How the hell is this any different from what M$ is doing now. Upgrade treadmill baby. To me this is the big advantage of Linux. I AM OFF THE TREADMILL!!
Yeh, but you don't *have* to upgrade, infact Its probably a good idea not to, since you'll probably need a hardware upgrade for o2k (pathetic, but true). Sure, there might be file format changes, but running linux isn't going to help you with that. People will still be able to read your old.docs, you just won't be able to read theres (wether you're running linux or windows)
With hosted apps, you'll have to pay forever... "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Do you really want the output of you're programs to be forced to be GPL? That would mean that every program you compiled with GCC would be under the GPL, every webpage you made with Emacs you wouldn't own, every graphic you made with the GIMP would be public property. That's a terrible Idea. Also, those 'click to agree' licenses arn't legaly binding.
The GPL alows 'interal propritary versions' of software, so don't sweat it. I'd be willing to bet that most of the extra features will be custom perl/java/VB scripts anyway, and not modifications to GPL software. You'll still be able to get the origional software, so don't worry "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
As for Windows (which is a separate product, despite their current bundling status), it definitely was never the best - or even adequate. Most Mac users, Amiga users, hell - any users - could have told you that.
Well, I don't know about Mac users will say anything bad about MS and its products and PCs in general. no matter how untrue. Maybe you should ask windows users what they thought of the OS, ones who had used both or all three. If you think MS fud is you should see some of the misconceptions Apple was spewing. Mac OS may have had a better UI then win3.1, but I really don't see how you can say that the Mac interface is better then windows 95/98, between the two its a matter of preference.(I don't know much about Amiga's OS)
This is getting a little off topic, but it does have relevance. Microsoft products are stable, at least now. A program error that would, and still would, bring down MacOS would only cause a GPF in windows, closing the application. Oh, and what program caused the most GPFs/system crashes that I've ever seen? yup, Netscape. No matter how good you say it is, that program crashed a lot. IE simply does not. I believe it's crashed on my about 3 times since IE 5 came out a couple months ago. And all I had to do was redouble click on the icon in order to surf again. Netscape always had bad products.
Let me state for the record, that I used to be a Netscape loyalist. I used Netscape for everything except the Microsoft homepage, witch simply would not work in Netscape (you would actually get dead links in one browser and not the other, I'm sure this was MS's fault. but when I needed something off there site I would use IE). The next site I used IE on? ironically slashdot. Netscape would stall for several seconds when displaying the comment pages in nested mode, any time you would resize the window, it would reload the page off the server, and it couldn't find it's place again if you left the page. IE did this. and since I check/. every day IE became my default browser. Like everyone else I'm hoping for great things from mozila, but for now, I'm using IE. (at least in windows)
Btw, I might still be using Netscape it weren't owned by AOL, I don't think there are many people who think AOL is less evil then MS... "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Absolutely amazing - most of this article was contradicting itself. For example - they denied that they were script kiddies and such, and then went on to say they didn't "consider programming to be the focus" of their group.
This is an intresting dicotomy you've drawn. everyone is ether a script kiddie or not in your mind I take it? I'm sure coding is not the focus of Bill Clintons life, does that make him a script kiddie? What about Hether Gram? is she a script kiddie?
Its posible for a group to be more then one thing... for all we know, these guys never hack on machines that arn't there own. Anyway, since these guys have writen at least one tool, they are not script kiddies. a kiddie is someone who uses other's hacks without understanding the technology "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
You wouldn't have to train anyone to use a word processor if the word processor could be abstracted to the (virtual) user picking up a pen and paper and starting to write. Drawing a line under your text is much more intuitive than highlighting the text and clicking Format . . . Underline.
