This and other posts discussing corporate culture, but using the US medical & hospital system as an example...OH MY GOD. Could you pick a WORSE example? Or are you begging for another endless argument about the problems with a private madical system in the first place?
All I will say is THANK GOD I'm a canadian so I don't even have to THINK of this kind of bullshit. Primary medical care is a basic need, and ONLY the best people for the job should be hired and retained. There is NO logical argument to the contrary here, unless you don't value life.
(Minor troll, but true nonetheless: It's quite apparent that the US as an entity does NOT value life whatsoever)
I've always had a huge problem with the implications of this argument, and where it has led us.
When I was a kid, yes, it was all about rocket powered roller skates et al. Slapstick silliness. Violent yes. But also obviously ludicrous, no parallels in the real world.
What cartoons are presented to kids now though? The ludicrous has been replaced with the realistic. The non-existent anvil has been replaced with the omnipresent gun. There is absolutely blatant and obvious realistic and plausible violence in cartoons now. The fact that they are cartoons was never the point, good or bad, though it is purported to be still to this day. Oh, it's a cartoon, kids know the difference.
It has NOTHING to do with the media chosen to present the content. It is ALL about the content.
Yesterdays violent cartoons were entertaining. Todays violent cartoons disgust me.
How about games? Compare the games from when we were kids to the crap targetted at our kids today. It's impossible to ignore. My job as a parent is VERY hard these days. I can't trust ANY published games/movies/shows without seeing it all first hand for myself. I KNOW that my child is not capable of making the distinctions between reality and make believe, because again, the difference is NOT IN THE MEDIA, the difference is in what is being presented, and what's presented to children via 'cartoon' is identical to what is presented to adults, but minus the dialog and drama and heavy on the very real violence.
Now wait a sec, before you go off on me for whatever reason, let me mention what really gets me the most about this. This shit wouldn't exist if it were for GOOD PARENTS AND ROLE MODELS. I take FULL responsibility for my childs upbringing. If everyone did, there would be no market whatsoever for this crap and it would cease to exist.
Lastly, as for the consept of reality vs make believe and whether children can differentiate: Yes, absolutely they can, when one is obviously make believe and the other isn't. But again, it's in the CONTENT, NOT in the Media. To reiterate one last time: Just because something is presented in a cartoon does NOT make it absolutely distinguishable as fantasy. Heck, as proof, there are many non-makebelieve cartoons out there.
So according to MS, the key goal of an Open XML Document Standard is...performance? Specifically, speed of opening in a particular APPLICATION?
Holy Shit. It should be illegal to spew forth utter bullshit twisted crap such as this. It's disgusting. What's worse, people swallow the shit.
Not surprised, since the goal is actually to produce a standard document format that Works Consistently Always, rather than Loads Immediately But Isn't Useful Or What You Needed Or Wanted Or Saved In The First Place piece of crap.
Man I wish people were universally equipped with natural BS detectors, the world would be a much better place.
Asshat, read the fucking thread before you continue to make the blatant mistake that I'm STILL trying to get you to see. I DIDN'T MENTION MEDIA CENTRE UNTIL YOU GUYS INSESRTED IT PURPOSELY INTO THIS CONVERSATION TO DERAIL IT.
I only opened up discussion on the media centre front to try to ensure no one bought the bullshit derailment thrown at the conversation.
It was NOT ME that called the PS2 a media centre. It was NOT ME that placed a predefined absolute definition of what a 'media centre' is in the conversation with the intent of showing that I'm an idiot for having found a useful product in the PS2.
I started this conversation by stating MY OWN OPINION on the PS2 based on PERSONAL EMPIRICAL OBSERVATIONS of the product over the PAST 5 YEARS.
Fuckwit, next time you want to join a conversation, join the conversation, don't turn it into something else for your own fucked up agenda.
Re:Its not the best, it attracts the baseline game
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Vanguard Beta In Trouble?
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Bullshit.
WoW for case in point.
No you can't sell something that people have zero interest in, but the game is not what it is marketed as or purported to be by the company that created it.
The game was very carefully designed to suck you in, and require just enough of your time, to get you hooked and keep you paying that monthly fee...these decisions were absolutely NOT made by a group of people sitting around going, what is the BEST rpg we can put together given this IP. A large number of the mechanics and balancing in there are PURELY designed to optimize the funds they suck out of their customers wallets.
