It's a choice we'll have to make at some point of time or the other.
Do we let millions upon millions die _after_ they've matured into full humans, or do we save them by killing millions upon millions before they are anything more than a mass of cells?
Another thing to think about is this - so many millions in this world are killed everyday due to poverty, disease and strife - are we being fair in spending money on this rather than that?
I could go on so forth ad infinitum, but the point remains that this is progress, and if it can save the life of a full grown man at the expense of an embryos, it's a hard but decisive choice.
I'm certain that sooner or later, a way of coming up with stem-cells in ways other than using embroys will come up - but we will not reach that point unless we're willing to give it a shot, and try our hand at it.
Science at the outset often seems unfair, even barbaric. But in the end, the result is often worth it, beautiful even!
There is enough and more space in the world. It's just our cities which are crowded. Next time, take a drive around to the wilderness and outlands a few miles off your city and you'd notice how much free space is out there.
The only thing of worry is the crunch it may have on our natural resources, but I'm sure we'll find a way around it. Afterall, our species has shown the most resilience only when pushed to our limits.
It's going to be a long century, and at the moment, this kind of thing isn't safe either privatized or government regulated.
Yes, that's why they have bureas of ethical issues regulating this stuff. They have not even approved this, and it is not known if they will - this is merely an application seeking permission for _research_.
And read this (emphasis mine) -
Jennings said Harvard had raised "substantial" funds for the experiment from private philanthropies, but declined to name them. "There are a lot of people who have the resources and who are very keen to see this sort of work go ahead," he said in a telephone interview. "This is not commercial research."
It's just research for science's sake. I do not see anything evil in their intent, except for the fact that it may help several people with disabilities lead a normal life.
And besides, the reason I replied to your question - stem cell research is _not_ just to increase your longetivity. It can also help people with severe neurological disabilities. I've a cousin who has not gotten out of her bed ever since she has been of 4 years of age, for the past 18 years. I would do anything to see her walk, so would her parents.
For that reason alone, I would like to see this work progress. Go science!:)
When we started this company [Netscape], we were out to change the world. And we did that. Without us, the change probably would have happened anyway, maybe six months or a year later, and who-knows-what would have played out differently. But we were the ones who actually did it. When you see URLs on grocery bags, on billboards, on the sides of trucks, at the end of movie credits just after the studio logos -- that was us, we did that. We put the Internet in the hands of normal people. We kick-started a new communications medium. We changed the world.
Indeed. They very much were the ones who brought the WWW to the masses.
If some of them were undercover agents, their lives might be in danger for all you know.
If I were an undercover agent and if photographs of me were on the web showing me in places where I ought not to be, it's quite understandable.
But what I do not understandable is why they would do this in a way that gets them so much attention. I mean, now all those pictures would be all over the place and would be quite uncontrollable. It would have the opposite effect of what they intended.
Weird. Or maybe I'm missing something. Or maybe I just need more coffee.
It's the woman helping woman thing, trust me. You know? When they have that time of the month and stuff, it's easier for a woman to "emphathise" and provide certain types of support, that you know, we all see in those nice reality shows.
The funny thing is that the latest National Geographic's Adventure contained a question from a hiker who had asked if he could train himself to have less water. The question was answered by a seasoned Everest explorer who also happened to be a doctor.
Apparently, it does not make any difference because your body releases certain chemicals under those stressful situations that helps you adapt, and there is no way you can artificially force your body to release those. He also mentioned that while you may try living on a colder condition to prepare for an Arctic exploration or try living in hot weather to prepare yourself for a desert situation, your body's physical needs (water, food, etc) cannot really be altered that much.
Those are largely dependent on food habits you were raised on, your body mass and a lot of other things. Can't seem to find the article online, though.
Bah, once you unleash the power of the Awesome Russian Vodka (TM), Alexandar, Sasha, Dmitry, Vladimir are all one and the same.
