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Intern? Bloggers Need Not Apply

westlake writes "Short, funny, and to the point, a good read from the NYT about the realities of blogging in the corporate world." From the article: "Most experienced employees know: Thou Shalt Not Blab About the Company's Internal Business. But the line between what is public and what is private is increasingly fuzzy for young people comfortable with broadcasting nearly every aspect of their lives on the Web, posting pictures of their grandmother at graduation next to one of them eating whipped cream off a woman's belly. For them, shifting from a like-minded audience of peers to an intergenerational, hierarchical workplace can be jarring."

253 comments

  1. Yeah, it's real by Southpaw018 · · Score: 5, Funny

    My coworkers and I were sharing stories at lunch the other day; thankfully, my office is blissfuly absent of corporate culture ("professional, but relaxed"). A coworker who has a daughter my age said that when her daughter started working as a receptionist at a hospital, she came home after a few months on the job and said "Mom...you never told me Dilbert was real..."

    --
    ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
    1. Re:Yeah, it's real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently, irony is not your strong suit ...

    2. Re:Yeah, it's real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      to bad he can't see your post eh?

      or better yet, To bad you can't understand words when they are put together.

    3. Re:Yeah, it's real by Robocoastie · · Score: 1

      "For them, shifting from a like-minded audience of peers to an intergenerational, hierarchical workplace can be jarring."... Serves the companies right for anything that gets spilled on blogs. Perhaps their employees are sick and tired of being the last one to know anything about their company. One morning on the bus: Pete: Hey, Joe how do you like the new company? Joe: What are you mean? Pete: Well the Wall Street J here says Company X bought yours out. Joe: ehhhhh.... hmmm I wonder if I have a job to go to today???? end analogy. Seriously, its about time someone turned the tables on them for once.

    4. Re:Yeah, it's real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or better yet, To bad you can't understand words
      Did you dribble that? You can't even fucking spell 'too' and yet you sit there in your kermode dribbling half-baked insults like that? You're as much of an embarrassment as the pompous weenie.

    5. Re:Yeah, it's real by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Replies to your post are linked at the top of the front page.

      The troll will be seen.

  2. This article summed up in ten words: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't use your real name on your blog, you idiot!

    1. Re:This article summed up in ten words: by lottameez · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I disagree. You should use your real name 'cause it should keep you from saying something too stupid. Sooner or later you'll get outed anyways, and then you'll be wishing you hadn't bragged about doin' the football player's wife.

      Also, written content never dies, it just defines you for life. Ask any politician (that can write).

      --
      Yeah? Well I think you're overrated too.
    2. Re:This article summed up in ten words: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or:

      "Don't say stupid things on a public forum."

      Or both.

    3. Re:This article summed up in ten words: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hear! Hear!

      Nobody needs to know your name. Unless, of course, knowing who you are is the only thing that gives your life meaning... in which case, I probably don't want to hear whatever it is you are saying anyway!

      Why do you think I always post AC here?

    4. Re:This article summed up in ten words: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      9 words -- BLOG isn't a word.

    5. Re:This article summed up in ten words: by Columcille · · Score: 1

      Unless, of course, knowing who you are is the only thing that gives your life meaning...

      Which is where so many of our outspoken celebrities fit in. Nothing new to say, just a big name with which to say it.

      --
      I love my sig.
  3. Its all mentality by Ajehals · · Score: 1, Interesting
    People shouldnt be surprised, security is 20% technical 80% mentality. The "tell everyone everything" mentality is not good for security.

    However, not all bloggers share that mentality. And not all non bloggers are exempt from it so hey.

    blogs are at least a fantastic way to vet an employee before hiring.

    1. Re:Its all mentality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "tell everyone everything" mentality is not good for security. However, not all bloggers share that mentality. And not all non bloggers are exempt from it so hey.

      Personally, my blog is a pack of lies and has nothing to do about me nor reality. Of course it is easy because I get sent an email from corporate office of ideas and products I should support and those I should denouce. It pays the bills of course.

      There are days when I wish I could say my mind and talk about how my cat pees on the furniture or how I want to ask out that cute girl at the Suncoast Video store out of a date... And maybe debate the sad meaning of my pointless emo life, but alas...

      Its not easy being a shill.

  4. That MySpace blog is there for everyone to see by Jim+in+Buffalo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't know if it's all that different from when I was first entering the workplace, but today's youngsters put it all out there. I don't know where kids get the idea that the only ones who would ever look at their MySpace blogs are people in their own age group.

    --
    This sig, aah-ah, is comin' like a ghost-sig...
    1. Re:That MySpace blog is there for everyone to see by kkiller · · Score: 1

      Isn't this kind of problem what LiveJournal's "Friends Only" posting feature meant to tackle? MySpace must have this kind of functionality, surely?

    2. Re:That MySpace blog is there for everyone to see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nup

      it sucks

    3. Re:That MySpace blog is there for everyone to see by pebs · · Score: 1

      Isn't this kind of problem what LiveJournal's "Friends Only" posting feature meant to tackle? MySpace must have this kind of functionality, surely?

      yes, in MySpace you can post blogs that are friends-only, preferred-list only (a list of friends you define), or viewable only by you.

      I'm still waiting for a way to make your entire profile private, without setting your age to 15, so I don't have to worry about peoples' comments.

      --
      #!/
    4. Re:That MySpace blog is there for everyone to see by Ratbert42 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Every few weeks I'll see one of the high school kids I know at church and say, "I was looking at your MySpace and ..." It's fun watching the blood drain out of their face.

  5. Blackmail by KefabiMe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I determined a while ago that any private material that becomes public material can be used against you. In about 20 years I expect a metric shit-ton of blackmail material will be available for our future up-and-coming politicians. (Thank you MySpace for embarrassing our future politicians!)

    Of course, because I'm smart enough to keep private matters private, I'm automatically disqualified from politics. (Yay!)

    Hint: No matter how awesome that frat party was (I don't care *how* crazy those midgets where!), it's probably not a good idea to post those pics until your hangover is gone.

    1. Re:Blackmail by Greventls · · Score: 1

      I can't wait. I imagine it will destroy the religious right when every single politician on their side is discovered to have been a stereotypical frat/sorority type. I just wish the current crop had myspace and facebook as a youth.

    2. Re:Blackmail by eln · · Score: 2, Funny

      But I thought the only reason people joined the Religious Right is because they're bitter that they never got invited to those sorts of parties in college...

    3. Re:Blackmail by jbrader · · Score: 2, Funny

      You appear to have forgotten the history of our current beloved leader.

      --
      You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.
    4. Re:Blackmail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it will be more illuminating for *you* to discover that the "religious right" is not a homogenous, influential, or large group. Don't mistake a vocal microminority for a majority. It just makes you look stupid.

    5. Re:Blackmail by penguinstorm · · Score: 1

      "Thank you MySpace for embarrassing our future politicians!"

      Oh please. As if Arnold Schwarzeneger wasn't enough of an embarassment to our current politicians. Let's not even talk about Gopher, Cooter or Sonny Bono.

      --
      Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
    6. Re:Blackmail by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      It never hurt Bush or his daughters for that matter. I noticed the thing about the religious right over the years is that politics and morality often go in separate and opposite directions from each. It's only when politics and morality are caught in the same bed together that things get really sticky.

    7. Re:Blackmail by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1

      Some, yes. For others it's because they're bitter that they've grown older and can't have fun like that anymore. So now they feel they must take it out on everyone and everything.

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    8. Re:Blackmail by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's only when politics and morality are caught in the same bed together that things get really sticky.

      Thanks for getting that nasty vision stuck in my head...

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    9. Re:Blackmail by Not_Wiggins · · Score: 1

      Black-mail material only has power if:

      A) It is something that doesn't fit "the norm"
      B) It can be used to set you apart from peers

      Bear in mind that in 20 years, most of those bloggers are going to make up a significant (if not majority) chunk of the voting population.

      We cannot assume that morality as it applies today will remain unchanged 20 years from now. I mean, there was a time it was indecent for a woman to show any leg above the knee; what won't be taboo in 20 years will probably shock you. And that is, at its base, part of what contributes to a "generation gap."

      --
      Diplomacy is the art of saying, "Nice doggie!" until you can find a rock.
    10. Re:Blackmail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most of those bloggers are going to make up a significant (if not majority) chunk of the voting population.

      hahahahahaha...you wish. No in 20 years, the biggest voting block will be retired baby boomers who will insist that the government pay for their boner medication even though they will already be crushing the working population with insane social security taxes. In 40 years...those bloggers still won't be a significant chunk of the voting public. Thankfully most people aren't so self absorbed to think that anyone would want to read about their pointless rambling on the internet. By then offspring of today's illegal immigrants will probably be the biggest voting block unfortunately.
    11. Re:Blackmail by deesine · · Score: 1

      I think that any person in highschool who wants to persue a career in politics already knows not to post their personal details and gossip on places like MySpace.

      I remember having a keg party the year after I graduated. The party got big and roudy and eventually the police came. Standard course, but this one guy was totally wigged about the police coming, "They can't know I'm here, this can't be on my record, etc. ".

      LOL "Chill out Rob, what's the deal."

      "I'm going to be running for county seat in only a couple years and..." blah blah blah.

      We never invited him again.

      --
      damaged by dogma
    12. Re:Blackmail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I imagine it will destroy the religious right when every single politician on their side is discovered to have been a stereotypical frat/sorority type.

      Umm...isn't the current president, more or less, basically a stereotypical frat-type? Ok, so he had a father with influence, but it's pretty well acknowledged that he's written fewer lines as president than he snorted in college...

    13. Re:Blackmail by Victa · · Score: 1

      And this fact is what will eventually put the last nail in the coffin of the free internet, if it still exists by then...

      Once the people currently laying the seeds of their future embarrasment get into positions of power and/or responsibility, they will lobby/legislate to remove the offending material, and make it impossible for it to happen again...

      Victa

    14. Re:Blackmail by operagost · · Score: 1
      Or the previous one.

      Or the challenger to the current leader.

      Or his fellow senator from Massachusetts.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    15. Re:Blackmail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      a metric shit-ton

      I'm not sure if a "shit-ton" is actually an SI unit.
    16. Re:Blackmail by Cervantes · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You appear to have forgotten the history of our current beloved leader.

      Of course he has. He's a double-plus Good Citizen! Bringing up any past history would just be trying to tear down your President in a Time of War. What's wrong with you? Don't you know how that would affect the morale of the troops? Do you want us to lose the War on Something? Come on, jbrader, are you supporting our troops, or are you with the terrorists?

      What's sad is that several years ago, I could expect a few Funny mods for this... now all I'll get is some people sadly shaking their heads, and a few "Hey, don't quote Fox News without permission!" comments.

      --
      If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
    17. Re:Blackmail by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 1

      In about 20 years I expect a metric shit-ton of blackmail material will be available for our future up-and-coming politicians.

      Nope, there'll be an Act of Congress declaring all such material "inadmissable" for the purposes of political discussion. You won't be able to go back farther than seven years when dredging for dirt on a candidate. Any non-felony convictions will be covered, as will any blogs, comments, web postings or letters to the editor. Everyone gets the "I learned from my mistakes" get-out-of-hassle-free card, not just conservative right-wingers.

      --
      Just junk food for thought...
    18. Re:Blackmail by eln · · Score: 1

      We're talking about the Religious Right. The exploits of the Left (as many and varied as they may be) aren't really relevant to the discussion/joke.

    19. Re:Blackmail by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      Young people outnumber old people.

      They may not vote right now, but there is some magic marginal tax rate line out there that, once crossed, will turn young people into voters.

    20. Re:Blackmail by Chelloveck · · Score: 1
      Black-mail material only has power if:

      A) It is something that doesn't fit "the norm"
      B) It can be used to set you apart from peers

      Bill Clinton apparently smoked marijuana when he was in college. In the 1960s. Now really, is there anyone who went to college in the 60s who didn't try it at least once? And would you want them to run the country? Yet, it was a "scandal". The same things will happen in 20 years. Someone will be running for Madam President and her opponents will find a picture of her flashing her tits at Mardi Gras or sunbathing topless on spring break her freshman year. Yeah, BFD. Who cares? But I betcha money something like this will "scandalize" voters in the 2028 election.

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    21. Re:Blackmail by Millenniumman · · Score: 1

      And most are religious people, who feel that certain degrees of morality should be required in individuals. Regardless of whether others support that, it is usually not done out of jealousy or authoritarianism.

      --
      Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
    22. Re:Blackmail by Millenniumman · · Score: 1

      Fox News has only a slight conservative slant. They are often considered right-leaning because occasionally they do not show complete animosity towards our president, and may even report on some on the good things he does, on one of the days where there is no one calling him an evil nazi to interview.

      --
      Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
  6. Encourage the rich/connected to Blog/myspace by hguorbray · · Score: 3, Funny

    On the other hand -if we encouraged all of the Poli Sci, Business and Law students to not only blog, but to also to post pictures of their exploits on myspace we might be able to weed out some of our future idiot/corrupt politicos and business people.

    Just think if this have been around in the '80s when King George was partying his brains out....

    -What's the Speed of Dark?

    1. Re:Encourage the rich/connected to Blog/myspace by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      Considering that if Prince Harry were the older one that he'd still become king, not much. Oh, the other King George. He has a rich father. So still not much. I hate nepotism.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    2. Re:Encourage the rich/connected to Blog/myspace by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      And all us geeks know that the poly sci, business and law students had the best parties.

