Slashdot Mirror
Do Ergonomic Chairs Really Work?
cliffski wonders: "I've gone from a job as a commuting programmer working on his own code as a hobby, to a full time work-from-home one-man business. As I spend a good hour or two a day gaming as well as a full day's coding, I'm now sitting at the same desk for an awfully long time. Should I invest in one of those trendy ergonomic chairs that force you to sit with a straight back posture? Has anyone used one for a length of time, and does it really help prevent back pain? I've taken up archery, probably the best sport to encourage you to adopt good posture; are there any other tips Slashdot readers have for avoiding 'programmer slouch'?"
Exercise will make your back pain go away. It'll also help your wrists.
But if you're going to be sitting in a chair 12 hours a day, an Aeron is very comfortable, and you can set it to 'no-slouch' mode.
I tried one a few years back when I was a ripe old 22. After an hour or so my knee joints started to ache. It may get better over time, but I won't use them.
As a developer and computer junkie, I have to say the best type of chair is a plain normal office chair, it forces me to not become comfortable enough to slob about.
The biggest problem is sitting in the same place all day, it does your back, arms, eyes and neck no good.
I find my best work comes whilst I am away from my desk, having a smoke, laying on my bed, pacing around, playing with the kids or just watchin tv.
Get your eyes away from your screen and think about the code you are about to write.
Take a pad and pencil and make sparse notes, formulate solutions then do your code in short bursts when you return so you don't strain yourself.
I would also recommend swimming over archery since archery seems more like a strength persuit rather than excersize.
liqbase
I've had a Herman Miller Aeron at work for 4+ years. I really like it, how the meshy material breathes when I've been sitting in it for far too long, and boy it sure looks cool. But I'm not sure that it's made much of a difference in my posture. I've adjusted all the controls, even watched the "Proper Posture" video they have on their website, but I still do horrible things like sit cross-legged in it, slouch, etc. I think it comes down to your willingness to commit to a proper egonomic regimen. I'm lazy in that way.
Those things (I believe Balans invented them) were trendy back in 1990-something, but never really caught on. I assume there's a reason for that, although the reason could be that they don't work or just that you look like a dork sitting that way.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
It would be better for you to get up once an hour or so and take a stroll; smell the flowers.
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
Parent's right. These "ergonomic" chairs suck. It's much better to buy a standard office chair - the ones which can rotate and have small wheels at the bottom. I use one and I've had no problems with ergonomics. If I get bored, I can move the chair a little and/or adjust the height.
... if you're the average male--not too tall, short, fat, thin, etc.; and you always sit in them exactly as they designed you to sit in them--no slouching, sitting sideways, on the "edge of your seat", with your feet up, etc....
My advice? Go to one of those office supply places and sit in every chair. Buy the one you feel is most comfortable, and learn how to make all the possible adjustments. Next, get off your ass every now and then--stretch your legs, go have a conversation (with yourself) at the water cooler (kitchen sink), etc....
I have a Steelcase Leap. It's pretty much your classic office chair, except it has good lumbar support, and is designed to allow you to move around and adopt slightly different postures.
I found that with many ergonomic chairs, it didn't matter how perfect the back shape was--sitting in any kind of fixed position for long enough would give me back ache. With the Leap, the back is designed to flex.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
I have one and use it some, but if I have to take one chair, it will be a regular one. If two, it would be the regular chair and a large exercise ball like this one. (Their sizing chart is for excersizing rather than sitting, so I recommend getting one size up if you'll use it as a chair.) The on-your-knees-slave chair is nice to have for variety's sake, though.
Long form: I've used about five or six different brands/models of that type of posture chair and ALL of them hurt my knees and shins and fuck up my back, although they seem to be good for my shoulders. I'm not willing to trade my knees, shins, and back for my shoulders, which are the only part of my body that hurts after sitting in normal chairs.
On a more personal, TMI-kind of note, I end up crushing the boys when trying to sit in them while wearing pants. Maybe my balls just hang low (swing to and fro, tie them in a knot etc) but I don't consider a chair that I can only sit in while pantsless to be very useful.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I've had one for a couple of years and I find it more comfortable than the Aeron chair I also own. That said, while it's relieved my back pain, it may have encouraged other posture issues. My right shoulder is sitting a little forward from using the mouse and I hadn't noticed it until it got severe since there was nothing at my back for reference.
A>
The whole purpose of ergonomic chairs is to remove the fat wad of cash from your wallet, and make you spend lots of money so you can lose weight due to your nervousness at being able to afford them in the first place.
