But you are still better off with the cops over the mob guys who have beaten you up and threatened you and your family. If moral and ethical obligations don't drive you do the cops, then getting beat up should. If you end up dead for going to the cops, then it was likely you would have eventually ended up there anyway and what did you loose? Not much.
But in this case, the story doesn't add up all that well. Yea they try to make the case that they where forced into this, but what the claim doesn't add up. They where running around free, even claim they tried to get "fired" by making their stuff not work all the time. They had ample opportunity to leave, but kept taking the money, full knowing where it came from. There story smells like the trash bin behind the fish monger's. I suppose it might be true, but it could just be an attempt at a book/movie deal too.
I don't see where they meet all 4 requirements for this defense... There was no immediate and inescapable threat of harm that ran the entire length of their employment as they where largely free to do what they wanted and where being paid for their work.
People act like what they see in the made for TV crime drama's are true life... These two fools, if their story is actually based in real life, where idiots, both in what they managed to actually do and how they are trying to claim innocence because they where coerced into it.
IMHO, there story is too fishy. Either they had ample opportunity to get out and choose to stay and collect the money, or they are angling for a book and movie/book deal and none of this actually happened.
For Pete's sake, this isn't a TV series or Movie... Read the linked article, it reads like a crime drama for a reason. These guys are cooking a lot of this up and are either trying to get away with something, or are looking for a book/movie deal.
I promise that the police are not going to "hop to" and put some kind of "protective detail" on you and yours while they bring down the big, bad mob.
You are in no position to "promise" anything about how the police would act. But look at the situation... You are supposedly "caught" in something illegal, you know it is, you know these guys will physically harm you and the longer you keep on the path you are on, the more likely harm will come to you and the deeper you are getting into something you presumably don't want to be involved in. You are STUPID if you don't at least try to make an exit, as soon as you understand the situation. Morals and ethics demand you at least try....
The vast majority of the police are underpaid public servants who willingly risk their lives out of a sense of duty. Some do it for ego, but even these would jump at the chance to help you, if for no other reason than to notch their belts again. So that just leaves the vanishing few that *might* be corrupted by the organization you are trying to flee. Your odds are really good you won't have an issue.
I would think that what makes sense is to get away from those who have already shown the willingness to beat you up. If that means taking a risk by calling the local police department and talking to some random detective about your plight over the phone is better odds than staying on the course you are on.
Common sense says call the cops, call a couple of them if you want to be sure... What doesn't make any sense is staying in the employ of people doing illegal things and beating you up... Unless you really just did it for the money to start with.
You've never imagined having a gun to your kids' head, have you?
No... But this is NOT the movies or TV. Nobody was being held captive, they had their personal cell phones, cars, homes and where freely walking around. Nobody had a gun to their head 24/7...
Surely there was a time and opportunity to make a move to reach out to authorities, make a phone call, send an E-mail or two, or get somebody in your family to help you. This went on for MONTHS.... Surely there was a number of possible exit ramps one could have taken. Heck, they claim to have had enough time to discuss and implement ways to disrupt what was going on. They had time and opportunity to get out if they wanted too.
You've never imagined having a gun to your kids' head, have you?
life > illegality
No... But this is NOT the movies or TV. Nobody was being held captive, they had their personal cell phones, cars, homes and where freely walking around. Nobody had a gun to their head 24/7...
Surely there was a time and opportunity to make a move to reach out to authorities, make a phone call, send an E-mail or two, or get somebody in your family to help you. This went on for MONTHS.... Surely there was a number of possible exit ramps one could have taken. Heck, they claim to have had enough time to discuss and implement ways to disrupt what was going on. They had time and opportunity to get out if they wanted too.
Once you realize what you are doing and for who you are doing it, you contact the authorities. These guys continued to cooperate, continued to engage and despite their attempts to soften their story, are responsible for their actions. Intimidation is not an excuse, it's perhaps a reason, but it doesn't absolve you of the moral and ethical obligation to turn yourself in.
My guess is that they are trying to get some sympathy by cooking up this "We tried to resist, without getting killed" defense. At the very least, you use all that IT knowledge and start reaching out to authorities. Heck, walk into a police station and turn your self in, offer to be an informant, explain to them what's going on and tell them you need help getting out. I'm sure any number of customs officials would have jumped at the chance to help them out for the information they obviously had. I'm also sure that any prosecutor would have loved to let them plea bargain (or just plain offered immunity) as well.