    3. Re:Encourage the rich/connected to Blog/myspace by DigitalHammer · · Score: 1

      And all us geeks know that the poly sci, business and law students had the best parties.

      Ya, those molecular bio, zoology, agriculture, and biomedical majors totally know their vodka. ;)

      On another note, no wonder science students hate those arts majors. :P

    4. Re:Encourage the rich/connected to Blog/myspace by geekoid · · Score: 1

      what, the fact that they are Poli Sci, Business and Law students didn't already tell you that?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    5. Re:Encourage the rich/connected to Blog/myspace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Poli Sci, Business and Law students

      Please don't ever put us law students into the same group as Poli Sci and Business ever again. At least we can read and write and think logically.

      Of course, law students with Poli Sci and Bus. backgrounds, they definitely belong in that group. Get rid of them.

  7. But Whose Belly? by __aalomb7276 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Was the woman his grandmother? I wouldn't hire that dude at all.

    1. Re:But Whose Belly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      posting pictures of their grandmother at graduation next to one of them eating whipped cream off a woman's belly.

      It just sounds like grandma is having a little fun.

  8. in general by free+space · · Score: 0, Redundant

    If there is something you don't want your boss, your friends your family or your enemies to know, don't put it online.

    If it's really really sensetive, don't write it down either.

    If you say "hah...no one will care what I said/wrote anyway", you'd be suprised.

    1. Re:in general by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      The problem is when somebody else puts it on-line for you...

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  9. First "First Post"! by Adyhkohl · · Score: 1

    First post!

  10. Totally true by gamepln1 · · Score: 1

    Two weeks after graduating from high school I was hired by a fortune 500 company to work in the bowels of the tech department. Let me tell you that I saw a lot of totally confidential stuff that I thought was awesome and It was hard to not blab about all of the information I was privvy too

    1. Re:Totally true by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I don't belive you!
      You need to prove it by telling us what company this is,and who are they are planning to merge with!

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  11. News Flash!!! by PepeGSay · · Score: 1

    Acting like an idiot in public can hurt your job prospects. Acting like an idiot in a world wide, semi perpetual, archived and instantly accessible forum can *really* hurt your career.

    Lets not couch this in terms of some kind of cultural divide. These people are putting things in public that should be private and then suprised by their own ignorance.

    1. Re:News Flash!!! by Hao+Wu · · Score: 1
      This girl who basically hated the world for not being sexually attracted to her (now fired for other reasons, mainly underperformance caused by her medication-induced immaturity) was blogging at work. Total introvert, but online she had no problem extensively psychoanalyzing every boss and coworker she knew.

      I am certain that she wanted us to read what she thought of random people - people she judged hard despite having NO relation to. She just didn't have the balls to tell them directly.

      --
      I suggest you read Slashdot
    2. Re:News Flash!!! by iwsnet · · Score: 0

      It's just spreading gossip but putting it online where almost with a computer can see it.

    3. Re:News Flash!!! by hawfizzle · · Score: 1

      personally, i don't like to have any common links between the various roles i play in my life. i don't like school life mixing with weekend life mixing with recreation life, etc. sigh, i don't know how to explain it much further, but i think this is a general step towards the united hive mind of america.

  12. The mysterious Step 2. by TubeSteak · · Score: 1
    Everybody I've read about that got fired for having a blog is on to such great things," said Kelly Kreth, 36, who was fired from her job as the marketing and public relations director at a real estate firm in Manhattan last fall for blogging about her co-workers.

    "I've had my online diary for six years, and it is very important to me," Ms. Kreth said, calling the firing the best thing that happened to her. "It led to me opening my own business and making triple what I was making before."
    Step 1. Get Job
    Step 2. Blog about it
    Step 3. Get fired
    Step 4. Profit!!

    OTOH, does the same thing apply to kids who get expelled from college/highschool?
    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:The mysterious Step 2. by pluther · · Score: 1
      OTOH, does the same thing apply to kids who get expelled from college...?

      You mean, like Steve Jobs, or Bill Gates?

      --
      If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
    2. Re:The mysterious Step 2. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They weren't expelled. They left to pursue other interests. There's a big difference.

    3. Re:The mysterious Step 2. by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      Excellent point!!!!

      Eons ago...when I was in high school..there was a sweet young girl who sat next to me in math class. One day she disappeared...and no one knew...or would tell...what happened to her.

      Turns out she was pregnant and was taken out of school to have her child in secret (she latered married her boyfriend - and they're still married to this day).

      Point being: that was considered shameful back then, while today having a monkey-boy deserter/AWOLEE in the White House - who never succeeded at anything in his life, together with his draft-dodging, college-flunkount vice-president, is NOT CONSIDERED SHAMEFUL??????!!!!@##@%$

      What's wrong with this picture???

    4. Re:The mysterious Step 2. by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      that was considered shameful back then, while today having a monkey-boy deserter/AWOLEE in the White House - who never succeeded at anything in his life, together with his draft-dodging, college-flunkount vice-president, is NOT CONSIDERED SHAMEFUL??????!!!!@##@%$

      I'll take the opportunity here to bring up Ted Kennedy.

      Oh, and let's not delve too far into any of the 'unauthorized biographies' of Bill Clinton or Ted's big brother John. . . (whose father made the fortune used to propel his son's political careers by bootlegging liquor)

    5. Re:The mysterious Step 2. by idonthack · · Score: 1
      1. Go to school
      2. Blog about it
      3. Get expelled
      4. Don't get a job, ever
      5. No profit

      Nope.
      --
      Why is it that when you believe something it's an opinion, but when I believe something it's a manifesto?
    6. Re:The mysterious Step 2. by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      But why in the world would you ever think I would defend Kennedy's actions (I'm assuming you are referring to the horrible death of Mary Jo Kopechne)?

      And his father made their fortune quite a bit more evilly cunningly than simply bootlegging liquor - I suggest you read Richard Condon's brilliantly stealth fictional work on Kennedy, Sr.

      Most enlightening. And as for Clinton, those "free trade" acts he signed into existence have doomed the American (and in many respects, the Mexican) workers. And Clinton certainly promised the unions he would never sign any trade pacts that didn't include comparable workers' rights, environmental provisions, etc. This is why America is forever doomed should another BUSH or CLINTON reach the White House.....

  13. Is this relevant? by Embedded+Geek · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    posting pictures of their grandmother at graduation next to one of them eating whipped cream off a woman's belly.

    This is Slashdot, people. This is an experience that is absoultely unrelated to anyone that views this website.

    I mean, I only got 8 tickets to graduation. You think gram ranks above the guys from the local LINUX group and my WoW guild?

    --

    "Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."

  14. A chilling future by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    OK, I've heard the "information wants to be free" mantra a zillion times, and I've met my fair share of people who think their right to free speech (no matter what they're saying and what the consequences will be) trumps anything else.

    I've seen an absurd story on the news today about a British woman who was prosecuted for indecent exposure, because she had the audacity to sunbathe nude in her own garden. (She was acquitted, but the comments by both the public prosecutor and the judge were profoundly inappropriate, and no-one seems to have taken any action against the "offended" neighbour who videoed the nude sunbather without her permission - something that probably is illegal under the recent Sexual Offences Act.)

    You know the thing that really scared me today? A professor (in the UK sense, i.e., a very senior academic) talking about the "semantic web" and implying that in a few years, everyone will have a unique "Internet ID", and everything from their personal details to pictures of their wedding will be on-line for all to look up, instantly and reliably.

    Choosing to share your personal information with the world is one thing, though I suspect a great many of the enthusiastic youngsters supporting trendy web sites today will regret it one day. Choosing to share others' personal information with the world is an entirely different thing, and I'm not sure I want to live in a world where everything about you is assumed to be public knowledge.

    Maybe I'm just biased, since a bitter ex of mine did once post intimate and formerly private personal messages on her blog (but edited and with modified dates). It just seems to me that this sort of thing is happening ever more often: it's assumed that no-one you deal with has a private life, and if you know it, it's perfectly fine to share it with others. I guess the whole posting confidential company information thing is just another nail in the coffin: as the saying goes, privacy is dead, and we have killed it.

    It's tragic, and it's even more tragic that most people don't even realise. Yet.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:A chilling future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      neighbour who videoed the nude sunbather

      Link plz.

    2. Re:A chilling future by tehcyder · · Score: 1
      a British woman who was prosecuted for indecent exposure, because she had the audacity to sunbathe nude in her own garden... I guess the whole posting confidential company information thing is just another nail in the coffin... privacy is dead...
      I really don't follow the argument here at all. Even if you had strict privacy laws a la France, it wouldn't have any effect on someone stupid enough to post traceable confidential company information.

      Your workplace is not your private domain, it never has been, and it's only because things are relatively relaxed at work nowadays that people get confused about it.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    3. Re:A chilling future by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      My point wasn't so much about the sunbather, but rather the fact that the guy who decided to film her without permission while she was on her own property (this wasn't a public activity) was being treated like a victim by the legal system (as is made clear by comments from both prosecutor and judge), yet not held accountable in any way for what many of us would surely consider inappropriate behaviour.

      The scary thing is this idea that anything you know or have access to is automatically suitable for public consumption, and you automatically have the right to share it. It's tantamount to saying that no-one has any moral right to privacy, even in their own home (or, in the case of businesses, in their own office and among their own staff). I personally don't want to live in a world where it's OK not to keep secrets you've been trusted with.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  15. What Would Google Show? by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "What would Google show?" is a question you need to ask yourself when applying for a job. Employers increasingly Google the name of prospective employees. Not for the mail room job, but certainly for management level positions or those with security implications or even just those above some annual salary level. You also need to remember that with huge caches that shit doesn't go away even if you try to disappear it. What you thought was cool at 20 may not seem so to someone you are asking to pay you 100k at 30.

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    1. Re:What Would Google Show? by CDarklock · · Score: 1

      Pay attention, boys. Following several mystifying cases where a great job interview was followed by a withdrawal of interest, I went over my blog and carefully chucked all the truly shocking stuff under "offensive post" introductions with a "more" link.

      I got a solid offer the next week. Connect the dots.

      --
      Microsoft cheerleader, blue flag waving, you got a problem with that?
    2. Re:What Would Google Show? by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's funny that the oldest surviving reference to me on the internet - from 1997 - is still the first Google hit on my name. (From the misheard lyric archive.) Fortunately it's not too bad...

      The other hits are all from 2000 or later, and all of them are decently respectable.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    3. Re:What Would Google Show? by sedyn · · Score: 1

      Just me wondering, how well would a Google bomb work?

      --
      Am I open minded towards open source, or closed minded towards closed source?
    4. Re:What Would Google Show? by mj_sklar · · Score: 1

      WWGS? Is that anything like WWJD? All kidding aside, when I search Google for my name, I get a mixed set of results. One part shows my Lego models that I've published, and the other link to pages about a Broadway musical director who shares both my first and last name.

      I wonder if any employers will hire me because they think I was an ex-musical director...

      --
      The wii is the revolution, comrade! ...use the fucking wiimote or I'll gut you like a fish!!!
    5. Re:What Would Google Show? by FidelCatsro · · Score: 1

      A good rule of thumb , never use your real name online for anything that doesn't need it.
      I am fairly open about my life and work, but I am not that open about where and who I am. Change a few details , omit company and private names and you are a bit safer.

      Freedom of speech is important, and so is freedom of understanding of said speech. So you will influence peoples opinions of you due to your speech, it is part and package of it. If they don't know who said it, they can't hold it against you.

      --
      The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
    6. Re:What Would Google Show? by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      This is one very good reason to create a personal website and keep it full of somewhat useful yet harmless information. That way, when somebody google's you, they get you rather than someone else's opinion about you. Just a thought...

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    7. Re:What Would Google Show? by ElleyKitten · · Score: 1

      "What would Google show?" is a question you need to ask yourself when applying for a job.

      Googling my name shows a 5th grader who made a garden, some actress who was in a musical with Frank Astaire, there's a font with my name (yay!), and a shitload of genealogy reports of people not related to me.

      I've never actually gotten any decent results when googling a random non-famous person I've met, so I'm not sure why HR directors would waste their time bothering.

      --
      "What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
    8. Re:What Would Google Show? by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 1

      >I've never actually gotten any decent results when googling a random non-famous person I've met, so I'm not sure why HR directors would waste their time bothering.

      It really depends on your name. If your name is Jim Smith of Ellen Jones, then Google isn't much good without some additional filter. On the other hand, my real name is unusual, so it's pretty much all me and ten pages worth. Your mileage may vary depending on your name.

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    9. Re:What Would Google Show? by MurphyZero · · Score: 1

      Fortunately a Google search on my name shows B and C actors that share my name. I am in a technical field, but Googling with more technical terms still pull up a researcher in England that shares my name. I get to stay fairly anonymous on Google, which is a good thing unless you need to be known to be successful (like if you are a writer, actor, politician, musician ...)

      --
      Our founding fathers removed the guys in charge. Be American. Vote incumbents out.
    10. Re:What Would Google Show? by aamcf · · Score: 1

      pages about a Broadway musical director who shares both my first and last name.

      I have the same name as a man that photographs "swimsuit and glamour models" (possibly NSFW).

    11. Re:What Would Google Show? by mj_sklar · · Score: 1

      Wow, don't you wish you had his job.