I mean, almost every other Russian guy I've known is either a Vladimir or a Dmitry or an Alexandar (Sasha). And boy, I know atleast 5 Russian women named Anastasia. Must be the Vodka, am sure.
True, I agree with you in all entirety. However, it's a vicious circle - people personally have a lot of trouble taking to non-MS products, especially after they've been used to MS products. When you hire someone and give them a non-Office product, they will complain to the fullest possible extent, and sometimes their complaining is quite justified since Linux is a very different operating system from Windows.
They have trouble understanding paths - one user could not understand why she did not have C:\ - and since we do not usually give them admin access, they try creating files and folders in places where they aren't allowed to, etc.
There are a lot of problems that I could go on and on about, but the basic fact is that it is different and it's an inherent resistance. And when these people decide to leave and go to another place, companies do not know or understand what OpenOffice is - which complicates their problems. You'd be surprised, but a lot of backoffice folks are aware of this problem and some would refuse to take up a job if they are asked to use non-Office products.
That's the problem. Rather than have 200 copies of VMWare plus the overheads, it's easier to dual boot into Windows. Not to mention the technical support problems that would crop up among other issues.
Useful as it may have been for us, for most people, VMWare would be an overkill.
It really sucks, I remember the time when VMWare used to actually free. We showcased running Linux off Windows off Linux and a few applications based on that, on a 500 MhZ processor. Ah, those were the days:-)
When stupid users open that latest Funny.exe file, nothing happens! For that one reason alone, I think a Linux destktop would rock.
But the advantage of Windows is more psychological and social - there are jobs where if you put, 5 experience working in MS Excel would get you the job - however, people would not know what OpenOffice is at all. So, from that point of view, people may not really like switching over. It's got to be a gradual process, where they are first acquainted with the fact that an alternative exists, and then move on.
However, the department I was in was almost entirely into *nix development, but we would have to do some kinda stuff related to Windows from time to time.
We also learnt that it's quite useful for you to have some kinda virtual machine like VMWare on your box, to boot into alternate OSes. Really really useful.
And the problem is that it's really hard being in the development industry with only Linux -- sooner or later, you're going to run into some client who'd ask you for development on the Windows platform. And it's not as simple as saying, sorry, we don't do Windows:-)
Well said, thank you. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Not just that, Kerry is a socialist - the economy would be in tatters because he would be trying to please the unionists at the expense of the economy. I do not want the highschool debate captain, I want a leader who can do what he says and beat the crap out of the bad guys if need be.
From the implementation point of view, they still face some problems.
For instance, they have used Caesium atoms to perform the storage - because it is neutral (therefore is unaffected by electric and magnetic fields), and it's an Alkali atom that can be manipulated using wave dipoles.
Great.
But Caesium _cannot_ form Bose Einstein Condensates. Therefore, you'll have problems performing quantum entanglement on such a system. Which would make it harder for us to build error correcting codes and a bunch of other things:-/
Ofcourse, people have used Rubidium to solve this problem before (w.r.t. building a BEC using an element that can also be manipulated using wave dipoles) -- but the specifications of this particular experiment do not seem to show that this is possible.
Which kinda really sucks, but I sure as hell am hoping that things get better:-)
Slashdot Mirror
It's a choice we'll have to make at some point of time or the other.
Do we let millions upon millions die _after_ they've matured into full humans, or do we save them by killing millions upon millions before they are anything more than a mass of cells?
Another thing to think about is this - so many millions in this world are killed everyday due to poverty, disease and strife - are we being fair in spending money on this rather than that?
I could go on so forth ad infinitum, but the point remains that this is progress, and if it can save the life of a full grown man at the expense of an embryos, it's a hard but decisive choice.
I'm certain that sooner or later, a way of coming up with stem-cells in ways other than using embroys will come up - but we will not reach that point unless we're willing to give it a shot, and try our hand at it.
Science at the outset often seems unfair, even barbaric. But in the end, the result is often worth it, beautiful even!
Argh!
:p
Why, can't they be people three or more?
Binary bastard!
What crap.
