I find both relatively easy, I just have had more problems along with harder to find solutions on linux systems. Windows is made for the dummy user, linux really is not. I do not understand how a person who is proficient at installing/upgrading software on linux has a harder time doing the same thing for Windows.
I think this statement really gets to the heart of why I have problems with Windows. It is geared toward dummies. Even as they work on improving the underlying OS, the interface looks more and more like it is designed for pre-school children. I'm an administrator/developer, and I really hate when an OS tries to hold my hand and tell me what to do. There are quite a few GNU/Linux based distributions that also drive me nuts, and I do what I can to avoid them as well.
I do admit that a Windows box must be restarted more often than linux boxes but the amount of times a reboot is really needed for Windows has been so low in my experience that it does not matter.
Another good point. For many people, Windows needs to be rebooted after almost every little upgrade because Windows tells you that it needs to be rebooted. Things are getting better in that area, but not from the normal user point of view.
While not a "production activity" it does give Windows a big advantage over other OS's for people who do enjoy games. Talking about games I was responding more to when you said "Maybe some day it will mature enough to be useful", this is a very useful feature to a game player, I was just stating that Windows can serve some useful purposes.
This is a part of OS discussion that I prefer not to spend too much time. I'm not a gamer, and feel that playing computer games is a waste of time. If I have enough time to sit and play a game, I have enough time to go outside and see the real world. If I want to pick up a sword and go attack someone, I grab my gear and go find someone to spar with. If I want to walk around a city and talk to random people, I go outside and walk around while talking to people. The best part is that the real world has better graphics and doesn't charge me for sitting on my rear. To me, the game arguement goes along with Windows being designed for dummies with an interface for the pre-school crowd.
I bet if you left an unpatched linux box open to the world it would get owned as well.
I have to disagree with this statement as a general principle. Unless I install some type of daemon that responds to external queries, it would be almost impossible to "own" the system. A clean base install should have nothing more than a console login and all the drivers needed to work with the hardware in the system.
I responded late at night when I was tired and did not sense any sarcasm at all (which is easy to do on the internet).
How strange.. I normally have this problem when I wake up first thing in the morning. I fully understand the issue with typing while tired. I've had to appologize many times for things I've written while half asleep and didn't have the sense to hit cancel.
Oh, sounds a lot like linux (although it has gotten better recently). I am not a fan of how Windows goes about these things either, but I must say that I have had much more frustrating times with dependency and package management problems on linux than on any Windows machine.
Linux is just the kernel. What OS were you using? I've been using Debian for about 6 years now (other various Linux based systems for over 10), and I havn't had the problems that you have had. I even track SID (still in developement) and very rarely do I run into a package upgrade that shuts me down for any significant length of time. If there is a conflict, I am notified before the package is installed.
Linux is also not immune to having stock applications that have security holes and need to be patched right away, Windows is not alone at all in that regard either. After freshly installing either Windows or linux I have to go through the process of applying the needed patches on both.
Every OS is going to need to upgrade programs as problems are found. I find it much easier to upgrade packages on my Debian system than it is on a Windows system. I also find the fixes are released much faster for the open source/free software that comes with most Linux based systems than the proprietary software that comes with Windows. I also don't need to reboot my systems every time there is a small upgrade. The only time the system should need a reboot is when the kernel or possibly modules (device drivers) get upgraded.
If you play games then Windows is very useful since the majority of games are developed for the Windows platform.
I put playing games under the novelty category. Definitly not a production activity.
It also can be made pretty damn secure as long as you lock it down reasonably well, I have not had any problems at all for the last 4 years on my Windows XP Pro boxes at work or home. My work box also is very useful for Windows development, so it is not just a "novelty" and actually is up to being used in a "production environment".
If Windows were so secure, I wouldn't be hearing the same questions from people all the time about how to get rid of viruses and trojans. I always respond with "If you don't like it, then don't run Windows." I'm not saying that Windows can't be made fairly secure. If someone makes a living by developing Windows software, then using a Windows system makes sense. That's the one thing that I don't disagree with anyone.
I don't know what OS you use but you really need to get over your zealotry, you just sound like all of the other zealot sheep who love to rip Windows to pieces even though it does have some useful purposes that they always fail to acknowledge. Windows has its quirks (and quite a few) but so does every other OS that I have used.
Thank you! I think that's the first time I've been called a zealot. My original message was going for a "funny" tag by using sarcasm, but your response was better than anything I could have ever dreamed. I use Debian for my everyday work, but I do have one laptop with Windows XP installed. It's main purpose for existance is QuickBooks for our company. We would normally find another solution, but when dealing with a CPA is almost as difficult as dealing with Windows zealots.
