More importantly, it is the secret nature of the list which is bad. The most important part of an Open Source organisation is that information is free. Here
they are trying to make it secret.
Agreed; this is a problem, but for another reason as well: this eliminates a certain amount of liability for making mistakes.
Closed source software vendors are often more careless in the development of their products than open source vendors, knowing that there is less a chance that a vulnerability will become publicized (benefit of obscured code). The more public attention (via open mailing lists, open code, etc) there is, the more careful the programmers and QA teams must be, to avoid damaging their reputation (benefit of shared code/information).
I suspect this class division (trusted groups vs. the rest of the world) lessens the potential damage a serious security flaw could cause, which may in turn lower release quality.
Patents aren't supposed to benefit society, they are supposed to benefit the patent holder and provide incentive for people/companies to spend money
and time inventing things.
Then I vote that the patent system be dismantled. After all, if the system doesn't benefit me, why would I vote for its continued existence?
It seems JonKatz
really does believe that a lack of Net access and RPG gaming (?!?) is solely responsible for poor children's low education scores and their inability to
break into higher-income jobs when they reach adulthood -- as if an Internet connection to Slashdot and a copy of 'Everquest' would be able to liberate
the poor, downtrodden inner-city masses from their shackles of poverty in one fell swoop.
Hmm.
I'm not sure what to make of this. A part of me is thinking that Jon has a point, and this is just an exaggeration of the point.
I can only speak for myself, but computers gave me important access to human thought. It developed my logic skills, my communication skills, my emotion, and my knowledge more than anything else in my life. I have done nothing these past five or ten years but read arguments, source code, and stories. I can't speak to other sources for these things, because I wasn't privy to them. But what I can say is that to me, computers are more than tools - they are monolithic sources of enlightment, if used to their full extent.
I think Jon was thinking of the case where the kids have a hope in developing - but can't realize it specifically because they can't communicate with the right people. Human thought - the human voice - is the most important thing in developing one's self, and computers (and the Internet) are a remarkable gateway.
You lost me there. If someone is so weak-willed that knowledge of a concept can significantly affect their ethics, they're dangerous for that reason alone. I tend to put more faith in people, myself.
Why do you refer to chemical reactions? Do the theories of chemistry seem more 'real' to you than experinces which you can have directly?
I don't understand what you mean. I was referring to the chemical reactions which take place in the brain when exposed to a particular stimulus. In this, I hope to convey the thought that it is something not influencable by one's congnitive process. I don't see how experience - that is, a collection of memories - can have any influence on the chemical reaction I'm referring to. They operate at different levels.. and shouldn't be confused with each other.
If I seem picky, it is because I believe it is important to think clearly about these things, and to use the right words, so that we, as a collective body, can think clearly about them as well.
You don't seem picky, you seem confused.
I chose to express my thought in the manner I did so that I could cleverly condense two thoughts - one, answering to the question posed by the original poster, and two, suggesting that being a chemical reaction, it is beyond the mental control of one's self. I thought I did a good job.. apparently not.:)
I think technology is about to give us a passport to enter a moral, experiential and psychological wilderness. (If you think about it the way I do, then this case is only the very beggining.)
Agreed. If it weren't for technology, you and I wouldn't be able to anonymously have this interesting exchange.:)
Technology will allow people to question traditional thought without suffering the traditional consequences.
It is in order to navigate this wilderness that I believe it is so important to think clearly.
No one wants to ban bitstrings. The images themselves are harmless. People simply want to ban the associated chemical reactions in the brains of certain people. It's the thought that's "wrong," not the image.
Hmm.. it's interesting. I was just thinking to myself: he may be right. As in, it is possible that his statement that technology isn't the answer to everything is correct.
Then I thought.. I don't care. I believe technology is the answer to everything, so much so, that I will let it destroy me before I turn my back on it. I will blindly, or otherwise, let myself die for technology, before I accept that it isn't the one thing we must push forward as a society. It is my purpose in life.
If someone else can help me out, I would be glad to hear it.
