Debian 2.2 Potato Is Stable

batsman was among the countless folks to announce that Potato is now Stable... i.e., Debian 2.2 has been released. The ISO is available, but I'm not linking (not because I'm an elitist (although I am) but to at least try to let the mirrors do their thing). No official word outside of mailing lists, but the 'stable' directory is now Potato. Congrats to all the ever slaving Debian developers... time to dist-upgrade those boxes that aren't already running woody! It's official now since the release is on Debian's site *grin*

Comments

No please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not another potato powered server!!

Re:No please!

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I did see Satan driving to work in a Zamboni today, so I knew something was up...

Ò

Re:No please!

[istartedi]

Hey, at least it's probably not a lemon.

*Not* linking?

[Platinum Dragon]

This must be a first - Slashdot not providing a link so the main server won't be slashdotted out of the gate.

Either Taco's growing a conscience, or he's just tired of "why are you linking before the mirrors go up??????????" posts.

Re:*Not* linking?

[Life Blood]

Actually this is the second time he hasn't linked to linux site with an ISO. Last time he just said something like, "If you don't know where to get it I'm not going to tell you." I think it might have been slackware.

Re:*Not* linking?

[pootypeople]

Man- this Anonymous Coward deserved to be moderated better. It's funny- really. Debian- see how stable this sucker is! C'mon! Of course we already know- look at Corel Linux (based on debian) and you can see how easy it is to make an UNSTABLE AS HELL debian based distro. God. I think the only thing that it didn't do that windows did was give me bluescreens. Sometimes I would have appreciated that-- at least a little information instead of a hang. Okay. That was offtopic as hell. oh well...

Re:*Not* linking?

[dr3amscap3]

Actually, that quote was in reference to the RedHat 7.0 beta release.

Re:*Not* linking?

[gle]

Why not link to the list of mirrors instead ?
That would be more luser-friendly.

Debian Team Bravo

[jjr]

I can not wait to try it out. I am glad you guys stick to your guns when it comes to your software. You help keep everyone honest.

Re:Debian Team Bravo

[B.D.Mills]

Shouldn't that be "sticking to your gnus"?

--

Re:Debian Team Bravo

[thopkins]

It's actually "sticking to your GNU/Guns".

I know what's going on....

[Bob the Destroyer]

CmdrTaco is just keeping everyone away by not posting the links while he gets prime download time....

Long wait

[ajlitt]

Finally! It took them long enough.

Still, it explains why my apt-get failed earlier this afternoon...

Re:Long wait

[beleriand]

That's why you should put the name of the release (ie. potato, woody) in /etc/apt/sources.list, and not the symlink (stable, frozen, unstable).

Potato?

[Atomizer]

Does this mean potato power is supported in the kernel finally?

Re:Potato?

[flikx]

Sorry, apmd doesn't support potato power yet. Plus my laptop's bios will not utilize advanced tuber power, only Lithium-Ion technology.

Look for it in the next stable release, or maybe netBSD will support it.

Re:Potato?

[Mark A. Rhowe]

Actually, as shown here, parallel potato processing is now standard.

at last!

[jamienk]

So now I finally get to experiment with the 2.2 kernals, October Gnome, XFree 3.33, and KDE 1.2 from the "non-free" section? RIGHT ON! I just hope they're stable...

:)

Re:at last!

[Cerb]

You know you can get info on the latest X packages at http://www.debian.org/~branden?

Re:at last!

[Cerb]

By the way there is a link to X 4.0.1 pacakges at http://www.debian.org/~branden. READ THE README FIRST!

Re: at last!

[joey]

Kde is still not in debian, nor in non-free.
--

Re:at last!

[guacamole]

Dude, if you have been waiting for those featues till now, I am sorry for you. There are unofficial KDE, October GNOME and XFree86 3.3.5 packages for Debian 2.1 (slink) and you can campile the latest kernel your-self...

I really like debian's release system.

[evilned]

Ok, there are gonna be alot of people bitching about how slow debian is on releases. Well, if you are gonna run a server, running the latest and greatest is a bad idea. With the long testing periods, when a release makes stable, you know damn well its stable. As for those who want to be on the bleeding edge, there is the unstable directory. I run stable on anything like a server, but on my personal machine, where I like to play with the latest Helixcode gnome, the unstable is great. Debian's release system give you the information so that you can make a somewhat informed decision on stability vs. being current, and I appreciate that.

Re:I really like debian's release system.

[Anonymous Coward]

I ran Debian from its earliest releases through Debian 2.1. Personally, I have never been impressed. Debian has always had too many rough edges. I still have nightmares about "dselect". Oh god, all those god damn "suggested" dependencies. Man, that was living hell.

I switched to another distribution of Linux. So as to avoid flames, I won't mention its name. This non-Debian Linux distribution works so smoothly that I will never go back to Debian. Never. Not ever.

Believe me, I wanted to like Debian. I convinced myself that I liked Debian. I mean c'mon, it's PC to like Debian. But when I look back, I see that I wasted a lot of time when I could have been running something which provided fewer headaches, and fewer problems.

Re:I really like debian's release system.

[timmyd]

most people don't run dselect. apt-get is the utility of choice for some. here is a small guide.

• add deb location and woody/potato to /etc/apt/sources.list
• type apt-get update for a list of packages
• type apt-get install program-name to install a program
• type apt-get remove program-name to remove a program
• type apt-cache search substring to search for packages
• type apt-cache show package-name to show info about a package
• apt-get upgrade to get all the latest ones

unlike dselect, apt doesn't fool with all the suggested packages and just gets the ones you need

Re:I really like debian's release system.

[Greg W.]

I feel your pain. I hate dselect, too.

Know what? You don't have to use it. As of Debian 2.1, there's a new package management tool called apt-get. (Eventually there will be a front-end called apt or something, but it's not ready yet.) While apt-get doesn't do everything that dselect does, it's a whole lot less painful.

For example, to check for new packages and then upgrade all your existing packages, you can use the following commands:

apt-get update
apt-get upgrade

Re:I really like debian's release system.

[Panelvan]

Unfortunately, debian doesn't use apt for selecting packages during installation, but hangs on with six floppies and dselect. Yuck!

Re:I really like debian's release system.

[shao]

BTW, debian unstalbe in my experience is still a lot more stable than any other distros' official releases out there...

Re:I really like debian's release system.

[ttyRazor]

Oh, yeah, pressing the enter key once to ignore all those evil suggested packages was really that hard :) (then again, maybe they've changed stuff between the time you stopped and I started using Debian, but I found dselect, albeit a tad nonintuitive, far easier than rpm based systems which just bitch if you don't have a dependency and force you to hunt it down yourself)

Re:I really like debian's release system.

[joey]

You're obviosly not tried debian 2.2.
--

Re:I really like debian's release system.

[Tet]

I feel your pain. I hate dselect, too.

I don't know why everyone says that. dselect was the thing I liked most about Debian. I kept thinking about porting it to sit on top of RPM instead of dpkg for my RH systems, but never got round to it...

Re:I really like debian's release system.

[Rev. DeFiLEZ]

Debian does not have ruff edges.

it took me 6 installs to figure out what the hell it was doing and when my dumb ass finally figured it out i was awe struck. Never again will i use a non-debian distro.

u just take off the suggested depends if you dont want them (thats why they are labeled sugested)

rev

Re:I really like debian's release system.

[shambler snack]

Ok, there are gonna be alot of people bitching about how slow debian is on releases.

The complaint isn't a bitch, but the process is. You go on to talk about the long testing periods, but the best testing period is when it's released and out in the field. If I want to stay behind the curve with say, RedHat, I can go to RedHat's site and pick up patches against RedHat releases that are just as old as anything Debian puts out.

Your comment about long testing also runs counter to the claims of many in the Open Source community that when a problem comes up (such as a bug in the Linux kernel), it can be fixed rather quickly. Why should I sit behind the curve waiting for "stability" when I can get good stability, performance, and features on the curve with just about every other distribution that isn't Debian based? Damon Runyan's oft quoted "the race may not go to the strong and swift, but that's the way to bet your money" applies to Linux as to everything else in software; I'd rather bet my money on anything but Debian.

Re:I really like debian's release system.

[Mawbid]

I was hearing complaints about dselect long before I had any of my own and I didn't get it either. Then I experienced some of the problems that had bitten other users. My memory of this is a bit blurry so I can't name specific examples, but suffice it to say that there was a lot of frustration as I struggled with dselect's conflict resolution screen and any change I made, even trying to just back out of the change that caused the conflict, would bring about more conflicts. Often I would just hit ctrl-c and start over.
--

Re:I really like debian's release system.

[YoungHack]

I don't know why everyone is so hard on dselect.
Except for the fact that it is always dumping up
annoying help screens, it works very, very well.

It gives you a convenient list of what can be
installed, it shows you dependencies and suggests
packages to install. You can see what you have
installed quickly if you want to clean things up.
And it will tell you what is going to break if you
remove a package.

Apt and dpkg and rpm are fine when you want to
quick install a single package, and apt is
terrific for getting up-to-date fast. But for
getting a whole picture of what is going on, you
can't beat dselect.

It is one of the best things about Debian if you
use it well.

Great news...

[cperciva]

But I wonder what my brother's new excuse will be.

He's been wearing the debian "what your mother would use if it was 20 times easier" t-shirt for a while, and has always used the upcoming release of 2.2 as an excuse for why *he* isn't using it.

I can just guess... "But the 2.4 kernel is going to be out soon, I can't install a debian while I'm waiting for that!"

Re:Great news...

[MusashiDragon]

(I'm his brother) Very funny. I bought the T-shirt so that the donation would go to Debian, and I've only worn it twice so far. What's the point of installing 2.1 when 2.2 was a few weeks away? Besides, why do i have to use Debian in order to wear the T-shirt? It's quite possible to approve of an OS you arent' running -- else how could I choose between various Linux distros and BSD? And, my dear Windows 2000-using brother, a kernel recompile is a trivial task. You see, Linux gives me the choice and freedom to do that.

Re:Great news...

[Chakotay]

What's the point of installing 2.1 when 2.2 was a few weeks away?

What's the point of waiting for potato to go stable while you could have already used it when it was frozen, or even when it was still unstable?

Keep in mind, what Debian calls "unstable" still won't crash on you. I've run potato in its unstable days for a very long time, and the only real problems I encountered were dependency problems.

)O(
Never underestimate the power of stupidity

Re:Great news...

[Nerds]

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize that "unstable" refers more to the fact that what is in the release is subject to change (hence, unstable), NOT that the software itself is unstable. All it means is that what is there now might not be what is there upon the final, stable, release.

