No I am tired of that argument it might have been legit 20 years ago but history in the mean time has proven its horse shit.
no srsly, what happened in the last 20 years that hasn't happened since the dawn of Abrahamic faiths?
You be real. One religion in recent history has been responsible for the vast vast majority of religious inspired violence.
correlation != causation.
Essentially two mainstream religions feature a scripture that preaches violence against its enemies, the Islamic and Jewish faiths. The latter does not have any prevailing interpretations advocating violence outside a small patch of land.
both are over 1000 years old, as christianity. You analysis of ancient religeons only focusing on the last 20 years is not a real analysis. Lets also be frank, war has more to do with politics than beliefs. In History Christianity has killed just as many. Also, Judaism is only a major religeon in two places on earth, the United States, and Israel. Everywhere else its extremely obscure.
Do you know when Christianity stopped killing people? When we stripped its political influence from the state. The state kept killing people however. It seems to me reliegon is not the cause, but the State, and various types of government that require the extreme use of force to aquire and maintain their rule.
Christianity has the New Testament which is supreme over the Old and is very consistent in its advocacy of nonviolence.
Thew new testamant has a lot of things. In history, like both judiasm and islam, its followed and re-interpreted as its followers see fit for political reasons. Judaeism in the USA more or less re-interpreted their values around mainstream moderate christanity. All three religeons also have many "interpretations", so you can litterally read anything anyway you want. In history, many Christian sects have re-interpreted the New Testimant to mean violence.
When polled you actually find quite a lot of support for groups like ISIS and Boko Haram from "western" faithful (ignorant teenagers anyway) even if they are not about to take up arms themselves.
which they have more support from western teenage muslims than they do from muslims in Islamic countries. Why? Most muslims won't take their shit, and don't want that crap. All the people on the front lines against both groups fighting and dying to stop them are also Muslim.
The problem is the west can't tell the diffrence between reactionary fundie shitheads, and moderates, and refuses to learn, and lets the fundies rule western Islam instead of helping intergration. Both mainstream "left" and "right" have their heads up their asses they can't see the whole lot of them passed "you people", and let the most extreme saudi-backing-american CIA puppets win.
the modus operandi for reactiory apologists is to point out other reactionaries they are fighting, and that they are slightly less bad.
Its not a war of "Islam vs Christinaity", and I agree anyone who brings up other reliegons is dumb. Its a war of modernism vs stark reactionaryism. This breed Islamic Fundimentalists are no diffrent than any other far "right" reactionary group, and has always servred the same purpose of repressing freedom and proggress in the middle easy, often at the beheast of Western intrests.
There is not a philosphical debate, its purely political.
and thats because Islam has a far larger chunk of the world population than christianity, and Judaeism. You are also making the mistake of equating what a few followers in fringe groups do with what the entire reliegon does, and painting all muslims with a rather large brush.
There is no excusing reactionaries of any stripes, but lets call it was it is. Its reactionaries vs the rest of us, not christianity vs islam.
I don't want to discount the threat of fundimentalist religious lunatics(of any stripe), nor would I stand in the way of reasonable efforts to put them down, but lets be real here, and not blame an entire reliegon of 1.2 billion people for a handful of incidents, and fringe groups.
Whats even worse is that because you can project the actions of a few, who are organized into organizations for such, onto a much wider population, you'll ultimately fail at stopping terrorism because you wouldn't know where to start by fighting it. You'll also easily be thrown off track into attacking strawmen, and other no-value targets sparking wider conflict out of stupidity. Its not just that the "take them all" approach will invaribly kill innocents, its the fact is that its prohibits higher order thinking needed to form a more reasonable plan of attack with a higher chance of success.
The end result of American culture disvaluing intellectualism at all levels is that we start loosing wars because we distrust anyone smart enough to proccess all but the most simple of stratagem. People like you would rather loose than be labeled a nerd for trying to strategize. This is the real cause for the fall of western civilization.
The problem with the USA, is there are to many "buts" after "freedom", too much doublespeak, and too big of a gap between the rules as we state they work, and how the rules actually work.