      --
      The wii is the revolution, comrade! ...use the fucking wiimote or I'll gut you like a fish!!!
    12. Re:What Would Google Show? by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Depends on the name. I'm probably the only guy in the world with my name, the first several pages are all me. Around page 4 or so it goes to some celebrity in Asia with the same last name.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    13. Re:What Would Google Show? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mine's a usenet post from 1984. Like you, nothing too bad really, but in 1984 I hadn't even begun to imagine that the damn thing would still be around in 2006, and probably 2116 for that matter.

      It just wasn't something that occurred to me. I pity the people who posted embarrassing thing under their own names (most people back then posted under their own names). Yes, it's possible to delete it, but it's kind of a PITA if you don't have the original address, which basically nobody does from 1984.

    14. Re:What Would Google Show? by porcupine8 · · Score: 1
      Man, I hate what google shows about me. Namely, a horrible webpage I created in high school (nearly a decade ago) and lost the password to a couple years later. I apparently used fake address etc info, because Tripod won't let me into it or delete it for me, and the email address it's registered under no longer exists. I can't believe Tripod is still wasting server space on a page that hasn't been touched in at least 7-8 years. *sigh*

      At least now that I'm married and I've added my married name to my maiden name, it's less likely anyone will google just for my maiden name. But if they do, I'm screwed, as this old page is the 3rd hit for my name.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    15. Re:What Would Google Show? by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 1

      What would Google show, eh?

      Imagine a Beowulf cluster of fake websites set up to impersonate the writings of another. Google might say that's the person's history, but it could be entirely written by trolls.

    16. Re:What Would Google Show? by WuphonsReach · · Score: 1

      A good rule of thumb , never use your real name online for anything that doesn't need it. I am fairly open about my life and work, but I am not that open about where and who I am. Change a few details, omit company and private names and you are a bit safer.

      Exactly. Use a pseudonym or alias for your personal ramblings. Encourage your friends to do so as well. And be very careful never to let the two mix. This makes it easy for friends to keep up with your life, but difficult for strangers to simply search the web using your name in order to uncover your personal blog / website.

      I'll even go as far as using different aliases for different services / communities. It keeps things from being easily tied together and linked back. (It's possible, just not automatic.)

      --
      Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
    17. Re:What Would Google Show? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      As long as the employer realizes that people change over time and is savvy enough to, for instance, ignore the rabid Mac-zealot blog posting I made in 2000 which ended up somehow becoming the first result for my name, but there's absolutely nothing I can do to remove it from Google.

      A big part of this problem is that some blog like (ahem) Slashdot only show the month and day in Google results, not the year. So if you Googled for my Slashdot responses, you wouldn't immediately know if I wrote that posting last month, or 4 years ago last month.

    18. Re:What Would Google Show? by TheWormThatFlies · · Score: 1

      I probably have a unique name + surname combination, and the first couple of pages of Google results are indeed all about me. Fortunately there's nothing embarrassing, or at least nothing I couldn't gracefully explain to a room full of dour middle-aged men (assuming I wanted to work somewhere full of dour middle-aged men).

      My blog is on the front page (but I don't post anything in my blog that I wouldn't want my grandmother to see, if she could read English), along with some pages about a university magazine which list me as a contributor, and then lots and lots of tech-related questions and answers on various forums.

      Normally I use one of my online pseudonyms for posting epic-length rants and other comments on more informal forums. There are only two lapses in the results, and both of them are pretty sane and reasonable, don't discuss any bizarre fetishes and don't call any person or group of people anything rude, so that's not so bad.

      I'd say the most embarrassing of the lot are some questions about IIS logs that I posted on usenet during my very first job, which are near the top; they are eternally enduring proof that a) I once had to work on Windows and b) I once asked lame n00b questions on the internet.

  16. Why differentiate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    What is it about the word "blog" that makes people stupid?

    "It is important that corporations make a choice as to what type of blogging they will allow," said Alfred C. Frawley III, director of the intellectual property practice group at the law firm Preti Flaherty in Portland, Me.

    Why does blogging need a different set of rules than any other medium for communication?

    If there is something your company doesn't want disclosed, have the lawyers draft up the paperwork. Just for kicks, we'll call it a "non-disclosure agreement", or NDA for short. If this NDA is broken, handle accordingly.

    You may be within your rights to decide what I am allowed to disclose, but what does it matter how I do it?

    Director of the intellectual property practice indeed. Just another moron with a big title that even he doesn't understand.

  17. Fantastic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not easy being a nigger.

  18. Bloggers As Celebrities by Sentri · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Someone put forward the theory to me the other day that we like Celebrities (and I use the term 'we' here loosely) because we miss the sense of community our tribal ancestors had. Celebrities fill the gap because they provide a familiarity with faces and shared stories that link us to other people around the world.

    Blogging seems to extend this idea (ideal?) by making peoples stories more openly shared. For example, I read http://www.waiterrant.net/ and http://www.oblivio.com/, I know their stories even though they live in new york, and somehow the world feels smaller and less disparate. Added to that, I have a few friends who read the same blogs, we both know their stories (or at least the stories they choose to tell).

    It brings back that sense of community a little.

    --
    Can't we all just get along
    1. Re:Bloggers As Celebrities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nah...I view bloggers and those who religiously read blogs as pathetic individuals who have nothing better to do.

  19. WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
    posting pictures of their grandmother at graduation next to one of them eating whipped cream off a woman's belly

    Anyone who does this is a fucking moron. Anyone with such a galactic dearth of common sense deserves to be shut out of the corporate world. And the rest of society for that matter. This is the kind of person that doesn't care when everyone loses their rights to privacy, since they don't use any of theirs. They can all burn in a fiery pit and go straight to hell.

    [/rant]

  20. Reputations are forever... by shrdlu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I continue to be amazed at the personal details shared across the internet. At one time, I put my phone number, office number, and alternate email addresses, in my signature. That changed significantly after AOL "joined" the internet, of course. With the panic in human resources about providing or receiving references (beyond the dates of employment), things like myspace provde an interesting adjunct to vetting future workers.

    It isn't just the inappropriate pictures that will keep you from being employed. It's the evidence that you can't keep quiet about things, that you're not trustworthy, that you're not even very good with grammar and spelling (in the real world, spelling counts). Once upon a time you could move away from a bad reputation, or switch jobs to leave behind a bad experience or two. Now, with things like zabasearch and google hacks to track you down, youthful indescretion becomes a permanent and inescapable brand.

    No second chances. Sad.

    --
    The difference between a Miracle and a Fact is exactly the difference between a mermaid and a seal. (Mark Twain)
    1. Re:Reputations are forever... by Skim123 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Eh, but if everyone in the current generation does it, what choice will employers have in the future? While I agree with your premise, I can't help but think such statements are eerily similar to the admonishons from parents in the 50s - listening to that Elvis Presley music is going to rot your brain and loosen your morals!

      --

      I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

    2. Re:Reputations are forever... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      are eerily similar to the admonishons from parents in the 50s - listening to that Elvis Presley music is going to rot your brain and loosen your morals!

      In looking at the history of the 60's and 70's can you say that those parents were wrong?

    3. Re:Reputations are forever... by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      I definitely disagree with your premise:

      that you're not trustworthy, that you're not even very good with grammar and spelling (in the real world, spelling counts).

      Puuuhlease....I can't think of any corp. in the last decade or so where ANYBODY could spell or knew proper grammar. And to the point of trustworthiness (and spelling), would you please explain the commander-in-CEO in that sleaze house in Washington, D.C.?????

      Can't spell....can't tell the truth about anything....let's see now, as to how many major corporations have had to pay legal penalties for major breaking of the law (price-fixing, RICOH act, etc., etc., ad infinitum): ADM...Boeing...Enron....Microsoft...Oracle...I could go on for almost forever.

    4. Re:Reputations are forever... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      youthful indescretion becomes a permanent and inescapable brand.
      Yeah, look at how it held GW Bush back. The guy should be living life to the fullest, making his mark on the world. But thanks to the indiscretions of his youth, he can only get a job at some porn site.
    5. Re:Reputations are forever... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      No second chances. Sad.

      Considering our president is known to have done coke, abused alcohol, bankrupt his companies, I'm finding it hard to believe that someone's juvenile rantings on MySpace are going to be a big drag on their career

    6. Re:Reputations are forever... by Castar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In fact, I hope that the publishing of things like this helps to open our society a bit farther. The fact of the matter is that most people behave in "abnormal" ways, but keep it a secret. With the internet, and the publication of various things like this (college-age risky behavior, kinky fetishes, weakness for whipped cream) maybe we can finally recognize that *everyone* is a little bit weird, and the tyranny of the majority will cease to be such a factor in society.

      --
      I yearn for you tragically. A. T. Tappman, Chaplain, U.S. Army.
    7. Re:Reputations are forever... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "(in the real world, spelling counts)."

      good thing the internet isn't the real world. :)
        As someone who workds with top level managment, spelling doesn't really seem to count.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:Reputations are forever... by Intron · · Score: 1

      Like Jessica Cutler, for example.

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    9. Re:Reputations are forever... by winse · · Score: 1

      rot your brain and loosen your morals!

      And it did! well I guess it wasn't elvis, but he was kind of a gateway for later 'radical' music that produced a generation of Hippies with rotten brains and low morals. And I'm not just trolling either, I mean the best things that came out of the 60's and 70's were a break from the 50's, but not necessarily in a great way.

      --
      this sig is deprecated
    10. Re:Reputations are forever... by Simon+Garlick · · Score: 1

      I can't think of any corp. in the last decade or so where ANYBODY could spell or knew proper grammar.

      So you've only worked in the USA, then?

    11. Re:Reputations are forever... by Jim_Callahan · · Score: 1

      In the old folks' defense, our morals are in fact much looser nowadays and only the most educated are capable of basic arithmetic without a calculator, so at best we haven't seen any improvement in the brain-rot factor.

      --
      ...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
    12. Re:Reputations are forever... by bhiestand · · Score: 1
      "(in the real world, spelling counts)."

      good thing the internet isn't the real world. :)
          As someone who workds with top level managment, spelling doesn't really seem to count.

      Right, but if you worked FOR top level management, as their bitch/secretary, your spelling would most certainly count, at least if you were writing memos for them.

      To All my Minions:

      Productividy has dramatikally raised this quartor, and I would like two thank you for all you're hard work. In appritiasyon for you're efforts, all employes will receive to extra days of vacasyon this year. // SIGNED //
      Samir Nagheenanajar, CEO, Initech


      Certainly exaggerated, but they do understand that they have to present a certain image, and this means any serious or public documents need to be properly written. They just may not care how good the spelling on their post-it notes is :).
      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    13. Re:Reputations are forever... by esper · · Score: 1

      and the tyranny of the majority will cease to be such a factor in society

      Perhaps. But it could just as easily go the other way, with people taking great pains to ensure that they (appear to) conform perfectly to some bland ideal for fear that they might be indelibly branded a "deviant", and thus the tyranny of the majority grows even stronger.

      I'm not sure which is the more likely outcome.

    14. Re:Reputations are forever... by Skim123 · · Score: 1
      In the old folks' defense, our morals are in fact much looser nowadays and only the most educated are capable of basic arithmetic without a calculator, so at best we haven't seen any improvement in the brain-rot factor.

      Erm, I disagree on both counts. Today minorities hold positions in industry they didn't 50 years ago. Blacks can ride at the front of the bus. After 9-11, we didn't round up the Muslims in this country and put them in internment camps like we did with the Japanese in WWII. We don't use nerve gas in battle anymore a la WWI. Or we could go further back. Slavery. Burning witches at the stake. The Inquisition. And on and on and on.

      And regarding the brain rot fallacy, IQs today are higher than they have ever been [source]. "Researchers who study intelligence say scores around the world have been increasing so fast that a high proportion of people regarded as normal at the turn of the century would be considered way below average by today's tests. Psychologists offer a variety of possible explanations for the increase, including better nutrition, urbanization, more experience with test taking, and smaller families. Some even say that television and video games have made children's brains more agile."

      It's easy to say, "Man, things were so quaint back in the day," but in reality, they really weren't.

      --

      I could not justify my existence if I were a turkey farmer. Would I terminate myself? Undoubtably, yes.

    15. Re:Reputations are forever... by Shajenko42 · · Score: 1

      That stuff only matters if you don't have powerful, influential friends.

    16. Re:Reputations are forever... by superflippy · · Score: 1

      This is why I am thankful that I went to college before digital cameras were ubiquitous, and that of the early newsgroups I posted on, only alt.ascii-art seems to be in Google's cache.

      By the time I started creating a traceable digital persona, most of my big mistakes had already been made and learned from. As a result, I'd like to think I'd be willing to be a little more lenient should I ever be in charge of hiring someone younger, whose stupid mistakes are digitally preserved.

      --
      Your fantasies contain the seeds of important concepts.
    17. Re:Reputations are forever... by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      Negative, I've worked overseas a good bit, but for US corporations there, with the exceptions of Cable & Wireless (British) and Aerospatiale (French).

    18. Re:Reputations are forever... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      At one time, I put my phone number, office number, and alternate email addresses, in my signature. That changed significantly after AOL "joined" the internet, of course

      Please explain the 'of course' part. I only recently started doing this, switching from privacy paranoid to the realization that all this information is easily accessible anyway and that providing it readily enables communication by people I do want to communicate with, and the lack of which can kill business deals.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  21. Hierarchical, intergenerational workplace by AK__64 · · Score: 1

    I really thought the part of the blurb that talked about moving from a group of peers to the intergenerational workplace was specially insightful. As a college student, and as a young person, I feel that my peers too often underestimate the culture gap between themselves and their future employers. Many of my fellow students are mature enough to handle the transition well, but not everyone is as capable.