The shocking part is that there are still people using Windows. I've got a laptop sitting around here with Windows on it that I use as a novelty once in a while, but it's not like it can really do anything useful. The package management system is horribly antiquainted, the dependancy checking leaves a lot to be desired, and then there are the security holes in the stock applications that come with the OS. Maybe some day it will mature enough to be useful, but for now it's just a novelty that still isn't up to being used in a production environment.
Honestly.. I've got a couple servers running the VIA Epia boards in order to cut back on electricity requirements, and they seem to be doing just fine. My biggest desktop system is only a 2GHz system with 512M of RAM.
I've had to do this for a friend of mine that died a few years ago. We kept in contact, and sometimes I would help him out with server issues, so luckily I had the root password to his server. After his passing, I took over the job of transfering his domains to my control, informing email contacts of his passing as emails came in, and took over maintenance of the server to keep his memory alive.
If you have family and friends that care, the data will stay alive. If you don't, then it will probably fade away and be forgotten.
I would like to say that GUI package management systems are for weenies. I really like dpkg and apt. I also build a lot of my own deb packages from source. With all the tools that have been created to help in building deb packages, and the wonderful Debian Policy to make sure that everything get's put in the proper places, it would be torture to use anything else.
PS: My other computer runs a nice "roll your own"/Slackware combo.
If you are going to compile and install software yourself, then stick it in/usr/local where it belongs. otherwise grab the latest and greatest from the "unstable" tree if you really need it.
I was really amazed that alien worked so easily for the Yahoo Messenger. Not one error, and the binary even get's tossed in/usr/local/bin. Unlike AOL's rpm that causes all kinds of warnings with alien.
Just be sure to check what you are installing when using alien.:)
Hmmmm I've got a machine here running kernel 2.2.13 that's been up for 76 days now... but I guess I'll probably break down and reboot the system soon. Perhaps I will recompile the kernel, but hold out for an 80 day uptime before rebooting.:)
A GUI POS is only usefull if you are doing touch screen. For most business uses, a GUI is overkill. As soon as I see a good console based accounting package, I'll work on getting my company switched over... Until then the accounting department insists on staying with the DOS based program that has been in use here for a LONG time.
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I find both relatively easy, I just have had more problems along with harder to find solutions on linux systems. Windows is made for the dummy user, linux really is not. I do not understand how a person who is proficient at installing/upgrading software on linux has a harder time doing the same thing for Windows.
I think this statement really gets to the heart of why I have problems with Windows. It is geared toward dummies. Even as they work on improving the underlying OS, the interface looks more and more like it is designed for pre-school children. I'm an administrator/developer, and I really hate when an OS tries to hold my hand and tell me what to do. There are quite a few GNU/Linux based distributions that also drive me nuts, and I do what I can to avoid them as well.
I do admit that a Windows box must be restarted more often than linux boxes but the amount of times a reboot is really needed for Windows has been so low in my experience that it does not matter.
Another good point. For many people, Windows needs to be rebooted after almost every little upgrade because Windows tells you that it needs to be rebooted. Things are getting better in that area, but not from the normal user point of view.
While not a "production activity" it does give Windows a big advantage over other OS's for people who do enjoy games. Talking about games I was responding more to when you said "Maybe some day it will mature enough to be useful", this is a very useful feature to a game player, I was just stating that Windows can serve some useful purposes.
This is a part of OS discussion that I prefer not to spend too much time. I'm not a gamer, and feel that playing computer games is a waste of time. If I have enough time to sit and play a game, I have enough time to go outside and see the real world. If I want to pick up a sword and go attack someone, I grab my gear and go find someone to spar with. If I want to walk around a city and talk to random people, I go outside and walk around while talking to people. The best part is that the real world has better graphics and doesn't charge me for sitting on my rear. To me, the game arguement goes along with Windows being designed for dummies with an interface for the pre-school crowd.
I bet if you left an unpatched linux box open to the world it would get owned as well.
I have to disagree with this statement as a general principle. Unless I install some type of daemon that responds to external queries, it would be almost impossible to "own" the system. A clean base install should have nothing more than a console login and all the drivers needed to work with the hardware in the system.
I responded late at night when I was tired and did not sense any sarcasm at all (which is easy to do on the internet).
How strange.. I normally have this problem when I wake up first thing in the morning. I fully understand the issue with typing while tired. I've had to appologize many times for things I've written while half asleep and didn't have the sense to hit cancel.Oh, sounds a lot like linux (although it has gotten better recently). I am not a fan of how Windows goes about these things either, but I must say that I have had much more frustrating times with dependency and package management problems on linux than on any Windows machine.