You need to 'train' people to write with a pen already, although it usualy happens in elementary school. Anyway, if a person wanted the exsperiance of using a pen and paper, then they could just use a pen and paper... "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
An idea needs three thigns to take its place on the market. The idea itself, planing and willpower, and money. With out ether one of these peices, nothing can happen. What would have happend if the VCs haddn't invested? Nothing. That's what. sure, they made $700 million, but the others made billions (or somthing). I'm sure that if I was in There postion, I wouldn't mind having a couple billion dolars if it means giving up $700 million. it's better then what I've got now (I think I have like $800 in the bank or somthing) "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Hell, who needs venture capitalists - if it's cool and it runs Linux, you'd probably take in just as much money by putting on banner ads and posting the site here as a news item;-)
not if he needs custom hardware... "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
if you've already given up why not publish you're spcs? I mean, if its so great, why keep it from the world? you could publish as a 'songwriter machine' if that's your name:)
If you're not going to be able to make money from it... "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Well, that probably depends, I really liked having my p75 run run at 1.5 bus speed (on an 83mhz bus:), but Athlons have much more parralelism, and multiple exicution paths, etc. I'd be willing to be they would be more efficent. "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
2) In the particular case of the Palm, my argument is that they should KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid).
well, with the proliferation of Palm OS based products, you'll still be able to find what you want, at what price you want. I belive handspring (founded by the guys that founded palm) will be puting out ultra-simple devices based on the tech (keep in mind that this device is from another company). Other companys will put out stuff that has all the kewl gizmos and buttons for us geeks to play with, each has its place in the market. There are even people willing to mess with there palm's inndards and sauder on more memory. Just beacuse home PC users don't really want to use UNIX as there main os, dosn't mean sun has any trouble selling solaris workstations.
In the particular case of the NC, my argument is that "it'll never last".
Were they ever even here?
The diffrence between a NC and a palm pilot is that NC's don't do anything new, everything you can do with an NC, you can do with a PC as well, it may be better in some respects, but not in others. In order for them to prosper, they need to be radicaly better. PDA's like the palm do somthing that no other type of computer can do, be sliped into your pocket. Palms are simply the best PDAs out there. there will always be people who want them, and there will alway be simple ones (unless, noone wants them...) "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Trying to make Palm devices all things for all people would hurt its momentum.
That's not what I think there going for, I think its more like, all diffrent palms, for all difrent people.
A palm with a hard drive for mp3 players, color screens for people who like color screens, audio IO for people who need audio IO, Linux for Linux hackers, and a palm with every thing for us geeks.
As with the proliferation of PCs, diffrent systems for diffrent people big fat XTs for offices, and Tandies, for the home (Ok, I don't know if those were out at the same time, or even used the same OS, but I was very young at the time...)
With Palm licensing there OS, they are giving the OS a chance to become the defacto palmtop standard. wince blowz, to many companys tried to shove in to much tech (and a bloated OS), at to high a price point. Sure, some people will make palms like this, and they will die (or overtake wince's 25% market share). but with companies like handspring around, there will still be some 'simple, elegant' stuff around to. "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
He seems like an arthouse poseur. He doesn't do a fraction of the research for his books that Neal Stephenson so obviously does, and he makes statements that place him firmly in the category of artists who produce garbage and try to pretend that nobody understands it. His books reek of contrived symbolism.
um... why would you need to do research for a novel? Gibson isn't a geek, Stephenson (who went to my highschool!!!) is. and it shows. While gigabits/second MTOPS may be intresting to us, they arn't for others. and they are hardly nesissary for a good story "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
But I thougth the "3d" aspect In Idoru worked pretty well. I mean, the technology used exsists today depending on how good looking you'd think the display actualy is.
I tended to imagen the 'VR' to be photorealistic, and that couldn't be more then 10 years off. I belive gibson was describing and interface to the infosphear or whatever you want to call it.
The definition of Cyberspace is what's in gibsons books, but I tend to think of it as the human interface, the the 'stuff' itself. a bunch of bits and bytes would make a boring book for a non-geek. "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I guess I'm just a nerd who would rather screw with my computer than watch TV
I guess you'd rather screw on the computer and remain culturaly ignorent for the rest of your life then read a book to. Gibson wrote like one episode of the X-files (and it rocked, btw:)
as tritity said in the Matrix "I know a lot about you, I know why you live alone, and why night after night you sit at your computer". Exsept its not beacuse you're looking for him. it's beacuse you're a looser "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
1) Java is compiled when it's run. If its not, a faster interpreter means faster interpretation.
2) The only thing that IA32 and IA64 have in common is there similar name. IA64 is a radicaly new system based on an EPIC structure. IA32 is a 15 year old 32bit extention (hack?) to the 8086 arcitecture. "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
(and soon silicon-on-insulator: 30% more power at same Mhz).
Well, ether you ment 30% less power for the same clock (electrical power, not computational power), or you really don't know(or understand) what you're talking about. Also, to make a fair comparison, you should look at the top of each line: 700mhz athlon VS 450mhz G4. I'm sure the G4 can beat a pIII, but that's beacuse a pIII sucks. I'm sure a pIII can beat a G3, but that dosn't really matter much.
Also. Next time try spliting you're comments into paragraphs, it makes reading much esayer:) "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Anyone read that yet? I'd be interesting to hear about it.
I checked at waldon books, but they said they wern't going to be gettin it in for another month. Now, I don't know if it's just them that are behind (I doubt they could stay competitive if they didn't get best sellers untill a month after offical relices), but I don't think there are many people who have read it yet...
I really want to read this one after reading Iduro. "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
you keep waiting. while we enjoy our 700mhz athlons. A little heat is a resonable price to pay (IMO). plus the PIII's arn't that hot (athlons are though, arn't they)? "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
actualy, a K6 would be better then a comparable pII/pIII for things like this. Where the pX's beat the k6's is in 3d games. I've only got a p200, and it does multiple things just fine "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Nintendo didn't have any trouble implementing 500mhz rambus memory in the n64 in 1996... "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Peltier's are like $50, wouldn't it be cheaper to just get a new CPU? (somthing like $55 for 300-400mhz) "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Also, our "450 MHz" is shipping. Barely, I know. But it's sure not just numbers on paper.
Yeh, us "PCweenies" are stuck at a lameass 700mhz (800 for supercooled units). Do you really thing a PPC is twice as efficent as comparable pentium? "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Slashdot Mirror
How the hell is this any different from what M$ is doing now. Upgrade treadmill baby. To me this is the big advantage of Linux. I AM OFF THE TREADMILL!!
.docs, you just won't be able to read theres (wether you're running linux or windows)
Yeh, but you don't *have* to upgrade, infact Its probably a good idea not to, since you'll probably need a hardware upgrade for o2k (pathetic, but true). Sure, there might be file format changes, but running linux isn't going to help you with that. People will still be able to read your old
With hosted apps, you'll have to pay forever...
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Do you really want the output of you're programs to be forced to be GPL? That would mean that every program you compiled with GCC would be under the GPL, every webpage you made with Emacs you wouldn't own, every graphic you made with the GIMP would be public property. That's a terrible Idea. Also, those 'click to agree' licenses arn't legaly binding.
The GPL alows 'interal propritary versions' of software, so don't sweat it. I'd be willing to bet that most of the extra features will be custom perl/java/VB scripts anyway, and not modifications to GPL software. You'll still be able to get the origional software, so don't worry
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
As for Windows (which is a separate product, despite their current bundling status), it definitely was never the best - or even adequate. Most Mac users, Amiga users, hell - any users - could have told you that.
/. every day IE became my default browser. Like everyone else I'm hoping for great things from mozila, but for now, I'm using IE. (at least in windows)
Well, I don't know about Mac users will say anything bad about MS and its products and PCs in general. no matter how untrue. Maybe you should ask windows users what they thought of the OS, ones who had used both or all three. If you think MS fud is you should see some of the misconceptions Apple was spewing. Mac OS may have had a better UI then win3.1, but I really don't see how you can say that the Mac interface is better then windows 95/98, between the two its a matter of preference.(I don't know much about Amiga's OS)
This is getting a little off topic, but it does have relevance. Microsoft products are stable, at least now. A program error that would, and still would, bring down MacOS would only cause a GPF in windows, closing the application. Oh, and what program caused the most GPFs/system crashes that I've ever seen? yup, Netscape. No matter how good you say it is, that program crashed a lot. IE simply does not. I believe it's crashed on my about 3 times since IE 5 came out a couple months ago. And all I had to do was redouble click on the icon in order to surf again. Netscape always had bad products.