Impressive...

[Isamuman]

First I would like to say that I am most impressed with the amount of restraint Taco-Man has shown in not linking.

However I would also like to give a congrats to the Debian People. I think it's time to take out the third partition of Red Hat and try some Debian (Slackware and Caldera are the others).

Re:First to link!

[BubbaFett]

Make your own ISO.

VPs of Old

[bighead_wong]

Shouldn't that be with an 'e': potatoe .

Ok. That was bad but . . .

Potato install guide

[Greg W.]

For those who are new to this, please start by reading the potato install guide. I seriously doubt that pre-burned CDs are available yet, but network installations should be possible.

The main web page (www.debian.org) still isn't updated, but we can't have everything, can we? ;-)

Re:Potato install guide

[Cerb]

Look again.

Re:Potato install guide

[Cerb]

Well shit they are still working on them...

Re:Potato install guide

[hjw]

potato cds are available from http://www.cruithne.org

One reason *not* to link ...

[Frater 219]

... is that Debian has sets of Web and FTP mirrors in eighteen different nations. If you are in Poland, for instance, you should be using www.pl.debian.org.

Re:One reason *not* to link ...

[/]

Hey, if you are in Poland, you're probably doing something else with potatoes anyway. ;-)

Re:One reason *not* to link ...

[Aberlon]

Given that Debian 2.2 is used for brewing in some countries, it's certainly an incentive to call it 'Espy' around there... ;)

No offense intended.

Re:I hope...

[DavidOgg]

>> A real compiler that will blow the doors off of any of that hippie crap.

And you plan to run just the kernel then, no GNU OS?

hippie crap. Linux is hippie crap. Microsofts last FUD campaign, I can see it now...
"Dont use that hippie crap, use Win2k, we have short hair!"

apt?

[nconway]

time to dist-update those boxes that aren't already running woody!

Uh Rob, it's 'apt-get dist-upgrade' . For those of you wondering what I'm nitpicking about, from man apt-get:

dist-upgrade

dist-upgrade,in addition to performing the function of upgrade, also intelligently handles changing dependencies with new versions of packages; apt-get has a "smart" conflict resolution system, and it will attempt to upgrade the most important packages at the expense of less important ones if necessary. The /etc/apt/sources.list file contains a list of locations from which to retrieve desired package files.

P.S. I love Debian, and I'm running it at home. Hmmm... last time I checked Potato was using Linux 2.2.17preX - is there a reason why the Debian developers felt it was necessary to release 2.2 now, even though it has an 'unstable' kernel. Are there some 'issues' with 2.2.16 that I should know about (of course, I run 2.4.0test on most of my home boxen, but I'm just wondering).

Re:apt?

[Dionysus]

Doesn't apt-get dist-upgrade also install packages that you didn't have originally?

Say, I have a system without X, won't dist-upgrade install X too?

Re:apt?

[the N man]

No, dist-upgrade will only upgrade packages you already have installed in your machine. If you need/want any new ones, just apt-get install .

--

Re:apt?

[hollo32]

And you don't need to be running the most recent version of debian in order to make upgrade smoothly to 2.2 - not by a long way. Out of interest I found an old debian 1.1 (buzz) installation, and had a look to see how the upgrade to 2.2 went. Debian 1.1 is a 1996, libc5 distribution with a 2.0.0 kernel, but the upgrade worked with one piece of manual intervention halfway through, and a single reboot in order to install the new kernel. Not bad, though admittedly probably not very useful for very many people!

Re:Where do I get my CD image?

[Phil Hands]

That is REALLY STUNNINGLY UNHELPFUL

The box you link to is a P166, which is currently running at a load average of around 10 just dealing with the rsyncs from the mirrors.

Please moderate this moron to the nether reaches of hell --- Thank you.

Not entirely true

[Ars-Fartsica]

Well, if you are gonna run a server, running the latest and greatest is a bad idea. With the long testing periods, when a release makes stable, you know damn well its stable.

Arguably the only valid testing is to get it out there and wait for problems to appear. They will anyway, regardless of how long Debian has taken.

On the other hand, the slow release cycle is slowly stripping debian marketshare to the tpoint where none of this will matter. I can't see debian being relevant in two years at this pace.

Re:Not entirely true

[kronos]

Arguably the only valid testing is to get it out there and wait for problems to appear.

But the simple fact that the unstable (and the beta "frozen") distribution is available to anyone at all times takes advantage of this. Debian's unstable (ie., the cutting-edge branch) is being tested on an innumerable number of machines constantly.

The stable distribution is testing to almost ludicrous stability; home users and other non-"mission critical" users are fully able to run the latest bleeding edge. At work, we run potato exclusively (once it got far enough into the frozen stage). We can't have anything break, and a working system is more important than the latest toys. Toys are more important at home, so i run Woody :)

Re:Not entirely true

[ameoba]

Maybe Debian GNU/Linux won't be relevant in two years, but now that people are actually working on it Debian GNU/Hurd might be usuable in two years time.

If Sun has their way, now that they're releasing Solaris for 'free', in two years no Linux distros will matter.

Re:Not entirely true

[Wiwi Jumbo]

What about the "morals" of Debian?

I'm _extreamly_ new to linux/unix, but I'm begining to play with Debian because of there comepletely free ideals... sure, maybe I'll get burned in the end and go with something like Mandrake, but I'm sure there are those more experienced then I who will perfer Debian for the very reasons it intrests me now.

Wiwi
"I trust in my abilities,

Re:Not entirely true

[rgmoore]

Arguably the only valid testing is to get it out there and wait for problems to appear. They will anyway, regardless of how long Debian has taken.

Or, to put it another way, you can't really guarantee a 1 year uptime until you've actually run a few servers for a year without them going down. You never know if there's going to be a subtle, slow acting bug of some kind that happens to kill systems after 6 months until you test those systems for that kind of time scale.

Re:Not entirely true

[doozer]

How is debian different from any other distro in this respect? Simple, it's better, not worse.

With redhat, when you upgrade when they release every 6 months, and you will never see the bug, though it might be there.

With debian, because of the longer release cycle, it might get found.

Finding long term bugs has nothing to do with how often you release, it has to do with how ofter you upgrade your systems.

Re:Not entirely true

[Menthos]

You mentioned Mandrake... why not Red Hat? If the concern about freedom really is important, Red Hat might be a good choice too. They release _all_ their software as GPL/LGPL, and help with GNOME development, GTK+, etc.

Re:Not entirely true

[Ka0s]

Relevant or not, I know I'll still be running Debian 2 years from now. And 2 years after that. (That is, if they keep on kicking).

Why? Because noone really runs potato or slink, most people run unstable. (No, it's not unstable. The possibility is just there because the packages change daily). apt is THE best installer for any distro, and it is the whole reason Debian rocks so hard. Anyone who tried Debian before apt came along, and was stuck with dselect, try it again. dselect is horrible, they know it - thats why apt came about.

Re:Not entirely true

[HiThere]

Still, it would be nice if they had a three-phase release system. Say, a "bleeding edge" release as well as an unstable release. They sometimes do, as Woody was available before Potato was considered stable. But I guess that the complexity of the system might offset any gain.

Still, I'm a long way from being a kernel hacker, and it would be nice if I could get some idea of what I was getting into before I installed. I admit, I can't think of a decent way to do that, systems being as dynamic as they are (well, last week the SCSI was beta for Adaptec cards xx.yQ - xx.zZ, but this week...)

Re:Not entirely true

[Zaknafein]

Ludicrous speed, GO!
Its Spaceball one. They went to plaid.

Re:Not entirely true

[Tralfamadorian]

You should try FreeBSD then, with its ports collection. I first tried FreeBSD a couple of months ago because it was difficult getting my USB mouse working in linux, and my ATA/66 controller wasn't supported. I installed the unstable (-current) freebsd 4.0, and my hardware worked out of the box (save for the learning curve of configuring the kernel, and otherwise using a BSD system). I actually spent as much time trying to get my hardware working on a platform that I knew as I did learning a whole new one AND getting the hardware working. I can't play QIII on it or use my video capture card, but dual-booting is a small price to pay for the ports collection.

I did try Debian linux a while back, but the very thing that turned me away was the dpackage that ran during installation


He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man

Re:Not entirely true

[Tough Love]

...the slow release cycle is slowly stripping debian marketshare to the tpoint where none of this will matter. I can't see debian being relevant in two years at this pace.

Don't be silly. Exactly because of its conservativism and slow release cycle, Debian is made-in-heaven as a base distribution for other distributions. For example, Corel, Storm Linux and many others.

It doesn't hurt that you can be *sure* that all the code in Debian is free, as in both beer and speech.
--

Re:Not entirely true

[Ka0s]

You can avoid dselect. I've still got slink CD's (*gasp*) - I just install, then when it asks me to run dselect, select no. dpkg is installed - just mount cdrom, install apt and some needed things, then apt-get does the rest. Apt manages everything,.. system dependancies, the system's integrity, dpkg has a list of installed packages - apt-cache search allows you to search for available packages[to download/install]. The configuration of all the packages is done with deb-config or something, basicly when you install and there is a package that requires some user-setting up, a dialog/gui/whatever(configurable) will pop up and ask you to set it up. Very neat.

Also, I prefer binaries to source. I'm on a 56k modem, binaries are quite smaller than source, plus with binaries you just need to install - no compiling. What if I wanted to install mozilla? 25mb+ source ..
If you are a source junkie, you can still use apt for getting/compiling source, just add deb-src in /etc/apt/sources.list
- then apt-get update; apt-get souce [package]

Re:Not entirely true

[RelliK]

I've been running for over 2 years. Debian is one of my favorite ditro's. I consider it to be absolutely the best distribution for a server for exactly the reasons people mentioned above in this thread: 1) long testing cycles, 2) amazing package management. I can describe my experience with Debian in one sentence: it's a pain in the ass to install, but a pleasure to maintain. Note that none of the ideological reasons do it for me. My reasons for preferring Debian are very practical. Also, I don't find Debian very well suited for a desktop/workstation. I'm running Mandrake on mine.
___

Re:Not entirely true

[RelliK]

They release _all_ their software as GPL/LGPL

So does Mandrake.

Having used RedHat's 5.x series (that was my first exposure to Linux), I got so sick of it that I decided to never use it again. Switched to SuSE, and later to Mandrake.
If there is a one-sentence description of Mandrake, it would be this: better RedHat than RedHat. (Or, if you prefer, a RedHat that actually works).
___

Re:Not entirely true

[Menthos]

Heh... Red Hat 5.1 was my first real Linux experience too (not counting a quick journey with some Slackware on floppies several years before ;-).

