I mean damn of all things you could give a person why give them your DNA?
If aliens decide to take over the world, well theres a map, our DNA so they can change their genes to look exactly like us, some wav files so they can learn how we talk and maybe even our language from the greetings. What the hell are Nasa scientists doing? Where is the government and national security?
I mean damn shouldnt the NSA outlaw us putting DNA into space and maps, I dare the scientist who gave our DNA to aliens to post his social security number and credit card number on the internet in plain text!
I dont care how many degrees you have, anyone ignorant enough to put pictures of us, our DNA, our sound files and everything into space deserves to have their asses kicked.
Its as stupid as me posting my social security number on slashdot, Here 002-32-4840
Here you go, please hiijack my identity, heres my credit card number too! James Spencer 220345035212
You really need to take your argument elsewhere. You are discussing the merits of rote memorization as a general course of learning in a thread based on a simple formula which shows the utility of the concept of algebra.
I never said ANYTHING was wrong with learning the concepts I said memorizing the formulas was wrong
It is impossible for you to deny the value of algebra with your current tack. It is also impossible for you to convince anyone that having tips in a general physical reference is more useful than a simple approximation which a child can do.
I never said algebra was bad, and that learning the concepts were wrong, I'm talking about the formulas and trivial shit which you dont need to learn to understand things enough to program in C for example or do your daily living
Your points about learning about "useful" things as opposed to rote formulas sound like comments engendered from a particular issue with the way that you were educated and might be better received if not only prefaced as such, but also taken to a more general discussion of education, not a particular trivial example of a utilitaritian piece of algebra.
Thats just it, I educated myself. Most people in public school end up doing the same. Anyone whos intelligent has the ability to educate themselves because thats what real intelligence is, not being spoon fed knowledge and memorizing random facts and routines.
Most people who know alot of random facts and who know alittle bit of everything, end up not knowing anything very well. An intelligent person can afford to be lazy and should be lazy because you cannot focus on what you want to do, if you are always focused on doing useless tasks and memorizing random facts which you dont REALLY need to memorize just so you can not be lazy.
Why should I learn all the formulas when I can write them down or store them on a PDA or calculator? Why should I calculate in my head when a calculator can do it? Why should I fill my brain up with formulas, steps, rules, and other junk just so I can calculate random math problems a few seconds faster?
Its not worth the investment in time and effort in my opinion. Its not a matter of not being capable, I'm capable, but I dont think its worth the time and effort I'd have to put to get myself to remember that junk.
People rememeber what matters to them, thats what it comes down to, what matters to you might be these formulas, what matters to me might be something else.
To stress my opinion so everyone can understand the logic behind it. Time is valueable, you can invest your time which could be months or years learning a bunch of formulas, steps, rules and other esoteric math garbage just so you can calculate a math problem in your head and save a few seconds from having to pull out a calculator.
What you have here is an investment of say a years worth of time(at least), to save you seconds of time in the future during rare moments when you dont want to pull out your calculator, or when you dont have it.
Or you can invest your time actually thinking about stuff that matters.
Time is the constant, the information is the variable, and the pointer is the link to your brain. Just as a computer program doing a bunch of tasks it doesnt have to do, ends up being a bloated slow program, the human brain works the same way, when you invest your brain on things you dont have to think about, you slow your brain down overall.
So have fun filling your brain up with formulas, I'd prefer to keep mine on paper, while you were learning some silly formulas to calculate with, and investing all that time and effort into remembering how many atoms is inside gold, I used my time to learn things which matter such as computers, programming, windows, linux, computer hardware, how TCPIP works, how the internet works, how quantum computing works, how nano technology works, and alot of other technologies, because this is what is interesting to me.
Should I tell everyone who uses a computer that they should fill their heads up with all this information just to use a computer? Hell no, let them use dumbed down windows, let them pay me to do stuff for them.
They arent Lazy, they just spent their time doing other things, like being social, going to parties, and getting drunk.
Like I said, not everyone wants to memorize useless formulas.
Sure you'll memorize how to tie your shoes, its useful to know, its important, you cant put on your shoe without this formula.
Whats this have to do with what you talk about? Most people who dont like math or who arent interested in that crap arent going to remember it. It can be a two step formula or even a one step formula, why should a person remember it if they deem it useless?