Let me state for the record, that I used to be a Netscape loyalist. I used Netscape for everything except the Microsoft homepage, witch simply would not work in Netscape (you would actually get dead links in one browser and not the other, I'm sure this was MS's fault. but when I needed something off there site I would use IE). The next site I used IE on? ironically slashdot. Netscape would stall for several seconds when displaying the comment pages in nested mode, any time you would resize the window, it would reload the page off the server, and it couldn't find it's place again if you left the page. IE did this. and since I check
Btw, I might still be using Netscape it weren't owned by AOL, I don't think there are many people who think AOL is less evil then MS...
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Absolutely amazing - most of this article was contradicting itself. For example - they denied that they were script kiddies and such, and then went on to say they didn't "consider programming to be the focus" of their group.
This is an intresting dicotomy you've drawn. everyone is ether a script kiddie or not in your mind I take it? I'm sure coding is not the focus of Bill Clintons life, does that make him a script kiddie? What about Hether Gram? is she a script kiddie?
Its posible for a group to be more then one thing... for all we know, these guys never hack on machines that arn't there own. Anyway, since these guys have writen at least one tool, they are not script kiddies. a kiddie is someone who uses other's hacks without understanding the technology
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
You wouldn't have to train anyone to use a word processor if the word processor could be abstracted to the (virtual) user picking up a pen and paper and starting to write. Drawing a line under your text is much more intuitive than highlighting the text and clicking Format . . . Underline.
You need to 'train' people to write with a pen already, although it usualy happens in elementary school. Anyway, if a person wanted the exsperiance of using a pen and paper, then they could just use a pen and paper...
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
An idea needs three thigns to take its place on the market. The idea itself, planing and willpower, and money. With out ether one of these peices, nothing can happen. What would have happend if the VCs haddn't invested? Nothing. That's what. sure, they made $700 million, but the others made billions (or somthing). I'm sure that if I was in There postion, I wouldn't mind having a couple billion dolars if it means giving up $700 million. it's better then what I've got now (I think I have like $800 in the bank or somthing)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Hell, who needs venture capitalists - if it's cool and it runs Linux, you'd probably take in just as much money by putting on banner ads and posting the site here as a news item ;-)
not if he needs custom hardware...
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
if you've already given up why not publish you're spcs? I mean, if its so great, why keep it from the world? you could publish as a 'songwriter machine' if that's your name:)
If you're not going to be able to make money from it...
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Well, that probably depends, I really liked having my p75 run run at 1.5 bus speed (on an 83mhz bus :), but Athlons have much more parralelism, and multiple exicution paths, etc. I'd be willing to be they would be more efficent.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
2) In the particular case of the Palm, my argument is that they should KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid).
well, with the proliferation of Palm OS based products, you'll still be able to find what you want, at what price you want. I belive handspring (founded by the guys that founded palm) will be puting out ultra-simple devices based on the tech (keep in mind that this device is from another company). Other companys will put out stuff that has all the kewl gizmos and buttons for us geeks to play with, each has its place in the market. There are even people willing to mess with there palm's inndards and sauder on more memory. Just beacuse home PC users don't really want to use UNIX as there main os, dosn't mean sun has any trouble selling solaris workstations.
In the particular case of the NC, my argument is that "it'll never last".
Were they ever even here?
The diffrence between a NC and a palm pilot is that NC's don't do anything new, everything you can do with an NC, you can do with a PC as well, it may be better in some respects, but not in others. In order for them to prosper, they need to be radicaly better. PDA's like the palm do somthing that no other type of computer can do, be sliped into your pocket. Palms are simply the best PDAs out there. there will always be people who want them, and there will alway be simple ones (unless, noone wants them...)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Trying to make Palm devices all things for all people would hurt its momentum.
That's not what I think there going for, I think its more like, all diffrent palms, for all difrent people.
A palm with a hard drive for mp3 players, color screens for people who like color screens, audio IO for people who need audio IO, Linux for Linux hackers, and a palm with every thing for us geeks.