I decided to try Mandrake 6.2 or so but got so utterly disappointed with their broken GNOME, so I switched back to Red Hat. Haven't regretted it since.

useful links

[semis]

Full list of mirrors: http://www.debian.org/misc/README.mirrors

The (mirrored) official announcement from Martin Schulze: http://www.ids.org.au/ian/potato- announcement.txt.

Remeber, irc.debian.org (open projects) #debian, and #mashpotato for support.
And remember, before asking anything, '/msg apt install guide' !

Also, mark_, netsnipe, and raja have worked hard to bring you MashPotato (The Mobile Array of Support Helpers for Potato ), visit the website: http://www.linuxgiant.com/debian/

Enjoy!

Re:useful links

[dirvin]

Linux System Labs (in the US) LSL has debian 2.2 in stock and is shipping out orders today!

Re:Where do I get my CD image?

[Phil Hands]

why? because nobody would be interested in getting a copy? ;-)

The mirrors are still getting it

[mduell]

According to http://cdimage.debian.org/:
"Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 ("Potato") has been released. CD images are becoming available on our mirrors at this moment."

Mark Duell

Re:Where do I get my CD image?

[Cerb]

OK, well since you say so. We'll get right on it and format off those ISO images and install FreeBSD... :)

The end of the test cycles!

[j]

During the past few months I've seen a lot of Debian bug report replies contain statements along the lines of "I'll address this once Potato goes stable". Now developers will have more time to focus on the woody distribution. (btw, you guys rock!)

I'm also glad to see the old stable distro (slink) slide off the stack.

j

--

this username for sale by original owner

What are the ramifications...

[Anonymous Coward]

... of this release in the post-Columbine era?

Re:What are the ramifications...

[flikx]

Taco: Please test the KatzBot in tacohell only.

Thank you.

potato

[Mathieu Lu]

I've been using Debian for a while now, I really love it, but I usually didn't recommend it to newbies. I recently installed a snapshot of the frozen potato at work, and I was really impressed.

First, the installer doesn't just dumps you in dselect anymore. You get a list of tasks to install. There's also a nice config app for XFree that works very well (although I don't know why most distros dont use XF86Setup).

Of course, I'm a fairly lazy person, so I simply downloaded the first iso, burned it, made a base install, and dist-upgraded with most tasks to woody. (Most stores don't carry non-stable Debian CDs)

This rocks, because I was at work, so I needed to install quickly. The full install, including the download of all up to date woody packages on a cable-modem took me about an hour. This is basically due to the fact that I'm not used to re-installing and I didn't do so since about 8 months. (and I have a cheapo PnP ISA SoundBlaster 16 (don't ask..))

Anyways, to get back on what I meant to say: Everyone that thinks Linux sucks will love this Debian release, "apt" rocks.

Now, let's go get drunk and spread the good news :)

Re:potato

[emj]

The problem isn't that Debian is Newbie unfriendly (It was my first Linux Dist, way back) but that you actually have to think. You just can't hit enter five times to get those 500pkgs installed. You have to consider, what do I need.

Dslect is still the only way to install debian, you need mch more finegrained controll than the tasklist gives you.

dselect is unique work of art, the most powerfull installer out there.

Will Corel Linux 2.0 be Potato Based?

[Cy Guy]

Corel is scheduled to preview its 'Second Edition' release of Corel Linux OS at LinuxWorld this week (later today actually, since it is already Tuesday where I am). Does the release of the potato today imply that CLOS2 will be potato based?

Also, how will the 2.4 kernel affect CLOS & potato when it comes out later this Autumn?

Re:Will Corel Linux 2.0 be Potato Based?

[Deep_Blue]

> Also, how will the 2.4 kernel affect CLOS & potato when it comes out later this Autumn?
I guess in any way.I was running 2.4pre1 through pre4 with potato with no problems.
I don't see how it will affect Corel too much unless they still use that monster
kde-corel which makes it pretty impossible to upgrade too much.That's why I dumped
Corel.Maybe you should wait and see or even better switch now?:-)

Re:Will Corel Linux 2.0 be Potato Based?

[matticus]

no, it will be based on a low-calorie alternative to the potato.

Re:Will Corel Linux 2.0 be Potato Based?

[frank249]

Corel LINUX® OS 2 based on Debian 2.2.16 Kernel & glibc 2.1.

A list of what is included is here.

Corel® LINUX® OS Second Edition is available for download here. You can choose to download an ISO image (451 MB) or compressed version (347 MB) in the form of a gzipped ISO image.

If you do not have a CD-writer, a download CD can be ordered from Corel Customer Service for US $4.95 plus shipping, handling and applicable taxes.

Press Release is here

Same PR says that CorelDRAW 9 Graphics Suite for Linux is scheduled to begin shipping by the end of August, 2000 for a suggested retail price of US $249.

BTW Corel rep says there is no truth to Mac WordPerfect Office rumors.

CDs in Australia....

[imroy]

I just checked out Linux System Labs and EverythingLinux for the CDs (they both contribute to debian and are listed as such on the debian web site). Amazingly, LSL has Potato CDR's, and they don't seem to be 'beta' versions either. Someone must at LSL must be on the debian-announce mailing list :)

Here - Debian 2.2 (Official final release) CDs from LSL

Re:CDs in Australia....

[dirvin]

Linux System Labs is a US based company and has no affilation with LSL Australia. LSL (The US company since 1993) LSL has the "Official" Potato CDs in stock and is shipping now!

Re:CDs in Australia....

[mindstrm]

If you keep a mirror up to date, it would only take a minute or two to get whatever 'final' changes were necessary to be up to date to the release version.

Debian is in it's own little world

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem I had with Debian is that the software they have packaged up is always FAR behind the ball. I mean c'mon... for example, the latest GNOME they had available was 0.3x right when GNOME hit 1.0

Now that's bad enough, but on top of that, the Debian system makes hell on users who try to install other software. If you happened to download a .tar.gz file and do the make / install yourself, the Debian installer had no way to let you update the dependencies. So next time you went and grabbed a .deb release, you'd end up overwriting the newer libs from your .tar.gz file. Simply brain dead. The Debian team needs to realize that people MIGHT just want to install software OTHER than what they provide. What a concept.

Re:Debian is in it's own little world

[Rapier]

If you are going to compile and install software yourself, then stick it in /usr/local where it belongs. otherwise grab the latest and greatest from the "unstable" tree if you really need it.

Re:Debian is in it's own little world

[Phil Hands]

You want the latest greatest Gnome? You want to install software from third party sources? You want the latest greatest everything else?

Just put these two lines in /etc/apt/sources.list:

deb http://www.uk.debian.org/debian woody main non-US/main
deb http://spidermonkey.helixcode.com/distributions/de bian unstable main

and you get the latest (albeit, so called unstable) "woody" distribution, with the addition of Gnome from HelixCode.

Admittedly, it's about as unstable as most other distro's are when they're released, but if you can put up with that, it's what you were looking for.

Re:Debian is in it's own little world

[SecretAsianMan]

otherwise grab the latest and greatest from the "unstable" tree if you really need it

Look, I don't know if I did this wrong back in my Debian days, but I wanted to try just one package from unstable. Just ONE. Well, that required me to update to the unstable libc. Next, the new libc required me to update every other damn program to unstable. All for just one package. About that time, I tried FreeBSD, and the rest is history.

Re:Debian is in it's own little world

[Helge Hafting]

Look, I don't know if I did this wrong back in my Debian days, but I wanted to try just one package from unstable. Just ONE. Well, that required me to update to the unstable libc.

But of course! That ONE package (probably) couldn't work with your older libc. Did you want a BROKEN install? Of course, if you believe the dependency is wrong, go ahead and use something like "dpkg -i package.deb --force-depends"

You don't have to pay attention to dependencies, if you know that your use of the program won't need the newer library.

Re:Debian is in it's own little world

[SecretAsianMan]

You don't have to pay attention to dependencies, if you know that your use of the program won't need the newer library

Wow! I find it totally RIDICULOUS that I would have to worry about what library calls the prog makes. I like the power and flexibility that a Unix-like OS provides, but this is ridiculous. /Rant.

Re:Debian is in it's own little world

[FigWig]

Have you ever heard of DLL Hell? The situation is the same on the windows side, just that most apps include their own version of the dynamic libraries in their app, which unfortunately blow away whatever you have installed and lead to an unstable system. It's hard to manage different versions of these libs.

Add partitioning,

[Nanookanano]

and you have a veggie platter.

ePotato?

[Atomizer]

Isn't that now ePotato? Since Gore invented the Internet.

Re:ePotato?

[nicky_d]

So long as you're throwing your 'e's around in honour of politicians, why not give a nod to the great statesman D. Quayle and name it ePotatoe?

Wow!

[tobam'i]

Can you imagine a Beowulf cluster of these? Woo!

--

Debian's naming scheme

[rwg]

Going along with the Toy Story naming scheme, when can we expect the "Stinky Pete" release? (Say what you will about "Stinky Pete," but "Woody" is a release name only a pervert could love...)

Re:Debian's naming scheme

[Fishstick]

I was wondering about this the other day, what was the name of the female character in the last movie (voiced by Joan Cuszak?) Jessie, Jamie.. something like that.

Anyway, I was just going through the names to see what sounded fun:

Rex (sounds more gay than 'woody')
Peep (sounds like peeping tom)
Sketch (I like the way this sounds, but this was a very minor character)
Hamm (seems a lot more likely than 'Stinky Pete').

Re:Debian's naming scheme

[Fishstick]

...got it. I admit I've only switched to Debian in the last year starting with 2.1 so I new to the naming conventions. Thanks for straightening me out without trying to make me feel stupid or anything (bitter sarcasm).

Re:Debian's naming scheme

[Fishstick]

Actually, that's not quite right, according to this.

1.1 was buzz
1.2 was rex
1.3 was bo
2.0 was hamm

got it!!??

For someone who changes Linux distributions

[Fervent]

For someone who changes his Linux distribution, what do you guys recommend as a good base? I currently use Caldera OpenLinux (it by far had the easiest installer), but was a user of RedHat up until a year ago.

Keep in mind, while I've been working with computers for 15 years (began programming TI-99/4A basic when I was 6 :) ), Linux is relatively new to me. I'm teaching myself all the Unix commands as I go along, and I've been playing around with it for a year or two.

