While corporate computing needs are never satisfied by todays fastest machines, for the bulk of small businesses and homes, at what point have we reached overkill? I mean look at Windows 3.1 compared to XP. Besides the web browser and related stuff (Media Player, etc) what has really changed? I mean - what is it USED for? Most people use them for Games, Personal Finance, Letter writing, general record keeping, etc. Think about the programs most people use on a regular basis. Web browser, Office suite, finance package, MP3 player, etc.
All microsoft and other OS developers seem to be able to do is add lots of features that never REALLY get used and a few that do make high impact improvements. But do smart tags, the start menu, right click context menus, etc really require massive improvements in processor speed?
I can't help but think that Win2K on my Pent III 700 laptop is using the bulk of the resources just to RUN vs the load placed on it by any apps I'm using. That seems to make no sense.
So that begs the question. The whole idea of Linux from teh start was a free Unix that ran well on OLDER (cheaper - widely available) PCs. Even today that is still true. So if LInux continues to be accepted and moves into teh desktop mainstream someday - will that effect the push on PC technology?
Its striking that for less than an Apple I in 1977, I built a 1GHz Athlon server with the latest gadgets (SCSI RAID, LCD monitored drive sleds, PC133 SDRAM, etc) A PC with this much power is staggering - even compared to boxen from a year or two ago. But do I really NEED that much power? Not really, CPU wise, but it didn't make sense ot save $20 and get 200 less MHz when AMD, at the time was selling the 1GHZ athlon as the SLOWEST CPU.
We all know that no matter what Intel & AMD come up with, Micro$oft can overload it with a bloated OS upgrade that gains you squat. But in teh world or real OSes that treat system resources as something to be used scarcely, when will enough PC power be engouh for the bulk of the users (corporate flunkies, personal PCs, and small businesses?) When will we see a split in what is used for servers vs what is used in desktop PCs? Today, the latest CPUs are showing up in desktops almost at the same time they go into servers (Xeon excluded, but even there its getting more blurry)
Just like always it'll be amazing to see where we are 5 years from now, but I just can't imagine I'll be using a 3GHz desktop PC running RedHat 12.x that probably cost me $1000:) It boggles the mind much more than the limits physics places on signal transmission on teh dies....:)
Its a neat little box, but it is not cheap! The barebones system (Celeron 700 128MB, 10GB HD, CD, Win ME) was like $1300! The top level box 1GHz PIII, 256MB, 30GB HD, DVD Rom, WIn 2K Pro) was almost $1900!
I realize its a really small box - no question and packs a lot into a small space, but for substandard video and sound it seems a bit over priced. I mean the Beowulf cluster alone would cost more than a car:):)
But seriously, cool box but a bit pricey for my tastes. I'll take my butt ugly !GHz Athlon beige box anyday (cause it has LCD displays on each SCSI drive - and like the review said LCDs are just too cool:):) )
Man does that bring them back - what an excellent site and its not even/.ed yet! Lots of cool pictures of what REAL computers used to look like:) Don't get me wrong I love tinkering with my 1GHz Athlon server - but there is tinkering (kernel settings) and then there is the smell of rosin core solder!
Yeah and people who pay by the piund to have their trash picked up have to pay to have all the junk mail hauled away but it is still legal.
The bigger issue here is how certain congressmen (and women) feel opt-out is the way to go for PRIVACY - i.e. credit card companies selling detailed info about you. Remember all those inane privacy notices that showed up all at once in teh mail from your banks and credit card companies? Well they were heavily disguised opt-out notices. Most folks (myself included since they looked like junk mail) threw them out and thus have given permission for all their info to be sold. The hell with SPAM, I can filter it and thanks to ORBS, etc, plus a decent mail filter I get maybe a handful a day, maybe - easily managed.
But the selling of my personal data like medical history, credit information, etc - screw that. I want that info PROTECTED and only released if I SAY SO!
Why does everybody think households worldwide are just DYING to shell out even MORE moeny for media? I mean come on! We already pay $50/month for cable/satellite, $30/month for Internet access. Why does eveyrone think folks are going to shell out more sizable dollars on reruns and stuff? Video on demand and all this interactive TV BS is a fad and unless its priced to a level folks don't care (say $1 maybe) it won't work and if it is priced that low and they try to convince you they'll 'Make it up on volume' lookup dot.com bubble.