:)
There is enough and more space in the world. It's just our cities which are crowded. Next time, take a drive around to the wilderness and outlands a few miles off your city and you'd notice how much free space is out there.
The only thing of worry is the crunch it may have on our natural resources, but I'm sure we'll find a way around it. Afterall, our species has shown the most resilience only when pushed to our limits.
It's going to be a long century, and at the moment, this kind of thing isn't safe either privatized or government regulated.
Yes, that's why they have bureas of ethical issues regulating this stuff. They have not even approved this, and it is not known if they will - this is merely an application seeking permission for _research_.
And read this (emphasis mine) -
Jennings said Harvard had raised "substantial" funds for the experiment from private philanthropies, but declined to name them. "There are a lot of people who have the resources and who are very keen to see this sort of work go ahead," he said in a telephone interview. "This is not commercial research."
It's just research for science's sake. I do not see anything evil in their intent, except for the fact that it may help several people with disabilities lead a normal life.
And besides, the reason I replied to your question - stem cell research is _not_ just to increase your longetivity. It can also help people with severe neurological disabilities. I've a cousin who has not gotten out of her bed ever since she has been of 4 years of age, for the past 18 years. I would do anything to see her walk, so would her parents.
For that reason alone, I would like to see this work progress. Go science!
Here're the Yahoo! blurb and the NZ Herald stories.
If you've read the article, you'd have seen this -
None of the proposed experiments involves attempts to produce a cloned person.
So, no. They're not going to have clones, atleat not yet.
Goodluck on your search, though.
Why?
:-p
She reads Slashdot too?
Yeah, reminds me of the line from JWZ's website -
When we started this company [Netscape], we were out to change the world. And we did that. Without us, the change probably would have happened anyway, maybe six months or a year later, and who-knows-what would have played out differently. But we were the ones who actually did it. When you see URLs on grocery bags, on billboards, on the sides of trucks, at the end of movie credits just after the studio logos -- that was us, we did that. We put the Internet in the hands of normal people. We kick-started a new communications medium. We changed the world.
Indeed. They very much were the ones who brought the WWW to the masses.
Dad?
Is that you?
Well, makes sense.
If some of them were undercover agents, their lives might be in danger for all you know.
If I were an undercover agent and if photographs of me were on the web showing me in places where I ought not to be, it's quite understandable.
But what I do not understandable is why they would do this in a way that gets them so much attention. I mean, now all those pictures would be all over the place and would be quite uncontrollable. It would have the opposite effect of what they intended.
Weird. Or maybe I'm missing something. Or maybe I just need more coffee.
...instead of Vodka :-(
Maybe they should send over John Carmack. With a rocket launcher ;)
I hear he's good at those things.
It's the woman helping woman thing, trust me. You know? When they have that time of the month and stuff, it's easier for a woman to "emphathise" and provide certain types of support, that you know, we all see in those nice reality shows.
Right, boys?
The funny thing is that the latest National Geographic's Adventure contained a question from a hiker who had asked if he could train himself to have less water. The question was answered by a seasoned Everest explorer who also happened to be a doctor.
Apparently, it does not make any difference because your body releases certain chemicals under those stressful situations that helps you adapt, and there is no way you can artificially force your body to release those. He also mentioned that while you may try living on a colder condition to prepare for an Arctic exploration or try living in hot weather to prepare yourself for a desert situation, your body's physical needs (water, food, etc) cannot really be altered that much.
Those are largely dependent on food habits you were raised on, your body mass and a lot of other things. Can't seem to find the article online, though.
Bah, once you unleash the power of the Awesome Russian Vodka (TM), Alexandar, Sasha, Dmitry, Vladimir are all one and the same.
I mean, almost every other Russian guy I've known is either a Vladimir or a Dmitry or an Alexandar (Sasha). And boy, I know atleast 5 Russian women named Anastasia. Must be the Vodka, am sure.
Yes, think of the possibilities for pranks :-p
;-)
Wire it up to a dog or something, and I'm sure you'd not exactly like what you'd be seeing
On the other hand, if you do... I pity the people you live with.