    I think blogging about everything is only a single aspect of the vast differences between today's youth and their parents' generation.

    1. Re:Hierarchical, intergenerational workplace by Sentri · · Score: 1

      I think that the people who are most willing to blog in the first place are demonstrating personality traits more suitable to employers who will focus on soft skills, interpersonal skills and being youthful and trendy

      For example, marketing, retail and sales

      People who blog about personal aspects of their lives should be kept seperate from those who blog about technical aspects of their lives only, if I am hiring and I google someone's name and they have a personal blog page that is full of wicked technical hacks (http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/ for example) then how good does that look for them? Very!

      But if I google their name and it comes up with something less savoury, or even slihtly unpleasant, well that looks bad. And by the way, it doesnt matter whether the people you worked with last were horrible or not, if you posted about them on your blog, you might post about me if you think I am horrible, I dont want that, so I wont hire you.

      --
      Can't we all just get along
  22. Makes selection easier by Marko+DeBeeste · · Score: 1

    Stupidity screen. Social Darwinism at work.

    --
    Faith: n. -- That human impulse that drives them to steal appliances when the power goes out
  23. heh by free+space · · Score: 1

    I don't know where kids get the idea that the only ones who would ever look at their MySpace blogs are people in their own age group.

    Considering the color schemes of most myspace pages and the spelling/grammer, Im surprised anyone looks at myspace blogs :)

    1. Re:heh by needacoolnickname · · Score: 1

      People can blog on myspace?

  24. Hospitals by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 1
    Hospitals are notoriously bad about their corporate culture, because there is absolutely NO accountability for ANYONE. Most of the staff is essentially unfireable because their skills are in high demand or they're in a union (or both, as in the unfortunate case of nurses). And most hospitals are effectively a monopoly (ambulances can't exactly perform a credit-check to decide where to take you...) and have a captive market.

    I'm sure there are a few corporate environments that are worse, but they're probably degenerate one-off businesses that are in the process of completely disintegrating.

    1. Re:Hospitals by 70Bang · · Score: 3, Interesting



      (all of this known, first-hand)
      Hospitals are sieves...for the most part. I can cite a current situation where things were kept very clandestine due to the extreme nature of what was going on. The press largely chose to skip over it which shocked me.

      Nurses aren't unfireable, per se, regardless of how endangered a species they appear to be. It just costs more to lure some of them out of hiding. Nurses are, however, almost the lifeblood of a facility as there are few things they can't & don't do, out of care for the patients as much as pure necessity. You don't see orderlies any more. It's not unusual for a minimum of the staff, working directly or indirectly for the hospital, to be more than 1/3 nurses. There's only one thing which nurses do not cope with very well: hospitals which offshore nurses; i.e., bring in 3rd-world nurses. There is almost nothing they won't do -- trumping the nurses we believe so strongly in. Fortunately, this is a rare, rare situation.

      The group (en masse) which has virtually no accountability to the hospital is that which has a lot of M.D. and other related abbreviated diplomas and licenses. They rarely work directly for the hospital but instead, for a separate organization which more or less dovetails into hospitals' structures such that it's as if they are working for the hospital. The bridge is usually someone who works in a department labelled (or similarly labelled) Medical Affairs.

      Something hospital staff (including MDs, RNs[1], and even housekeeping have to be reminded of is not to talk about what they see, hear, or participate in or outside of the hospital. (re: patients) Most people would be surprised how much "indirect" shop talk takes place after a shift over a few drinks and even with specific clues left out, it's possible to identify whom they are talking about. What's worse is when they do it in the hallways or elevators and may be sharing hearing space with family or friends of the patient(s) they are discussing.


      ____________________________________
      [1] You'll notice I abhore using the "grocer's apostrophe" with acronyms. I hate seeing "MD's", "RN's", "PC's". It's gotten so bad people will post ads in real newspapers ala "Schedule Party's With Us!".

      Actually, the purpose for this footnote was to point out how many nurses and technicians (doctors don't seem to do it very much) say, "I'm headed to the OR|ER room".


    2. Re:Hospitals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [1] You'll notice I abhore using the "grocer's apostrophe" with acronyms. I hate seeing "MD's", "RN's", "PC's".

      Thank you. Next, please learn how to spell 'abhor'. :)

    3. Re:Hospitals by cubicledrone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      as in the unfortunate case of nurses

      Yes, it's unfortunate that people who dedicate their lives to the care of the sick and injured can't be fired by some blow-dried corporate fuck because his golf game got canceled.

      --
      Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    4. Re:Hospitals by badasscat · · Score: 1

      Nurses are, however, almost the lifeblood of a facility as there are few things they can't & don't do, out of care for the patients as much as pure necessity. You don't see orderlies any more.

      Sure you do - they're just called nurse's aides now. These are the people who do stuff like wipe the butts and change the sheets of patients who shit themselves in the middle of the night. (I'm serious.)

      For every 2 or so nurses in most units, there is 1 nurse's aide. There have to be more nurses because they have more to do - and about half of a nurse's job is paperwork (who do you think does the charting?).

      It is true, though, that nurses - especially in this country - have more medical training and fill more of a medical role than nurses in other countries.

      It's not unusual for a minimum of the staff, working directly or indirectly for the hospital, to be more than 1/3 nurses.

      I'm not sure what nurses work "indirectly" for a hospital - the number of freelance nurses out there could probably be counted on one hand. But 1/3 of the staff? Not even close. Most of a major hospital's staff is administrative.

      Smaller hospitals with only 20 or 30 employees might have 5-10 nurses. But a hospital with 2,000 employees does not have 700 nurses. Maybe 100-150 at most. The larger a hospital gets, the more overhead and the more administration required, at all levels.

      There's only one thing which nurses do not cope with very well: hospitals which offshore nurses; i.e., bring in 3rd-world nurses. There is almost nothing they won't do -- trumping the nurses we believe so strongly in. Fortunately, this is a rare, rare situation.

      Uh... it kinda has to be, because you can't work as a nurse here without proper licensure. And that takes quite a long time to get, not to mention the proper immigration status.

      I'm saying all this both first-hand and second-hand. My wife is a nurse at a major hospital in NYC, and she's from Japan (where she was also a nurse). I myself have been a recent and pretty frequent (unfortunately) patient at various hospitals as I've been dealing with a recurrent spontaneous pneumothorax condition and subsequent major surgery. So first I lived through my wife's experience trying to transfer her occupation to the United States, then lately I've been experiencing things through the other end of the looking glass.

      Anyway, you can't just "offshore" a nurse. Nursing licenses do not transfer, not even from state to state within the US. This is why there is such a persistent nursing shortage in the US - if hospitals could just poach nurses from elsewhere, they would. It is not that easy. They can recruit from third-world countries, but they then have to pay for their education in the US, they have to help them with their immigration issues (and hope there are no snags), and hope that they eventually obtain their licenses here. Often that doesn't happen because of the language barrier - as hard as it is to learn English in the first place, just imagine how hard it is to learn English medical terminology. My wife, with ten years experience as a nurse in Japan, took four years to obtain her nursing license in the US. It doesn't have to take that long, but I'd imagine for some people it takes even longer. Japan is a pretty advanced country and she was pretty advanced in English when she got here - for a less accomplished English speaker from a less medically advanced country, it would be even harder.

      In the meantime, they can work as a medical assistant or nurse's aide. (And yeah, as a nurse's aide you'd better be prepared to do anything.) That sort of experience usually doesn't do anything but make them anxious for the day when they can give up all that stuff and turn over the crap jobs to a new batch of nurse's aides, though. So I wouldn't say nurses that have immigrated from third-world countries do anything more than nurses born here.

      You may be confus

    5. Re:Hospitals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you give me a hint?

    6. Re:Hospitals by Ninjaesque+One · · Score: 0

      Initials can have an apostrophe, or they can lack one; it doesn't really make a difference. The AP likes it one way, the New York Times another way, etc. However, "Party's" is incorrect, unless you have a guy named Party. That would be pretty cool, though: 'Hey, Party!'

      --
      Ninjas and pirates. How piquant.
    7. Re:Hospitals by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1
      In the meantime, they can work as a medical assistant or nurse's aide. (And yeah, as a nurse's aide you'd better be prepared to do anything.)

      hehe

    8. Re:Hospitals by bhiestand · · Score: 0

      Your evidence is anecdotal at best. Some hospitals have improved the ratio of nurse's aides, but many still have RNs doing butt-wiping, sponge baths, etc. On top of that, it appears your wife knows little about the current american nursing system. Most foreign nurses hail from the philippines. If you go to Georgetown, or any other major hospital, you'll notice a disproportionate number of filipinas. There's a reason for this.

      Medical school in the Philippines only costs a few thousand (USD), and America established their medical schools. The education and training is nearly identical to that in the states. I know a few Americans who have gone there to study for their MD simply because of the price difference. That being said, there is a huge business in recruiting nurses in the Philippines. I've met a few people who make six digit salaries by offering $25/hour jobs and a green card to graduating nurses. Hospitals eat them up, because the language barrier is minimal. On top of that, there are already plenty of filipinas working in the hospitals that can explain things to them in tagalog if need be. All educated filipinos speak english well anyways.

      Being a nurse in the US, you can essentially either work directly for a hospital as an employee, you can have a contract with an individual hospital/university (usually the case for guest workers), or you can work for what is (or at least used to be) refered to as "the registry", which is essentially a traveler job. The registry basically rents nurses to hospitals that are undermanned on an hourly or daily basis. This type of job has little, if any, benefits, but it usually pays much better per hour of work.

      Coming from the Philippines, the board is easy. Being recognized by the state as an RN isn't that hard, and the companies have a great legal team that helps with immigration and naturalization.

      Now, whether this is a good system for all involved, or whether it's a imperial "brain-drain" from the Philippines isn't as clear-cut :).

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    9. Re:Hospitals by drewsome · · Score: 1

      Smaller hospitals with only 20 or 30 employees might have 5-10 nurses. But a hospital with 2,000 employees does not have 700 nurses. Maybe 100-150 at most. The larger a hospital gets, the more overhead and the more administration required, at all levels.

      A friend of mine is an ICU nurse at a hospital in Indianapolis, and there are 400+ nurses who work there. Think about it. In each ACC ICU, there are eight nurses per shift, three shifts per day. That's 24. How many ACCs are there? Six. You're already up in the 140-150 range, and that's JUST for the Adult ICU. There are more nurses for NICU, and then there's the nurses for everyone else -- ER, inpatient, outpatient, therapy, wossnames, etc. Now, I don't know if the hospital has as few as 2000 employees, but I'm pretty sure they don't have 10,000 employees. They easily have 400-600 nurses.

    10. Re:Hospitals by GeckoX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This and other posts discussing corporate culture, but using the US medical & hospital system as an example...OH MY GOD. Could you pick a WORSE example? Or are you begging for another endless argument about the problems with a private madical system in the first place?

      All I will say is THANK GOD I'm a canadian so I don't even have to THINK of this kind of bullshit. Primary medical care is a basic need, and ONLY the best people for the job should be hired and retained. There is NO logical argument to the contrary here, unless you don't value life.

      (Minor troll, but true nonetheless: It's quite apparent that the US as an entity does NOT value life whatsoever)

      --
      No Comment.
    11. Re:Hospitals by Bob+Uhl · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Food and clothing are basic needs to, yet the State shouldn't be providing them. The State should not be in the business of satisfying basic needs, period: its sole role is to punish those who violate the rights of others.

    12. Re:Hospitals by GeckoX · · Score: 1

      Say WHAT? What kind of crack are you smoking?

      Maybe that is what YOU would like to see in the world, but pull your head out of your ass, that's shit up there, not reality you know.

      MY 'state' looks after a number of basic needs, and MY 'state' is easily a happier, healthier, and wealthier state than your 'fuck em all' 'state'. You keep your 'state' mmkay? Preferrably FAR away from myself and everyone else out there...maybe over by the rest of your imaginary friends.

      --
      No Comment.
    13. Re:Hospitals by Your+Pal+Dave · · Score: 1
      This is becoming a problem in the Philippines. According to an NPR report from last year:
      The Philippines exports 15,000 nurses a year, and it's estimated that 1 in 10 Filipinos now works abroad. The nursing drain could have a crippling effect on the Philippines healthcare system.

    14. Re:Hospitals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > [1] You'll notice I abhore using the "grocer's apostrophe" with acronyms. I hate seeing "MD's", "RN's", "PC's".
      > It's gotten so bad people will post ads in real newspapers ala "Schedule Party's With Us!".

      I notice that you don't 'abhore' the misuse of à la, as in "à la peanut butter sandwiches!" ;-)

    15. Re:Hospitals by Grab · · Score: 1

      The State is also in the business of doing things in bulk for the entire population which don't make sense to run on an individual basis. Things like roads and armed forces. Welfare also fits in here.

      Most countries in the West have some system of welfare that provides money for sufficient food, clothing and heating. Not *good* food, clothing and heating, but enough so you won't die. People figured out this century that workers dying (from cold/illness/starvation) as a result of losing their jobs wasn't a good thing. Most people agree with this. If you disagree, I can guess with close to 100% accuracy that you're from a well-endowed family, who has never been unable to find work for longer than a couple of months, and whose parents were never out of work for longer than a couple of months. There's pretty good odds that you're a white male too.

      Grab.

    16. Re:Hospitals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FFS, Iraq is a whole lot closer to that "nirvana" than the US is. Why not move there?