Charging FULL PRICE for the boxed game, which is useless without adding on monthly fees, holy shit it's one of the most expensive games EVER PRODUCED. Yeah, and that's purely a function of what it took to produce the perfect game for it's costomers. Wrong. That's what it took to produce the perfect game for it's shareholders.
There are games that are purely designed to make the best game possible. There are games that are purely designed to generate revenue. And there are a lot in the middle.
I don't know about you, but the very best games I've ever played fall in the first category. WoW ain't one of em, by a LONG shot.
Hehe, that was my thought too...Oblivion on a console? Riiiight...
A friend of mine has it for the 360 though, and I've spent a good bit of time comparing them. This is certainly not proof that the 360 is already technically dated because the game was written for the PC and packaged thereafter for the 360...but it's not like a full on port since the 360 is just a pc, scaled down in some places, scaled up in others. Mostly down though.
If you get a chance to play oblivion on a (relatively) state of the art PC...well, there's just no comparison, not even close. We're talking a factor like PS1 - PS2 quality here. It's OK on the 360, but deffinately nothing special (unless only compared to previous console games)...and it's load times are along the lines of what one usually expects out of a FPS.
On my rig though...there are zero load hiccups even when travelling around, couple second load times for total displacements or load from save, jaw dropping graphics and rock solid framerates at high res and settings. (I won't lie, it's not running 90fps or anything, I'm running it around 60, not quite maxed out on the settings, but you have NEVER seen this much stuff on screen all at once. There is real grass swaying in the wind everywhere you look, trees and leaves fluttering...stuff that was there on the 360, but only sort of.
If you liked it on the 360, you have to try it on a reasonably recent pc. You will absolutely be blown away:)
Then lets be clear in our distinctions here. Are we discussing the viability of game mechanics? Or are we discussing a companies business model and it's ability to generate as much revenue as possible?
I wasn't really arguing against those like you, I know you exist and appreciate your point of view:)
I'm arguing against those that can't make the distinctions that you do. Those that condemn WoW while stating they are RPG purists, or those that worship WoW because of it's obvious RPG goodness. Thankfully, there are some people out there that realize that WoW is simply an online game, and that there are also some people that enjoy it for what it is, never mind the crap:)
We're on the same page, I just didn't frame it quite right.
You SO twisted that comment to meet your own needs.
Pulling wanting to watch a crappy movie for whatever reason, but just not being willing to pay big bucks to see it when it's hardly worthy of being broadcast on the boob tube, to insinuating that somehow these people expect to drive audi's for free...get off the crack.
He was asked why does this problem exist if no one wants to watch this crap? And he stated that in fact some people DO want to watch this crap, just not pay more than it's worth to do so...you start by completely invalidating that even though it was right on the money given what was asked.
Then start to berade all of us for wanting to have everything for free? That's a lot of logic leaps there buddy, and bloody fucking ignorant if you ask me.
What an obviously biased and jaded pile of crap, if I may say so.
What your personal dislike of movies and cd's has to do with whether any good movies or music is made any more, and further, what the MPAA and RIAA have to do with any of that...crazy talk man, pure crazy talk.
If you like to be spoon fed crap, then yes, maybe all that exists for you is the MPAA and RIAA. If you actually enjoy good movies or music, then you obviously know that there is a heck of a lot more out there. Don't cry 'no choice so chose nothing', that's a cop out and you're lying to yourself and us.
My pc absolutely outperforms a 360, hands down, not even a contest. My gfx is a generation (granted, not a major generation) ahead, and highly optimized. Granted, being honest here, I paid the equivalent of a 360 to only get the gfx card and monitor, but the entire rest of my PC was only ~800, and I use it for one heck of a lot more than a console. It also provides me with the ability to upgrade over the next FEW generations, while the current consoles get old and tired.
It is a moving target, one that's always been a gamble, but having been through it numerous times, I have enough ammo to make a pretty good decision.
Back in the PS1 days, I bought a PS1. It was outdated within the year. When Unreal came out, it was time for a bleeding edge PC. Dual VoodooII here we come;). I upgraded that machine over the livecycle of the PS1. Then the PS2 came out. It has only been very recently that PC hardware has really made the PS2 look obviously dated. Made the right decision there too. Most games for PC in that time period were easily handled acceptably by fairly generic gfx cards, where the consoles just kept pushing the limits of their own hardware in increasingly stunning ways.