No, despite the intimidation they claim, I'm not inclined to believe they where powerless to help themselves, nor am I inclined to think they should be given lighter sentences for what they participated in. The jails are full of people who claim they where wrongly incarcerated. Some claim to be innocent, some claim the sentence was wrong, some claim they couldn't help it, but nearly all of them are just lying. These guys are in the same boat.
So you are going to invent a hypothetical situation here? Well, maybe this armed person is sitting 2 rows back and the shooter is concentrating on the other side of the theater and CAN get a good shot or two off. Or maybe the shooter is directly aiming at the armed good guy and they both fire at the same time? Say there are TWO or more armed folks who can engage the shooter from different directions? The possibilities are endless, but hypothetical. I say we just skip the hypothetical arguments though because they are pointless.
I contend that we need to arm good people. If armed people can just SLOW DOWN the shooter by making him wary about getting shot you will likely have less innocent people dead when the thing is over. The more good guys we have armed and ready, the less damage the lone shooter will manage, so get as many people armed as you can. There are many (like me) who are willing to carry, but cannot because the law prevents me.
Someone in the theater is more likely to disrupt an active shooter WITH a gun than without one. Until the police arrive in 5 to 10 min, it's all you got and it's better than just being a victim. This isn't about keeping bad things from happening, but limiting the damage being done when they happen. Disarming everybody but the bad guys is a sure fire way to enable the crazies to do more damage. Having armed folks doesn't prevent a crazy from trying something, but it sure can disrupt their attempts and limit the harm they can manage, if not outright end the event.
Ok.. Austerity AND violence are coming to Greece. Printing their own currency doesn't help this, at least in the short term. Nobody wants Greek money so they won't sell them anything for it and won't loan them anything else because they don't pay you back.
Feeding people subsistence amounts of food will cost more than Greece can pay.
Further, the ONLY real industry that Greece has that brings in foreign currency (tourism) is about to be totally decimated by riots and violence.
Greece is about to be left in tatters and remanded to third world status, unless they reverse their minds and elect to accept austerity. All this brinkmanship going on is only doing grave damage to Greece.
I don't know who you think "they" are but it's not the government of Greece. The government has NO MONEY and has no way to raise any money. It cannot even print money. After the vote this weekend, they will have nearly zero economic activity to tax and have no income. So where they'd surely love to keep paying out on social programs, they simply will not be able to. The poor and retired will stop getting their benefits, many will die for lack of food, medication and basic medical care.
Now if you are talking about humanitarian aid from OUTSIDE Greece, you might be right on that score. But the bulk of this assistance will NOT come from the government of Greece.
We apparently don't differ on the facts, just perspective.
I understand that the Greek people *think* there vote means something else and that they think being forced out of the euro is not possible, but I assure you that they are wrong on both counts.
There is little political will in favor of bailing out Greece, except in Greece. Everybody knows (except the Greeks apparently) that such a bailout without further concessions from Greece will set off a slew of demands from the likes of Italy, Spain and other countries in the euro which in total would be a huge problem for ALL the countries in the euro. Problems big enough to end the euro, the Eurozone and put much of Europe back on the path to a regional conflict similar to what it was before both world wars.
When a debtor says "No, I won't make any more changes to my budgets to satisfy you." to it's creditors, then what happens is the creditors say "Ok, we wont' loan you anymore money" and they force bankruptcy and write off the debt. In the case of Greece, this collapses their economy, crushes their banks, bankrupts the government and effectively isolates the country from the euro. The *ONLY* choice for Greece at that point is to withdraw from the euro, move to their own currency and hunker down to weather the decades long financial storm, violence and upheaval.
So, even if the Greeks believe that they voted for something else, what they said to their creditors was quite clear.
The real question here is how long will the Greek government stay in power and try to hold out for "a better deal". The longer this goes, the longer they refuse to make changes, the more likely this turns into an extremely violent and uncontrollable situation and the more damage will be done to Greece. I have a feeling that as the banks run out of currency and desperation sets in the people of Greece will start to realize what they really voted for isn't what they thought, but by then it will be too late.
Austerity is coming to Greece, Make no mistake... The only question is will it be accepted by the people willingly, or forced onto them though external forces and internal violence.