I've heard good things about Debian, but the install freaks me out (same reason I don't want to try FreeBSD). Apparently the new stable release is a little easier on the install. What's the default, KDE or Gnome? Should I stick with Caldera OpenLinux (it seems to do the job for me, all I do is browse the internet and program C++ on it), or is there something more Debian can offer?

Re:For someone who changes Linux distributions

[mmca]

The FreeBSD 4.1 install is very easy.

Maybe not RedHat easy but if you have 15 years of computer experience it should be a walk in the park... give it a try www.freebsd.org

-Chong

Re:For someone who changes Linux distributions

[1%warren]

If you installed Redhat > a year ago, you'll find the Debian Install pretty familiar. Just read the Instructions & follow them......:)

Apt-get is a neat thing, but that & the much vaunted Debian "stability" are the only reasons to try Deb (bar the "political" aspects), if you already have Caldera. If you want great new features & an easy install, get the Mandrake 7.1 CD's from Cheapbytes

--

Re:Ahh Excellent

[IkeTo]

Except that in Debian, STABLE does not mean programs runs correctly or reliably. Instead it means it won't change regularly, unlike frozen or unstable.

WRONG, read the docs before you talk.

[Andrew Cady]

Now that's bad enough, but on top of that, the Debian system makes hell on users who try to install other software. If you happened to download a .tar.gz file and do the make / install yourself, the Debian installer had no way to let you update the dependencies. So next time you went and grabbed a .deb release, you'd end up overwriting the newer libs from your .tar.gz file. Simply brain dead. The Debian team needs to realize that people MIGHT just want to install software OTHER than what they provide. What a concept.

If you don't want dpkg to manage a package, you put the package on "hold". If you want to ignore dependencies, you use dpkg --ignore-depends=package

So like I said, read the docs before you criticize. Just because you don't know how to do something, does not mean Debian does not let you do it.

Re:WRONG, read the docs before you talk.

[Jason W]

I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant that dpkg should be able to accept dependaecies from .tar.gz files, so you wouldn't get dependency errors and be forced to use --ignore-depends. --ignore-depends is just like --no-deps in RPM, but RPM also allows you to add dependencies in /etc/rpmrc

Maybe dpkg has an option to do that; I wouldn't know since it wouldn't install on my RH system.

Re:WRONG, read the docs before you talk.

[doozer]

there is a debian package called equivs that allows you to specify that you have local software installed that provides any debian packages.

Re:WRONG, read the docs before you talk.

[doozer]

You can do it that way, or install the debian equivs package.

You set equivs up and tells the system that there is local software installed that provides qt, or x or whatever you need.

I use if on my local install of X until branden gets X stable. This way, i don't have to fool with putting packages on hold.

Re:WRONG, read the docs before you talk.

[jaydub2001]

You can add lines to your /etc/apt/sources.list to pick up packages from other sources. For the latest KDE stuff, add these: deb http://kde.tdyc.com/ potato kde kde2 contrib deb http://kde.tdyc.com/ woody kde kde2 contrib As always, those that are first to criticize are last to research and try stuff out

Ultimate sources.list for Debian - 6000 packages

[CraigMcPherson]

Here's my sources.list. I think the comments speak for themselves. Let me know if you have anything to add.

Enjoy!


# Last edited 8/14/00 CM
# /etc/apt/sources.list

# ULTIMATE SOURCE.LIST
# Maintained by Craig McPherson
# Contributors:
#
# Benjamin Patrick Mohan
# Philip (FireEgl)
# Anyone I'm forgetting (please let me know)

# This is meant to be used with systems running the unstable version
# of Debian. It fetches stable package lists also for purposes of
# completeness (some packages I like were removed from slink), and
# because there's no harm in it. This list also will fetch package
# lists from the project/experimental branch. These are new packages
# that haven't yet been accepted into even the unstable release.
# These packages are usually marked as experimental in the package
# description itself, and I must warn you that these packages are often
# VERY experimental. There's some GREAT stuff in project/experimental,
# and there's stuff that will crash the moment it's installed. I've
# never encountered anything that actually hurt the system, so don't
# be afraid to give them a try. That's part of the fun of it. Final
# note is that there is some redundancy in this list. This is because
# I don't like having to edit the file whenever a server is down, which
# seems to happen a lot with some servers -- important stuff is always
# fetched from two locations, in case one is down. This will make an
# apt-get update take a few minutes longer on a modem connection, so
# comment-out whatever you want.

# To put this file to good use, copy it (or the parts of it you want)
# to your /etc/apt/sources.list, and then either run the command
# apt-get update, or select the "update" option in dselect.

# This is just a jumping-off point. This is just what works for me. For
# people with cable modems and other fast connections, it would be
# advantageous to check the Debian mirrors list and replace some of the
# servers below with servers that you can get a high data transfer rate
# from. The first two servers below were chosen for their good ping time
# from my location, not for actual data transfer rate -- I didn't want
# to spend all day downloading from 50 servers to see which were fastest,
# so I just selected the first two based on ping time. The others servers
# on the list are unique in some way. Final note, I don't know what would
# happen if you used this file with Corel or Storm Linux, because I haven't
# used them yet. Check their documentation for the consequences and caveats
# of using normal Debian archives with those distros, and let me know while
# I'm at it, I'm curious about how it works.

# FYI: You will note $(ARCH) in some of the entries below. APT will
# substitute your system architecture (i386 for Intel users) whereever
# $(ARCH) appears. This allows access cross-platform with the same
# sources file. See the sources.list manpage for more info.

# PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD TO THIS, we can
# work together to create the ULTIMATE sources.list. :)

# umich.edu - main US mirror I use, very fast connection
deb ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/debian/ stable main contrib non-free
deb ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/debian/ dists/proposed-updates/
deb ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/debian/ project/experimental/
deb-src ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/debian/ stable main contrib non-free
deb-src ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb-src ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/debian/ dists/proposed-updates/
deb-src ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/debian/ project/experimental/

# ca.debian.org - main non-US mirror, emergency main mirror
# Uncomment the commented-out lines below if the United States blows up
# but you still need to update your Debian system.
deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/contrib/binary-$(ARCH)/
deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/non-free/binary-$(ARCH)/
deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/main/binary-$(ARCH)/
#deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/contrib/binary-all/
#deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/non-free/binary-all/
#deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/main/binary-all/
deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/contrib/binary-$(ARCH)/
deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/non-free/binary-$(ARCH)/
deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/main/binary-$(ARCH)/
#deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/contrib/binary-all/
#deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/non-free/binary-all/
#deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/main/binary-all/
#deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ stable main contrib non-free
#deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
#deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ dists/proposed-updates/
#deb ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ project/experimental/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/contrib/sources/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/main/sources/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/contrib/sources/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/main/sources/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/contrib/sources/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/main/sources/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ stable main contrib non-free
#deb-src ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
#deb-src ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ dists/proposed-updates/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.ca.debian.org/debian/ project/experimental/

# Netgod: New X stuff. It's cool.
deb ftp://ftp.netgod.net/ x/

# TDYC: KDE and Stuff
# Note: the kde2 branch contains heavily developmental stuff. It
# was pretty rough last time I checked, but that was a long time
# ago, so use your own judgement in trying it.
deb ftp://kde.tdyc.com/pub/kde/debian stable contrib kde rkrusty
deb ftp://kde.tdyc.com/pub/kde/debian unstable contrib kde
deb ftp://kde.tdyc.com/pub/kde/debian unstable kde2
deb-src ftp://kde.tdyc.com/pub/kde/debian stable contrib kde rkrusty
deb-src ftp://kde.tdyc.com/pub/kde/debian unstable contrib kde
deb-src ftp://kde.tdyc.com/pub/kde/debian unstable kde2

# Main Debian archive and main security/non-US site
# Pandora is the same server as security.debian.org and non-us.debian.org
deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian dists/proposed-updates/
deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian project/experimental/
deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-security/ stable updates
#deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-security/ unstable updates
deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/contrib/binary-$(ARCH)/
deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/main/binary-$(ARCH)/
deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/non-free/binary-$(ARCH)/
#deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/contrib/binary-all/
#deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/main/binary-all/
#deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/non-free/binary-all/
deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/contrib/binary-$(ARCH)/
deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/main/binary-$(ARCH)/
deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/non-free/binary-$(ARCH)/
#deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/contrib/binary-all/
#deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/main/binary-all/
#deb ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/non-free/binary-all/
deb-src ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free
deb-src ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
deb-src ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian dists/proposed-updates/
deb-src ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian project/experimental/
deb-src ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-security/ stable updates
#deb-src ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-security/ unstable updates
#deb-src ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/contrib/sources/
#deb-src ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/stable/non-US/main/sources/
#deb-src ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/contrib/sources/
#deb-src ftp://pandora.debian.org/debian-non-US/ dists/unstable/non-US/main/sources/

# Yet another backup mirror -- just in case
# This one is down at the moment, but usually pretty fast
#deb ftp://llug.sep.bnl.gov/debian stable main contrib non-free
#deb ftp://llug.sep.bnl.gov/debian/dists proposed-updates/
#deb ftp://llug.sep.bnl.gov/debian unstable main contrib non-free
#deb ftp://llug.sep.bnl.gov/debian project/experimental/
#deb-src ftp://llug.sep.bnl.gov/debian stable main contrib non-free
#deb-src ftp://llug.sep.bnl.gov/debian/dists proposed-updates/
#deb-src ftp://llug.sep.bnl.gov/debian unstable main contrib non-free
#deb-src ftp://llug.sep.bnl.gov/debian project/experimental/

# TDYC mirror - KDE and other stuff
# You might need this... TDYC is often overloaded.
# Now, the mirror itself seems to be down... I'll investigate.
deb ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-kde.tdyc.co m/ stable contrib
deb ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-kde.tdyc.co m/ stable rkrusty kde
deb ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-kde.tdyc.co m/ unstable contrib
deb ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-kde.tdyc.co m/ unstable kde
deb ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-kde.tdyc.co m/ unstable kde2
deb ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-snowcrash.t dyc.com/ stable contrib
deb ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-snowcrash.t dyc.com/ stable kde
deb ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-snowcrash.t dyc.com/ stable rkrusty
deb ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-snowcrash.t dyc.com/ unstable contrib
deb ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-snowcrash.t dyc.com/ unstable kde
deb ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-snowcrash.t dyc.com/ unstable kde2
deb-src ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-kde.tdyc.co m/ stable contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-kde.tdyc.co m/ stable rkrusty kde
deb-src ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-kde.tdyc.co m/ unstable contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-kde.tdyc.co m/ unstable kde
deb-src ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-kde.tdyc.co m/ unstable kde2
deb-src ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-snowcrash.t dyc.com/ stable contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-snowcrash.t dyc.com/ stable kde
deb-src ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-snowcrash.t dyc.com/ stable rkrusty
deb-src ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-snowcrash.t dyc.com/ unstable contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-snowcrash.t dyc.com/ unstable kde
deb-src ftp://ftp.uni-marburg.de/mirror/debian-snowcrash.t dyc.com/ unstable kde2