This time around, well, both the 360 and PS3 are really just PC's, but minus a lot of features and locked in at their current specs. Since it takes so long to actually get a final console to market, and since there is currently another big surge in gfx tech, mostly driven by monitor advancements, this round of the console wars has already lost in the tech arena to PC's, hands down, and the PS3 hasn't even come to market.
Anyways, that's just the reasons that influence my personal purchasing decisions, and completely ignores the most important aspect, the games! I never would have bought a PS2 if it weren't for the likes of FF7, Tony Hawk, GTA etc. I also wouldn't have just tricked out my PC rig for state of the art gaming again if it weren't for HL2, Oblivion, Quake4 on the horizon etc:) I'm really just catching the best wave for my own desires. But on a business standfront, Nintendo appears to be the only one actually making a console anymore, and the only one still in that particular market. As we've now agreed though, that does not mean Nintendo suddenly will gain sony or MS's market shares, by any means, unless they start competing on the game front for their markets. Nintendo won't do that, it's not their market and they're smart enough to realize this:)
WoW is not impressive by most veteran RPGers, by any stretch of the imagination. WoW is first and foremost designed as a time, and by extension via their payment model, a money sink. Period.
There is nothing innovative, new, or interesting in WoW. It does package up everything that is tried and true in the area with a nice pink bow though in just such a way as to hit that lowest common denominator as hard as possible.
There's simply no way those same 5.5 million lemmings would have any clue whatsoever about how the mechanics of a truely advanced RPG work, and why.
I'll regret this, but I'll bring up Oblivion now. I'm playing it. I love it. I don't care what the detractors say, it is the most original RPG to come along in a VERY long time. Despite what they say, it absolutely IS an RPG. Advanced D&D it is not, get over it. But dumbed down for the masses it is not either. It is accessible to the masses, and can be reasonably played simply as a 'hack n slash' with rpg elements, but at it's core is the most original RPG system to come along in a VERY long time. For those that care to, there is a LOT to delve in to there.
Interestingly, the WoWers et al are ripping this game to shreds. Almost all of the horrible reviews or comments I've read about Oblivion can be traced back to either a) someone that thinks it should have been WoW or b) someone that thinks it should have been AD&D to a t, nothing more and nothing less. Quite obviously, for anyone with half a brain, Oblivion is neither of these in any way shape or form, and never was intended to be...in other words, Quit bitching because it wasn't made for you anyways!
(Let's not drag this in the wrong direction now because I brought up Oblivion though, I am not professing anything about it short of what I specifically stated, other than my comparisons made, it is completely irrelevant to the conversation, and I offer no opinions whatsoever on the game itself beyond this)
Since we're obviously discussing elements of RPG's here...why is WoW even mentioned, at all?
The article is pretty specific that the problem is with testers that want the game to be absolutely nothing like WoW in any way shape or form...but WoW is just an RPG...how can one make an RPG with absolutely ZERO elements in common with WoW? WoW presents absolutely NOTHING original to the genre, not a god damned thing.
Sounds to me like these people don't want an RPG, but the developer is making an RPG and trying to appease these people. See my other post for what's really going wrong here.
That's the problem here though, with the huge surge in popularity of MMOGs, it is simply impossible to test these games on the scale they were designed to operate without opening up testing to the very people that will, hopefully, buy your game in the end.
There would simply be no way to get enough developers testing your game for enough time to be of any relative use at all, let alone get any real testing done...never mind that these developers are working too many hours on their own games at the same time. (Don't get me started on the state of the working environment in the game industry!)
This is not a good thing. In fact, it is a very bad thing, but no other solution has been found at this point unfortunately. There are things that can help though, a lot.
The beta testers of any big game need to be moderated. Money needs to be put into moderating your testers, plain and simple. Are you really getting any testing done if you have no control over the process or the data? The biggest mistake game developers make is to 'release' a game to open beta testing. That's usually the extent of it: Come sign up, help us test it...end of story. Gee, I wonder why that attracts every useless twit fanboy out there.
What SHOULD be done is full control should be taken over the process. People need to be paid to manage and moderate the process. Tester status should NOT be open to just anyone, and should be EXPECTED to be revokeable at any second, for ANY REASON. Further, this should only be attempted anyways when it is truly a MMO that is so complex, paying for standard testing would just not be feasible.