Theres alot of names I cant remember. Theres alot of area codes I cant remember, just because I may have seen a list of all the area codes in the city does not mean I can remember each area code. Why should I memorize every phone number in the phone book? I just memorize the ones I call.
So you are saying political skills? This has nothing to do with beinng well rounded either, most politicians are far from well rounded, they are usually morally weak, they dont handle money very well most of the time, and have problems with greed and being in control.
In a worst-case, a single parent working two jobs must just come home and want to go to bed. Do the children ever get real home-cooked meals, or do they eat out of wrappers, boxes, and cans all the time?
You learn to eat cereal, and snacks. I also would go to my grandmothers house to get food sometimes.
Changing the subject, I just realized exactly what you meant by a residential school (earlier I had just read the first sentence of your post). I went to a residential school for the last two years of high school, and it was both an excellent experience and a mediocre one. I was in one for a year. I learned more in a year than I learned in any other school.
The excellent side of it was the 24/7 education you mentioned. There was a lot of intra-dorm interaction concerning homework, hobbies, games, etc. Also, it was a self-contained campus, where the dorms and classroom buildings were all on the same block. In this respect it really was great.
Also most of the social interaction is positive, its a really small community, so when someone is a theif, or a liar, everyone knows about the person, its easier to make friends because the reputation system really worked. Living with people also allows you to make friends VERY easily.
The mediocre side is that being under 18 at a residential school really sucked. They set absolute policies about curfews, no cars, and no opposite-sex visits in the dorms (except during pre-approved time slots). This wasn't a religious school, either; it was just a school where the parents were way too paranoid and wanted these policies for their "comfort".
This is exactly what you'd need if you grew up in a single family household in a crappy neighborhood, you'd need exactly that kind of enviornment. However for someone like you who had 2 parents, most likely in a safe neighborhood, well its ok for you to hang around outside.
These restrictions made socialization very strained, overall, and hampered our ability to compete against other local schools in Science Olympiads-type comptetitions. Imagine trying to build something when you don't have a car, can't go off campus for too long fearing the curfew, and don't have garages and basements full of junk to draw from. In these competitions, we ended up performing weakly, simply because the other schools came up with awesome contraptions that were beyond our mean
Yes but school isnt about competition, we didnt have much competition, our focus was on education, we did go out, but at the time I was in middleschool, I wasnt demanding freedom, most dont demand freedom until around 14-15, I was 12-13. This is why I say it should be done in middleschool and not highschool.
Another mediocre aspect of the school was the burn out. Going to this school was essentially another two years of college before the regular four years of college, and quite a few kids just didn't make it. Some dropped out of college, and others just didn't shine as brightly as they could have. I'm not sure what proportion of students fit into this category, since there were certainly those who flew right through college going on to get Ivy-League Ph.D.s
I think for kids with single parents who are in poverty living in a bad neighborhood, its the perfect solution for them. For kids with 2 parents, in a nice house, in a good neighborhood, I dont think it would benifit the kid as much but it would still be a good experience.
In general the kids who are doing the worst in school are the ones who come home to an empty house, who get into trouble because they dont have parents to watch over them, and who only have their friends who might not be the best influence.
Sure it can be done in your head, all math can be done in your head, but not everyone wants to or will store the formulas in their head, alot of people have other focuses in life and unless a person focuses on math, they arent going to remember that stuff.
Being well rounded is not important in the real world. Being successful is whats important. No one gives a damn how well rounded you are as long as you are good at whatever you do. Just ask Bill Gates.
Unless you are around alot of intelligent peers who are social in a GOOD way.
Your kid will not learn to be social, if other kids bully him everyday and kick his ass. Your kid wont be social if by being social people tease him, make fun of him, and humiliate him every time he ever tries.
So believing public school will teach you to be social, its a dream, in a perfect world were everyone smiles and is nice to everyone else yeah, but in the real world people are mean and cruel, especially young people. So expect your kid to pick up alot of wounds and scars because you wanted him to be social, and it could backfire, your kid could end less social like I did, or your kid could go insane like those two kids from columbine, theres alot of possibilities.
Good point,in public school not so much highschool but middle school and elementary school, social interaction = getting your ass kicked, bullied, teased, picked on, etc.
So no, social interaction would be what you'd want to get away from, not what you'd want to experience. Recess? You'd hate going to recess because the bully would be waiting for you to kick your ass. Lunch? Be prepared to give your lunch to the Bully or get your ass kicked after school.