    17. Re:Hospitals by Leiterfluid · · Score: 1

      You also pay much more in taxes than Americans do, and get lower quality health care. If you want cheap prescription drugs, go to Canada. If you need to have your gall bladder removed, better stay in the U.S.

      Medicine, unfortunately, is one of those fields where you get what you pay for.

    18. Re:Hospitals by Charlotte · · Score: 1

      You also pay much more in taxes than Americans do, and get lower quality health care.

      Wrong. We do pay slightly more taxes, but the difference is small: international competition makes it impossible to have too much disparity in the cost of labour. Only an American could believe that it's a bad thing to have universal health care. That's why they're way down on the UN's scorecard of countries' quality of living.

      We also get better health care, for a lower price. Insuring everyone is cheaper than insuring just part of the population because you can spread the risk more easily. Also, state covered insurance lowers the overhead cost by forcing the insurance companies down on price.

      Medicine, unfortunately, is one of those fields where you get what you pay for.

      Actually, the cost of medicine in the US is determined by the cost of the doctor's insurance policy. You do get what you pay for: the ability to sue your doctor for malpractice and get rich.

      Everyone else just wants good health, and that doesn't cost all that much. Maybe you should emigrate to Europe.

    19. Re:Hospitals by OnanTheBarbarian · · Score: 1

      Right, another libertarian ranting about what the state should do from 'first principles' (never mind the fact that this is an absurd minority opinion and that most of us are quite happy with the idea of democracy and a slightly-to-very activist state, depending on our non-crack-smoking ideologies). And modded up, too, as if repeating libertarian cant at every opportunity is somehow 'insightful'. Once again, one fondly daydreams of the quite small island that would be required to house all of the world libertarians who actually want to live their dream, having so utterly failed to persuade more than about 1% of the population of any first world country.

      I suppose it's just about as on-topic as the 'boo-ya, we've got wonderful health care and we're from CANADA!' guy who just had to get that off his chest.

    20. Re:Hospitals by reallymadscientist · · Score: 1

      Anyway, you can't just "offshore" a nurse. Nursing licenses do not transfer, not even from state to state within the US. This is why there is such a persistent nursing shortage in the US - if hospitals could just poach nurses from elsewhere, they would. It is not that easy. They can recruit from third-world countries, but they then have to pay for their education in the US, they have to help them with their immigration issues (and hope there are no snags), and hope that they eventually obtain their licenses here.

      That is SO not true. You can easily reciprocate a nursing license from state to state. And hospitals DO poach nurses from elsewhere. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Many of my friends and fellow nurses are from the Phillipines, where there are many universities that offer English-language RN, BSN, and MSN programs that allow for licensure in the States.

    21. Re:Hospitals by Millenniumman · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of logical arguments to the contrary, even if you do not agree with them. And agreeing with them does not mean you do not value life. In fact, it shows a great value on one of the most important things in life, freedom. That's not to say that people who support socialized medicine are "anti-freedom".

      Isn't it our duty to take care of ourselves? That is half of freedom.

      Is health care an essential right, when it requires someone to do something? Do you have the right to a health care worker's labor?

      Is it right for an entity to force people to pay money? For the military, et al, it may be necessary, but it isn't for health care.

      And even if you do believe in an essential right to health care, should it be done by the government in addition to being paid for by it?

      Competing private enterprise is almost always more efficient than the government, because people are motivated to do things well. If a health care providing entity will get money and exist not matter how good it is, and no one's fortune depends on how well it does, what motivation is there for it to be efficient? In private enterprise, people strive to do better.

      The Canadian health care system has a lot of problems, it is not very efficient, and skill among workers is not as highly valued or rewarded as that of a private enterprise system. It also costs a lot. So you do have to, or at least should, think about it.

      Personally, I am glad that we have a free enterprise health care system in the U.S. and do not believe that will ever change.

      What do you mean by the U.S. as an entity? Americans as a whole certainly value life, and all or most of the people in our government do. We also value freedom.

      99% of: conservatives aren't nazis or fascists, liberals aren't immoral elitists or communists, libertarians aren't uncaring or selfish.

      --
      Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
    22. Re:Hospitals by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      Since you asked, let's answer some of these questions:

      Do you have the right to a health care worker's labor?

      A health care worker has a choice as to whether they work in the public system or the private system. If they choose to work in the public system, then the answer to your question is "yes".

      Is it right for an entity to force people to pay money? For the military, et al, it may be necessary, but it isn't for health care.

      You answered your question here. "It may be necessary" to force people to pay money. Looks like you're just arguing about where the boundary lies to me.

      And even if you do believe in an essential right to health care, should it be done by the government in addition to being paid for by it?

      Ah, now this is a completely different question. The question of who actually does it is different in different countries. In Australia, for example, there aren't any government-employed GPs to a first approximation. You go to your doctor, then claim some or all of the costs back either at the surgery or at the insurance office. Much like would happen under a private system.

      Competing private enterprise is almost always more efficient than the government, because people are motivated to do things well.

      Private enterprise is more efficient than the government for the same reason that dictatorship is more efficient than democracy. Democratic governments, at least in theory, have openness and accountability constraints that don't apply to corporations. And the few constraints that do apply to corporations at the moment would definitely not apply under a pure libertarian system.

      If a health care providing entity will get money and exist not matter how good it is, and no one's fortune depends on how well it does, what motivation is there for it to be efficient? In private enterprise, people strive to do better.

      I could change a few words there and come up with a pretty plausible-sounding argument as to why open source software will inevitably be crap compared to proprietary offerings.

      Health care professionals are still licensed. The threat of being sued for malpractice or losing ones licence is still there. But more to the point, most health care professionals aren't in that field for the money, but because they care about what they do. Much like any other field.

      The Canadian health care system has a lot of problems, [...]

      That's true, which is why it's a fallacy to look at just the Canadian system and say "these problems will be true of all nationalised health systems". No system is perfect, but the problems associated with each are a function of history and demographics as much as economics. Some countries have more sparsely distributed populations than others, for example.

      Personally, I am glad that we have a free enterprise health care system in the U.S. and do not believe that will ever change.

      Clearly, you can afford health care and/or are reasonably healthy.

      Amusingly, in just about every other industrialised country, one common catch cry every time anyone wants to modify the system is "this would create a US-style system". Someone always makes that argument, kind of like Godwin's Law.

      Part of the reason for this is that most of the stories we hear are about people who fall through the cracks, such as those who end up homeless and still in huge debt to pay for their cancer treatment. I have no doubt that there are many success stories, too.

      99% of: conservatives aren't nazis or fascists, liberals aren't immoral elitists or communists, libertarians aren't uncaring or selfish.

      No argument with that!

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    23. Re:Hospitals by Millenniumman · · Score: 1

      Health care professionals are still licensed. The threat of being sued for malpractice or losing ones licence is still there. But more to the point, most health care professionals aren't in that field for the money, but because they care about what they do. Much like any other field.

      I was more referring to the people who run the health care companies or orchestrate the running of the facilities. Employees can't be sued by employers for being inefficient, and it is notoriously hard to fire government workers.

      Private enterprise is more efficient than the government for the same reason that dictatorship is more efficient than democracy. Democratic governments, at least in theory, have openness and accountability constraints that don't apply to corporations. And the few constraints that do apply to corporations at the moment would definitely not apply under a pure libertarian system.

      I would argue that competition and motivation are the main reason for greater efficiency, especially since, unlike dictatorships or any other government, competing businesses have freedom of association.

      You answered your question here. "It may be necessary" to force people to pay money. Looks like you're just arguing about where the boundary lies to me.

      Even if it is necessary in some cases, it may not be right, and would be ideal to avoid when possible. Those boundaries are what define government policies. I could change a few words there and come up with a pretty plausible-sounding argument as to why open source software will inevitably be crap compared to proprietary offerings.

      I am under the impression that open source software contribution is not a job for many people, and it is generally a hobby. For medical care, full time employees and administrators are necessary. One can read a few books and contribute to OSS, whereas it takes dedication to provide health care. Government has virtually unlimited funds, and many of the people who end up working for it don't do it out of dedication or pride like contributors to OSS. And proprietary software is often better than OSS.

      --
      Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
    24. Re:Hospitals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Ah yes, the wonderful Canadian health care system. My friend Mark would beg to differ (he's currently dying from testicular cancer due to .ca's supposedly "superior" health care):

      This week is my week off from chemo. I start my second round next Tuesday with the oxaliplatin and gemzar.

      Energy levels are getting better, largely helped by 2 units of red blood cells yesterday... My blood counts are pretty low - platelets are 49, hemoglobin in the 80's, wbc's at round 2, neuts nearly zero... My onco is worried about how much more my bone marrow can take.

      I got my latest AFP results too - it's up to 6300. Pretty damm depressing. I was hoping the first round of oxaliplatin and gemzar would at least slow it's steady climb. If only my investment portfolio climbed like my AFP.

      There hasn't been word of any scheduled CT, but I imagine with the AFP rocketing up like that that there are new tumors everywhere. Pardon my language, but this completely sucks ass... Here I am, dying of a curable disease, because of a stupid family doctor. The worst part is that here in Canada, there is NO way to hold him responsible. I complained to the College of Physicians and Surgeons (the people who hand out permits to practice medicine here) and they say he did nothing wrong. I've looked into suing and my lawyer says I have a good case, but it will likely take 2 years. If I die before the end of the thing, the courts here won't even pay the damages to my estate. So if I die it's like a get out of jail free card for this jackass.
    25. Re:Hospitals by GeckoX · · Score: 1

      And if your friend was in the US there is a VERY good chance that he'd have run out of insurance, run out of standby funds, and be in the hole and destitute at this point.

      As well, even IF he had all this in the states, he could still, no actually, he'd be statistically MORE likely to have run across a bad doctor and may not survive anyways.

      Herein lies the root of the problem with your argument. It's turned into an argument about lawyers and money, NOT about good health care.

      No one said there was a perfect system out there. I'm sorry about your friend, cancer SUCKS. But you know what? People unfortunately die from it every single day. THAT is what sucks.

      --
      No Comment.
  25. missing link. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Shouldn't "eating whipped cream off a woman's belly" be a link above?

    1. Re:missing link. by dema · · Score: 5, Funny
    2. Re:missing link. by Khaed · · Score: 4, Funny

      Omigod.

      MOM?!

    3. Re:missing link. by Saeger · · Score: 1
      And so what if it was?

      Did you really think your Mom was never a horny human being?

      I'll never get why so many people pretend to be shocked about completely normal behavior.

      --
      Power to the Peaceful
    4. Re:missing link. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I'll never get why so many people pretend to be shocked about completely normal behavior.

      It's called a "joke", you dipshit.

    5. Re:missing link. by JUSTONEMORELATTE · · Score: 1

      Man, you came up with that link really fast.

      /just sayin'

    6. Re:missing link. by SpasticWeasel · · Score: 1

      WTF is the deal with the thing on the shoulder?

      --
      No sooner do I get over one, then you put a better one right next to me. Bastards.
  26. The problem is with extremes by megla · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Anyone dumb enough to post their company's innermost secrets on their blog deserves exactly what they get.
    Similarly, any boss who fires an employee simply on the basis that they have a blog, regardless of content, deserves some sort of dressing down - although this is harder to achieve.

    People are too often pushed into very polarised positions on the matter, which helps no-one. There's plenty of acceptable middle ground, if only someone could bring reasonable discussion to the table.

    1. Re:The problem is with extremes by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1
      Similarly, any boss who fires an employee simply on the basis that they have a blog, regardless of content, deserves some sort of dressing down - although this is harder to achieve.
      I'm guessing that, in most jurisdications, you can't fire someone simply because they have a blog. Now if the blogging uses company resources, or if the blog mentions the company, that's something else.

      Perhaps someone can advise on this.

    2. Re:The problem is with extremes by tiocsti · · Score: 1

      Welcome to 'at-will' employment.

    3. Re:The problem is with extremes by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 1
      That's what I get for being a dumb hockey puck. I had no idea about "at will" employment in the U.S. Had to look it up on Wikipedia.

      Looks like you can, in some places, fire someone for blogging at home. Or driving a Ford. Or growing tulips in the backyard. I stand corrected.

    4. Re:The problem is with extremes by tiocsti · · Score: 1

      Damn them ford drivers, damn them to hell!

    5. Re:The problem is with extremes by geekoid · · Score: 1

      well, there are legal raminification for releasing someone for no reason, or a poor reason.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    6. Re:The problem is with extremes by CRiMSON · · Score: 1

      And along comes "Poor performance" ... by by.

      --
      oogly boogly!
    7. Re:The problem is with extremes by cubicledrone · · Score: 1

      I'm guessing that, in most jurisdications, you can't fire someone simply because they have a blog.

      Isn't it great when people say "can't fire someone?" I always chuckle.

      --
      Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    8. Re:The problem is with extremes by shawngarringer · · Score: 1
      Except poor performance is hard has hell to prove. They have to show that your performance has degraded, or has constantly been below others in your area... Which is even more difficult because its not likely that two people had the exact same job description performing the exact same duties.

      I've found the cause much more likely to be attendence issues. Late to work by even a minute 3 times and thats enough to show a pattern of poor attendence... although at that point both parties know what is going on. Why someone would stay when they know they're TRYING to be fired is beyond me. Seems ackward at best...

    9. Re:The problem is with extremes by tiocsti · · Score: 1

      If you work in a state with at-will employment, you can be fired for pretty much any reason, or no reason at all. The only exceptions are things that are legally protected (legally protected discrimination of various sorts, if you are the right race or gender or whatever).