Take control of the process, or deal with the consequences. Please for the love of god though, quit whining about this being the result, YOU created the mess, deal with the consequences.
Lastly, and this is more of a question, but does open testing like this tend to help future sales in any way? I'd be shocked if it does. Hard thing to evaluate, but I'd be VERY surprised if this kind of practice didn't actually result in LESS sales once shipped as everyone that was curious has already had a taste without having to pay, and might have even been scared away permanently simply because the beta experience was so horrible.
(Now, that is assuming that we're discussing an MMO environ where people behave any better after the game is actually released...my biggest reason for avoiding most like the plague)
Are we discussing the developer history of the various game companies?
Are you making an assuption that I am a Nintendo fan boy?
Here's a clue: I won't be buying a Wii, unless it's still a viable system when my son is old enough to reasonably want a game console or a couple killer games not geared towards children only come out for it.
Who cares in the context of this discussion HOW sony got into the gaming market, this is more about how they're potentially about to EXIT the market, sheesh.
There you go, stating opinion as fact again. jeesus.
In my experience, having used it hugely over the past 6 years, and more recently, having a 3 year old abuse it, the PS2 has a perfectly fine DVD player. What more should it do than offer all of the standard dvd player features? Or does a 'good' dvd player make you dinner too?
Further, where the hell did I bring up and define a media centre such as you state I'm arguing? Where the hell did I state the PS2 was a media centre by YOUR definition? By any definition actually, but I could easily argue it is. It plays MEDIA. Not only that, it plays MULTIPLE TYPES OF MEDIA. I'd call that a fucking media centre you fuckwit. What dvd players out there have recording capabilities? Where did that come from? Jesus, why am I even bothering, I'm obviously being trolled.
Read your original reply again please. It very much comes across as 'You're wrong, I'm right, because I want this...'. It deffinately does NOT come across as 'Maybe that works for you, but in my experience I have other needs that that does not fulfill'.
You're sort of right, but you're pulling in another argument into this discussion.
But even then, you are propagating a fallacy now. While your argument held solid in the past, games are becoming less and less tied to a particular console. Sure, you might not like the games available for the wii...I never stated that everyone was going to buy a wii instead of a ps3 or xbox 360...I stated that less people will buy the PS3 this time around. That is an important distinction.
Personally, I'll be happy with my PS2 and it's associated PS1/PS2 game library for a good number of years, and relegate my bleeding edge gaming this time around to the PC, a decision I made back in January when I bought myself a beautiful 23" widescreen monitor and a 7800gs to drive it. Last generation, I chose to buy a PS2 instead of upgrading my PC, this time my PC gets the love...and oh the love it returns. There is simply no way at all that Sony can compete if they drive prices up even more, from a tech standpoint, I'm already surpassing the state of what will ship in the PS3. I'll live without the couple of games the PS3 may come out with that are killers...I've still got God of War 2 for the PS2 to look forward to, a few hundred hours of Oblivion on my PC, Quake 4 on the horizon...the plethora of HL2 mods and expansions coming down the pipe...ahh, and numerous music add ons for Guitar Hero for the PS2.
Sure, there will be killer aps for the PS3, but if that app comes out, instead of as in the past where it cost maybe $400 to get the game and the system...if it'll cost $800 or so to get the latest Final Fantasy or whatever...I'm not the only one that will cease to care. Yes, some will still pay stupid prices, but most won't.
Where did I mention the specific need for any particular set of features?
I'm wrong because this fictional box you've just created won't do a particular thing? This box that doesn't even exist? This feature that I personally, and perhaps others, don't even care about? Never mind the fact that that could be a nice little feature for PS3 or something, who knows.
Yeah, I'm a fucking idiot because I only bought a PS2, and it works for me, and would like more products like that. WTF?
Slashdot Mirror
Bill Gates! What an honour! Nice to meet you here!
;)
Yes, I know it's you, who else would have modded that as Troll
This and other posts discussing corporate culture, but using the US medical & hospital system as an example...OH MY GOD. Could you pick a WORSE example? Or are you begging for another endless argument about the problems with a private madical system in the first place?
All I will say is THANK GOD I'm a canadian so I don't even have to THINK of this kind of bullshit. Primary medical care is a basic need, and ONLY the best people for the job should be hired and retained. There is NO logical argument to the contrary here, unless you don't value life.