Its to the point we really don't have "rights", but "privledges", and there is no real clear line to cross, and we have a government that doesn't seem to diffrentiate between dissent and flat out rebellion.
The problem with the constitution is that its been abused since 1796 with the Alien and Sedition acts, and a few decades later with the removal of the Seminole indians from florida despite court order. When Abe Lincoln took office, he completely ignored it, and its been dead since then, and no one ever really brought it back.
The very concept that a piece of paper, no matter how just or good the words on it are, can protect you from an abusive government or anything else, is bogus. The US Constitution like many other things, is a fairy tale they tell you. It has no real bearing on US law.as practiced.
congradulates, there are a handful of societies out there that are matrilinial, I don't see how they are any better or worse.
'ER' Patriarchy generated capitalism
No, Patriarchy predates capitalist society by a very long margin, as it was the building block of feudalist society, i.e arranged marraige, and the rule of lords that required offspring, and political marraiges to keep power. The first woman's rights movements happened around the same time that classical liberals took a foothold, and was picked up as a cause by socialists around the same time(such as emma goldman).
As liberalism(classical) became capitalism, past victims of oppression because easy targets for exploitation, and profit was to be made, and the economy dependant on this exploitation.
In today's society, our economy revolves around material society selling goods which requires a strict social hiearchy based on consumption. Because sex is big part of this pecking order, and primary motivation to climb the ladder, capitalists make it hard for women to be anything but trophies and posession of those who continue to further the system the most.
Under socialism, any sort of hiearchy, to include patriarchy would cause a problem, for everyone, not because of any feel good bullshit, but because it would enable an elite based on status based on skill and ability as exploiters. Since these people have already proven themselves better at exploitation, they would rapidly exploit the rest of what was supposed to be the 'privledged' section of society.
The man women example, is that in the golden age of patriarchy, i.e. feudalism, fathers married off their daughters for social and political gain. The only men that had women, where either status'ed, or paid for whores. The lower class of men, beneath the point where they could purchase a wife, or whores, generally resorted to homosexuality. Companionship was something you paid for.
Another example was under slavery in the USA, whites where privledged because they were not kept as slaves. However, when it came time to vote, slaveholding states had more representation than voters, because they had slaves. Any organization and fraternity between Free workers became useless, because they could always be undercut by slave labor. So the mere existance of slaves oppresses everyone but people who have enough slaves to use them as capital.
That doesn't get to the fact as long as there is hiearchy and privledge it needs to be protected, because all social constructs are made up, and at somepoint people start ignoring bad ideas.
As long as you have a privledged group, you have hiearchy and explotation, the demands enforcement, who become the only people who benefit from the equation.
There is no amount of high-falutan pseudo-intellectual garbage that will change that, end of story.
also, from your article:
They have aspects of a matriarchal culture: women are often the head of the house, inheritance is through the female line, and women make business decisions. However, unlike a matriarchy, the political power tends to be in the hands of males
welp, rules that one out, but you've yet to show how its measurably better than comparable societies without any matrilialism.
The problem is, If I tried doing something about it, I'd be attacked by the people who wanted me to help.
The sad truth is, I'm not moving an inch on this until we can highlight the root of the problem, instead of lynching scape goats, which does far more harm than good.
This is like saying, I don't want to bother arresting minor drug users, especially the poor, because if I tried arresting the large trafficers I'd get lynched from supporters of large cartels, with the blessing of the so called activists
until someone wants to confront sexist stereotypes in the founts of culture, and challenge pop culture, there will always be sexism. Until I have a partner in confronting classism, racism and sexism are never going away because the two are a function of classism.
The reason is because I cannot go to war with an army I do not have, and sometimes doing nothing is more prudent, because I'd make more of a mess than I'd solve. I am putting my foot down, and I am not going to let self-described "feminists" use gender issues as a wedge against people who are either poor, or with low social status.
Its been said that half the value of the internet is in data mined from consumers? What do companies do with this data?
They use it to target advertisements to you. Of course you assume its going to be things like soap, movies, cars and other stuff you actually want to buy. And some of it is.