As with the proliferation of PCs, diffrent systems for diffrent people big fat XTs for offices, and Tandies, for the home (Ok, I don't know if those were out at the same time, or even used the same OS, but I was very young at the time...)
With Palm licensing there OS, they are giving the OS a chance to become the defacto palmtop standard. wince blowz, to many companys tried to shove in to much tech (and a bloated OS), at to high a price point. Sure, some people will make palms like this, and they will die (or overtake wince's 25% market share). but with companies like handspring around, there will still be some 'simple, elegant' stuff around to.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
He seems like an arthouse poseur. He doesn't do a fraction of the research for his books that Neal Stephenson so obviously does, and he makes statements that place him firmly in the category of artists who produce garbage and try to pretend that nobody understands it. His books reek of contrived symbolism.
um... why would you need to do research for a novel? Gibson isn't a geek, Stephenson (who went to my highschool!!!) is. and it shows. While gigabits/second MTOPS may be intresting to us, they arn't for others. and they are hardly nesissary for a good story
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
But I thougth the "3d" aspect In Idoru worked pretty well. I mean, the technology used exsists today depending on how good looking you'd think the display actualy is.
I tended to imagen the 'VR' to be photorealistic, and that couldn't be more then 10 years off. I belive gibson was describing and interface to the infosphear or whatever you want to call it.
The definition of Cyberspace is what's in gibsons books, but I tend to think of it as the human interface, the the 'stuff' itself. a bunch of bits and bytes would make a boring book for a non-geek.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I guess I'm just a nerd who would rather screw with my computer than watch TV
:)
I guess you'd rather screw on the computer and remain culturaly ignorent for the rest of your life then read a book to. Gibson wrote like one episode of the X-files (and it rocked, btw
as tritity said in the Matrix "I know a lot about you, I know why you live alone, and why night after night you sit at your computer". Exsept its not beacuse you're looking for him. it's beacuse you're a looser
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
1) Java is compiled when it's run. If its not, a faster interpreter means faster interpretation.
2) The only thing that IA32 and IA64 have in common is there similar name. IA64 is a radicaly new system based on an EPIC structure. IA32 is a 15 year old 32bit extention (hack?) to the 8086 arcitecture.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
(and soon silicon-on-insulator: 30% more power at same Mhz).
:)
Well, ether you ment 30% less power for the same clock (electrical power, not computational power), or you really don't know(or understand) what you're talking about. Also, to make a fair comparison, you should look at the top of each line: 700mhz athlon VS 450mhz G4. I'm sure the G4 can beat a pIII, but that's beacuse a pIII sucks. I'm sure a pIII can beat a G3, but that dosn't really matter much.
Also. Next time try spliting you're comments into paragraphs, it makes reading much esayer
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Anyone read that yet? I'd be interesting to hear about it.
I checked at waldon books, but they said they wern't going to be gettin it in for another month. Now, I don't know if it's just them that are behind (I doubt they could stay competitive if they didn't get best sellers untill a month after offical relices), but I don't think there are many people who have read it yet...
I really want to read this one after reading Iduro.
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Nah I'll wait for a 500 MHz G4 instead ...
you keep waiting. while we enjoy our 700mhz athlons. A little heat is a resonable price to pay (IMO). plus the PIII's arn't that hot (athlons are though, arn't they)?
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
actualy, a K6 would be better then a comparable pII/pIII for things like this. Where the pX's beat the k6's is in 3d games. I've only got a p200, and it does multiple things just fine
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I may have misunderstood you...
anyway, p6 branch perdiction is somthing like 95% correct
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
i don't know if x86 supports branch hints...
It does
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
No, you're not, but the guys behind IA64 are. and they did just that :)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Nintendo didn't have any trouble implementing 500mhz rambus memory in the n64 in 1996...
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Peltier's are like $50, wouldn't it be cheaper to just get a new CPU? (somthing like $55 for 300-400mhz)
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Also, our "450 MHz" is shipping. Barely, I know. But it's sure not just numbers on paper.
Yeh, us "PCweenies" are stuck at a lameass 700mhz (800 for supercooled units). Do you really thing a PPC is twice as efficent as comparable pentium?
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"