(Minor troll, but true nonetheless: It's quite apparent that the US as an entity does NOT value life whatsoever)
I've always had a huge problem with the implications of this argument, and where it has led us.
When I was a kid, yes, it was all about rocket powered roller skates et al. Slapstick silliness. Violent yes. But also obviously ludicrous, no parallels in the real world.
What cartoons are presented to kids now though? The ludicrous has been replaced with the realistic. The non-existent anvil has been replaced with the omnipresent gun. There is absolutely blatant and obvious realistic and plausible violence in cartoons now. The fact that they are cartoons was never the point, good or bad, though it is purported to be still to this day. Oh, it's a cartoon, kids know the difference.
It has NOTHING to do with the media chosen to present the content. It is ALL about the content.
Yesterdays violent cartoons were entertaining. Todays violent cartoons disgust me.
How about games? Compare the games from when we were kids to the crap targetted at our kids today. It's impossible to ignore. My job as a parent is VERY hard these days. I can't trust ANY published games/movies/shows without seeing it all first hand for myself. I KNOW that my child is not capable of making the distinctions between reality and make believe, because again, the difference is NOT IN THE MEDIA, the difference is in what is being presented, and what's presented to children via 'cartoon' is identical to what is presented to adults, but minus the dialog and drama and heavy on the very real violence.
Now wait a sec, before you go off on me for whatever reason, let me mention what really gets me the most about this. This shit wouldn't exist if it were for GOOD PARENTS AND ROLE MODELS. I take FULL responsibility for my childs upbringing. If everyone did, there would be no market whatsoever for this crap and it would cease to exist.
Lastly, as for the consept of reality vs make believe and whether children can differentiate: Yes, absolutely they can, when one is obviously make believe and the other isn't. But again, it's in the CONTENT, NOT in the Media. To reiterate one last time: Just because something is presented in a cartoon does NOT make it absolutely distinguishable as fantasy. Heck, as proof, there are many non-makebelieve cartoons out there.
Why does it become Novell or MS's fault for how one's third party is installed and configured?
I'm all for MS bashing, but only when it's in line. This is a PEBKAC plain and simple.
So according to MS, the key goal of an Open XML Document Standard is...performance? Specifically, speed of opening in a particular APPLICATION?
Holy Shit. It should be illegal to spew forth utter bullshit twisted crap such as this. It's disgusting. What's worse, people swallow the shit.
Not surprised, since the goal is actually to produce a standard document format that Works Consistently Always, rather than Loads Immediately But Isn't Useful Or What You Needed Or Wanted Or Saved In The First Place piece of crap.
Man I wish people were universally equipped with natural BS detectors, the world would be a much better place.
Asshat, read the fucking thread before you continue to make the blatant mistake that I'm STILL trying to get you to see. I DIDN'T MENTION MEDIA CENTRE UNTIL YOU GUYS INSESRTED IT PURPOSELY INTO THIS CONVERSATION TO DERAIL IT.
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Go Here and read it again in context: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=186656&cid=15
I only opened up discussion on the media centre front to try to ensure no one bought the bullshit derailment thrown at the conversation.
It was NOT ME that called the PS2 a media centre.
It was NOT ME that placed a predefined absolute definition of what a 'media centre' is in the conversation with the intent of showing that I'm an idiot for having found a useful product in the PS2.
I started this conversation by stating MY OWN OPINION on the PS2 based on PERSONAL EMPIRICAL OBSERVATIONS of the product over the PAST 5 YEARS.
Fuckwit, next time you want to join a conversation, join the conversation, don't turn it into something else for your own fucked up agenda.
Bullshit.
WoW for case in point.
No you can't sell something that people have zero interest in, but the game is not what it is marketed as or purported to be by the company that created it.
The game was very carefully designed to suck you in, and require just enough of your time, to get you hooked and keep you paying that monthly fee...these decisions were absolutely NOT made by a group of people sitting around going, what is the BEST rpg we can put together given this IP. A large number of the mechanics and balancing in there are PURELY designed to optimize the funds they suck out of their customers wallets.
Charging FULL PRICE for the boxed game, which is useless without adding on monthly fees, holy shit it's one of the most expensive games EVER PRODUCED. Yeah, and that's purely a function of what it took to produce the perfect game for it's costomers. Wrong. That's what it took to produce the perfect game for it's shareholders.
