If the MPAA succeeds, they could simply Subpoena the list.
A better solution would be for every one to get DeCSS(This is just the windows exe), and if worse comes to worse, pass it along individually to every one you know.
geeks now have a two front battle of proving they aren't pirates to the court, and fixing their already dubious reputations with their own communities. There is a diffrence though, between these guys and someone like Kevin Mintnik. No one is going to think that what these guys did was wrong, really. So people are not going to look down on them to begin with.
I read the book just last week; witch may be why it's so prevalent in my thoughts right now. In the past, it always bothered me when someone would cite a fiction book as a reason not to do something (or even worse a movie). But, I'm going to do precisely that right now. Mostly because I feel a little bit like Winston Smith right now, knowing something to be true when increasingly the world around me, and the people in it believes the opposite.
No, I don't like what the DVDCCA is doing; I think that it is morally wrong, both in the suppression of free speech, and the fact that they would knowingly squelch all of our liberties for a few profit points. But it isn't the ever-present Man that's perpetuating the doublethink; it's us.
There was a technical flaw in the fool.com article
"Let me repeat all this: The DeCSS program is neither designed nor necessary for copying DVD movies, which isn't economically feasible anyway and not technically possible with the partially prewritten blank disks being sold today. In any case, a tool to copy DVDs would be legal for personal use."
Or rather, two compound technical flaws.
In reality, DeCSS can do nothing but copy DVD movies. I doubt that many of you have even run the program. If you had you would know that it is a windows program (though, I'm not sure if DeCSS itself had been ported to Linux, of if just css-auth was derived from it by LiViD). DeCSS, or at least they copy I have is a Windows GUI application with only two buttons. One says "Select Folder" and the other says, "Transfer". I've posted my own mirror, if anyone doesn't believe me, they can see for themselves.
The other flaw is a bit deeper, and it comes from a failed technical understanding of what comprises the Movie on a DVD disk. Frequently, and this article as well, I've seen it stated that you can simply copy the data right off the disk with a standard file system read. This is incorrect, you can copy the encrypted data, but there is a fundamental difference between encrypted data and 'regular' data. The DVD movie is an element of pure data. The images and are nothing more then information. When you copy the contents of a DVD with a standard file system read, that is not what you get. Instead what you get is white noise. Worthless garbage. The encrypted data and they key are two halves of a whole, without ether, you do not have a movie. What DeCSS does is remove the pure data from the physical medium, and into the pure ether of information. What DeCSS does, is copy the MOVIE. In its pure form, unprotected from copying, it can be viewed in Linux, or anywhere with an mpeg2 decompresser. It can also be shrunk down to VCD size and passed around the Internet.
Yes, it is possible to digitize the movie, and get the data that way, but it would require much more hardware then what would be required with DeCSS. Simply dumping the video to the hard drive uncompressed would require a 150 gig hard drive for a two-hour movie. (This hard drive, of course, would be able record at 21.3 megs/second-sustained as well...). Alternatively one could purchase a MPEG encoder card for a few hundred dollars. Along with an external DVD player to plug into Yes, you of course wouldn't be able to duplicate the DVD image onto a burned DVD, because of the zeroed out pits, but after you merge the two halves to form the movie, it wouldn't be necessary. Right now a 40gig UDMA hard drive sells for about $350. That's about $40 per movie. And that's bound to get cheaper as the year progresses. Using a data Tape would only cost $10 per movie, and if you really wanted to span 7 CD's the cost would be about $5 per movie. This is hardly what I would call economically unfeasible, and certainly less so then not using DeCSS to copy movies.
I've posted this information to slashdot before, and in several cases, I was ether called a moron or a Troll. I find it amazing that people could be so blind, so steeped in doublethink as to not only believe that DeCSS is can only be used to play movies in Linux, but to outright attack anything that doesn't conform to whatever it is they choose to believe
I've also been told that I shouldn't say what I'm saying, and that by saying it I am weakening our case. But, I cannot deny what I know to be true, and I cannot stand to see these untruths touted as reality.