Lets be realistic here, is this really going to happen? Microsoft sure thinks so but maybe they're going to have another massive project blow up in their face (remember Bob?)
The money is NOT with personal PCs - hell half are using pirated software anyway! Its the business customers. Well, do you think any IT Director with half a brain is going to suggest letting Microsoft a) handle authentication to their sensitive data nad b) allow that data to be stored @ microsoft? I didn't think so. Plus can you imagine the strain on the already overloaded internet pipes of most major companies? Same goes for personal users - till that last mile is fiber - well.NET will just be too slow.
Now MS may make $$$ selling a.NET type package that runs on internal corporate PCs, but ala samba, we'll just emulate it was necessary while adhering to whatever standard comes out of all this.
Personally, I agree with teh author one one point - the NC got shafted. From a corporate view it was an AWESOME idea. Having maanged PC deployments and disk images, etc it was awful. Being able to toss a cokie cutter box onto the network, hit power and it boots up based on serial # and user config - what a dream - too bad nobody could make it work right:(
Yeah or have a web front end to just select it. But WTF (w being why not what!) would you want to sit down at your computer to change the channel on your TV?:)
I've been in home automation foy quite a few years and I chuckle at how everyone wants to converge everythign together into one box. Screw that - give me a decent open protocol standard that I can connect all my stuff to so it can be controlle dcentrally. That's nivarna.
Have you ever noticed how you STILL cannot get A/V equipment to talk to each other? Every manufacturer has their own control linkup setup - so the result? Universal remotes for everyone. Can you imagine having RS-232 ports on all yoru A/V gear with simple control commands? Now whats stopping them from tossing in USB? Set your Tivo recorded via your PC using a web browser 1000 miles away.
But there isn't money to be made doing it so nobody wants to do it. SO we're stuck with stopgap measures at best. Hell in the home automation market, most serious setups use RS-485 to connect various control devices located hundreds of feet from teh controller and there STILL isn't an agreed upon standard. CEBus is still a joke - its so expensive and complicated only the super expensive setups have it.
Its a tough call - but I'll take multi-vendor boxen connected together via a standard vs an all in one solution ANY day.
Its stories like these that make you realize others have bigger troubles than you. Here I was depressed because I might lose my house after being dot bombed for months, but that pales in comparison to having to part with the first ever Dragon's Lair arcade game. He has my condolances. Maybe if we all donate some cash to him he can hang on to this priceless treasure!
:) Seriously - now I can tell my wife I finally found an antique I actually want for the house! And at $25K its a steal!
Man you hit it RIGHT on. I could care less about dependencies in Linux since the package managers are getting very advanced. However, the thing that drives me nuts about Windows is when new DLLs are munged just enough to break older apps. IN Linux, the developers SEEM to care much more about backward compatability - I cannot recall having older apps break which upgrading a package - I'm sure its happened to others, but from where I stand, I'll take GNUCash 1.6 with 60 libs anyday over MS Money on Windoze which is so network bloated you can't even use it with a remote money file over a wireless link! Unreal!
Maybe I'm confused. The UCITA does limit suits in some means but doesn't it also BROADEN the potential pool of companies and people to sue? You'd think they'd love that:)
But anytime the lawyers are on your side opposing something you oppose - well, it sure makes me nervous!
Nice to see the USPTO making an effort to improve things. I for one will be submitting my comments ASAP. Here's hoping they will a) listen and b) take proactive steps to improve a process we all know is broken.
WHat you say is true in many places, but I have to admit, not everywhere. I happen to live in teh sticks and I mean the sticks. We have a mom & pop phone company that got bought by a company that specializes in owning mom & pops. They deployed DSL in many flavors. I got it from day one and have never been happier.
The DSL line hardly EVER goes down (unlike my friends RoadRunner service), when I had bandwidth issues after a recent storm , it was fixed in a day. I run 40 domains through my SDSL pipe (legally - they aren't as anal as other providers) and it has been great.
So YMMV, but it seems DSL from smaller providers may work better, because everytime I hear someone complain about DSL , its from a big provider or ISP having to go through a big provider/telco:)
So from my standpoint, DSL rocks and is an incredible way to get onto the internet, IF your provider knows what they are doing.... I mean I can get 1.1MBps SDSL (down AND up) for $450/month when a T1 can cost you $1500/mo or more. Its a great (and fairly inexpesnive) technology and look out when the newer stuff comes out.... Amazing what they cram down 2 wires!