Theres alot of bad social interaction people never even consider, the teasing, the bullying, etc it can add up over time and ruin peoples self esteem if they arent strong enough.
I'm sure alot of kids commit sucide because of this social interaction, including the kids from columbine.
You see, its good to have social interaction when its with intelligent peers, but when you are surrounded by ignorant peers, you'll get picked on, harrassed and bullied.
Social Interaction is good when its with intelligent people. Social Interaction sucks when you get your ass kicked every day by bullies, but for alot of kids growing up, thats what they have to look forward to when going to school.
"hmm which bully is going to kick my ass and take my lunch money today?"
You do realize alot of parents work 2 jobs dont you? For low income families, residential education would be a perfect solution.
I suggest we build more residential schools, it would have the benifit of both worlds.
A 24/7 education. 24/7 social interaction. Students could be home with family on weekends if they want or stay, students could go home at any time with parents permission etc, this would be perfect for middle school aged students.
I dont think as many highschool students would benifit from this, although some might.
If you want kids to learn social skills and get a good education you are better off putting your kids in a residential private school where they'll live on a campus like atmosphere.
They will learn how to deal with people their own age by living with them as this is the best way. Also they would get a better education because they would always have a teacher around to help them at any time of the day or night.
Parents are supposed to help with teaching but in this day and age, parents often have to work 2 jobs and dont have time, I think residential schools would solve alot of problems.
Slashdot Mirror
I mean damn of all things you could give a person why give them your DNA?
If aliens decide to take over the world, well theres a map, our DNA so they can change their genes to look exactly like us, some wav files so they can learn how we talk and maybe even our language from the greetings. What the hell are Nasa scientists doing? Where is the government and national security?
I mean damn shouldnt the NSA outlaw us putting DNA into space and maps, I dare the scientist who gave our DNA to aliens to post his social security number and credit card number on the internet in plain text!
I dont care how many degrees you have, anyone ignorant enough to put pictures of us, our DNA, our sound files and everything into space deserves to have their asses kicked.
Its as stupid as me posting my social security number on slashdot, Here 002-32-4840
Here you go, please hiijack my identity, heres my credit card number too! James Spencer 220345035212
Why do we put our DNA in space like that? Its fucking stupid!!
What next? Displaying your social security number on the INTERNET? Yeah let all the terrorists and hackers grab your identity?
Well thats what we are doing in space, dumbass Nasa scientists should get their ass kicked seriously.
My point is, if you dont have to memorize something why would you memorize it? People memorize things only when they have to.
You really need to take your argument elsewhere. You are discussing the merits of rote memorization as a general course of learning in a thread based on a simple formula which shows the utility of the concept of algebra.
I never said ANYTHING was wrong with learning the concepts I said memorizing the formulas was wrong
It is impossible for you to deny the value of algebra with your current tack. It is also impossible for you to convince anyone that having tips in a general physical reference is more useful than a simple approximation which a child can do.
I never said algebra was bad, and that learning the concepts were wrong, I'm talking about the formulas and trivial shit which you dont need to learn to understand things enough to program in C for example or do your daily living
Your points about learning about "useful" things as opposed to rote formulas sound like comments engendered from a particular issue with the way that you were educated and might be better received if not only prefaced as such, but also taken to a more general discussion of education, not a particular trivial example of a utilitaritian piece of algebra.
Thats just it, I educated myself. Most people in public school end up doing the same. Anyone whos intelligent has the ability to educate themselves because thats what real intelligence is, not being spoon fed knowledge and memorizing random facts and routines.
Make them memorize the programs instead of learning how to write them, see how good of a programmer they are lol.
So you teach them to memorize hello world ?
#include
int main()
{
printf("Hello World");
return 0;
}
Yeah so they memorize that and they are a programmer?
Most people who know alot of random facts and who know alittle bit of everything, end up not knowing anything very well. An intelligent person can afford to be lazy and should be lazy because you cannot focus on what you want to do, if you are always focused on doing useless tasks and memorizing random facts which you dont REALLY need to memorize just so you can not be lazy.
Why should I learn all the formulas when I can write them down or store them on a PDA or calculator? Why should I calculate in my head when a calculator can do it? Why should I fill my brain up with formulas, steps, rules, and other junk just so I can calculate random math problems a few seconds faster?