But it dosn't matter, The program was initaly a windows program. Just beacuse I dissagree with the 'comon knowlage' dosn't mean I'm a troll. I think what the MPAA is trying to is a bad thing, and I hope they fail. But you braindead idiots arn't helping anything
Oooh! Nice troll! Except for the minor fact that DeCSS was distributed in *SOURCE* form. Go back to your bosses in Hollywood, Mr. Astroturf.
hrm... The copy of DeCSS I got of signal_11's mirror contains 4 files. a readme, an exe, and two DLLs: one for win9x, and one for win2k. No source here (and its not in the readme, I checked). AFAIK, DeCSS was orgionaly posted as binary, then source (under GPL).
But it dosn't matter. You still can't use a windows program in linux, even if it is in source form, Idiot.
I don't think DeCSS should die, quite the contrary. However, I don't think that its sole purpose was to aid in the creation of Livid. If it was, why not just make css-auth first?
It just pisses me off that so many uninformed morons are posting here 90% of whom don't even know what DeCSS even does!
As I understand it, you can watch that illegally copied DVD with a licensed Windows player which has its own CSS authentication method. Thus, you have successfully pirated a DVD which is perfectly playable, without decrypting anything (until final playback, using DVD Forum approved software).
You mean, you think that you can play a completly encrypted video file, with no keys whatsoever? Windows players use the keys on the Key tracks to decrypt the video. no key tracks, no video. I cant' belive this got marked as informative.
DeCSS makes it much easier than what? Capturing the video stream, encoding that and sending it out (or recording it onto another medium)? It's hard to imagine it getting much easier than that.
DeCSS: rip video, run throuh compressor Capturing: Record raw video from your hardwaer Player to your 150 gigabyte High RPM AV hard drive, compress. I don't know many people with 150 gig hard drives. Yes, you could buy a hardware mpeg comperssor, but that would cost a lot of money. A lot more money the DeCSS.
Right now VCD's really the only way to do it, but in a few years, it will be posible to pass VOBs around, without quality loss.
DeCSS doesn't make perfect copies of DVDs feasible, A riped DVD will be a perfict copy, unless you really, really wanted those encryption keys, and 20 second FBI warnings...
Why would someone who didn't copy DVDs before suddenly decide to start just because DeCSS came out?
Beacuse it alows them to do through software what would have cost them at least $1000 in hardware to do (mpeg encoder, standalone DVD player, etc).
The 'fact sheet' says that you can copy the data on the DVD to your hard drive, by simply doing 'ls' and then 'cp' to the HD. This is true, however those files will be worthless without the decryption Keys, on the first few tracks of the disk. What is so hard for you people to understand about that?
Sure, you can take the files off, and burn them to a blank DVD, but you'll never be able to Watch that DVD, without DeCSS
DeCSS is more like gzip. You extract the data into readable (or in this case, viewable) form. However, in the process you do make a copy. (Witch you can then send around the world, if you chose )
Why do you people insist on saying that DeCSS cannot be used to pirate movies?
DeCSS cannot play DVDs, DeCSS has only one function, and that is to copy the Video Data, unencrypted, To a hard drive. It can do nothing else. I have run it, and I know. So, you can scream your mantras as much as you like, you cannot change reality.
DeCSS is for copying DVDs.
Your thinking of css-auth.
*sigh* I do not agree with what the MPAA is doing. But I do not agree with attempting to spread untruth as true.
It has been shown again and again that decrypting and copying DVDs for purposes of piracy just isn't feasible right now, and it probably won't be for some time
Huh? Shown by whom? Uninformed slashdot idiots? Its completely feasible! Shrink down to VCD, and send out over dorm Ethernet/Cable/DSL. There's some quality loss, but DeCSS makes it much more easy.
Have you ever tried recording uncompressed hi-res video to a computer? You would need 150 gigs to store a feature length movie, and that's *if* your IO subsystems could take it at all. A $40 Television tuner card is not going to let you rip DVDs, you'd need at least a full hardware MPEG compressor (not cheap).
I know this, I've got a TV tuner card, and I can tell you, it's just not possible to sample a raw movie like that.
With DeCSS, all you need is 9 gigs of hard drive space
Get a life. De-CSS is *not* being used to pirate whatsoever
Hah, I almost laughed out loud when I read that. Are you really so dense? The files are being compressed down to VCD, and then ether burned or transferred online. Were you unaware of the existence of dvd-copy.com Take a look, and stop being so unbelievably blind.
No, I do not support the DVD-CCA, but I don't support idiotic doublethink ether.