There are games that are purely designed to make the best game possible. There are games that are purely designed to generate revenue. And there are a lot in the middle.
I don't know about you, but the very best games I've ever played fall in the first category. WoW ain't one of em, by a LONG shot.
Hehe, that was my thought too...Oblivion on a console? Riiiight...
:)
A friend of mine has it for the 360 though, and I've spent a good bit of time comparing them. This is certainly not proof that the 360 is already technically dated because the game was written for the PC and packaged thereafter for the 360...but it's not like a full on port since the 360 is just a pc, scaled down in some places, scaled up in others. Mostly down though.
If you get a chance to play oblivion on a (relatively) state of the art PC...well, there's just no comparison, not even close. We're talking a factor like PS1 - PS2 quality here. It's OK on the 360, but deffinately nothing special (unless only compared to previous console games)...and it's load times are along the lines of what one usually expects out of a FPS.
On my rig though...there are zero load hiccups even when travelling around, couple second load times for total displacements or load from save, jaw dropping graphics and rock solid framerates at high res and settings. (I won't lie, it's not running 90fps or anything, I'm running it around 60, not quite maxed out on the settings, but you have NEVER seen this much stuff on screen all at once. There is real grass swaying in the wind everywhere you look, trees and leaves fluttering...stuff that was there on the 360, but only sort of.
If you liked it on the 360, you have to try it on a reasonably recent pc. You will absolutely be blown away
Then lets be clear in our distinctions here. Are we discussing the viability of game mechanics? Or are we discussing a companies business model and it's ability to generate as much revenue as possible?
Let's not confuse the two.
I wasn't really arguing against those like you, I know you exist and appreciate your point of view :)
:)
I'm arguing against those that can't make the distinctions that you do. Those that condemn WoW while stating they are RPG purists, or those that worship WoW because of it's obvious RPG goodness. Thankfully, there are some people out there that realize that WoW is simply an online game, and that there are also some people that enjoy it for what it is, never mind the crap
We're on the same page, I just didn't frame it quite right.
No one was arguing that particularly troublesome point until you insisted on injecting it into the conversation, thanks.
You SO twisted that comment to meet your own needs.
Pulling wanting to watch a crappy movie for whatever reason, but just not being willing to pay big bucks to see it when it's hardly worthy of being broadcast on the boob tube, to insinuating that somehow these people expect to drive audi's for free...get off the crack.
He was asked why does this problem exist if no one wants to watch this crap? And he stated that in fact some people DO want to watch this crap, just not pay more than it's worth to do so...you start by completely invalidating that even though it was right on the money given what was asked.
Then start to berade all of us for wanting to have everything for free? That's a lot of logic leaps there buddy, and bloody fucking ignorant if you ask me.
What an obviously biased and jaded pile of crap, if I may say so.
What your personal dislike of movies and cd's has to do with whether any good movies or music is made any more, and further, what the MPAA and RIAA have to do with any of that...crazy talk man, pure crazy talk.
If you like to be spoon fed crap, then yes, maybe all that exists for you is the MPAA and RIAA. If you actually enjoy good movies or music, then you obviously know that there is a heck of a lot more out there. Don't cry 'no choice so chose nothing', that's a cop out and you're lying to yourself and us.
My pc absolutely outperforms a 360, hands down, not even a contest. My gfx is a generation (granted, not a major generation) ahead, and highly optimized. Granted, being honest here, I paid the equivalent of a 360 to only get the gfx card and monitor, but the entire rest of my PC was only ~800, and I use it for one heck of a lot more than a console. It also provides me with the ability to upgrade over the next FEW generations, while the current consoles get old and tired.
;). I upgraded that machine over the livecycle of the PS1. Then the PS2 came out. It has only been very recently that PC hardware has really made the PS2 look obviously dated. Made the right decision there too. Most games for PC in that time period were easily handled acceptably by fairly generic gfx cards, where the consoles just kept pushing the limits of their own hardware in increasingly stunning ways.
:) I'm really just catching the best wave for my own desires. But on a business standfront, Nintendo appears to be the only one actually making a console anymore, and the only one still in that particular market. As we've now agreed though, that does not mean Nintendo suddenly will gain sony or MS's market shares, by any means, unless they start competing on the game front for their markets. Nintendo won't do that, it's not their market and they're smart enough to realize this :)
It is a moving target, one that's always been a gamble, but having been through it numerous times, I have enough ammo to make a pretty good decision.