But the real money is in "guerilla marketing", pretending to be normal people in order to change your opinion. They engage in all kind of anti-social activities like spreading rumors against resistors, as well as threats and cyberbullying people resistant to their marketing. They are also the ones generating the vast amount of black propaganda around the election proccess and are trying to get people amenible to seeing their neighbors as the enemy.
And that is not reinforced by any bit of history I am aware of. Christianity has tended to improve women's rights, not degrade them, and I posed evidence to support this. I have seen precious little to suggest that GP is correct-- but as I say I am no expert on this so perhaps one of you two could provide sources.
I never said that, and you never provided otherwise. You seem to have an unrelated bone to pick, so you made an argument and then posted something completely off topic on a wierd tangent.
you completely missed my argument, and attacked a strawman. I said that religeon is a big influence in re-enforce traditional gender roles, not that all religeon believes in traditional gender roles.
"Willing to do what it takes" = folding our arms and abdicating responsibility?
What are you willing to do? This has got to be good? I'm willing to fight against mainstream society, and to some extent have been all my life. You seem ready to push a bunch of nerds around. I'm not about to go to war without an army though.
Like you observe, a lot of nerds are put off by non-nerd feminists telling them what to do, because it feels like more of the same bullying they're so tired of
Especially when I hear more about #gamergate, and some people who should know better apologizing for Bill Cosby's rape habits. If its one struggle, then its one struggle. I've noticed even with so called socialists there is too many apologism, and even a tolerance for classism, that disgustingly has many ignoring sexism and racism if done through a classist lense.
I hold Anarchist(mutualist) political and social views, but I don't identify by the label, because I think many modern day anarchists leave much to be desired. Even worse, is mainstream modern feminists absolutely disgust me, because they seem to be dominated by neo-liberal capitalist and classist apologists who leverage gender issues to protect capitalist intrests. I think Emma Goldman is spinning in her grave.(pink drill bits for fracking anyone?). At the same time, I completely understand that men and women are not equal in society, and might agree with some of their talking points.
OR maybe it's got more to do with the fact that CS is a mere 10% of all degrees conferred, is essentially a dying field, and the combination of demonizing and pathologizing nerds along with fearmongering like yours is what's keeping women away.
the best are self-taught. This is slashdot. geeks rule, suits drool. Thats from back when the geek scene was about tech, and tech rights. There was no talk at all about genders because it was 95% male, and we wanted more women in tech, but didn't have the damnest idea of how to get them.
I remember what it was like back then. People were nicer, there was more of a community feel to the net. The numbers confirm it - more women went into CS back then.
then you'd don't remember the internet. I've been yelling at people online for over 20 years now, and its nicer than its ever been.
People wouldn't hestitate to kick ban you for n00b questions of DoS your 14.4 k modem off the internet. Now "reddit" is the frontpage of the internet, back then it was goatse.cx, and watching a man strech his asshole wide enough to park a school bus in it was the standard initiation ritual. god help you if you had a *.ipt.aol.com ip hostname on IRC.
Unless you were talking about the "proffesional" side of the internet world, which was full of uptight untalented dickheads who's entire scene has all but been suplanted by the hackers. Some dickhead that went to work for a computer company 8 hours a day then went home didn't build the internet, or contribute to it's culture.
If you even remember/. from the 1990s, it was geeks vs suits. I don't give a fuck about the suits. I care that the hacker scene welcomes girls who have talent, and more importantly aren't more liberal arts types in disguise.
While I certainly don't want to discount the misogyny out there, and the girls who just want to play and get harrassed, I really can't count Zoe Quinn as a game developer. I heard about the story third hand, and I listened to all the sides.(haven't been a "real" gamer in well over 15 years), I checked out the #gamergate sites, and even played Depression Quest(I would have never played it, but thank you #GG for striessand effecting me). While I agree #gamergate is a gross overreaction, I'll say this: I'll really hesitate to call Zoe Quin a developer. Its painfully obvious she's a liberal arts types, and not really a programmer. This is obvious by comparing how simple and primative the mechanics of "Depression Quest" are, to how complex and advanced both story, text, verbage, and overall writing skill demonstrated in the game. Her real calling and talent is plainly languge arts, not computer programming. Simply put, "Depression Question", was a talented writer trying to make a video game, as a writer, without too much thought into trying to appreciate how game designers think.