My knee jerk reaction would be to blame Verizon. Remember, the baby bells have quite a checkered history - anyone who's lived through one of theie union strikes knows how nasty things can get and how destructive they can be. SLashed pay phone cords, taking phones off hook all over the city, cutting a few pairs inside thousand pair bundles, etc, etc
Is Verizon pushing bad lines on Covad on purpose at teh highest levels? I doubt it. But could it be happening at a lower level - I'm sure of it.
All it takes is a union supervisor telling his union lackeys that Covad & other non telco companies threaten their jobs and to remember that when they install the lines for COvad to use - I'm sure many would be unusable. You'd be surpised how often stuff like this happens.
Why is it the job of the University to ensure student machines are virus free
Well, considering how many viruses there are that can turn a machine into a zombie (or help do it), its a good pursuit. University PCs are prime targets of DDoS hackers given the bandwidth these systems have available. Its not gonna be perfect, but it helps keep the thousands of student machines somewhat inoculated against script kiddies. Course if they don't get their virus in they'll take control of the machine some other way. But you gotta do something/start somewhere!
I'm with you on this one. I personally would LIKE ot see ads for stuff I'm interested in (like stuff from ThinkGeek:) ). Same goes for banner ads. I can't stand popups due to the annoyance factor, but I'm happy when sites try to tailor the ads to my tastes. Hell if I have to have ads on the site, might as well have them possibly be interesting to me.
I always laugh about people freaking about sites trying to match ads to consumer bowsing habits. Sure, it means they might know I spend 24 hours a day at ninenine.com:) but that the price you pay;)
Now before you privacy zealots get your panties in a wad - I'm not saying I want no privacy. Its just that to me, a company with my browsing habits via cookie is not a huge deal and actually provides me with some potential benefit. Same goes for TV. I'd love the advertisers to know it was me watching TV - then they could play Victoria Secret commercials for the whole time I'm watching! BONUS!
Though many frown on it - if Java will fit your needs, Sun has an excellent IDE called Forte - very powerful program and they have a free version available. See http://java.sun.com/.
However I think it is the right of the owner of a website to choose what is and what isn't advertised on their websites
Read the story before posting FUD! The problem is they denied them ads on the CABLE networks of Time Warner. In many placces, Time Warner is the ONLY cable game in town. So they are a monopoly and they are using that monopoly to benefit OTHER parts of their business - namely Road Runner.
So this IS a problem that we all should be concerned about - should companies in a monopoly position in business A (cable TV here) be able to shut out competitors in business B (DSL/ISP) by denying them access to advertising in Business A - the monopoly.
No way - thats why these huge mergers bring up such troublesome issues - it is too easy to squash the competition, often with teh gov'ts help (grants to extend cable into rural areas, etc, etc)
AOL/Time Warner is within their rights to refuse advertising. They can do business or not do business with whomever they please.
True, but this is exactly why the gov't worries about placing TOO much broadcasting power in the hands of one company. The idea being if one comapny won't show advertising from Company A, another broadcaster will. But when you have companies owning a large percentage of the channels sent to viewers, you limit access to those viewers and you limit what they see - at the whim of the owning company.
Sadly - AOl knows they'll get away with it cause the small fry don't have the resources to fight it - the big guys do so they let their ads on.
So for all you free market types out there who never met a merger you didn't like - just wait till all US internet access requires the installation of AOL 12.0!
For v1.0 - this is quite impressive. I chuckle to think how badly we could have used a system like this at my old job. We had numerous systems handling all sorts of directories and dozens of people hacking tools together to get them to talk to each other in a limited way. Its nice o see someone try to link it all together.
Hopefully I'll be in a position again where my company is looking to simplify their directory life and until then I may just have to play with it on my 10 computer network here:)
Perhaps, but I honestly don't see the advantage here. First, for HailStorm to be the cash cow MS needs, they need to attract business users. You just have to wonder if they'll convince business customers that storing all their employee's info in a central DB is a good idea.
Beyond that - what the heck will they use it for? Pay per use software - oh please. Why is it that the IT media has swallowed this concept hook line and sinker? Any IT mgr I've talked with thinks its a bad idea that'll just cost more money in fees and mgmt.