Linux is just the kernel. What OS were you using? I've been using Debian for about 6 years now (other various Linux based systems for over 10), and I havn't had the problems that you have had. I even track SID (still in developement) and very rarely do I run into a package upgrade that shuts me down for any significant length of time. If there is a conflict, I am notified before the package is installed.
Linux is also not immune to having stock applications that have security holes and need to be patched right away, Windows is not alone at all in that regard either. After freshly installing either Windows or linux I have to go through the process of applying the needed patches on both.
Every OS is going to need to upgrade programs as problems are found. I find it much easier to upgrade packages on my Debian system than it is on a Windows system. I also find the fixes are released much faster for the open source/free software that comes with most Linux based systems than the proprietary software that comes with Windows. I also don't need to reboot my systems every time there is a small upgrade. The only time the system should need a reboot is when the kernel or possibly modules (device drivers) get upgraded.
If you play games then Windows is very useful since the majority of games are developed for the Windows platform.
I put playing games under the novelty category. Definitly not a production activity.
It also can be made pretty damn secure as long as you lock it down reasonably well, I have not had any problems at all for the last 4 years on my Windows XP Pro boxes at work or home. My work box also is very useful for Windows development, so it is not just a "novelty" and actually is up to being used in a "production environment".
If Windows were so secure, I wouldn't be hearing the same questions from people all the time about how to get rid of viruses and trojans. I always respond with "If you don't like it, then don't run Windows." I'm not saying that Windows can't be made fairly secure. If someone makes a living by developing Windows software, then using a Windows system makes sense. That's the one thing that I don't disagree with anyone.
I don't know what OS you use but you really need to get over your zealotry, you just sound like all of the other zealot sheep who love to rip Windows to pieces even though it does have some useful purposes that they always fail to acknowledge. Windows has its quirks (and quite a few) but so does every other OS that I have used.
Thank you! I think that's the first time I've been called a zealot. My original message was going for a "funny" tag by using sarcasm, but your response was better than anything I could have ever dreamed. I use Debian for my everyday work, but I do have one laptop with Windows XP installed. It's main purpose for existance is QuickBooks for our company. We would normally find another solution, but when dealing with a CPA is almost as difficult as dealing with Windows zealots.
The shocking part is that there are still people using Windows. I've got a laptop sitting around here with Windows on it that I use as a novelty once in a while, but it's not like it can really do anything useful. The package management system is horribly antiquainted, the dependancy checking leaves a lot to be desired, and then there are the security holes in the stock applications that come with the OS. Maybe some day it will mature enough to be useful, but for now it's just a novelty that still isn't up to being used in a production environment.
Archery is a great excercise for strengthening the back, and in turn gets rid of a lot of back pain.
Although I also think it's a great idea to hit the pool after being on the range for a while. =-)
I couldn't stop laughing when I read that headline... I hadn't looked at Page3.com for a long time, but definitly a good place to stop.
Honestly.. I've got a couple servers running the VIA Epia boards in order to cut back on electricity requirements, and they seem to be doing just fine. My biggest desktop system is only a 2GHz system with 512M of RAM.
I've had to do this for a friend of mine that died a few years ago. We kept in contact, and sometimes I would help him out with server issues, so luckily I had the root password to his server. After his passing, I took over the job of transfering his domains to my control, informing email contacts of his passing as emails came in, and took over maintenance of the server to keep his memory alive.
If you have family and friends that care, the data will stay alive. If you don't, then it will probably fade away and be forgotten.
I would like to say that GUI package management systems are for weenies. I really like dpkg and apt. I also build a lot of my own deb packages from source. With all the tools that have been created to help in building deb packages, and the wonderful Debian Policy to make sure that everything get's put in the proper places, it would be torture to use anything else. PS: My other computer runs a nice "roll your own"/Slackware combo.
If you are going to compile and install software yourself, then stick it in /usr/local where it belongs. otherwise grab the latest and greatest from the "unstable" tree if you really need it.
Just be sure to check what you are installing when using alien. :)
That was the first thing I did... before /. even posted the story. :)
As one of the many Debian users out here, I'm wondering where the deb's are at? At least alien was able to change it to a deb easy enough.
Hmmmm I've got a machine here running kernel 2.2.13 that's been up for 76 days now... but I guess I'll probably break down and reboot the system soon. Perhaps I will recompile the kernel, but hold out for an 80 day uptime before rebooting. :)
A GUI POS is only usefull if you are doing touch screen. For most business uses, a GUI is overkill. As soon as I see a good console based accounting package, I'll work on getting my company switched over... Until then the accounting department insists on staying with the DOS based program that has been in use here for a LONG time.