Back in the PS1 days, I bought a PS1. It was outdated within the year. When Unreal came out, it was time for a bleeding edge PC. Dual VoodooII here we come
This time around, well, both the 360 and PS3 are really just PC's, but minus a lot of features and locked in at their current specs. Since it takes so long to actually get a final console to market, and since there is currently another big surge in gfx tech, mostly driven by monitor advancements, this round of the console wars has already lost in the tech arena to PC's, hands down, and the PS3 hasn't even come to market.
Anyways, that's just the reasons that influence my personal purchasing decisions, and completely ignores the most important aspect, the games! I never would have bought a PS2 if it weren't for the likes of FF7, Tony Hawk, GTA etc. I also wouldn't have just tricked out my PC rig for state of the art gaming again if it weren't for HL2, Oblivion, Quake4 on the horizon etc
Your right, who would ever sit down and play a game of AD&D now that WoW has proven what everyone actually wants to play.
Why must there only be one of something? There is no one way to do things. These are games. Man, what stupid arguments.
'...who doesn't have a lot of time'...
OK, we know you're on crack so we can ignor everything else you have to say.
What's WoW's nick again? Yeah, you got it.
Not a time sucker, my GOD have you been had...how much have they sucked out of your wallet?
Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself.
WoW is not impressive by most veteran RPGers, by any stretch of the imagination.
WoW is first and foremost designed as a time, and by extension via their payment model, a money sink. Period.
There is nothing innovative, new, or interesting in WoW. It does package up everything that is tried and true in the area with a nice pink bow though in just such a way as to hit that lowest common denominator as hard as possible.
There's simply no way those same 5.5 million lemmings would have any clue whatsoever about how the mechanics of a truely advanced RPG work, and why.
I'll regret this, but I'll bring up Oblivion now. I'm playing it. I love it. I don't care what the detractors say, it is the most original RPG to come along in a VERY long time. Despite what they say, it absolutely IS an RPG. Advanced D&D it is not, get over it. But dumbed down for the masses it is not either. It is accessible to the masses, and can be reasonably played simply as a 'hack n slash' with rpg elements, but at it's core is the most original RPG system to come along in a VERY long time. For those that care to, there is a LOT to delve in to there.
Interestingly, the WoWers et al are ripping this game to shreds. Almost all of the horrible reviews or comments I've read about Oblivion can be traced back to either a) someone that thinks it should have been WoW or b) someone that thinks it should have been AD&D to a t, nothing more and nothing less. Quite obviously, for anyone with half a brain, Oblivion is neither of these in any way shape or form, and never was intended to be...in other words, Quit bitching because it wasn't made for you anyways!
(Let's not drag this in the wrong direction now because I brought up Oblivion though, I am not professing anything about it short of what I specifically stated, other than my comparisons made, it is completely irrelevant to the conversation, and I offer no opinions whatsoever on the game itself beyond this)
Since we're obviously discussing elements of RPG's here...why is WoW even mentioned, at all?
The article is pretty specific that the problem is with testers that want the game to be absolutely nothing like WoW in any way shape or form...but WoW is just an RPG...how can one make an RPG with absolutely ZERO elements in common with WoW? WoW presents absolutely NOTHING original to the genre, not a god damned thing.
Sounds to me like these people don't want an RPG, but the developer is making an RPG and trying to appease these people. See my other post for what's really going wrong here.
That's the problem here though, with the huge surge in popularity of MMOGs, it is simply impossible to test these games on the scale they were designed to operate without opening up testing to the very people that will, hopefully, buy your game in the end.
There would simply be no way to get enough developers testing your game for enough time to be of any relative use at all, let alone get any real testing done...never mind that these developers are working too many hours on their own games at the same time. (Don't get me started on the state of the working environment in the game industry!)
This is not a good thing. In fact, it is a very bad thing, but no other solution has been found at this point unfortunately. There are things that can help though, a lot.
The beta testers of any big game need to be moderated. Money needs to be put into moderating your testers, plain and simple. Are you really getting any testing done if you have no control over the process or the data? The biggest mistake game developers make is to 'release' a game to open beta testing. That's usually the extent of it: Come sign up, help us test it...end of story. Gee, I wonder why that attracts every useless twit fanboy out there.