It's problems with debt pre-date 2008. The S&L crisis just induced a world wide recession that Greece could ill afford because even then it was tittering on the edge. The recession was the thing that pushed them over the cliff. But the seeds of this problem where sown decades ago, even before they entered the Eurozone.
All we've done since then is to delay the problem... Well, we are out of road to kick the can down, and the Greek people just voted themselves over the cliff. This won't be pretty.
Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.
A strong national defense is VITAL to the security of both the USA and the world. The last 200+ years of history show this to be true, and the graves of the dead are reminders of what happens when you forget your history.
The "problem" is the attitude that borrowing has no limits and that voting to keep the government doling out benefits it has no means to pay for is a good idea. The GDP fall and unemployment are unfortunate events, but they where impacted by the same policies that had the government borrowing. The Greek people voted for this (not just once, but many times), in large part, and thus are responsible for what's coming.
However, this is not to discount the fact that being in the Euro has also been a problem, that Greece has paid for the mismanagement of the Eurozone too.
IMHO, Greece (et all) are going to be squeezed between excessive debt and the Eurozone. Had Greece not gone on the Euro, or had they gone to austerity long before their creditors demanded it of them, we would all be talking about something else.
Yes, the middle class will pay with money, but the poor will pay with their lives and suffering. As Greece collapses, those who have nothing and are dependent on the government will pay first. Starvation, violence and sickness will kill them. The middle class will just become poor...
They mistakenly believed that "a better deal" would come because Greece was "too big to fail" as part of the euro.
Personally, I don't think the vote bodes well for the people of Greece. It tells the creditors that the people don't/won't do what's necessary to repay the debts, and I don't think the creditors like that message because they won't get paid back. So the options are either just give Greece money and bail them out, or cut them loose from the euro. I don't think there is a political way that the other euro countries can just give Greece money, so that only leaves an implosion of the economy of Greece and a whole lot of pain and suffering for the least of the Greek people.
So they voted for this "theory" of a better deal, but they will get what they fear most. They will be ejected from the euro, violence and suffering is on the way.
If was living in Greece now, and had marketable skills, I would be leaving too.
I'd call you stupid if you where still in Greece myself....
The writing has been on the wall for Greece for nearly 2 years. It has been obvious that Greece was trying the patience of it's creditors and that eventually they would all get tired of kicking the can down the road. If that wasn't enough for you, the last elected government's platform should have made it clear to everybody who was working in Greece that it was time to get out because the door was slamming shut very soon.
If you are still there now, not only did you stupidly ignore what the world knew was coming, you are going to likely loose a bunch of cash you left in the bank and any real assets you hold are going to be nearly worthless for quite awhile. Also, inflation is going to make any cash left in your hands worth even less.
Good luck leaving Greece now... Where it might be a good idea even still, you won't get out with anything because they won't let you take anything with you.
"A developer working in Greece will pay taxes in Greece"
No he won't. That's why they're in this mess.
He won't, but it's not the flight of labor out of Greece that's the cause of this problem. It's a symptom of the deep rooted issue that has doomed Greece to be crushed between their national debt and the Eurozone.
The MESS is caused by the baby boom and Greece's liberal government funded pensions (we call it Social Security in the USA). The boomers are getting older, consuming more and more resources but having long sense retired produce nothing. That leaves fewer and fewer workers to collect taxes from in Greece, which forced more borrowing, higher taxes and dropping benefits. Of course, being in the Eurozone doesn't help, because if you want to leave Greece, it's easy to jump ship, especially if you are a young person who doesn't own property or have a family. But the problem that doomed Greece was demographics and simple math. You cannot promise to give out such generous benefits where there is no possible way to pay for them.
The really scary part here is that Greece is but the tip of the iceberg, both in the Eurozone and in the world. Spain and Italy are both tittering on the edge and the disruption that is Greece's exit from the euro is likely enough to push them over too. With that many people in abject poverty, I suspect that violence will be nearly unavoidable.
The banks are not the cause of the problem here, but the symptom of the sickness that's killing Greece (and countries in similar situations). Greek banks WILL fail. They don't have stacks of euros to stuff into the ATM's and the people of Greece are desperately trying to empty their accounts because everybody knows that if you leave your cash in the bank, you won't get it out. Everybody wants to be in hard currency, euros. The banks have run out.