I get mine at the university surplus for $5 or $10 each, instead of the $1000 the original buyer paid. I think our office was equipped for about $100 all told.
That said, I find if you don't get up and stretch about once every hour or so, you'll probably end up with back problems. And if you'd just take the stairs instead of sit all day, you'd have far fewer problems in the first place, since humans are designed to walk about 30 to 45 minutes a day.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I tried a kneeler, and found it hard on my knees and knee joints. Even tried it with a pillow on the lower part... Now it's a rolling junk holder.
Might work better for skinny people; I wouldn't know.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
This is the theory behind those programs to remind you to take short breaks every hour. It's also a good excuse to ask your employer for a laptop computer so you can amble over to the couch, the coffeeshop, the park, or wherever you feel like working. Stay moving, stay alive.
It sounds plausible, and I've heard the same thing from at least two other chiropractors I've met. (I've never developed a cubicle injury, at least not yet--I was seeing a chiropractor for physical therapy, long story.)
And now, a PSA from David Lynch.
Others have said it, I'll say it again...
It's much easier and cheaper to just get up and move around than it is to get a really expensive chair. I assume you have a laptop, so move around with it. Sit at the desk for a while, sit on the couch, sit on a bed, go outside and sit on the front steps (if it's not raining), etc.... Your day will be less monotonous if you're not staring at the same desk and wall the whole time, too.
ttuttle is a rankmaniac
Cue the anecdotes!
I have no idea if good chairs help generate good posture (I've never gotten an employer to buy me one)... but I do know that a bad chair certainly aids poor posture.
If you can get someone to buy one for you, do it and let us know how it goes. If nothing else, you'll have lots of levers and knobs to adjust on the chair.
Try 1985. Those things are at least two decades out from being "trendy".
Long Answer: It's impossible to sit on an ergonomic chair. Can't be done.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
Yes, a good chair is a big help. I've been programming for longer than I care to admit and started having back trouble many years ago. I've tried all sorts of chairs (kneely rockers, straight-backed dinning room chairs, an office chair that the salesman claimed was used by air traffic controllers - that one was pretty good, actually). My feeling after all this experience is that a good chair makes a huge difference. It's also important to get up frequently and move around. Walking and stretching exercises are also helpful.
Having said all that. NOTHING is worth real back trouble. If you start to have real problems find some other work. I speak from experience.
having a broken back, i can say that yes they do help to aleviate some of the stress that is associated with poor posture, but a tool can only do so much without the effort behind it. I find that if you dont want to spend the money on a chair like that you can buy one with a solid or tall back and augment that with the pillow of your choice and it works just as well (if not better in some cases.) Also, as has been suggested, get up from time to time, walk, move about... poor posture is also furthered by muscle inactivity.
Can you sit on it? Then yes.
try Ballmer
I don't feel like it...
Those types of ergonomic chairs are great for proper back posture. Or spines aren't shaped quite right for the types of chairs we typically sit on. The hips need to be rolled forward a bit. This is why that type of chair has the need pads, to get the hips to rotate forward to put the arch in the spine.
But what is your problem? Maybe you have a tough spine but you're hunching forward and rolling your shoulders forward? This is also bad posture and can lead to other problems.
As other people have noted, you cant' sit in the same position all day long. Heck.. if you did find the perfect chair and sat in the same position that long, wouldn't you be prone to the same clot problem they are starting to acknowledge happens on long airline flights?
I have no advice or product recommendation other than this.. what problem are you having that you want to resolve? Maybe you should get a combination of chairs and swap them around through the day?
Slashdot.. where people join together in deliberate ignorance.
I used to think back pain is something others get, inspite of getting a minor problem long time back(school). About a few year ago, I think it was 2002, I suffered a really bad fall. Due to that I started getting sever back pain. At that time I understood what exactly is lumbar support, and in my quest for the perfect seating postures as well as a comfortable driving position I found out the following things
1. Good posture seat is a misnomer. When a guy tells you, this 500$ chair is made to cure back pain, he is talking out of the other hole. You see we all come in different shapes and sizes. A chair which is good for a 5 foot 5 inch guy is not going to be good enough for a 6 foot guy. Same is true for car seats also. Some cars which I find extermely comfortable and relaxing for my back, simple dont work for others and vice a versa. So when you go shopping. Sit on a chair for an hour or so. 5 min wont tell you anything. And dont take this lightly, back pain is a ghost which can become impossible to exorcise.