1. the CIA covertly taps cables all over the world.
2. Even if they didn't, there are the other four of the "five eyes", the brits, canucks, ozzies, and kiwis.
3. Even if that weren't true, you'd have to avoid all routes that pass through the USA/5 eyes, other countries with agreements.
on a serious note, the dates also line up with MK ULTRA. so sadly yes. "Alien abductions" in the 50s and 60s, assuming they where not made up, had a chance of actually being CIA performing MK ultra.
And in one post you demonstrate exactly the problem. Even when we're talking about men getting utterly fucked AND blamed for it at the same time women are the real victims.
The real problem is capitalism, and its effects on society, the rise of "social capital", or the use of reputation and popularity as capital, and the ability to manage it as such.
Its the cold reality of capitalist society, is that since a handful of corporations made a huge market out of selling you. your opinions, your consumption habbits, etc..., your Freedoms, and right to self-identify and make choices for yourself comes second to their profits. In this system, any and all rights, as well as transgressions and even what morales are, are strictly relivant to how much money you are bringing the system in.
This is not a battle of the sexes, its pure class exploitment. Gamers disobeying advertiser-cum-journalists get called out on making sexist remarks. Celebrities who continue to add value do not get called out on rape.
and other traditional sources. One of which is the family.
Now let me ask you something, is computer programming(or its analog working with any sorts of machinery) a traditionalist gender role for women?
I'm going to guess not, which is the reason why more men are programmers. Now, being a lowly nerd, I'm not one to tell you or the rest of society how to run its business and how to, or how not to raise your kids.
The point I'm trying to make is don't blame the nerds for the society you've made.
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pseudo-intellectual bullshit. The main problem with patriarchy isn't patriarchy, its capitalism. Patriarchy never existed in a vacuum, but as a mere tool as part of larger systems. But it seems with liberalism, hate filled pseudo-science seems to trumph any real critique of the system. As expected..
Looks like wikipedia deleted your page because it doesn't mean standards. wonder why. Now off to the dustbin of history along with social darwinism, IQ and the Wealth of Nations, and the rest your politically motivated pseudo-science.
Consumerism will be the end of us all. In the eyes of MTV and material culture, women who don't fit the mainstream standards of beauty and feminity created soley for advertising purposes, and made to be sex objects aren't even really women.
Its like they are enforcing gender roles, and getting pissed off gender roles exist.
oh me, personally, I'm all for being better than pop culture, but fighting it is going to be real hard. and again, no one wants to fight against pop culture, not the least because the same "feminists" who take a heavy hand to nerd culture, and the first to defend MTV and pop culture, along the same lines. Sexism, and even worse, flat out rape, and rape apologism seems fine as long as advertisement money keeps flowing. Thats my point.
The nerds don't have the stomache for an us against the world struggle like the hardcore/punk scene does/did, even if they have far more resources and far more leverage to fight it. When you start hitting back against the sources of advertisement money, you are asking for a fight with the last thing holding our capitalist economy together.
Thats what it will take. I'm willing to do what it takes, I am willing to unite various culture/counter-culture forces. You are not. Do not blame me.
Sexism exists, and is very rampant in society. However, its plainly obvious that the sexism isn't government imposed, its not made by tech geeks, or programs, or education, or business institutions.
You also have to be kidding me if you think it was a few computer geeks, engineers, or nerds of any era who decided, or at in any way formed mainstream society's gender rules. Before any of the social darwinist apologists come back here with some shitty science, throwing out terms they barely understand, not understanding how they don't apply, because its convienant for their political position, lets discus gender roles in larger society.
Gender roles come from two places in modern America: One, Churches and other bastation of traditionalism; Two, MTV, advertising, and materialist pop culture. These determine what people think they should be doing. Niether of them promotes women in technology, and its mostly people adherent to the standards set forth from either that self-re-enforce those standards.