I'm guessing that maybe he has his own reasons that he does not want to divulge?
Especially given the current sue-happy folks who're looking at suing everything that is Open Source, maybe Linus is just playing it safe.
For all you know, he's trying to see if there are any IP violations before accepting them into the code-base. You never know.
The probability of the latest "funny.sh" spreading is a lot lower than the funny.exe.
And besides, all it takes is adding alias rm='rm -i' in the
You can never really eliminate the human stupidity factor, but what you can do is decrease its ill effects.
True, I agree with you in all entirety. However, it's a vicious circle - people personally have a lot of trouble taking to non-MS products, especially after they've been used to MS products. When you hire someone and give them a non-Office product, they will complain to the fullest possible extent, and sometimes their complaining is quite justified since Linux is a very different operating system from Windows.
They have trouble understanding paths - one user could not understand why she did not have C:\ - and since we do not usually give them admin access, they try creating files and folders in places where they aren't allowed to, etc.
There are a lot of problems that I could go on and on about, but the basic fact is that it is different and it's an inherent resistance. And when these people decide to leave and go to another place, companies do not know or understand what OpenOffice is - which complicates their problems. You'd be surprised, but a lot of backoffice folks are aware of this problem and some would refuse to take up a job if they are asked to use non-Office products.
Really blows, but that's reality for you.
That's the problem. Rather than have 200 copies of VMWare plus the overheads, it's easier to dual boot into Windows. Not to mention the technical support problems that would crop up among other issues.
:-)
Useful as it may have been for us, for most people, VMWare would be an overkill.
It really sucks, I remember the time when VMWare used to actually free. We showcased running Linux off Windows off Linux and a few applications based on that, on a 500 MhZ processor. Ah, those were the days
And you forget the most important advantage -
When stupid users open that latest Funny.exe file, nothing happens! For that one reason alone, I think a Linux destktop would rock.
But the advantage of Windows is more psychological and social - there are jobs where if you put, 5 experience working in MS Excel would get you the job - however, people would not know what OpenOffice is at all. So, from that point of view, people may not really like switching over. It's got to be a gradual process, where they are first acquainted with the fact that an alternative exists, and then move on.
Well, I've been in a similar situation.
:-)
However, the department I was in was almost entirely into *nix development, but we would have to do some kinda stuff related to Windows from time to time.
We also learnt that it's quite useful for you to have some kinda virtual machine like VMWare on your box, to boot into alternate OSes. Really really useful.
And the problem is that it's really hard being in the development industry with only Linux -- sooner or later, you're going to run into some client who'd ask you for development on the Windows platform. And it's not as simple as saying, sorry, we don't do Windows
Well said, thank you. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Not just that, Kerry is a socialist - the economy would be in tatters because he would be trying to please the unionists at the expense of the economy. I do not want the highschool debate captain, I want a leader who can do what he says and beat the crap out of the bad guys if need be.
And btw, am not the parent poster you replied to.
From the implementation point of view, they still face some problems.
:-/
:-)
For instance, they have used Caesium atoms to perform the storage - because it is neutral (therefore is unaffected by electric and magnetic fields), and it's an Alkali atom that can be manipulated using wave dipoles.
Great.
But Caesium _cannot_ form Bose Einstein Condensates. Therefore, you'll have problems performing quantum entanglement on such a system. Which would make it harder for us to build error correcting codes and a bunch of other things
Ofcourse, people have used Rubidium to solve this problem before (w.r.t. building a BEC using an element that can also be manipulated using wave dipoles) -- but the specifications of this particular experiment do not seem to show that this is possible.
Which kinda really sucks, but I sure as hell am hoping that things get better
Aww come on, cheer up. Look at the brighter side, the superpowers haven't used it yet (except the first one time, but that doesn't count).
Although I'd not call Novell a superpower, let's hope they don't. And while I'm at it, here's to powerpuff girls!