2. Excercise. Yes everybody tells you so, and its the best advice. Actually walking long distances with back straight is a great excersise. So is cycling on a stationary cycle or one with good suspension and decent roads
Keep these two things in mind and your spine will last you long, very very long
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i must say that if it were not for my ergonimic chair, i would be a debilitated programmer. probably making my living building brick walls, as the lifting & carrying of bricks and mortar are far more ergonimic activities in my experience.
BUT - the chair MUST FIT YOUR OWN BACK, not some average ideal back. you must try them all out before you buy one. if you get one that doesn't do it for your unique body, then it's not really an ergonomic chair.
also find out what's important for you. for me, i must have the seat tilt forward a bit, about 1 to 2 cm., while the back remains straight up. this eliminates the Herman Miller Aeron chair, which tilts both forward at once. USELESS!!
In other words, a healthy nicotine addiction can help you avoid RSI. :-)
Seriously. Even if you don't get up to puff, just moving your limbs around once in a while is enough to prevent most RSI injury. My chiropractor told me the same thing ten years ago, though he pointed out there are probably better ways to keep yourself from sitting immobile all day.
No, I didn't bother asking any oncologists about my chiropractor's advice. And I probably wouldn't bring it up in a cancer ward. But perhaps NORML could help spread the word.
And now, a PSA from David Lynch.
I did a quick search on the net for info to point you to, but I ended up finding an article recommending against it. I would still try it to see what you think, because I think the article is exaggerating the whole "instability" angle. They also have ads for what look like super expensive ergonomic chairs, so I wonder if there's any connection there. Anyway, it appears that that website also has an ergonomics forum, so you may want to ask the same question there.
Here's a response I wrote to a related article on ergonomic keyboards. The parent is correct, exercise is the best known intervention.
I don't know.
You must ask the Chairman Ballmer!
Get some private Pilates lessons. (If you need to find an instructor, there are good resources at The Pilates Method Alliance.)
It helped my back pain when nothing else did, post a car accident.
Pilates Studios are also usually 10-1 female, and they're often young attractive dancer types, so it's fun for that reason as well.
Get an ergonomic chair. Get a knee chair if that's your type. Don't get an american knee chair though. Get one of these: http://www.designsforcomfort.com/ The Stokke Duo and the Stokke Wing are both very good. I tried them myself. The Duo has a Boss Chair option that lets you lean back for a change once in a while. Stokke == high end scandinavian quality. Not cheap, but worth it imho.
Yet the best ergonomic chair I know of is a german stool which I actually would get for myself. In my experience the Swopper is the best Back-friendly ergonomic sitting device available. However it costs 600$. You'll have the ultimate Mercedes Benz of polstered stools though. I've heard that they are impossible to break. After sitting on one for a length of time I have to say this one is among the best when doing deskwork.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Every body needs a little different support to account for height, weight distribution and posture. Those trendy chairs can indeed help significantly if you get the right one ( the Aeron comes in three sizes, and if you get the wrong size it will be worse than nothing ), I know people who hate the Aeron, I know people who love it - the key is to get a good chair that you have tried and know you can work comfortably in. Someone I work with had excruciating back pain after a week in a chair, that went away after two days in a new chair ( not an Aeron BTW, I am not plugging their product)
I have nothing to hide. So, why are you spying on me?
Ultra-comfortable, ultra-ergonomic, designed for sitting in one position for many hours, extremely durable, high quality and... ultra-cheap!
Visit a car scrapyard and buy the best car seat you can find. Right now typing this from a luxury model BMW driver's seat. Cost: $17. If this one dies (not likely!), I'm gonna get another. Never more overpaying for computer desk chairs in furniture shops!
Minus: Not rotating. Plus/minus - heavy, not really movable (but can be easily adjusted forward/back, sliding on rails). And requires some (little) work to make a good basis/attachment.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
I worked in an Aeron chair 8-10 hours a day for 8 years. No back pain. I changed jobs and now have a generic office chair. Back pain. Draw your own conclusions.
there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
Those chairs are great. I sat in a Herman Miller Aeron for about 3 years, and it really kept me from hurting compared to the older chairs I sat in. I picked up an old (1975) Herman Miller Ergon for home, and it's nearly as comfortable. The cool thing about the HM stuff, is there is a lifetime warranty on it. I had a wheel stop working, and then sent out a truck and fixed it for free, and that chair is 30 years old.
But, do you know your back pain is coming from your chair? It certainly might have something to do with it, however, I read an article that said 60% of americans are chronically dehydrated and that can cause back pain. I thought about it, and I really didn't drink that much water. I started carrying a water bottle with me everywhere, and my back rarely hurts anymore.
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Steve Balmer says yes.