Now this is where I tell you don't look at me. I'm an outcast, a nerd, a hacker, I have no say in the matter, regardless of being gifted with computers, both groups look at me as a freak and an outcast. I didn't make that society. Anything I do to change it will be met with open hostility because I am viewed as a freak, and very low on the totem pole of both. So this is I what I want my fellow techies to do. Simply repeat this, fold your arms, say we simply live in the society you made for us, that we have no say in, and let the mainstream sort their own fucking problems out, and welcome whatever girls want to try tech out with open arms. Also, don't namefag me. If you agree with me, make the idea yours and repeat it in your words, great ideas are meant to be shared.
I see a lot of us taking sides in the traditionalist vs materialist debate, and its a place where we have no place. The mainstream is looking for someone to blame, and I say we simply fold our arms and reply "its not our fault society isn't the way you want it to be".
Slashdot Mirror
No I am tired of that argument it might have been legit 20 years ago but history in the mean time has proven its horse shit.
no srsly, what happened in the last 20 years that hasn't happened since the dawn of Abrahamic faiths?
You be real. One religion in recent history has been responsible for the vast vast majority of religious inspired violence.
correlation != causation.
Essentially two mainstream religions feature a scripture that preaches violence against its enemies, the Islamic and Jewish faiths. The latter does not have any prevailing interpretations advocating violence outside a small patch of land.
both are over 1000 years old, as christianity. You analysis of ancient religeons only focusing on the last 20 years is not a real analysis. Lets also be frank, war has more to do with politics than beliefs. In History Christianity has killed just as many. Also, Judaism is only a major religeon in two places on earth, the United States, and Israel. Everywhere else its extremely obscure.
Do you know when Christianity stopped killing people? When we stripped its political influence from the state. The state kept killing people however. It seems to me reliegon is not the cause, but the State, and various types of government that require the extreme use of force to aquire and maintain their rule.
Christianity has the New Testament which is supreme over the Old and is very consistent in its advocacy of nonviolence.
Thew new testamant has a lot of things. In history, like both judiasm and islam, its followed and re-interpreted as its followers see fit for political reasons. Judaeism in the USA more or less re-interpreted their values around mainstream moderate christanity. All three religeons also have many "interpretations", so you can litterally read anything anyway you want. In history, many Christian sects have re-interpreted the New Testimant to mean violence.
When polled you actually find quite a lot of support for groups like ISIS and Boko Haram from "western" faithful (ignorant teenagers anyway) even if they are not about to take up arms themselves.
which they have more support from western teenage muslims than they do from muslims in Islamic countries. Why? Most muslims won't take their shit, and don't want that crap. All the people on the front lines against both groups fighting and dying to stop them are also Muslim.
The problem is the west can't tell the diffrence between reactionary fundie shitheads, and moderates, and refuses to learn, and lets the fundies rule western Islam instead of helping intergration. Both mainstream "left" and "right" have their heads up their asses they can't see the whole lot of them passed "you people", and let the most extreme saudi-backing-american CIA puppets win.
ignorance is killing the west.
Its not a war of "Islam vs Christinaity", and I agree anyone who brings up other reliegons is dumb. Its a war of modernism vs stark reactionaryism. This breed Islamic Fundimentalists are no diffrent than any other far "right" reactionary group, and has always servred the same purpose of repressing freedom and proggress in the middle easy, often at the beheast of Western intrests.
There is not a philosphical debate, its purely political.
There is no excusing reactionaries of any stripes, but lets call it was it is. Its reactionaries vs the rest of us, not christianity vs islam.
Whats even worse is that because you can project the actions of a few, who are organized into organizations for such, onto a much wider population, you'll ultimately fail at stopping terrorism because you wouldn't know where to start by fighting it. You'll also easily be thrown off track into attacking strawmen, and other no-value targets sparking wider conflict out of stupidity. Its not just that the "take them all" approach will invaribly kill innocents, its the fact is that its prohibits higher order thinking needed to form a more reasonable plan of attack with a higher chance of success.