# Enlightenment
deb http://www.debian.org/~ljlane/downloads enlightenment/
deb http://www.debian.org/~ljlane/downloads enlightenment-cvs/

# GNOME
#These first two entries are commented out because they're currently
#dead. I'll put them back in if I find that they've been moved
#elsewhere
#deb ftp://gnomeftp.wgn.net/gnome-1.0/debian slink main
#deb ftp://gnomeftp.wgn.net/gnome-1.0/debian unstable main
deb http://www.debian.org/~jim/debian-gtk-gnome/gnome- stage-slink unstable main
deb http://www.debian.org/~jim/debian-gtk-gnome/gnome- stage-slink slink main
#deb http://www.debian.org/~jules/gnome-stage-2 unstable main

# Gabber (and other stuff, haven't fully investigated)
deb http://eliot.landrum.cx/packages frozen main
deb http://eliot.landrum.cx/packages unstable main

# Helix-Gnome stuff:
deb http://SpiderMonkey.HelixCode.Com/distributions/de bian unstable main

# Sawfish (was Sawmill) stuff:
deb http://WWW.RCPT.To/ pending main
deb-src http://WWW.RCPT.To/ pending main
deb http://WWW.RCPT.To/ non-patent main
deb-src http://WWW.RCPT.To/ non-patent main

# Official KDE:
deb ftp://FTP.US.KDE.Org/pub/kde/stable/latest/distrib ution/deb/potato i386/

# Other Enlightenment related CVS':
deb http://WWW.Debian.Org/~ljlane/downloads/ efm-cvs/
deb http://WWW.Debian.Org/~ljlane/downloads/ eterm-cvs/
deb http://WWW.Debian.Org/~ljlane/downloads/ epplets-cvs/
deb http://WWW.Debian.Org/~ljlane/downloads/ feh-cvs/
deb http://WWW.Debian.Org/~ljlane/downloads/ imlib2-cvs/
deb http://WWW.Debian.Org/~ljlane/downloads/ imlib-cvs/
deb http://WWW.Debian.Org/~ljlane/downloads/ econfig-cvs/
#deb http://WWW.Debian.Org/~ljlane/downloads/ ee2.cvs/

# PingOO - A French, Debian based Linux dist. (www.PingOO.Org)
deb ftp://FTP.PingOO.Org/debian stable main contrib xfree-update

#The next two entries are commented out because trying to install Storm
#or Corel packages on a straight Debian system often results in weird
#dependency issues. Comment out the appropriate entry if you're using
#Storm or Corel, otherwise use them at your own risk.

#Storm Linux
deb ftp://ftp.stormix.com/storm rain main contrib non-free
deb ftp://ftp.stormix.com/storm hail main contrib non-free
deb-src ftp://ftp.stormix.com/storm rain main contrib
deb-src ftp://ftp.stormix.com/storm hail main contrib

#Corel Linux
deb ftp://ftp.corel.com/pub/linux/CorelLinux corellinux-1.0 main contrib
deb ftp://ftp.corel.com/pub/linux/CorelLinux corellinux-1.0 non-free corel
#deb-src ftp://ftp.corel.com/pub/linux/source/corellinux-1. 0 main/source/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.corel.com/pub/linux/source/corellinux-1. 0 contrib/source/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.corel.com/pub/linux/source/corellinux-1. 0 corel/source/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.corel.com/pub/linux/source/corellinux-1. 1 main/source/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.corel.com/pub/linux/source/corellinux-1. 1 contrib/source/
#deb-src ftp://ftp.corel.com/pub/linux/source/corellinux-1. 1 corel/source/

#END /etc/apt/sources.list
#Craig McPherson - craig@bsu.dynhost.com

The LAST Potato(e) Joke!

[HiredMan]

"The potato goes in the front!"

Now can we please make it stop!?!?!?!

;) -tkk

Debian for everyone! - Download on gnutella

[subreality]

I got the ISO image of the first CD straight from ftp.debian.org last night. Anyone who wants a copy can find it on gnutella - search for potato-i386-1.raw and you'll find it. I have plenty of bandwidth to share around.

Of course, it's shared from a box running potato. :-)

Have fun, all!

--Kai
--slashsuckATvegaDOTfurDOTcom

Re:first

[flikx]

I got first post, and it was actually funny.

Wohooo

[tal256]

Congrats to all Debian developers
hopefully now the release cycle will speed up (I read something about woody frezing in 6months)

Any Libranet should soon upgrade (though they are already potato) and I'm all set.

___________________________________

Linux by Libranet - The TOP Desktop

Re:Ultimate sources.list for Debian - 6000 package

[MalaclypseJr]

Hey, Craig, when are you going to come back to us at LNO? Now that we know you're alive, we aren't going to stop until we have you back... :)

Excellent. When will woody freeze?

[RobotSlave]

I'm ecstatic about this news, because now my clients (as in, the people who pay me :) can run php4 on a stable debian (I've been tiding them over with apache 1.3.12+php built from source).

What I'm wondering now is when we can expect to see woody freeze. I apologize for not following the debian-devel list and picking up the debate on my own-- I'd feel like a creep lurking on the devel list for a project that I don't have time to commit to (Some day, debian, I will give back to you, but now is not the time... ).

My suggestion would be to commit to a freeze as soon as the 2.4 kernel is released. My simple-minded resoning is that Xfree 4.0 plus the new kernel should be sufficient reason to push a new stable release out the door.

I suspect that the issue has been discussed in much greater detail on the devel mailing list, and that there are many different schools of thought on the matter. I guess I fall into a hypothetical "updates to >n major packages warrant a new release" school of thought. I hold this view mostly due to frustration-- e.g., I was really upset when I learned that I could not build php out of CVS due to outdated gnu tools in slink.

But enough of my rambling. What we really need here is an update from someone intimate with the devel list. If there is consensus on when woody ought to freeze, what is it? If the matter is still being debated, what are the various viewpoints?

p.s. to debian weekly news: This is the sort of thing we would love to see covered, but I know Joey is spread pretty thin to begin with (perhaps because he's both very productive and quite tactful, to boot? ). Commentary from someone not intimate with the project might be welcome, as an addition to dwn, just as it might be unwelcome as an addition to the devel list.

p.p.s. to (lwn | dwn | linuxworld | linuxtoday) : If you're willing to remburse someone, modestly, to lurk and cover debian-devel, put a notice up on your site (or better yet, just drop me a line :).

MashPotato

[Netsnipe]

Hello everyone,

This is Andrew "Netsnipe" Lau from the MashPotato/B> Project,currently being hosted at LinuxGiant until Raja is well enough to move it over to SourceForge, who is hosting our project. Thanks semis for getting the post in early. Most of the crew are volunteers from the official #debian IRC channel at irc.debian.org. MashPotato's aim is to provide all users of Debian with comprehensive live IRC support and an ongoing website. Over the upcoming months, the MashPotato site will be loaded with the latest tips, guides and Debian news, but currently our priority is to help out new and old Debian GNU/Linux users getting a hang of Potato and Woody as well.
Here's an excerpt from a post that was made on the Debian-user mailing list:

We here at #debian, the official IRC channel of Debian have decided that when Potato 2.2 does officially become stable, that we will provide the most comprehensive Debian GNU/Linux support service that we can to users both new and old. However, being the official IRC room, #debian will be overwhelmed with literally hundreds of users seeking installation and configuration help. The task would be quite daunting for regulars there as we already handle several dozen help requests a day.
Hence, the Potato release now has a dedicated IRC tech support crew nicknamed the Mobile Array of Support Helpers for Potato (MashPotato) which serve around the clock for users around the world. To make things easier, we will also divert users to different channels from #debian to for example #mashpotato and #mashpotato-X, #mashpotato-sound, #mashpotato-gnome. However, we will be lacking in numbers of people to answer the multitudes of help. To sign up for the roster list for MashPotato, just come into #debian and type in "apt roster" for further details, and return over the next few days for more details. You don't need to be using Potato, but any Debian-based help provided will be greatly appreciated.

So if you've got any troubles whatsoever with Debian GNU/Linux, Potato or Woody, then hop into #debian or #mashpotato hosted on any IRC server that's part of the OpenProject IRC Network> and we'll be glad to help you.

MashPotato - Mobile Array of Support Helpers for Potato

Re:Excellent. When will woody freeze?

[joey]

The above post should be moderated up, and not just because it says nice things about me :-)

Anyway, we've discussed it less than you would expect so far. Common views include:

• We should get X 4, not wait for the kernel (which may not come out this year), and release then, probably as 2.1.1 or something.
  
• We should release with X 4 and the 2.4 kernel and an many updates as we can cram in
  
• Something else.
  

--

update

[joey]

So as an update to what Rob wrote, the Ddebian web site now says "2.2 released!" all over it, and an announcement has indeed been posted to our announce list. Press conference tomorrow at LinuxWorld. It's real, folks. :-)
--

Kernel 2.4 to affect potato?

[ablaze]

The next debian release will probably be stable before the 2.4 kernel comes out. Possibly autumn 2001? ;-)

Re:Ultimate sources.list for Debian - 6000 package

[CraigMcPherson]

There's a category of people at LNO that I find it absolutely impossible for me to get along with: humans. They just don't agree with me. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about running in to any of those at Slashdot.

But now that Potato is stable, I'll hopefully start pumping out my Debian NHF's within a week or so.

Re:Who needs ISO?

[Helge Hafting]

Come on. ISOs are immensely useful. For example, I can download an ISO at 100Mb/s at work, burn a cd, and avoid downloading the same stuff at 64kb/s at home. Faster and cheaper!

And you probably don't want those with hundreds of machines to download the distribution to each?

Re:Who needs ISO?

[Lion-O]

And you probably don't want those with hundreds of machines to download the distribution to each?

You don't have to, thats why I agree with the original poster. Just stack those .deb files in one big pile and point apt-get to it. OR use the nifty tool apt-move and create your own personalised installation CD.

XFree4.1 in deb format?...

[MadMax]

Has anyone seen XFree4.1 in deb format? I can finally build the

ULTIMATE SYSTEM!!!