    10. Re:The problem is with extremes by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1
      Why someone would stay when they know they're TRYING to be fired is beyond me

      One word: Unimployment

    11. Re:The problem is with extremes by Wiseleo · · Score: 1

      Rigid schedules are obsolete.

      If you need me to be available 9am-5pm, that's fine. Being physically in the office at 9am makes no sense. I programmed my PBX in the office to reroute calls starting at 9am to my cell phone and unprogrammed that when I was actually in the office.

      They didn't like the concept, but that's what the policy is at my company. I pay for availability, not to have someone's ass in one of my office chairs.

      --
      Leonid S. Knyshov
      Find me on Quora :)
    12. Re:The problem is with extremes by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1
      Rigid schedules are obsolete.

      However, in many parts of the world they have semi-rigid schedule. I.e. "you must be there from 9 to 4, and make have lunch during at most one hour between 12 and 2 (and at least half an hour), and total 40 hours per week". So you can come in at 8, have your lunch hour, and leave at 5. Or come in at 9, have half an hour lunch, and leave at 5h30.

      But you can't come in at 9h30, even if you stay til 6h30.

      And even if you're completely flex, there's still the issue about total hours worked. So your boss will just dig up 3 weeks where you were present only for 39 hours and 59 minutes rather than 40 hours.

    13. Re:The problem is with extremes by Peyna · · Score: 1

      Many state courts have implied "for just cause" requirements to any dismissal, even though there may be an at-will statute. I don't have numbers, but the law can vary widely depending on where you live. I do know that New York employment law, even as interpreted by the courts is very pro-management (which might surprise some people). All states allow some very minor exceptions to EAW, and somes have almost obliterated EAW through court decisions or statutes.

      --
      What?
    14. Re:The problem is with extremes by pedalman · · Score: 1
      There's plenty of acceptable middle ground, if only someone could bring reasonable discussion to the table.
      Reasonable discussion? You must be new here.
      --
      Friends don't let friends line-dance.
  27. Oh god - I hope they don't read /. by i+am+kman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Aaaahhh - damn. I knew I shouldn't use my real name when I registered. Oh god, what am I gonna do now - aaaahhhh.

    Actually, I think many people invent a psuedo-name and often don't realize when they've crossed the line from anonymous to identifiable when you look at the collection of what they post. The vastness of the internet makes people feel safe even when their standing naked in public.

    I've worked with 2 people who were fired over blogs they thought were quite anonymous, but it became quite clear who was writing them when you looked at the collection of posts. They both knew perfectly well if they were caught they'd be fired (and they should've been), but they also felt quite anonymous since they didn't use their 'real names. It's ALOT like folks that post 'anonymous' comments on stock boards.

    1. Re:Oh god - I hope they don't read /. by SubRosa · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I've always wondered... Even if specific, identifiable facts are omitted from "anonymous" online posts, would it be hard for a statistical/Bayesian system to pick out text written by a specific person given a sufficient corpus of material known to be from that person? Seems those techniques do a hell of a decent job with spam. I don't see how normal prose would be any different.

      Simply being anonymous may not be enough anymore. You may need to sufficiently change your prose style, which may be very difficult to do, given how each person's vocabulary and grammar skills are unique.

      --
      Better living through obfuscation. Project White Noise
    2. Re:Oh god - I hope they don't read /. by tool462 · · Score: 1

      That may be true, in theory, but I imagine it would be difficult to get a large enough collection of sample material. Also, I think the various statistical and Bayesian filters only can go so far to say Spam or Not Spam. They can't identify a particular spammer or type of spammer. Applied to blogs, they may not be able to provide any more distinguishing detail than "seems to enjoy Douglas Adams and Monty Python."

    3. Re:Oh god - I hope they don't read /. by Ratbert42 · · Score: 1

      I went to a pseudonym when Dejanews became popular. Ugh.

  28. Depends. by jd · · Score: 0

    If your grandmother is the founder and president of the local Linux User Group, the biker chick for the local chapter of Hell's Angels, or (worst of all) beating you in WoW, which she connects to from her OpenBSD system, then you probably would invite her.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Depends. by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 1

      Maybe. But only if she eats hot grits off ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US.

  29. Jeez. Gotta be careful about those intros... by penguinstorm · · Score: 2, Funny

    I thought that said "eating whipped cream off their grandmother's belly."

    Come to think of it, gotta be careful what you post at Slashdot: all that anti-Microsoft hatred that can get spewed could be problematic when The (Wo)Man goes to sign a paycheque.

    --
    Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
    1. Re:Jeez. Gotta be careful about those intros... by ClassMyAss · · Score: 1

      Of course, one might argue that if you're reading Slashdot and spewing a lot of anti-Microsoft hatred, your sense of morality would prohibit you from accepting a paycheck from anyone who would see that as a problem. True, money is money, but from what I can gather, most people here feel passionately enough about this issue that they would hesitate to take any sort of job that would require them to hide their feelings about M$.

      I suppose that's my litmus test - don't put something online that you wouldn't defend to the point of losing your job. If you'd openly stand by your decision to go into a NYC deli at 4 AM wearing nothing but a pink thong with a mini-pumpkin in the crotch, by all means, put the pics up on your MySpace page (true story, not mine - and yes, he does have a "respectable" job). If not, then it's probably not something you should be putting online.

      Stand by your convictions until convicted for your stance...

  30. I blame JenniCam by SubRosa · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    You think in 10 years she'll have problems? :) I wonder how her career is doing these days, anyway.

    --
    Better living through obfuscation. Project White Noise
  31. I keep this in mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I blog I keep this in mind. My worst enemy will use this against me in my weakest moment to do maximum damage.

    Remember, what you blog WILL be used against you. But if you only supply your enemy with Nerf balls it won't be an effective weapon.

    And that's why I'm posting anonymously.

    1. Re:I keep this in mind by chris.evans · · Score: 1

      Hmm, Someday we'll look back and wish we didnt lose the 1st amendment. I persons personal blog is a diary and shouldnt be use to against them. What is considered an inappropiate blog?

  32. job hunting by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 1

    About 5 years ago, I did a search on google for my boss. He did not have a very unique last name, so all I did was narrow searches down to vicinities he was likely to have lived in. It only took a few minutes. He was convinced it would be very difficult to find him on google becuase of his name. Problem is, anyone looking for you on google, would already know a little bit about you, and that is enough to dig up newspaper articles, jail records, resumes, and all sorts of stuff. I would rather not have my future boss finding me on myspace doing keg stands, or mooning someone with a half-shaved-ass. I do/have done stupid shit just for laughs, just like everyone else. That doesn't mean I use the same judgement in a professional setting. I would rather be interviewed without any pre-conceived notions.

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
    1. Re:job hunting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      ..mooning someone with a half-shaved-ass. I do/have done stupid shit just for laughs, just like everyone else.
      Such as that time you were shaving your ass, and halfway through the process, someone very moon-able walked by.
    2. Re:job hunting by assassinator42 · · Score: 1

      Are you sure it was him and not someone with the same name? I have a relatively uncommon last name, but I know there's at least one person with the same name as me who lives in the same general area.

  33. Totally Misleading Headline by rjstanford · · Score: 4, Informative

    From TFA:

    But Comedy Central disagreed, asking him to change the name (He did, to "I'm an Intern in New York") and to stop revealing how its brand of comedic sausage is stuffed.

    "They said they figured something like this would happen eventually because blogs had become so popular," said Mr. McDonald, now 23, who kept his internship. "It caught them off guard. They didn't really like that."


    So, basically, they objected to him sharing potentially confidential information (fair enough) and to his using their name for his personal (readership/ad) gain. Again, fair enough. He still got to keep the blog, and he's still an intern there. Oh, and he didn't have the blog when he "applied," anyway.

    Le sigh. If the editors don't RTFA, what hope is there for the rest of the readership again?

    --
    You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    1. Re:Totally Misleading Headline by Anonymous+MadCoe · · Score: 1

      I agree, Actually quite funny, that all they asked him not to do was things they would ahve asked him if he used any other way of distribution. And they did not ask anything unreasonable.

  34. Did anyone else... by Sentri · · Score: 1

    Go and immediately start googling alias's, full names etc of their own to see what pops up?

    *hastily edits some forum posts*

    *hastily deletes some blog entries*

    --
    Can't we all just get along
    1. Re:Did anyone else... by novus+ordo · · Score: 1

      You won't like this.

      --
      "You're everywhere. You're omnivorous."
    2. Re:Did anyone else... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I monitor my google, 411, yahoo, ask, and about 10 whitepages sites for any personal information.
      My robots.txt blogs my blog site.
      I limit tastless items on my website to images without useful descriptions.
      Most of my site is for close friends - you have to "know" where to go to find it. There are no links deep enough from any public part of the site. I use virtual domains --- a lot. A virtual domain is up for a purpose, used, then removed after a few months.

      Really offensive material is password protected.

    3. Re:Did anyone else... by SirPavlova · · Score: 1

      Nope, because I've been doing it now for quite some time. Your comment did inspire me to go out & check a few more search engines than I normally do. I found myself on Yahoo, but nowhere else, & it won't be long until I've dropped out of their cache either now.

      As novus ordo mentioned above, the Internet Archive is bad for this... you can have pages removed, but that only works if it was your page to begin with. Even if it was your page, it's removal only, no alteration.

      Eh... removing the various pseudonyms I use is another matter entirely.

      --
      Yar.
  35. The internet: a threat to the powerful by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 1

    I think that this shows the power of the internet. Mass communication is a tremendous source of power. It changes government policy and it is also a threat to corporate power and even the power of a school. Here's to the internet! Here's to blogging!

  36. Re:Work For a Big Tech Co & Your Life Is Publ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From everything that I've seen - and read in numerous books (see the Unwanted Gaze which details many privacy breaches within the MS employee base), working for a large tech company, especially MS, represents the end of your privacy. Managers there very obviously disclose anything about any employee resulting from both private investigators as well as spyware that is implanted on the home computers of those simply checking their mail using a web browser. I've personally heard lots of medical records of spouses and children as well as tons of other slanderous stuff from these tech companies in their zeal to shape their subordinates and influence purchasing decisions.

  37. mhmm... by niteice · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    --
    ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
  38. Don't forget to Google(TM) them, too... by jim_deane · · Score: 1


    Your future bosses and the people interviewing you are also online, and may have interesting bits of information floating around there.

    If nothing else, it makes sense to include personal information searches in your "company background research" phase of interview preparation. The more you know, the better prepared you are.

    Jim

  39. Naivete by xihr · · Score: 1

    I fail to see why bloggers are perennially shocked by this. It really has nothing to do with blogging -- if you talk about company business in public, you're in danger of being fired. It's that simple.

    The fact that bloggers seem more inclined to blab publicly doesn't really affect anything to do with this. You talk about company business, you risk being fired. It doesn't matter whether or not you do it by leaking it to a reporter, talk about it in a bar, or post it on the Web for all to see.

    The moral indignation of bloggers on this issue is really quite laughable. The very same features of a blog that allow you to get your word out to a wide (but willing) audience easily are precisely the same features that mean it'll be easy for your company to find out you're talking out of turn. That you can do it easily and reach a lot of people quickly doesn't really change the fact that you shouldn't be doing it -- blog or no.

    You can't have it both ways.

    1. Re:Naivete by cubicledrone · · Score: 1

      Corporate Culture is a euphemism. It stands for slavery, tyranny, autocracy, theft, subterfuge, treachery, incompetence, and the infliction of suffering upon the weak by the unjust. Simply put, it is everything that society claims to oppose.

      --
      Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    2. Re:Naivete by xihr · · Score: 1

      Capitalism sucks!!!! Boo hoo, I can't do everything I want all the time with no restrictions! Nice naunced analysis, there.

    3. Re:Naivete by cubicledrone · · Score: 1

      Capitalism

      Funny how corporate fuckitude dresses itself in "capitalism" when it wants good PR.

      I can't do everything I want all the time with no restrictions!

      Why not? It's the free market, right? Or, more specifically, it's the free market for some, and slavery for others.

      --
      Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
    4. Re:Naivete by xihr · · Score: 1

      Yeah, having to work for a living is slavery! You're totally not illustrating my point or anything!

  40. What's worse is.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when someone you know writes details about you in a blog. I agree with the sentiments here about how it is very foolish to put personal details on the web. A lot of youngsters do it today to be 'hip n cool'.

    But I feel the issue that is even more disturbing is that if you have friends who blog anyway, then details about you (stuff that you may not wish others to know) will end up on their blog someday.

    Imagine some guy whom you went to school with starts to create a blog detailing his entire life and he posts childhood class pictures (with you in them), names everyone in the picture, and even gives a small anecdote about each of them (including you). This is something you have very little or no control of. I could come up with more scenarios but you get the picture.

    How does one stop that? Not make friends with someone blogs?

  41. What about countermeasures? by Marsmensch · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I think we all realize there is a common thread in all of these issues regarding blogs, myspace, et al. It is that there are cases where people have cast something out to the internet and wish they could rein it in again. Obviously they can't, but what about obscuring it and making it harder to find? Is there some way to populate google's results with new stuff about yourself so as to bury the embarassing content?

    --
    Slashdot: news from nerds.
  42. The revolution! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "For them, shifting from a like-minded audience of peers to an intergenerational, hierarchical workplace can be jarring."