Ask yourself, how did Greece get to this point? Basically it's because they failed to make the most recent payment on their national debt. There isn't enough euros in the government coffers to make the payment, they defaulted and now they cannot borrow because nobody wants to lend them anything. Why is the government in Greece at this point? Because they SPENT money they didn't have and cannot raise. Normally countries just print more currency to pay loans, but you cannot do that when it's euros you need to print.
So what did Greece spend all this money on? Early retirement for everybody and social programs. Socialism in leaning, if not actual practice is what has Greece into crushing debt.
Greece is being crushed between the Eurozone and their debt, the debt that funded their social programs. The sad part though is that the people who will really pay for this are the poor, the people who didn't have the ability to move their assets OUT of Greece.
So, lets get this straight... You are for people out in the country being able to print parts for their guns because getting parts might be hard? Um, so if they cannot mail order gun parts, where on earth are they going to get a 3D printer and supplies to run it?
The rest of your post is 100% not original thinking but pabulum rhetoric from the Anti-Gun crowd. Of course gun laws don't stop bad guys from using guns in bad ways, new laws will have the same problem, only the law abiding will follow them, bad people won't care. The problem YOU have is that until you take 100% of the guns off the streets and out of EVERYBODY'S hands there is no way your utopian views will ever eliminate the "bad people" doing "bad things" which happen to be illegal. However, the 2nd amendment prevents you from disarming the citizens in the USA. Guns are here to stay.
What we actually NEED in this situation is to ARM the law abiding. Put guns in the hands of good people. Give them the ability to protect themselves and others from the nut cases hell bent on shooting people for what ever reason. Make it so these crazed "I don't care what the law says I'm going to shoot somebody" shooters don't last long because waiting for the police to get there takes too long, too many people die while the police are responding.
ONE gun in the hands of a ordinary citizen in the movie theater, could have prevented many deaths. Multiple guns would have been even better... Sure, people may still die, but in an active shooter situation, if you can stop the shooter sooner, less people die.
Slashdot Mirror
But you are still better off with the cops over the mob guys who have beaten you up and threatened you and your family. If moral and ethical obligations don't drive you do the cops, then getting beat up should. If you end up dead for going to the cops, then it was likely you would have eventually ended up there anyway and what did you loose? Not much.
But in this case, the story doesn't add up all that well. Yea they try to make the case that they where forced into this, but what the claim doesn't add up. They where running around free, even claim they tried to get "fired" by making their stuff not work all the time. They had ample opportunity to leave, but kept taking the money, full knowing where it came from. There story smells like the trash bin behind the fish monger's. I suppose it might be true, but it could just be an attempt at a book/movie deal too.
I don't see where they meet all 4 requirements for this defense... There was no immediate and inescapable threat of harm that ran the entire length of their employment as they where largely free to do what they wanted and where being paid for their work.
People act like what they see in the made for TV crime drama's are true life... These two fools, if their story is actually based in real life, where idiots, both in what they managed to actually do and how they are trying to claim innocence because they where coerced into it.
IMHO, there story is too fishy. Either they had ample opportunity to get out and choose to stay and collect the money, or they are angling for a book and movie/book deal and none of this actually happened.
For Pete's sake, this isn't a TV series or Movie... Read the linked article, it reads like a crime drama for a reason. These guys are cooking a lot of this up and are either trying to get away with something, or are looking for a book/movie deal.
I promise that the police are not going to "hop to" and put some kind of "protective detail" on you and yours while they bring down the big, bad mob.
You are in no position to "promise" anything about how the police would act. But look at the situation... You are supposedly "caught" in something illegal, you know it is, you know these guys will physically harm you and the longer you keep on the path you are on, the more likely harm will come to you and the deeper you are getting into something you presumably don't want to be involved in. You are STUPID if you don't at least try to make an exit, as soon as you understand the situation. Morals and ethics demand you at least try....
Of course, if you like the money.....
Talk's cheap.
Touché... But you got to admit that these guys' story smells like the waste bin at the local fish monger's....
Oh, so you want to talk sense eh?
The vast majority of the police are underpaid public servants who willingly risk their lives out of a sense of duty. Some do it for ego, but even these would jump at the chance to help you, if for no other reason than to notch their belts again. So that just leaves the vanishing few that *might* be corrupted by the organization you are trying to flee. Your odds are really good you won't have an issue.