The end result of American culture disvaluing intellectualism at all levels is that we start loosing wars because we distrust anyone smart enough to proccess all but the most simple of stratagem. People like you would rather loose than be labeled a nerd for trying to strategize. This is the real cause for the fall of western civilization.
In other news:
Windows 10 gets released this week.
Its to the point we really don't have "rights", but "privledges", and there is no real clear line to cross, and we have a government that doesn't seem to diffrentiate between dissent and flat out rebellion.
The very concept that a piece of paper, no matter how just or good the words on it are, can protect you from an abusive government or anything else, is bogus. The US Constitution like many other things, is a fairy tale they tell you. It has no real bearing on US law.as practiced.
'ER' Patriarchy generated capitalism
No, Patriarchy predates capitalist society by a very long margin, as it was the building block of feudalist society, i.e arranged marraige, and the rule of lords that required offspring, and political marraiges to keep power. The first woman's rights movements happened around the same time that classical liberals took a foothold, and was picked up as a cause by socialists around the same time(such as emma goldman).
As liberalism(classical) became capitalism, past victims of oppression because easy targets for exploitation, and profit was to be made, and the economy dependant on this exploitation.
In today's society, our economy revolves around material society selling goods which requires a strict social hiearchy based on consumption. Because sex is big part of this pecking order, and primary motivation to climb the ladder, capitalists make it hard for women to be anything but trophies and posession of those who continue to further the system the most.
Under socialism, any sort of hiearchy, to include patriarchy would cause a problem, for everyone, not because of any feel good bullshit, but because it would enable an elite based on status based on skill and ability as exploiters. Since these people have already proven themselves better at exploitation, they would rapidly exploit the rest of what was supposed to be the 'privledged' section of society.
The man women example, is that in the golden age of patriarchy, i.e. feudalism, fathers married off their daughters for social and political gain. The only men that had women, where either status'ed, or paid for whores. The lower class of men, beneath the point where they could purchase a wife, or whores, generally resorted to homosexuality. Companionship was something you paid for.
Another example was under slavery in the USA, whites where privledged because they were not kept as slaves. However, when it came time to vote, slaveholding states had more representation than voters, because they had slaves. Any organization and fraternity between Free workers became useless, because they could always be undercut by slave labor. So the mere existance of slaves oppresses everyone but people who have enough slaves to use them as capital.
That doesn't get to the fact as long as there is hiearchy and privledge it needs to be protected, because all social constructs are made up, and at somepoint people start ignoring bad ideas.
As long as you have a privledged group, you have hiearchy and explotation, the demands enforcement, who become the only people who benefit from the equation.
There is no amount of high-falutan pseudo-intellectual garbage that will change that, end of story.
also, from your article:
They have aspects of a matriarchal culture: women are often the head of the house, inheritance is through the female line, and women make business decisions. However, unlike a matriarchy, the political power tends to be in the hands of males
welp, rules that one out, but you've yet to show how its measurably better than comparable societies without any matrilialism.
actually, I'd just go with Fedora, its got a nice easy and installer and gnome shell.
swapoff bro, just swapoff, and put a # in /etc/fstab
The sad truth is, I'm not moving an inch on this until we can highlight the root of the problem, instead of lynching scape goats, which does far more harm than good.
This is like saying, I don't want to bother arresting minor drug users, especially the poor, because if I tried arresting the large trafficers I'd get lynched from supporters of large cartels, with the blessing of the so called activists
until someone wants to confront sexist stereotypes in the founts of culture, and challenge pop culture, there will always be sexism. Until I have a partner in confronting classism, racism and sexism are never going away because the two are a function of classism.
The reason is because I cannot go to war with an army I do not have, and sometimes doing nothing is more prudent, because I'd make more of a mess than I'd solve. I am putting my foot down, and I am not going to let self-described "feminists" use gender issues as a wedge against people who are either poor, or with low social status.
But the real money is in "guerilla marketing", pretending to be normal people in order to change your opinion. They engage in all kind of anti-social activities like spreading rumors against resistors, as well as threats and cyberbullying people resistant to their marketing. They are also the ones generating the vast amount of black propaganda around the election proccess and are trying to get people amenible to seeing their neighbors as the enemy.