    Let's get rid of this horrible corporatism and finally be a world of peers :-)

  43. Newsflash: Becoming a responsible adult is jarring by Retired+Replicant · · Score: 1

    So basically the point here is that making the transition from being an irresponsible young idiot to being a responsible adult is a jarring experience. What a revelation!

  44. Well, duh by buss_error · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I'm amazed at the number of people that come to interviews and think I haven't run a search on their name through Google or other search engines.

    While I most likely wouldn't call anyone to an interview whose postings show indescretion, I often think of how I'd just like to see their face when I place a copy of their search results in front of them.

    Why do you think I post under a 'nym?

    --
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
    1. Re:Well, duh by CthulhuDreamer · · Score: 1

      "I'd just like to see their face when I place a copy of their search results in front of them.

      Why do you think I post under a 'nym?"

      I post under a 'nym because someone is using my real name as their 'nym. Doing a Google search on me pointless as it returns thousands of hits from a myriad of unrealated people and sites. Employers have tried and failed many times before.

      It also means I can plausibly deny the ones I was reponsible for, so it's not all bad. :)

    2. Re:Well, duh by chris.evans · · Score: 1

      That is not right. I have a record on usenet (groups.google.com) that can make me look like an idiot that ask too many stupid questions about computers. My point is you should judge a person on their past postings on usenet because people can change and become smarter.

    3. Re:Well, duh by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't have much luck with me. My name turns up about a half dozen hits, two of which are my photo portfolio and 2 are deviantart listings that reference said portfolio.

      Then again, if you knew my most preferred pseduonyms... ;)

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    4. Re:Well, duh by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Heh yea, my name is really common, and seems to be shared by a lot of really staid people so my few exploits under my real name don't show up against the general backdrop.

      If a prospective employer knew enough to look in the right place, it would be a different story. I'm not ashamed to own up to anything I've put online, but I don't necesarrily want to have a person who doesn't know me well forming a snap judgement on a random sampling of material.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    5. Re:Well, duh by ragnar · · Score: 0

      I often think of how I'd just like to see their face when I place a copy of their search results in front of them.

      This is fair game, in my opinion, only if you find something which contradicts the persons resume.

      --
      -- Solaris Central - http://w
    6. Re:Well, duh by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      I used to be a rabic Mac-zealot when I was a teen and, unfortunately, posted a stupid comment on some blog using my real name. Because that blog's been running for years and years and years, if you Google for my name, it's the first result... but I posted it in, what, 2000? I don't feel that way anymore, and if there was a way to remove it from Google, I would in a flash.

      Point is, I think judging job applicants by Google searches is patently unfair. You're not seeing the person as they are now, you're seeing them when they were younger and more stupid.

    7. Re:Well, duh by identity0 · · Score: 1

      I hope you're not putting too much faith in what you find in Google. I have a friend who happens to share a name with a gay porn star, who is of course the first hit on Google for his name. Thankfully, it's the kind of thing where looking at a (ahem) pic would confirm that it's not him, but imagine if it were not easily verifiable, like someone writing a blog about their experiences doing hard drugs.

      As with blog news reports, things posted on blogs generally have no verifiability. That includes if the person posting is who they say they are. Someone could easily slander someone by planting a fake blog of them, and it would be hard to find out it's not true.

      Anyway, I hope you are not taking blog posts supposedly by a job candidate at face value. Anything you read on a blog should be prefaced with, "A random person on the internet says that John Doe said: ".

  45. Get in my belly. Non free life sucks. by twitter · · Score: 1
    Was the woman his grandmother? I wouldn't hire that dude at all.

    If you are really that rash, I don't want to work for you. The problem with a non free economy is that I might not have a choice.

    As large companies are increasingly favored, the assholes win. When society and government tolerate blatantly anti-competitive behavior, your ability to switch jobs or start your own business dissapears. The assholes in any company realize this and abuse their subordinates as they please. The subordinate has the unenviable choice of career change, poverty or sucking it up.

    Our trade with non free powers like China has not made them more free, it has made us less free.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  46. It is a cultural divide. by twitter · · Score: 1
    Lets not couch this in terms of some kind of cultural divide. These people are putting things in public that should be private and then surprised by their own ignorance.

    Human nature has not been changed by blogging. Everyone has their moments and they are witnessed in public. If you work for a company long enough, people will get to know you and your faults. The difference between then and now is that now people don't have to go on word of mouth, they can see the pictures themselves.

    It has nothing to do with job performance.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

    1. Re:It is a cultural divide. by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      It has nothing to do with job performance.

      Sure it does. Your example of everyone "having their moments" in public is not the same as deliberately choosing to then describe, link to, and post photographs documenting your "moments." Those are usually moments that seem funny because they are outrageous while still endearing within your peer group, or don't seem too offensive by your own generation's standards... but those who have been raised with the web at their fingertips have absolutely no excuse for not being able to understand how visible this stuff is to a wider audience. And people who have judgement that poor absolutely are going to be problematic on the job. They have poor judgement, a lack of critical thinking, and an inability to grasp causality/consequences. If you think those failures/defects aren't going to have any impact on the job, then you must be talking about ditch digging or Wal-Mart door greeting, etc.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:It is a cultural divide. by Jim_Callahan · · Score: 1

      Companies require at least an image of professionalism. If you don't at least make an effort to keep your quirky shit to yourself in public, you are a liability to the image of the company, and thus the company iteslf. Being indiscreet is, believe it or not, both a vice and a business detriment.

      So, yes, it has everything to do with job performance. It means that you're less qualified to do the job than the other 100 (or other 1000000, if you do anything in the computer field) people that applied.

      --
      ...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
  47. Re:don't look over the pond, mate by Zaphod2016 · · Score: 1

    Here in America, our legal system has been accepting email and IP addresses as evidence of identity for years now.

    The real danger here is not violations of genuine privacy, but rather, the ability of truly bad people to sabatoge enemies without any worry of consequence.

    My mom hated computers until the day she died. She didn't trust them. She said that so long as text could be deleted or added, she couldn't trust any computer as any sort of reliable evidence (she was a lawyer, I am not).

    The older I get, the more I regret mocking this opinion as naive.

  48. I regret nothing! by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I do appreciate the value of discretion for people in these lines of work. However, I did silly things under pseudonyms for ages on the Internet - still do, actually - and it is pretty easily traceable to me in RL. And I've realized I don't regret any of it.

    I'm no intern, nor am I an up-and-coming executive. The sort of life I'm looking for and the "adult" lifestyle I pursue is one that's totally compatible with some random guy who makes bad jokes on message boards, produces cheaply done artwork, remixes pop music without permission, writes "Doctor Who" fanfic, is a member of a pagan coven, MCs cheezy presentations at hacker cons, and posts strange dreams to livejournal. I may not ever make partner in the prestigious XYZ firm, I may not ever break six figures, but I'll be somewhere doing something that is compatible with someone like me.

    So, having things on my "permanent record" like the stuff I've done with phonelosers.org or 2600 or whatever else is strangely liberating in its way, because it pretty much forces me into putting my money where my mouth is and seeking out a lifestyle I'd be happy in, rather than one I'll endure for the sake of appearances.

    Hi, my name is Rob, and I'm Googleable.

    1. Re:I regret nothing! by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 2, Funny

      OK, the cheaply done artwork is fine - I mean who doesn't like to doodle. And, I can even understand the pagan coven - I mean, we all have to nurture our spiritual side. But the Dr. Who fanfic? That's sick man. You should get some counselling. Oh well, at least it's not Star Trek...

      --
      That is all.
    2. Re:I regret nothing! by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 1

      HAHAHA, you owe me a keyboard! One with Dr Who stickers on.

  49. Re:Get in my belly. Non free life sucks. by NamShubCMX · · Score: 1
    If everyone posts stupid things on their blogs (which is FINE...) then there is a big chance that manager-types will also be guilty. Long-term, this can only causes a long-needed shift in "Corporate Culture".

    (The funny thing about "corporate culture" is that it's self-inflicted. Every suits-type feel the need to wear a stupid tie, but all (almost...) agree it's stupid...)

    I say, post whatever you want on your blogs, or anywhere. Being turned down from a job (you wouldn't like anyway, if the managements are such assholes) isn't as bad as not doing things you enjoy (or ranting on the web about it) because you want to fit in.

    But although it looks depressing, I believe as a new generation of managers emerge this actually gets better. There *is* a choice not to work for assholes. I've been turned down from a few jobs because of tattoos but to me it always was a filter for shallow, control-freak managers and good dudes.

    As long as you don't "suck it up" there is a chance of a change.

    --
    We've always been at war with Eurasia.
  50. 3 systems of ethics (CRN has this all figured out) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It may surprise you to realize that different organizations in the world are actually following different systems of ethics/principles that are fundamentally incompatible with each other:

    Guardian Principles: Provide Security (i.e. negative-sum and zero-sum problems, such as protecting land from neighbors)
    "Guardian principles are appropriate for governments and police forces, organizations that defend laws and land. In such a group, betrayal can cause disaster; force is frequently necessary; tradition is valuable; and loyalty is more important than money"

    Commercial Principles: Optimize Trade (i.e. positive-sum problems, such as bartering my surplus for your surplus)
    "Commercial principles are appropriate for business and trade, which seek to increase value to all parties involved. Money is the lifeblood of commerce. Innovation and efficiency are more useful than tradition, and the use of force is severely frowned on."

    Information Principles: Promote Abundance (i.e. unlimited-sum problems, "too cheap to meter")
    "Think of a programmer working at 2:00 AM to add a feature to an Open Source program he didn't write. The programmer is not paid for this work; he does it because he wants the program to be more usable and more popular; he has been working for six hours without a break." "The Information system has arisen to facilitate the production and copying of freely shared information. This system of action is related to the so-called "hacker ethic" and to the older system of academic endeavor."

    If you scroll down about a quarter of the way through that page, you find "Table 1: Comparison of Systems" which makes it abundantly clear that the goals and means of the 3 systems are incompatible. They go on to give examples of organizations that attempted to combine the different systems, or to apply principles of one system to the wrong kind of problems, invariably with bad results (example: the Soviet Union tried to apply Guardian principles to economic and information activities, and we can all see how well that worked out).

    Actually, I will shamelessly plug CRN's main research direction here too---Molecular Nanotechnology/Molecular Manufacturing (MNT/MM) is something more Slashdotters should become informed about, so they can help spread the word. It's going to have a profound effect on our planet, and currently it looks like it will arrive within 10 to 20 years and we need to do lots of preparation before then or there are huge risks to our survival.

    P.S. Sorry to post anonymous, Please mod this up.

  51. ok, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if "blog" isn't a word, then what is it?

  52. Eh. by ZorbaTHut · · Score: 1

    In a year or so I'm going to be in a position to hire people. And yeah, I'm going to look at their blogs if I can find them. I might object to people talking about how they plan to fuck up every job they have, or chatting amiably about how much money they stole from their last employer, and so on and so forth.

    But assuming they're not an obvious asshole, I'd actually *prefer* employees who have a sense of fun and a life. I'd rather see a blog talking, side-by-side, about work and home life and parties - or even just home life and parties - than one chronicling the minute details of work.

    Maybe I'm unique in wanting employees that are interesting smart skilled people, but if you immediately throw out everyone who's interesting, you end up with a company full of boring people. And that's not the company I want to work at. Or run.

    So, yeah. Posting those party pics might mean you can't work in middle management at Wal-Mart. And if that's a serious problem for you, then . . . I guess maybe you shouldn't post the party pics. But there are companies out there that don't care so much.

    --
    Breaking Into the Industry - A development log about starting a game studio.
  53. Students with the tools are threats by heroine · · Score: 0

    The more tools you get, the more threatened your bosses are going to get. Employees who can host blogs and write killer software are going to get shafted as their tools invade what was once the exclusive domain of their bosses.

  54. Problem by Mark_MF-WN · · Score: 1
    The problem is when a lazy nurse that does more harm than good can't be fired. Admittedly this isn't a terrible problem in many hospitals, but in types of medical care it can become a major issue. Psych hospitals are a good example. Psych nursing has a high burnout rate among competent, caring nurses. As a result, a majority of psych nurses are lazy, incompetent, and don't give a shit. This in turn just increases the burnout rate among the good ones because they have to do the majority of the work. They inevitably switch to less stressful forms of nursing. Paliative care is another example.

    So if you ever have the misfortune of becoming mentally ill or old, you'll find yourself wishing that it was easier to get shitty nurses fired, and that there were more nurses being trained by nursing schools (nursing schools deliberately keep the number of graduates low to maintain high salaries for nurses -- like most professional associations).

    1. Re:Problem by cubicledrone · · Score: 1

      The problem is when a lazy nurse that does more harm than good can't be fired.

      The problem is the difference between reasonable and unreasonable. Someone doing "more harm than good" being fired is reasonable. What hospital administrators (read: corporate middle managers) and the rest of the "I'm too capitalist for my money clip/screw everyone else" crowd want is the ability to fire anyone at any time for any reason and that is unreasonable, because it will lead to the exact same problems.

      This myth that capitalism is some kind of neo-Darwinist game show needs to go. Now.

      --
      Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
  55. Jeez man. by Khaed · · Score: 1

    And the next story...

    Humor? Slashdotters need not apply.

  56. Re:Get in my belly. Non free life sucks. by ces · · Score: 1

    I've been turned down from a few jobs because of tattoos but to me it always was a filter for shallow, control-freak managers and good dudes.

    Couldn't get away with that in Seattle and a few other places I can think of, at least if you are hiring for any kind of technical or creative position.