-Madmax :)

Re:XFree4.1 in deb format?...

[MadMax]

make that 4.0.1

doh!

Re:XFree4.1 in deb format?...

[Utter]

You can check out this page:
http://www.debian.org/~branden/

But beware, this is not for general consumption. The deb-packages should only be used by people that otherwise would compile XFree-4 by themselves.

Linux Humor...

[pen]

Linux Humor: dpkg_1.4.0.35.deb

--

Re:I hope...

[pen]

Probably because most of what you actually consider "Linux" is actually GNU software. Without GNU, Linux is worthless. Besides the kernel, what else is there? LILO? While you could potentially install Emacs on Windows, Windows doesn't come with Emacs pre-installed. OTOH, most (if not all) Linux distributions come with a lot of GNU software preinstalled.

Heck, you use make and gcc to compile the kernel itself, and you use gnutar to extract the source. Chances are that the shell you use is from GNU. And so on...

It must be really late for me to reply to such an obvious troll... :)

--

Re:Where do I get my CD image?

[subreality]

As I posted elsewhere, I've shared an image of the first CD (The one you need to install) on gnutella; free for all, have fun with the bandwidth. (I got the image off debian's site last night before it got slashdotted.) Search for potato-i386-1.raw and you'll find it.

Have fun. :-)

--Kai
--slashsuckATvegaDOTfurDOTcom

FreeBSD is easy to install.

[cot]

I also find FreeBSD's installation procedure quite straightforward, and I am by no means an expert.

I certainly would say it's as easy to install as pre 6.x Redhat.

Anyways, don't be intimidated by FreeBSD, hell it's only time. Take an hour or two and give it a shot.

Once it's going, good God, the ports and packages are GREAT. Installing new software through one of these two methods works very well.

Re:Who needs ISO?

[erotus]

Well, I don't use debian but I have found ISO images to be great for backup, burning CD's for friends, or network installs... Yes that's right network installs. Just mount it with the loop option and you can browse any file on that CD. For those that don't know the command:

mount -o loop /isoimage.iso /mnt/mountpoint

This is great for ftp installs.... It doesnt work with NFS though.

Re:Who needs ISO?

[Phil Hands]

or often even better, simply set up a local squid cache, with a line like this in the /etc/squid.conf:

refresh_pattern debian.org/.*\.deb$ 129600 100% 129600

and point your hundreds of machines at the cache to get all the benefits of a local mirror, none of the admin overhead, and only downloading packages you actually use.

Use the mirrors. PSU's was incredibly fast.

[Wakko Warner]

I've already downloaded and burned all three ISO images. I got them at about 400K/s off PSU's mirror. You can get a list of all mirrors, most of which probably have the thing by now, here.

- A.P.
--

"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad

Actually...

[Chakotay]

That's a serial potato processor :)

)O(
Never underestimate the power of stupidity

Re:Ultimate sources.list for Debian - 6000 package

[ozzmosis]

forgot a few #ipv6 deb ftp://ftp.ipv6.nl/pub debian/ deb http://www.debian.org/~ajt/ipv6/ ipv6 unstable deb http://www.debian.org/~kitame/ipv6/ ipv6 unstabe #wine deb http://www.hungrycats.org/%7Edrunkard/debian drunkard main #evolution-email deb ftp://ftp.helixcode.com/helix/evolution/distributi ons/Debian/ .// #my stuff deb http://slaughter.necro.edu/~ahze/debian unstable main

Re:Ultimate sources.list for Debian - 6000 package

[ozzmosis]

pre might help =x deb http://slaughter.necro.edu/~ahze/debian unstable main #evolution-email #deb http://www.debian.org/~vincent/Incoming/ ./ deb ftp://ftp.helixcode.com/helix/evolution/distributi ons/Debian/ .// #deb-unoffical deb ftp://ntama.uni-mainz.de/pub/debian unofficial/ #deb ftp://ftp.freshmeat.net/pub/debs ./ #freshmeat doesnt have any yet.. but i emailed snoop and he said they are gonna put some up soon #wine deb http://www.hungrycats.org/%7Edrunkard/debian drunkard main #ipv6 deb ftp://ftp.ipv6.nl/pub debian/ deb http://www.debian.org/~ajt/ipv6/ ipv6 unstable deb http://www.debian.org/~kitame/ipv6/ ipv6 unstable

infrequent releases are a problem

[jetson123]

It's great that Debian 2.2 is out, and I appreciate all the testing that has gone into it. I also liked the package system and the installation on Debian 2.1. The floppy-based install is a real boon on oddball hardwawre.

But with the infrequent releases, Debian just became too outdated for me. Because I have some machines that don't have an Internet connection or only have a slow Internet connection, the latest official release on CD is sometimes the only thing I can install. I haven't found any "Debian packages up to last month" kind of CD distributions (if you know of any, please let me know).

Also, lack of interim version numbers means that Debian can be hard to use in an environment with many users who handle their own installations, yet want to share software: if you want to tell other people to bring up their machines to a known level to run some software, what are you going to tell them? If operating system releases are infrequent, the last numbered release is often too out of date.

I hope Debian will be able to stamp version numbers on interim releases, maybe every other month. This shouldn't involve any significant extra work, just a declaration "these packages are Debian 2.1.7". CD-ROM vendors can then burn those versions into CDs and ship them out, and everybody has a reference point. From my point of view, those interim releases don't have to be extensively tested: if there is some real problem with some release (which is probably rare), that will become widely known and people will avoid it.

Re:infrequent releases are a problem

[Gill Bates]

I haven't found any "Debian packages up to last month" kind of CD distributions (if you know of any, please let me know).

http://www.linux-cd.com/

Re:infrequent releases are a problem

[furukama]

Take a look at this site:
http://www.debian.org/distrib/vendors

There are lots of vendors that sell any kind of Debian CDs you want (unstable, updates and even custom-made CDs).

Am I missing something?

[Lion-O]

Everyone is talking about stable potato's. What ever happened to the "Joel 'Espy' Klecker" release (also peek at the Debian site? Is your memory (pointed at the posters in here who referred to Potato) really that short termed? Its not potato thats gone stable; its espy.

-Personal rant ON-
This makes me kinda sick. Even though I don't know Espy, never chatted with 'm and heard from him when he passed away, I really have a strange feeling after reading the /. story about his death and all the comments on it. Everyone sympathized yet no one is able to remeber the posting for even 1 month? Do a search on 'Espy' on this page and it turns out to nothing. Thats a strange way of showing that you sympathized with the going ons IMVHO.
-Personal rant OFF-

Re:Am I missing something?

[seth]

I go to the debian site and I see the top news story with the headline of " Debian GNU/Linux 2.2, the "Joel 'Espy' Klecker" release, is officially released". What would you have preferred? The Debian 2.2 release has always been known by the codename of potato, and it is dedicated to espy, but that doesn't entail it no longer being called potato.

Re:Am I missing something?

[Ramses0]

It is/was/will be the potato release. Always has been, always will be. However it was dedicated to the memory of Joel Espy Klecker. Very different thing.

--Robert

Re:Am I missing something?

[lordsutch]

What ever happened to the "Joel 'Espy' Klecker" release...?

It's not the Joel "Espy" Klecker release. It's Debian 2.2 (or "potato"), dedicated to Joel "Espy" Klecker. Always has been; always will be. The last paragraph of the release announcement mentions it; a dedication is burned on each official CD. However, it's not the name of the release.

(By analogy, the movie The Negotiator is dedicated to late actor J. T. Walsh. Nobody calls it "The J. T. Walsh Movie"; that's not its name.)

Australian mirror for ISO (and potato tree..)

[jason andrade]

The 2.2 (potato) release ISO images are being
updated on

ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/debian-cd/2.2_rev 0/
http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/debian-cd/2.2_re v0/

i386 and source images are done - m68k/sparc/alpha
updates are being worked on now. you'll find this server is unfortunately only accessible in Australia and New Zealand.

-jason

Why Debian if you don't want to set up a server?

[gasull]

Ok, there are gonna be alot of people bitching about how slow debian is on releases. Well, if you are gonna run a server, running the latest and greatest is a bad idea.

OK, but, then, if I don't want to set up a server, perhaps some commercial distros are better (and easier to install). My favorite one is Mandrake.

Time to buy some floppies.

[shippo]

I'm going to d/l the 16 or so floppy images and do a base floppy install, then apt-get whatever else takes my fancy.

Unfortunatly no-one in town seems to sell blank floppies any more! Even the local supermarket sells CD-Rs, but I don't have a CD-R drive or a fast network connection.

Re:Time to buy some floppies.

[Mawbid]

If you can somehow get the floppy images on a FAT partition on the machine you're going to install on, you can forgo the use of most of those floppies. I think you'll only need two. (This may be inaccurate; it's been a while since I've done this.) My two Debian installations were done with a lot less than 16 floppies. The only time I've used that many was for my first Slackware installation, way back when.
--

Re:Time to buy some floppies.

[__aawsxp7741]

Actually, if you have net access (which you'll need anyway for apt-get'ting other stuff), five floppies should be enough (rescue.bin, root.bin and driver-{1,2,3}.bin). These already contain ethernet and ppp drivers/programs, allowing you to fetch the rest via net. If you don't have any exotic network card, you might actually be able to do with the three floppies from images-1.44/compact or images-1.44/idepci.

FreeBSD - give it a try at least

[thallgren]

I think it's a bit naïve to expect the first install of a new operating system to finish without problems.

Give it a few tries, or do as I do, install a minimum system, and then add things whenever you feel a need for them.

Distributions that by default install zillions of stuff are worthless since you only get more confused, especially if you're new to the system.

I think you should give FreeBSD a try, it's well worth the time, even if you decide to stick with Red Hat.

Regards, Tommy - FreeBSD enthusiast

Re:Solaris bites with kimodo dragon teeth!

[Psiren]

Hmmm... does Linux support hot-swappable system boards? Does it scale well up to 64 processors? No and no. Comparing Solaris and Linux is a futile pastime. They came from different roots, and are meant for different jobs. Perhaps Solaris is a little slow on x86 machines, but Linux has the advantage that it has been developed specifcally on this architecturefor years. Most of Solaris's devlopment is geared toward running on high-end Sparc's, not lowly x86's.

A little behind

[IRNI]

At this rate a 2.4 version of debian will be out by 2049. Woo!

Re:A little behind

[kgasso]

... or you could be like redhat/mandrake/slackware/others and artifically inflate your version numbers.
--

Re:When...

[HSMade]

Guys, come on... don't u have something better to do beside this meaningless arguing?