And that is not reinforced by any bit of history I am aware of. Christianity has tended to improve women's rights, not degrade them, and I posed evidence to support this. I have seen precious little to suggest that GP is correct-- but as I say I am no expert on this so perhaps one of you two could provide sources.
I never said that, and you never provided otherwise. You seem to have an unrelated bone to pick, so you made an argument and then posted something completely off topic on a wierd tangent.
But thank you for taking my words out of context.
And so are you.
and you're digging for motive.
"Willing to do what it takes" = folding our arms and abdicating responsibility?
What are you willing to do? This has got to be good? I'm willing to fight against mainstream society, and to some extent have been all my life. You seem ready to push a bunch of nerds around. I'm not about to go to war without an army though.
Like you observe, a lot of nerds are put off by non-nerd feminists telling them what to do, because it feels like more of the same bullying they're so tired of
Especially when I hear more about #gamergate, and some people who should know better apologizing for Bill Cosby's rape habits. If its one struggle, then its one struggle. I've noticed even with so called socialists there is too many apologism, and even a tolerance for classism, that disgustingly has many ignoring sexism and racism if done through a classist lense.
I hold Anarchist(mutualist) political and social views, but I don't identify by the label, because I think many modern day anarchists leave much to be desired. Even worse, is mainstream modern feminists absolutely disgust me, because they seem to be dominated by neo-liberal capitalist and classist apologists who leverage gender issues to protect capitalist intrests. I think Emma Goldman is spinning in her grave.(pink drill bits for fracking anyone?). At the same time, I completely understand that men and women are not equal in society, and might agree with some of their talking points.
OR maybe it's got more to do with the fact that CS is a mere 10% of all degrees conferred, is essentially a dying field, and the combination of demonizing and pathologizing nerds along with fearmongering like yours is what's keeping women away.
the best are self-taught. This is slashdot. geeks rule, suits drool. Thats from back when the geek scene was about tech, and tech rights. There was no talk at all about genders because it was 95% male, and we wanted more women in tech, but didn't have the damnest idea of how to get them.
I remember what it was like back then. People were nicer, there was more of a community feel to the net. The numbers confirm it - more women went into CS back then.
then you'd don't remember the internet. I've been yelling at people online for over 20 years now, and its nicer than its ever been.
People wouldn't hestitate to kick ban you for n00b questions of DoS your 14.4 k modem off the internet. Now "reddit" is the frontpage of the internet, back then it was goatse.cx, and watching a man strech his asshole wide enough to park a school bus in it was the standard initiation ritual. god help you if you had a *.ipt.aol.com ip hostname on IRC.
Unless you were talking about the "proffesional" side of the internet world, which was full of uptight untalented dickheads who's entire scene has all but been suplanted by the hackers. Some dickhead that went to work for a computer company 8 hours a day then went home didn't build the internet, or contribute to it's culture.
If you even remember /. from the 1990s, it was geeks vs suits. I don't give a fuck about the suits. I care that the hacker scene welcomes girls who have talent, and more importantly aren't more liberal arts types in disguise.
While I certainly don't want to discount the misogyny out there, and the girls who just want to play and get harrassed, I really can't count Zoe Quinn as a game developer. I heard about the story third hand, and I listened to all the sides.(haven't been a "real" gamer in well over 15 years), I checked out the #gamergate sites, and even played Depression Quest(I would have never played it, but thank you #GG for striessand effecting me). While I agree #gamergate is a gross overreaction, I'll say this: I'll really hesitate to call Zoe Quin a developer. Its painfully obvious she's a liberal arts types, and not really a programmer. This is obvious by comparing how simple and primative the mechanics of "Depression Quest" are, to how complex and advanced both story, text, verbage, and overall writing skill demonstrated in the game. Her real calling and talent is plainly languge arts, not computer programming. Simply put, "Depression Question", was a talented writer trying to make a video game, as a writer, without too much thought into trying to appreciate how game designers think.