When I first started working from home, I had a generic office chair. After a couple of weeks, I couldn't stand to stay in it for more than a half-hour or so. So I went to the local "ergonomic chair" dealer and got their top-of-the-line chair for waaaay much money. Took it back within a week, because it kind of locked me in one position and wouldn't let me shift around much. Then I got an Aeron chair (cheap at the height of the dot-bomb meltdown), and it's been great. I'd get another if anything happened to mine, and they're not terribly expensive anymore (I think they were >$1000 around 2000, they're like $600 now).
Just junk food for thought...
I bought it about 1 1/2 years ago now. Personally it is the best computer/desk chair I have ever had. It is extremely comfortable and the use of the fabric stuff makes it breath very well. Depending on which model you get you can have different types of back/lumbar support. I picked up a fully adjustable model with lumbar support, a leather arms (I didn't pay for the crome model though, look great but was not worth it since it was in my upstairs bedroom). You still need to set it up properly for good back/ergonomic support and use it that way. But I really just set it up for comfort :)
We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
The chair I've lusted for over the past decade-plus is one like the Relax-the-Back "Perfect Chair" (http://www.livingincomfort.com/ec11130.html for instance), but they start at over $1000 dollars. Cheap compared to doctor bills, I guess, but $1000 for a chair is unlikely for my near-future budget :)
:) As Bill Shatner might once have said, in a strained and melodramatic voice, "Must! ... have! ... a! ... dream!"
However, a few days ago I picked up from the local Dick's Sporting Goods a similarly reclining chair (mesh, not leather) which folds, weighs probably about 15 pounds, and only cost $60. Since I've had it only a few days, I can't make long-term evaluations yet, but it's comfortable for laptop-typing, and sure beats my usual awful posture in an office chair. For instance, I'm sitting at the moment in a fairly comfy chair from Office Depot (one of the leather "manager's chairs" they have on recurring sales for 80 or 100 bucks), but frankly it's only fairly comfy in comparison to most other chairs I've tried. Aerons are nice, but not all they're cracked up to be. Some Aeron competitors stop at looking vaguely similar (and aren't comfortable), and I suspect some surpass the real Aeron in comfort, but I haven't hit any yet. My position is like this:
- left leg, extended forward onto a metal shelf (resting on a jerry-rigged shelf-pad made of a folded grey fleece sleeping bag)
- right leg folded and tucked under the left one
- back in only moderate agony
I'm not on the newer reclining one only because I'm lazy and in the room where it is not.
I've tried the kneeling chairs, and didn't much like them; the forward creep (and the battle with pants slippage!) made the novelty wear off; they're strictly OK rather than awesome. What I really want is a space couch from the shuttle, and LCD on the ceiling, and a working, intuitive voice-recognition system that's available as a deb and under an OSI-approved license
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
After a motor-vehicle collision in the fall left me with persistent back pain/tightness, I ditched my computer chair and replaced it with an exercise ball (Thera-Ball) like you described. The ball makes a better chair than any chair I've used - it cured the pain, increased the strength and, thanks to a very gentle slope in the floor, always rolls itself under the desk when I'm done.
I worked at an Internet startup that spent almost zero on office furniture. Our desks were doors mounted on top of filing cabinets. But everyone got Aeron chairs -- and they had a selection of chair sizes to suit everyone.
I have to say that the Aeron made it possible to work long hours -- even with 14 hour days, I felt fine. That wasn't the case with other office chairs, before or since. While it was popular to scoff at the Aeron chairs during the dot-com-crash days, I actually think those chairs were actually sensible spending by the companies.
Cheap sub-$100 chairs are crap. If you're going to buy ONE chair for yourself, you're better off going to a good retail dealer and have them educate you on the product, and choose/adjust the seat that fit you. And, if they're a true high-quality retailer, they should be willing to take the seat back even after you've taken it home for a couple weeks. If you're going to spend money on making yourself productive, be generous to yourself.
I occasionally have back problems. Sitting in my $129 generic office chair from Office Depot I couldn't sit for more than 10 minutes without having to get up (painfully), take a break and lie down. Go to work and sit in my $600 Aeron and I can go a full day (with intermittent walking breaks) without significant discomfort. AERON ROCKS! I had a kneeling chair when I was 18, it worked fine, never had any complaints.
...really, that is a great idea, I am going to look into it. Currently I have a too-large chair that I got just because it would crank up high enough to use on my home made desk like experience-but it's built for serious large 'boss class' humans. It's just too big. Maybe I can adapt a normal car seat to the frame of this thing.