    I mean who care if the DBA has tattoos, long blue hair, and facial piercings as long as they know what they are doing.

    --
    Happy Fun Ball is for external use only.
  57. ...So are Tatoos and piercings -for now by hguorbray · · Score: 1

    -although you can usually safely remove the piercings and the holes will grow back/be less noticable.

    -Still, based on the rise of body art in the last 15 years I would say that this will evenetually be better tolerated in all but the stuffiest workplaces eventually.

    I think its a generational thing too -business attire is a whole lot more casual/different/varied now than it was in the 50s and 60s

    -who knows what bodymods/cybernetics the next generation of freaks will be favoring in 20-30 years??

    The illustrated manager of the future will probably be shaking his head at the worker who are using nanotech to make parts of their bodies different colors, or who have symbiotic implants, or ???

    Just remember that the ladies of some of the more decadent middle age courts used to wear wigs with live birds in them.....and we still have the names and descriptions in some cases, even if there weren't any pictures. So I guess those people earned their own sort of myspace like moteriety.

    -What's the Speed of Dark?

    1. Re:...So are Tatoos and piercings -for now by Jim_Callahan · · Score: 1

      More likely, professional clothing will be long enough to cover any body markings present on one's skin, and people will develop methods of tattoo removal involving laser treatment and abrasion... oh, wait, welcome to TWENTY YEARS AGO, when all the tattooed rebels of the 60s and 70s went out to find real jobs.

      Seriously, it's a nice fantasy, but history does not support your suppositions. Also, what is this 'rise in body art in the last 15 years'? My impression is that there's been a decrease in that period... and since my impression is the dissenting one i'm going to say that the burden of proof/citation is on you, sir.

      --
      ...it's really a sad day for America when we require a goddamn ACT OF CONGRESS to make our DVD players work properly. ~
    2. Re:...So are Tatoos and piercings -for now by dlZ · · Score: 1

      Unless you do something pretty extreme, nice "adult workplace" clothing will cover up most things. Right now I look like the nice business man, with a shirt and tie. Later I will probably throw on some jeans and a t-shirt, and look like a young punk (I guess age has been good to me) because of my visable ink. Unless it's something very extreme, like facial piercings stretched large enough to not close / shrink much naturally or ink on your hands, most people will never know. Actually, most people are quite surprised that I have any ink if they find out. I don't hide the fact, but I don't scream it out either at work. Actually, the only thing visable on me right now is that I did have my ears done, and they used to be stretched a bit (to a 00 gauge at their largest.) But I never took them far enough that they didn't shrink most of the way, and it just looks like I had my ears pierced at one point. And hell, if I do ever decide to put anything in them again, they'll never close up all the way :) I haven't actually worn anything in them for about 8 years now. We'll leave hidden body piercings out of this conversation, though.

      I would also have to say that if anything body modification seems to be on a down trend. 10 years ago it seemed everyone around me had at least their ears stretched. Now all I seem to see are upturned polos or pants down to the knees.

      --
      rm -rf ./evidence @ punkcomp
    3. Re:...So are Tatoos and piercings -for now by Pope · · Score: 1
      Also, what is this 'rise in body art in the last 15 years'? My impression is that there's been a decrease in that period..

      There's a marked INCREASE in body art in the last 15 years, and if you looked you'd notice it. I see FAR more people with tattoos and odd piercings now than I did 15 years ago; hell, you can't walk down the street these days without seeing some trendy early 20s female without a lower back tattoo. That says "increase" to me.

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
  58. Paranoia by Pecisk · · Score: 1

    I would claim it a simply paranoia and simply misunderstaning HOW real life happens that I get in politics, how I get work, etc.

    Yep, clever people sometimes do stupid or "uneasy for everyone" things, but usually are sorry about that, so almost everyone forgives them, forgets that and life moves on. Beatles haven't lost nothing of their star power when they admitted they used stimulators while rock'n'rolling in Hamburg. And let's be clear - most people don't care HOW much you have been drunk in one party twenty years ago - if you didn't broke a law, didn't hit anyone, didn't drive car while drunk - you have ALMOST nothing to worry about. ALMOST nothing but spin doctors, but hey, they will be there for you anyway :)

    Privacy is overhyped. But worries about blogging from both sides - individuals and companies - also are too...just worries and nothing more. Certainly, there are several individuals who will do stupid things, but they will do that anyway.

    About company information and blogging - well, if you are working here, you have agreement and usually, certain level of loyality, I suppose. If you are not and have problems with attitude or even hate your work, then you are in trouble anyway, and sure have to leave, with or without trolling about your employer in blog. If you don't have to work anywhere else - then simply avoid talk bad or anything about work, because it could create confusion and frustrate and won't help anyone, even yourself. Keep it profesional, not personal.

    Be reasonable. Learn to be that way. It is not matter of blogging, it is matter of people and their attitude to others.

    --
    user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
  59. Common name or unique name? by clickclickdrone · · Score: 1

    If your prospective new employer is Googling for you, it probably helps if your name is John Smith then you can deny everything. OTOH, if your name is Donovan Putz-Marionette then chances are they'll have you bang to rights.

    --
    I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
  60. too much fuss by l3v1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    [sarcastic half-joking mode on]

    Saying, writing, opening up to the wide audience your stupidity, wierdness, incompetence, intolerance, ignorance, unability to filter private information from useless public stuff, bad spelling, lack of imagination, lack of social life, bad or lacking love life, low skills in problem solving, bad opinions about certain companies, lacking technical skills, etc. etc. and you'd still expect a decent company to hire you ?

    Thing is, on this planet, you can always be certain that there does indeed exist at least one person that is dumber than you. So, all you have to do is find that person and convince him/her to hire you.

    If you can't imagine that some things in your life should be kept private (I'm not talking about kinky habits or any disgusting behavior and such, just simple things) then I can't imagine you working with or for me.

    --
    I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
    1. Re:too much fuss by CanadianCrackPot · · Score: 1

      Wow I'm glad I post with aliases, and on items unimportant to work. I.E. I'd don't post of the illegal stuff I don't do anyway, and if its a party for work or somesuch the boss would be invited anyway. Just to be curious I did a search on my aliases. So far only Slashdot came up in a google search (rather embarrasing considering they didn't link to the blogger blog I have). So at most people will know about my tech opinions. Whop dee do! Anyone who tries to hire me right away will know about my burning hatred for Windows and Apple Machintosh. Two ways of computing that have shafted me more than should be legal.

      --
      Good programmers drink beer to relieve job stress.
      Great programmers drink hard liquor and work best hungover.
  61. checking my own google results by tim_abell · · Score: 1

    Yes, I did.
    But I share my name with a very popular b-list film star (who was in attack of the 60ft centre folds), so anything that relates to me is somewhat buried.
    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tim+abell

    Mixed blessing I guess.

    So next time I'm in an C# developer interview I'll see if I get asked about my acting career...

    --
    Respect copyright - the GPL relies on it.
  62. Congrats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you'd done a better title, that would've been a truly classy crappost. The body was well done indeed; it made me laugh.

  63. Norm Life Baby by the0ther · · Score: 0

    I can't wait for the geezers to be buried. I'm tired of these assholes who run the show. They are simply no fun.

  64. Blogging and Inevitable Disclosure by Logic · · Score: 1

    I was "googled" rather extensively for the last two jobs I've applied for. In both cases, I believe my blog has helped my case, rather than hurt it: I talk about interests that I have outside of work, about observations regarding the field that I'm in, and generally give people a more broad sense of who I am. By the same token, I've spent quite a bit of time in front of a computer searching for the names of interviewers as well; knowing their biases, interests, and frame of reference ahead of time puts you on a solid footing with them from the first introduction.

    It's strange to see people who don't understand that they will be evaluated on the information they make available about themselves. When you enter an interview, you will be judged on what you say, how you react, your body language, and a host of other things; why on earth would publically-available information on the internet be any different? Similarly, if you provided internal documents or confidential information to the press, you'd be fired; why exactly would posting it on your blog for the world to see be treated differently?

    When I was younger, I never posted online unless it was under a nom de plume, and as a result I behaved like a child; when there are no consequences for what you say, you say stupid and malicious things. As I matured, I stopped hiding behind those anonymous alter-egos, and starting taking responsibility (and a certain degree of pride) in the things I said online. You can find some incredibly dumb things that I posted while in university, and you can hopefully find some more insightful things posted more recently, but I'll accept responsibility for what you find, because that was me at the time I wrote it. Employers may make of that what they will, but they'll know enough about me to make a reasonable hiring decision.

    Food for thought: tattoos applied during childhood can cause employment difficulties later in life. Ah, the joys of making permanent, lasting decisions before one has reached the level of maturity to properly balance those choices. Perhaps children should post under anonymous identities until they are better able to appreciate the effect their words can have later in life?

    --
    -Ed Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.
    1. Re:Blogging and Inevitable Disclosure by ragnar · · Score: 1

      Excellent points, all around. I've undergone a similar transformation where the bridge between my online writing and day to day life are complementary. I should hope that a future employer may see my participation in technical forums as token evidence of my qualification and passion for technology.

      --
      -- Solaris Central - http://w
  65. Interesting by ryanmetcalf · · Score: 1

    I too, recently graduated and began working an internship, only I am allowed to blog about it and do. http://www.ravenengineering.net/blog/intern/rmetca lf/ I imagine working for the county gov't is significantly different than working for a mega corp. My friends that intern at Honeywell, can't discuss pretty much anything because its all trade secrets that Honeywell is afraid Garmin will steal.

  66. ...and don't tell anyone you know you have a blog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not enough to just not use your real name, you have to make sure noone links to your site using your name either. If anyone else posts your name as a hyperlink to your blog, Google will associate your blog with that name and people will be able to find it quite simply.

    To stay anonyomous blogging on the net, you need to avoid telling anyone in Real Space about your blog and then minimize any identifiable data. ie. don't mention region, local area names, employment, the real names of other people you know (because people searching for them can then find your blog), or frankly practically anything worth posting.

    It's extremely difficult to keep a blog and talk about anything personal without being found.

    (and then there is the added bonus that you won't know that people have found your blog because they are unlikely to tell you they are reading your blog, lest you start censoring yourself or for fear that you'll think they are stalking you.)

    Anonimity and blogging are not a good mix.

  67. heck, just look how they dress by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

    >I don't know where kids get the idea that the only ones who
    >would ever look at their MySpace blogs are people in their
    >own age group.

    Weirdly, they even think this way offline.

    For example, apparently (judging by the shocked, offended looks on their faces), only men within a couple years of their own age were supposed to look at those vast expanses of exposed flesh on college age girls ... I guess they thought you turn in your eyes when you reach 25.

    1. Re:heck, just look how they dress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      vast expanses of exposed flesh on college age girls

      Link plz.

    2. Re:heck, just look how they dress by Locke03 · · Score: 1

      Any University town, late August, drive down the street, enjoy.

      --
      I don't care what youre doing so much as the idiotic way you're doing it.
  68. Tatoos on the rise by hguorbray · · Score: 1

    OK -I'll bite

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tattoo
    (Although its wiki this IS a respected pollster result)

    Popular and youth culture
    Current estimates suggest one in seven or over 39 million people in North America have at least one tattoo.

    A recent Harris Poll finds that 16% of all adults in the United States have at least one tattoo. The highest incidence of tattoos was found among the gay, lesbian and bisexual population (31%) and among Americans ages 25 to 29 years (36%) and 30 to 39 years (28%). Regionally, people living in the West (20%) are more likely to have tattoos.

    approximately equal percentages of males (16%) and females (15%) have tattoos.

    This survey was conducted online between July 14 and 20, 2003 by Harris Interactive(R) among a nationwide sample of 2,215 adults.

    Although the above is from a small sample it suggests that more people have been tatooed in the past 10 years than in the previous 10.

    30 to 39 years (28%) -Assuming these people didn't get their tatoos before they were 18 this group would have started geting tattoos ~1985

    25 to 29 years (36%) -These people would have started getting tats ~1996

    So this is more than just a 60s/70s phenomenon -it acually appears to be ramping up from the mid- 80s

    unfortunately the poll did not cover 18-25 year olds or it would be clearer if the upward trend is continuing.

  69. What about when bloggers/MySpacers become parents? by FourDegreez · · Score: 1

    Think about your kids digging up dirt on you one day.

  70. you guys out to see by SaberTaylor · · Score: 1

    the young punk rockers tattooed in all their glory at a show. Looks good in the mix, but

    I feel bad for them if anyone of them wakes up in 10 years and decides to be a square.

    --
    If you need text styles to communicate then you don't have a message.
  71. s/out/aught/; or i mean ought by SaberTaylor · · Score: 1

    just lifted weights. sorry. hopefully someday G-d will spellcheck the Internet and there will be many hymns of thanksgiving.

    --
    If you need text styles to communicate then you don't have a message.
  72. Not true by lorcha · · Score: 1
    I can think of a guy who was verifiably a coke-head, drunk-driving, partying-while-he-was-in-the-armed-services-where- he-should-not-have-been-partying (with the photos to prove it!), marijuana-smoking, draft-dodger.

    His name is President George W. Bush.

    I don't think him having a MySpace profile would have changed any of that.

    --
    "Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
  73. Same thing happened to me by lorcha · · Score: 1
    Thank god I eventually was able to remember the password (not to the website, to the domain name that poined to the website). That was good enough to redirect to a server that I control. "vi robots.txt", and we're good to go.

    Yeah, that page is now gone from google and wayback--the two main offenders.

    --
    "Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent