yeah i do. but the server is inside a large intranet - who's going to bother? Anyway, the bug causes a reboot, upgrading the kernel is a reboot: so why reboot to prevent a bug from rebooting the machine when the machine hasn't rebooted because of that bug?
and i have 2.2.7-ac compiled on it and ready to go should the machine ever need a reboot. I'll wait a week or three, and if 2.2.11 turns out to be stable i'll compile it and replace the unused 2.2.7-acX.
afaik alpha doesn't have any hardware 32bit support (eg like ia32 and it's 16bit support). it's 64bit addresses all the way.
i guess what MS did was to compile everything with a 32bit address space, and just pad out the rest of the address space in some way.
i don't know the details, but there was a discussion on axp-list about the very same thing: ie how to get apps to run in a 32bit address space on alpha. (eg for netscape which isn't 64bit clean).
afaik alpha doesn't have any hardware 32bit support (eg like ia32 and it's 16bit support). it's 64bit addresses all the way.
i guess what MS did was to compile everything with a 32bit address space, and just pad out the rest of the address space.
i don't know the details, but there was a discussion on axp-list about the very same thing: ie how to get apps to run in a 32bit address space on alpha. (eg for netscape which isn't 64bit clean).
indeed, upgrading kernels for the sake of it is plain stupidity. (anyone upgrade from 2.2.5 or so to 2.2.8 just for the sake of it? see what i mean?)
i have a machine with uptime of ~80days running 2.2.2-ac7. Previous uptime was ~90 days on 2.0.36. The reboot was to upgrade the kernel. And i only did that cause 2.2 had a couple of things i wanted. I tested the new kernel on non esential machines first for a while before upgrading the server.
you don't have to upgrade to every new kernel. In fact doing so is silly on anything else apart from your desktop linux 'play' box.
Re:The X protocol is too slow and chatty
on
Is X The Future?
·
· Score: 2
X is actually a really efficient protocol for what it does. Very sparse.
As for remote apps.. X rules in this dept. I find that nothing can come close to X for performance. Things like pcanywhere, carbon copy, etc. have a noticeable lag. (caveat: every win32 Xserver i've tried is slow.. XFree86 on a 486-33/32MB is a magnitude faster than X on win32 on a P11-450).
With X however is impossible to tell whether apps are remote or not. Also, X is perfectly feasible over 33.6k modems for simple Xt type apps (xterm, etc), and even complex apps if you use lbxproxy.
I once ran Netscape 3.0 from a computer in scotland over the internet displayed to my computer in ireland (connected via 33.6k). Took a heck of a long time to draw (~5min), but from then on it was useable (with a little patience). And that was just plain X. I didn't even compress it with lbxproxy or ssh! Try that with anything else and you will not get anywhere.
As for those who argue that "X needs this, and needs that, And that the fact that they weren't included means it must have beem badly designed": The intention was to provide a basic protocol, which could be easily extended, so it's meant to be like that by design.. want Direct rendering? -> extension. Owant penGL?->extension, DPS.. etc.. by design.
i've looked at the specs, and i can't see anything that differentiates this SGI from other IA32 servers.
eg, 800MB/s memory bandwidth - what happened to the fancy chipset?? Out of band management port: sounds like Compaq's Insight Management board to me. Hot swap everything: whoopie doo - everybody else has that aswell.
$8000 for a 'nothing special' single CPU and measly memory intel server??
Uhmm... I think i'll buy a Proliant or a Poweredge instead. Same specs except those guys have been in the IA32 server market for years and years, and a lot more breadth and experience in global support. And the prices are more reasonable aswell. No premium for the SGI name. (which isn't worth much now that the nice logo is gone).
SGI workstations are really nice though... but you still can't/use/ linux on them.
how in heavens do you expect an OS to prevent memory leaks in apps?
You're right that linux get's in knots when ram+swap is exhausted, but you can prevent that from ever happening by setting limits, check out/etc/security/limits.conf on RH5/6, and set some limits like RSS problem solved.
did you first do the root install with option/net?
and then normal install for each user?
(like it says in the instructions)
I have it installed multi-user here without problems, everything in/usr/local/Office51 and an Office51 directory of 2MB in each users homedir. Even SO3 could do this.
I'll agree with you though that it's in serious need of a diet.
Real sleek black box with a couple of USB ports on the front, and a sleek futuristic monitor to match. If it costs less than £600, then it's worth buying for looks alone.
(and i don't care what CPU it uses!!!)
Also, this transmeta thing could be very real. Eg John Carmack just posted to G200-devel that he was at TransMeta this week discussing about 3D with their engineers, and that Linus *really* wants linux to have good 3D support!! So it sounds to me like transmeta are at a pretty advanced stage. They've been working on it for 2-3 years now, why shouldn't it be ready?