The other thing I was thinking of is an old barber chair! Those things are really comfy, too, and are really adjustable.
A few years ago I worked for a company that had to watch every penny. So of course they didn't want to buy me any kind of fancy chair. In fact, despite paying me big bucks, they gave me a chair that even the telemarketing staff had rejected. The back cushion was detached from its cardboard backing and flopped all over the place.
Well, after a year or so of that, I got severe pain in my hands from the poor typing position that ensued from such a crummy chair. I went to a doctor and he prescribed a truly bizarre wrist splint and an ergonomic chair.
My panicked boss, fearing potential lawsuits in the air, bought me an Aeron and a wrist rest for my keyboard. I tried the wrist splint but it was so weird feeling to use that I didn't use it more than a day or so.
Haven't had any wrist problems since, so having an Aeron or a similarly adjustable chair definitely helps a lot. I had bought an Aeron for home use before getting the one at my work. I now work at home so I'm either using the Aeron or relaxing outdoors with lawn chairs. For some reason relaxing outdoors, even with non-optimal chairs, seems to work wonders for my attitude. Curious but true.
I don't know about the kneeling chair. I tried one once but found it so uncomfortable and strange it wasn't of interest.
Hope that helps.
D
Developing good posture will alleviate your need for an ergonomic chair like this. In my experience, these chairs tend to be uncomfortable after an hour or two. Take frequent breaks and exercise, in addition to developing good posture, and you'll not find yourself quite so uncomfortable.
That said, zafu and zabuton (cushions traditionally used in meditation and for sitting in general) are very good for helping to develop good posture; the loft and angle of the cushions forces the spine into alignment, which relieves pressure. There's nothing to support your back for you, so you'll eventually be able to sit with better posture without relying on the back of a chair to do it for you.
I promise you this. You can't go to a chair store and try each one out. You don't know if you like a chair until you've spent a week sitting on it all day long.
To answer the question: "Do Ergonomic Chairs Really Work?" - hmmmm, yes, but only as one component of a broader approach to your ergonomic situation. They are not a fix-all.
I have recently become more aware of 'gradual onset' RSI in my right forearm, regardless of the fact that I've been using ergonomic keyboards for over a decade (which of course points to a bad mouse - 5 mins of normal mousing = sharp pains, 3m ergonomic mouse = 8 hours straight no problems.) Now that I am taking regular breaks, getting away from my workstation and stretching regularly, my RSI is under control and only peaks when I ignore my RSI software to do silly things like write long winded diatribes on /.
But I digress, this isnt about my RSI, it's about you. But first back to me. As part of abiding by legislation and contractural politics here in NZ, I obeyed by the demands of a health and safety wench who submitted me to a battery of observations and tests, which included a visit from an occupational health and safety nurse, who apart from being attractive and friendly, was intelligent and informative. Curse the linux in my veins I wasnt able to snare her :(
Anyway, she ignored my "Got Root?" t-shirt and taught me how to get the most out of the gear you've got, and you'd be surprised what some simple adjustments can do to make the mundane office chair into something much better ergonomically.
For the record - at work we have standard Damba office chairs, not cheap but not expensive, and my personal adjustments were to adjust the back as forward as comfortably possible - forcing me to sit in a supported upright position, which nulls the urge to slouch - and because our desks are set too high, I have the chair set as high as possible and complimented with a foot stool. You're aiming for right angles at the knees and elbows with "floating wrists"
Though because everyone's made differently by their deity of choice, you cannot do well with advice that is given on /. or in any written form. The best way is to be shown, so get a specialist to visit you - it's worth the money, and even better if your employer pays for it! (why? It's knowledge you keep, provided you pay attention and ask the right questions)
Again for the record, my chair at home - I havent tried an Aeron, though I really want to, but I have tried these:= 163
http://www.formway.co.nz/life/life.html (warning - Flash!)
http://buro.co.nz/wa.asp?idWebPage=4361&idDetails
The Formway Life is an ergonomicists orgy piece. Myself and some colleagues visited a client site and they were fortunate enough to be kitted out with these and custom made Formway electro-mechanically adjustable desks. I sat in one of these and immediately demanded to my colleagues to leave, sending only money and food. These are highly customisable, but at NZD$800 up to NZD$1700 depending on how you configure it, it's a little out of my price bracket.
The Buro generally retails for NZD$500, and while not as comfortable as the Life, it is still highly adjustable and extremely comfortable while still having excellent ergonomical support. Fortunately, a bulk warehouse stationary chain, named Warehouse Stationary, relabels Buro gear as Avant and sells them cheaper.