I would think that what makes sense is to get away from those who have already shown the willingness to beat you up. If that means taking a risk by calling the local police department and talking to some random detective about your plight over the phone is better odds than staying on the course you are on.
Common sense says call the cops, call a couple of them if you want to be sure... What doesn't make any sense is staying in the employ of people doing illegal things and beating you up... Unless you really just did it for the money to start with.
You've never imagined having a gun to your kids' head, have you?
No... But this is NOT the movies or TV. Nobody was being held captive, they had their personal cell phones, cars, homes and where freely walking around. Nobody had a gun to their head 24/7...
Surely there was a time and opportunity to make a move to reach out to authorities, make a phone call, send an E-mail or two, or get somebody in your family to help you. This went on for MONTHS.... Surely there was a number of possible exit ramps one could have taken. Heck, they claim to have had enough time to discuss and implement ways to disrupt what was going on. They had time and opportunity to get out if they wanted too.
You've never imagined having a gun to your kids' head, have you?
life > illegality
No... But this is NOT the movies or TV. Nobody was being held captive, they had their personal cell phones, cars, homes and where freely walking around. Nobody had a gun to their head 24/7...
Surely there was a time and opportunity to make a move to reach out to authorities, make a phone call, send an E-mail or two, or get somebody in your family to help you. This went on for MONTHS.... Surely there was a number of possible exit ramps one could have taken. Heck, they claim to have had enough time to discuss and implement ways to disrupt what was going on. They had time and opportunity to get out if they wanted too.
So is that's 6 with one chambered, or just 7 in your pocket and a quick loader?
Once you realize what you are doing and for who you are doing it, you contact the authorities. These guys continued to cooperate, continued to engage and despite their attempts to soften their story, are responsible for their actions. Intimidation is not an excuse, it's perhaps a reason, but it doesn't absolve you of the moral and ethical obligation to turn yourself in.
My guess is that they are trying to get some sympathy by cooking up this "We tried to resist, without getting killed" defense. At the very least, you use all that IT knowledge and start reaching out to authorities. Heck, walk into a police station and turn your self in, offer to be an informant, explain to them what's going on and tell them you need help getting out. I'm sure any number of customs officials would have jumped at the chance to help them out for the information they obviously had. I'm also sure that any prosecutor would have loved to let them plea bargain (or just plain offered immunity) as well.
No, despite the intimidation they claim, I'm not inclined to believe they where powerless to help themselves, nor am I inclined to think they should be given lighter sentences for what they participated in. The jails are full of people who claim they where wrongly incarcerated. Some claim to be innocent, some claim the sentence was wrong, some claim they couldn't help it, but nearly all of them are just lying. These guys are in the same boat.
Seriously?
So you are going to invent a hypothetical situation here? Well, maybe this armed person is sitting 2 rows back and the shooter is concentrating on the other side of the theater and CAN get a good shot or two off. Or maybe the shooter is directly aiming at the armed good guy and they both fire at the same time? Say there are TWO or more armed folks who can engage the shooter from different directions? The possibilities are endless, but hypothetical. I say we just skip the hypothetical arguments though because they are pointless.
I contend that we need to arm good people. If armed people can just SLOW DOWN the shooter by making him wary about getting shot you will likely have less innocent people dead when the thing is over. The more good guys we have armed and ready, the less damage the lone shooter will manage, so get as many people armed as you can. There are many (like me) who are willing to carry, but cannot because the law prevents me.
Someone in the theater is more likely to disrupt an active shooter WITH a gun than without one. Until the police arrive in 5 to 10 min, it's all you got and it's better than just being a victim. This isn't about keeping bad things from happening, but limiting the damage being done when they happen. Disarming everybody but the bad guys is a sure fire way to enable the crazies to do more damage. Having armed folks doesn't prevent a crazy from trying something, but it sure can disrupt their attempts and limit the harm they can manage, if not outright end the event.
Ok.. Austerity AND violence are coming to Greece. Printing their own currency doesn't help this, at least in the short term. Nobody wants Greek money so they won't sell them anything for it and won't loan them anything else because they don't pay you back.
Feeding people subsistence amounts of food will cost more than Greece can pay.
Further, the ONLY real industry that Greece has that brings in foreign currency (tourism) is about to be totally decimated by riots and violence.
Greece is about to be left in tatters and remanded to third world status, unless they reverse their minds and elect to accept austerity. All this brinkmanship going on is only doing grave damage to Greece.