Beyond that - who cares if MS copyrights their schema? So MS uses their schema to validate stupid users who pay by the month for the WIndows ZZ OS. Whats to stop AOL from setting up a SIMILAR system for their users to use for their services? Unlss MS gets a overly broad patent (ie they get a patent on pay per use software licensing) I just don't see how this flys.
Sure the existing MS zealot developers will jump on the bandwagon. But I don't see ow this will GROW their market share. I mean why would a cellphoen service want to tie into Hailstorm?
So yes - we all know Micro$oft wants to own every inch of the Internet and skim $$ off every transaction, but I just don't think Hailstorm is gonan do it for them though I know Bill got a woodie reading these white papers and dreaming all about what COULD be. Problem is it ain't gonna happen.
While it might put a kink in OSS for a bit, I know that it wouldn't be long before a 'distributed' network of machines were put together to take up the slack. So instead of one mega OSS site, we'd have a large network of smaller machines hosting only as many projects as they could. Granted - its not the same (no centrla backups, etc) but I expect OSS would survive and move on.
Sourceforge rocks, but Sourceforge is popular because OSS is popular. It makes OSS development easy to coordinate and you avoid having your hot program put you in the poor house due to bandwidth from downloads. But the committed dev teams would find an alternative. I also expect someone would try a pay to play site - but in the end I'd expect the OSS community would come up with some type of solution to take up the slack left if Sourceforge went away.
I don't know what they were smoking, but Equifax certs work just fine with non MS browsers. I've used Equifax certs on numerous servers and haven't had any troubles with NS 4, 6, IE, Mozilla, Opera, you name it. Besides - how can an SSL certificate block your access to the site - worst case is you get prompted to accept an unvalidated cert.
Slashdot Mirror
All microsoft and other OS developers seem to be able to do is add lots of features that never REALLY get used and a few that do make high impact improvements. But do smart tags, the start menu, right click context menus, etc really require massive improvements in processor speed?
I can't help but think that Win2K on my Pent III 700 laptop is using the bulk of the resources just to RUN vs the load placed on it by any apps I'm using. That seems to make no sense.
So that begs the question. The whole idea of Linux from teh start was a free Unix that ran well on OLDER (cheaper - widely available) PCs. Even today that is still true. So if LInux continues to be accepted and moves into teh desktop mainstream someday - will that effect the push on PC technology?
Its striking that for less than an Apple I in 1977, I built a 1GHz Athlon server with the latest gadgets (SCSI RAID, LCD monitored drive sleds, PC133 SDRAM, etc) A PC with this much power is staggering - even compared to boxen from a year or two ago. But do I really NEED that much power? Not really, CPU wise, but it didn't make sense ot save $20 and get 200 less MHz when AMD, at the time was selling the 1GHZ athlon as the SLOWEST CPU.
We all know that no matter what Intel & AMD come up with, Micro$oft can overload it with a bloated OS upgrade that gains you squat. But in teh world or real OSes that treat system resources as something to be used scarcely, when will enough PC power be engouh for the bulk of the users (corporate flunkies, personal PCs, and small businesses?) When will we see a split in what is used for servers vs what is used in desktop PCs? Today, the latest CPUs are showing up in desktops almost at the same time they go into servers (Xeon excluded, but even there its getting more blurry)
Just like always it'll be amazing to see where we are 5 years from now, but I just can't imagine I'll be using a 3GHz desktop PC running RedHat 12.x that probably cost me $1000 :) It boggles the mind much more than the limits physics places on signal transmission on teh dies.... :)
I realize its a really small box - no question and packs a lot into a small space, but for substandard video and sound it seems a bit over priced. I mean the Beowulf cluster alone would cost more than a car :) :)
But seriously, cool box but a bit pricey for my tastes. I'll take my butt ugly !GHz Athlon beige box anyday (cause it has LCD displays on each SCSI drive - and like the review said LCDs are just too cool :) :) )
Man does that bring them back - what an excellent site and its not even /.ed yet! Lots of cool pictures of what REAL computers used to look like :) Don't get me wrong I love tinkering with my 1GHz Athlon server - but there is tinkering (kernel settings) and then there is the smell of rosin core solder!
