / Firefox's pop up blocker, in fact, with one of the Tab extensions that I have loaded in my home copy of Mozilla, it is supposed to treat all new windows as tabs.. and I've NEVER had a popup window happen in that browser.. (not even the ones I want to get, even enabling them in the preferences) till the other day.. clicked a story off of Slashdot, and it popped open a new window, which then closed a second later, and I had 4 new tabs open, all with different ads in them.
light weight? is this why it sucks up about 122MB of ram before you even load a web page with it? (and this is with memory cache off)
Everyone here on Slashdot thinks Firefox is a godsend, but it's got it's own share of serious problems, and it's too complex to ever be fixed.
I hate being the voice of reason around here on Slashdot, but this one hit Fark late last night, and no one that i've found with any story on it whatsoever has actually put any weight towards "going to sue anyone" with it.
Has anyone dropped this guy an email saying "hey, that looks like the MAME logo that you just filed a trademark application for. Whatcha gonna do with it?"
Get a grip, people.
It's already too damn complex. Talking about adding more layers to an already ridiculously complex convoluted and way overdone system.
The reason X sucks is because there's too MUCH of this crap, not that it needs MORE crap to get around it.