Kinda like Lexus/Toyota (flawed analogy, I know.) Warehouse Stationary sells my particular model normally for NZD$350, and I got mine on sale for NZD$250. In NZ, that's still a lot for a chair - but hey, half price and is it worth it? My personal health says yes.
And on that note, my final piece of advice. If you're sitting in chairs that long, you might want to consider one of these additions ;)
Rather than looking for something that simply holds the body in a better position,
why not get something that encourages the body to DO SOMETHING positive, even while
working, eg, at a computer terminal...
A chair that lets one place the feet on some bicycle pedals (or the like),
coupled to an auto alternator... enabling the user to generate electricity
while the mind & hands are doing other work.
Such chairs may exist [eg, one costing over Au $10,000, last time we checked]
has the peddles... apparently combining office chair with adjustable friction
resistance... standard on lots of "Exercise Bikes"... but WASTES the ENERGY!
We say, it'd be great to store the electrical energy from such a chair,
while the rotary motion of the feet on peddles helps improve the user's
leg [and other?] circulation & general health.
What'cha think?
PS If anyone knows of existing chairs, please post some URL links to them.
TIA
No. There is no chair in the world that will undo the damage you do to your body by sitting in front of a computer 12-14 hours a day. Lack of movement hurts your body. Archery is cool, but it's not exercise. Exercise is excellent, but the best kinds of exercise you can do as a computer geek are the energy building kind (yoga, tai qi, etc) instead of the energy spending kind (running, swimming, etc). Buy a soft chair with arm rests and try to be aware of your body. Keep your shoulder muscles as relaxed as you can. Get a http://www.kinesis.com/ Kinesis Keyboard. Get a soft chair... and once you have that soft chair, stop sitting in it so much and go outside. It's nice out there.
from 3 start-ups is that different people approach tasks differently. The truly resourceful hack-saw the legs off desks to lower their desktops where they want them for use with their fav chair. The "fav chair" runs the gamut from HermanMiller to Euro* imports. The HM dudes advocate staying power on-task, the Euro* crowd likes six levers and a chair with 6 degrees of freedom to change their posture throughout the day. The H1B fellas prefer headrests the farther north on the continent they come.
Out of box thinkers bring stools and raise their work surfaces to keep from squashing their brains, sitting on them (personal opinion) but they make the point about thinking on their feet. The "luv sacs" are not an option. Lastly, there are the hackers who prefer door-turned into worksurface, blocks and 2x8 shelving and Aerion's.
Why do you want to sit down? Yeah, I get tired, too. The way my "home station" is set up, I can stand, or lean a little bit on a high chair, see the screen, type, mouse, no prob. I figure, after a long session, if I'm too tired to stand and compute, well, maybe I'm too tired to compute. Lose all the chairs, stand around, type, and keep moving. Chair shmair.
Yoga (best start with Hatha Yoga). Tai Chi (Wundang Form) totally fixed miscellaneous aches and pains in body. Decent diet obviously helps too.
There's been quite a lot of good advice posted here, as well (of course) as some crap. Allow me to sum up the good bits, keeping in mind that my wife has professional training in ergonomics, and I'm a SA who often spends ten hours a day in front of a computer out of necessity.
1) Every person is different. Therefore every solution will be different. This cannot be emphasised strongly enough! What works for some people won't work for others. A perfect chair that doesn't fit you won't help; a perfect chair that exacerbates your particular problems or weaknesses won't help. Find a solution that addresses your problems, not someone else's.
2) Spending 14 hours per day in front of a computer isn't a problem that can be solved with a chair. The chair might get rid of the back pain, but this just isn't healthy or good for you, from a physical OR 'lifestyle' point of view.
3) An essential part of avoiding back problems is exercise and good general health. Taken on its own, exercise won't save you from a bad chair. However; taken on its own, a great chair won't save you from being unable to move properly.
4) Today's solution isn't necessarily tomorrow's solution. Don't forget that you change as well. Archery is going to affect your posture and muscle tone, which will in turn change your requirements for a chair. Don't fall into the trap of believing, "I set this chair up two years ago and it was perfect, so now it must be something wrong with me."
Find something that works for you--do the research, borrow chairs from friends and coworkers, adjust things as necessary, and hopefully you can find a solution that will let you remain comfortable for ten hours of work a day or more. Then only use it for eight hours a day, and do something entirely different for the rest of your time.
Finally, a note on chair pricing. For the people who talk about how expensive these things are and how they'd love a good chair but can't afford it, I have to ask: How much money do you spend on computer gear that's obsolete in three years? If you work in IT, this is as much of an investment as a good monitor or a new computer, and will last longer than either one.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
True: "Exercise will make your back pain go away."
Specifically, strengthening your stomach muscles by doing sit-ups or crunches helps your back muscles relax. Often where you feel the pain is not the position of the actual problem.
You know that your culture has become what Douglas Adams would, or Terry Pratchett will, have considered fodder when you chair comes supplied with a manual.
mark
A standard "old" drafting table has stood the test of time with a drafting chair with the various adjustments.
It allows sit on the chair mode, one leg on the floor or two, or stand up, and thus gives a lot of different positions to use during a day.
As others have noted, I found I needed to specifically keep my excersize up and chose both moderate speed walking and rowing to keep everything else greased up. Just don't overdo the rowing effort, as you can easily put too much load on your back, without realizing it is your weakest point.
Preventing back pain is about positioning your monitor at the correct height with your eyes. It's about placing you arms at the correct angle to your body and supporting them. It's about keyboard positioning and angle. It's about the location of your mouse. It's about the location of your legs and feet. The chair brings this all together.
Also check out your bed. Is your mattress comfortable? Do you wake up feeling decent or does your back hurt? You may need a new mattress. Go to a mattress store and try a few different models out. That may help as well. My chiropractor once told me something that he learned in school. A survey was conducted of the mattresses in a number of American households. The results showed that something like 90% of them were worn out and the owners didn't realize it. Mattresses don't last forever.
That said exercise certainly helps too.
I've had a Stokke Variable Balans since 2001 and I'll never go back to an ordinary office chair. With the Stokke it's nigh impossible to sit in a wrong (i.e. hunched) way.
The Variable Balans (like most Stokkes) has the same principle as the crappy kneeling chairs, but the base is 'rocking'. It lets your body find its own balance, instead of a one-size-fits-all preset. This also goes with Stokke's philosophy that the human body is built for moving around, rather than for sitting completely still with 90 degree angles. Most Stokke chairs provide several distinct sitting postures to facilitate this idea further.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
As supported by my orthpaedist, and physical therapist, and the eight years I've been using it for my back, I highly recommend an exercise ball. Even my giant corporation, always afraid of OSHA, is ok with me having an exercise ball. Get the right size for your height (I use a 55cm one), and keep it properly inflated (I adjust it maybe twice a year), and it's great.
The main reason it's superior to other chairs - since there is no back, you cannot lean against the back and essentially stop moving (using your muscles to support yourself) for any length of time. Once you've stopped using your muscles to support yourself for about 20 minutes, they become extra inactive. Being required to maintain your balance to sit on an exercise ball (swedish ball, gym ball, whatever you want to call it) not only builds core strength, but keeps your abdominal and back muscles active.
Yes, this means that you may find it tiring for the first few weeks, but you get used to it quite easily.
It's the only thing I can sit on for any length of time that won't aggrivate my sacrum or tailbone, and my workplace's ergonomics people had me try a bunch of different ergonomic chairs.
Posting anon because I'm not especially proud of things, but I was an NCAA Div I football player (GO BUCKS!) who destroyed his body much too early in life. With no NFL scouts calling, I got into network design after college - which I now enjoy, but without the daily workout program and with an Italian wife who loves to cook, my 220 pounds of muscle turned into 250 pounds of fat surprisingly fast.
So yes, I know, get up and move about more often - but who makes a good office-suitable chair for a fat guy who's pretty well banged up his knees and back?
I have used these chairs now 6-7 years and it is only chair model what will keep all back pains away..... http://www.salli.com/
1. I did some work at a government office for 2 weeks this year and use Haworth
k ey=18&category=111
Improv H.E. chairs. Simply the most comfortable chairs I have ever sat in and I work
about 9-10 hours/day in front of the computer for the last 10 years. Very expensive but
very comfortable too.
http://www.haworth.com/Brix?pageID=169&product_sa
2. I would echo the comments of others about exercise. Exercise is good for you even if you
don't have back pain. You need to consult a physican first before beginning any exercise
program and should consult one anyway about your back pain. Just don't over do it and
try to kill yourself. If it is lower back pain, I would recommend crunches and total
body stretching in addition to the walking/cardio already mentioned.
If only the chair had internal cable management, the power and network cable keep getting pinched by the recliner mechanism.
Every mans' island needs an ocean; choose your ocean carefully.
I love my Aeron chair. They're expensive, but you can usually get good deals on ebay and other online places. They really are worth the money.