They wont let the poor starve.
I don't know who you think "they" are but it's not the government of Greece. The government has NO MONEY and has no way to raise any money. It cannot even print money. After the vote this weekend, they will have nearly zero economic activity to tax and have no income. So where they'd surely love to keep paying out on social programs, they simply will not be able to. The poor and retired will stop getting their benefits, many will die for lack of food, medication and basic medical care.
Now if you are talking about humanitarian aid from OUTSIDE Greece, you might be right on that score. But the bulk of this assistance will NOT come from the government of Greece.
We apparently don't differ on the facts, just perspective.
I understand that the Greek people *think* there vote means something else and that they think being forced out of the euro is not possible, but I assure you that they are wrong on both counts.
There is little political will in favor of bailing out Greece, except in Greece. Everybody knows (except the Greeks apparently) that such a bailout without further concessions from Greece will set off a slew of demands from the likes of Italy, Spain and other countries in the euro which in total would be a huge problem for ALL the countries in the euro. Problems big enough to end the euro, the Eurozone and put much of Europe back on the path to a regional conflict similar to what it was before both world wars.
When a debtor says "No, I won't make any more changes to my budgets to satisfy you." to it's creditors, then what happens is the creditors say "Ok, we wont' loan you anymore money" and they force bankruptcy and write off the debt. In the case of Greece, this collapses their economy, crushes their banks, bankrupts the government and effectively isolates the country from the euro. The *ONLY* choice for Greece at that point is to withdraw from the euro, move to their own currency and hunker down to weather the decades long financial storm, violence and upheaval.
So, even if the Greeks believe that they voted for something else, what they said to their creditors was quite clear.
The real question here is how long will the Greek government stay in power and try to hold out for "a better deal". The longer this goes, the longer they refuse to make changes, the more likely this turns into an extremely violent and uncontrollable situation and the more damage will be done to Greece. I have a feeling that as the banks run out of currency and desperation sets in the people of Greece will start to realize what they really voted for isn't what they thought, but by then it will be too late.
Austerity is coming to Greece, Make no mistake... The only question is will it be accepted by the people willingly, or forced onto them though external forces and internal violence.
It's problems with debt pre-date 2008. The S&L crisis just induced a world wide recession that Greece could ill afford because even then it was tittering on the edge. The recession was the thing that pushed them over the cliff. But the seeds of this problem where sown decades ago, even before they entered the Eurozone.
All we've done since then is to delay the problem... Well, we are out of road to kick the can down, and the Greek people just voted themselves over the cliff. This won't be pretty.
Such stupid sarcasm...
Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.
A strong national defense is VITAL to the security of both the USA and the world. The last 200+ years of history show this to be true, and the graves of the dead are reminders of what happens when you forget your history.
The "problem" is the attitude that borrowing has no limits and that voting to keep the government doling out benefits it has no means to pay for is a good idea. The GDP fall and unemployment are unfortunate events, but they where impacted by the same policies that had the government borrowing. The Greek people voted for this (not just once, but many times), in large part, and thus are responsible for what's coming.
However, this is not to discount the fact that being in the Euro has also been a problem, that Greece has paid for the mismanagement of the Eurozone too.
IMHO, Greece (et all) are going to be squeezed between excessive debt and the Eurozone. Had Greece not gone on the Euro, or had they gone to austerity long before their creditors demanded it of them, we would all be talking about something else.
Yes, the middle class will pay with money, but the poor will pay with their lives and suffering. As Greece collapses, those who have nothing and are dependent on the government will pay first. Starvation, violence and sickness will kill them. The middle class will just become poor...
They mistakenly believed that "a better deal" would come because Greece was "too big to fail" as part of the euro.
Personally, I don't think the vote bodes well for the people of Greece. It tells the creditors that the people don't/won't do what's necessary to repay the debts, and I don't think the creditors like that message because they won't get paid back. So the options are either just give Greece money and bail them out, or cut them loose from the euro. I don't think there is a political way that the other euro countries can just give Greece money, so that only leaves an implosion of the economy of Greece and a whole lot of pain and suffering for the least of the Greek people.
So they voted for this "theory" of a better deal, but they will get what they fear most. They will be ejected from the euro, violence and suffering is on the way.
If was living in Greece now, and had marketable skills, I would be leaving too.