What SHOULD be done is full control should be taken over the process. People need to be paid to manage and moderate the process. Tester status should NOT be open to just anyone, and should be EXPECTED to be revokeable at any second, for ANY REASON. Further, this should only be attempted anyways when it is truly a MMO that is so complex, paying for standard testing would just not be feasible.
Take control of the process, or deal with the consequences. Please for the love of god though, quit whining about this being the result, YOU created the mess, deal with the consequences.
Lastly, and this is more of a question, but does open testing like this tend to help future sales in any way? I'd be shocked if it does. Hard thing to evaluate, but I'd be VERY surprised if this kind of practice didn't actually result in LESS sales once shipped as everyone that was curious has already had a taste without having to pay, and might have even been scared away permanently simply because the beta experience was so horrible.
(Now, that is assuming that we're discussing an MMO environ where people behave any better after the game is actually released...my biggest reason for avoiding most like the plague)
What was being discussed? GAME CONSOLES.
Who's confused?
Are we discussing the developer history of the various game companies?
Are you making an assuption that I am a Nintendo fan boy?
Here's a clue: I won't be buying a Wii, unless it's still a viable system when my son is old enough to reasonably want a game console or a couple killer games not geared towards children only come out for it.
Who cares in the context of this discussion HOW sony got into the gaming market, this is more about how they're potentially about to EXIT the market, sheesh.
Argument for the sake of argument.
There you go, stating opinion as fact again. jeesus.
In my experience, having used it hugely over the past 6 years, and more recently, having a 3 year old abuse it, the PS2 has a perfectly fine DVD player. What more should it do than offer all of the standard dvd player features? Or does a 'good' dvd player make you dinner too?
Further, where the hell did I bring up and define a media centre such as you state I'm arguing? Where the hell did I state the PS2 was a media centre by YOUR definition? By any definition actually, but I could easily argue it is. It plays MEDIA. Not only that, it plays MULTIPLE TYPES OF MEDIA. I'd call that a fucking media centre you fuckwit. What dvd players out there have recording capabilities? Where did that come from? Jesus, why am I even bothering, I'm obviously being trolled.
Read your original reply again please. It very much comes across as 'You're wrong, I'm right, because I want this...'. It deffinately does NOT come across as 'Maybe that works for you, but in my experience I have other needs that that does not fulfill'.
You're sort of right, but you're pulling in another argument into this discussion.
But even then, you are propagating a fallacy now. While your argument held solid in the past, games are becoming less and less tied to a particular console. Sure, you might not like the games available for the wii...I never stated that everyone was going to buy a wii instead of a ps3 or xbox 360...I stated that less people will buy the PS3 this time around. That is an important distinction.
Personally, I'll be happy with my PS2 and it's associated PS1/PS2 game library for a good number of years, and relegate my bleeding edge gaming this time around to the PC, a decision I made back in January when I bought myself a beautiful 23" widescreen monitor and a 7800gs to drive it. Last generation, I chose to buy a PS2 instead of upgrading my PC, this time my PC gets the love...and oh the love it returns. There is simply no way at all that Sony can compete if they drive prices up even more, from a tech standpoint, I'm already surpassing the state of what will ship in the PS3. I'll live without the couple of games the PS3 may come out with that are killers...I've still got God of War 2 for the PS2 to look forward to, a few hundred hours of Oblivion on my PC, Quake 4 on the horizon...the plethora of HL2 mods and expansions coming down the pipe...ahh, and numerous music add ons for Guitar Hero for the PS2.
Sure, there will be killer aps for the PS3, but if that app comes out, instead of as in the past where it cost maybe $400 to get the game and the system...if it'll cost $800 or so to get the latest Final Fantasy or whatever...I'm not the only one that will cease to care. Yes, some will still pay stupid prices, but most won't.
Where did I mention the specific need for any particular set of features?
I'm wrong because this fictional box you've just created won't do a particular thing? This box that doesn't even exist? This feature that I personally, and perhaps others, don't even care about? Never mind the fact that that could be a nice little feature for PS3 or something, who knows.
Yeah, I'm a fucking idiot because I only bought a PS2, and it works for me, and would like more products like that. WTF?
Asshats the lot of you.