The bigger issue here is how certain congressmen (and women) feel opt-out is the way to go for PRIVACY - i.e. credit card companies selling detailed info about you. Remember all those inane privacy notices that showed up all at once in teh mail from your banks and credit card companies? Well they were heavily disguised opt-out notices. Most folks (myself included since they looked like junk mail) threw them out and thus have given permission for all their info to be sold. The hell with SPAM, I can filter it and thanks to ORBS, etc, plus a decent mail filter I get maybe a handful a day, maybe - easily managed.
But the selling of my personal data like medical history, credit information, etc - screw that. I want that info PROTECTED and only released if I SAY SO!
Why does everybody think households worldwide are just DYING to shell out even MORE moeny for media? I mean come on! We already pay $50/month for cable/satellite, $30/month for Internet access. Why does eveyrone think folks are going to shell out more sizable dollars on reruns and stuff? Video on demand and all this interactive TV BS is a fad and unless its priced to a level folks don't care (say $1 maybe) it won't work and if it is priced that low and they try to convince you they'll 'Make it up on volume' lookup dot.com bubble.
The money is NOT with personal PCs - hell half are using pirated software anyway! Its the business customers. Well, do you think any IT Director with half a brain is going to suggest letting Microsoft a) handle authentication to their sensitive data nad b) allow that data to be stored @ microsoft? I didn't think so. Plus can you imagine the strain on the already overloaded internet pipes of most major companies? Same goes for personal users - till that last mile is fiber - well .NET will just be too slow.
Now MS may make $$$ selling a .NET type package that runs on internal corporate PCs, but ala samba, we'll just emulate it was necessary while adhering to whatever standard comes out of all this.
Personally, I agree with teh author one one point - the NC got shafted. From a corporate view it was an AWESOME idea. Having maanged PC deployments and disk images, etc it was awful. Being able to toss a cokie cutter box onto the network, hit power and it boots up based on serial # and user config - what a dream - too bad nobody could make it work right :(
I've been in home automation foy quite a few years and I chuckle at how everyone wants to converge everythign together into one box. Screw that - give me a decent open protocol standard that I can connect all my stuff to so it can be controlle dcentrally. That's nivarna.
Have you ever noticed how you STILL cannot get A/V equipment to talk to each other? Every manufacturer has their own control linkup setup - so the result? Universal remotes for everyone. Can you imagine having RS-232 ports on all yoru A/V gear with simple control commands? Now whats stopping them from tossing in USB? Set your Tivo recorded via your PC using a web browser 1000 miles away.
But there isn't money to be made doing it so nobody wants to do it. SO we're stuck with stopgap measures at best. Hell in the home automation market, most serious setups use RS-485 to connect various control devices located hundreds of feet from teh controller and there STILL isn't an agreed upon standard. CEBus is still a joke - its so expensive and complicated only the super expensive setups have it.
Its a tough call - but I'll take multi-vendor boxen connected together via a standard vs an all in one solution ANY day.
Man you hit it RIGHT on. I could care less about dependencies in Linux since the package managers are getting very advanced. However, the thing that drives me nuts about Windows is when new DLLs are munged just enough to break older apps. IN Linux, the developers SEEM to care much more about backward compatability - I cannot recall having older apps break which upgrading a package - I'm sure its happened to others, but from where I stand, I'll take GNUCash 1.6 with 60 libs anyday over MS Money on Windoze which is so network bloated you can't even use it with a remote money file over a wireless link! Unreal!
But anytime the lawyers are on your side opposing something you oppose - well, it sure makes me nervous!
I guess I need to turn up the voltage.
Bzzzzz I will not use buzzwords Bzzzzt
Nice to see the USPTO making an effort to improve things. I for one will be submitting my comments ASAP. Here's hoping they will a) listen and b) take proactive steps to improve a process we all know is broken.
The DSL line hardly EVER goes down (unlike my friends RoadRunner service), when I had bandwidth issues after a recent storm , it was fixed in a day. I run 40 domains through my SDSL pipe (legally - they aren't as anal as other providers) and it has been great.
So YMMV, but it seems DSL from smaller providers may work better, because everytime I hear someone complain about DSL , its from a big provider or ISP having to go through a big provider/telco :)
So from my standpoint, DSL rocks and is an incredible way to get onto the internet, IF your provider knows what they are doing.... I mean I can get 1.1MBps SDSL (down AND up) for $450/month when a T1 can cost you $1500/mo or more. Its a great (and fairly inexpesnive) technology and look out when the newer stuff comes out.... Amazing what they cram down 2 wires!