I'd call you stupid if you where still in Greece myself....
The writing has been on the wall for Greece for nearly 2 years. It has been obvious that Greece was trying the patience of it's creditors and that eventually they would all get tired of kicking the can down the road. If that wasn't enough for you, the last elected government's platform should have made it clear to everybody who was working in Greece that it was time to get out because the door was slamming shut very soon.
If you are still there now, not only did you stupidly ignore what the world knew was coming, you are going to likely loose a bunch of cash you left in the bank and any real assets you hold are going to be nearly worthless for quite awhile. Also, inflation is going to make any cash left in your hands worth even less.
Good luck leaving Greece now... Where it might be a good idea even still, you won't get out with anything because they won't let you take anything with you.
"A developer working in Greece will pay taxes in Greece"
No he won't. That's why they're in this mess.
He won't, but it's not the flight of labor out of Greece that's the cause of this problem. It's a symptom of the deep rooted issue that has doomed Greece to be crushed between their national debt and the Eurozone.
The MESS is caused by the baby boom and Greece's liberal government funded pensions (we call it Social Security in the USA). The boomers are getting older, consuming more and more resources but having long sense retired produce nothing. That leaves fewer and fewer workers to collect taxes from in Greece, which forced more borrowing, higher taxes and dropping benefits. Of course, being in the Eurozone doesn't help, because if you want to leave Greece, it's easy to jump ship, especially if you are a young person who doesn't own property or have a family. But the problem that doomed Greece was demographics and simple math. You cannot promise to give out such generous benefits where there is no possible way to pay for them.
The really scary part here is that Greece is but the tip of the iceberg, both in the Eurozone and in the world. Spain and Italy are both tittering on the edge and the disruption that is Greece's exit from the euro is likely enough to push them over too. With that many people in abject poverty, I suspect that violence will be nearly unavoidable.
Yes Socialism...
The banks are not the cause of the problem here, but the symptom of the sickness that's killing Greece (and countries in similar situations). Greek banks WILL fail. They don't have stacks of euros to stuff into the ATM's and the people of Greece are desperately trying to empty their accounts because everybody knows that if you leave your cash in the bank, you won't get it out. Everybody wants to be in hard currency, euros. The banks have run out.
Ask yourself, how did Greece get to this point? Basically it's because they failed to make the most recent payment on their national debt. There isn't enough euros in the government coffers to make the payment, they defaulted and now they cannot borrow because nobody wants to lend them anything. Why is the government in Greece at this point? Because they SPENT money they didn't have and cannot raise. Normally countries just print more currency to pay loans, but you cannot do that when it's euros you need to print.
So what did Greece spend all this money on? Early retirement for everybody and social programs. Socialism in leaning, if not actual practice is what has Greece into crushing debt.
Greece is being crushed between the Eurozone and their debt, the debt that funded their social programs. The sad part though is that the people who will really pay for this are the poor, the people who didn't have the ability to move their assets OUT of Greece.
So, lets get this straight... You are for people out in the country being able to print parts for their guns because getting parts might be hard? Um, so if they cannot mail order gun parts, where on earth are they going to get a 3D printer and supplies to run it?
The rest of your post is 100% not original thinking but pabulum rhetoric from the Anti-Gun crowd. Of course gun laws don't stop bad guys from using guns in bad ways, new laws will have the same problem, only the law abiding will follow them, bad people won't care. The problem YOU have is that until you take 100% of the guns off the streets and out of EVERYBODY'S hands there is no way your utopian views will ever eliminate the "bad people" doing "bad things" which happen to be illegal. However, the 2nd amendment prevents you from disarming the citizens in the USA. Guns are here to stay.
What we actually NEED in this situation is to ARM the law abiding. Put guns in the hands of good people. Give them the ability to protect themselves and others from the nut cases hell bent on shooting people for what ever reason. Make it so these crazed "I don't care what the law says I'm going to shoot somebody" shooters don't last long because waiting for the police to get there takes too long, too many people die while the police are responding.
ONE gun in the hands of a ordinary citizen in the movie theater, could have prevented many deaths. Multiple guns would have been even better... Sure, people may still die, but in an active shooter situation, if you can stop the shooter sooner, less people die.
At least we have dicks, Eunuch.
Eunuch - You keep using that word, but I don't think it means what you think it means...