Think about it, you spend hours every day sitting in a chair, might as well make it a pimped out one. It's comfy and it breaths, and because it's a mesh instead of cloth, it doesn't "remember your farts" or stain like cloth chairs.
1. I tried a kneeling chair, but it really kills the skin on my knees after a while. The fabric on the kneepad, as well as whatever you're wearing on your legs, will start to impress on your knees. Also, your pant legs will probably crease.
2. I suspect that desk height is the major problem, and an adjustable chair may not help. If you desk is the wrong height, you may be able to adjust your chair so your arms are in the right position, but your legs won't be.
3. Along with desk height, desk thickness is a problem. The ideal ergonomic desk would probably be a zero-thickness geometric plane (that can be adjusted to different heights). The worst are desks with wide frames or supports under the desktop, or drawers, which effectively increase the thickness of the desktop by several inches. (Hotel rooms are especially bad about having desks like this - traditional desks made for writing by hand.)
4. Aeron chairs are okay, but not great. For one thing, they don't all have the complete range of adjustments. A hotel chain advertises that it has Aerons in the rooms, but I found that the chair had only the height adjustment. On the other hand, the mesh is really great, especially if, well, your rear end tends to sweat when the room gets too warm...
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
Why yes, the chairs in the pictures do indeed encourage you to sit up. I found they worked wonders for my posture, my back, and my neck. It's just really too bad that long days spent in them will fuck up your knees. Seriously, I'm going on 20 years doing this, and my suggestion would be to check out the Zackback and BackSaver.
For almost five years, I've been using a Fitness Ball as my office chair. With this and the help of my chiro., I've gone from being almost unable to get out of bed to a normal lifestyle again.
The main benefits are that you are continually moving and flexing your abdominal muscles which helps maintain the lower back alignment. The other benefit for those who change locations regularly like myself (a contractor) is that it simply deflates and goes into your backpack at the end of one job and can be quickly restored at the next.
The diameter is all important. When sitting on the ball with the feet flat on the ground, the angle of the thighs should be about ten degree downwards. The first week or so you will need to add pressure daily as the ball stretches to a static level. I'm 183cm (6'0") and use a 75cm diameter.
Finally, to avoid getting a dirty seat to your pants, start by placing the inflated ball in the middle of a flat and unobstructed area and allow it to roll until it finds its natural orientation (they all have a heavy spot). Make a note of the orientation and always place it in that position before sitting to avoid getting all the muck it picks up all over your backside (I learnt that one the hard way).
Oh... and expect to find it in all sorts of daft places for the first week or so when you return to your desk, plus the odd smiley face drawn on the back!
Go permanent? In your dreams and my worst nightmares.
I am in the same boat as you. I work from home developing and maintaining a website for a medium-sized company. Running a website means you work from the moment you wake to the time you go to bed. I also play PC games when not working.
:-)
I have an Aeron chair and can safely say I never feel uncomfortable. As others have said, I also exercise and maintain a decent weight (ok, so I could lose 20lbs.).
In comparison, when I visit the home office and sit in "generic" chairs in conference rooms, I get uncomfortable after a few hours.
Another bonus of the Aeron chair is that it doesn't trap any air that you might pass.
"No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
I have tried various chairs, and I have found that using a properly sized exercise ball is the best at keeping you straight and back-pain free. Since you're the one having to sit up (no back) you end up using your abdominal muscles (as well as your back muscles) a bit through out the day (I believe they call it your "core"). And the best part: You can bounce around! I'm not kidding! It's fun at work!
I highly recommend ADD as a solution for sitting still for too long.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
For a chair to be ergonomic it just means its adjustable for the height and back support. Get it to the right heights and you will be better off. It doesn't have to cost much more than a fixed chair.
My boss at a former job used an exercise ball (70 cm or so) instead of a chair. He was a fitness nut and claimed that the act of balancing yourself on the ball helped tone a multitude of muscles in your torso. My wife, who had been having a lot of back pain, decided to try it out. Within 2 weeks, her back pain was gone. She has been using the ball for a few months now and loves it so much that she gave away her office chair. I've tried it and its very comfortable, plus keeping yourself balanced tends to leave you moving around slightly so that you don't stay locked in one position. I can't speak for how it might help a programmer, but it certainly helped her. (She's a geologist.) And it is a much cheaper alternative to an ergonomic chair.
Hell is other people's code.
I have ordered one of these, currently waiting for it. I heard/read surgeons and dentists use them.
http://www.salli.com/
Those oversized balloons you see in gyms are cheap, and it takes 5 minutes to learn to sit on them. Much better than any chair, and your reputation as a free-thinker will be made!
Mostly random stuff.