Is Verizon pushing bad lines on Covad on purpose at teh highest levels? I doubt it. But could it be happening at a lower level - I'm sure of it.
All it takes is a union supervisor telling his union lackeys that Covad & other non telco companies threaten their jobs and to remember that when they install the lines for COvad to use - I'm sure many would be unusable. You'd be surpised how often stuff like this happens.
Time to restart my Freenet node :)
Well, considering how many viruses there are that can turn a machine into a zombie (or help do it), its a good pursuit. University PCs are prime targets of DDoS hackers given the bandwidth these systems have available. Its not gonna be perfect, but it helps keep the thousands of student machines somewhat inoculated against script kiddies. Course if they don't get their virus in they'll take control of the machine some other way. But you gotta do something/start somewhere!
I always laugh about people freaking about sites trying to match ads to consumer bowsing habits. Sure, it means they might know I spend 24 hours a day at ninenine.com :) but that the price you pay ;)
Now before you privacy zealots get your panties in a wad - I'm not saying I want no privacy. Its just that to me, a company with my browsing habits via cookie is not a huge deal and actually provides me with some potential benefit. Same goes for TV. I'd love the advertisers to know it was me watching TV - then they could play Victoria Secret commercials for the whole time I'm watching! BONUS!
Though many frown on it - if Java will fit your needs, Sun has an excellent IDE called Forte - very powerful program and they have a free version available. See http://java.sun.com/.
avsforum.com has this posted now:
Due to recent postings on another site that linked back here, we needed to close down for sometime to save the server processes.
We are sorry for this outage and hope to be back on-line as soon as possible.
LOL
Read the story before posting FUD! The problem is they denied them ads on the CABLE networks of Time Warner. In many placces, Time Warner is the ONLY cable game in town. So they are a monopoly and they are using that monopoly to benefit OTHER parts of their business - namely Road Runner.
So this IS a problem that we all should be concerned about - should companies in a monopoly position in business A (cable TV here) be able to shut out competitors in business B (DSL/ISP) by denying them access to advertising in Business A - the monopoly.
No way - thats why these huge mergers bring up such troublesome issues - it is too easy to squash the competition, often with teh gov'ts help (grants to extend cable into rural areas, etc, etc)
True, but this is exactly why the gov't worries about placing TOO much broadcasting power in the hands of one company. The idea being if one comapny won't show advertising from Company A, another broadcaster will. But when you have companies owning a large percentage of the channels sent to viewers, you limit access to those viewers and you limit what they see - at the whim of the owning company.
Sadly - AOl knows they'll get away with it cause the small fry don't have the resources to fight it - the big guys do so they let their ads on.
So for all you free market types out there who never met a merger you didn't like - just wait till all US internet access requires the installation of AOL 12.0!
Hopefully I'll be in a position again where my company is looking to simplify their directory life and until then I may just have to play with it on my 10 computer network here :)
Beyond that - what the heck will they use it for? Pay per use software - oh please. Why is it that the IT media has swallowed this concept hook line and sinker? Any IT mgr I've talked with thinks its a bad idea that'll just cost more money in fees and mgmt.
Beyond that - who cares if MS copyrights their schema? So MS uses their schema to validate stupid users who pay by the month for the WIndows ZZ OS. Whats to stop AOL from setting up a SIMILAR system for their users to use for their services? Unlss MS gets a overly broad patent (ie they get a patent on pay per use software licensing) I just don't see how this flys.
Sure the existing MS zealot developers will jump on the bandwagon. But I don't see ow this will GROW their market share. I mean why would a cellphoen service want to tie into Hailstorm?
So yes - we all know Micro$oft wants to own every inch of the Internet and skim $$ off every transaction, but I just don't think Hailstorm is gonan do it for them though I know Bill got a woodie reading these white papers and dreaming all about what COULD be. Problem is it ain't gonna happen.
Sourceforge rocks, but Sourceforge is popular because OSS is popular. It makes OSS development easy to coordinate and you avoid having your hot program put you in the poor house due to bandwidth from downloads. But the committed dev teams would find an alternative. I also expect someone would try a pay to play site - but in the end I'd expect the OSS community would come up with some type of solution to take up the slack left if Sourceforge went away.
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