I'm sorry, it doesn't follow that people who posess a DVD drive in their computer necessarily even have the slightest interest in playing movies. If they did, they would have:
You may be a troll, but I didn't see a link to this in any of the troll boards, so...
What the hell else are you going to do with a DVD-ROM drive? There are like 3 or 4 DVD-ROM titles out, and those all come on CD-ROMs as well
Well, I think your using the word 'owned' wrong. You have an owner of a copywrite, and you have an owner of the Media. The two uses of the word are non related.
This becomes a problem, though when things loose there physical form, but the distinction is clear. The MPAA still owns the Copywrite, but they do not own the data.
When you buy a car, you are also buying a database detailing what makes up the car. Cars are designed on computers now right? So a car is merely a physical representation of that device. Now, I don't think you would find many people who would say that You can't go an hack apart your Toyota Celica to find out what makes it work (in fact, you can probably order the technical manual that will tell you just that). But you couldn't go out and start building more and selling them as genuine Celicas, that would be a violation of Toyotas copyright.
You own the car; Toyota owns the 'idea' of the Car. You own the DVD data; The MPAA owns the copyright on the movie.
Hrm, NBC is owned by General Electric, witch has very little interest in anything other then making sure that GE doesn't look bad (They changed the movie 'atomic train' because GE owns and operates Nuclear Power plants, however Nuclear waste doesn't blow up anyway, so That's probably a good thing...)
I think CBS independent, still. And UPN is owned by Paramount, I don't know if paramount is still Independent.
Slashdot Mirror
If the MPAA succeeds, they could simply Subpoena the list.
A better solution would be for every one to get DeCSS(This is just the windows exe), and if worse comes to worse, pass it along individually to every one you know.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
EULA != LAW
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
geeks now have a two front battle of proving they aren't pirates to the court, and fixing their already dubious reputations with their own communities. There is a diffrence though, between these guys and someone like Kevin Mintnik. No one is going to think that what these guys did was wrong, really. So people are not going to look down on them to begin with.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
Have you ever read 1984?
I read the book just last week; witch may be why it's so prevalent in my thoughts right now. In the past, it always bothered me when someone would cite a fiction book as a reason not to do something (or even worse a movie). But, I'm going to do precisely that right now. Mostly because I feel a little bit like Winston Smith right now, knowing something to be true when increasingly the world around me, and the people in it believes the opposite.
No, I don't like what the DVDCCA is doing; I think that it is morally wrong, both in the suppression of free speech, and the fact that they would knowingly squelch all of our liberties for a few profit points. But it isn't the ever-present Man that's perpetuating the doublethink; it's us.
There was a technical flaw in the fool.com article
"Let me repeat all this: The DeCSS program is neither designed nor necessary for copying DVD movies, which isn't economically feasible anyway and not technically possible with the partially prewritten blank disks being sold today. In any case, a tool to copy DVDs would be legal for personal use."
Or rather, two compound technical flaws.
In reality, DeCSS can do nothing but copy DVD movies. I doubt that many of you have even run the program. If you had you would know that it is a windows program (though, I'm not sure if DeCSS itself had been ported to Linux, of if just css-auth was derived from it by LiViD). DeCSS, or at least they copy I have is a Windows GUI application with only two buttons. One says "Select Folder" and the other says, "Transfer". I've posted my own mirror, if anyone doesn't believe me, they can see for themselves.
The other flaw is a bit deeper, and it comes from a failed technical understanding of what comprises the Movie on a DVD disk. Frequently, and this article as well, I've seen it stated that you can simply copy the data right off the disk with a standard file system read. This is incorrect, you can copy the encrypted data, but there is a fundamental difference between encrypted data and 'regular' data. The DVD movie is an element of pure data. The images and are nothing more then information. When you copy the contents of a DVD with a standard file system read, that is not what you get. Instead what you get is white noise. Worthless garbage. The encrypted data and they key are two halves of a whole, without ether, you do not have a movie.
What DeCSS does is remove the pure data from the physical medium, and into the pure ether of information. What DeCSS does, is copy the MOVIE. In its pure form, unprotected from copying, it can be viewed in Linux, or anywhere with an mpeg2 decompresser. It can also be shrunk down to VCD size and passed around the Internet.
Yes, it is possible to digitize the movie, and get the data that way, but it would require much more hardware then what would be required with DeCSS. Simply dumping the video to the hard drive uncompressed would require a 150 gig hard drive for a two-hour movie. (This hard drive, of course, would be able record at 21.3 megs/second-sustained as well...). Alternatively one could purchase a MPEG encoder card for a few hundred dollars. Along with an external DVD player to plug into
Yes, you of course wouldn't be able to duplicate the DVD image onto a burned DVD, because of the zeroed out pits, but after you merge the two halves to form the movie, it wouldn't be necessary.
Right now a 40gig UDMA hard drive sells for about $350. That's about $40 per movie. And that's bound to get cheaper as the year progresses. Using a data Tape would only cost $10 per movie, and if you really wanted to span 7 CD's the cost would be about $5 per movie. This is hardly what I would call economically unfeasible, and certainly less so then not using DeCSS to copy movies.
I've posted this information to slashdot before, and in several cases, I was ether called a moron or a Troll. I find it amazing that people could be so blind, so steeped in doublethink as to not only believe that DeCSS is can only be used to play movies in Linux, but to outright attack anything that doesn't conform to whatever it is they choose to believe
I've also been told that I shouldn't say what I'm saying, and that by saying it I am weakening our case. But, I cannot deny what I know to be true, and I cannot stand to see these untruths touted as reality.
At least Winston Smith got laid...
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
I can understand why many people fear many things, but that doesn't mean I want to see those things banned.
Hrm... what's your position on cloning?
Anyway, I don't want to see the stuff banned ether. In fact I think what the DVD-CCA is doing is moraly reprehensible.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
without css-auth.h, you know that right?
But it dosn't matter, The program was initaly a windows program. Just beacuse I dissagree with the 'comon knowlage' dosn't mean I'm a troll. I think what the MPAA is trying to is a bad thing, and I hope they fail. But you braindead idiots arn't helping anything
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
Oooh! Nice troll! Except for the minor fact that DeCSS was distributed in *SOURCE* form. Go back to your bosses in Hollywood, Mr. Astroturf.
hrm... The copy of DeCSS I got of signal_11's mirror contains 4 files. a readme, an exe, and two DLLs: one for win9x, and one for win2k. No source here (and its not in the readme, I checked). AFAIK, DeCSS was orgionaly posted as binary, then source (under GPL).
But it dosn't matter. You still can't use a windows program in linux, even if it is in source form, Idiot.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
I don't think DeCSS should die, quite the contrary. However, I don't think that its sole purpose was to aid in the creation of Livid. If it was, why not just make css-auth first?
It just pisses me off that so many uninformed morons are posting here 90% of whom don't even know what DeCSS even does!
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
As I understand it, you can watch that illegally copied DVD with a licensed Windows player which has its own CSS authentication method. Thus, you have successfully pirated a DVD which is perfectly playable, without decrypting anything (until final playback, using DVD Forum approved software).
You mean, you think that you can play a completly encrypted video file, with no keys whatsoever? Windows players use the keys on the Key tracks to decrypt the video. no key tracks, no video. I cant' belive this got marked as informative.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
DeCSS makes it much easier than what? Capturing the video stream, encoding that and sending it out (or recording it onto another medium)? It's hard to imagine it getting much easier than that.
DeCSS: rip video, run throuh compressor
Capturing: Record raw video from your hardwaer Player to your 150 gigabyte High RPM AV hard drive, compress. I don't know many people with 150 gig hard drives. Yes, you could buy a hardware mpeg comperssor, but that would cost a lot of money. A lot more money the DeCSS.
Right now VCD's really the only way to do it, but in a few years, it will be posible to pass VOBs around, without quality loss.
DeCSS doesn't make perfect copies of DVDs feasible, A riped DVD will be a perfict copy, unless you really, really wanted those encryption keys, and 20 second FBI warnings...
Why would someone who didn't copy DVDs before suddenly decide to start just because DeCSS came out?
Beacuse it alows them to do through software what would have cost them at least $1000 in hardware to do (mpeg encoder, standalone DVD player, etc).
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
The 'fact sheet' says that you can copy the data on the DVD to your hard drive, by simply doing 'ls' and then 'cp' to the HD. This is true, however those files will be worthless without the decryption Keys, on the first few tracks of the disk. What is so hard for you people to understand about that?
Sure, you can take the files off, and burn them to a blank DVD, but you'll never be able to Watch that DVD, without DeCSS
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
DeCSS is more like gzip. You extract the data into readable (or in this case, viewable) form. However, in the process you do make a copy. (Witch you can then send around the world, if you chose )
Why do you people insist on saying that DeCSS cannot be used to pirate movies?
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
DeCSS cannot play DVDs, DeCSS has only one function, and that is to copy the Video Data, unencrypted, To a hard drive. It can do nothing else. I have run it, and I know. So, you can scream your mantras as much as you like, you cannot change reality.
DeCSS is for copying DVDs.
Your thinking of css-auth.
*sigh* I do not agree with what the MPAA is doing. But I do not agree with attempting to spread untruth as true.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
hrm... I think this is a troll, but here I go anyway:
Or buy a player (hardware or software decoder) and load the appropriate operating system** to utilize it.
How about downloading a freeware player?
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
It means US Patents aren't enforceable outside the USA
what the hell kind of crack are you smoking? Havn't you heard of international patents?
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
It has been shown again and again that decrypting and copying DVDs for purposes of piracy just isn't feasible right now, and it probably won't be for some time
Huh? Shown by whom? Uninformed slashdot idiots? Its completely feasible! Shrink down to VCD, and send out over dorm Ethernet/Cable/DSL. There's some quality loss, but DeCSS makes it much more easy.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
Watch ten more businessmen leap off the Linux bandwagon over this.
Huh? DeCSS is a windows program, you know that right?
Anyway who cares? I for one am not willing to sacrifice my freedoms to corporations for a little more support for my favorite OS
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
Have you ever tried recording uncompressed hi-res video to a computer? You would need 150 gigs to store a feature length movie, and that's *if* your IO subsystems could take it at all. A $40 Television tuner card is not going to let you rip DVDs, you'd need at least a full hardware MPEG compressor (not cheap).
I know this, I've got a TV tuner card, and I can tell you, it's just not possible to sample a raw movie like that.
With DeCSS, all you need is 9 gigs of hard drive space
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
Get a life. De-CSS is *not* being used to pirate whatsoever
Hah, I almost laughed out loud when I read that. Are you really so dense? The files are being compressed down to VCD, and then ether burned or transferred online. Were you unaware of the existence of dvd-copy.com Take a look, and stop being so unbelievably blind.
No, I do not support the DVD-CCA, but I don't support idiotic doublethink ether.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
The above poster was talking about KM, in responce to a post above.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
Well, they would in effect be suing themselves, since Disney is one of there largest memebers...
(not that I wouldn't put it past them...)
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
I'm sorry, it doesn't follow that people who posess a DVD drive in their computer necessarily even have the slightest interest in playing movies. If they did, they would have:
You may be a troll, but I didn't see a link to this in any of the troll boards, so...
What the hell else are you going to do with a DVD-ROM drive? There are like 3 or 4 DVD-ROM titles out, and those all come on CD-ROMs as well
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
This is the self same company that legally requires players to have built-in incompatibilties between DVD's.
If that were true, how come you can buy region free DVD players?
idiot.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
Well, I think your using the word 'owned' wrong. You have an owner of a copywrite, and you have an owner of the Media. The two uses of the word are non related.
This becomes a problem, though when things loose there physical form, but the distinction is clear. The MPAA still owns the Copywrite, but they do not own the data.
When you buy a car, you are also buying a database detailing what makes up the car. Cars are designed on computers now right? So a car is merely a physical representation of that device. Now, I don't think you would find many people who would say that You can't go an hack apart your Toyota Celica to find out what makes it work (in fact, you can probably order the technical manual that will tell you just that). But you couldn't go out and start building more and selling them as genuine Celicas, that would be a violation of Toyotas copyright.
You own the car; Toyota owns the 'idea' of the Car. You own the DVD data; The MPAA owns the copyright on the movie.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]
Hrm, NBC is owned by General Electric, witch has very little interest in anything other then making sure that GE doesn't look bad (They changed the movie 'atomic train' because GE owns and operates Nuclear Power plants, however Nuclear waste doesn't blow up anyway, so That's probably a good thing...)
I think CBS independent, still. And UPN is owned by Paramount, I don't know if paramount is still Independent.
[ c h a d o k e r e ]