Well, I'll offer you my argument, but I doubt it'll be what you expect.:)
Oh so often I hear that phrase "if i'm not a criminal, I have nothing to hide; therefore, monitoring is fine by me." My issue is this: what if you are a criminal?
What if you do have something to hide?
As a criminal, I need to be able to cover my tracks, lest I be arrested. For example, I want to watch DVDs on Linux, but I can't do it legally, anymore. As a generally intelligent, and moral (as in - I don't do things that hurt other people, unless they, within reason, have provoked such a response) human being, I don't think that breaking the encryption on a DVD I've purchased is wrong, so I violate the law. I need to be able to conceal this crime, or I can't get away with it.
How about when I smoke weed? If the government were allowed to put weed smoke detectors in my house, I would get caught when I did it. That sucks.
What about (if you'll excuse my crudeness) eating out my girlfriend in Virginia? 5-20 years for that one. In order to stay a productive member of society, and not attend a federal institution, I have to not allow the government to monitor my activities at home.
Folks, I'm worried about losing my ability to safely commit minor crimes. In this day and age, there are so many bad laws created by religious fools, corporate sponsorship, and plain old misunderstandings, that we often cannot reasonably obey the law. A line must be drawn in a balanced position between the rights of the governing agency, and the rights of the citizen.
I'm serious, if we could pull off a system like that, the rest of the ISPs out there would have to take notice when 1/2 of their broadband client's switch over.
Hah!
Do you have any idea how frightfully outnumbered we are? If every (seriously) technically competent dsl user dropped off the world completely, I doubt they would even notice.
Why would I want to go for expensive Sun equipment when I seem to get better value with x86 hardware?
I'll take a quick stab at this.
I don't know the specifics of your business, but what happens if you experience a sudden surge of growth? Say, your business guys manage to secure a massive round of financing, or you sign a big contract... or maybe your product starts selling exceptionally well. All of the sudden, you find your data set growing exponentially.
Sure, you upgrade the box. Now it's a giant 4-way PC with 4GB ram, and a 10-spindle disk array. That holds out for another a few weeks. But it's just not enough. Queries keep rolling in.. some of them never come back out. Strange things start happening.. the server begins to thrash day and night. But, there's more data!
Add another box? Okay, you begin to horizontally scale your environment. More PCs, more software licenses, more monitors, more people, more network infrastructure, and air conditioning (don't forget to call that contractor!), etc. Pretty soon, your costs start to spiral out of control. You have your people working 24/7 to distribute your database. If it weren't for the damned server instability...
More data. Lots of it. Hundreds upon hundreds of megabytes of data. Your sales VP drops by to ask why he can't access the database for the third time today. You know, we got 539 new customers this week. And, when were we rolling out that new web front end again?
(Excuse the drama..:)
You give up. After spending ten times what it would have cost to do it right from the beginning, you start the long task of porting your applications and data to a Unix platform. Now you understand scalability.
Next lessons - availability, security, and support.
Side note for the/390 guys out there - isn't it ironic to hear these arguments from a Unix user?:)
No, I just really want Veritas Netbackup, a solid firewall-1, and a real nfs server on my network. I'd also like to try Solaris 8's new LDAP support. The best, most productive practice time for me is 8-11pm, in the comfort of my home.:)
One target market where this might do unbelievably well in is the ASP space, where this could live on an ethernet storage network. Luckily, it even has a second port.
I'm completely blown away that Sun have done this.
I'm with ya there. I had to reread their page a few times before I let myself believe. I was waiting to see *disk/cpu not included or something.
After reading the specs though, I'm totally in awe. What it really means to me is that I can finally have a decent (rackmount!) sparc box at home (for cheaper than a PC!). Yes!
It amazes me how frequently people do this. Recently, (where I work) I helped conduct a move to a new building. I was in charge of the server room.
I estimated (using UPS logs and growth prediction) the power requirements over the next year (assuming we doubled equipment and wanted some overload capacity) around 12-16kVA. A contractor they hired had a different idea. He went from box to box reading and adding up the maximum load specs from each power supply, and came up with a ridiculous figure. We settled on a 36kVA UPS.