Go nuke some windows users or so..

Embedded Debian

[Ripp]

A.K.A.

The Potato Chip

Sorry....couldn't resist that one....

HURD rocks!

[Karmageddon]

now that people are actually working on it Debian GNU/Hurd might be usuable in two years time.

Cool! HURD was a great idea. Though long-awaited, GNU/HURD will be terrific. And as soon as it's available, I've no doubt I'll be switching to RedHat/HURD :) That's what I love about Free software!

Re:HURD rocks!

[mikpos]

It is available. It's usable, though I can't get apt-get to work for some, and the application support is a bit limited.

Re:HURD rocks!

[Pflipp]

My uncle had a CD with GNU/ Hurd on it, from a LUG (actually it was a UUG). The CD also contained the latest Mandrake, BSD's etc. He was only interested in Mandrake, so he couldn't tell me much about GNU/ Hurd.

Could you inform me what the steps are to get a GNU/ Hurd (experimental) *distro*? Or doesn't such a thing yet exists (so has this UUG been fooling around with the CD's ISO themselves)?

Addittionaly, Debian has once made Debian/ FreeBSD. But I never see ISO's of that either. I don't really get that.

Off course there are experimental packages lying around, with installation instructions attached to them, but that's not what I am looking for (is also interesting, though). I only wonder if there is a simple CD-based distro of these variants of Debian.

It's... It's...

Re:HURD rocks!

[mikpos]

To my knowledge, there aren't any real CDs printed yet. Right now, you have to bootstrap from Linux. There are instructions at http://www.pick.ucam.org/~mcv21/hurd.html . Basically what you do is:

1. partition (if you put the Hurd and Linux on the same partition, things will get messed, because the Hurd does a lot of cool stuff with inodes to make changes persistent)
2. get dpkg and a bunch of .debs
3. "cross-install" the .debs onto the Hurd partition (there is a shell script for this)
4. make a GRUB bootdisk (BTW GRUB is by far the coolest x86 bootloader I've ever seen)

I suppose a CD would be nice (it would save quite a bit of download time if you're on dial-up), but, quite frankly, I don't think anyone would buy it :D

Re:HURD rocks!

[mckinlay]

This document walks you through the process of cross-installing from a Linux box. You can also find the debs in /dists/sid/main/binary-hurd-i386/ on your favourite ftp.debian.org mirror. As far as building stuff from source on HURD goes, it's pretty similar to building for BeOS - it provides what it has to, and doesn't provide a lot of what it doesn't (e.g., the MAX_PATH definition). According to the standards, it's perfectly within it's rights to do this and still be POSIX compliant - so you have to do a bit of filling-in-the-blanks when you're building stuff that expects these things to be there. Most packages that're autoconf'd tend to build fine, and there's a fair selection of binary packages in the Debian distribution.

Re:Who needs ISO?

[ultrabot]

Debian just like any other modern OS can install itself directly over the network. All you need is a couple of floppies. If you are a modem user you might have to use five floppies, but ISOs .. are just for morons ...

And the speed of one's net access is proportional to one's intelligence?

I can't download a Debianese amount of stuff to my home computer (bandwidth = 0 bytes/s optimally). Does that mean that I shouldn't use Debian at all?

However, there is a point. Debian seems to be an inferior distro for people who want to try lots of stuff and can't simply download it all. It's annoying that the only distro that is not "broken" (Mandrake 7.1 is broken, Red Hat is broken) is the one with lowest amount of bundled software. I think this is one of the decisive factors in the distro-selection, Debian is not "harder" to use/install than any other distro (apart from the fact that Debian [2.1] automatically starts xdm on boot - removing that is not obvious for a newbie).

Re:Who needs ISO?

[ASIO]

I must be a moron, I grab the ISO's when i'm at Linux user group meetings, and then bring them home to do the updates on the 3 other machines I have here. If I was to do that via the net connection I have at home (each machine uses a different variety of packages) I'd probably end up downloading about 200-300Mb of stuff. On my lousy connection (Sucks to live in Aust, no viable bandwidth solutions), that equals about 3 days of continious downloading. Pull your head out of your arse. Not everyone wants to do network installs, or has the capablility.

Bzzzzt, wrong

[On Lawn]

aside from ome ouside help the unstable doesn't have...

Xfree 4.0 (let alone 4.0.1)
A listing of available packages shows an embarrasing out-datedness. (I'm to tired to post them now and I have to get to work.) Nope and if ever there was a cathedral 'we're just the best becuase we are' set of developers sitting on their laurels its #debian-devel.

If it weren't for the utah-glx people, whomever is cool enough to run kde.tdyc.com, and the helix people it would be conidered 'dead' in my eyes. Meanwhile in #debian are people screaming 'I want to package XXXX but they aren't accepting new developers right now...'

Re:Bzzzzt, wrong

[Trepalium]

The maintainer for XF86 in Debian stated a long time ago that he would not support 4.0 due to the fact it didn't support enough of the legacy hardware that 3.3.6 did support, and that it was plagued with many problems in general. Since then, he's started work on getting 4.0.1 into Debian, and preliminary .debs are already available at http://www.debian.org/~branden/

And as for the elitist attitude, it's pretty common on IRC, especially after being pestered by morons who do not care to bother try finding the answer to their question themselves.

The reasons for KDE not being in Debian quite a while ago (the old "free vs free" arguement) and have mostly been resolved for KDE2, but KDE2 is still too unstable to even be in the woody "unstable" branch. They may make it in there yet, but KDE2 needs to ship first. KDE1 will probably never make it in. I'm surprised Helix Gnome hasn't made it into contrib on woody or even potato for that matter.

But honestly, Debian just seems ideal for a server -- unlike the other distros, it installs completely basic (not bare enough, IMO, but better than anyone else), and you add daemons afterwards. The APT system is wonderful for when you want a package installed, but don't want to have to mess around with vague dependancies -- it's what RPM should've been. Fancy GUIs are fine and dandy on a personal workstation, but on a server, they introduce unneeded complexity and potential for error.

Re:Bzzzzt, wrong

[On Lawn]

The fact that we have to depend on the Xfree maintainer (who I actualy like as a person from the conversations I've had with him) is a shame. One of the most untapped strengths of the .deb packaging is its ability to be contributed to by outsiders (like helix for example.)

I hear ghosts of the early days which developed the packaging system to incorprate even commercial entities who would like to have a way to package their products for debian. I remember seeing great lengths to encourage buisnesses to do so. Now a prevailing political attitude has become very exculsionary and elitist.

Remember Debian didn't start out as trying to be the icon of free development. Its getting mired in that pursuit right now. It started out to be a managable reference distribution that everyone could extend, a LSB that people would naturaly choose. But now the chefs are locked in the kitchen with no one wanting to supply the eggs that they'll use in a food fight rather than to make cake. And the chefs are ignoring that anyone can make a cake outside of their kitchen. The result? No cake. But more becuase people keep looking to the kitchen for food rather than make it themselves. I'm not blaming the chefs entirely on this one.

So what I'm saying is its not the packaging system's fault, its not the debian management scheme's fault. Its just the same thing organizations suffer from all around the world, they get to happy with the the way things are and entrench themselves in their own ideology, start drinking their own kool-aid, and stop living.

BTW, what ever happened to herring? maybe it was a little to open for them or maybe it was a little to open to work.

Re:Who needs ISO?

[Mr.Phil]

Sure it does, I've done it loads of times with Slackware NFS installs on computers that don't have cd-roms. Saves me the trouble of having to burn the cd and then nfs mount it.

Re:Solaris bites with kimodo dragon teeth!

[Jason Earl]

Hmmm... does Linux support hot-swappable system boards? Does it scale well up to 64 processors? No and no. Comparing Solaris and Linux is a futile pastime. They came from different roots, and are meant for different jobs. Perhaps Solaris is a little slow on x86 machines, but Linux has the advantage that it has been developed specifcally on this architecturefor years. Most of Solaris's devlopment is geared toward running on high-end Sparc's, not lowly x86's.

Which is why Solaris will continue to be used on the high end for a very long time. However, this does not change the fact that for most people Linux is faster.

This is not a slam on Solaris. Solaris has been tuned for hardware an order of magnitude more powerful than the one to four processor boxes where Linux shines.

When the put a 64 processor Sparc on my desk maybe then I will start to worry about how well Linux runs on it. In the meantime Linux will probably be my desktop and development system of choice :).

I lost my bet...

[kperrier]

I was betting that this would not come out before the 2.4 kernel was released. Oh, well, thats why I don't go to the track.... :)
Kent

Re:I hope...

[mindstrm]

Becuase.. windows doesn't, by default, use the GNU tools, wheras linux distros is almost exclusively built around gnu tools. Whether we like it or not, RMS has somewhat of a point. Somewhat.

If you removed all the GNU software from your box, it would be *useless*

Re:A rant

[Jason Earl]

You can install the necessary debs by hand. Check out man dpkg if you aren't sure how this works. Or you could do what I do and simply change the line in /etc/apt/sources.list to unstable long enough to:

apt-get install php4

This will get php4, and whatever other packages are necessary, and then you can switch back to stable.

Either way there is no sense building the packages by hand.

Debian install... ugh

[oznet]

I've been a long time Debian user. In fact it's the only distro I've stuck with from the beginning.

I have always loved Debian but this latest version is a PITA to install. Once Debian is running, it's lovely, but getting to that point is painful.

Previous versions did not seem to have the millions of "Do you want this?" and "Select the xxx" options. Potato seems to have too many friggin selection screens and pages of options to scroll through to install (even on the "simple" install). And even after all the selection and configuration setup, it gets errors during the install of the packages. This is just not good.

What I'd like to have is something like the *BSD installs. Those are the best I've seen (as far as free Unix-like systems). When you select packages to install you're limited to the basic 5 or so base components. After you install those, you install everything else you want (Gnome, etc) from ports (or wherever). FreeBSD is _so_ simple to install. There are only a few configuration/install screens and you're done. Of course, the *BSD installs are much lower level and not as fancy as the various Linux installers, but that's what I like.

Has anyone thought of making a "power user" version of Debian available? Something that only installs the core of the distro from a very small set of packages. Like "Base System", "X", "Games", "Development", etc. And in those packages are only the minimum components needed. For example, when I install "X", it only installs the X server and the various X utilities from the base XFree86 install. If I want to install Gnome or other utilities, then I'll go do my apt-get thing.

I still love Debian (I really like apt and the Debian packages) but having a simple Debian distro like that would make my life much better. :)

now that potato is out

[WormRunner]

It's officially time to upgrade to woody!