Its not worth the investment in time and effort in my opinion. Its not a matter of not being capable, I'm capable, but I dont think its worth the time and effort I'd have to put to get myself to remember that junk.
People rememeber what matters to them, thats what it comes down to, what matters to you might be these formulas, what matters to me might be something else.
To stress my opinion so everyone can understand the logic behind it. Time is valueable, you can invest your time which could be months or years learning a bunch of formulas, steps, rules and other esoteric math garbage just so you can calculate a math problem in your head and save a few seconds from having to pull out a calculator.
What you have here is an investment of say a years worth of time(at least), to save you seconds of time in the future during rare moments when you dont want to pull out your calculator, or when you dont have it.
Or you can invest your time actually thinking about stuff that matters.
Time is the constant, the information is the variable, and the pointer is the link to your brain. Just as a computer program doing a bunch of tasks it doesnt have to do, ends up being a bloated slow program, the human brain works the same way, when you invest your brain on things you dont have to think about, you slow your brain down overall.
So have fun filling your brain up with formulas, I'd prefer to keep mine on paper, while you were learning some silly formulas to calculate with, and investing all that time and effort into remembering how many atoms is inside gold, I used my time to learn things which matter such as computers, programming, windows, linux, computer hardware, how TCPIP works, how the internet works, how quantum computing works, how nano technology works, and alot of other technologies, because this is what is interesting to me.
Should I tell everyone who uses a computer that they should fill their heads up with all this information just to use a computer? Hell no, let them use dumbed down windows, let them pay me to do stuff for them.
They arent Lazy, they just spent their time doing other things, like being social, going to parties, and getting drunk.
Like I said, not everyone wants to memorize useless formulas.
Sure you'll memorize how to tie your shoes, its useful to know, its important, you cant put on your shoe without this formula.
Whats this have to do with what you talk about? Most people who dont like math or who arent interested in that crap arent going to remember it. It can be a two step formula or even a one step formula, why should a person remember it if they deem it useless?
Theres alot of names I cant remember. Theres alot of area codes I cant remember, just because I may have seen a list of all the area codes in the city does not mean I can remember each area code. Why should I memorize every phone number in the phone book? I just memorize the ones I call.
Yeah but not everyone wants to or is good at memorizing formulas. Especially when theres no logical reason to do so.
Memorizing formulas is like learnign to do math in your head, we all are capble of doing it but its not worth the effort.
Thats why there are solar calculator, next you'll say we shouldnt use a pen because it might run out of ink!
Anyone should be able to do anything, but this doesnt mean everyone wants to do everything.
Why do you think we invented the calculator, the computer, or even pen and paper? So you dont have to do this in your head.
Welcome to 2002.
So you are saying political skills?
This has nothing to do with beinng well rounded either, most politicians are far from well rounded, they are usually morally weak, they dont handle money very well most of the time, and have problems with greed and being in control.
I grew up in one of those households.
In a worst-case, a single parent working two jobs must just come home and want to go to bed. Do the children ever get real home-cooked meals, or do they eat out of wrappers, boxes, and cans all the time?
You learn to eat cereal, and snacks. I also would go to my grandmothers house to get food sometimes.
Changing the subject, I just realized exactly what you meant by a residential school (earlier I had just read the first sentence of your post). I went to a residential school for the last two years of high school, and it was both an excellent experience and a mediocre one. I was in one for a year. I learned more in a year than I learned in any other school.
The excellent side of it was the 24/7 education you mentioned. There was a lot of intra-dorm interaction concerning homework, hobbies, games, etc. Also, it was a self-contained campus, where the dorms and classroom buildings were all on the same block. In this respect it really was great.
Also most of the social interaction is positive, its a really small community, so when someone is a theif, or a liar, everyone knows about the person, its easier to make friends because the reputation system really worked. Living with people also allows you to make friends VERY easily.
The mediocre side is that being under 18 at a residential school really sucked. They set absolute policies about curfews, no cars, and no opposite-sex visits in the dorms (except during pre-approved time slots). This wasn't a religious school, either; it was just a school where the parents were way too paranoid and wanted these policies for their "comfort".
This is exactly what you'd need if you grew up in a single family household in a crappy neighborhood, you'd need exactly that kind of enviornment. However for someone like you who had 2 parents, most likely in a safe neighborhood, well its ok for you to hang around outside.