Needless to say, we're using just over 10% of its capacity, with absolutely everything online.
Sounds like a good reason to me to not allow corporations determine our laws.
Like we needed another.
Seriously frightening when aggravated sexual assault (think - that's raping and maiming or attacking with a weapon another human being) carries about the same maximum sentence as a serious copyright infringement.
But that also depends on your perspective. To a corporate chairman or major investor, a few people dead on the highways due to unsafe vehicles would seem insignificant next to the death of their web site.
Slashdot Mirror
Agreed; this is a problem, but for another reason as well: this eliminates a certain amount of liability for making mistakes.
Closed source software vendors are often more careless in the development of their products than open source vendors, knowing that there is less a chance that a vulnerability will become publicized (benefit of obscured code). The more public attention (via open mailing lists, open code, etc) there is, the more careful the programmers and QA teams must be, to avoid damaging their reputation (benefit of shared code/information).
I suspect this class division (trusted groups vs. the rest of the world) lessens the potential damage a serious security flaw could cause, which may in turn lower release quality.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
--
All men are great
before declaring war
Then I vote that the patent system be dismantled. After all, if the system doesn't benefit me, why would I vote for its continued existence?
--
All men are great
before declaring war
From the article.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
Hmm.
I'm not sure what to make of this. A part of me is thinking that Jon has a point, and this is just an exaggeration of the point.
I can only speak for myself, but computers gave me important access to human thought. It developed my logic skills, my communication skills, my emotion, and my knowledge more than anything else in my life. I have done nothing these past five or ten years but read arguments, source code, and stories. I can't speak to other sources for these things, because I wasn't privy to them. But what I can say is that to me, computers are more than tools - they are monolithic sources of enlightment, if used to their full extent.
I think Jon was thinking of the case where the kids have a hope in developing - but can't realize it specifically because they can't communicate with the right people. Human thought - the human voice - is the most important thing in developing one's self, and computers (and the Internet) are a remarkable gateway.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
You lost me there. If someone is so weak-willed that knowledge of a concept can significantly affect their ethics, they're dangerous for that reason alone. I tend to put more faith in people, myself.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
I don't understand what you mean. I was referring to the chemical reactions which take place in the brain when exposed to a particular stimulus. In this, I hope to convey the thought that it is something not influencable by one's congnitive process. I don't see how experience - that is, a collection of memories - can have any influence on the chemical reaction I'm referring to. They operate at different levels.. and shouldn't be confused with each other.
If I seem picky, it is because I believe it is important to think clearly about these things, and to use the right words, so that we, as a collective body, can think clearly about them as well.
You don't seem picky, you seem confused.
I chose to express my thought in the manner I did so that I could cleverly condense two thoughts - one, answering to the question posed by the original poster, and two, suggesting that being a chemical reaction, it is beyond the mental control of one's self. I thought I did a good job.. apparently not. :)
I think technology is about to give us a passport to enter a moral, experiential and psychological wilderness. (If you think about it the way I do, then this case is only the very beggining.)
Agreed. If it weren't for technology, you and I wouldn't be able to anonymously have this interesting exchange. :)
Technology will allow people to question traditional thought without suffering the traditional consequences.
It is in order to navigate this wilderness that I believe it is so important to think clearly.
Agreed.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
I think you've proven this point, at least.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
--
All men are great
before declaring war
Then I thought.. I don't care. I believe technology is the answer to everything, so much so, that I will let it destroy me before I turn my back on it. I will blindly, or otherwise, let myself die for technology, before I accept that it isn't the one thing we must push forward as a society. It is my purpose in life.
Sounds awfully religious. Hrm.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
Well, I'll offer you my argument, but I doubt it'll be what you expect. :)
Oh so often I hear that phrase "if i'm not a criminal, I have nothing to hide; therefore, monitoring is fine by me." My issue is this: what if you are a criminal?
What if you do have something to hide?
As a criminal, I need to be able to cover my tracks, lest I be arrested. For example, I want to watch DVDs on Linux, but I can't do it legally, anymore. As a generally intelligent, and moral (as in - I don't do things that hurt other people, unless they, within reason, have provoked such a response) human being, I don't think that breaking the encryption on a DVD I've purchased is wrong, so I violate the law. I need to be able to conceal this crime, or I can't get away with it.