Re:now that potato is out

[qbwiz]

Actually, that was *exactly* what I was thinking of doing.

Karma Whores Take note

[Da Cr33p]

No links were given so it gives you the perfect change to stock up on karma by raiding your fav places folder for those mirror links :)

Well, on the plus side it protects them from the /. effect

Da Cr33p

Unstable stability?

[CoughDropAddict]

Could anyone report what kind of stability they get running Debian unstable? The Debian web page says: "This release is currently considered ``unstable''. That means that things will break if you run it. Woody isn't even a complete or functioning
system yet." However, I've heard people say that Debian's unstable is more stable than other dists main release...

--

Re:Unstable stability?

[David Greene]

I think what they means is that woody does not yet have all the packages necessary to completely install and run the system from scratch.

When people say unstable is more stable than other distributions, they usually mean that upgrading to unstable doesn't cause many problems. One has to start with a released version of the OS. For example, I recently installed Slink on a couple of machines and upgraded to Woody with apt.

And unstable is very stable. Any problems I have had were fixed within a couple of days, though they did involved some workarounds. For example modutils was broken a few days ago, which was kind of a pain to fix (had to compile a static kernel). It's still not completely correct, last I checked (couple of days ago).

--

Re:Unstable stability?

[V. Mole]

One more trick for a stable unstable: after getting updated to the unstable dist, put at least the following packages on hold, and only upgrade after the update has been in the archive for a few days without problems:

• (any kernel packages that you use)
• libc6
• dpkg
• apt
• perl (probably)

this should keep you out of the most destructive problems that might occur. You also ought to be at least scanning debian-devel.

Potato Rocks

[exa]

The best OS distribution on the face of the planet. I've been using potato for more than a year now, and it's proved to be the most complete development platform I've seen. Debian simply rocks.

So does this mean...

[bvmcg]

So does this mean that the Debian team has moved on to trying for a stable woody?

Re:So does this mean...

[cbwsdot]

This also means we can expect alot more "woody" jokes. I'll get us started, "Is that a woody in your pocket pc or are you just happy to see me?"

Re:I hope...

[talesout]

"Dont use that hippie crap, use Win2k, we have short hair!"

What, are they gonna hire Eric Cartman as primary FUDster?

It's all a bunch of hippie crap. You can use Win2K. Ah, screw you guys, I'm going home

I thought it was spelled "Potatoe"

[glanois]

EOM

Re:Time to buy a cdr

[cbwsdot]

they cost about $100 and are really usefull.

2.2.17preX kernels

[peter]

2.2.16 and before have a terrible VM subsystem. It is not buggy, per se, but it does some very non-optimal things. (I don't remember well enough to give any specific examples :( ). It isn't quite as random as 2.2.0 about killing off processes when it runs out of memory, but it's not great. AFAIK, the VM code was rewritten/fixed (using different algorithms, not just new code to do the same stuff) for 2.2.17. I was sitting with Rik van Riel (he gave me a Connectiva T-shirt :) and some other kernel hackers (from Connectiva and RedHat) before maddog's keynote at OLS, and they were discussing the situation. I mentioned that Debian was using 2.2.17pre, and nobody looked surprised or said it was a bad idea.

I wish I could get around to doing some kernel hacking, but I never get around to doing it. :(

#define X(x,y) x##y

WHY aren't there canonical CD images?

[Deven]

For a "release", this "build your own ISO image" concept is bizarre and really unhelpful. Why can't I download a canonical ISO image so I can just burn a clean CD with the "stable" release? Maybe the release is stable, but the CD images are not. I just looked at the .list files for two different copies of one of the new CD images from the list of official mirrors, and the list of files didn't match. (Strangely, the MD5SUM files gave the same checksums anyhow.)

How are we supposed to get CD images and know they're really final and correct? (Say what you will about Red Hat; their ISO images are easy to find and never in disagreement between different mirror sites that carry them.)

Re:WHY aren't there canonical CD images?

[freedman]

I've burned two Debian ISO images to CDR (on Debian 2.1) without any difficulty. The process is a little more involved, but Debian is clear in pointing out that they make use of rsync so as not to tax ISO servers when they already have port servers that can handle most of the load. You _ARE_ able to ensure that you have the canonical ISO images, since after the process is complete you can run md5sum on the actual finished ISO image and compare it to the published ISO image reference.

Considering that Debian is a non-profit, I think this isn't too much additional legwork to get an image.

-Dan

Re:Solaris bites with kimodo dragon teeth!

[Chmarr]

That's just trying to justify the software by pointing at the hardware. I agree that they were created for different tasks.

1. Linux wont run well on SMP sparc machines.

2. Solaris has lots of extra goodies that Linux doesnt have (such as support for hot-swap hardware, and some really nice volume management).

If you, as a user, need those things, plus the myriad others, then you're going to need to use a 'high-end' OS. But... I really cant see it justifying Solaris' poor performance on the low end machines. Sure, that might just mean that's not where Sunsoft's focus is, but that doesn't make it right.

If Sunsoft decided to put more effort into the nitty-gritty performance issues (like quite a few Linux folk seem to be doing now), then perhaps, yes, Solaris might be able to make a sizable dent in the Linux market by pushing it out for free. But right now, it's got no hope.

Debian and Python licensing

[joneshenry]

(The following was posted to debian-devel.)

I argue that Debian needs to clarify immediately with copyright holder CNRI the
licensing of Python 1.5.2--whether CNRI considers the 1.5.2 license to be valid and
whether CNRI intends for 1.5.2 to be distributed with that license.

1) It's the safe and prudent thing to do.

The copyright files in Python 1.5.2 list Guido van Rossum as the author, but he had
signed over copyright to CNRI when he started working for them.(1) The copyright files
only list the dates 1991-1995, a decision http://www.python.org/doc/Copyright.html
says was "deliberate", and do not list CNRI as the copyright holder. Guido's
announcement of 1.6b1 includes the phrases "never placed a CNRI-specific license on the
software" and "clarify the licensing".(2)

Tim Peters has said "CNRI claims that the existing (CWI) Python license isn't a valid
license, and while that claim makes little sense to me I'm not a lawyer"(3) and
speculated "If CNRI claims they released software without a valid license, the legality
of using 1.5.2 and 1.6a2 is muddy... Since it seems very unlikely they'll agree to say that
the CWI license is valid, perhaps they could be persuaded to promise not to press any
claims based on the presumed invalidity of the CWI license excepting claims against BeOpen
PythonLabs."(4)

Guido van Rossum's announcements and Tim Peters postings could hardly have been
made in a more public manner, in Python's mailing lists and in Usenet's comp.lang.python.
I posted pointers and quotes to debian-legal about a week ago. Debian has said in the
past that releases are not made on a set schedule, they are made when the distribution
is "ready".

CNRI's opinion on these questions is simply unknown. Tim Peters has consistently
been advising in public writings that the copyright holder CNRI needs to be asked.

2) It's the right thing to do.

A policy of always asking the copyright holder when there is any doubt about the
intent of licensing builds trust between Debian and software creators and trust
between Debian and users. Debian's stance on including KDE was made despite the
extreme unlikelihood of any copyright holder suing Debian and despite other distributions'
judgment. Now we have a situation where the copyright holder CNRI has finished
detailed negotiations "to clarify the licensing" with BeOpen over a new license
for Python 1.6b1.

The license included with Python 1.5.2 states that: "Permission to use, copy,
modify, and distribute this software and its documentation for any purpose and without
fee is hereby granted" subject to certain easily met conditions such as retention of
original copyright notices. Yet Tim Peters has written: "The gripe here was that,
since they didn't believe the CWI license was valid, they-- as the copyright
holder --didn't believe we had the right to release a derivative work without a license
they *liked*. As things turned out, it appears the only license they like is the
one they wrote."(5) Now the context of what Tim was talking about was that BeOpen,
Guido van Rossum's new employer, wanted to cleanly get permission from CNRI, Guido van
Rossum's former employer, to avoid any chance of a lawsuit. The copyright holder
CNRI needs to be asked for the users' sake, so that users can know that the license of
software distributed by Debian truthfully reflects the will of the copyright holder.

(1) From: "Tim Peters" tim_one@email.msn.com
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: RE: Questions for Tim Peters
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 02:12:02 -0400
Message-ID: LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKELKGNAA.tim_one@email.msn.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python

(2) From: Guido van Rossum guido@beopen.com
Subject: Python 1.6b1 is released!
Date: 05 Aug 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: cpog381l62.fsf@cj20424-a.reston1.va.home.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python

(3) From: "Tim Peters" tim_one@email.msn.com
To: "Greg Ewing" see@my.signature
Cc: python-list@python.org
Subject: RE: The State of Python
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:50:53 -0400
Message-ID: LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCOEBCGNAA.tim_one@email.msn.com

(4) From: "Tim Peters" tim_one@email.msn.com
To: python-list@python.org, "Guido van Rossum" guido@python.org
Subject: RE: Questions for Guido van Rossum (Was: ...Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 22:25:23 -0400
Message-ID: LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCKEDCGOAA.tim_one@email.msn.com

(5) From: "Tim Peters" tim_one@email.msn.com
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: RE: Questions for Guido van Rossum
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 02:14:24 -0400
Message-ID: LNBBLJKPBEHFEDALKOLCEEEBGOAA.tim_one@email.msn.com

Sincerely yours,
Henry Jones

Re:Mod parent UP!!!

[rob1imo]

Speaking of parents, I hear your mom is pretty good. You know what they say... more cushion for the pushin'!!!

--

test

[MattBaggins]

this has been a test of the emergency broadcast system

Re:test

[MattBaggins]

2nd test

Re:Mod parent UP!!!

[rob1imo]

I was kind of wondering why she wasn't getting into it. Most chicks get really hot after you shit in their mouth and give them a golden shower.

--

WooHooo!!!!!!!

[Rogain]

Wooo hooo!!!!

P.S. fag letter counting script wont let me put in enough o's to properly express my self about Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 going stable!!!!

Re:Holy shit

[The_Messenger]

Right on.

---------///----------
All generalizations are false.

Re:Solaris bites with kimodo dragon teeth!

[The_Messenger]

When the put a 64 processor Sparc on my desk maybe then I will start to worry about how well Linux runs on it.

Damn. You have a pretty fucking big desk.

---------///----------
All generalizations are false.

Re:Solaris bites with kimodo dragon teeth!

[The_Messenger]

Oh, no no no no no... mustn't flame... mustn't flame... *head explodes*

---------///----------
All generalizations are false.