1. the CIA covertly taps cables all over the world.
2. Even if they didn't, there are the other four of the "five eyes", the brits, canucks, ozzies, and kiwis.
3. Even if that weren't true, you'd have to avoid all routes that pass through the USA/5 eyes, other countries with agreements.
on a serious note, the dates also line up with MK ULTRA. so sadly yes. "Alien abductions" in the 50s and 60s, assuming they where not made up, had a chance of actually being CIA performing MK ultra.
And in one post you demonstrate exactly the problem. Even when we're talking about men getting utterly fucked AND blamed for it at the same time women are the real victims.
The real problem is capitalism, and its effects on society, the rise of "social capital", or the use of reputation and popularity as capital, and the ability to manage it as such.
Its the cold reality of capitalist society, is that since a handful of corporations made a huge market out of selling you. your opinions, your consumption habbits, etc..., your Freedoms, and right to self-identify and make choices for yourself comes second to their profits. In this system, any and all rights, as well as transgressions and even what morales are, are strictly relivant to how much money you are bringing the system in.
This is not a battle of the sexes, its pure class exploitment. Gamers disobeying advertiser-cum-journalists get called out on making sexist remarks. Celebrities who continue to add value do not get called out on rape.
Now let me ask you something, is computer programming(or its analog working with any sorts of machinery) a traditionalist gender role for women?
I'm going to guess not, which is the reason why more men are programmers. Now, being a lowly nerd, I'm not one to tell you or the rest of society how to run its business and how to, or how not to raise your kids.
The point I'm trying to make is don't blame the nerds for the society you've made.
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pseudo-intellectual bullshit. The main problem with patriarchy isn't patriarchy, its capitalism. Patriarchy never existed in a vacuum, but as a mere tool as part of larger systems. But it seems with liberalism, hate filled pseudo-science seems to trumph any real critique of the system. As expected..
Looks like wikipedia deleted your page because it doesn't mean standards. wonder why. Now off to the dustbin of history along with social darwinism, IQ and the Wealth of Nations, and the rest your politically motivated pseudo-science.
Its like they are enforcing gender roles, and getting pissed off gender roles exist.
The nerds don't have the stomache for an us against the world struggle like the hardcore/punk scene does/did, even if they have far more resources and far more leverage to fight it. When you start hitting back against the sources of advertisement money, you are asking for a fight with the last thing holding our capitalist economy together.
Thats what it will take. I'm willing to do what it takes, I am willing to unite various culture/counter-culture forces. You are not. Do not blame me.
Sexism exists, and is very rampant in society. However, its plainly obvious that the sexism isn't government imposed, its not made by tech geeks, or programs, or education, or business institutions.
You also have to be kidding me if you think it was a few computer geeks, engineers, or nerds of any era who decided, or at in any way formed mainstream society's gender rules. Before any of the social darwinist apologists come back here with some shitty science, throwing out terms they barely understand, not understanding how they don't apply, because its convienant for their political position, lets discus gender roles in larger society.
Gender roles come from two places in modern America: One, Churches and other bastation of traditionalism; Two, MTV, advertising, and materialist pop culture. These determine what people think they should be doing. Niether of them promotes women in technology, and its mostly people adherent to the standards set forth from either that self-re-enforce those standards.
Now this is where I tell you don't look at me. I'm an outcast, a nerd, a hacker, I have no say in the matter, regardless of being gifted with computers, both groups look at me as a freak and an outcast. I didn't make that society. Anything I do to change it will be met with open hostility because I am viewed as a freak, and very low on the totem pole of both. So this is I what I want my fellow techies to do. Simply repeat this, fold your arms, say we simply live in the society you made for us, that we have no say in, and let the mainstream sort their own fucking problems out, and welcome whatever girls want to try tech out with open arms. Also, don't namefag me. If you agree with me, make the idea yours and repeat it in your words, great ideas are meant to be shared.
I see a lot of us taking sides in the traditionalist vs materialist debate, and its a place where we have no place. The mainstream is looking for someone to blame, and I say we simply fold our arms and reply "its not our fault society isn't the way you want it to be".