How about when I smoke weed? If the government were allowed to put weed smoke detectors in my house, I would get caught when I did it. That sucks.
What about (if you'll excuse my crudeness) eating out my girlfriend in Virginia? 5-20 years for that one. In order to stay a productive member of society, and not attend a federal institution, I have to not allow the government to monitor my activities at home.
Folks, I'm worried about losing my ability to safely commit minor crimes. In this day and age, there are so many bad laws created by religious fools, corporate sponsorship, and plain old misunderstandings, that we often cannot reasonably obey the law. A line must be drawn in a balanced position between the rights of the governing agency, and the rights of the citizen.
My $0.02.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
Hah!
Do you have any idea how frightfully outnumbered we are? If every (seriously) technically competent dsl user dropped off the world completely, I doubt they would even notice.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
Hint: your boss doesn't.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
--
All men are great
before declaring war
I'll take a quick stab at this.
I don't know the specifics of your business, but what happens if you experience a sudden surge of growth? Say, your business guys manage to secure a massive round of financing, or you sign a big contract... or maybe your product starts selling exceptionally well. All of the sudden, you find your data set growing exponentially.
Sure, you upgrade the box. Now it's a giant 4-way PC with 4GB ram, and a 10-spindle disk array. That holds out for another a few weeks. But it's just not enough. Queries keep rolling in.. some of them never come back out. Strange things start happening.. the server begins to thrash day and night. But, there's more data!
Add another box? Okay, you begin to horizontally scale your environment. More PCs, more software licenses, more monitors, more people, more network infrastructure, and air conditioning (don't forget to call that contractor!), etc. Pretty soon, your costs start to spiral out of control. You have your people working 24/7 to distribute your database. If it weren't for the damned server instability...
More data. Lots of it. Hundreds upon hundreds of megabytes of data. Your sales VP drops by to ask why he can't access the database for the third time today. You know, we got 539 new customers this week. And, when were we rolling out that new web front end again?
(Excuse the drama.. :)
You give up. After spending ten times what it would have cost to do it right from the beginning, you start the long task of porting your applications and data to a Unix platform. Now you understand scalability.
Next lessons - availability, security, and support.
Side note for the /390 guys out there - isn't it ironic to hear these arguments from a Unix user? :)
--
All men are great
before declaring war
No, I just really want Veritas Netbackup, a solid firewall-1, and a real nfs server on my network. I'd also like to try Solaris 8's new LDAP support. The best, most productive practice time for me is 8-11pm, in the comfort of my home. :)
--
All men are great
before declaring war
I can't wait till these things go GA.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
I'm with ya there. I had to reread their page a few times before I let myself believe. I was waiting to see *disk/cpu not included or something.
After reading the specs though, I'm totally in awe. What it really means to me is that I can finally have a decent (rackmount!) sparc box at home (for cheaper than a PC!). Yes!
--
All men are great
before declaring war
--
All men are great
before declaring war
I estimated (using UPS logs and growth prediction) the power requirements over the next year (assuming we doubled equipment and wanted some overload capacity) around 12-16kVA. A contractor they hired had a different idea. He went from box to box reading and adding up the maximum load specs from each power supply, and came up with a ridiculous figure. We settled on a 36kVA UPS.
Needless to say, we're using just over 10% of its capacity, with absolutely everything online.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
--
All men are great
before declaring war
Fear not; most of the concepts have prior art dating back 30 years.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
That's precisely how I came to part with $30 for The Cluetrain Manifesto. Great book, by the way.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
Like we needed another.
Seriously frightening when aggravated sexual assault (think - that's raping and maiming or attacking with a weapon another human being) carries about the same maximum sentence as a serious copyright infringement.
--
All men are great
before declaring war
But that also depends on your perspective. To a corporate chairman or major investor, a few people dead on the highways due to unsafe vehicles would seem insignificant next to the death of their web site.
--
All men are great
before declaring war