These restrictions made socialization very strained, overall, and hampered our ability to compete against other local schools in Science Olympiads-type comptetitions. Imagine trying to build something when you don't have a car, can't go off campus for too long fearing the curfew, and don't have garages and basements full of junk to draw from. In these competitions, we ended up performing weakly, simply because the other schools came up with awesome contraptions that were beyond our mean
Yes but school isnt about competition, we didnt have much competition, our focus was on education, we did go out, but at the time I was in middleschool, I wasnt demanding freedom, most dont demand freedom until around 14-15, I was 12-13. This is why I say it should be done in middleschool and not highschool.
Another mediocre aspect of the school was the burn out. Going to this school was essentially another two years of college before the regular four years of college, and quite a few kids just didn't make it. Some dropped out of college, and others just didn't shine as brightly as they could have. I'm not sure what proportion of students fit into this category, since there were certainly those who flew right through college going on to get Ivy-League Ph.D.s
I think for kids with single parents who are in poverty living in a bad neighborhood, its the perfect solution for them. For kids with 2 parents, in a nice house, in a good neighborhood, I dont think it would benifit the kid as much but it would still be a good experience.
In general the kids who are doing the worst in school are the ones who come home to an empty house, who get into trouble because they dont have parents to watch over them, and who only have their friends who might not be the best influence.
you can drill forever, not everyone learns by drills.
So what happens to the people who dont learn this way?
If you read my post correctly you'd see I agreed with you.
Sure it can be done in your head, all math can be done in your head, but not everyone wants to or will store the formulas in their head, alot of people have other focuses in life and unless a person focuses on math, they arent going to remember that stuff.
Why be stupid and learn what a calculator is made to do? Pointless to waste your mental abilities on it.
uh, theres more single mothers raising children than ever before.
about 40 percent of all families are single parent households
Being well rounded is not important in the real world. Being successful is whats important. No one gives a damn how well rounded you are as long as you are good at whatever you do. Just ask Bill Gates.
Unless you are around alot of intelligent peers who are social in a GOOD way.
Your kid will not learn to be social, if other kids bully him everyday and kick his ass. Your kid wont be social if by being social people tease him, make fun of him, and humiliate him every time he ever tries.
So believing public school will teach you to be social, its a dream, in a perfect world were everyone smiles and is nice to everyone else yeah, but in the real world people are mean and cruel, especially young people. So expect your kid to pick up alot of wounds and scars because you wanted him to be social, and it could backfire, your kid could end less social like I did, or your kid could go insane like those two kids from columbine, theres alot of possibilities.
Good point,in public school not so much highschool but middle school and elementary school, social interaction = getting your ass kicked, bullied, teased, picked on, etc.
So no, social interaction would be what you'd want to get away from, not what you'd want to experience. Recess? You'd hate going to recess because the bully would be waiting for you to kick your ass. Lunch? Be prepared to give your lunch to the Bully or get your ass kicked after school.
Theres alot of bad social interaction people never even consider, the teasing, the bullying, etc it can add up over time and ruin peoples self esteem if they arent strong enough.
I'm sure alot of kids commit sucide because of this social interaction, including the kids from columbine.
You see, its good to have social interaction when its with intelligent peers, but when you are surrounded by ignorant peers, you'll get picked on, harrassed and bullied.
Social Interaction is good when its with intelligent people. Social Interaction sucks when you get your ass kicked every day by bullies, but for alot of kids growing up, thats what they have to look forward to when going to school.
"hmm which bully is going to kick my ass and take my lunch money today?"
You do realize alot of parents work 2 jobs dont you?
For low income families, residential education would be a perfect solution.
I suggest we build more residential schools, it would have the benifit of both worlds.
A 24/7 education. 24/7 social interaction. Students could be home with family on weekends if they want or stay, students could go home at any time with parents permission etc, this would be perfect for middle school aged students.
I dont think as many highschool students would benifit from this, although some might.
If you want kids to learn social skills and get a good education you are better off putting your kids in a residential private school where they'll live on a campus like atmosphere.
They will learn how to deal with people their own age by living with them as this is the best way. Also they would get a better education because they would always have a teacher around to help them at any time of the day or night.
Parents are supposed to help with teaching but in this day and age, parents often have to work 2 jobs and dont have time, I think residential schools would solve alot of problems.
yeah hes insane and believes everyone went to private school like he did lol.
1000 on your SATs? Thats fine but dont assume everyone would get it, its just a damn test anyway.