(if you don't believe me check the g200 devel list archive, and no i don't have the url. get of your lazy arse and find it yourself!):)
it's actually a complete 386 on a card. It's operating system agnostic so it'll work fine with linux.
In fact it will work better with linux than with NT as the card can only capture text mode screen's - not much use with NT.. but perfect for linux/*bsd/sco.
How many alternatives? Uhmm... Alpha? For about the same or less money as a P-3 setup you can buy an Alpha 600MHz. Runs NT aswell. For a couple of hundred extra you can have a 667MHz.
Or for the price of an AMD K6-3 you can buy an 21164A 533MHz and clock it to 600MHz...
Have a look at the Compaq GS140. 8 Alpha 21264's on a point-to-point bus EV6 bus...
Compaq are also working on even bigger 64+ CPU Alpha machines with by interconnecting EV6 buses with a switching fabric, ie sets of 8 CPU's interconnected via EV6. And 4/8/16 sets of EV6 busses interconnected...
Switching fabrics are the way forward. Can't wait till technology from OC48 class routers get's used in PC chipsets!
you're sick? I'm sick that no-one listens and keeps buying high-end intel chips. People say that Alpha's are too expensive and yet will still go out and spend money on P-3's, or worse dual P-3's! Seems people still need to be educated as to the choices.
re: your question, some of us aren't/lucky/ enough to live in the US, *grin*, but in britain you can buy a Samsung Alpha 21164A for £149, and a UX board (2MB cache, intg. net+scsi) for £452 from www.compusys.co.uk. All the Samsung 21164A parts (533, 600, 667) are from the same process so the 533 should clock to 600, even 667. If you really want to pay for 600MHz (silly), it costs £480.
So 533MHz + UX = £600 -> $970. same price as a P-3 and cheap motherboard.
600MHz + UX = about £200 more than a P-3 and expensive board.
Prices in the US should be better than in the UK, check out www.alphalinux.org for links to dealers there. Or have a look on Ebay, there's people selling Alpha components there regularly.
it's a 21164A 533MHz part. and it's only clocked to 600MHz.. (remember the:)'s? ), but is very reliable at this speed.
667MHz should be quite possible with another case fan.
your question: 700MHz parts are currently shipping i believe from samsung. but they're probably concentrating on 21264 production.
And to the other people who responded to this post: where is your sense of humour??? Have you ever heard of tongue in cheek? what a bunch of dry-arses... it must be tough living such a sour life, you have my pity.
I had to decide between the TNT and the G200 'bout 2 weeks ago. I bought the G200 cause it had the GLX driver in development, and i figured NVidia's drivers would be a way off..
FSCK!!!!
The worst is that i can't palm the g200 over to one of my other pc's or alpha cause they don't have an agp slot... sh1t.
Anyway, NVidia: Next time i buy a card, it'll be one of yours..
reading all these comments about people overclocking their cruddy c300a's to 450MHz is so sad....
My Alpha runs faster than any overclocked intel at it's normal speed!! Ha! And it overclocks to speeds you intel fools can't even contemplate without liquid nitrogen bath cooling - with just it's standard 12V cpu fan...
700MHz!!!! suck that.. (motherboard goes to 800MHz.. might try it - but i'll need a second fan i think):)
yes, but you can use tar to backup directly to the device. sounds like this guy is creating a tarball on an ext2 filesystem somewhere first.
backup straight to the device!!!
Re:Feature set only omits one thing for me ...
on
AbiWord 0.7 release
·
· Score: 2
abiword is indeed a joy to use.
I had to upgrade my RAM to 64MB for StarOffice4, and to 128MB for StarOffice5. Abiword weighs in at 5MB total with the multi-page document open - a breath of fresh air.
Sure, it's a bit sparse in the feature dept. at the moment, but then who ever uses all those features? I'd rather have a small and fast Word-alike that my mother can use, than the huge bloatware of StarOffice, which even with 128MB still isn't exactly nippy.
The features will be added in time i'm sure. The nice part is that they will built onto a nice lean foundation.
(and i can recompile abiword to run on linux/alpha - something i can't do with StarOffice)
Slashdot Mirror
Where did you get that price from? Yeong Yang quoted me quite a high price, but reffered me to a dealer as they don't sell direct.
But the dealer sold it to me for much less: £130.
(1£= approx 1.5$). Which is a good price considering the size of the case.
Probably the prices you're getting from YY are way higher than actual retail prices.
yeah i do. but the server is inside a large intranet - who's going to bother? Anyway, the bug causes a reboot, upgrading the kernel is a reboot: so why reboot to prevent a bug from rebooting the machine when the machine hasn't rebooted because of that bug?
and i have 2.2.7-ac compiled on it and ready to go should the machine ever need a reboot. I'll wait a week or three, and if 2.2.11 turns out to be stable i'll compile it and replace the unused 2.2.7-acX.
afaik alpha doesn't have any hardware 32bit support (eg like ia32 and it's 16bit support). it's 64bit addresses all the way.
i guess what MS did was to compile everything with a 32bit address space, and just pad out the rest of the address space in some way.
i don't know the details, but there was a discussion on axp-list about the very same thing: ie how to get apps to run in a 32bit address space on alpha. (eg for netscape which isn't 64bit clean).
afaik alpha doesn't have any hardware 32bit support (eg like ia32 and it's 16bit support). it's 64bit addresses all the way.
i guess what MS did was to compile everything with a 32bit address space, and just pad out the rest of the address space.
i don't know the details, but there was a discussion on axp-list about the very same thing: ie how to get apps to run in a 32bit address space on alpha. (eg for netscape which isn't 64bit clean).
It was something like:
... (helsinki??) for the year Linus did his - maybe it's still there.
"Design of a portable Operating System."
Ie: linux.
It was on a page of the title list of graduate papers at the Uni of
I Wonder what grade he got, be interesting to know.
indeed, upgrading kernels for the sake of it is plain stupidity. (anyone upgrade from 2.2.5 or so to 2.2.8 just for the sake of it? see what i mean?)
i have a machine with uptime of ~80days running 2.2.2-ac7. Previous uptime was ~90 days on 2.0.36.
The reboot was to upgrade the kernel. And i only did that cause 2.2 had a couple of things i wanted. I tested the new kernel on non esential machines first for a while before upgrading the server.
you don't have to upgrade to every new kernel. In fact doing so is silly on anything else apart from your desktop linux 'play' box.
X is actually a really efficient protocol for what it does. Very sparse.
As for remote apps.. X rules in this dept. I find that nothing can come close to X for performance. Things like pcanywhere, carbon copy, etc. have a noticeable lag. (caveat: every win32 Xserver i've tried is slow.. XFree86 on a 486-33/32MB is a magnitude faster than X on win32 on a P11-450).
With X however is impossible to tell whether apps are remote or not. Also, X is perfectly feasible over 33.6k modems for simple Xt type apps (xterm, etc), and even complex apps if you use lbxproxy.
I once ran Netscape 3.0 from a computer in scotland over the internet displayed to my computer in ireland (connected via 33.6k). Took a heck of a long time to draw (~5min), but from then on it was useable (with a little patience). And that was just plain X. I didn't even compress it with lbxproxy or ssh! Try that with anything else and you will not get anywhere.
As for those who argue that "X needs this, and needs that, And that the fact that they weren't included means it must have beem badly designed": The intention was to provide a basic protocol, which could be easily extended, so it's meant to be like that by design.. want Direct rendering? -> extension. Owant penGL?->extension, DPS.. etc.. by design.
i've looked at the specs, and i can't see anything that differentiates this SGI from other IA32 servers.
/use/ linux on them.
eg, 800MB/s memory bandwidth - what happened to the fancy chipset?? Out of band management port: sounds like Compaq's Insight Management board to me. Hot swap everything: whoopie doo - everybody else has that aswell.
$8000 for a 'nothing special' single CPU and measly memory intel server??
Uhmm... I think i'll buy a Proliant or a Poweredge instead. Same specs except those guys have been in the IA32 server market for years and years, and a lot more breadth and experience in global support. And the prices are more reasonable aswell. No premium for the SGI name. (which isn't worth much now that the nice logo is gone).
SGI workstations are really nice though... but you still can't
ehmmm.. you're being a bit clueless here i think.
/etc/security/limits.conf on RH5/6, and set some limits like RSS problem solved.
how in heavens do you expect an OS to prevent memory leaks in apps?
You're right that linux get's in knots when ram+swap is exhausted, but you can prevent that from ever happening by setting limits, check out
good admin is the key...
did you first do the root install with option /net?
/usr/local/Office51 and an Office51 directory of 2MB in each users homedir. Even SO3 could do this.
and then normal install for each user?
(like it says in the instructions)
I have it installed multi-user here without problems, everything in
I'll agree with you though that it's in serious need of a diet.
http://www.funtime-world.de/beri cht/woa240799.html
Real sleek black box with a couple of USB ports on the front, and a sleek futuristic monitor to match. If it costs less than £600, then it's worth buying for looks alone.
(and i don't care what CPU it uses!!!)
Also, this transmeta thing could be very real. Eg John Carmack just posted to G200-devel that he was at TransMeta this week discussing about 3D with their engineers, and that Linus *really* wants linux to have good 3D support!! So it sounds to me like transmeta are at a pretty advanced stage. They've been working on it for 2-3 years now, why shouldn't it be ready?
(if you don't believe me check the g200 devel list archive, and no i don't have the url. get of your lazy arse and find it yourself!) :)
Uhmm... like you said {NeXT/Open}Step uses DPS..
and MacOS X is basically the next revision of OpenStep..
So are you saying MacOS X doesn't use DPS?
check out the network block device included with the kernel. You can use it as swap for diskless machines.
-paul.
the insight manager remote access card..
it's actually a complete 386 on a card. It's operating system agnostic so it'll work fine with linux.
In fact it will work better with linux than with NT as the card can only capture text mode screen's - not much use with NT.. but perfect for linux/*bsd/sco.
How many alternatives? Uhmm... Alpha? For about the same or less money as a P-3 setup you can buy an Alpha 600MHz. Runs NT aswell. For a couple of hundred extra you can have a 667MHz.
Or for the price of an AMD K6-3 you can buy an 21164A 533MHz and clock it to 600MHz...
Have a look at the Compaq GS140. 8 Alpha 21264's on a point-to-point bus EV6 bus...
Compaq are also working on even bigger 64+ CPU Alpha machines with by interconnecting EV6 buses with a switching fabric, ie sets of 8 CPU's interconnected via EV6. And 4/8/16 sets of EV6 busses interconnected...
Switching fabrics are the way forward. Can't wait till technology from OC48 class routers get's used in PC chipsets!
you're sick? I'm sick that no-one listens and keeps buying high-end intel chips. People say that Alpha's are too expensive and yet will still go out and spend money on P-3's, or worse dual P-3's! Seems people still need to be educated as to the choices.
/lucky/ enough to live in the US, *grin*, but in britain you can buy a Samsung Alpha 21164A for £149, and a UX board (2MB cache, intg. net+scsi) for £452 from www.compusys.co.uk. All the Samsung 21164A parts (533, 600, 667) are from the same process so the 533 should clock to 600, even 667. If you really want to pay for 600MHz (silly), it costs £480.
re: your question, some of us aren't
So 533MHz + UX = £600 -> $970. same price as a P-3 and cheap motherboard.
600MHz + UX = about £200 more than a P-3 and expensive board.
Prices in the US should be better than in the UK, check out www.alphalinux.org for links to dealers there. Or have a look on Ebay, there's people selling Alpha components there regularly.
-paul.
true, but an NT network needs more admins than a UNIX network. Plus you'll need a much bigger support helpdesk with an NT network.
A solaris shop i know of employs 4 admins for 250+ sun workstations and ~10 servers. The admins are also the user support.
How many admins and, more significantly, how many tech support helpdesk workers would you need for a similar size NT network?
it's a 21164A 533MHz part. and it's only clocked to 600MHz.. (remember the :)'s? ), but is very reliable at this speed.
667MHz should be quite possible with another case fan.
your question: 700MHz parts are currently shipping i believe from samsung. but they're probably concentrating on 21264 production.
And to the other people who responded to this post: where is your sense of humour??? Have you ever heard of tongue in cheek? what a bunch of dry-arses... it must be tough living such a sour life, you have my pity.
what's an ICD? i've seen this bandied about on various hardware sites, but never explained.
/linux/ opengl icd. XFree86 X server GLX plugin maybe?
Whatever it is, i doubt there could be such a thing as a
:)
I had to decide between the TNT and the G200 'bout 2 weeks ago. I bought the G200 cause it had the GLX driver in development, and i figured NVidia's drivers would be a way off..
FSCK!!!!
The worst is that i can't palm the g200 over to one of my other pc's or alpha cause they don't have an agp slot... sh1t.
Anyway, NVidia: Next time i buy a card, it'll be one of yours..
-Paul.
reading all these comments about people overclocking their cruddy c300a's to 450MHz is so sad....
:)
:) please)
My Alpha runs faster than any overclocked intel at it's normal speed!! Ha! And it overclocks to speeds you intel fools can't even contemplate without liquid nitrogen bath cooling - with just it's standard 12V cpu fan...
700MHz!!!! suck that.. (motherboard goes to 800MHz.. might try it - but i'll need a second fan i think)
nya nya nyaaa nyaaa nya!!
(take this post with a dose of
the mouse thing is due to something with gpm.
turn off gpm, restart X and it should work.
yes, but you can use tar to backup directly to the device. sounds like this guy is creating a tarball on an ext2 filesystem somewhere first.
backup straight to the device!!!
abiword is indeed a joy to use.
I had to upgrade my RAM to 64MB for StarOffice4, and to 128MB for StarOffice5. Abiword weighs in at 5MB total with the multi-page document open - a breath of fresh air.
Sure, it's a bit sparse in the feature dept. at the moment, but then who ever uses all those features? I'd rather have a small and fast Word-alike that my mother can use, than the huge bloatware of StarOffice, which even with 128MB still isn't exactly nippy.
The features will be added in time i'm sure. The nice part is that they will built onto a nice lean foundation.
(and i can recompile abiword to run on linux/alpha - something i can't do with StarOffice)